23455 réponses à ce sujet

[darthoptimus003]

you know the sayng "customer is always right"
well we the fans who hated the ending are saying "new one please" are the customer
so we are saying ending sucks change it or give what was promised

[Jonah Lee Walker]

darthoptimus003 wrote...

you know the sayng "customer is always right"
well we the fans who hated the ending are saying "new one please" are the customer
so we are saying ending sucks change it or give what was promised

It still could become right, but the problem is all the complaints havent' hurt the bottom line. If they release paid content and it barely sells, or their next game barely sells they might learn their lesson. I am actually amazed that they haven't responded with a sober response to all this backlash and said, we will add new endings to please the fans and keep customers. It is not like if they continue Mass Effect they can't continue from their destroyed universe if they really want to, but for this game we want a satisfying ending!

[Kaelef]

sdinc009 wrote...

Here's an extremely well written and honest review from the California Literary Review. Everyone should give it read

http://calitreview.com/24673

Great review.  Recommended reading for most people checking out this thread.

The guy's other articles are also worth reading (click on his name in the byline).

[3DandBeyond]

You know, the ability to apologize often can negate the lasting effects of some mistakes. I think if they do merely look at the fan videos (not just the hate ones, but those that are about things people loved in the game) and if they just look at how out of place the ending is with all the love people heaped on these games, they could come to the same conclusion as fans did.

If they would take the time to read the salient reviews like those of the California Literary Review or the Understated Nerd Rage video or some of the blogs out there, then they'd realize where their good story, the true artwork of the game was abandoned.

And if they have realized this and reach out to us, then we as fans would appreciate and applaud them for this. It's the ability to recognize and admit one's mistakes that makes one truly great and it can build lasting relationships. Even at this point in time, if they'd just take an unemotional, non-possessive look at what people are saying and really try to understand and then reach out in an earnest, honest matter, much of this would go away.

I don't think the people at Bioware are unreasonable, ignorant people. I do think they want to please their fans as much as they want to please themselves with a truly great ending. I think, if they are honest and resist the natural urge to react out of hurt, they could see just how cryptic the ending is. Not because we don't understand it, but because it is not a part of this story, Shepard's story. I believe that part of the problem they may have right now is that in order to communicate effectively with us fans, they must first know where they will go with the ending or they think they must drop what they are doing.

To Bioware-one business owner to another:

What we want is an olive branch. Something that says you, Bioware, have really heard us and that you understand our complaints. We want you to take a real hard look at what your fans are saying. Some of the biggest mouths acting out against you are doing so because they have been the most faithful and they have loved what you have done. I am a business owner and what I sell is based upon my own creativity. I understand the impulse to be protective of what you have created.

But, many of my best "ideas" have come from friends, family, and customers who say, "you should do it this way." Initially, I would take such things to heart and be almost angry that my art wasn't appreciated. I got a thicker skin and realized I am not making things merely to please myself, but to make others happy. I can stay true to my vision, while incorporating other people's ideas. So can you. I also learned to apologize to unhappy customers and I learned to let them know I may not have done right by them at first, but that I intended to do right by them from now on. You keep faith with your fans/customers. But above all, you start a dialog (that means participation from both sides) so that you can better understand what your customers are saying. You ask questions, they ask questions and both sides learn something. And in doing this, you keep customers and you form a relationship.

You may say that you put out that Extended Cut announcement to address such complaints, but the problem is, it dismissed most of the things your fans found lacking in the ending.  Furthermore, though I am sure it was unintentional, it seemed insulting to many.  Dismissive and insulting is what will be remembered along with an unsatisfactory, unsatisfying, cryptic ending.  I am a business owner and I would not want to be remembered like that by my customers.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 21 avril 2012 - 03:27 .

[Yelloheadx]

I can't imagine that any response from BioWare prior to the release of the EC DLC would be helpful. It's kinda Annie Wilkes around here.

