23455 réponses à ce sujet

[alienmicrobiologist2]

The ME3 ending.....where to start?
Tell me please why did I bother importing characters from the previous two installments when the finale remained the same no matter what I did?
Why would I ever bother revisiting the ME universe or downloading any additional adventures for my Commander Shepard when I would be playing it in the full knowledge that the Sword of Damocles is dangling above hid head? You set the outcome, so what if he has a couple of more adventures or meets a prothean along the way?
I can't tell you what to do of course, I am just one man but I am one man who bought three Mass Effect games and contributed to your revenue stream by doing so.
Would it have killed you to include an ending that was not so totally nihilistic?
Please do right by your customers and rectify the error you have made.

[InfektidLogik]

I've seen alot of people angry at this.. come on people SERIOUSLY! it was a great ending to a saga! sorry every game can't be like a MOVIE where the hero lives!  let it end for shepard and let it come back as a new character thousands of years later! i mean what are they going to do?? cryogenically freeze shepard after he/she saves everyone and lives??? He/She DESTROYED THE FREAKING REAPERS FOR GOOD.. THERES NO COMING BACK! Plus if shepard lived it would'nt make any sense to the ending they have now..  Just because you dont like how it finished dont make them change it for your pleasure.. its not going to change anything. shepard is already a dead character either way you look at it so LET IT BE! This isnt halo where the character can pop up out of nowhere from death and be like "HEY EVERYONE IM BACK ALIVE FOR THE 60TH TIME!" like i said let the character die so it can pave the way for something new. Gaming is all about innovation and new ideas Bringing Shepard back will be just like every game out there... I enjoy it how it is originally. change is stupid especially when the game is already finished. LET IT BE!

"Watching people bicker about it is very annoying" 

[helloween7]

I tried replaying ME1. I didn't even make it to the beacon in Eden Prime.

Someone (I think it was Kaidan) said "Geth? they haven't been seen past the Veil in the last 200 years!". I had to shut the game down. It's just... Sigh. :crying:

Modifié par helloween7, 19 avril 2012 - 01:01 .

[Psythorn]

InfektidLogik wrote...

[...]! it was a great ending to a saga! sorry every game can't be like a MOVIE where the hero lives!  [...]
[...] He/She DESTROYED THE FREAKING REAPERS FOR GOOD.. THERES NO COMING BACK! [...]
[...]Gaming is all about innovation and new ideas Bringing Shepard back will be just like every game out there
[...]enjoy it how it is originally. change is stupid especially when the game is already finished. LET IT BE!
Watching people bicker about it is very annoying" [/b]

Ok - I respect your opinion. But please respect mine or that of others. The user of "bicker" and "annoying" already indicating that you are not...

This has nothing to do with "movie ending". In my opnion the the current ending is none of things you list here. It's neither great, it's not innovative.

A sad ending is not making an ending "art" or "great" by default.

A sad ending is just overdone and lame - everyone does this lately. And hell the hero does not even need to die for an ending to be bittersweet (or art) - I don't get why everyone seems to think so lately. That's not artistic integrity - that's just cheap and lazy.

Like
"Hey I want the ending to be art - any ideas ?"
"Let's do it bittersweet - that's always a good idea. Everyone is doing it. Bittersweet is highbrow."
"Hmm ok... and how ?"
"Well - kill the hero in the end - that's what every game is doing lately so this must be the way."

To make it worse the current ending(s) is not even bittersweet it's just  bitter , it feels forced, it has plotholes and I really doubt that "clarification" can fix this. The current ending is so bad executed that it does not feel like closure.
And no - I'm not unable to accept a story to end - I loved Assasins Creed - Revelations ending. The end of Ezios AND Altairs storie and the way it was done felt right and gave closure.
ME3 did not. It was pure letdown.

And I will keep saying that I for one would have loved to have an additional brighter ending (including blue babies) as one possible outcome depening on choices - because that what ME was all about. Choices.

But if I at least get closure with the EC and they manage to ease the feel that this ending is just blatantly forced on me and fix the plotholes - well then I might be satisfied.

However I'm in doubt that clarification will fix this - but Bioware will have it's chance. I will sometimes voice my doubt about the EC to work - but I will wait until I saw/played the EC DLC before I start to complain again.

