23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Chrome N]

sbricca wrote...

...
Although the IT  should be a good way to resolve many problems, i believe BW doesnt accept any suggestion from the fans 

well - I am a fan and will accept nothing from BW any more (i.e. buy their games)
Bioware has to understand one thing: we are not THEIR fans, we are their games' fans.

[Archonsg]

sbricca wrote...

 I dont think EC will provides the closure we ask for because it is a cinematic video which cant involve all the decision we have made during all three games......
Probably EC will show what happened in the battle during our awesome meeting with starchild, and what happens next...im sure i dont like it...

Although the IT  should be a good way to resolve many problems, i believe BW doesnt accept any suggestion from the fans 

IT itself will not resolve problems but cause more if it is NOT an attempt at IT and they do not retcon into the game a fourth choice to refuse the three INDOCTRINATION choices given by the Harbinger / AI child. Note that the common flaw in every IT scenarios that I have seen is that Shepard ACCEPTS an Indoctrination choice. 

IF however they use IT but make it so that it is an ATTEMPT at indoctrination, than, that works.

[sbricca]

Archonsg wrote...



IF however they use IT but make it so that it is an ATTEMPT at indoctrination, than, that works.

Yes, i wanted to say that  





uff....english.....why you dont speak italian!!! WE discovered America! 
eheheh

[dr888]

cindercatz wrote...

Jianni wrote...

I have made alot of points against the endings on these forums, but I can't shake the feeling they have had something planned all along. What has been happening just doesn't feel like Bioware's style. So I say again, I think there is more to this than we know. Anyone else with me on this? It all just feels wrong somehow.

Then again, this could just be hope talking. If they have had something cooking this whole time it would be a masterful stroke IMO and I don't really care who likes it. It would be brilliant and remembered for years.

Honestly, I believe there was something there originally. Then I think conflicting internal interests (don't wanna get singled out on this by corporate construing anything as an attack, not doing that..) resulted in this sort of fall off a cliff ending that shipped, which as I've said many times, I don't consider an ending at all, nor do I think it was originally concieved as the end or an end, rather a climax. I do think there was more originally there, and I think the outcry has resulted in us getting at least some of that for free when we otherwise wouldn't have. EA's CEO is on record now suggesting ways to get gamers to pay for ammo, with real money, just to make it through a match, after all. And I've read something similar just recently happened with Asura's Wrath. So yes, I think there was more. No, I don't think just shipping what we got was brilliant. Yes, I think we should be glad so many people stood up for their rights as consumers, just to get us this far. And we, all of us, should continue to do so.

Greetings; I agree with both of You. I really tried not to be biased with players' opinion before finishing ME3; now I finished it twice, each time doing all 3 endings; at first my heart went to Synthesis, since I was trying to save everyone. seeing however that it seems to change Shepard into something like a husk (as in Control)  I changed my mind. Also combining organic and synthetic life started to to sound as just creating a new Reaper generation; so- Destroy is my last choice-it seems to be the only one consinsent with Shepard story and character and does not end in his indotrinations (indicated by glowing eyes in both blue and green endings). Shepard survival is not important, I always thought he will sacrfifice himself  at the end. It is obvious that  DLC was planned. I hope, I really do, that idea of finalizing story and giving all answers via DLC -after creating mass explosion of players reviews/ ideas on ending  -   was planned  too. It would be the greatest experiment ever tried in games. I would be OK with that as long that this DLC would be FREE-in that case : hats off and  kudos !!!. If it was planned as payable or will not give closure and answers-then this is my last Bioware and EA game ever. I am not kidding. Not even Balck Ops 2. Final few minutes are bad enough as it is. I hoped for batlle for Earth with all my squaddies and allies and got creeping in ruins and fighting cheap bosses -  CoD-style (3 banshees-seriously ? ). Expanding a long game with payable  "Omega retake mission" (it will happen ;-)  ) or Overlord or LotSB (best missions in ME2) is fine with me. But charging money for ending ?!! I have Collectors version and it costs a LOT of money in my coutry (Poland) Same goes for charging for Javik (a key character in my opinion) and guns/armour in ME2. Sorry Bioware-big fails in my book. I look forward to summer then, I have 4 more characters to finish with.

[Archonsg]

dr888 wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

Jianni wrote...

I have made alot of points against the endings on these forums, but I can't shake the feeling they have had something planned all along. What has been happening just doesn't feel like Bioware's style. So I say again, I think there is more to this than we know. Anyone else with me on this? It all just feels wrong somehow.

Then again, this could just be hope talking. If they have had something cooking this whole time it would be a masterful stroke IMO and I don't really care who likes it. It would be brilliant and remembered for years.

