23455 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

feliciano2040 wrote...

I'm relatively new here, still, so far, the reality is that the majority of people dismiss the idea frontally, instead of working their neurons as a healthy, intellectualy stimulated person would do, sadly, that is our reality as videogamers.

We are an inmature audience.

Please speak for yourself.

And really take the time to look through the different threads. 

My neurons get a workout on a daily basis whether I want them to or not.  And, no one, I repeat no one has ever denied that such a story could have some great, thoughty, lively debate.  There are some brilliant moments that could test the soul and heart as well as the frontal lobe and all other gray matter combined throughout these games.  The ending poses no real questions because it is based on flawed logic using some other scientific ramblings in order to sound intelligent.  In short, there is not enough there to provide fodder for a reasoned, rational debate, and what is there is a very juvenile interpretation of some worst case scenario some scientists play with in their heads.  It's the question of pandora's box.  Does technology and scientific advancement go too far?  The way it's interpreted in the game at the end is ridiculous, especially because of other truly brilliant moments where there were examples that answer that question with a yes and then a no.  The Geth, the Genophage.

feliciano2040 wrote...
I can hardly believe how there's anything wrong with introducing a new character at the final moments of a story, you could PERHAPS have an argument by saying one theme was re-prioritized over another one, which is a legitimate complaint.

The fact that many people say he is an antagonist is missing the point by light-years.

As to how I answer those questions ? Well, many of those I haven't answered myself, but there's also another point missed by the retakers, something isn't stupid simply because I haven't grasped it's meaning yet.

And that's just what I want at the end of 3 games in a video game series.  I want an ending I don't understand.  Especially in a game about evil that wants to eat people, romance, great friends, questions that rock your soul, and all.  I really want it to end with me wondering what the frick just happened.  Because that is the best way for all stories to end.  And I don't want it to make sense no matter how many times I replay the ending because that's just how I think great games should end.  Give me just enough info to wonder what the hell it was supposed to mean but not enough to form a good hypothesis, and certainly not enough to understand why on earth it was tacked onto this great game. 

I often wonder just what game people that like the ending have been playing. 

Do you read books?  Have you studied form and function in literature?  Do you understand that the introduction of this glow boy in the last ten minutes of the game breaks some cardinal rules of good story-telling.  It makes no difference if he is the protagonist or antagonist or some minor character (which he is not).  In order for people to buy what he's selling they must have some emotional investment in him. 

We may hate him, but only because he's there and is non-sensical and all.  If he were the antagonist (which the reapers are), you would have hatred and fear as your emotional investment.  Protagonist-you get all warm and fuzzy.  In short you have to care about the kid in order to accept him into the story.  In order to care, you have to form some relationship with him based upon interaction.  You know he talks, you talk, or other people talk.  Basically, this star kid talks, you listen, you toddle off to do something for no coherent reason.  Not much to form a relationship with there.  And, this kid controls the Reapers who have been turning people into human paste.  If that doesn't make him the antagonist, I don't know what he'd have to do to be one.

I can only say it'd be like watching or reading Harry Potter books and seeing Valdemort as the epitome of evil and all and expecting to fight him and then in the last ten pages of the very last book, some guy dressed in a chef's outfit pops out and says he's been in control of Valdemort all along.  And you never deal with Valdemort directly again in the story.  You toddle off to pick one of 3 choices in how to deal with him.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 28 avril 2012 - 06:30 .

[3DandBeyond]

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...

@Redbell

Agree whole heartedly. Anyone whose ever taken even a high-school level course in creative writing knows that Bioware violated the rules of writing by introducing the "true villian" (after all, didn't we all think that Harbinger/Sovereign, the named Reapers were the true enemy?) at the last second of the game in what boiled down to the biggest WTF moment in my gaming career.

The thing I feel most insulted by however is how no matter how prepared you are going into battle, Shepard's death is shoved down your throat. I'm supposed to believe that a guy/gal who, for all intents and purposes, could litterally dive into Hell itself and come back alive would get killed this easily? No.

