23455 réponses à ce sujet

[iDeevil]

When you talk about a new ending, do you mean additional choices, or just tweaking what of there for an better outcome (choices matter/colour outcome, makes a bit more sense, a sense of conclusions, more information on what happened to Normandy, how Liara and Ashley got off planet, rest of the team)? Because, semantically adding to something that already exists isn't making it 'new', but the outcome can be hugely different.

It depends on what they mean by not having a new ending...

[zarnk567]

Yea, I'm more concerned about Narrative cohesion and how the star-child snaps it like a twig once he appears. So unless they remove the star-child I don't expect much from it. Not to mention it's free, and their Publisher is EA, so that most likely means it requires no time/effort/money. But maybe I will be proven wrong by EA, I would welcome it since they have been sucking the life out of Developers for years.

Modifié par zarnk567, 21 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[Martin Baughman]

I really want to know if the team at Bioware is really taking serious consideration for what the fans are saying in the feedback and comments concerning the ending of Mass Effect 3 because I still hold high hopes that they will do right by us but all we wish to know from them directly that they are looking at our comments, our opinions of what to put in the "Extended Cut DLC" because some of them have really great ideas, and what we want Bioware to do for us to gain back our trust and support. I'm not against Bioware or EA though yes I do disapprove of the ending of ME3, I really do think they have seen the mistake they've made and they should get serious to do what they can to fix this.

[Jonah Lee Walker]

I hope they have seen there mistakes and add new choices to the ending, with new variations of what can happen at the least, but really I want a full retcon of the ending and have a good ending that works with different versions based on your actions.

Honestly they should pay Drew Karpyshyn whatever he wants and get him to come back and write the original ending he originally intended before going to Star Wars and then leaving the company.

[iDeevil]

I just have one HUGE issue with the ending... Why would Sheppard believe the reaper child? It just doesn't make any sense. The child's existence could, but listening to be child is a non, no IMO.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the extended endings are what they initially wanted to release and it wasn't ready by release so thy are fixing it now. I also, for some reason, suspect that ME4 is going to really finish Shepards story, in some way... Can't say why I believe this, just a feeling after reading Biowares responses.

[ElMuchu]

I just show the ending to my girl friend. She did not play to Mass Effect but I told her the story of ME1, ME2 and ME3 because she knows that they are my favorite games so she wanted to know why.
Her reaction was "you play so much for that?? What is this child? What did he do here and what is the connection with the rest of the story?? Why do Shepard believe him instead of kicking his ass?" Where is Hartbinger?? That is a nonsense!"
As a summary she did not play the game but has the same reaction than all of us. For me, that shows once again there is an issue with this ending.

[Graius]

Yes, that was my gf's reaction too.

[Rex Fallout]

iDeevil wrote...

But the problem is we don't know wha the 'extended ending' they are releasing is. It may be the fix that (I've) been looking for.

Mind you, my point also is we don't need *new* endings, we just need to tweaked what we have.  This also includes making choices count.  In the end, the choices don't matter and THAT is an issue.  Not to a great degree, because sometimes choices really are limited, but because it doesn't colour the outcome at all.

We do need new endigns.  The current endings are so terrible, that there is no way to fix them.  I do not want Bioware to step in and explain space magic.  I want Bioware to give what was promised to us.  The extended cut won't change anything,  all it will do is attempt to explain away space magic.  As far as I have seen, no voice actors have been called by bioware to make new cutscenes, or expand on old ones.  So nothing will change.  At all.

[carabaldo75]

Archonsg wrote...


Answer: AI strar-child never existed till those last 10 minutes.

So sadly true.
But.. why?

[Redbelle]

If the hope that BW have someone reading this and making notes, the ending should have been epic. It was not epic. Lots of ppl say it was not epic. It was a damp fuse that led to a fizzler when, it should have been a climatic ending. You can make bittersweet and climatic btw.