Honestly, I believe there was something there originally. Then I think conflicting internal interests (don't wanna get singled out on this by corporate construing anything as an attack, not doing that..) resulted in this sort of fall off a cliff ending that shipped, which as I've said many times, I don't consider an ending at all, nor do I think it was originally concieved as the end or an end, rather a climax. I do think there was more originally there, and I think the outcry has resulted in us getting at least some of that for free when we otherwise wouldn't have. EA's CEO is on record now suggesting ways to get gamers to pay for ammo, with real money, just to make it through a match, after all. And I've read something similar just recently happened with Asura's Wrath. So yes, I think there was more. No, I don't think just shipping what we got was brilliant. Yes, I think we should be glad so many people stood up for their rights as consumers, just to get us this far. And we, all of us, should continue to do so.

Greetings; I agree with both of You. I really tried not to be biased with players' opinion before finishing ME3; now I finished it twice, each time doing all 3 endings; at first my heart went to Synthesis, since I was trying to save everyone. seeing however that it seems to change Shepard into something like a husk (as in Control)  I changed my mind. Also combining organic and synthetic life started to to sound as just creating a new Reaper generation; so- Destroy is my last choice-it seems to be the only one consinsent with Shepard story and character and does not end in his indotrinations (indicated by glowing eyes in both blue and green endings). Shepard survival is not important, I always thought he will sacrfifice himself  at the end. It is obvious that  DLC was planned. I hope, I really do, that idea of finalizing story and giving all answers via DLC -after creating mass explosion of players reviews/ ideas on ending  -   was planned  too. It would be the greatest experiment ever tried in games. I would be OK with that as long that this DLC would be FREE-in that case : hats off and  kudos !!!. If it was planned as payable or will not give closure and answers-then this is my last Bioware and EA game ever. I am not kidding. Not even Balck Ops 2. Final few minutes are bad enough as it is. I hoped for batlle for Earth with all my squaddies and allies and got creeping in ruins and fighting cheap bosses -  CoD-style (3 banshees-seriously ? ). Expanding a long game with payable  "Omega retake mission" (it will happen ;-)  ) or Overlord or LotSB (best missions in ME2) is fine with me. But charging money for ending ?!! I have Collectors version and it costs a LOT of money in my coutry (Poland) Same goes for charging for Javik (a key character in my opinion) and guns/armour in ME2. Sorry Bioware-big fails in my book. I look forward to summer then, I have 4 more characters to finish with.

Here is what I don't understand.
Why is it "brilliant" for a company to punk you with an incomplete product? 
You'd pay for someone to play a practical prank on you? 
Even if "IT" becomes a reality, and they retcon that whole original ending as AN ATTEMPT at indoctrination, it still meant that you paid good money for a product that wasn't complete in the first place. How is that "brilliant"? 

As I said to someone before, if you think that is a good idea, give me $50.00, I'll punch you in the eye and give you a slab of prime beef. You get your surprise, you get free dinner (incomplete as you'll need to cook it on your own) and best of all, you get to leave feeling that you paid for "brilliance"

("You" here isn't refering to anyone specific, just those who think its "Brilliant" getting a half assed product, thinking its all a hoax)

[MaxGwenesef]

Peace between Quarians and Geth, specificly when Geth primes tell they are ther to help and later Tali tells that Geth are helping Quarians rebuild their homeworld. But there are plenty of great moments...until the ending...

[cindercatz]

To the guy a few quotes up. I've said over and over, as I support IT, that rejection is the best choice and should be available. If you pick control or synthesis, however, you have to fail indoctrination. You can't choose the Reapers' path without siding with the Reapers, or else there's no consequence at all, and the whole thing becomes meaningless. Destroy at least is a "Blow it all up" option, defiance, or the " **** it" option, in a manner of speaking. I don't think it's thematically conisistent to even ME3 alone, let alone the series, but at least it's not the other two. Rejection should be there, though, and it should be the best option of the four. Now maybe an ally could pull you out of it (if your Shep does become fully indoctrinated), but it would have to be some kind of momentary heroic death thing, or you're lifting Shep past human. Everybody we've seen break full indoctrination has only done so very temporarily, and two out of three times it's been suicide. Nobody wants to see Shep repeat that motif.

IT is not only convenient, it's a great, great idea, but you have to let it play out and see the whole thing unfold. Otherwise, it's not worth doing. And if it's not worth doing, the ending can't really be fixed like it needs to. So let's please have IT, and let's see it fully play out, with full choice/consequence, troop composition recognition, EMS factoring, and the full range of possible epilogues, happy little blue children to heroic sacrifice to victorious martyr to tragic witness. "My Shepard dies" should not be a simple choice. It should be a consequence for a choice you might very well make in good faith, or else it has no significance, like letting anybody die in ME2 had no significance, because you simply had to choose to let it happen or else it wouldn't. That's why both my Sheps had all survivors, because I can't fathom a Shepard intentionally getting a squadmate killed, not even out of willful negligence.

dr888 wrote...

