23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Archonsg]

Redbelle wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Whelp back from the #turnMEon #turnMEoff wonder if we gave @bioware's bean counters the numbers to work with. IF not, ah well at least we tried.

If only they'd talk to us.

We could sit outside their offices singing 'We're..... Wonwy.... so wonwy...'

I have a Sniper rifle.


ps: Actually I prefer to use a Paladin X + Deciple X but... Since I don't have a Paladin X ...yet....

Modifié par Archonsg, 30 avril 2012 - 10:20 .

[Aylyese]

Archonsg wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Whelp back from the #turnMEon #turnMEoff wonder if we gave @bioware's bean counters the numbers to work with. IF not, ah well at least we tried.

If only they'd talk to us.

We could sit outside their offices singing 'We're..... Wonwy.... so wonwy...'

I have a Sniper rifle.


ps: Actually I prefer to use a Paladin X + Deciple X but... Since I don't have a Paladin X ...yet....

I have a Black Widow V... Sadly I will never get the BW-X because I still refuse to choose between genocide, slavery and racism. Curses. <_<

[3DandBeyond]

Here's one blog that sums a lot up..............

http://theharemuses....10/dear-bioware

[Energycell001]

Is there any similarities?


Game theme very close to this album theme . The end of mass effect 3 should be like a good music album not like a brown **** stain on a diamond wall.

Modifié par Energycell001, 30 avril 2012 - 11:52 .

[Benchpress610]

OK, loggin back in after Bioware on/off demonstration. I hope they got the message. Are there any news that indicate if we had any effect? Or is it too early?

[3DandBeyond]

 
The fact is that the vast majority of all of us self-entitled, whiny gamers have great affection for the game.  It’s like a lover that cheated on you.  It doesn’t mean you never loved them and don’t still.  It means you have a problem looking at them, “playing” with them, and trusting them again.  If I care, will you disappoint, hurt me again?  I then resolve not to let you have the chance.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

We let the game draw us in. We cared and bought into the characters and saw them as living, reasoning individuals.  This cannot be reconciled with the ending and a character that has no life, no reality for us.  A character we reject, but cannot reject in the game.

Amongst all this is the inability for us (those that dislike the ending) to see how minds that could create a Mordin Solus, could also create this star kid.  We now know they didn’t.  But then again I didn’t create Mordin either and I’d like to think I could create a character or scenario better than what we were given.  Mordin is a conflicted character with somewhat similar flawed logic, but logic that ultimately is well, logical.  It is just that he constantly must adapt his logic to changing circumstances and he does it far faster and with way more justification and flexibility than the super
intelligent star kid.  To understand the failure of the AI star kid all one must do is analyze the true greatness of the Mordin character.

I’m a grown woman and no other video game has made me cry before and I’ve been playing for 30 plus years.  I’ve jumped, yelled, been scared, indifferent, and laughed before.  But cried, nope, never.  Usually games that want me to do so are way too obvious.  You know the ones that show a child being killed in the beginning by some huge monster.  They hit me over the head and do nothing to get me to care, so tears never come.  On some subconscious level, I totally reject this and try to ignore it along the way.

I cried over Mordin, flawed though he was.  I cried over Thane, though he had committed numerous murders throughout his life.  I cried over Legion, though he was made of metal and synthetic parts, and had only just recently learned as well that destruction of a foe on a large scale is not the only way to make it stop.  His question resonates still, “does this unit have a soul?”  And I yell through real tears, “yes, yes it does.”  He sees the sun and falls and takes a part of me with him.  Some of my heart still resides with Legion amidst the dust of Rannoch as well with Mordin and with Thane. The reality is that all these units had and have souls.  They regretted.  And this is the most telling trait of all.  They regretted and used it to change.

So, I am back at not being able to understand how such nuanced and effective, affecting characters can exist in the same universe, let alone same galaxy, solar system, world, and game as the star kid and his “choices”.  Truth is, I can’t and won’t ever understand it.  I can’t be made to feel anything for the “real” kid that dies in Vancouver at the beginning of the game, so how can I ever feel anything but confusion and distaste for his glowing, AI counterpart?  It doesn’t help
that he is fatally flawed in his “logic” as well.  Fatally flawed in terms of the Mass Effect stories, great storytelling, and replayability.  He taints all 3 games.  Quite a feat and not one most game creators want to or ever achieve.  He  de-motivates with perfection.