And then theres all the continuity and logic mistakes made that this fine gent summed up perfectly:
in3g&index=8&feature=plpp_video

But what I object to most of all is being robbed of the expected satisfaction of trouncing the Reapers into oblivion and "watching the expression on Harbingers face" (metaphorically of course) as he was defeated by "insects". To watch as Shepard goes John McClaine on Harbinger's metallic hide.

As it stands there wasnt even remotely a victory no matter what ending you pick because the universe still ends up going to hell, the reapers get the last laugh and if anyone did survive the stranded fleet would destroy eachother in seconds fighting over the remains of Earth.

So Bioware, I'm waiting for that happy ending....

There is a great thread with a critique of the ending and all by a literary professor (don't have the link right now sorry) as well as agreement in the thread from another literary professor.  And the California Literary Review.  They are all in agreement with what many of us learned in high school (I actually had a great teacher in 8th grade that taught us story structure and had it reinforced in high school and college).  This ending breaks all the rules.  Not only does it introduce a new "villain" in the last moments, but it introduces a new explanation for it all.  And great stories just seamlessly flow along the storyline with characters you begin to know and motivations that you understand.  You hold onto both character and plot line throughout the story.  In a real way good stories are like roller coasters. It's a ride you are on.  At the end of this one, you fell off the ride.  Actually, you got pushed off.

[Archonsg]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I can only say it'd be like watching or reading Harry Potter books and seeing Valdemort as the epitome of evil and all and expecting to fight him and then in the last ten pages of the very last book, some guy dressed in a chef's outfit pops out and says he's been in control of Valdemort all along.  And you never deal with Valdemort directly again in the story.  You toddle off to pick one of 3 choices in how to deal with him.

And ....The three endings would be ;

1) Harry potter dies but becomes Valdemort, and all magic is removed from the world and everyone becomes a muggle

2) Harry potter dies, Valdemort dies 
and all magic is removed from the world and everyone becomes a muggle

3) Harry potter dies, Valdermort will have a split personality, thinking he's Harry Potter 
and all magic is removed from the world and everyone becomes a muggle 



"Artistic Integrity"

Modifié par Archonsg, 28 avril 2012 - 06:50 .

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I can only say it'd be like watching or reading Harry Potter books and seeing Valdemort as the epitome of evil and all and expecting to fight him and then in the last ten pages of the very last book, some guy dressed in a chef's outfit pops out and says he's been in control of Valdemort all along.  And you never deal with Valdemort directly again in the story.  You toddle off to pick one of 3 choices in how to deal with him.

And ....The three endings would be ;

1) Harry potter dies but becomes Valdemort, and all magic is removed from the world and everyone becomes a muggle

2) Harry potter dies, Valdemort dies 
and all magic is removed from the world and everyone becomes a muggle

3) Harry potter dies, Valdermort will have a split personality, thinking he's Harry Potter 
and all magic is removed from the world and everyone becomes a muggle 



"Artistic Integrity"

Ha ha ha!  That's it!  J K will be jealous. 

[Aylyese]

Thanatos144 wrote...

First you don't know if he did use a relay you just assume he did and second the reapers are not energy shot from citidel

 

The Normandy is running from an energy wave after the energy is shot through the Mass Relay. This is a connection. If you want to differentiate it, then you place something more into the sequence to show that they are running from energy not related to the energy that was just shot through the mass relay. 

But that itself opens up whole new questions.

How does the energy wave that does not harm humans on earth end up downing the Normandy?

Where is the rest of the fleet and why aren't they running too?

HOW did Joker walk off the crashed Normandy? No amount of good choices and war assets makes his bones any less brittle... He broke his finger on a holographic button for crying out loud! 

How is "Oh crap, Shep is dead, lets go" the same as "Crap, Shock Wave, RUN"? Or are you just making this stuff up as you go?

[Leem_0001]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Cant Planet wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I just don't see why thanatos can't see a core issue espically with character perfomance and stragetic decisions since he played mass effect 2 lol

You are entirely missing the point. For some people, it's not about understanding or difference of opinion. It's about getting people upset, which is how they get their entertainment. Every angry reply entertains them, and they will say whatever they can to provoke those angry replies, whether they believe what they're saying or not.

You cannot "convince" them. You are not having the same conversation as they are. You are stating your opinion. They are saying whatever they can think of to go against your opinion, for sport. It's a game to them, and the moment you play, they win.