Greetings; I agree with both of You. I really tried not to be biased with players' opinion before finishing ME3; now I finished it twice, each time doing all 3 endings; at first my heart went to Synthesis, since I was trying to save everyone. seeing however that it seems to change Shepard into something like a husk (as in Control)  I changed my mind. Also combining organic and synthetic life started to to sound as just creating a new Reaper generation; so- Destroy is my last choice-it seems to be the only one consinsent with Shepard story and character and does not end in his indotrinations (indicated by glowing eyes in both blue and green endings). Shepard survival is not important, I always thought he will sacrfifice himself  at the end. It is obvious that  DLC was planned. I hope, I really do, that idea of finalizing story and giving all answers via DLC -after creating mass explosion of players reviews/ ideas on ending  -   was planned  too. It would be the greatest experiment ever tried in games. I would be OK with that as long that this DLC would be FREE-in that case : hats off and  kudos !!!. If it was planned as payable or will not give closure and answers-then this is my last Bioware and EA game ever. I am not kidding. Not even Balck Ops 2. Final few minutes are bad enough as it is. I hoped for batlle for Earth with all my squaddies and allies and got creeping in ruins and fighting cheap bosses -  CoD-style (3 banshees-seriously ? ). Expanding a long game with payable  "Omega retake mission" (it will happen ;-)  ) or Overlord or LotSB (best missions in ME2) is fine with me. But charging money for ending ?!! I have Collectors version and it costs a LOT of money in my coutry (Poland) Same goes for charging for Javik (a key character in my opinion) and guns/armour in ME2. Sorry Bioware-big fails in my book. I look forward to summer then, I have 4 more characters to finish with.

Even destroy is inconsistent with at least one of my two Sheps, but the other two are totally antithetical, so it's all I've got. :-/

I've already pretty much quit buying EA games. It's just BioWare I still support, pretty much, but the business trends the last few years aren't helping to keep me invested. I'm personally not thrilled with the whole thing, because a lot of people either don't have access to the DLC, they'll already have abandoned the game and they'll miss it, some decision about future games or whatever might color it in such a way as to prevent its satisfactory completion, and I seriously doubt it was always supposed to be free, at least from EA's end. That's not how that company likes to do business. If they do muck it up, I'll have trouble sticking with it. If they pull that with their next game after they should have learned better for it this time, or if they had overcharged for this end dlc, then I'm probably done supporting the company. I basically paid $80 for an incomplete game. That's how I look at it. If I had forgone all the gameplay bits from the collector's edition (fun weapons, armor sets, which are important to me from a gameplay variety standpoint, something I had major problems with ME2 and DA2), and I'd instead bought it off the wrack and then had to download Javik (which is a major deal), I'd have been paying $70 for an even less complete game. Other than the end, it's one of my favorite games, great game, but I'm sick of supporting bad business practices designed to nickel and dime me or undercut my position as a consumer. EA, I hope, learns something positive from this.

Modifié par cindercatz, 26 avril 2012 - 11:44 .

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...


IT itself will not resolve problems but cause more if it is NOT an attempt at IT and they do not retcon into the game a fourth choice to refuse the three INDOCTRINATION choices given by the Harbinger / AI child. Note that the common flaw in every IT scenarios that I have seen is that Shepard ACCEPTS an Indoctrination choice. 

IF however they use IT but make it so that it is an ATTEMPT at indoctrination, than, that works.

This is exactly it.  Full indoctrination would taint Shepard.  As it is, many had questions and concerns along the way about who was controlling Shepard.

Any "true" ending that involved IT would need to allow for a rejection of the false choices presented by the vid kid.  I see that as something that could play out as causing a 1+1=3 kind of equation, something that would make no sense to whatever program is running things.  If we are to accept that this "program" believes the 3 choices given are logical choices, then a rejection would be something that makes no sense.

One other inconsistency in the idea of these 3 choices is that all along for many millenia, this program that runs the Reapers has stuck to one scenario-blah blah blah destroy organics.  It never evolved or changed or learned of a different way.  But, in 5 minutes it learned it could create 3 alternate "choices", all just as unreasonable and illogical as the initial one choice.  It did (if real) prove however that it had the potential to learn, so it is amazing that in the relatively short lifespan of the Geth, they evolved in a huge way.

As to how this ties into IT, it goes back to the fact that a wrench (rejection) in the god in the machine could cause it to go totally off the rails.  It may be a very powerful program, but it appears to be a pretty rudimentary one.

The "choices" given could just as easily be used as a way to see just what someone given the choice would pick.  It never gave anyone a choice before, but this time it might have wanted to learn.  It would at least have been nice if we had to have the 3 choices, if Shepard could have turned around and refused to make one.  End of test.

[Tonymac]

I am not so sure I like the idea of just a DLC.

Look - there is only so much you can do with a turd. Brown sugar and maple syrup? Its still a turd. No matter how much frilly letuce and expensive home made bread you heap on, its still just not going to work. There is only so much waxing and polishing that can be done before people look at it, smell it, and walk away.