In reality, I am hoping and will remain hopeful that the minds that created the truly great things in these games will choose a different path.  Perhaps, like Mordin, Thane, and Legion they will have learned that solutions, destiny can be changed and that they often must necessarily adapt to a new reality, new circumstances.  Perhaps, they too will do
the most constructive thing and seek a new way, better way in the face of what a wrong decision has caused and meant (to the game).  Perhaps, they too will be spurred on to change what they can and use what can be a driving force for good-so that fans that do love these games and characters, Bioware’s creations, can love them again.  Regret.  It can be used to a bitter end or it can be understood and used as a tool for learning and to create growth and good will. 

In doing so, like Thane, and Legion, and Mordin, they may have to sacrifice something.  No, not their lives, but a bit of themselves in the bargain.  They may have to take back things they have said, eat the rotten sandwich of their hubris and get beyond what they view as destructive attempts by fans to make them change their minds.  Like a jilted lover, fans of course have expressed outrage.  In print, stage, and film, lovers often need an outlet for their anger as well as their grief.  But the grief fans feel here is not in the fact this is finis, Shepard’s story is over, but it’s more how they were cheated and cheated on in the end.  They can’t be blamed for using words as their outlet for this (no matter
how outrageous and cutting) and it is up to the guilty party to seek a pleasant reconciliation, to eat humble pie.  If
Bioware wants to come home, they need to woo and they need to wow.  The romantic in me wants to believe they
will, but I have been burned once already. 

If it happens I daresay I may again be brought to tears by a video game.  If not, I may never let one in so completely again.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 30 avril 2012 - 12:41 .

[Vakarious]

EDIT: A post appeared right before mine, by 3DandBeyond, that really says it all and says it well!

I tried to read many of the replies, but there is such an overwhelming amount. However, I do want to add my voice to theirs, so here are my thoughts on the ending.

1. My largest concerns with the current endings have been mentioned already by many others. Here is my summary, short but most important: major plotholes, a "deus ex machina" and a deviation from main themes and morale, and all in the last ten minutes :-|

2. Where were my loyal squadmates? Even a single one would have sufficed. These personal relationships were for me at the very core of this series. It is amazing that you have managed to get me to care so much for fictional characters! But in the final moments, my Shepard was alone. In my specific case it was Garrus. No way Garrus is still alive but not up there dying with me. All or nothing, both of us or neither of us. It's the way I've played for the past 200 hours, and my squadmates seemed to follow this general principle as well... but not in the end sequence.

3. I did not like the fact that I should join the multi-player to up my chances for a good ending. This has been a years long single player campaign for me, a coherent story that really took me in. I do not like that this story now includes explicit references to the fact that I'm playing a bought game.

4. For me, there were too much epic "this is it" saying goodbyes. This is not our first suicide mission. Given what my Shepard and the crew have been through, and the manner in which they handled that in the past, I just don't buy it that there would be so very much gratitude and wrapping up and saying goodbyes. It felt off. Especially near the end and especially with characters I was going to take with me anyway.

5. Finally, I believe I do not want an "extended cut" at all: I want a shortened cut! There is so much of a rewarding and devastating storyline there already! Reuniting the geth and the quarians, curing the genophage, fighting actual reapers on foot? It's all there, and it really is more than enough! It could have been kept as simple as that and it would have totally rocked my world.

So ideally, for me? Let's die together, heroically, or make it together, heroically. Simply using the same technologies and plotlines set up in the rest of the story: epic enough! If that is somehow impossible, then I would rather have my Shepard die and have a final moment with a squadmate, on the ground before reaching the beam, than this. And if even that is impossible, and the strange ending must be preserved somehow (heavens forbid), then after knowing those choices - none of which really respects the unity and tolerance and the right to life and freedom for all species that for me felt like the main theme of this series - after knowing those choices, I rather believe my Shepard would have just shot herself in the head, the only other option logically left open to her :-|

As you see, I'm not looking for happy (although I'd love that, I admit), I'm looking for in-character, for all my characters. Which is a bit weird, given that it's your characters, not mine, but you did ask my opinion ;-)

Again, I do sincerely have to thank you and praise you for making me care enough to speak up, because that is actually quite a feat.

Modifié par Vakarious, 30 avril 2012 - 12:49 .