I just hope that the EC DLC shows that BioWare has exquisite active listening skills.

I simply cannot maintain any emotional attachment to a game universe that ends in a nihilistic train wreck. This simply negates any desire to buy more content. What would be the point?

[3DandBeyond]

Yelloheadx wrote...

I can't imagine that any response from BioWare prior to the release of the EC DLC would be helpful. It's kinda Annie Wilkes around here.

I just hope that the EC DLC shows that BioWare has exquisite active listening skills.

I simply cannot maintain any emotional attachment to a game universe that ends in a nihilistic train wreck. This simply negates any desire to buy more content. What would be the point?

I think you are correct, but I will still keep trying as will others.

I feel as you do.  It took all the fun out of playing the games and made replaying them pointless.

[Dwest24]

I just finished Mass Effect 3 and I never once even imagined it would be this disappointing. I saw people complaining but I just couldn't believe that after having such a fantastic experience with the series that the ending could be as bad as people were saying. I used to love BioWare, I used to buy every game and eagerly anticipate the next release, but I've become so tired of being disappointed. I feel insulted by the end of ME3. I am offended that BioWare would allow it to be released. And I couldn't care less about a happy ending, I just wanted one that made sense and felt relevant. I can honestly say I am done with BioWare, and it hurts me to say it because of how fantastic their old games were, but now...I am done.

[Tyramius Zhan]

I know this will come across as "hopelessly" optimistic, but after culling through various posts and watching the many fantastic youtube documentaries, my mind is convinced this is some form of marketing stunt. I think that intoctrination video is damn close. It is just way too damn illogical that the Bioware team could have hit right on so many minor details of minutae during ME3 that left me in awe how well they tied in things from previous games and decisions, to then just get up - walk away - and let a bunch of 10-year olds finish the story having no background on what previously occurred in ME universe.

I think they wanted to set a new standard in gameplay and consumer interaction. Throw out a conclusion they KNOW will upoar over 90% of their fanbase, get all the social media in overdive, maybe even get some government and legal attention (BBB for example), then when it hits a climax (or gets too near E3 and they want their rep back), they fire out the free DLC that completes the game with the ACTUAL ending they always intended (thus no "changing of the ending" they have chimed on) and sit back a reap all the mea culpas from the fanbase and slaps on the back for being bold enough to break the mold or whatever for company/consumer interaction and satisfaction.

I think the guys over at Bioware are having a chuckle in that this is going exactly the way they wanted.

God please let this be true....

[Kaelef]

A little quote from the latest article by the author of the review linked earlier:

“Boss Battle Blue Balls”, is the most alliteratively obvious way to describe the state many players find themselves in at the end of ME3, and I think being in this state is a primary reason the subsequent endings fail for many gamers.

http://calitreview.com/25421

BEWARE BBBB!

Modifié par Kaelef, 21 avril 2012 - 04:33 .

[3DandBeyond]

Tyramius Zhan wrote...

I know this will come across as "hopelessly" optimistic, but after culling through various posts and watching the many fantastic youtube documentaries, my mind is convinced this is some form of marketing stunt. I think that intoctrination video is damn close. It is just way too damn illogical that the Bioware team could have hit right on so many minor details of minutae during ME3 that left me in awe how well they tied in things from previous games and decisions, to then just get up - walk away - and let a bunch of 10-year olds finish the story having no background on what previously occurred in ME universe.

I think they wanted to set a new standard in gameplay and consumer interaction. Throw out a conclusion they KNOW will upoar over 90% of their fanbase, get all the social media in overdive, maybe even get some government and legal attention (BBB for example), then when it hits a climax (or gets too near E3 and they want their rep back), they fire out the free DLC that completes the game with the ACTUAL ending they always intended (thus no "changing of the ending" they have chimed on) and sit back a reap all the mea culpas from the fanbase and slaps on the back for being bold enough to break the mold or whatever for company/consumer interaction and satisfaction.

