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[Austin N]

So, I haven't been at these boards for two weeks. Any interesting revelations while I was gone?

[Eryri]

Benchpress610 wrote...

I posted this yesterday. I'm posting again so more people from this thread have the opportunity to see it so they can go and make thieir opinoin count.

Benchpress610 wrote...

I don't know if this has been posted before, but there is a survey going on since yesterday about the whole ME3 experience including the ending. It’s a very comprehensive survey. I think we should make our opinion count. Here are the links.
 
BSN: http://social.biowar...ndex/11680086/1
 
Direct link: http://www.masseffec...ts--id-974.html
 
Go vote

Just submitted my survey.

While I'm here I'd like to draw people's attention to the Switch on, Switch off campaign this weekend, although I'm sure most of you are already aware of it. There's a link to the thread in my signature. I think it seems a good way to show Bioware that we would be happily playing ME3 and any forthcoming DLC (fingers crossed for taking back Omega with Aria), were it not for the fact that the current ending destroys the game's replayability. I just thought it seemed a constructive means to let them know our opinion in a non-acrimonious way.

Modifié par Eryri, 27 avril 2012 - 07:24 .

[Redbelle]

Austin N wrote...

So, I haven't been at these boards for two weeks. Any interesting revelations while I was gone?

Big welcome to our PS3 Mass Effect Shepard's in arms as they are included in the event weekends.

This weekend should be fun as not only do we have to kill 1 miiiiiiiillioooooooon phantoms on gold settings...... but the turn on ME on Saturday, Turn off ME on Sunday player campaign is also scheduled.

The cycle of, constructive critisism > artistic integrity has produced more insight into why the ending leaves some feeling like they died a little bit inside. More words to express feelings, never a bad thing

And I've finally bricked up a hole my roof.

2 weeks well spent. How about you?

[Austin N]

Redbelle wrote...

Austin N wrote...

So, I haven't been at these boards for two weeks. Any interesting revelations while I was gone?

Big welcome to our PS3 Mass Effect Shepard's in arms as they are included in the event weekends.

This weekend should be fun as not only do we have to kill 1 miiiiiiiillioooooooon phantoms on gold settings...... but the turn on ME on Saturday, Turn off ME on Sunday player campaign is also scheduled.

The cycle of, constructive critisism > artistic integrity has produced more insight into why the ending leaves some feeling like they died a little bit inside. More words to express feelings, never a bad thing

And I've finally bricked up a hole my roof.

2 weeks well spent. How about you?

I saw the Angry One say something about the pro-enders going silent after finding out there were some big screw ups with the Priority: Earth mission. What's that about?

[Redbelle]

Oooh, OOOOH, I wanna take back Omega! Aria get's so little to do. Pllllleeeeeease let us take back Omega........... After BW admits that the ending harboured designs of gross and wanton intellectualism that left ppl confused and adrift like other stories have done, <Matrix Revolutions, I'm looking at you>

Seriously, In one of the Matrix games the Wackowski brothers halted the game and shoehorned in a video with them in bit form to explain that by choosing to die he choose choice over choicelessness.........I mean........ ok......... that's a valid msg but I was about to pound an Agent Smith into the ground and can I please get back to being an uber god with a ticking clock whose hand are 5 minutes till midnight.

The point of that little bit of waffle is that I was playing a great game and story. The gameplay and the narrative worked hand in hand to reinforce the world I was in. And then it dissolved into 2 brightly coloured bits who wanted to talk philosophy. <cries inside> Leave the high brow stuff as in game narrative. Not in game conversation that leads us nowhere.

Example. Genophage dilemma, Geth Quarian dilemma. Nowhere in that story arc did I feel a drop in story quality of the type experienced at the end. But we still tackled issues of bioweapons. The feelings that come with miscarrage. The responsibility and ethics of science. The acknoledgement of a right to life. The cost of war. How communication can yield context to understand why both sides fight. Survival guilt. All that and so....so much more. All the while making us want to journey deeper into the ME universe to see what came next without a spark of complaint that could ignite.

............yeah, and then........ well we all know what happened in the last 10 minutes....... Let us now bow our heads to Marauder Shields. He was our last best hope....... and I shot him twice.

[Redbelle]

Austin N wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Austin N wrote...

So, I haven't been at these boards for two weeks. Any interesting revelations while I was gone?

Big welcome to our PS3 Mass Effect Shepard's in arms as they are included in the event weekends.

This weekend should be fun as not only do we have to kill 1 miiiiiiiillioooooooon phantoms on gold settings...... but the turn on ME on Saturday, Turn off ME on Sunday player campaign is also scheduled.

The cycle of, constructive critisism > artistic integrity has produced more insight into why the ending leaves some feeling like they died a little bit inside. More words to express feelings, never a bad thing

And I've finally bricked up a hole my roof.