Bioware/EA needs to get a grip. Step one - recognize and realize that the ending sucks. Its a heaping sloppy stinking pile of terdsauce. Fix it. Do not try to 'add to it' like we are dumb and do not understand - do not polish the terd. Just do it right like you know you should have. Learn the lessons that you apparently had right in ME2: higher EMS = better outcome. In ME2 I could go on a suicide mission and not lose a single soul - IF I did all of the side missions, loyalty quests, got the best upgrades and did my part preparing my ship and crew for the attack on the Collector base. ME2 had the right idea. I could tailor my ending to how I wanted it to go - from loss of all but EDI and Joker to the loss of no one. THATS what it means to have your choices matter! Not some Red, Green, or Blue terdsouffle.

This ME3 idea of - "No matter what you do everything is FUBAR, no matter your Galactical Readiness" is pretty much horrible. Why have Galactic Readiness and EMS if it doesn't matter at all? Its a sham, just like this game is. - and just like the promisses that were made to us. Since Bioware/EA does not care about its fans or producing quality merchandise, I shall go on about my business with that in mind. Its one thing to make a mistake - and its another thing entirely to own it. They refuse to own it, so I guess that means fans don't count.

[Disco Shep]

Archonsg wrote...

IT itself will not resolve problems but cause more if it is NOT an attempt at IT and they do not retcon into the game a fourth choice to refuse the three INDOCTRINATION choices given by the Harbinger / AI child. Note that the common flaw in every IT scenarios that I have seen is that Shepard ACCEPTS an Indoctrination choice. 

IF however they use IT but make it so that it is an ATTEMPT at indoctrination, than, that works.

My main problem with IT is that even though it is seemingly the only option to make sense of the smashed-logic ending as it stands, it also means regardless of whether you break indoctrination or not, then the Reapers are still happily out there committing Galactic genocide, and I bought this darn game to kick their collective butt!
I think it would of been 'Genius' of BW if this was just a false ending, and then went sraight into a real on-disc ending with cosmic pew pew shafting of the Reapers by dint of all hard earned assets - but if they ever intended to release real life ending as paid DLC then just... shame...
And if this is the real life ending... then even more shame...

But back to your point Archonsg - I was thinking along same lines regarding IT, but wondered if it could be expanded on in completely free all-singing-and-dancing playable EC (yeah, I know...).
So if you Destroy then Shep resists, wakes up and goes onto to stomp Reaper booty.
But if Contol/Synthesis = fail, then play small mini-game (ala Joker takes back Normandy from ME2) where you take control of LI for short while to break Shep from indoctrination, then back to the big finale.
I dunno if that is even possible, but as 'it was all a dream' is a better ending than what we have...?
(Hey, it means they don't have to change anything to make it work!)

[3DandBeyond]

Tonymac wrote...

I am not so sure I like the idea of just a DLC.

Look - there is only so much you can do with a turd. Brown sugar and maple syrup? Its still a turd. No matter how much frilly letuce and expensive home made bread you heap on, its still just not going to work. There is only so much waxing and polishing that can be done before people look at it, smell it, and walk away.

Bioware/EA needs to get a grip. Step one - recognize and realize that the ending sucks. Its a heaping sloppy stinking pile of terdsauce. Fix it. Do not try to 'add to it' like we are dumb and do not understand - do not polish the terd. Just do it right like you know you should have. Learn the lessons that you apparently had right in ME2: higher EMS = better outcome. In ME2 I could go on a suicide mission and not lose a single soul - IF I did all of the side missions, loyalty quests, got the best upgrades and did my part preparing my ship and crew for the attack on the Collector base. ME2 had the right idea. I could tailor my ending to how I wanted it to go - from loss of all but EDI and Joker to the loss of no one. THATS what it means to have your choices matter! Not some Red, Green, or Blue terdsouffle.

This ME3 idea of - "No matter what you do everything is FUBAR, no matter your Galactical Readiness" is pretty much horrible. Why have Galactic Readiness and EMS if it doesn't matter at all? Its a sham, just like this game is. - and just like the promisses that were made to us. Since Bioware/EA does not care about its fans or producing quality merchandise, I shall go on about my business with that in mind. Its one thing to make a mistake - and its another thing entirely to own it. They refuse to own it, so I guess that means fans don't count.

Very good analogy.

The only difference EMS makes is by a slight degree.  Earth vaporized.  Or Shepard gasps.  But with no context as an emotional tie in, neither of these polar opposites even matter.  The vaporization causes exactly the same reaction in the player as Shepard gasping.  It's a "WHAT???!!!!" kind of thing and then, nothing-actually it's both reactions simultaneously as if the turd smell just hit your nose. 