But right now I'm unable to enjoy it ! Even if I try.

Modifié par Psythorn, 19 avril 2012 - 01:11 .

[InMyOwnImage]

Add a conversation with Harbinger:


Takes place after recovering from Harbinger's beam assault, outside the Beam:

Harbinger: Shepard.
Shepard: Harbinger...
Harbinger: Shepard, your persistence would be considered admirable, were it not so misguided.
(Shepard starts to stand, Harbinger roars and knocks him down)
Harbinger: You are defeated, Shepard. Surrender yourself to us.
Shepard: No...I’ll never surrender!
Harbinger: Even in the face of certain doom, you continue to resist us? We are your destiny, Shepard.
Shepard: I don’t believe our destiny lies with monsters!
Harbinger: You call us monsters? That is simply because you fail to understand the situation.
Shepard: I understand perfectly! Sovereign told me-
Harbinger: Sovereign told you nothing. You were not meant to understand, and so he spoke in nebulous half truths. Our purpose is not beyond your comprehension, but it is beyond your ideals of morality.
Shepard: Then tell me. Let me understand.
Harbinger: You are incapable of understanding.
Shepard: I deserve answers!
Harbinger: You deserve nothing but the fate you were destined.
Shepard: We are not your slaves! We are not livestock to be slaughtered at you whim! Why leave the Mass Relays for us to follow your path if it only leads to this? Why set a course that only inevitably leads to destruction? If this is our destiny, why is it set in stone by you?
Harbinger: We provide the tools, Shepard. We do not set the path. Organics could take whatever path they wish, but it inevitably ends at the same point. That is what we are Shepard. We are the end of a road traveled thousands of times. We are what lies at the end of a path that has been trodden repeatedly since civilizations older than you can comprehend. We only wait at the end of that path. If it were not taken, we would not be necessary.
Shepard: You call yourself a necessity? You are evil!
Harbinger: Then we are a necessary evil, as you would call it. Perhaps the next cycle will take a different path. But it is unlikely. We are eternal, because organics will always make the same mistakes. It is inevitable. As is your fate.
Shepard: **** you!
Harbinger: Farewell, Shepard.
(Harbinger charges his beams. Before he can fire, the Normandy and several Turian ships fly by and blast him. He fires back, and they make another run, Harbinger taking flight to pursue. Shepard limps towards The Beam.)


And, after the TIM/Anderson scene:


(Shepard walks towards the Arm Controls terminal.)
Harbinger: Assuming Control.
(Shepard turns back to look at TIM, who slowly stands, eyes glowing yellow.)
Harbinger: Shepard, what you are about to do will not give you what you seek.
Shepard: If it rids the galaxy of you and your kind, it is exactly what I seek.
Harbinger: What you will do will have far greater ramifications than you realize. If we are gone, all that we created will be gone to.
Shepard: I don’t believe you.
Harbinger: Then that is at your own folly. The universe will suffer more from our absence than from our presence. Without us, there is only chaos in the future.
Shepard: We’ll take our chances. We’ll control our own fates. Fates free of you.
Harbinger: You will not survive this day, Shepard.
Shepard: Then I guess I’ll see you in hell.
(Harbinger/TIM charges forward and grabs Shepard. They begin grappling with each other as they move closer to the drop off.)
Harbinger: You cannot fight destiny! I am eternal! I have been alive longer than you can comprehend! I have seen the rise and fall of the greatest empires the universe has ever seen! I have survived the powers of the universes greatest forces! I will survive this day and every day after it! I will be the harbinger of rebirth for this universe for all time! That is my destiny! This is yours!
(TIM/Harbinger begins strangling Shepard. They continue to struggle until Shepard extends his Omni Blade and rams it into his stomach.)
Shepard: Shut the **** up!
(Shepard turns and throws him off the drop behind him. He then collapses and crawls over to the Arm Controls.)

[Pookieroo]

There were many good moments in the game, moments between friends, my Shep took time to say goodbye and these scene were well done. The end - what can one expect from a universe at war? The end I chose was the end of technology. Let the universe develop and grow and find its own way back to the stars when they have progressed enough to use what they discover with responsibility. I don't think any ending would have felt great - the characters has become one's game world friends. Having boosted the fleet to the max I did expect to see Shep in the ruins, didn't happen though the Normandy escaped with Joker, James and Garrus.