Looking to other game endings for inspiration lets take Halo, look at Cortana's speech stating that Edison got it wrong. He said the end will come not with a bang but with a whimper. ME whimpered to an end. Now I know you guys can form great endings from a narrative. You did it in ME1 and 2 and you tied up all the major plot's that started from ME1, from the Genophage to the Quarian/Geth problem and beyond. Your fans need, excuse the phrasing, a bang. Hoping your working on it but your press release of 'clarifying' the endings does not fill me with hope. Clarifying will not work as your narrative at the end collapsed under the weight of it's own revalations that were absent during the journey. The games end resolves none of what we the gamer have been led to understand throughout 3 games worth of ME universe creation.

All your fans know that you will be creating new DLC. It's been done in ME1, the a greater extent in ME2 and now in ME3 it's needed like never before. The love of this game by your players requires a fix of the game ending that is not only broken in many respects that your fans have gone to extreme lengths to point out, but has shown that as an end of story narrative it does not hold up to the standards that you BW created in the first place.

We're waiting on closure, not just for our individual stories but also on this terrible state of affair that we hope will be resolved not only to your customers satisfaction, but leaves the end narrative as something we the gamers can walk away from feeling fullfilled that Shepards mission is complete. Sad that we will never see him except in a replay. And hope that despite all the ME universe has endured at the hands of the Reapers that will will in later years be able to return to save all the people and species we have come to know and adore........ except the Batarians. They really hate me.

[Raven Kesrar]

Hey everyone

I wasn’t going to say anything about the ending but, after thinking about it since I finished the game several weeks ago and haven’t been able to play it again I thought well maybe I should speak…..

Since I found the mass effect universe I fell in love big time, the story, the characters, they are amazing, Shepard is awesome. The existence of the reapers just fascinated me.

When playing ME3 I was saying during the game wow, it’s just so cool, some of the things that happen like curing or not the genophage, Tuchanka felt like a real war zone, it’s one of my favorite parts in the game, the interactions with the different characters were well done.

I just love Liara in the game!!!!!

The problem that I have with the game is the fact that I can’t change the ending, all the things I did don’t really matter, I was rather disappointed by the lack of harbinger in the game, in ME2 it gave it a sort of tension moment to hear him , and the way things are explained by the star kid, just seem to degrade what the reapers were in the previous games, and personally to me it felt like a little bit to much to have Shepard apparently die or breath depending on your choice.

I know sometimes you cant have a happy ending but I was looking or hopping for an option to try and come back to your friends and LI I mean I did promise to come back in LOSB , so that was difficult to deal with …… The lack of hope in the game….. I know that with the ending that we have now there is room for some hope but I can’t seem to perceive it like that, with the mass relays gone……. I think I will stop there…..

With the extended cut what I would like to see is what happened to Shepard did she live or die????? Did my friends and LI look for me?????, were the reapers really destroyed or was this a sort of hallucination due to blood lost (I’m not referring to being indoctrinated, just blood lost)????



Should I hope or expect a Mass Effect 4 to complete in a deeper level this story??????????

Modifié par Raven Kesrar, 21 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[Child_of_Durga]

This is long because I've given it some thought.

I'm putting in this post because I want to give constructive (I hope) feedback on the ME3 ending(s) that doesn't involve vitriol and outrage. My background is in writing and dramaturgy and I find this whole issue very, very interesting from a storytelling perspective and in relation to how the genre works, from the problem with the ending to the amazing player reaction.

Firstly I'd like to say that I've played the game through all 3 parts and thoroughly enjoyed - loved - it. I think Bioware have done an amazing job in creating the work.  This is definitely art and we're watching the process of a young medium finding its feet, I feel.  I think Mass Effect will go down as one of the great gaming classics, although perhaps a slightly flawed one.