[3DandBeyond]

@Vakarious,
That's one of the most egregious sins (among many) that the ending committed. Your teammates, your family phone in to say goodbye, when you have defied such odds before. You have never considered failure in front of them, because in doing that you plant a seed no one wants to cultivate: doubt. I happened to keep Ashley alive-in ME2 she says I'm a god. Ok, goodbye Ashley, gods die.

You also are basically saying, "I know you won't be there helping me. I'm going alone." Uh, but no. They'd never let you.

Along with no emotional push forward with your teammates-cutscenes even of Garrus giving hell and so on, you get no scenes of Jack and her kids kicking butt.

And, ah, the multiplayer. Kind of fun, kind of gets a bit redundant even so. But, what does really annoy me is the way it just has to factor into the single player. I get it that it's easy enough to up your percentage of galactic readiness to 100%, I am at N7 250 or so. But some people can't play online. Some just don't. Hopefully, if the extended cut features some impact of Shepard living, it will not be required to play MP in order to get to it. MP should never be a requirement for things to happen in SP. If only for my first reason: some people cannot play online.

I still and always will maintain that any ending should always include these main possibilities: Shepard probably dies, Shepard probably lives, Shepard possibly dies, Shepard possibly lives. And along with these should be all the rest. That Shepard could live, but maybe only long enough to see that they've failed as well as that Shepard dies but everything and everyone else is saved. Or vice versa, dies and has failed, lives and all is well. And everything in between. Your choices along the way should go toward a win or lose scenario-for instance, totally alienate the Quarians and no Tali with you at the end. Cure the Genophage and Grunt and Wrex are shown. And so on.

The icing on the cake should be that you can have the ultimate good ending-Shepard lives, your teammates are with you or are seen in battle and in the aftermath. I'd love to see Jack forgetting herself, hug her kids as they see reapers die. It was these characters that made the game.

I can also see a truly epic ending, whether the best or worst happens. Not the same cutscene of some faceless characters waving guns in the air in triumph or being vaporized in utter defeat. Admiral Hackett should get to have a triumphal moment. A Krogan turns to hug a Rachni and stops and soft punches it in the uh, shoulder? The Rachni soft punches back. Asari that are left cheer and there's a fade to their world in ruins. I'd like to see that stuff.

Instead, I get Joker and the illogical Jungle planet scene and if I am very lucky I get a gasp.  It's possible, just possible that they always intended to go forward from there.  But, why not tell us?  If they had said that since people have now gotten to play the game, we need to let you know we always intended there to be more to the ending.  We'll release it this summer and it will put all of the stuff introduced in the last ten minutes of the game into context and such and such, we might have cringed that the game was incomplete, but we would have had something to wait for and the rhetoric might have been less biting.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 30 avril 2012 - 01:26 .

[Vakarious]

3DandBeyond wrote...
It was these characters that made the game.

Yes, that's what it all boils down to.

The one good thing that came out of all this for me, is to witness the fan outrage over exactly this. This game does appeal to the nobler motives - love, hope, freedom - for a lot of us. I'm not the only hopelessly naive romantic out there, which is certainly good to know.

[3DandBeyond]

Vakarious wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
It was these characters that made the game.

Yes, that's what it all boils down to.

The one good thing that came out of all this for me, is to witness the fan outrage over exactly this. This game does appeal to the nobler motives - love, hope, freedom - for a lot of us. I'm not the only hopelessly naive romantic out there, which is certainly good to know.

Yes, that's the truly amazing thing that often does get lost by all of us.  Most of us have never been so emotionally involved with a game before.  Now, it's not like I've never played a game with some great characters before.  I've played the PS3 Uncharted games and those characters are fantastic and a lot of fun.  They talk a lot along the way and you do like the characters and hate some.  But, the huge difference here is that you seem to shape the character of your characters.  In reality, there is often little variation of some of the impact of your interactions, but you still get the feeling you are a part of their lives.  The struggle for loyalty (not always gotten without a lot of internal gnashing) is really important.  The cutscene after the suicide mission in ME2 where all your teammates look at you-you just sense how important you've all become to one another.  And, boy did it hurt if you got a scene where you touched a coffin.