2 weeks well spent. How about you?

I saw the Angry One say something about the pro-enders going silent after finding out there were some big screw ups with the Priority: Earth mission. What's that about?

I may have missed that conversation arc. I have seen the flat texturing where dead bodies are rendered in 2d, effectively turning a graveyard area into carpet though if that helps.

[sdinc009]

Here's a link to another BSN forum that breaks down and analyzes how the Catalysts logic works. It's pretty long and there are still holes, but was put together very well and think everyone should at least read through.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10761785/1

I also went on to post my response after reading it through:

This was very well put together. However, the Catalysts logic still has some holes and the fact that much of it is based on leaked scripts and not on actual game contect makes it flimsy. Even with a sound logical explanation, it it still completely disrupts the theme, plot, and story structure of ME3. In the final scene, the Catalyst is still altering the ME series main antagonist, no longer generates a conflict within the story because the protagonist just accepts what is being told, and changes the main driving goal of the whole trilogy. It's very presence and method of introduction are counter to proper story telling which causes the ending to rapidly fall apart. Also, understanding the reasons why the antagonist does what they do weakens the dramatic elements of the story. We don't need to understand why the Catalyst or the Reapers do whatt they do. Making them a mysterious, powerful, and unknowable evil threat is a tried and tue method of creating a good antagonist. Lifting the veil and humanizing them or making us sympathize with them throws a wrench into the story mechanics. If this is going to be attempted ( which is not impossible) it needs to done somewhere in the rising or falling action NOT in the resolution and NEVER in the very final scene

[claudio]

The "IT" is the right way (a mentalist one) how we should see the end of ME3, why? :



what is the main proof of all this?:
-if you destroy a mass relay, the destruction will obliterate an entire solar sistem;

when we see this?:
-in Arrival DLC,

why the mass relay desrtuction is the main proof?:
-because if we take leterally what we see in the end, no matter what you choose during all the trilogy, everything will be epurated, not only on earth but also in the rest of the galaxy......this have clearly non-sense.

other point to support the "IT"?:
-Joker Moreau'run, how he is running trough a mass relay with your earth-squad-mates?,
an other non-sense,

so why Bioware is stil quiet about all of this?:
-because the know ectacly what they do (make people continue to speech about ME during time, until the "explanation dlc" [that i believe will confirmed the IT and make a spectacular end ]), no one of bioware will tell you how the story end until it is not end (like Blizzard policy about Starcraft plot-story),

but why bioware use this hard way before the real final?:
1) the ME3 final was leaked before the release of the game by hacker,
2) they want drawn attention and suspance about the end of our hero (Shepard and mates),
3) they want realize something more heroic at the same time than ME1 (Saren-Sovereign battle) and ME2 (Collector-Arbringer battle) all togheter,
4) They want realize something deeper for the mature-fans (and not the kids) because this trilogy was not (also) a game, but a story of sacrifice and responbilities; of honor and courage, of friendship against all the enemies like Kay Leng (=yes I laugh and claped when I stabbed him in his back for Thane! XD)....

I don't see anything strange about the "multicolor-end" because is not real, is a mind-fight....the real fight await us in the next dlc (I believe also that were not only cinematics [don't trust who tells the contrary :) ]).

my question are:
-when the DLC "truth" will be released exactly?,
-why Arbringer choose a mind fight? (maybe because he can't reach Earth on time before Shepard arrive to the conduit, or the Conduit self was a mind-trap),
-how work exactly the Crucible?

ipotesis can start now

[LiarasShield]

the thing is that the reapers never needed to be explained and showing off a new character in the resolution that is suppose to play a major role in the story isn't good espically when it isn't done well

[LiarasShield]

the broken circular logic being a main one

[Cant Planet]

LiarasShield wrote...

I just don't see why thanatos can't see a core issue espically with character perfomance and stragetic decisions since he played mass effect 2 lol

You are entirely missing the point. For some people, it's not about understanding or difference of opinion. It's about getting people upset, which is how they get their entertainment. Every angry reply entertains them, and they will say whatever they can to provoke those angry replies, whether they believe what they're saying or not.

You cannot "convince" them. You are not having the same conversation as they are. You are stating your opinion. They are saying whatever they can think of to go against your opinion, for sport. It's a game to them, and the moment you play, they win.

The only solution is to ignore them, and treat their posts like they aren't even there. But there's always someone who doesn't get that, and tries to engage them with reasoned arguments, or anger, or insults, and It Does Not Work.

It will never work.