I think the guys over at Bioware are having a chuckle in that this is going exactly the way they wanted.

God please let this be true....

I have in many ways hoped for this myself, but the chances of a backfire are really great here.  I and others have said there are things pointing to this not being the ending that was intended.  They had in fact considered an Indoctrination ending (in the past tense they say), but that they were not doing one with Indoctrination gameplay.  This statement does not rule out narrative on Indoctrination.

In a time where even bad publicity is often considered good publicity, they may have been a bit naive about some things.  If they intended this uproar, it is unlikely they intended some of the real animosity attached to it.  If they do release something great and say, "this is what we planned all along", there are many that flat out will not believe it.  This is why I think it is so important for them to start building bridges.  In the past, their games have always spoken for them and there was no real need to do this, but times change.  This time they need to woo their fans a little bit.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 21 avril 2012 - 04:35 .

[stellap20]

Tyramius Zhan wrote...

I know this will come across as "hopelessly" optimistic, but after culling through various posts and watching the many fantastic youtube documentaries, my mind is convinced this is some form of marketing stunt. I think that intoctrination video is damn close. It is just way too damn illogical that the Bioware team could have hit right on so many minor details of minutae during ME3 that left me in awe how well they tied in things from previous games and decisions, to then just get up - walk away - and let a bunch of 10-year olds finish the story having no background on what previously occurred in ME universe.

I think they wanted to set a new standard in gameplay and consumer interaction. Throw out a conclusion they KNOW will upoar over 90% of their fanbase, get all the social media in overdive, maybe even get some government and legal attention (BBB for example), then when it hits a climax (or gets too near E3 and they want their rep back), they fire out the free DLC that completes the game with the ACTUAL ending they always intended (thus no "changing of the ending" they have chimed on) and sit back a reap all the mea culpas from the fanbase and slaps on the back for being bold enough to break the mold or whatever for company/consumer interaction and satisfaction.

I think the guys over at Bioware are having a chuckle in that this is going exactly the way they wanted.

God please let this be true....

that does sound great. It will be like waking up from this nightmare and everything is ok. But as u said hopefully optimistic:crying:

[3DandBeyond]

I want to know what part of this trailer we actually got in the game, or more rightly near and at the end with the battle for Earth.

[Levi1988]

Pretty much summed up my feelings.

(not for younger audiences)

[Kelwing]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I want to know what part of this trailer we actually got in the game, or more rightly near and at the end with the battle for Earth.

Shrug who knows, sure would be awesome to be part of that. Oh and did someone edit that video? Date at end said 9-3-12

[Kaelef]

Most of you have probably seen this, but I just saw it a few minutes ago, so I figured it couldn't hurt to mention... It's another well thought out and argued case for fixing the ending of ME3. Smart and funny.



A quote from part of the video:

Liara just cried and cried constantly, and was
never happy again for the rest of her life.
Javik kept making fun of her the whole time too,
always saying mean things like "Asari would never
have figured out how to write and stuff on their
own, because they're too stupid."

[matthew220]

I just finished my 2nd play through and would like feedback on the three final choices, not the endings, but the means to get them. 

In the extended DLC I'd like an answer to why someone or something would design 3  fail safe options to stop/change the cycle around the notion that the only way to activate it is to kill the one who uses it. 

Starchild's design options included:

1: Destroy Reapers by shooting a tube, no need for an off button, he knew that someone would show up one day, one cycle, with a gun to make this option work.

2. Control Option:  Once again a panel or an interface would not work, instead the user has to be the link between two tesla coils in order to activate this one.  We saw that the Geth had a way to send an organic into their AI mainframe, but the Reapers who are super more advanced need you to fry yourself to connect.

3. Synthesis:  Can't use a blood sample or a dna swab, nope the end user needs to swan dive into an energy beam.  Forget the fact that the Catalyst was not designed by starchild and his reapers but by the civilizations who wanted them dead, this beam with its space magic was intended all along and the only way to use it properly is for a cyborg to swan dive into it. 