There's also the romance romance in the game that adds a different dimension to it.  The fact that you can cheat on a love interest is something.  And many talk about Liara being the canon romance-Tali, Garrus, and Thane, in no particular order pique my interest as well-but if you think about it, the choice of Liara isn't always the easiest one.  They do tend to guide you in her direction, but if you are loyal to her in ME2, you don't get the paramour achievement.  You decide what matters most and worry that it might upset her if you aren't loyal.  And you can also choose to just plain fool around and open up some other conversation points.

And, Vega called me Lola.  Thane called me Siha.  Mordin sang to me.  Jack had some choice words for me.  Miranda changed.  Garrus sniped at bottles with me.  Grunt called me his Battlemaster-I have no equal.  I could of course go on and on, because of all the fine moments.  Amazing.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 30 avril 2012 - 02:02 .

[Jonah Lee Walker]

To me it also has to be affecting the bottom line of other companies. I saw that Dark Horse just released new Mass Effect Comics. Well I had read all the previous ones, and had been planning on reading new ones, but after that ending, how could I possibly care to read more about a universe that is essentially toast. I don't want to read anything that happened before this ending as having essentially destroyed the universe, what is the point of learning more about it?

[3DandBeyond]

Jonah Lee Walker wrote...

To me it also has to be affecting the bottom line of other companies. I saw that Dark Horse just released new Mass Effect Comics. Well I had read all the previous ones, and had been planning on reading new ones, but after that ending, how could I possibly care to read more about a universe that is essentially toast. I don't want to read anything that happened before this ending as having essentially destroyed the universe, what is the point of learning more about it?

That's it-fans would gladly buy ME4, 5, 6 and everything they could get their hands on with quality upheld.  I have ME1 on the PC and ME2 and 3 on PS3.  I was even considering getting a 360 and all 3 games and DLC for it before I played the ending of ME3.  I seriously wanted to play it again and again and had started several different Shepards on my PS3, getting their face codes and all, in preparation for my 360 purchase.  Part of me still really wants it, because of the 2.99 out of 3 great games, but I just can't do it.  The ending just ruins it.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 30 avril 2012 - 02:30 .

[sdinc009]

Participated in the Turn On/ Turn off campaign this weekend and as hard as it was to pllay ME3 again I managed. I basically just read through the entire Codex in hopes that maybe I could find something to justify this abysmal excuse for an ending. I was able to find this entry in the Crucibles codex entry that serves to justify our discontent. It states,"If the Crucible were completed, the challenge would become tuning the weapon to kill a Reaper halfway across the galaxy without inflicting unthinkable levels of collateral damage." So I guess Bioware didn't want to address this? Feel free to see for yourselves. I've quoted this word for word.

[Redbelle]

Bad news. I've been reading through comments and statements from the Pax East Panel which included the following. Link: http://playstationli...pax-east-panel/

"The dev team stands by what was released in the core product, and we’re very proud of it. It was important though for us to listen to the community, and a lot of that feedback didn’t come until the game came out. Once we were listening we decided to include the extended cut. It wasn’t in the game because we didn’t know there was such a huge demand for it, to be honest with you."

To me this sounds like BW are still in PR mode. I can respect their taking responsibility for and desire to keep the ending on one level but I'm afraid it also means the narrative and story black hole that is the Star Kid gets to stay and ruin what was an A+ work of gaming craftsmanship. Still, at least BW have accepted something needs to budge.

But it's not all bad news:

"We want to give more closure about some of the questions you have and in general we wanted to give the players a sense of personalization with the endings. Many people mentioned that some of the choices they made in the game are not necessarily reflected in the ending scenes. We’re definitely going to focus on things like that. We want to make sure that when you see the ending of Mass Effect, you now have the information and context to be satisfied. "

Ok, so the Star Kid stays it seems. But the questions that arise from his inclusion may now be answered........... I hope. but not only that. They have admitted that choice's made previously were not reflected in the ending. Acceptance is the first step towards dealing with a problem so my hopes a bouyed immensely that BW will connect the rest of the ME3 saga to the ending in a way that brings resolution to the ending.

And that's not all:

“So yesterday we announced the Extended Cut,” Bioware producer Mike Gamble said. “To be clear, the extended cut is not a re-imagining of the ending or a new ending.” There was even more applause at this point, but no more details about what to expect were shared. “We’re currently building it right now, our cinematics team is on it. Our writers are heavily involved. It’s coming together,” Gamble said.