The ending doesn't quite work for me. In itself it's fine, excellent even, but it isn't properly set up in the preceding action. We don't know enough about the Reapers and their background to be able to evaluate the Catalyst's statement about organics and synthetics always being at odds, in fact that's not our experience. We know that the Geth are not responsible for the problems with the Quarians and anyway, Shepard has beaten them, even with Reaper enhancements.  There is no major theme running through the trilogy that explores the fundamental nature of synthetic vs organic life. An example of this type of theme in other works explores the point at which an entity becomes a person and what being a person means - this theme drove the drama in the film Blade Runner and in Isaac Asimov's books about robots.  But in Mass Effect the Reapers are essentially bad, there are no moral issues or mitigating circumstances - they are the enemy and whether they're machines or the giant insects they resemble is unimportant. As a result, when we get to the discussion with the Catalyst, we have to simply accept what he says about organics and synthetics at face value as we're not in a position to have an informed opinion. This is why the ending jars - it doesn't feel organic (excuse the pun), it feels imposed.

The other, possibly more interesting thing about the ending is directly to do with the gaming medium. The critical reception of ME3 has been outstanding.  But the critics play the game as a reader reads a novel - they play it once, write their review and then go on to the next game. They're no doubt delighted to come across a product with such fabulous production values, but they don't invest in the ME universe, they're in different game universes every week. The players, on the other hand, want to play the game again and again exploring different story branches, trying different difficulty settings etc.  I feel that the very definite demise of Shepard in all the endings (I'm not a multiplayer) undermines this process. If she's absolutely dead (sorry, Shepard is female for me), the resurrection of the character for a replay doesn't feel real, and it's a bit depressing knowing you're going to have to face your character dying at the end of every replay. All the hefty goodbyes to the squad mates - and the LI, gulp - before the final push reinforce this - it feels strange to go back into the game for a rerun. Dragon Age Origins dealt with the end much better (yep, I'm still playing it); sometimes you can do the totally noble thing if that seems right at the time, or you can take another path that makes complete emotional sense (regardless of the future ramifications). I feel that the ME3 ending would suit a Sci Fi novel more than it does a replayable computer game.

Another observation on writing. I read that Bioware took a lot of flack over one of the writers not actually playing computer games. My initial reaction was that as long as she can write well, who cares whether she plays. Then I remembered how impossible it is to write for television unless you really know and understand the potential of the medium, the same goes for theatre, film and novels. I suspect that in time the writers that are able to best weave action and storylines together and draw astonishing things out of the interaction will be those that have a real feel for gaming as well as the love of a good plot.

These are just observations and an attempt to figure out why there has been this extraordinary reaction. I will say, thank you Bioware for creating a universe in which we can all invest so much emotionally that the ending really matters.  If you hadn't done such an excellent job we wouldn't care. What I get most from my own thoughts and from reading everyone else’s is that no one has the answer yet.  I do feel, however, that if anyone's going to come up with a workable rubric for game endings it'll be you guys - asap please... no pressure...

Modifié par Child_of_Durga, 21 avril 2012 - 09:17 .

[Saltank]

Oh another thought that won't stop bugging me: Shepard still didn't get promoted after saving the galaxy two (three) times!
I even made this:
http://cdn.memegener...0x/18902454.jpg

Seriously.

[4509]

Has anyone noticed that there are a large amount of reviews written by "experts" insulting, patronizing and attacking the Retake movement? I heard one individual calling us a bunch of armchair quarterbacks who cannot make informed comments because we don't have degrees in creative writing/plot development/etc. I know of a whole bunch of excellent writers who don't have degrees in creative writing. Let's see... Shakespeare, pretty sure he didn't have one. Steven Tyler, just read his book and I think he would have mentioned going to college/university. I could go on, but the point is: Why can we be insulted for pushing our consumer weight around, yet we can't insult others (I don't think there should actually be any insulting by anyone)? We are in our rights to ask for different endings. We were told the end would be based on our choices throughout the series. But in reality, the rest of the game was based on that (and very well too I might add), the endings were based on a conversation with no choices and picking between 3 different colours. Unite synthetics and organics, yeah that relates to past choices... I chose to notice there were synthetics and organics in the series...and they hadn't been united... yet...

I'm going to stop looking for movements supporting the endings as they are. They are not civil, regulated, or well thought out in their arguments. I was hoping to find facebook group or something with "x" number of likes for keep the endings. All I found were a bunch of armchair experts insulting people for some feeling of power and influence.