The only solution is to ignore them, and treat their posts like they aren't even there. But there's always someone who doesn't get that, and tries to engage them with reasoned arguments, or anger, or insults, and It Does Not Work.

It will never work.

it is not me that pisses people off. It is that I dont act like you. Sorry but I dont keep a closed mind.

Yes you do, more so than anyone else I have seen on here, regardless of whether they are a retaker or a fan of the ending. People have given you countless reasons why they do not like the ending and why it does not make sense, yet you avoid / ignore these points and simply tell people they are wrong. About as close minded as you can get.

And dare I ask what you think the energy wave they are running from is? Because think about where they crash land - there sure as hell isn't a jungle planet with two moons in our solar system. So do you think they simply out ran a blast that was travelling faster than them, until they reached this planet, in some other solar system? Impossible. Or do you think they skipped through a relay and it was the blast from that destroyed relay that was coming towards them? If so, why skip through a relay in the first place? Why run away from the fight? They have no way of knowing if Shep is dead or not. And regardless, why would Joker and co abandon the fight that will determin if the human race would become extinct? Lose this fight and the reapers win, therefore we get harvested. I would love to hear your 'logic' to explain this. Oh, and did he make a stop off at earth to pick up your squadmates first?

Please, just give some kind of narrative logic to how all of this could have happened. You want open minded debate, then this is a chance for it. Please explain the above problems I have with the narrative and lets see what you come up with.

Modifié par Leem_0001, 28 avril 2012 - 08:42 .

[Redbelle]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I just don't see why thanatos can't see a core issue espically with character perfomance and stragetic decisions since he played mass effect 2 lol

  Oh I see your point of view about how you think charectars should have acted.....I just think your wrong. Maybe the extended cut will help you understand the decision for joker to take off or for people to leave shepard for dead. It isnt something new for them. They did it before as well.

Extended cutscence content will add more context to the scenes that do not carry the player. Joker fleeing the battlefield being one of them. I've come up with alot of explanations for why he did it...........buuuuut.....

None of my explanations are canon. It's all extrapolation based on what I know of Joker, normandy, the battle the galaxy and everything. BW should have done a better job of carrying the narrative at the end. They have carried it before with style and control of the story. The ending just feels like a rushed mess of good ideas and bad ideas that never got distilled, forged and polished like the rest of the trilogy.

[Redbelle]

On a related note to an above thread, I'd just like to address the difference between opinion and analysis.

Here's an opinion: I don't think the ending was very good.

Here's analysis: The ending introduces a new character at the end of Shepards Mass Effect story which attempts to make core and established beliefs, that the narrative reinforced over 3 games or 150 hours, suspect. The character then tries to establish new beliefs in the space of 10 minutes before Shepards story reaches it's conclusion.

Here's my justification for my opinion: I don't like the ending..... because I expected more from the master story tellers from BW.

Analysis justification: We are often told in the mass effect narrative certain things over and over again by those we have come to accept as characters and who are held with a certain regard. We are told that you cannot control the reapers, that they will control you. We have seen the evidence of this through Saren, indoctrinated cerberus personel and TIM. The statement from the Star Kid that you can control the Reapers is therefore highly suspect as the SK has not had the opportunity to establish itself as a trustworthy advisor and may therefore, through exptrapolating through all previous narrative plot logic, be lying.

My opinion is a starting point. My analysis stems from my opinion and tests said opinion to be true or false. There are those on this thread who I percieve as having used opinion to open an argument, and justified it with more opinion instead of analysis.

On a minor related note related to analysis of story plot point......

One pro-ender recently threw me a curve ball by saying that TIM's ending makes sense as all the information for what is happening occurs in Miranda's subplot ending. There is alot of information in that subplot, but I have yet to weigh up if the information, in what was made to be an optional mission dependent on Miranda's survial of ME2's suicude mission, can really be applicable to the main thrust of the A plot when it's possible to miss it out completely. If it Miranda's mission and the information on indoctrination was so critical to understanding the ending I would expect it to made part of the A plot, not a B plot.

Modifié par Redbelle, 28 avril 2012 - 09:11 .

