23455 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...



The flaw here is, I have said this before and will probably keep saying it till people understand, is, WHY ARE YOU ACCEPTING a choice, ANY CHOICE, given to you by an entity that claims to be controlling the Reapers? Who is STILL controlling the Reapers and is STILL killing everyone across the galaxy.

The "right" choice would have been total rejection to anything this entity says because, lets face it. If it is truly in control it could stop the Reapers any time it wants. It does not need your death to do so.

To some up, accepting ANY choice, red, green or blue is not the answer and there should have been a "yellow" button interrupt to tell the kid to screw off, we organics have the right to make choices for ourselves, that we reject your circular logic trap nonsense and that even if we loose, its a OUR choice, not three arbitrary choices that don't even make sense in how or why they should work.


 
(edited. Posting from phone so please excuse formatting, spelling or other errors)

Oh, I absolutely agree with you.  I've said this that with my Shepard it almost makes more sense for there to be no choices because she'd walk in with her amazing infinite ammo pistol and blow the star kid's VI all to hell.  She'd use her best Jack imitation and tell the kid to f... off.  Her humanity would be served as a bullet sandwich to the Catalyst's lack of brains.  The fact that we are given some measly choices at the end totally denies all the choices, the personality, the drive we have given to our Shepards along the way.  There'd be no choice for mine-it would always be to destroy the reapers.  No question, no hesitation.  I wouldn't go through all that crap to allow them to exist, even if they were controlled, so that someone's blue babies could look out the window and see one of the Sovereign class Reapers picking daisies in a nearby field.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 19 avril 2012 - 04:27 .

[MrMaturdayNight]

I can just about live with 'Sophie's choice' style decision at the end, even if the ramifications were poorly explained, and worse poorly demonstrated in the closing scenes. What I find more disappointing is the almost complete abandonment of storytelling by the end. There's no explanation for certain scenes and we're left (or even encouraged?) to speculate about what it all means. Mass Effect set a benchmark for narrative in gaming, which makes the decision to throw in this ambiguous mess at the end all the more unsatisfying. I'm hesitant to call certain moments 'plot holes' (the Normandy crash and some of the team who were with Shepard on earth emerging for example) as there are presumably some unseen story elements that connect the dots. It's the bewildering omission of these scenes though that leave the endings feeling completely abstract and out of place with the rest of an otherwise outstanding game.

[sdinc009]

Sir Arthor Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes)
Charles Dickens (The Old Curiosity Shop)
F Scott Fitzgerald (Tender Is the Night)
Ridley Scott (Blade Runner)
All changed their masterpieces after receiving negative feedback from their fanbase and/or critics. Would anyone at Bioware say these masters of their craft sacrificed artistic integrity? Or do the writers at Bioware think they are better then the artists I listed above? Artistic Integrity, you argument is invalid. Oh wait I forgot one:
Bioware (Mass Effect: Deception)

[JabberJim]

Art... Schmart

Years invested in this franchise, and characters. Sorry, but I wanted a movie like ending. The hole damn series has been movie like epic. I wanted the ability of making the choices to direct Shepard to an ultimate end to the reapers. For years it felt like it was setting us up for a huge final confrontation with a satisfying, explosive ending. If that happened and Shepard still died doing it, I would be fine with that. I didn't completely hate the ending, but it was a HUGE disappointment.

[3DandBeyond]

Metopholus wrote...

Bioware isn't going to change the ending. fans can wish all they want but it's not going to matter. all they're going to get is a slightly fleshed out version of the existing ending. it's not what they want but all they're going to get. anyone expecting more than that is fooling themselves.

not saying i liked or disliked the ending. i've just accepted reality.

You are probably right, but it's not reality until it's real.  Good business sense is just that and ignoring fans is not such good business sense.  None of us truly knows if this is the ending that they intended.  In fact, the blue screen that comes up after the credits and stargazer scene (or just after the credits) and statements made about the game, indicate that this was not the ending at all. 