I have no problem with the commander dying, but it would have been nice for him to go out in a blaze of glory (1 scripted ending) instead of making 3 railroaded choices (not endings, but choices to A) Shoot a tube, fry yourself, C) swan dive into an energy beam) that have no foundation in the universe the game is set in. 

Modifié par matthew220, 21 avril 2012 - 06:14 .

[carabaldo75]

Rannoch... Liara romance... Garrus moments... Mordin. I loved everything. Then happened a horrid ending.
to be "costructive" I'd really liked to get an end where 1)reapers had sense ( like now it's just like the yo dawg meme) 2) choiches had weight 3) You understand something about whant happens next

[ackillian]

 Dear Bioware,I would like to begin by saying that I love your games. I am a huge fan of Mass effect and have followed the series since Saren and Sovereign tried to take the Citadel. This is by far my favorite series and at every turn you have delivered the best Si-fy action shooter ever. Thank you. However, I do have a comment on the Mass Effect Ending. I don't quite understand the last conversation with the boy but I will wait until the now announced DLC is out to comment on that. But, I do wish to comment on the final battle with the Reapers. I have entered such battle three times and each time was at a completely different state of readiness. The first time I was barely prepared with around 3000 war assets and 60% galactic readiness. The battle was thrilling but was mostly a crushing defeat at the hands of the reapers until the Crucible was fired. Then, in the second go around with a new imported character from ME2, I entered the battle with around 5000 war assets and 90% readiness. The battle and cinematic (to the best of my memory) went very differently. It was still a thrilling battle but was a little more in my favor, with 50% of Hammer landing instead of 25%. Plus, the opening fleet battle went a little longer and was more in my favor, however this could just by my mistake and they may have been the same. Lastly, on the third go around with a new character I had recently started in ME1 and taken through 2 and 3, I entered the final battle with just over 6000 war assets and 100% galactic readiness. I entered that last mass relay with a feeling of hope and anxiousness as my fleet went to meet the reapers with the highest readiness and preparation rating I had ever given them. Unfortunately, the battle was not quite what I had hoped. I was hoping for another thrilling, explosive combat video in which the forces of the galaxy kicked the reapers right back into whatever hell they crawled out of. Unfortunately, the battle scene, and percentage of Hammer that made it into FOB was the exact same as the second go around. It was still a thrilling, amazing piece of artwork and exciting story which kept me involved in what was going on but I feel was just a bit lacking. I personally would have loved to be more involved in the larger battle as a whole, especially in the fleet battle. I felt as if the battle the entire game was leading up to was just bypassed by the Normandy. Also on the ground and in space I would have loved to see more of my War Assets. I would like to have seen that my missions to rescue Elcor warriors or save the Hanar and Drell as well as the Spectre squad. Also even with the all the salarian aid possible they are not shown in the fleet battle. I was intrigued when I read that the Salarians had cloaked Dreadnoughts and would have loved to see them in action. I love the mass effect series and would highly support a Mass Effect MMO since Shepard's story is over. I cant think of anything better than being able to command a Turian, Asari, Salarian, or even Human or Krogan Warship fighting a galactic war focusing on the war and not the setup and leadership aspect as you see with Shepard. Again, just my opinion, and I still think that Bioware is great, regardless of what you decide to do with the Mass Effect Franchise. Regards, Ackillian

[RobinEJ]

Are you listening?
So maybe you should listen this - Interview with Hold the Line - our plans for RetakeME3

Enjoy BW.

Modifié par RobinEJ, 21 avril 2012 - 07:59 .

[Archonsg]

matthew220 wrote...

I just finished my 2nd play through and would like feedback on the three final choices, not the endings, but the means to get them. 

In the extended DLC I'd like an answer to why someone or something would design 3  fail safe options to stop/change the cycle around the notion that the only way to activate it is to kill the one who uses it. 

