23455 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

if I had one wish it would be to be put on the bioware team and show them all the plot holes and how the star child ai wouldn't work and tell them that the smartest idea would be keeping normandy with the fleet wether they get destroyed or not

[LiarasShield]

And for female shepards last conversation with anderson I don't think this should've been cut out

this conversation made it even more compeling

[Redbelle]

hopeisreal wrote...

Can i just put my 5 cents in here....

I don't think you should change your ending...or even add to it.

It is what it is. I thought the ending was a complete joke, lazy and lacked effort...but I can't force you as writers to change it.

cheers

True from a certain point of view. If this were a book in print I don't think the ending would be changed as it is what it is.

But this is Mass Effect. Bioware have along the whole process, involved gamers in creating the content by dissecting opinion's to uncover what ppl are after to deciding what character model and hair model the official femshep should possess. They have essentially enabled players to feedback to them.

DLC plays a key role to the calls for a better ending. After all in ME2 we blew up the collectors and strolled off to revel in our awesomeness. And then we were given a DLC that showed it wasn't the end.... just the end of the official packaged story line and another 'end' was provided that fed into ME3. So BW have set a precedent for changing their ending.... in a manner of speaking.

Lastly. Our Shepards, regardless of choices, genders or classes, are our Shepards. We have all got to know how our Shepards would deal with the situation. Some of our Shepards have accepted the ending ... others have decided that the ending was not how they would have dealt with it. I'm still waiting for the 'kick GC out of skyscraprer' option. Strictly for nostalgic reasons of course. Our Shepards gave us the power to run around the ME universe and interact with it. And while I know this is the end of Shepards story.... I at the very least expected it to be a bookmark end. Something that would not result in a moment where I'd be staring at the end credits with incredulity thinking that I must have missed something.

So Shepard essentially burns to a crisp and Reapers disappear though space magic? That's an ending I might expect from TV's Star Trek. Frankly I expected better from the practically a movie Mass Effect.

[LiarasShield]

Female shepards cut dilogue with anderson in his final moments were really heart touching I'm surprised more the anything that it was cut out

[Redbelle]

LiarasShield wrote...

if I had one wish it would be to be put on the bioware team and show them all the plot holes and how the star child ai wouldn't work and tell them that the smartest idea would be keeping normandy with the fleet wether they get destroyed or not

If BW are serious about making ME4 then perhaps the reason why things happened the way they did was that it all feeds into the next chapter of ME without Shepard as our protaganist. just a thought.

[LiarasShield]

still not acceptable what happened is what the characters themselves would've never done they would've never abandon shepard let alone all the fleets that were gathered though they would never commit treason or become a deserter because they never did that before so why the hell would they start

[Archonsg]

Redbelle wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

if I had one wish it would be to be put on the bioware team and show them all the plot holes and how the star child ai wouldn't work and tell them that the smartest idea would be keeping normandy with the fleet wether they get destroyed or not

If BW are serious about making ME4 then perhaps the reason why things happened the way they did was that it all feeds into the next chapter of ME without Shepard as our protaganist. just a thought.

That's easy. Have the following chapter be 80-150 years after events of ME3. 
Said and done. 
Shepard's gone, his or her legacy stays and a whole new begining to play with.
Did NOT have to frack up the entire Galaxy, you know the one we WERE going "TAKE OUR MONEY!! WE WANT MOAAARRR!" for. 

Modifié par Archonsg, 19 avril 2012 - 07:35 .

[LiarasShield]

if shepard does live in the good destroy ending if they stay with the whole broken characters and them doing stuff they would've never done I hope shepard gets a chance to shoot joker in the head because I'd rather kill joker and the rest of my crew then to see them commit acts they would never do or abandon thee alliance during the most important battle

[LiarasShield]

because they would have never commited treason or becoming desserters I'm sorry mass effect 1 and 2 and most of 3 proved that time and again

[LiarasShield]

If this travesty of characters and lore must happen then let me put a end to them at least it will finally ease my conscious

Modifié par LiarasShield, 19 avril 2012 - 07:41 .

[synnerman]

Marvel Comics changed an entire story arc in the old X-Statix series when non-fans freaked out about a story using a resurrected Princess Diana.