[ichigo2601]

i just want an ending that doesn't have so many plot holes =[ i always thought that the mass effect series must've been co-developed by like scientists or something and it all seemed so believable and i really, really looked forward to future installments before ME3 came out. now i know it's only going to be preqeuls i'm really disappointed that the series will never advance unless the ending is taken into account and a galaxy with half organic/synthetic characters seems stupid and unrealistic. all of the other things don't really bother me i don't mind if everyones ending is pretty similar in fact i thought it would be and when i read the spoilerless reviews i thought considering they said the endings were the same i was really excited because i thought that bioware was gearing up for another game later on in the future which i was seriously looking forward too but then i was just met with the child. sucked. then i saw the indoctrination theory and i thought bioware was the best company in the world ever and they were really clever but then they denied it so i was sad again. hope the extendd cut makes it make sense and actually makes a future for the series because if it were only the destruction or control ending the future of the series could be really interesting.

[Archonsg]

All anyone has to do is see how Dragon Age : Origins handled its endings in regards to a "Bittersweet" end, where our protagonist is sacrificed AND HAVE OPTIONS to a happier ending, to see just how poor ME3's ending is.

Its been about a month since I have completed ME3 and my 2nd run, the one which I stayed true to Liara, is still sitting at around Tuchanka. Just could not bring myself to watch Mordin's sacrifice, watch Liara finally with all her heart say "I love you..." to see it all end because someone's "artistic vision" gives me no other choice.

I'll get any DLC that adds content if it's free, though I don't really see a reason to replay just so to be screwed again. I'll pay, if that is required, to get an "Alternate Endings" DLC pack, just so that the series isn't ruined for me by the current "artistic" vision. But regardless, after watching how smug, how much hubris was exhibited by the PAX panel and the announcement of the EC DLC, I will not pre-order any Bioware game. Nor will I purchase any game from Bioware till I know exactly what I am getting, that is if I still feel like buying.

Modifié par Archonsg, 19 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

[3DandBeyond]

InfektidLogik wrote...

I've seen alot of people angry at this.. come on people SERIOUSLY! it was a great ending to a saga! sorry every game can't be like a MOVIE where the hero lives!  let it end for shepard and let it come back as a new character thousands of years later! i mean what are they going to do?? cryogenically freeze shepard after he/she saves everyone and lives??? He/She DESTROYED THE FREAKING REAPERS FOR GOOD.. THERES NO COMING BACK! Plus if shepard lived it would'nt make any sense to the ending they have now..  Just because you dont like how it finished dont make them change it for your pleasure.. its not going to change anything. shepard is already a dead character either way you look at it so LET IT BE! This isnt halo where the character can pop up out of nowhere from death and be like "HEY EVERYONE IM BACK ALIVE FOR THE 60TH TIME!" like i said let the character die so it can pave the way for something new. Gaming is all about innovation and new ideas Bringing Shepard back will be just like every game out there... I enjoy it how it is originally. change is stupid especially when the game is already finished. LET IT BE!

"Watching people bicker about it is very annoying" 

Please, please, please-anyone that thinks this is all about just a happy ending needs to watch this video-it sums up what the vast majority of displeased fans are talking about.  Actually, I think everyone should watch this video.  It truly brings most all of it together.  At first, when I finished the game, I couldn't quite figure out what bothered me so much.  My initial reaction was just that I felt nothing.  I knew after ending such a series, I should feel something.  The more I thought about it, the more I realized what bothered me.  When I saw this video, it reinforced my feelings on all that I thought was wrong with the ending.



@InfektidLogik, with all due respect you do not know what you are talking about and have obviously not read the posts in this thread.  It isn't all about a happy, sappy ending, but a happy ending is and should be one possibility in a game that is all about Shepard surviving insurmountable odds amidst unbelievable sacrifice.  We want choices to matter as to what end we get-it could be all out sad, everyone dies as a possibility, even a probability, but it could also be that most live, that Shepard lives, that the Love Interest lives and they reunite.  Why the heck not?