Starchild's design options included:

1: Destroy Reapers by shooting a tube, no need for an off button, he knew that someone would show up one day, one cycle, with a gun to make this option work.

2. Control Option:  Once again a panel or an interface would not work, instead the user has to be the link between two tesla coils in order to activate this one.  We saw that the Geth had a way to send an organic into their AI mainframe, but the Reapers who are super more advanced need you to fry yourself to connect.

3. Synthesis:  Can't use a blood sample or a dna swab, nope the end user needs to swan dive into an energy beam.  Forget the fact that the Catalyst was not designed by starchild and his reapers but by the civilizations who wanted them dead, this beam with its space magic was intended all along and the only way to use it properly is for a cyborg to swan dive into it. 


I have no problem with the commander dying, but it would have been nice for him to go out in a blaze of glory (1 scripted ending) instead of making 3 railroaded choices (not endings, but choices to A) Shoot a tube, fry yourself, C) swan dive into an energy beam) that have no foundation in the universe the game is set in. 

I would like to add that its FINE if Shepard dying is ONE of the paths I could have taken. 
It should not be THE ONLY path.
Mass Effect is built on the fact that the players made choices and chose a path for their commander Shepards to take. If you want to take the "heroic sacrifice" path, that's all good, but there are many others who would want to have the CHOICE TO MAKE and take another path. 
Me, personally, I'd want the "Triumphant Victory" path. 

BW advertised that we'd have a different endings. Different means to the same end, isn't it. 

[kbatjennings]

After seeing a post that said even the Better Business Bureau alleged Bioware of false advertising with regards to controlling the games outcome I feel more at peace now about trading in my Mass Effect 3 Collector's Edition. Worst investment in gaming i have made to date. But might as well see what EA Sports has to offer now with NHL 13

[Archonsg]

The sad thing about returning your game especially if it's a retail copy is that EA/Bioware aren't the ones paying the price. Its your retailer. As far as EA/Bioware is concerned, they were already paid for those copies that your retailer is now stuck with.

[Redbelle]

Archonsg wrote...

matthew220 wrote...

I just finished my 2nd play through and would like feedback on the three final choices, not the endings, but the means to get them. 

In the extended DLC I'd like an answer to why someone or something would design 3  fail safe options to stop/change the cycle around the notion that the only way to activate it is to kill the one who uses it. 

Starchild's design options included:

1: Destroy Reapers by shooting a tube, no need for an off button, he knew that someone would show up one day, one cycle, with a gun to make this option work.

2. Control Option:  Once again a panel or an interface would not work, instead the user has to be the link between two tesla coils in order to activate this one.  We saw that the Geth had a way to send an organic into their AI mainframe, but the Reapers who are super more advanced need you to fry yourself to connect.

3. Synthesis:  Can't use a blood sample or a dna swab, nope the end user needs to swan dive into an energy beam.  Forget the fact that the Catalyst was not designed by starchild and his reapers but by the civilizations who wanted them dead, this beam with its space magic was intended all along and the only way to use it properly is for a cyborg to swan dive into it. 


I have no problem with the commander dying, but it would have been nice for him to go out in a blaze of glory (1 scripted ending) instead of making 3 railroaded choices (not endings, but choices to A) Shoot a tube, fry yourself, C) swan dive into an energy beam) that have no foundation in the universe the game is set in. 

I would like to add that its FINE if Shepard dying is ONE of the paths I could have taken. 
It should not be THE ONLY path.
Mass Effect is built on the fact that the players made choices and chose a path for their commander Shepards to take. If you want to take the "heroic sacrifice" path, that's all good, but there are many others who would want to have the CHOICE TO MAKE and take another path. 
Me, personally, I'd want the "Triumphant Victory" path. 

BW advertised that we'd have a different endings. Different means to the same end, isn't it. 

All good points. I think they can all be summed up though.

The Catalyst, not Shepard, by this point of the game, is the decision maker.