The thing is if Bioware had some addition to this ending that explains it or has some impact on what it all means, they have lost the opportunity to make a good turd sandwich.  Even if their explanation causes a lot of people to go, "OH, that's what they meant.  It does make some sense," it won't matter.  In my case, I now hate anything to do with that kid-it's in my head.  They would have to create the ultimate super tasty turd sandwich for me to get past my distaste.  So, while there may be some possible explanation that could make sense, there may not be a strong enough nose plug to keep me from smelling this turd even as I swallow it.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 26 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[JShepard1992]

I think the Indoctrination theory is pretty accurate after seeing the video and thinking about it that it might be correct that they make a dlc to extend it if you chose the Destroy ending and survived for which looks like you woke up. Just my opinion.
Here are other ideas for DLC to extend the game
Save the Normandy crew
Have a giant role in the ending battle to take back Earth
More extended cinematic videos for the Battle for Earth
Unlock galaxys we couldnt get to in the main game
Add another DLC character to add the Normandy crew
Add another DLC mission to help retake a another planet or help with a evacuation and it takes a unexpected turn
Will be able to visit the fleet and progress on the Crucible and get more missions from Admiral Hackett.

[sbricca]

Im reading the community manager's twitter right now:

no possibilities for IT or ending change...only A-B-C.."deeper" abc....WOW!

At this point....we can speak each other for months...they dont change idea, dont matter what the most of people, of customers, think...

[The.Example]

I don't know if anyone has thought about it this way but I'll try to explain the way I feel.

I chose the destruction of AI or whatever it's called and I was sad, because I like the Geth and Legion was a great character. I made a promise to him to have the Geth live free and have a homeworld. They even helped the Quarians build theirs again. Then I had to go back on my word.

I could have chosen the others but then I would have broken my promise to my other team mates (synthesizing everything would have stopped the Krogan from experiencing 'Woohoo' or controlling the Reapers meant that I would be come like the Illusive Man against the wishes of Ashley or Liara). So it's a poetic decision, but something morally seems wrong to betray people like that, specially after what we've been through.

It's like developing a brilliant game series and getting a huge fan base and being faithful to them, then your parent company disbanding you after you single-handedly sold consoles. I'm looking at you Microsoft.

Anyway.

The only thing apart from that is the future.

So all the Mass Effect Relays are destroy. I don't know too much about the Lore so I don't know how of many races that had warp (or whatever) technology like the Mass Effect Relays. But wouldn't this leave a lot of races on Earth? Imagine Turians, Asari, Krogans (without 'Woohoo' - insert sexual tension here) and other races including humans on a planet littered with Geth and Reaper shells.

Sure they could build ships and stuff but really ... Famine, hunger, cross-species diseases, confined racial tension, potential genocide, over use of resources ... It's a horrible way to be. The Earth would be crippled severely.

Loved ones on homeworlds unable to see father, mothers, sisters and brothers again. Turians trapped on their moon, unable to hold their children who are only a ship (that was disabled after the Relay explosion) ride away.

The galaxy afterwards would be a sad and isolated place. But it is 'Art'.

Anyway, hope everyone looks forward to the continuation of the Mass Effect series the prequel (seeming we have no galactic future), which will probably be about the First Contact Wars where you can join Anderson and General Williams kick some Turian posteria. Then after that Trilogy, probably a RTS then a sub-game on mobile apps then the big wonder ... Mass Effect Galaxy MMO. Can't wait.

Modifié par The.Example, 26 avril 2012 - 01:10 .

[3DandBeyond]

@TheExample,
Your last thoughts are dependent upon what happens here. We have a great hero who acts as a stand in for the player, who as yet has an unfulfilled story. Extra cutscenes to explain away the change in the reapers as villains to some cutesy wutesy pinchable vidkid ruined the game.

And to be clear, the Krogans don't want to merely do woohoo (though I love the Sims analogy), they want children.

Your options now are:
Destroy, Control, Synergy. None of these makes for a happy galaxy afterward. The galaxy is a screwed up place once you make a choice. This makes the choices stupid.

Beyond this, Joker's and your teammate's actions and ability to magically transport to the Normandy from London, makes no sense.

The ultra wonderful, happy moment in the game is without question one of the stupidest, but it's one that many hold onto as having some promise. It's the gasp heard 'round the world. Shepard gasps. But Shepard is in a pile of debris (apparently from the Citadel) in London. I'm pretty sure this is all but impossible to achieve easily, but it's the only thing many of us can hold onto that might mean Bioware had something else in mind.

Other incongruities are grasped onto as well because they do not fit in with this game's real reality so that's why there are so many indoctrination theory adherents. The mind tries to make sense of things.

[The.Example]

@3DandBeyond
I guess sterility doesn't stop 'Woohoo'. I get the point though. Personally, I was stunned at the end and then I started thinking about the future of the Mass Effect universe and even though it's a game, I feel sorry for the characters. Soldiers stand side-by-side with the commanding officer, only to be betrayed by him because of 'options'.

The galaxy afterwards would harbour resentment to humans because lets face it, no on else knew what the options were. Shepard didn't radio in a say 'Hey guys, I've got a moral dilemma here and I need some advice.'