I think the key phrase there is 'writers heavily in involved'. If they have brought the full writing team in instead of the 1-2 man team who wrote the end we may still have a shot at seeing a better ending..... writing team means extra dialogue, these guys made made ME a great story driven experience and I hope they can somehow write a way to help make the ending a more fufilling experience. These writers wrote the majority of Mass Effect so while shaken I've still got a sliver of hope to hang onto.

Modifié par Redbelle, 30 avril 2012 - 04:38 .

[Redbelle]

Another link to Pax East Panel:

http://www.g4tv.com/...ayer-dlc-packs/

[satanatos]

Well, the hell with them then ! They will not see my money again - EVER ! @sdinc009 - what you have quoted does not justify all their lies about the third game. PERIOD !

[daveyeisley]

One thing (among many others) that I am still confused about...

I have read in several places that BioWare stated that multiplayer would not be a requirement to achieve the best ending to the game. I got to thinking about that. On my last 2 playthroughs, I studied the Wiki on how to make sure I got all the best outcomes on various choices to bolster my war assets.

Some things I couldnt get the bets outcome war-asset-wise, since for instance, I blasted the collector base to space dust... but still, from reading the Wiki that was only a 10 point net loss.

One of the citadel conversations where you can support the C-sec officer saying that C-sec should focus on tsecurity and the war and not sweat the small crap is bugged, so even though I made the "right" choice there, it still showed in my war assets as a 8 point loss as C-sec was stretched thin handling misdemeanors.

The big ones, though, I nailed. Grunt lived, even after I sacrificed Aralakh Company to save the Rachi Queen (for the second time). So I got the extra points there for both Grunt and the 100 points for the Rachni helping with the crucible. ("... Not a lot of small talk goin on there." - classic)

I reconciled the Quarians and Geth, so I got over 1300 points for that mission. A real shame that deleting or re-writing the geth didnt actually end up making a difference in the end. Yes, if I had sided with one over the other, it would have, but when you get both, all the decision with the Geth does is change which fleet (Geth or Quarian) the penalties are applied to.

Cured the Genophage with Wrex still alive. Saved Maelon's Data so that Eve/Bakara lives. Got all the extra points there.

In ME2 I even wrapped up all my side quests before completing the last loyalty mission, so when my crew got abducted I was able to immediately hop thru the Omega-4 relay and save all of them. Gabby, Donnelly, Dr. Chakwas, Rupert, and Kelly included. Had Kelly change her Identity and pardoned Ken and Gabby, so I got the extra points for the Eezo capacitors and for the Ex-cerberus engineers.

I didnt have enough resources at the end of ME2 to get the 100 point war asset boost, but I still got the 25 point boost... so a net loss of 75 there.

Edit: I even saved the council in ME1, so I got the Destiny Ascension as a war asset which is like a 20 point gain than if I had undamaged human fleets and Admiral Mikhailovich.

Even with all of this, making sure I did every single side quest and mission, recovered every single war asset on every single star cluster, the best I have gotten my War Asset total to was about 7200. Even with the handful of points I missed, it would only get to 7300, maybe 7350.

So lets see, if I got 7350.... and I havent played multiplayer.... then my readiness is stuck at 50%.... meaning that my Total Military Strength would be 3675.

Even if I do all the right dialogues with the Illusive Man in order to reduce the Military Strength threshold for the "best" ending from 5000 to 4000, guess what?

I still cant hit that with my best effort on the War Assets.

I must be missing something. Either I am short over 600 points in war assets, which I can scarcely conceive of, or the statement that multiplayer was not required for the "best" ending was flatly false.

Modifié par daveyeisley, 30 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[DashRunner92]

3DandBeyond wrote...

 
The fact is that the vast majority of all of us self-entitled, whiny gamers have great affection for the game.  It’s like a lover that cheated on you.  It doesn’t mean you never loved them and don’t still.  It means you have a problem looking at them, “playing” with them, and trusting them again.  If I care, will you disappoint, hurt me again?  I then resolve not to let you have the chance.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

We let the game draw us in. We cared and bought into the characters and saw them as living, reasoning individuals.  This cannot be reconciled with the ending and a character that has no life, no reality for us.  A character we reject, but cannot reject in the game.