[LiarasShield]

Again I want how well you did to decide if things went well or everybody dies like in mass effect 2 and yes I can't see the normandy abandoning all the fleets inspace when the final outcome is that if we don't defeat the reapers they will harvest or destroy our entire race but with the relays gone and all the races orbiting a dieing earth plus your crew just abandoing you and the alliance and commiting treason which I know garrius and liara probably would never do since they fought by you for the longest

Like I said earlyer I would've loved that one deleted scene from the final hours app to have stayed because your crew would've fought with till the end even if they did die better them staying true to their word then just peace out you guys are screwed so it is a shame that scene was deleted

[LiarasShield]

[claudio]

why no one replys my post? the explanation is clear with IT, all of you are speaking about something that doesn't happened (the reaper-child and ecc..) because it is in Shepard's mind; it doesen't matter what happen next (crucible fixed with the Citadel releè and the "magic-multicolor-explosion" followed by a non-sense running out of the Normandy with our earth-squadmates) beacause it was only a "dream-fight":
-blue-control=became like the Collector general,
-green-sintesis=became like Saren,
-red-destruction=break reaper-mindcontrol on Shepard, and our hero wake up with his mind intact....

why are you continue in path that obviously will bring in a non-sense speculation?

use your imagination....or......you are right now indoctrinated by Bioware!

[Benchpress610]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...

@Redbell

Agree whole heartedly. Anyone whose ever taken even a high-school level course in creative writing knows that Bioware violated the rules of writing by introducing the "true villian" (after all, didn't we all think that Harbinger/Sovereign, the named Reapers were the true enemy?) at the last second of the game in what boiled down to the biggest WTF moment in my gaming career.

The thing I feel most insulted by however is how no matter how prepared you are going into battle, Shepard's death is shoved down your throat. I'm supposed to believe that a guy/gal who, for all intents and purposes, could litterally dive into Hell itself and come back alive would get killed this easily? No.

And then theres all the continuity and logic mistakes made that this fine gent summed up perfectly:
in3g&index=8&feature=plpp_video

But what I object to most of all is being robbed of the expected satisfaction of trouncing the Reapers into oblivion and "watching the expression on Harbingers face" (metaphorically of course) as he was defeated by "insects". To watch as Shepard goes John McClaine on Harbinger's metallic hide.

As it stands there wasnt even remotely a victory no matter what ending you pick because the universe still ends up going to hell, the reapers get the last laugh and if anyone did survive the stranded fleet would destroy eachother in seconds fighting over the remains of Earth.

So Bioware, I'm waiting for that happy ending....

There is a great thread with a critique of the ending and all by a literary professor (don't have the link right now sorry) as well as agreement in the thread from another literary professor.  And the California Literary Review.  They are all in agreement with what many of us learned in high school (I actually had a great teacher in 8th grade that taught us story structure and had it reinforced in high school and college).  This ending breaks all the rules.  Not only does it introduce a new "villain" in the last moments, but it introduces a new explanation for it all.  And great stories just seamlessly flow along the storyline with characters you begin to know and motivations that you understand.  You hold onto both character and plot line throughout the story.  In a real way good stories are like roller coasters. It's a ride you are on.  At the end of this one, you fell off the ride.  Actually, you got pushed off.

Here you go:
http://social.biowar.../index/11435886 

[AmstradHero]

claudio wrote...

why no one replys my post? the explanation is clear with IT, all of you are speaking about something that doesn't happened (the reaper-child and ecc..) because it is in Shepard's mind; it doesen't matter what happen next (crucible fixed with the Citadel releè and the "magic-multicolor-explosion" followed by a non-sense running out of the Normandy with our earth-squadmates) beacause it was only a "dream-fight":
-blue-control=became like the Collector general,
-green-sintesis=became like Saren,
-red-destruction=break reaper-mindcontrol on Shepard, and our hero wake up with his mind intact....

why are you continue in path that obviously will bring in a non-sense speculation?

use your imagination....or......you are right now indoctrinated by Bioware!

BioWare have said that the Catalyst will stay and that they are not changing the current endings. The only thing provided will be additional cutscenes and epilogues. i.e. They do not intend to take the path of Indoctrination Theory, which many see as the only way to salvage the existing ending short of just scrapping everything after Harbinger's laser beam.