My evidence is that so far MP DLC has been free-you don't get too much additional revenue from free.
The blue screen said (paraphrasing here) there was more to come in the ME3 DLC.  The player could continue with DLC or MP.  Paid for single player DLC makes a lot of sense (but in light of the hate for the current ending not so much) and continues the ME3 universe.
EA/Bioware said that ME3 was the end of Shepard's story, but indicated (always said this) that there would be more DLC in the ME3 universe.
The stargazer/Shepard breathes ending-number one and two issues that point out that Bioware never considered the end as it is to be the end.  Just one more story.
Statements made by Casey Hudson (I think it was CH) prior to the game's release indicating an Indoctrination or hallucination type ending as what was originally planned.  He backed off from that, saying that it would not be part of gameplay.  But he never ruled it out as part of any epilog story line-in fairness, he only said it would not be part of gameplay.  Make of that what you will.  I could extrapolate from this that we could get cutscenes that show Shepard made the "right" choice and wakes up from Indoctrination.  You have no decisions to make so you are not involved in gameplay.  You watch what happens next and at some point when Shepard has recovered s/he returns to your control.  I'm not saying this will happen and I do sooooo doubt it, but just pointing out that none of us knows what was intended for that originally planned DLC or that this was even ever planned as the ultimate ending to Shepard's story.

[Phillips94]

do you know what makes great art? not having to further explain or 'clarify' it to the people viewing it

[3DandBeyond]

MrMaturdayNight wrote...

I can just about live with 'Sophie's choice' style decision at the end, even if the ramifications were poorly explained, and worse poorly demonstrated in the closing scenes. What I find more disappointing is the almost complete abandonment of storytelling by the end. There's no explanation for certain scenes and we're left (or even encouraged?) to speculate about what it all means. Mass Effect set a benchmark for narrative in gaming, which makes the decision to throw in this ambiguous mess at the end all the more unsatisfying. I'm hesitant to call certain moments 'plot holes' (the Normandy crash and some of the team who were with Shepard on earth emerging for example) as there are presumably some unseen story elements that connect the dots. It's the bewildering omission of these scenes though that leave the endings feeling completely abstract and out of place with the rest of an otherwise outstanding game.

You see that's the problem, we are left with a void.  We are told by those that just love the ending, that we don't "get" it, when there's nothing there to "get".  There's no there there.  So, the theories that are a little bit out there (not really so far-fetched in the context of this game and the evidence presented) are grabbed onto like a life preserver.  If it isn't a dream or indoctrination or a hallucination, then just what the heck is it? 

Phillips94 wrote...

do you know what makes great art? not having to further explain or 'clarify' it to the people viewing it

That's it.  Art is really a feeling.  You can't explain feelings, they often just are.  The end to ME3 has none.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 19 avril 2012 - 04:51 .

[CountDrunku]

I do not know what the topic currently is at the moment, it is very hard to follow XD
And I know somebody has already stated this, or at least I hope :3

Riddle Me This:
Why was there so much emphasis placed on chatting with all your squadmates before assaulting the beam - even as to go as far as having a guy setup to communicate with all your squadmates - the people you care about - some people care about XD - but . . .
Hardly any emphasis was place on your squadmates after the big choice that effects everyone? O.o

What the hell happened lol XD
And why the flash back to certain people?
Every person was needed to complete this journey lol XD
Without Tali, we couldn't even start this journey back when fighting Saren!

It is really weird. No matter how much character you put into your Shepard, there was still a specific character Shepard played. To me, the ending completely throws out the Shepard started in Mass Effect 1 and added to in Mass Effect 2.