Stories change all the time. The ending not only is uninspired, vague, and rips any sense of gameplay from the player, the "buy more DLC" at the end is an insulting cap. "Hey, we give you crappy ending, buy more stuff."

Don't hide behind "art."

[LiarasShield]

You want to know why the mordin scene at the shroud tower was so awesome was because mordin still remained true to his character but realized that he made a mistake that his general assumptions were wrong that not all krogan only want to destroy the galaxy or cause everyone grief wrex and eve proves that first hand and mordin owns up to his mistake and seeks to make this right see that is what I loved because he stayed true to his character that is why I can't accept the sabotage of the characters towards the ending because joker stayed around to pick shepard up from the collector base because they cared or was sad until shepard came out of the rubble during the fight with soverign so no I can't accept that he would be a coward and abandon the rest of the fleets and become a desserter nor can I see the other loyal crew members just letting him espically liara because of the time capsule and the final gift before the charge towards the beam where she embraces shepard and they sortive see what happended in liaras life or at least shepard sees it anyway the whole point being is that characters did not stay true to themselves at the ending

Modifié par LiarasShield, 19 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[TimLoos]

Aside from the endings, I would also really like more and different cutscenes of my different warassets, and how they influence the final battle, and how the can possible make a difference in defeat/victory. Then my choices in the previous games would actually matter, and could make for an epic battle.

Modifié par TimLoos, 19 avril 2012 - 07:53 .

[Headbutters inc]

Has any Bioware staff been on this thread and actually said they are listening?

[LiarasShield]

even though in me2 I hated mordin didn't even give a damn because he was so annoying in me3 I cared about him I even respected him for wanting to fix his mistake and make it right

" I made a mistake big picture made of many little pictures couldn't see bigger scenario It had to be me otherwise someone else might've gotten it wrong" Mordin

[zarnk567]

Headbutters inc wrote...

Has any Bioware staff been on this thread and actually said they are listening?

Pffff... no, this seems like more of a rage dump thread made by Bioware.

[synnerman]

Redbelle wrote...

True from a certain point of view. If this were a book in print I don't think the ending would be changed as it is what it is.

Also books get re-edited all the time before reprinting. This is no different.

[Blackvista]

zarnk567 wrote...

sdinc009 wrote...

Sir Arthor Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes)
Charles Dickens (The Old Curiosity Shop)
F Scott Fitzgerald (Tender Is the Night)
Ridley Scott (Blade Runner)
All changed their masterpieces after receiving negative feedback from their fanbase and/or critics. Would anyone at Bioware say these masters of their craft sacrificed artistic integrity? Or do the writers at Bioware think they are better then the artists I listed above? Artistic Integrity, you argument is invalid. Oh wait I forgot one:
Bioware (Mass Effect: Deception)

Dont' forget Hideo Kojima (MGS series) changing the MGS4 ending.,after his writing staff read it and said it was too dark and depressing for an already sad and dark story. Kojima's orginal ending had Solid Snake and Otacon put to death by the United States as traitors for their "war crimes" in MGS2.
After seeing his writing staff's reaction and thinking about fan reaction Kojima changed it, I repected the man before that and I repected him even more for not letting his ego and pride get in the way of writing a great game ending.

Absolutely...

Anyone, in any medium, with an editor, has likely had to change something about their work.   Anyone with a client or a bottom line to consider has probably had to chang their work to reflect external demands. 

The whole "artistic integrity" argument is a load of fetid dingos kidneys...  it's a lazy dodge... because "what is art?" isn't a black and white question... there are so many ways of interpreting "art" that it can be anything... and so  calling something "art" doesn't make it sacred.  I'd say that creations with artistic merit exist on a sort of continuum with the expression of an individual vision that exists for its own sake on the one side.. and.. derivative works that exist for other purposes (ie generating money) on the other. 

Compared to many other games out there, Mass Effect has more.. artistic merit...  but it's not on the purer side of this scale.  There are too many factors working against it.  budget, deadlines, marketing concerns, publisher interference, compromise springing from creative differences, lack of a singular artistic vision derived from a team effort with changing personnel.... etc etc... and this isn't the work of some painter who creates what he or she will,  and only seeks a market after a work's completion.... this is a product crafted with a specific consumer in mind.  (And isn't even created by "an artist" it's produced by a company that employs artists, and is owned by an even larger (and more sinister) corporate entity.)