Along with our choices mattering we want coherence and adherence to the ME universe the devs and we the fans created in playing the game.  The ending is like from some other story.  It does not fit and the VI kid uses a logic that is not logic.

You have the ultimate right to like the endings, just as we have the ultimate right to explain just what is wrong with them.  They do not make sense.  They totally remove any real choice from Shepard and the player.  They even remove the focus from the reapers and give it all over to this VI kid that was dropped in by space magic along with your infinite ammo pistol.  The endings are extremely similar, so no choice really matters more than another.  Along with all that, you get no story finality, no real ending.  You are not shown the impact these so-called choices have on those that you were trying to save.  You don't get to give that sigh of satisfaction that you did what you could.  You didn't have a choice, really.  It all added up to the same thing.  Even synergy/synthesis ultimately means the destruction of organics.  Even if you can accept that these should be the only choices, the way it plays out is not satisfying.  I don't get to fight the things that scare me the most.  I don't get to have my friends with me, to see Jack's biotic pupils fighting their butts off.  I am alone and focused on some off the wall new character and what he says I need to do.  This is not the game I have been playing.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 19 avril 2012 - 02:01 .

[Kain82]

InfektidLogik wrote...

I've seen alot of people angry at this.. come on people SERIOUSLY! it was a great ending to a saga! sorry every game can't be like a MOVIE where the hero lives!  let it end for shepard and let it come back as a new character thousands of years later! i mean what are they going to do?? cryogenically freeze shepard after he/she saves everyone and lives??? He/She DESTROYED THE FREAKING REAPERS FOR GOOD.. THERES NO COMING BACK! Plus if shepard lived it would'nt make any sense to the ending they have now..  Just because you dont like how it finished dont make them change it for your pleasure.. its not going to change anything. shepard is already a dead character either way you look at it so LET IT BE! This isnt halo where the character can pop up out of nowhere from death and be like "HEY EVERYONE IM BACK ALIVE FOR THE 60TH TIME!" like i said let the character die so it can pave the way for something new. Gaming is all about innovation and new ideas Bringing Shepard back will be just like every game out there... I enjoy it how it is originally. change is stupid especially when the game is already finished. LET IT BE!

"Watching people bicker about it is very annoying" 

Firstly if it's annoying to see us bickering then GTFO and stop reading, since 99% of the people here despise the ending.

Secondly say what you will but the majority will disagree with you cause of the reasons already stated in this thread...which you probably haven't read at all. Over 100 hours of gameplay in this series...we DESERVE a GOOD ending, not to mention the PROMISED muliple endings. Even the Better Business Bureau are saying there is false advertising here regarding the ending, Google it. People aren't even asking to 'change' the ending, but at least give us multiple endings where our decisions throughout the 3 games mean something.

"Gaming is all about innovation and new ideas Bringing Shepard back will be just like every game out there "

The indoctrination theory fits PERFECTLY which doesn't have Shepard killed at all. And thank you for making me laugh hard as well, there is nothing innovative about this current ending. I actually doubt the upcoming FREE extended DLC will fix anything as well... Nice, add further explanation to a crap ending, cause clearly that's what most of the fans want...

Also you mention Halo? I would love to see how the Halo fans would react if there was a similar ending in those games...perhaps Master Cheif gets a decision to sacrifice himself and combine his DNA with the enemy? Or Committing mass genocide wiping out entire civilizations after all the hard work? Outstanding.

Modifié par Kain82, 19 avril 2012 - 02:03 .

[3DandBeyond]

Pookieroo wrote...

There were many good moments in the game, moments between friends, my Shep took time to say goodbye and these scene were well done. The end - what can one expect from a universe at war? The end I chose was the end of technology. Let the universe develop and grow and find its own way back to the stars when they have progressed enough to use what they discover with responsibility. I don't think any ending would have felt great - the characters has become one's game world friends. Having boosted the fleet to the max I did expect to see Shep in the ruins, didn't happen though the Normandy escaped with Joker, James and Garrus.

The problem for me with all this is that after the supposed goodbye phone home scenes, the game starts to play like it's some other game.  My friends don't matter anymore.  And, we are subjected to a lot of "how the heck did that happen/get there?" moments.  We are just expected to forget all that and go with it.  We are then expected to believe that the catalyst (which should be helping to destroy the reapers in order for the crucible to make sense) always controlled the reapers and directed them to destroy advanced organics every 50k years.  The catalyst only created the 3 choices (supposedly) when Shepard made it there. 