[LiarasShield]

Well I don't see why purposely pissing off people is fun but eh perhaps you're right but eh I try to think certain issues can be resolved through good conversation

[claudio]

ah yes another little thing XD :

-imagine if the mind-attack against Shepard's mind (and his sudden "coma") was launched while he was with the membrs of the alliance command (so after 10 minutes of gameplay), when a Reapers blow up the entire Alliance room and Shepard knocked his head hard.......that means that "all the game" was just a mere dream.....so when we woke up we will see Anderson while he tell us to leave Earth and go back to the Citadel.....LOL and Shepard show us an incredolous face XD ahahaha

[LiarasShield]

shepard with wtf face because she was only in a dream as terrible as that would be I guess it would be kinda funny

[Mev186]

Also... if the Catalyst was doing this because he was afraid that Synthetics will wipe out Organics, why didn't the Reapers come back during the Quarian-Geth war when there was a real possibility that the Geth would wipe out all Organics..

[claudio]

the Catalyst is only the last jedi-mind-trick of the Arbringer, LOL A:"you will not destroy the Reapers".....Shep:"I will not destroy those cute genocide-ugly-cephalopodic-machines".....XD

Modifié par claudio, 27 avril 2012 - 10:32 .

[Redbelle]

<<< quitely gnaws on the furniture in a desperate attempt not to pose another 'Why are BW doing this to us in the name of humanity!' question......

.......And sorta failing.

[Redbelle]

claudio wrote...

the Catalyst is only the last jedi-mind-trick of the Arbringer, LOL A:"you will not destroy the Reapers".....Shep:"I will not destroy those cute genocide-ugly-cephalopodic-machines".....XD

<Waves hand>
"These are not the Reapers your looking for".

[LiarasShield]

these are not the reapers you're looking for I find that so funny lol

[claudio]

yes ! correct, but Oby says before : "you will not control our documents" XD , thank you Lucas, and Thank you Bioware ; my best moments?:
-"This is Garrus Vacarian and this is my best place in Citadel".....
-Miranda on the bed (Thank you Yvonne Strahovski to be alive ),
-Mordin sacrifice,
-Grunt badass Rackni-fight,
-Thane and Jack....,
-Joker and IDA,
-Tali and Legion.....,
Thank you for this beautiful game ^^ (yes I was tricked with syntesis LOL, then I restart and take destruction [and kill this bastard-gosthly-reaperchild]) XD

[claudio]

a Yes dont forget the Great Admiral Steven Hackett of the 5th Alliance Fleet (great oration in ME3) and the first real human spectre David Anderson (also the first who punch Udina's face during ME1 XD)

Modifié par claudio, 27 avril 2012 - 10:53 .

[feliciano2040]

SkaldFish wrote...

Then you have been very selective in your reading.

I'm relatively new here, still, so far, the reality is that the majority of people dismiss the idea frontally, instead of working their neurons as a healthy, intellectualy stimulated person would do, sadly, that is our reality as videogamers.

We are an inmature audience.

SkaldFish wrote... 

Most of these questions have been discussed at length on many threads. Why? The very fact that we are suddenly presented, in the final minutes of the narrative, with a character about whom we have to ask such foundational questions, is one of the things that makes the ending so egregious. Mistaking clumsy execution for profundity does not magically transform it into such.

So, when you ask yourself these questions, what are your answers, and from where do they come?

I can hardly believe how there's anything wrong with introducing a new character at the final moments of a story, you could PERHAPS have an argument by saying one theme was re-prioritized over another one, which is a legitimate complaint.

The fact that many people say he is an antagonist is missing the point by light-years.

As to how I answer those questions ? Well, many of those I haven't answered myself, but there's also another point missed by the retakers, something isn't stupid simply because I haven't grasped it's meaning yet.

[chomicze]

:feliciano2040

One short question, ME3 is only game from the series, that you've played?

[feliciano2040]

chomicze wrote...

:feliciano2040

One short question, ME3 is only game from the series, that you've played?

Not at all friend, been "here" since the very first Mass Effect.

[Benchpress610]

Cant Planet wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I just don't see why thanatos can't see a core issue espically with character perfomance and stragetic decisions since he played mass effect 2 lol

You are entirely missing the point. For some people, it's not about understanding or difference of opinion. It's about getting people upset, which is how they get their entertainment. Every angry reply entertains them, and they will say whatever they can to provoke those angry replies, whether they believe what they're saying or not.

You cannot "convince" them. You are not having the same conversation as they are. You are stating your opinion. They are saying whatever they can think of to go against your opinion, for sport. It's a game to them, and the moment you play, they win.

The only solution is to ignore them, and treat their posts like they aren't even there. But there's always someone who doesn't get that, and tries to engage them with reasoned arguments, or anger, or insults, and It Does Not Work.

It will never work.

^^^This....you sir/ma'am are wise beyond your years.