I have some reasons why I didn't like how the story played out. Certain spotlights placed on certain characters and certain characters who did have a spotlight in previous games, had little to do with anything. The biggest spotlight was the kid, blinding my eyes of everything I came to love ( Harbinger lol XD and the reapers! great villain! )

Stupid analogy, I know. Anyway,
Shepard didn't feel like Shepard at the end of Mass Effect 3, if that makes any sense whatsoever.
The ending was streamlined, made perfect sense in Mass Effect 3, but gave little connection to other games, for me. The ending. Not the journey, ending. The answer to questions spanning over the whole series. Why do I even care about synthetic versus organics? Technically, I do but realistically, I don't lol XD It was galaxy vs reapers. I wish I still believe that lol XD. Some people say, that's life, somethings don't matter.

And I say, bull crap lol XD I have a spaceship and alien companions! And I am fighting giant squid robots! If you believe the ending of mass effect was fine, you liked it, then . . .
I am so jealous of you lol. It totally ruined me. I do not know if BioWare cares about me and myself.
I do know, currently, BioWare has lost me as a consumer.

And the extended free dlc, I swear, if everyone jumps through the relays just before they explode cause of shepards choice, in case the relays somehow get destroyed, that is complete bull XD
Anderson said no retreat on the ground. I believe the same worked in space - if the battle is lost, everyone looses. Just like the battle with the quarians and geth, they didn't just STOP FIRIING. Even if there is a time frame of the giant blast and the release of energy toward the relays, don't you think the crew of the normandy would be like, let's go get shepard?

Wait! His life signs, they are fading . . . there is no life signs! WE GOTTA MOVE?! Get to the relay lol XD.

[darkway1]

MrMaturdayNight wrote...

I can just about live with 'Sophie's choice' style decision at the end, even if the ramifications were poorly explained, and worse poorly demonstrated in the closing scenes. What I find more disappointing is the almost complete abandonment of storytelling by the end. There's no explanation for certain scenes and we're left (or even encouraged?) to speculate about what it all means. Mass Effect set a benchmark for narrative in gaming, which makes the decision to throw in this ambiguous mess at the end all the more unsatisfying. I'm hesitant to call certain moments 'plot holes' (the Normandy crash and some of the team who were with Shepard on earth emerging for example) as there are presumably some unseen story elements that connect the dots. It's the bewildering omission of these scenes though that leave the endings feeling completely abstract and out of place with the rest of an otherwise outstanding game.

Perfectly put.....it's the same questions I keep asking.....why....why is the end so detached from the rest of the game,so void of basic sense.........Bioware knows the end is poor,hence the free DLC........so why,why,why was the game released in it's current state.

[Benchpress610]

Player control or lack thereof: that’s the main hurt that has remained in mi mind.  
 
A month after finishing the game and reading opinions in this forum and others, after watching countless arguments back and forth on this whole mess, after simmering down all the reasons why we feel what we feel, one fact stands above everything else: the lack of player control. If I can point out a single flaw in the ending, that would be it.
 
If we forget about all the well documented problems with the ending (plot wholes, etc., etc….), the main reason most of us feel unsatisfied with the way the game ended is that all of the sudden the writers-developers took away from us that little device that makes a videogame a videogame: player control.
 
The most painful memory from the game is that I (Shepard) killed Anderson. There is no way around it. If we take those scenes as face value, Shepard pointed his gun at Anderson and pulled the trigger. We can argue until we blue in the face that Shepard was under the control of the Reapers when he did that, and that is an entirely different discussion, but here is the thing: I most certainly DID NOT press the mouse left button. The game did it for me. I had to passively watch how my Shepard raised his gun and shot a friend who I would’ve defended with my life.
 
Besides a few dialog options with TIM, we have very little input in the game, from the moment we shut Marauder Shields until the end.

Modifié par Benchpress610, 19 avril 2012 - 07:05 .

[darkway1]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Player control or lack thereof: that’s the main hurt that has remained in mi mind.  
 
A month after finishing the game and reading opinions in this forum and others, after watching countless arguments back and forth on this whole mess, after simmering down all the reasons why we feel what we feel, one fact stands above everything else: the lack of player control. If I can point out a single flaw in the ending, that would be it.
 