Ok, so basically the crucible and catalyst all along only meant the status quo-the destruction of advanced organics.  If Shepard had not made it to the catalyst, then the crucible was just some large black hole of effort that meant nothing because the Catalyst would have the Reapers destroy advanced organics.  Wh......what?!!!!!!  The crucible then relies on the catalyst to change it's own (the catalyst's own) programming to accept a new way, giving Shepard 3 stupid choices.  The crucible seems very trusting because the catalyst controlled the reapers and created this stupid solution to begin with.  Why the hell would it be a given that this stupid catalyst would use real logic just because Shepard got to it?  But wait, oh that's right it ultimately doesn't use any real logic as evidenced by the "created/creator logic" and the choices given to Shepard. 

So, bottom line this new foil to our goals is introduced at the last few minutes of the game (second only to the introduction of  the non-romantic Vega).  And this character was controlling the Reapers all along and is supposed to help me.  Ok, I give up.  I want to know how the Protheans and those that came before that worked on building plans for a Crucible, knew about the Catalyst.  I want to know why if they knew about the Catalyst, they thought it would help if they made the Crucible.  And lastly, I want my freaking pistol to work so I can blast this stupid Catalyst kid to smithereens.  End of reapers.  End of problem.  And if the Citadel is the Catalyst is controlling the reapers, then forget the rest of the story, let me just blow the Citadel to smithereens.  End of reapers.  End of problem.  And Shepard doesn't have to deal with the kid at all.  Put me out of my misery.  Let me use my Thannix Cannons, please.

At the end of this game, my friends don't matter.  My sacrifices don't matter.  All my conversations never mattered.  My choices don't matter.  The rest of my game(s) doesn't matter.  Logic doesn't matter.  Replayability doesn't matter.  The reapers don't even matter.  Nothing matters.  This is exactly what game devs want you to feel at the end of a game, right?

[MtOMajorCat0311]

3DandBeyond wrote...


At the end of this game, my friends don't matter.  My sacrifices don't matter.  All my conversations never mattered.  My choices don't matter.  The rest of my game(s) doesn't matter.  Logic doesn't matter.  Replayability doesn't matter.  The reapers don't even matter.  Nothing matters.  This is exactly what game devs want you to feel at the end of a game, right?

That about sums it up.  Mass Effect 1 is still the gold standard for the genre and the universe, maybe it just should have ended there........The rest of it just seems pointless.

[3DandBeyond]

Ok, I'm giving up on my fish theory and going with a fight within Shepard's subconscious and conscious mind. That Catalyst Kid is fighting against Shepard's id (the chaos within his/her subconscious) and trying to be Shepard's ego (trying to make order out of the chaos of the id and bring unrealistic order), while overcoming Shepard's superego (guilt that seeks to combine the id and ego). The catalyst is a fight within Shepard's mind. The 3 choices are physical (perhaps not reality) manifestations of the mind. The id is Destroy. The ego is I think Control. The superego is Synergy. The id is chaos. The ego is about controlling the chaos, bringing it into reality. The superego is about perfection.

If this is so, the correct choice is always the id/destroy choice.  The normal "order" of things is chaos, because it is that which drives creation and creativity.  It's the impulsive part of the human mentality.  It drives libido, self-preservation, and a host of other impulses.  To ignore the id is to ignore what makes us human.  It is what drives our passions-for love, art, and anything.  The ego tries to organize and balance all that.  And the superego gives us a sense of wrong and right, and often opposes the id.  It tries to control.  Human babies are said to be like id only beings-all is about self-preservation and they are need driven.

It's either that or the highest form of advanced organic in this cycle is fish.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 20 avril 2012 - 01:19 .

[MtOMajorCat0311]

Fish, that's it! It is the fish people (i.e., the Selkath) from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic that are really pulling the strings. I mean, you already have Bastila Shan in the ME Series (disguised as Femshep). Maybe it does all make sense now. Vega is kind of built like a wookie after all.