Joker and others would be on that planet thinking, 'This wasn't part of the plan. Shepard said we'd be all good. Did he *INSERT FRENCH WORD* up? Boy, did we get completely woohoo'd.'

With all the races stranded on Earth, I wouldn't b surprized if they start hunting humans to enact revenge. Then Shepard comes out of the debris ... ??? How does he explain this to everyone? He can't just say, 'They made me do it' and all is forgiven. Try that in court and see what happens; and with no Citadel, Reapers or evidence to support him, he would be completely woohoo'd.

No amount of biotics is going to help him. Maybe Mass Effect Adventures (Point 'N' Click) will come out where you have to prove his innocence.

[3DandBeyond]

sbricca wrote...

Im reading the community manager's twitter right now:

no possibilities for IT or ending change...only A-B-C.."deeper" abc....WOW!

At this point....we can speak each other for months...they dont change idea, dont matter what the most of people, of customers, think...

That twitter feed indicates they are in a state of denial.  No insult intended, but it seems to say that they don't think there's any overwhelming dislike of the ending over at EA/Bioware.  However, if you just take a look at thread topics on this site, there are not many that have been created to say the game just fulfilled our every Mass Effect desire.

If Bioware and EA can completely ignore what even those that spin in a literary world are saying then they have gotten their fingers stuck in their ears, their eyes, and up their assets.  I'd like this not to be true.

Greater literary minds (those that criique literary works in academia or as their career in other literary institutions) all say the ending does not follow good story structure.  The ending disregards established ideas within the games themselves.  The ending is incoherent, not because it wasn't explained with enough cutscenes, but because it is basically nonsense.

They have heroes turning tail and running.  They have the main hero robotically choose who to perpetrate genocide upon.  They have the Reapers drop down to second class bad guy status, giving way to a see-through (ugh) character that I hate, not because he wants to kill organics, but because he sucks.  I have no emotional connection to this vid kid.  He isn't a foe, he's not a friend, he's annoying.  They have ABC choices.  You actually don't have any real choice, because none of these wins the game.  Ok, so maybe they want you to feel there's no way to win.  Well, then they have been playing a different game than I have.  My Shepard does want to win.  I want to win.  I don't want to be left with some stupid, arbitrary decision of the lesser of 3 evils.  They are all equally bad.  I want a chance to win and I want just as much the chance to really lose.

I mean no insult or assault on the young lady that has that twitter feed, but Bioware people need to stop focusing on the methods of some of their detractors and start paying attention to the message.  You want love, you give love.  You want hate, you already know what to do.  No one likes the silent treatment.  No one likes to be told "I don't like your tone of voice".  Fans (and understand this word fully) are fanatically for you.  When you disappoint, they are surprised, upset, and sometimes just lost.  If you continually show them the door, they will leave.  If, however, you disregard the manner of expression, but try to fully understand the reasons behind it and indicate that you do understand them, you will do yourself a real favor.

I do think they just don't "get" how far removed the "3" choice ending is from all the expressions of fan love for this series-the fan videos that are not about the ending and even those that are, the alternate endings people have tried to work out. 

The main problem here is that in order for us to believe Bioware is listening and has heard, Bioware would need to say why we are wrong in what we are thinking.  Start a real discussion.  Unfortunately, I think they view all of our comments as spam.

As a business owner, I do myself a real disservice if I don't read all the comments that come my way.  Of course, I know it's hard for Bioware to do this and I get far fewer comments, but...they need to read things that they may at first find hard to read.  Criticism.  It helps one to grow.  It helps companies to become informed and to adapt. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 26 avril 2012 - 02:11 .

[3DandBeyond]

The.Example wrote...

@3DandBeyond
I guess sterility doesn't stop 'Woohoo'. I get the point though. Personally, I was stunned at the end and then I started thinking about the future of the Mass Effect universe and even though it's a game, I feel sorry for the characters. Soldiers stand side-by-side with the commanding officer, only to be betrayed by him because of 'options'.

The galaxy afterwards would harbour resentment to humans because lets face it, no on else knew what the options were. Shepard didn't radio in a say 'Hey guys, I've got a moral dilemma here and I need some advice.'

Joker and others would be on that planet thinking, 'This wasn't part of the plan. Shepard said we'd be all good. Did he *INSERT FRENCH WORD* up? Boy, did we get completely woohoo'd.'

With all the races stranded on Earth, I wouldn't b surprized if they start hunting humans to enact revenge. Then Shepard comes out of the debris ... ??? How does he explain this to everyone? He can't just say, 'They made me do it' and all is forgiven. Try that in court and see what happens; and with no Citadel, Reapers or evidence to support him, he would be completely woohoo'd.

No amount of biotics is going to help him. Maybe Mass Effect Adventures (Point 'N' Click) will come out where you have to prove his innocence.