I'd love IT to be true. It would annoy the heck of me being duped, but I'd at least be happy that I didn't get an ending that ultimately ruins the entire series.

[mannyclouds]

claudio wrote...

why no one replys my post? the explanation is clear with IT, all of you are speaking about something that doesn't happened (the reaper-child and ecc..) because it is in Shepard's mind; it doesen't matter what happen next (crucible fixed with the Citadel releè and the "magic-multicolor-explosion" followed by a non-sense running out of the Normandy with our earth-squadmates) beacause it was only a "dream-fight":
-blue-control=became like the Collector general,
-green-sintesis=became like Saren,
-red-destruction=break reaper-mindcontrol on Shepard, and our hero wake up with his mind intact....

why are you continue in path that obviously will bring in a non-sense speculation?

use your imagination....or......you are right now indoctrinated by Bioware!

IT has it's own plot holes such as if he didn't really exist why was a picture of god child on the citadel memorial wall, why did the rachi queen say a sour yellow not not oily black? also there is no proof that short term exposure to reaper tech has any effect on the phycee every example of endoctronation has only occured from long term exposure. the process can be sped up but only actual reapers are capable of it and not their tech according to pervious events and the reaper indoctronation process occurs. the oily shadows in the dream is pretty typical of a stories example of guilt over the loss, did you not notice the whispers are mordins and thanes voices and are only present after they each die?

[claudio]

AmstradHero wrote...

claudio wrote...

why no one replys my post? the explanation is clear with IT, all of you are speaking about something that doesn't happened (the reaper-child and ecc..) because it is in Shepard's mind; it doesen't matter what happen next (crucible fixed with the Citadel releè and the "magic-multicolor-explosion" followed by a non-sense running out of the Normandy with our earth-squadmates) beacause it was only a "dream-fight":
-blue-control=became like the Collector general,
-green-sintesis=became like Saren,
-red-destruction=break reaper-mindcontrol on Shepard, and our hero wake up with his mind intact....

why are you continue in path that obviously will bring in a non-sense speculation?

use your imagination....or......you are right now indoctrinated by Bioware!

BioWare have said that the Catalyst will stay and that they are not changing the current endings. The only thing provided will be additional cutscenes and epilogues. i.e. They do not intend to take the path of Indoctrination Theory, which many see as the only way to salvage the existing ending short of just scrapping everything after Harbinger's laser beam.

I'd love IT to be true. It would annoy the heck of me being duped, but I'd at least be happy that I didn't get an ending that ultimately ruins the entire series.

but..open your eyes...the Catalyst isn't the Child! is the Citadel releè!, they are not changing the current endings....so what this mean? it means that if you choose blu or green your Shepard is clearly dead or under reaper control and the cinematic-dlc will show you an end, if you choose red you break reaper control mind over shepard, so the cinematics will show you an alive shepard and (probably the happy ending victory......
Bioware replays without answer to the fan.....think about it, they can mantaing the current ending and make the real ending at the same time!......
If Shepard really dies the story goes on like ME2 with an other earth-squadmates......infact you can't played ME3 if your Shep die in ME2...the same thing will happen in the "truth"-dlc........

[Voodoo-j]

Thanatos144 wrote...
If you really dont have anything contrctive to say with regards to me why ever would I try to be constructive with you? You cant teach the blind to see and you cant debate a closed mind.

I think you've said it best yourself, you misspell "constructive", just like your posts are not constructive.  Never have I seen such an ironic post with underlying meaning.  

Well done!

[claudio]

[/quote]

IT has it's own plot holes such as if he didn't really exist why was a picture of god child on the citadel memorial wall, why did the rachi queen say a sour yellow not not oily black? also there is no proof that short term exposure to reaper tech has any effect on the phycee every example of endoctronation has only occured from long term exposure. the process can be sped up but only actual reapers are capable of it and not their tech according to pervious events and the reaper indoctronation process occurs. the oily shadows in the dream is pretty typical of a stories example of guilt over the loss, did you not notice the whispers are mordins and thanes voices and are only present after they each die?