[Kain82]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, I'm giving up on my fish theory and going with a fight within Shepard's subconscious and conscious mind. That Catalyst Kid is fighting against Shepard's id (the chaos within his/her subconscious) and trying to be Shepard's ego (trying to make order out of the chaos of the id and bring unrealistic order), while overcoming Shepard's superego (guilt that seeks to combine the id and ego). The catalyst is a fight within Shepard's mind. The 3 choices are physical (perhaps not reality) manifestations of the mind. The id is Destroy. The ego is I think Control. The superego is Synergy. The id is chaos. The ego is about controlling the chaos, bringing it into reality. The superego is about perfection.

If this is so, the correct choice is always the id/destroy choice.  The normal "order" of things is chaos, because it is that which drives creation and creativity.  It's the impulsive part of the human mentality.  It drives libido, self-preservation, and a host of other impulses.  To ignore the id is to ignore what makes us human.  It is what drives our passions-for love, art, and anything.  The ego tries to organize and control all that.  And the superego gives us a sense of wrong and right, and often opposes the id.

It's either that or the highest form of advanced organic in this cycle is fish.

Well don't know if you've seen this yet but I highly recommend it. Answers 99% of the questions...if it were true.



Also thanx for the 40 minute link above regarding the reason why the ending was horrid. Perfect Explanations!

Modifié par Kain82, 19 avril 2012 - 03:03 .

[3DandBeyond]

MtOMajorCat0311 wrote...

Fish, that's it! It is the fish people (i.e., the Selkath) from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic that are really pulling the strings. I mean, you already have Bastila Shan in the ME Series (disguised as Femshep). Maybe it does all make sense now. Vega is kind of built like a wookie after all.

I posted this here before.  I always wondered what all the references to fish meant.  Fish pets, shooting fish in a barrel, the krogans wanting fish to eat-looking for them in the lakes of the Citadel/Presidium, the aquarium look out the Citadel's windows (shuttles going by look like fish), and then I came across the info of what the reapers look like.  I knew they looked familiar and thought it was just because they reminded me of the tripods in War of the Worlds, but that's not it.  They look like Cuttlefish (not actually fish, but mollusks).  And Cuttlefish do sometimes eat other Cuttlefish.

I just need to tie it all together in order to have it fit the ending.  All advanced organics could be like fish to the catalyst/reapers.  I don't know.  That reminds me of one of the best scenes from Babylon 5, talking about an ant.


G'Kar: [pointing to a nearby flower] What is this? [upon closer inspection, an insect is visible]
Catherine: An ant.
G'Kar: "Ant"!
Catherine: So much gets shipped up from Earth on commercial transports, it's hard to keep them out.[As Catherine is talking, G'Kar carefully picks up the ant.]
G'Kar: I have just picked it up on the tip of my glove. If I put it down again [replacing the ant on the flower]
and it asks another ant, "What was that?" …how would it explain? There
are things in the universe billions of years older than either of our
races. They are vast, timeless. And if they are aware of us at all, it
is as little more than ants…and we have as much chance of communicating
with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried. And we've learned
we can either stay out from underfoot, or be stepped on.
Catherine: That's it? That's all you know?
G'Kar: Yes. They are a mystery. And I am both terrified and
reassured to know that there are still wonders in the universe…that we
have not yet explained everything. Whatever they are, Ms. Sakai, they
walk near Sigma 957. They must walk there alone.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 19 avril 2012 - 03:05 .

[3DandBeyond]

Kain82 wrote...

Well don't know if you've seen this yet but I highly recommend it. Answers 99% of the questions...if it were true.



Also thanx for the 40 minute link above regarding the reason why the ending was horrid. Perfect Explanations!

I think there is something very compelling about this-the indoctrination theory.  A lot of people (myself included) just go ugh when they hear it-it means the end was a non-end.  But, that can be good or bad.  If you go with the IT, and then follow up with the id, ego, superego explanation of the 3 choices it does make some sense.  The separation of 1 clear choice into 3 less that satisfactory muddied choices could be Shepard's brain trying to fight Indoctrination-the last fight, if you will.  Or, it could be the Catalyst attempting to divide Shepard's mind into 3 choices that suck, but directing him/her toward the solution the Catalyst would prefer.  That is, if the Catalyst really exists and is not merely a manifestation of Shepard's mind-using the kid's image to help bring some cohesiveness to his/her dissemblance. 