Amongst all this is the inability for us (those that dislike the ending) to see how minds that could create a Mordin Solus, could also create this star kid.  We now know they didn’t.  But then again I didn’t create Mordin either and I’d like to think I could create a character or scenario better than what we were given.  Mordin is a conflicted character with somewhat similar flawed logic, but logic that ultimately is well, logical.  It is just that he constantly must adapt his logic to changing circumstances and he does it far faster and with way more justification and flexibility than the super
intelligent star kid.  To understand the failure of the AI star kid all one must do is analyze the true greatness of the Mordin character.

I’m a grown woman and no other video game has made me cry before and I’ve been playing for 30 plus years.  I’ve jumped, yelled, been scared, indifferent, and laughed before.  But cried, nope, never.  Usually games that want me to do so are way too obvious.  You know the ones that show a child being killed in the beginning by some huge monster.  They hit me over the head and do nothing to get me to care, so tears never come.  On some subconscious level, I totally reject this and try to ignore it along the way.

I cried over Mordin, flawed though he was.  I cried over Thane, though he had committed numerous murders throughout his life.  I cried over Legion, though he was made of metal and synthetic parts, and had only just recently learned as well that destruction of a foe on a large scale is not the only way to make it stop.  His question resonates still, “does this unit have a soul?”  And I yell through real tears, “yes, yes it does.”  He sees the sun and falls and takes a part of me with him.  Some of my heart still resides with Legion amidst the dust of Rannoch as well with Mordin and with Thane. The reality is that all these units had and have souls.  They regretted.  And this is the most telling trait of all.  They regretted and used it to change.

So, I am back at not being able to understand how such nuanced and effective, affecting characters can exist in the same universe, let alone same galaxy, solar system, world, and game as the star kid and his “choices”.  Truth is, I can’t and won’t ever understand it.  I can’t be made to feel anything for the “real” kid that dies in Vancouver at the beginning of the game, so how can I ever feel anything but confusion and distaste for his glowing, AI counterpart?  It doesn’t help
that he is fatally flawed in his “logic” as well.  Fatally flawed in terms of the Mass Effect stories, great storytelling, and replayability.  He taints all 3 games.  Quite a feat and not one most game creators want to or ever achieve.  He  de-motivates with perfection.

In reality, I am hoping and will remain hopeful that the minds that created the truly great things in these games will choose a different path.  Perhaps, like Mordin, Thane, and Legion they will have learned that solutions, destiny can be changed and that they often must necessarily adapt to a new reality, new circumstances.  Perhaps, they too will do
the most constructive thing and seek a new way, better way in the face of what a wrong decision has caused and meant (to the game).  Perhaps, they too will be spurred on to change what they can and use what can be a driving force for good-so that fans that do love these games and characters, Bioware’s creations, can love them again.  Regret.  It can be used to a bitter end or it can be understood and used as a tool for learning and to create growth and good will. 

In doing so, like Thane, and Legion, and Mordin, they may have to sacrifice something.  No, not their lives, but a bit of themselves in the bargain.  They may have to take back things they have said, eat the rotten sandwich of their hubris and get beyond what they view as destructive attempts by fans to make them change their minds.  Like a jilted lover, fans of course have expressed outrage.  In print, stage, and film, lovers often need an outlet for their anger as well as their grief.  But the grief fans feel here is not in the fact this is finis, Shepard’s story is over, but it’s more how they were cheated and cheated on in the end.  They can’t be blamed for using words as their outlet for this (no matter
how outrageous and cutting) and it is up to the guilty party to seek a pleasant reconciliation, to eat humble pie.  If
Bioware wants to come home, they need to woo and they need to wow.  The romantic in me wants to believe they
will, but I have been burned once already. 

If it happens I daresay I may again be brought to tears by a video game.  If not, I may never let one in so completely again.

[Kain82]

DashRunner92 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

 
The fact is that the vast majority of all of us self-entitled, whiny gamers have great affection for the game.  It’s like a lover that cheated on you.  It doesn’t mean you never loved them and don’t still.  It means you have a problem looking at them, “playing” with them, and trusting them again.  If I care, will you disappoint, hurt me again?  I then resolve not to let you have the chance.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

We let the game draw us in. We cared and bought into the characters and saw them as living, reasoning individuals.  This cannot be reconciled with the ending and a character that has no life, no reality for us.  A character we reject, but cannot reject in the game.