[/quote]

1)that image could represent a real child lost XD, or it was simply a subliminal image that we can all see as a clue of bioware to the end (like=fixed on this child it is evil or important) or as a Shepard sign of psychic breakdown.....you should use (as I said ) your imagination.....is a great trick for the players who can read between the lines....
2)about the racny queen I don't undestand what you mean could do write again?
3) there is no proof??!! Shepard fight Saren and Sovereign, the Collectors, the Artifacts on the Dead reaper, the Artifacts on the Arrival dlc!!! he has got a long term exposure!!! an insidiuous one ok but there were many contacts and fights and dialogues.......you can clearly find during all the trilogy....
4) the oily shadows are clearly another effect of reaper taking slowly control over Shepard faith...the same indoctrinated people on the dead reaper in ME2 spoke about that....and the rackny queen in ME1....
5) the reaper use many voices that are familiar for Shepard using his memory and his sense of loss......empaty is necessary to undestand this process....

[Redbelle]

claudio wrote...

why no one replys my post? the explanation is clear with IT, all of you are speaking about something that doesn't happened (the reaper-child and ecc..) because it is in Shepard's mind; it doesen't matter what happen next (crucible fixed with the Citadel releè and the "magic-multicolor-explosion" followed by a non-sense running out of the Normandy with our earth-squadmates) beacause it was only a "dream-fight":
-blue-control=became like the Collector general,
-green-sintesis=became like Saren,
-red-destruction=break reaper-mindcontrol on Shepard, and our hero wake up with his mind intact....

why are you continue in path that obviously will bring in a non-sense speculation?

use your imagination....or......you are right now indoctrinated by Bioware!

IT theory is a good explanation for the ending but it is not canon. Shep was not shown to be indoctrinated nor fighting indoctrination. We can take evidence and apply logic to make IT fit but without narrative structure no one can be 100% sure. We can speculate that IT theory is taking place but BW never took that ball and ran with it.

The canon ending is what we have played through and until BW do a retcon it it will stay canon and seemingly support any interpretation a player choices to apply. IT is a hope at this point. I hope it is true at this point. Anything to shoot that dappy Star Kid.

[Redbelle]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
If you really dont have anything contrctive to say with regards to me why ever would I try to be constructive with you? You cant teach the blind to see and you cant debate a closed mind.

I think you've said it best yourself, you misspell "constructive", just like your posts are not constructive.  Never have I seen such an ironic post with underlying meaning.  

Well done!

i always figured IT would take Shep's little gasp at the end of Destroy option..... pop him/her back their feet and get to making a proper ending. Maybe this time we could recruit Marauder Shields to our crew!

P.S. Aww c'mon, I know the fight for the Queens English is a never ending battle (would that Superman focused more on grammer and correct sentence structure rather than the fight on crime), but a forum can run at such high speed that mispells can be common place. Take to long and the conversation moves on without adding your cents.......cents, sense.... see what I did there?!? I......... That is I............ Awwwww nuts with it. I'll grab my coat.

Modifié par Redbelle, 28 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[claudio]

Redbelle wrote...

claudio wrote...

why no one replys my post? the explanation is clear with IT, all of you are speaking about something that doesn't happened (the reaper-child and ecc..) because it is in Shepard's mind; it doesen't matter what happen next (crucible fixed with the Citadel releè and the "magic-multicolor-explosion" followed by a non-sense running out of the Normandy with our earth-squadmates) beacause it was only a "dream-fight":
-blue-control=became like the Collector general,
-green-sintesis=became like Saren,
-red-destruction=break reaper-mindcontrol on Shepard, and our hero wake up with his mind intact....

why are you continue in path that obviously will bring in a non-sense speculation?

use your imagination....or......you are right now indoctrinated by Bioware!

IT theory is a good explanation for the ending but it is not canon. Shep was not shown to be indoctrinated nor fighting indoctrination. We can take evidence and apply logic to make IT fit but without narrative structure no one can be 100% sure. We can speculate that IT theory is taking place but BW never took that ball and ran with it.

The canon ending is what we have played through and until BW do a retcon it it will stay canon and seemingly support any interpretation a player choices to apply. IT is a hope at this point. I hope it is true at this point. Anything to shoot that dappy Star Kid.