If we forget about all the well documented problems with the ending (plot wholes, etc., etc….), the main reason most of us feel unsatisfied with the way the game ended is that all of the sudden the writers-developers took away from us that little device that makes a videogame a videogame: player control.
 
The most painful memory from the game is that I (Shepard) killed Anderson. There is no way around it. If we take those scenes as face value, Shepard pointed his gun at Anderson and pulled the trigger. We can argue until we blue in the face that Shepard was under the control of the Reapers when he did that, and that is an entirely different discussion, but here is the thing: I most certainly DID NOT press the mouse left button. The game did it for me. I had to passively watch how my Shepard raised his gun and shot a friend that I would’ve defended with my life.
 
Besides a few dialog options with TIM, we have very little input in the game, from the moment we shut Marauder Shields until the end.

Be honest....TIM needs a better ending.

[zarnk567]

sdinc009 wrote...

Sir Arthor Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes)
Charles Dickens (The Old Curiosity Shop)
F Scott Fitzgerald (Tender Is the Night)
Ridley Scott (Blade Runner)
All changed their masterpieces after receiving negative feedback from their fanbase and/or critics. Would anyone at Bioware say these masters of their craft sacrificed artistic integrity? Or do the writers at Bioware think they are better then the artists I listed above? Artistic Integrity, you argument is invalid. Oh wait I forgot one:
Bioware (Mass Effect: Deception)

Dont' forget Hideo Kojima (MGS series) changing the MGS4 ending.,after his writing staff read it and said it was too dark and depressing for an already sad and dark story. Kojima's orginal ending had Solid Snake and Otacon put to death by the United States as traitors for their "war crimes" in MGS2.
After seeing his writing staff's reaction and thinking about fan reaction Kojima changed it, I repected the man before that and I repected him even more for not letting his ego and pride get in the way of writing a great game ending.

Modifié par zarnk567, 19 avril 2012 - 06:12 .

[hopeisreal]

Can i just put my 5 cents in here....

I don't think you should change your ending...or even add to it.

It is what it is. I thought the ending was a complete joke, lazy and lacked effort...but I can't force you as writers to change it.

cheers

[George Costanza]

It's literally incredible to me that there was no 'tell the kid to **** off' option.

My Shepard kicked a mercenary, "This is Sparta!"-style out of a skyscrapers window for not telling him what he wanted to hear. He made a race almost extinct to slow down the Reapers entry into the galaxy. He rode the relay into the Collector base facing almost certain death and strolled back out the victor like a boss.

And now I'm supposed to believe that some ridiculous deus ex machina space boy turns up and tells him to pick a card and he just plays along? No questions, no arguments... he doesn't even flip him off before he chooses. He just plays along like a good little boy.

It totally takes me out of the moment, and it's a major part of why everything that happens after the Harbinger laser blast feels like it's just been tacked on, like a baseball cap on a statue of Lord Horatio Nelson.

The choices are absolutely ridiculous anyway. Cartoon level ridiculous. And they really don't fit with the Mass Effect universe. The Synthesis option is beyond stupid. But the others aren't much better. Surely, with these ridiculous choices on offer, there should be an option to argue it. I don't care if refusing to play by the rules mean the Reapers win and every character I love is brutally killed. At least I'll know that MY Shepard made the choice that I know he'd make.

Modifié par George Costanza, 19 avril 2012 - 06:10 .

[Kunari801]

Abreu Road wrote...

You know why most people played and loved Mass Effect?

Characters. Tali, Garrus, Wrex and so many others. What we got in the ending? Everyone you care about is dead or stranded on Sol System or Jungle Planet. The lack of closure for the most important part of the Mass Effect universe, it's characters, is an insult.

^- That! As Mordin said in his speech before curing the genophage. The galaxy is too big to personalize, so you need a scale we can relate to. For Mordin it was his nephew, but for my Shepard it's my "Family" and that's my crew and my friends.

For me it wasn't so much if my Shepard lived or not, I was willing to sacrifice to save my "Family" it's just none of the endings (as is) gives me that feeling.  