Amongst all this is the inability for us (those that dislike the ending) to see how minds that could create a Mordin Solus, could also create this star kid.  We now know they didn’t.  But then again I didn’t create Mordin either and I’d like to think I could create a character or scenario better than what we were given.  Mordin is a conflicted character with somewhat similar flawed logic, but logic that ultimately is well, logical.  It is just that he constantly must adapt his logic to changing circumstances and he does it far faster and with way more justification and flexibility than the super
intelligent star kid.  To understand the failure of the AI star kid all one must do is analyze the true greatness of the Mordin character.

I’m a grown woman and no other video game has made me cry before and I’ve been playing for 30 plus years.  I’ve jumped, yelled, been scared, indifferent, and laughed before.  But cried, nope, never.  Usually games that want me to do so are way too obvious.  You know the ones that show a child being killed in the beginning by some huge monster.  They hit me over the head and do nothing to get me to care, so tears never come.  On some subconscious level, I totally reject this and try to ignore it along the way.

I cried over Mordin, flawed though he was.  I cried over Thane, though he had committed numerous murders throughout his life.  I cried over Legion, though he was made of metal and synthetic parts, and had only just recently learned as well that destruction of a foe on a large scale is not the only way to make it stop.  His question resonates still, “does this unit have a soul?”  And I yell through real tears, “yes, yes it does.”  He sees the sun and falls and takes a part of me with him.  Some of my heart still resides with Legion amidst the dust of Rannoch as well with Mordin and with Thane. The reality is that all these units had and have souls.  They regretted.  And this is the most telling trait of all.  They regretted and used it to change.

So, I am back at not being able to understand how such nuanced and effective, affecting characters can exist in the same universe, let alone same galaxy, solar system, world, and game as the star kid and his “choices”.  Truth is, I can’t and won’t ever understand it.  I can’t be made to feel anything for the “real” kid that dies in Vancouver at the beginning of the game, so how can I ever feel anything but confusion and distaste for his glowing, AI counterpart?  It doesn’t help
that he is fatally flawed in his “logic” as well.  Fatally flawed in terms of the Mass Effect stories, great storytelling, and replayability.  He taints all 3 games.  Quite a feat and not one most game creators want to or ever achieve.  He  de-motivates with perfection.

In reality, I am hoping and will remain hopeful that the minds that created the truly great things in these games will choose a different path.  Perhaps, like Mordin, Thane, and Legion they will have learned that solutions, destiny can be changed and that they often must necessarily adapt to a new reality, new circumstances.  Perhaps, they too will do
the most constructive thing and seek a new way, better way in the face of what a wrong decision has caused and meant (to the game).  Perhaps, they too will be spurred on to change what they can and use what can be a driving force for good-so that fans that do love these games and characters, Bioware’s creations, can love them again.  Regret.  It can be used to a bitter end or it can be understood and used as a tool for learning and to create growth and good will. 

In doing so, like Thane, and Legion, and Mordin, they may have to sacrifice something.  No, not their lives, but a bit of themselves in the bargain.  They may have to take back things they have said, eat the rotten sandwich of their hubris and get beyond what they view as destructive attempts by fans to make them change their minds.  Like a jilted lover, fans of course have expressed outrage.  In print, stage, and film, lovers often need an outlet for their anger as well as their grief.  But the grief fans feel here is not in the fact this is finis, Shepard’s story is over, but it’s more how they were cheated and cheated on in the end.  They can’t be blamed for using words as their outlet for this (no matter
how outrageous and cutting) and it is up to the guilty party to seek a pleasant reconciliation, to eat humble pie.  If
Bioware wants to come home, they need to woo and they need to wow.  The romantic in me wants to believe they
will, but I have been burned once already. 

If it happens I daresay I may again be brought to tears by a video game.  If not, I may never let one in so completely again.

Indeed..... The ending is part of the journey. The ending kills the journey. Do I want to go through the journey all over again? Nope. I WAS planning to many times...until the ending.

Indoctrination theory, save us!

Modifié par Kain82, 30 avril 2012 - 07:09 .

[sdinc009]

satanatos wrote...

Well, the hell with them then ! They will not see my money again - EVER ! @sdinc009 - what you have quoted does not justify all their lies about the third game. PERIOD !

I agree, it doesn't justify anything. When I read the entry I thought it was weird that they would agknowledge the fact that if the Crucible needs to be tuned to the Reapers or it could cause cataclismic destruction, which would not be a viable option. Yet at the end we are forced to do just that a basically destroy everything. Why was this whole concern never addressed even though they thought it pertinent to state it in the codex and still ignore it in the end.