We can't see clearly tha Shepard is under reaper mind because we are Shepard!, we should not have any clue about IT because we have to arrive ourself to the right conclusion (red+100% galaxy reaction)......IT was not supposed to be revealed because is an insidious tecnique of mind suggestion....man!.
IT isn't hope, beacuse if you blow up the Mass Relay you destroy everything and the all trilogy end with what? a Galaxy without reapers and organic life for eternity?......

[Guilty2]

Despite the very loud, very irritating negative outcry about ME3 ending, I actually loved it. So, my first thought after finishing the game was: "Ah, humans... You dissapoint me again". I was utterly confused by the "we have no choice in this game!" critique, due to it's complete insaneness. There is a choice, and what a choice it is! The only explanation I have to this strange reaction to heartbreakingly brilliant game that Mass Effect 3 is, is that gamers suddenly lost all of their imagination. Or maybe it is a first sighn of mass indoctrination

The only complaint I have about the ending is that after the run to the beam under Harbringer fire it is not explained what happened to your current teammates and how they got sepparated from Sheppard. Later I discovered that it is shown that they die in case you didn't bring a fleet strong enough, but if you did, there is no scene explaining their absence.

So, Bioware, please continue to be gods that you are, and know that at least in my opinion Mass Effect 3 as a whole and it's ending in particular are wonderful. I've been a fan of yours since Baldur's Gates: Shadows of Amn (which was very hard to find in Russia at those times) made my childrhood thousand times brighter, and was inspired by your games ever since.

So, be true to yourself, don't listen to all the haters around and hold the line

Please excuse me for my bad English.

[mannyclouds]

[quote]claudio wrote...

[/quote]

IT has it's own plot holes such as if he didn't really exist why was a picture of god child on the citadel memorial wall, why did the rachi queen say a sour yellow not not oily black? also there is no proof that short term exposure to reaper tech has any effect on the phycee every example of endoctronation has only occured from long term exposure. the process can be sped up but only actual reapers are capable of it and not their tech according to pervious events and the reaper indoctronation process occurs. the oily shadows in the dream is pretty typical of a stories example of guilt over the loss, did you not notice the whispers are mordins and thanes voices and are only present after they each die?

[/quote]

1)that image could represent a real child lost XD, or it was simply a subliminal image that we can all see as a clue of bioware to the end (like=fixed on this child it is evil or important) or as a Shepard sign of psychic breakdown.....you should use (as I said ) your imagination.....is a great trick for the players who can read between the lines....
2)about the racny queen I don't undestand what you mean could do write again?
3) there is no proof??!! Shepard fight Saren and Sovereign, the Collectors, the Artifacts on the Dead reaper, the Artifacts on the Arrival dlc!!! he has got a long term exposure!!! an insidiuous one ok but there were many contacts and fights and dialogues.......you can clearly find during all the trilogy....
4) the oily shadows are clearly another effect of reaper taking slowly control over Shepard faith...the same indoctrinated people on the dead reaper in ME2 spoke about that....and the rackny queen in ME1....
5) the reaper use many voices that are familiar for Shepard using his memory and his sense of loss......empaty is necessary to undestand this process....

[/quote]

[AmstradHero]

Guilty2 wrote...
Despite the very loud, very irritating negative outcry about ME3 ending, I actually loved it. So, my first thought after finishing the game was: "Ah, humans... You dissapoint me again". I was utterly confused by the "we have no choice in this game!" critique, due to it's complete insaneness. There is a choice, and what a choice it is! The only explanation I have to this strange reaction to heartbreakingly brilliant game that Mass Effect 3 is, is that gamers suddenly lost all of their imagination. Or maybe it is a first sighn of mass indoctrination

The only complaint I have about the ending is that after the run to the beam under Harbringer fire it is not explained what happened to your current teammates and how they got sepparated from Sheppard. Later I discovered that it is shown that they die in case you didn't bring a fleet strong enough, but if you did, there is no scene explaining their absence.

So, be true to yourself, don't listen to all the haters around and hold the line

And you've just pointed out one of the many problems with the ending. Feel free to research to find more. There are plenty to discover. What's better is the more you look, the more you find. It's the gift of failure that keeps on giving.