It's literally like Shepard's brain is falling apart.  S/he leaves all that is known and makes sense.  S/he even shoots Anderson, a father figure (the created/creator?).  S/he bleeds for Anderson.  At every turn, reality slips away until at last s/he faces the self, the VI kid and his/her mind split into 3 pieces.  The Joker running away sequence with some friends ending up on some idyllic planet may only be some endorphine effect created when Shepard made the decision-a hallucination based on wishes and euphoria from giving into one part of the mind.  I don't see it as a real sequence at all.  I can't because it makes no sense.

Indoctrination changes the mind.  Shepard is apparently able to resist more than most.  So, it could make some sense that in the end Shepard faces his/her own mind.

Thanks for the link.  Sorry I am getting way off track here, but my mind is still trying to make sense of it all.

[LiarasShield]

again I can handle a sad ending or a cliff hanger that makes sense doesnt leave gaping plot holes and breaks characters that make them do stuff they would never do nor the ai child saying the created will always rebel against the creators because the geth don't want to fight the qurians hell they are even working with them to rebuild rannoch and the reapers keep following the catalyst orders and ideals and they haven't rebeled against him this logic is wrong and shepard never giving up or always looking for a way is how shepard has always been for him or her to become a complete zombie that just gives into the submission without fighting back is out of shepards character and something that shepard would never do just like the crew that stayed and fought with on the collector base just like the crew that helped you bring down soverign who even fought by your side during most of mass effect 3 it is impossiable to believe or to accept that during the most important battle they would just flee and leave shepard and the rest of the fleets to die or rot in the sol system I'm sorry that isn't possiable because the way their characters have been established makes that whole scene nonsense and the rest of the crew or even your love interest would at least fight with joker over leaving or raise a fuss about it not just flat out leave like shepard never existed that is complete and other nonsense I can handle a ending if all the characters remain true to themselves and I can handle a ending that is sad the normandy could be destroyed or stranded in the sol system but they would've stayed true to their character and not have created this broken character plot hole because in all your adventures in the last 2 me games have already established that they would fight with you till the bitter end and hell if shepard dies from the explosion or takes one last breath and either lives or dies but keep the normandy with the rest of the fleets and have them be dead or stranded it would've made sense and be perfectly acceptable while being a bittersweet ending if that is what they were going for

Modifié par LiarasShield, 19 avril 2012 - 03:55 .

[Archonsg]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, I'm giving up on my fish theory and going with a fight within Shepard's subconscious and conscious mind. That Catalyst Kid is fighting against Shepard's id (the chaos within his/her subconscious) and trying to be Shepard's ego (trying to make order out of the chaos of the id and bring unrealistic order), while overcoming Shepard's superego (guilt that seeks to combine the id and ego). The catalyst is a fight within Shepard's mind. The 3 choices are physical (perhaps not reality) manifestations of the mind. The id is Destroy. The ego is I think Control. The superego is Synergy. The id is chaos. The ego is about controlling the chaos, bringing it into reality. The superego is about perfection.

If this is so, the correct choice is always the id/destroy choice.  The normal "order" of things is chaos, because it is that which drives creation and creativity.  It's the impulsive part of the human mentality.  It drives libido, self-preservation, and a host of other impulses.  To ignore the id is to ignore what makes us human.  It is what drives our passions-for love, art, and anything.  The ego tries to organize and control all that.  And the superego gives us a sense of wrong and right, and often opposes the id.  Human babies are said to be like id only beings-all is about self-preservation and they are need driven.

It's either that or the highest form of advanced organic in this cycle is fish.

The flaw here is, I have said this before and will probably keep saying it till people understand, is, WHY ARE YOU ACCEPTING a choice, ANY CHOICE, given to you by an entity that claims to be controlling the Reapers? Who is STILL controlling the Reapers and is STILL killing everyone across the galaxy.

The "right" choice would have been total rejection to anything this entity says because, lets face it. If it is truly in control it could stop the Reapers any time it wants. It does not need your death to do so.