At this point in the game Shepard has stopped being the driving force of the game and instead all the power of choosing what narrative branch to follow is handed over to the StarKid who offers you the choices he wants you to make.

For 2 and a 9/10's of ME games we have controlled and decided who and what happens, live or dies in matters that Shepard is directly involved in. 3 games of validating the fact we in the commander Shepard driving seat choose the outcome of the end of the war with the Reapers. Then in the final 10 minutes we are are given no warning, explanation or command that the nature of our relationship with our Shepards is about to change. Instead of MAKING decisions that will affect the galaxy, we are GIVEN decisions that will affect the galaxy.

Many out there will rightly point out that all decisions in all the games were given to us. I can not, for example, stop on the way to the final battle to catch a movie staring Blasto. That choice would be coming from me, not the BW team who have already set the decisions that I can make in code. This however is a good thing. By limiting us to their decisions they control the most important thing in the ME universe. The narrative. BW have created decision points that serve to tell a story, but the means of moving through the story comes from the player. So why in the final 10 minutes did they remove Shepard as the forward moving force of the game?

Someone several weeks back wrote an ending to try and cope with the loss of narritive power, as our Shepards essentially do little more than stand around waiting to be prodded into what ever decision branch we elect. In it he put into words, as a conversation between Shepard and the Catalyst, the thing that bothered me.

"These aren't my choices, the're your choices. your system of saving organics is flawed, and now it's finally caught up with you your trying to ignore the problems and make us pay for your mistakes".

With that sentence I felt the force of the Shepard's character coming out and taking a stand. Then I understood that when I was playing as my Shepard in the final 10 minutes, I wasn't really Shepard the mover and shaker of the story anymore. He died with Anderson. The Shepard we are left with is a puppet, someone who can no longer conflict with what s/he does not agree with.

Many would point to blood loss, the mental fatigue etc etc as being likely explantions but we are now 10 minutes away from the climax of the story and we have been handed a Shepard who no longer resembles the Shepard we have grown to know. In 10 minutes we have to get to know the new Shepard all over again and in a narrative that is so close to the ending, that proves to be a bad decision as what we know of Shepard from 80hours of previous game time is not what is delivered at the end.

Shepard could still walk off into the machine and choose the 3 endings BW wrote, but I would have prefered the Shepard I came to know to be the one who made the sacrifice. Not a Shepard who was in every important respect, a stranger.

[Redbelle]

Archonsg wrote...

The sad thing about returning your game especially if it's a retail copy is that EA/Bioware aren't the ones paying the price. Its your retailer. As far as EA/Bioware is concerned, they were already paid for those copies that your retailer is now stuck with.

The retailer's are probably doing something to re-coup those costs. After all, this isn't just a matter of a few ppl asking for money back because the were dissatisfied with mechanics/graphics/story etc. The charge leveled at ME3 is so specific to the ending, that the quality of the narrative was not up to the rest of the game or even the series, that retailers can take that argument to EA.

[darkway1]

Redbelle wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

The sad thing about returning your game especially if it's a retail copy is that EA/Bioware aren't the ones paying the price. Its your retailer. As far as EA/Bioware is concerned, they were already paid for those copies that your retailer is now stuck with.

The retailer's are probably doing something to re-coup those costs. After all, this isn't just a matter of a few ppl asking for money back because the were dissatisfied with mechanics/graphics/story etc. The charge leveled at ME3 is so specific to the ending, that the quality of the narrative was not up to the rest of the game or even the series, that retailers can take that argument to EA.

The moment you open your game and break that seal you will not be able to return the product unless it is damaged in some way.In the UK the price of Mass3 dropped to almost half price a few weeks after launch....lots of people have mass3 now because it's cheap............a flagship game.....selling for half price 2 weeks after launch,what's that all about???

I think the original poster spoke of "trading" the game in via gamestop.........even though he had the collectors edition it presently doesn't mean anthing to the guy...so he's trading in the game to get somthing better I guess.