Kind of a horrible way to trash and make futile the life and character that you helped shape along the way.  I can't reconcile this with my amazement that my Shepard had freckles or that she at least frowned at tough decisions.  I can't put any of this together and make some profound connection with previous circumstances.  Shepard never did things without a reason.  It haunts her.  Legion's voice haunts her. No way, never, ever could she just not stop to consider this.  If you choose Synergy, you put the lie to what EDI and Joker have built.  No way.

And these soldiers that were standing shoulder to shoulder with Shepard (at least one of them) ends up on the Normandy on that jungle world.  Ok, yeah right.  It'd be more logical if that meant they were dead, but then the game already ends on such a depressing note, let's just make it even worse.  I, for one, do not want depressing.  The whole freaking world is so damn depressing.  I don't play a game to get that.  I can walk out my front door for it or watch the News.  I don't mind a sad possibility, but I want context and completion.  And I want that for both a happy and a sad ending possibility.  Oh, and I want logic to return and some real sense and a good story line and......

[feliciano2040]

3DandBeyond wrote...

That twitter feed indicates they are in a state of denial.  No insult intended, but it seems to say that they don't think there's any overwhelming dislike of the ending over at EA/Bioware.  However, if you just take a look at thread topics on this site, there are not many that have been created to say the game just fulfilled our every Mass Effect desire.

And what the hell are the developers at Bioware supposed to be ? Your servants ? Get over yourself.

[3DandBeyond]

feliciano2040 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

That twitter feed indicates they are in a state of denial.  No insult intended, but it seems to say that they don't think there's any overwhelming dislike of the ending over at EA/Bioware.  However, if you just take a look at thread topics on this site, there are not many that have been created to say the game just fulfilled our every Mass Effect desire.

And what the hell are the developers at Bioware supposed to be ? Your servants ? Get over yourself.

I fail to see where I have ever suggested they are my servants.  I've never indicated they have to do anything.  I've suggested that it is good business that they do some things, namely that they at least indicate they understand the issues fans have brought up.  They are a business.  They want to make money.  They do want to make products people will buy and like.  That is what decides what they should do.  It does not mean they let fans decide everything or even anything.  But, fans mean money and just ignoring them is like throwing away money.  Not good for business.

But, if I want to sell cookies, and I want to sell a lot of them, I don't make salty fish cookies.  If I try to sell salty fish cookies as if they are Oreos, and my fans that liked my chocolate chip cookies (that I no longer make) say they don't like the fish ones, I at least should listen and should say, "I understand you don't like the cookies because they taste salty and they are fishy, but...fish is better for you than sugar and chocolate."  If my only response to my cookie fans is that I make cookies the way I want to make cookies, I have only myself to blame over the responses I get to this.

Please, add something constructive to the discussion and refrain from just attacking people. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 26 avril 2012 - 02:42 .

[feliciano2040]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I fail to see where I have ever suggested they are my servants.  I've never indicated they have to do anything.  I've suggested that it is good business that they do some things, namely that they at least indicate they understand the issues fans have brought up.  They are a business.  They want to make money.  They do want to make products people will buy and like.  That is what decides what they should do.  It does not mean they let fans decide everything or even anything.  But, fans mean money and just ignoring them is like throwing away money.  Not good for business.

So what if they say "No, we made enough business, we want to rest now", is there anything wrong with that ?

3DandBeyond wrote...But, if I want to sell cookies, and I want to sell a lot of them, I don't make salty fish cookies.  If I try to sell salty fish cookies as if they are Oreos, and my fans that liked my chocolate chip cookies (that I no longer make) say they don't like the fish ones, I at least should listen and should say, "I understand you don't like the cookies because they taste salty and they are fishy, but...fish is better for you than sugar and chocolate."  If my only response to my cookie fans is that I make cookies the way I want to make cookies, I have only myself to blame over the responses I get to this.

Please, add something constructive to the discussion and refrain from just attacking people.

Get. Over. Yourself.

You were promised chocolate cookies, you were given chocolate cookies, just because it doesn't have strawberry-flavored chips, sugar-snow topping and a milkshake on the side doesn't mean you were deceived, they made a product that is only theirs to make however they want to, they don't have to pander to any "desire" you might have.

[MtOMajorCat0311]

3DandBeyond wrote...

feliciano2040 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

That twitter feed indicates they are in a state of denial.  No insult intended, but it seems to say that they don't think there's any overwhelming dislike of the ending over at EA/Bioware.  However, if you just take a look at thread topics on this site, there are not many that have been created to say the game just fulfilled our every Mass Effect desire.

And what the hell are the developers at Bioware supposed to be ? Your servants ? Get over yourself.

I fail to see where I have ever suggested they are my servants.  I've never indicated they have to do anything.  I've suggested that it is good business that they do some things, namely that they at least indicate they understand the issues fans have brought up.  They are a business.  They want to make money.  They do want to make products people will buy and like.  That is what decides what they should do.  It does not mean they let fans decide everything or even anything.  But, fans mean money and just ignoring them is like throwing away money.  Not good for business.