So no.. "artistic merit" is bollocks when it comes to something that was marketed mercilessly, advertised as having specific features, and released with parts of the story that were sold separately.  In fact.. I'd go so far as to say that with all of EA's influence... buying a game these days is more like buying a car.  Yeah, you want it to be beautiful, you want to it to have great (story) lines, and you want to feel good in the driver's seat, but I wouldn't say I was buying "art."  Especially when they want to charge you for all the extras... 

Modifié par Blackvista, 19 avril 2012 - 08:05 .

[Blackvista]

zarnk567 wrote...

Headbutters inc wrote...

Has any Bioware staff been on this thread and actually said they are listening?

Pffff... no, this seems like more of a rage dump thread made by Bioware.

Lol... and so much rage..

[darkway1]

Why the hell don't they just make a MASS3 expansion.......call it the MASS3 "IT" EDITION.....state clearly that this is NOT how Mass3 was intended to end but has been created due to demand.

It will make everyone happy.....it will make money.....deliverers a more expectable ending.....retains MASS3 as it was originally intended......proves Bioware/EA is in fact listening.....everyone is a winner.

[3DandBeyond]

CountDrunku wrote...

I do not know what the topic currently is at the moment, it is very hard to follow XD
And I know somebody has already stated this, or at least I hope :3

Riddle Me This:
Why was there so much emphasis placed on chatting with all your squadmates before assaulting the beam - even as to go as far as having a guy setup to communicate with all your squadmates - the people you care about - some people care about XD - but . . .
Hardly any emphasis was place on your squadmates after the big choice that effects everyone? O.o

What the hell happened lol XD
And why the flash back to certain people?
Every person was needed to complete this journey lol XD
Without Tali, we couldn't even start this journey back when fighting Saren!

It is really weird. No matter how much character you put into your Shepard, there was still a specific character Shepard played. To me, the ending completely throws out the Shepard started in Mass Effect 1 and added to in Mass Effect 2.

I have some reasons why I didn't like how the story played out. Certain spotlights placed on certain characters and certain characters who did have a spotlight in previous games, had little to do with anything. The biggest spotlight was the kid, blinding my eyes of everything I came to love ( Harbinger lol XD and the reapers! great villain! )

Stupid analogy, I know. Anyway,
Shepard didn't feel like Shepard at the end of Mass Effect 3, if that makes any sense whatsoever.
The ending was streamlined, made perfect sense in Mass Effect 3, but gave little connection to other games, for me. The ending. Not the journey, ending. The answer to questions spanning over the whole series. Why do I even care about synthetic versus organics? Technically, I do but realistically, I don't lol XD It was galaxy vs reapers. I wish I still believe that lol XD. Some people say, that's life, somethings don't matter.

And I say, bull crap lol XD I have a spaceship and alien companions! And I am fighting giant squid robots! If you believe the ending of mass effect was fine, you liked it, then . . .
I am so jealous of you lol. It totally ruined me. I do not know if BioWare cares about me and myself.
I do know, currently, BioWare has lost me as a consumer.

And the extended free dlc, I swear, if everyone jumps through the relays just before they explode cause of shepards choice, in case the relays somehow get destroyed, that is complete bull XD
Anderson said no retreat on the ground. I believe the same worked in space - if the battle is lost, everyone looses. Just like the battle with the quarians and geth, they didn't just STOP FIRIING. Even if there is a time frame of the giant blast and the release of energy toward the relays, don't you think the crew of the normandy would be like, let's go get shepard?

Wait! His life signs, they are fading . . . there is no life signs! WE GOTTA MOVE?! Get to the relay lol XD.

Just so you and others know, I've posted this before but it is the best and most complete explanation as to how many of us feel about the ending.  It's about 40 minutes but the guy does a fantastic job of explaining how the ending strays so far from any coherence, connection with the rest of the story. 




I totally agree with you that in the end my teammates don't matter, they aren't with me, but all throughout these games they matter a lot to me.  And I did to them.  The retreat thing makes no sense.  A whole book could be written about how the ending makes no sense.

[3DandBeyond]

Redbelle wrote...

hopeisreal wrote...

Can i just put my 5 cents in here....

I don't think you should change your ending...or even add to it.