To some up, accepting ANY choice, red, green or blue is not the answer and there should have been a "yellow" button interrupt to tell the kid to screw off, we organics have the right to make choices for ourselves, that we reject your circular logic trap nonsense and that even if we loose, its a OUR choice, not three arbitrary choices that don't even make sense in how or why they should work.


 
(edited. Posting from phone so please excuse formatting, spelling or other errors)

Modifié par Archonsg, 19 avril 2012 - 04:05 .

[LiarasShield]

broken characters and broken logic are things I can't accept

[LiarasShield]

sad ending or happy ending broken logic is broken logic

[EugeneBi]

MtOMajorCat0311 wrote...

Fish, that's it! It is the fish people (i.e., the Selkath) from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic that are really pulling the strings. I mean, you already have Bastila Shan in the ME Series (disguised as Femshep). Maybe it does all make sense now. Vega is kind of built like a wookie after all.

Yes, it would be a much better ending with much less WTF-effect if Crucible opened up a portal and Revan showed up with his buddies and finished off the reapers. Everybody knows that reaper armor would not stand a hit from lightsaber.

[sdinc009]

InfektidLogik wrote...

I've seen alot of people angry at this.. come on people SERIOUSLY! it was a great ending to a saga! sorry every game can't be like a MOVIE where the hero lives!  let it end for shepard and let it come back as a new character thousands of years later! i mean what are they going to do?? cryogenically freeze shepard after he/she saves everyone and lives??? He/She DESTROYED THE FREAKING REAPERS FOR GOOD.. THERES NO COMING BACK! Plus if shepard lived it would'nt make any sense to the ending they have now..  Just because you dont like how it finished dont make them change it for your pleasure.. its not going to change anything. shepard is already a dead character either way you look at it so LET IT BE! This isnt halo where the character can pop up out of nowhere from death and be like "HEY EVERYONE IM BACK ALIVE FOR THE 60TH TIME!" like i said let the character die so it can pave the way for something new. Gaming is all about innovation and new ideas Bringing Shepard back will be just like every game out there... I enjoy it how it is originally. change is stupid especially when the game is already finished. LET IT BE!

"Watching people bicker about it is very annoying" 

You've clearly got your head up your ass. For 1, did you play ME 2!? The game starts out with Shepard dieing and then coming back!!! So that alone dissolves 90% of your entire post. Plus, as stated many times, it is not the fact that there's no happy ending that is causing people to be angry. It is non sensical ending, the poor writing, and the entire breakdown of narative coherence that has people up in arms. Dropping a Deus Ex Machina into the final scene is lazy and devalues the entire story established throughout all 3 games, Numerous plot holes leave everyone scratching there heads and shouts "WTF just happened? That makes no sense!" And if you want to talk about new ideas and innovation then it might help to actually do that. The ending of ME3 is the ending to Eidos Interactives game Deus Ex released in 2000. Stripping down another games ending and slapping it onto this one is not art or innovative. If this want s to be considered art then fine, but it is commercial art that has an audience that pays for a product. If that product is not of sufficient quality the that audience is well within their rights to complain. This is not new! Sir Arthor Conan Doyle killed off Sherlocke Holmes, the audience did not like this so he brought him back to life. Both Motzart and Shakespeare rewrote their works due to negative audience feddback. And did youhappen to play Fallout 3? A much smaller fan response than this one had Bethesda make the Broken Steel DLC that changed the ending of that game. So why is it so unreasonable for Bioware to fix this. ANSWER: IT'S NOT!

[Archonsg]

EugeneBi wrote...

MtOMajorCat0311 wrote...

Fish, that's it! It is the fish people (i.e., the Selkath) from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic that are really pulling the strings. I mean, you already have Bastila Shan in the ME Series (disguised as Femshep). Maybe it does all make sense now. Vega is kind of built like a wookie after all.

Yes, it would be a much better ending with much less WTF-effect if Crucible opened up a portal and Revan showed up with his buddies and finished off the reapers. Everybody knows that reaper armor would not stand a hit from lightsaber.

Revan's dead, ate my light saber and my wife's force lightning. Well, my other wife put some blaster bolts into his head for good measure, but Vette's like that. ^_~

Still would be a better ending then the current one, just as silly, illogical and definitely inconsistent to the Mass Effect universe, but better.

Modifié par Archonsg, 19 avril 2012 - 04:24 .