It's not a lack of imagination that is the problem with the ending. I have a very good imagination and can imagine all sorts of things happening after the ending we were given. I understand exactly what they wanted to do, but it simply doesn't work. The execution is flawed, the premise is flawed, and the complete and utter thematic inconsistency is flawed.

There definitely is choice in the game. However, the choice does not matter in how the game treats the player in the last 10 minutes of a 100-150 hour series. I'm free to imagine whatever I want, but the problem is that the events between being hit by Harbinger's laser and getting a "BUY DLC" message make no sense. They don't match the rest of the series in tone, delivery or lore. It's not that gamers can't imagine what happens as a result of the ending, it's that the ending makes that imagination irrelevant.

I also take umbrage at being called a "hater". I've loved BioWare for a very long time (original Baldur's Gate and everything since) and argued against people decrying their work many a time. The ending is not worthy of BioWare, and it's not worthy of Mass Effect. It disappoints me to say that it is that simple.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 28 avril 2012 - 01:55 .

[Voodoo-j]

Guilty2 wrote...

Despite the very loud, very irritating negative outcry about ME3 ending, I actually loved it. So, my first thought after finishing the game was: "Ah, humans... You dissapoint me again". I was utterly confused by the "we have no choice in this game!" critique, due to it's complete insaneness. There is a choice, and what a choice it is! The only explanation I have to this strange reaction to heartbreakingly brilliant game that Mass Effect 3 is, is that gamers suddenly lost all of their imagination. Or maybe it is a first sighn of mass indoctrination

The only complaint I have about the ending is that after the run to the beam under Harbringer fire it is not explained what happened to your current teammates and how they got sepparated from Sheppard. Later I discovered that it is shown that they die in case you didn't bring a fleet strong enough, but if you did, there is no scene explaining their absence.

So, Bioware, please continue to be gods that you are, and know that at least in my opinion Mass Effect 3 as a whole and it's ending in particular are wonderful. I've been a fan of yours since Baldur's Gates: Shadows of Amn (which was very hard to find in Russia at those times) made my childrhood thousand times brighter, and was inspired by your games ever since.

So, be true to yourself, don't listen to all the haters around and hold the line

Please excuse me for my bad English.

Well put.

I love when someone explains themself.
While I don't see it the way you do, I have the deepest respect for someone who comes in and posts their thoughts without saying "my way is the right way" or "your wrong".

And your english is very good, I would not have thought it wasn't your primary language. 


If you truly want to understand why others fell otherwise Ive been following this since about page 720 and there is a lot of well thought out reasoning.

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 28 avril 2012 - 01:57 .

[claudio]

[quote]mannyclouds wrote...

[quote]claudio wrote...

[/quote]

IT has it's own plot holes such as if he didn't really exist why was a picture of god child on the citadel memorial wall, why did the rachi queen say a sour yellow not not oily black? also there is no proof that short term exposure to reaper tech has any effect on the phycee every example of endoctronation has only occured from long term exposure. the process can be sped up but only actual reapers are capable of it and not their tech according to pervious events and the reaper indoctronation process occurs. the oily shadows in the dream is pretty typical of a stories example of guilt over the loss, did you not notice the whispers are mordins and thanes voices and are only present after they each die?

[/quote]

1)that image could represent a real child lost XD, or it was simply a subliminal image that we can all see as a clue of bioware to the end (like=fixed on this child it is evil or important) or as a Shepard sign of psychic breakdown.....you should use (as I said ) your imagination.....is a great trick for the players who can read between the lines....
2)about the racny queen I don't undestand what you mean could do write again?
3) there is no proof??!! Shepard fight Saren and Sovereign, the Collectors, the Artifacts on the Dead reaper, the Artifacts on the Arrival dlc!!! he has got a long term exposure!!! an insidiuous one ok but there were many contacts and fights and dialogues.......you can clearly find during all the trilogy....
4) the oily shadows are clearly another effect of reaper taking slowly control over Shepard faith...the same indoctrinated people on the dead reaper in ME2 spoke about that....and the rackny queen in ME1....
5) the reaper use many voices that are familiar for Shepard using his memory and his sense of loss......empaty is necessary to undestand this process....

[/quote]
[/quote]

....? an error in the post or what?