It is what it is. I thought the ending was a complete joke, lazy and lacked effort...but I can't force you as writers to change it.

cheers

True from a certain point of view. If this were a book in print I don't think the ending would be changed as it is what it is.

But this is Mass Effect. Bioware have along the whole process, involved gamers in creating the content by dissecting opinion's to uncover what ppl are after to deciding what character model and hair model the official femshep should possess. They have essentially enabled players to feedback to them.

DLC plays a key role to the calls for a better ending. After all in ME2 we blew up the collectors and strolled off to revel in our awesomeness. And then we were given a DLC that showed it wasn't the end.... just the end of the official packaged story line and another 'end' was provided that fed into ME3. So BW have set a precedent for changing their ending.... in a manner of speaking.

Lastly. Our Shepards, regardless of choices, genders or classes, are our Shepards. We have all got to know how our Shepards would deal with the situation. Some of our Shepards have accepted the ending ... others have decided that the ending was not how they would have dealt with it. I'm still waiting for the 'kick GC out of skyscraprer' option. Strictly for nostalgic reasons of course. Our Shepards gave us the power to run around the ME universe and interact with it. And while I know this is the end of Shepards story.... I at the very least expected it to be a bookmark end. Something that would not result in a moment where I'd be staring at the end credits with incredulity thinking that I must have missed something.

So Shepard essentially burns to a crisp and Reapers disappear though space magic? That's an ending I might expect from TV's Star Trek. Frankly I expected better from the practically a movie Mass Effect.

Actually, book and movie endings are changed all the time.  Book editors and even author's agents read the books and sometimes don't like the endings and they may object because the ending is likely to turn off readers.  A lot of movies will also sell you director's cuts as well as different versions of the endings created for them when you buy DVDs or if you pay for streaming services.  No art today is ever done in a vaccuum that ignores sale-ability.  No one can afford it.  One of the original blockbuster movies of early moviedom, Gone With the Wind had more than one ending and the book ending was different from the movie ending.  Why?  Because of perceived fan reception. 

And any producer of material for mass consumption will tell you quite often your "art" if you want to sell it has to reach for the lowest common denominator in terms of consumers in order to reach the most people.  That means if you are an author of a certain genre, you will have to write to the median age level of your audience.  Stephen King writes at an 8th grade level on purpose.  Some authors write g-rated books at a 3rd grade level. 

That doesn't mean it's because people are all stupid.  It just means that in order to have the broadest audience you must  let everyone in.  You don't want to create a ghost story that requires a PHD to be understood.  It won't sell that many copies.  It's not likely to be a fun read.

The problem is with this ending it's hard to even imagine what this means for the people you cared about and it's hard to even try to imagine that.  You almost don't want to think about it.  It's like someone just slammed the door on any feelings you might have.  It's bad enough you know they intend this to be the last ME for Shepard, but they don't even let you in on what happened after s/he and her "family" went through all this.  Even if in some crazy starkid's brain this all made some sense, they didn't even let you see that people cared about what happened.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 19 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[helloween7]

hopeisreal wrote...

Can i just put my 5 cents in here....

I don't think you should change your ending...or even add to it.

It is what it is. I thought the ending was a complete joke, lazy and lacked effort...but I can't force you as writers to change it.

cheers

Well, of course we can't force BW tto change the ending. But consider it like this. 

As of now, thyey've lost me as a customer. One of the first things I did after finishing ME3 was cancelling my SWTOR subscription. I am not giving them one more cent. Cents are hard to come by lately.

I haven't even downloaded the Free MP pack.

They have lied to me, delivered a subpar product, and implied I'm not smart enough to understand (why else would I need "clarification"?) their "art".

I could perfectly shut up about it, go on with my life and forget BioWare ever existed.

But I want to love this game. I want to be a BW fan.

So for old times sake, and because I believe Mass Effect 3 is 15 minutes away of becoming a masterpiece, I have decided to give them one last chance to regain my trust. It involves completely rewriting the ending and getting rid of that annoying kid. 

[3DandBeyond]

helloween7 wrote...


Well, of course we can't force BW tto change the ending. But consider it like this. 

As of now, thyey've lost me as a customer. One of the first things I did after finishing ME3 was cancelling my SWTOR subscription. I am not giving them one more cent. Cents are hard to come by lately.