[Redbelle]

http://www.g4tv.com/...ayer-dlc-packs/

The current BW stance on life, Mass Effect and Everything

Hitch Hikers guide says keep calm........ and have a cup of tea.

Modifié par Redbelle, 30 avril 2012 - 07:15 .

[3DandBeyond]

@DashRunner92,

Gotta love it!


@Daveyeisley,

Ok, don't quote me but...there is apparently little margin for error and for me the problem is I can't import through 3 games because I have a PS3, so a few things are supposedly missed from that.  You are also supposed to be able to get the bestest ending ever by managing one of 2 things.  I'm no expert on this, but this is what I have read.  If you import all the way through from ME1 and made the "right" choices, you can get to 4,000, and then if you have the right Paragon/Renegade lines open when you meet the illusive man near the end, you pick all Paragon answers to him, and can get him to shoot himself.  If so, your score will be enough to get the super de dooper "gasp" ending.  Otherwise, you need to get the EMS to 5,000 at least.  And, if you don't get to 5,000 and take Liara with you on one of the Cerberus missions-I think the last one, she can die.

I can't state this as fact, since I don't know any of this for sure.  But, what I've been able to pick up is that people are not able to get to the 5,000 without multiplayer or the iPad app.

My EMS was around 7,300 with 100% galactic readiness from MP.  And this seems to be a fairly typical number people get.

I have read that in ME1, it's better for Wrex and the council to die.  I read somewhere that it's better to not gain the Rachni help because you get more of Aralakh company.  It seems to be a wash between Geth and Quarian, a difference of only a little bit.  And I've read that actually not curing the Genophage may get you more Salarians though you lose Krogans, but you get a little bit more Salarian assets.  And you do not want to allow the Asari patient to get a gun-I think you are given that option in the Spectre office. 

So, I think that the reason mine is where it is (missing the 4,000/8,000 mark) is because of a few minor differences in assets.  I do know of a couple of other small missions I missed.  But, I can't find anything that adds up to 1,700 in missing assets of those that I could get.

When I was nearing the end of my playthrough I looked all over for war asset info and could find nothing that ever added up to 5,000.  So, as near as I can tell if you don't play MP and don't get the red and blue options when you see TIM near the end, your Shepard will not gasp. 

I hope someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this.  It has implications for the EC DLC if they don't work this out differently. 

[daveyeisley]

Wouldnt it have been great to have convinced the Illusive Man that he was hurting the war effort and to join your crusade? Whole bunch of money and war assets (maybe around 700 or so *wink*)

That would end up saving Anderson's life, so he could reunite with Kahlee Sanders in the (currently missing) epilogue.

Kai Leng's upgrades and indoctrination could still have offered the chance of a rogue cerberus cell and a good antagonist along with the reapers.

Kai Lengs indoctrinated 'betrayal' of the Illusive Man, combined with Sanctuary being Lawson's rogue initative (perhaps started with Illusive Man's sanction to study indoctrination, but taken down the dark road of involuntary reaper implants and tricking refugees by Lawson's own personal brand of crazy) would have allowed for some solid data on indoctrination to make its way into Sherpard's hands via the Illusive Man's assistance. Data that could be involved in Shepard's struggle to resist the reaper's tampering/indoctrination that 'started' back on Aratoht.

Illusive Man might end up in prison at the end of things, but he could have been saved from himself by Shepard. After all, without Illusive Man, there is no Shepard, no ME2, and no ME3.

Not the story BW wanted to tell, sadly.

[satanatos]

@3DandBeyond - you are correct. You cannot get past that mark without MP gaming. And that is just another plain lie from Bioware (aka Beware). I have played with importing from ME1 through ME2 and into the ME3. I have saved Anderson (on council) and Wrex. Cured genophage and got the help of both Geth and Quarians. With all assets from the ME3 planets combined at 50% readiness - no MP included - I got around 3600-3700. So yeah, without MP you are penalized.

[daveyeisley]

@3dandbeyond

Thanks for the response. I am 99.9% certain that saving the council, wrex, and the rachni result in a net gain of war assets.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/War_Assets#War_Assets

Note the entries in the Alien section for the Rachni outcome, the Asari section for the Destiny Ascension/Alliance fleet outcome, and the krogan section for the Wrex/Wreave/Genophage cure outcome.