But, if I want to sell cookies, and I want to sell a lot of them, I don't make salty fish cookies.  If I try to sell salty fish cookies as if they are Oreos, and my fans that liked my chocolate chip cookies (that I no longer make) say they don't like the fish ones, I at least should listen and should say, "I understand you don't like the cookies because they taste salty and they are fishy, but...fish is better for you than sugar and chocolate."  If my only response to my cookie fans is that I make cookies the way I want to make cookies, I have only myself to blame over the responses I get to this.

Please, add something constructive to the discussion and refrain from just attacking people. 

To be constructive, I would submit that 3DandBeyond voices the opinion of the overwhelming majority of die-hard ME fans.  And to some extent, as a faithful consumer of Bioware products spanning several years, I do expect them to serve their loyal fan base (who have come to expect - rightly or wrongly - a bit more from Bioware than other game developers).  Sorry, they set their own bar high and I expect them to continue to "reach" for it.

Modifié par MtOMajorCat0311, 26 avril 2012 - 03:14 .

[LiarasShield]

feliciano2040 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I fail to see where I have ever suggested they are my servants.  I've never indicated they have to do anything.  I've suggested that it is good business that they do some things, namely that they at least indicate they understand the issues fans have brought up.  They are a business.  They want to make money.  They do want to make products people will buy and like.  That is what decides what they should do.  It does not mean they let fans decide everything or even anything.  But, fans mean money and just ignoring them is like throwing away money.  Not good for business.

So what if they say "No, we made enough business, we want to rest now", is there anything wrong with that ?

3DandBeyond wrote...But, if I want to sell cookies, and I want to sell a lot of them, I don't make salty fish cookies.  If I try to sell salty fish cookies as if they are Oreos, and my fans that liked my chocolate chip cookies (that I no longer make) say they don't like the fish ones, I at least should listen and should say, "I understand you don't like the cookies because they taste salty and they are fishy, but...fish is better for you than sugar and chocolate."  If my only response to my cookie fans is that I make cookies the way I want to make cookies, I have only myself to blame over the responses I get to this.

Please, add something constructive to the discussion and refrain from just attacking people.

Get. Over. Yourself.

You were promised chocolate cookies, you were given chocolate cookies, just because it doesn't have strawberry-flavored chips, sugar-snow topping and a milkshake on the side doesn't mean you were deceived, they made a product that is only theirs to make however they want to, they don't have to pander to any "desire" you might have.

I Can tell already that your one of those people who don't listen to reason or see why certain people may have some decent reasons for not liking the  ending and you're just attacking people instead of hearing them out if you like the ending then why are you here this thread in specificly for people who don't like the ending and may explain some of their reasons for not liking it in their posts if you love the ending that is fine but if you're only gonna attack people perhaps you should leave before you get reported

Modifié par LiarasShield, 26 avril 2012 - 03:40 .

[3DandBeyond]

feliciano2040 wrote...


So what if they say "No, we made enough business, we want to rest now", is there anything wrong with that ?

Well that's not exactly a profitable business model.  I suggested that it isn't.  It's up to them how to run their business, but treating diehard fans disrespectfully is not the way to encourage them to return.  And it is diehard fans that remain loyal and will buy your stuff.  You never, ever, ever take them for granted.

feliciano2040 wrote...
Get. Over. Yourself.

You were promised chocolate cookies, you were given chocolate cookies, just because it doesn't have strawberry-flavored chips, sugar-snow topping and a milkshake on the side doesn't mean you were deceived, they made a product that is only theirs to make however they want to, they don't have to pander to any "desire" you might have.

Actually, no we were deceived.  Not my fault if some fail to pay attention.  Promised no ABC ending-got an ABC ending.  Promised ending would explain everything-got an incongruous, slapped on ending that explains exactly nothing.  Promised ending would be different from player to player, no 2 endings would be alike-got the same basic ending no matter how different our choices along 3 games.  Implicitly promised (due to the precedence set in 2.99 games that the ending would follow the story set before it-got, an ending that does not fit with the rest of 2.99 games.

And yes, you are right, they have every right to choose and stick with their ending.  It's theirs to make, but when you make something you form a relationship with those that will buy what you want to sell.  If you want to sell more things to them, you make something that makes sense to them and try to fit it within your own vision.  I can't sell something just because I like it.  I need an audience that likes it, too.  An author that wants to make money does not write books to sell them to an audience of one.  Stephen King writes books at an 8th grade reading level.  Not because he doesn't know bigger words, but because he wants the largest audience to buy them.  It's not dumbing down, it's just appealing to the type of read an audience wants for his genre.  I doubt that he'd say his books don't sit within his artistic vision.

I don't know why you have such an axe to grind, but your acrimony speaks more about your issues than it does about mine.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 26 avril 2012 - 04:01 .