I haven't even downloaded the Free MP pack.

They have lied to me, delivered a subpar product, and implied I'm not smart enough to understand (why else would I need "clarification"?) their "art".

I could perfectly shut up about it, go on with my life and forget BioWare ever existed.

But I want to love this game. I want to be a BW fan.

So for old times sake, and because I believe Mass Effect 3 is 15 minutes away of becoming a masterpiece, I have decided to give them one last chance to regain my trust. It involves completely rewriting the ending and getting rid of that annoying kid. 

Agreed.

[darkway1]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

hopeisreal wrote...

Can i just put my 5 cents in here....

I don't think you should change your ending...or even add to it.

It is what it is. I thought the ending was a complete joke, lazy and lacked effort...but I can't force you as writers to change it.

cheers

True from a certain point of view. If this were a book in print I don't think the ending would be changed as it is what it is.

But this is Mass Effect. Bioware have along the whole process, involved gamers in creating the content by dissecting opinion's to uncover what ppl are after to deciding what character model and hair model the official femshep should possess. They have essentially enabled players to feedback to them.

DLC plays a key role to the calls for a better ending. After all in ME2 we blew up the collectors and strolled off to revel in our awesomeness. And then we were given a DLC that showed it wasn't the end.... just the end of the official packaged story line and another 'end' was provided that fed into ME3. So BW have set a precedent for changing their ending.... in a manner of speaking.

Lastly. Our Shepards, regardless of choices, genders or classes, are our Shepards. We have all got to know how our Shepards would deal with the situation. Some of our Shepards have accepted the ending ... others have decided that the ending was not how they would have dealt with it. I'm still waiting for the 'kick GC out of skyscraprer' option. Strictly for nostalgic reasons of course. Our Shepards gave us the power to run around the ME universe and interact with it. And while I know this is the end of Shepards story.... I at the very least expected it to be a bookmark end. Something that would not result in a moment where I'd be staring at the end credits with incredulity thinking that I must have missed something.

So Shepard essentially burns to a crisp and Reapers disappear though space magic? That's an ending I might expect from TV's Star Trek. Frankly I expected better from the practically a movie Mass Effect.

Actually, book and movie endings are changed all the time.  Book editors and even author's agents read the books and sometimes don't like the endings and they may object because the ending is likely to turn off readers.  A lot of movies will also sell you director's cuts as well as different versions of the endings created for them when you buy DVDs or if you pay for streaming services.  No art today is ever done in a vaccuum that ignores sale-ability.  No one can afford it.  One of the original blockbuster movies of early moviedom, Gone With the Wind had more than one ending and the book ending was different from the movie ending.  Why?  Because of perceived fan reception. 

And any producer of material for mass consumption will tell you quite often your "art" if you want to sell it has to reach for the lowest common denominator in terms of consumers in order to reach the most people.  That means if you are an author of a certain genre, you will have to write to the median age level of your audience.  Stephen King writes at an 8th grade level on purpose.  Some authors write g-rated books at a 3rd grade level. 

That doesn't mean it's because people are all stupid.  It just means that in order to have the broadest audience you must  let everyone in.  You don't want to create a ghost story that requires a PHD to be understood.  It won't sell that many copies.  It's not likely to be a fun read.

The problem is with this ending it's hard to even imagine what this means for the people you cared about and it's hard to even try to imagine that.  You almost don't want to think about it.  It's like someone just slammed the door on any feelings you might have.  It's bad enough you know they intend this to be the last ME for Shepard, but they don't even let you in on what happened after s/he and her "family" went through all this.  Even if in some crazy starkid's brain this all made some sense, they didn't even let you see that people cared about what happened.

I don't think any one is going to do anything on the grounds that people are upset about not knowing the out come of party members.
The ending was just plain rubish and did not make sense,that's what they need to fix first........how is TIM at the end,what was he going to do there,if he shot Shepard whould TIM go on to meet starchild ,pick contol and blow every thing up as Shepard does???
what the hell are all those clips of the Normandy about........are they there just to do some adam and eve thing?........so you pick the green ending,everything merges......so what stops basic organic and synthetic evolving to exactly the same senario as we presently have......green option fixes now.....not the future.....and what the hell is green magic any way???....and on and on.......