Viva la Retake!

[Graius]

Put more simply, you don't need to be a carpenter to complain about a bad chair.

[NexusIsaac]

Listen, and listen.
We still have to see the outcome first, before we can judge or be critic to it.
On a sidenote though, how come you abandoned the "dark energy" plot?

Even though the "technological singularity" is quite intresting, poor dialogue makes the explanation bad.

Modifié par NexusIsaac, 21 avril 2012 - 10:08 .

[Graius]

Yes, though even there it requires a decent rewrite to make plausible. Not added cutscenes.

[duffenass]

Retcon everything except Tuchanka.

[stormsnake]

ok... I just finished it... (with only one ending so far)

all i can say is for all those that complained... yes i would like to a bit more meat on the bones for the ending..

BUT 

i got 100% NO issue with the ending..

with all the crankness ( i know i am late to come here with this) but stil... i had to say it.

GO READ SOME OF THE MORE EPIC TALES OF OUR TIME.

it is not always about the happy ending.  it about a fitting ending

Sorry had to say it

[zarnk567]

stormsnake wrote...

ok... I just finished it... (with only one ending so far)

all i can say is for all those that complained... yes i would like to a bit more meat on the bones for the ending..

BUT 

i got 100% NO issue with the ending..

with all the crankness ( i know i am late to come here with this) but stil... i had to say it.

GO READ SOME OF THE MORE EPIC TALES OF OUR TIME.

it is not always about the happy ending.  it about a fitting ending

Sorry had to say it

I'm not mad that its not a "happy ending" I'm mad that the ending broke the narrative cohesion of the entire story and broke the suspension of dis-belief for many..... go read some of the more epic tales of our time again, their endings had narrative cohesion that kept the player emerssed in their world and did not snap the suspension dis-belief of people like a twig.... and make people pick apart their whole entire world they created.

Modifié par zarnk567, 21 avril 2012 - 10:58 .

[Redbelle]

zarnk567 wrote...

stormsnake wrote...

ok... I just finished it... (with only one ending so far)

all i can say is for all those that complained... yes i would like to a bit more meat on the bones for the ending..

BUT 

i got 100% NO issue with the ending..

with all the crankness ( i know i am late to come here with this) but stil... i had to say it.

GO READ SOME OF THE MORE EPIC TALES OF OUR TIME.

it is not always about the happy ending.  it about a fitting ending

Sorry had to say it

I'm not mad that its not a "happy ending" I'm mad that the ending broke the narrative cohesion of the entire story and broke the suspension of dis-belief for many..... go read some of the more epic tales of our time again, their endings had narrative cohesion that kept the player emerssed in their world and did not snap the suspension dis-belief of people like a twig.... and make people pick apart their whole entire world they created.

Or to put it another way. Bioware has been pouring honey into our lives and it was sweet. ME1, 2 and 3 is sweet. Yep ME3 is sweet, there is no question that it is a worthwhile addition to the ME trilogy....... NARRATIVE WISE...... except for the last 10 minutes.

The last 10 mintues feels like whoever wrote the endings went on a lunch break and the coffee boy walked in and quickly scribbled in something they thought would be awesome. But the narrative quality just isn't there. The plot holes appear and then expand and keep expanding till what should have been a climax ends in the most unsatisfying way.

I stress that I do not say that Shepard should live. If the story demands his death then fine. But his death is not handled with the same narrative cohesion as his life we have witnessed. The result is a story that we remember more for the end and not the journey. The whjole point of the ME trilogy is stop the Reapers, save the galaxy. Along the way we may or may not have chopped bits of the galaxy up to save the rest of it, but the endings, while clearly open to interpretation, do not resolve the inumerable questions that result from what should have been a clear cut Stop The Reapers Win/Lose scenario.

A few of those questions? Are we killing the Geth, the Quarians and biotic impanted people by choosing destroy.