As much as I'd like to tell the kid to ****-off, it's the closure I want now more than fixing the brats illogical reasoning. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 19 avril 2012 - 06:09 .

[Tyrael02]

sdinc009 wrote...

Sir Arthor Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes)
Charles Dickens (The Old Curiosity Shop)
F Scott Fitzgerald (Tender Is the Night)
Ridley Scott (Blade Runner)
All changed their masterpieces after receiving negative feedback from their fanbase and/or critics. Would anyone at Bioware say these masters of their craft sacrificed artistic integrity? Or do the writers at Bioware think they are better then the artists I listed above? Artistic Integrity, you argument is invalid. Oh wait I forgot one:
Bioware (Mass Effect: Deception)

This. I Hope BioWare sees this one.

[Benchpress610]

darkway1 wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Player control or lack thereof: that’s the main hurt that has remained in mi mind.  
 
A month after finishing the game and reading opinions in this forum and others, after watching countless arguments back and forth on this whole mess, after simmering down all the reasons why we feel what we feel, one fact stands above everything else: the lack of player control. If I can point out a single flaw in the ending, that would be it.
 
If we forget about all the well documented problems with the ending (plot wholes, etc., etc….), the main reason most of us feel unsatisfied with the way the game ended is that all of the sudden the writers-developers took away from us that little device that makes a videogame a videogame: player control.
 
The most painful memory from the game is that I (Shepard) killed Anderson. There is no way around it. If we take those scenes as face value, Shepard pointed his gun at Anderson and pulled the trigger. We can argue until we blue in the face that Shepard was under the control of the Reapers when he did that, and that is an entirely different discussion, but here is the thing: I most certainly DID NOT press the mouse left button. The game did it for me. I had to passively watch how my Shepard raised his gun and shot a friend that I would’ve defended with my life.
 
Besides a few dialog options with TIM, we have very little input in the game, from the moment we shut Marauder Shields until the end.

Be honest....TIM needs a better ending.

Everyone deserves a better ending, but that wan't the point of my post.

[spyro396]

Ennding sucked. They should know that.

[LiarasShield]

I think so many plot holes wether from characters going off the deep end to star childs illogical logic stems from the simple fact that they only had 2 writers working on the ending while all the writers came together to work on the rest of the game and it shows in the rest of the game that is was a great colabartive team effort and it shows everything leading up to the ending that many writers worked and put together worked and was great and even probably got reviewed before being final but the ending only had 2 writers and the fan base and others were left out of the conversation and the endings that the 2 writers put together didn't get any personal review

[LiarasShield]

what I have been hearing from other people is that thee extended dlc is suppose to have all the writers working on it this time instead of just casey hudson and mac walter

[LiarasShield]

hopefully this will bring about a better result then the catastrophe that was put together.....

[Archonsg]

LiarasShield wrote...

what I have been hearing from other people is that thee extended dlc is suppose to have all the writers working on it this time instead of just casey hudson and mac walter

Who would probably go "W.T.F. are supposed to do with this?!!"

They'd proably wanted to re-write and just drop the whole star-child thing, keep it simple; Crucible requires the catalyst, which is the Citadel, battle for control within citadel to get to control room, ends with boss fight against TIM, and cut scene with Battle with Harbinger and Victory Armada. How well Armada and ground forces do depends on EMS and companion deployment.

But nooooooooo..."Artistic Integrity."

Modifié par Archonsg, 19 avril 2012 - 07:32 .

[LiarasShield]

I mean these endings are so bad that it even destroys the lore and the creativeness of their previous mass effect games why would you create art that destroys or ruins the amazing art the you made before it even as a artist why would you create art that destroys or tarnishes the other great paintings or art based things that you have created

[Archonsg]

*deleted* miss-post

Modifié par Archonsg, 19 avril 2012 - 07:23 .

[LiarasShield]

it is like bioware is insulting or degrading it's self and it is sad