Seeing as the Reapers cannot be controlled as we have been told...... repeatedly, on and off for 80 hours plus, over 3 games..... can we really control the Reapers?
Should we trust this information based on a 10 minute conversation with some Star Kid who we have no reason to believe over our trusted comrades?

Why does Shepard stop being the driving force of the story in the last 10 minutes as the catalyst essentially takes over the role and info dumps what we are asked to accept as fact with little to no validation of said informatiion. If I were to suddenly become the catalyst and told Shepard that I created the Reapers to harvest all advanced organic life for the sole purpose of creating a cycle without cheese I think Shepard be a bit more demanding for up front answers that do not end with "I am significantly more advanced than you and better looking. You therefore cannot understand my motivations. Accept your cheeseless existance as I obliterate your species".

Now here's a challenge to all those who say the ending is fine. Tell us why. The anti enders keep throwing up the arguments of Narrative Cohesion. An argument that essentially stems from how a story is built, constructed and developed, using rules that have been put together to give the formula for a good story.

If your thinking stories don't have rules then...... well your sorta right. but also sorta wrong. In general when writing a sotry you give it a beginning middle end. The Beginning is the opportunity to introduce the world, the characters, and the mission. the middle is what they go through in an attempt to accomlish that mission and the end resolves the mission. Masters of story telling can break these rules if they have a mastery of the atory telling art but introducing a new character, out of the blue with no build up to the reveal, in the ending of the story? It's rarely a thing writers can get away with.

If ME3 is 100% perfect, ending and all then at least tell us why the ending was perfect.

Modifié par Redbelle, 21 avril 2012 - 11:43 .

[OhPa2]

It's several weeks since ME3 came out and I finally played through. I've been reading the comments about the endings for weeks but kept an open mind. My thoughts now:
Being a Bronze level player on a good day, the final fight left me mentally exhausted and pissed off. I got killed so many times even after setting the difficulty to Casual. I wanted some closure, relief, satisfaction. After all this time invested; I didn't find it.
Certainly there was a feeling of desperation and likely failure which was no doubt the intent of the story. Maybe there were subliminal themes about the horror and sadness of all-out war and the destructive hypocrisy of global (galactic?) politics I understand that.
But at the end of three epics and several years of thinking about it a lot, I expect to come out feeling good about my experience. ME had that (and a killer end song). I knew at the end of ME2 that another, bigger, fight was coming but I felt good about the ending and the chance to finish things. Today felt like: That's it? We're done? What about...?

[Omen72]

No offence but since when have Bioware to a lesser extent, but mainly /EA began listening to the concerns of the fans regarding the ending?

(Apologies if other people have mentioned this but this is the first opportunity I've had to log into my Orgin account since completing the game)

To me it seems like we were promised one thing when all the pre-release advertising campaigns went out about everything we did in-game making a difference to the way the story goes and the ending, yet it simply didn't, the ending was a confusing mess that answered nothing, I mean how did the likes of Liara etc, that were on Earth suddenly on Normandy, why after everything they'd gone through would Joker just abandon Shepherd, not just him but the rest of the crew, what are the odds that of all the planets we explore over the last two games (three if you own the X-Box) that Normady would conveniently crash on a planet that sustains humans, and the other species that are on the normandy.  There is so much more that is confusing, contradictory, wrong, weird, shallow, and whatever other description you could add which apply.

And after all the complaints from fans of the game or people like me that were not fans of the game before but bought 2 in anticipation of getting 3 because it looked so good is it so difficult to understand why we feel like we got ripped off?

Because all that seems to be on the cards in an extention to the ending to further explain the ending. Still not impressed, sorry, this simply is not what we were promised when we read the pre-release game info and some hastily concocted video is hardly going to be an adequate ending for such a otherwise well constructed game.

[Graius]

@Stormsnake to the extent that it's not about a happy ending but a fitting one, I would agree. But the problem is that the end doesn't fit. It is incoherent. It's as if you got a train to Paris and ended up in Blackpool.

[Redbelle]

duffenass wrote...

Retcon everything except Tuchanka.

And the Quarian homeworld.