23455 réponses à ce sujet

[MtOMajorCat0311]

It is probably time for this thread to fade away into the sunset. as you scroll back through the pages it seems that the topics of discussion have been recycled over and again many times. Some very good points representiting the majority opinion (3D, liarashield, Voodoo) and of, course, the dissenting (Thanatos), but the dialogue has degradeed to such an extent that this thing is now tired and it feels like the dead horse needs to be buried........IMHO.

[darkway1]

Thanatos144 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

It like a comedy show....There are 4 of you diehards left slapping each other on the back for saying the same thing and blasting anyone with a differing opinions....At least I am not the only one who gets the treatment. Cant wait for the Extended cut then it will only be about Shepard living or dieing that you all will complain about..

yay......Thanatos........it will be interesting to see what the extended version has to offer.......interesting to compare what they find exceptable now and what new information the DLC has to offer.......even your views may well be turned upside down now that Bioware has the time to flesh out the ending we presently have.

That is true. I might be wrong on some things buit only those that are conjecture . Many of my views are already explained in the game.

I honestly think that most of the problems are an example of poor comunication on the part of BIOWARE,.......I think what Bioware actually wanted to show was the relay system blasting out a pulse (non destructive one)...........but what we see is the whole relay system exploding.....and we know the impact of a relay exploding......Bioware should have made this issue crystal clear.......did it blow up or not?

Same goes for joker.....the guy may be on a mission,a moment taken from future DLC.....it gives people some thing to think about,adds mystery...........however what most people see is Joker running away from what looks like a mass relay explosion and further more why is your LI on board,she was just with you?? etc...............again Bioware failed to see the picture fan's would paint with the colours Bioware provided.

I think the DLC will flesh out all the issues and will very much get the Mass universe back on it's feet.What we presently have is a bare bones ending that does not explain it's self very well......if this ending was presented in the form of a book the publisher would tell you it's no good,change it...........even Bioware can make mistakes.

[sdinc009]

Voodoo-j wrote...

sdinc009 wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

For the most part the last couple pages get nowhere, all it's accomplished is that babachewie at first shows complete disregard for any ones view that is not his.  Followed by his own admittance of his/her short sightedness.

babachewie wrote...

 You are correct. My counter to this persons arugment isnt proven. Its just what I think based on wha ti know about the series. It is a fan fiction in its own right but thats the only way I can counter other peoples

Again, why disrespect someone elses view when yours is based on your own imagination.  There is alot of thought, and a high level of logic behind alot of views.

I can't belive someone got him/her to admit it   

Maybe now he/she can discuss it without being so callous towards other peoples views, now that he/she has admitted they are doing the same thing.

I did. I simply pointed out that the arguements between LiaraShields and him about what occurs to the galaxy after the ending is entirely specualtive. Both sides of the arguement have merit and are technically correct because there is no definitive proof to address either side as canon. I have been discussing with babachewie through several posts and though we are currently on opposing sides of this debate it doesn't prevent us from doing so in a respectful manner. He does make some compeling arguements to his case, as do I, but we do so with a mutual respect for each others views.

Voodoo-J, I understand that this issue can make things emotionally charged, but please try to refrain from casting insults. By claiming that someone else is being callous or disrepectful because they have a different perspective is not the way to go about this. Let's remember that the point of this forum is to address the concerns or validate the approval of the ending. We don't need to bicker and fight amongst ourselves to do this. We need only discuss the valid and logical points we all have to why we believe the ending shoudl or should not be changed.

To sound completely immature.. he did it first.
I'm tired of people
coming in the forum and posting their view, which I can more than
respect, and then saying someone elses view is stupid, without
explaining why.

So go back to that post, and quote them and tell them to refrain.

thanks

(this was in no way in reference to your discussing with bab, but with his responses to posts within that time frame)

FYI - my first post in response to him actually gave him kudos for not doing what he ended up doing an hour later.

I understand your frustration. I too, am tired of being called "whiny", "stupid", and "entitled" even though I could write a 20 page paper analyzing how the ending is broken, yet I'm never given any valid counter arguement. I can't do anything about what was previouly posted, I was simply trying to cull present offenses on both sides so that we can all return to addressing the issue at hand.

[Holger1405]

LiarasShield wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

So no love nothing fanfiction about that dear that is real consequences played out and that we ultimately failed fake optimism or any sense of victory was lost here unless the dlc will make our sacrifice count and if the relays are rebuilt

I answered to you on something like that about 100 pages ago, still you are claiming that the worst things are happening after the endings we have right now.  So please tell my, why should Earth not to be able to support live anymore? Why should they very same races who defeated the reapers suddenly fight each other?  
You don't like the Endings, I get it, but why did you, and other People who don't like them either, jump to the worst possible conclusions without any evidence whosoever, in the current ending, to back up this conclusions.        

because that is a logical conclusion to thee events given to us and  their is nothing at the moment to go against it

Sorry, but imho there is not a bit logic in this conclusions, only a bias against the ending.

Modifié par Holger1405, 04 mai 2012 - 03:47 .

[Thanatos144]

darkway1 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

It like a comedy show....There are 4 of you diehards left slapping each other on the back for saying the same thing and blasting anyone with a differing opinions....At least I am not the only one who gets the treatment. Cant wait for the Extended cut then it will only be about Shepard living or dieing that you all will complain about..

yay......Thanatos........it will be interesting to see what the extended version has to offer.......interesting to compare what they find exceptable now and what new information the DLC has to offer.......even your views may well be turned upside down now that Bioware has the time to flesh out the ending we presently have.

That is true. I might be wrong on some things buit only those that are conjecture . Many of my views are already explained in the game.

I honestly think that most of the problems are an example of poor comunication on the part of BIOWARE,.......I think what Bioware actually wanted to show was the relay system blasting out a pulse (non destructive one)...........but what we see is the whole relay system exploding.....and we know the impact of a relay exploding......Bioware should have made this issue crystal clear.......did it blow up or not?

Same goes for joker.....the guy may be on a mission,a moment taken from future DLC.....it gives people some thing to think about,adds mystery...........however what most people see is Joker running away from what looks like a mass relay explosion and further more why is your LI on board,she was just with you?? etc...............again Bioware failed to see the picture fan's would paint with the colours Bioware provided.

I think the DLC will flesh out all the issues and will very much get the Mass universe back on it's feet.What we presently have is a bare bones ending that does not explain it's self very well......if this ending was presented in the form of a book the publisher would tell you it's no good,change it...........even Bioware can make mistakes.

Why cant they destroy the relays??????????????? What makes them so
sacred? Many seem to think that destroys the universe and that you cant
make another game cause of it.....They didn t blow up all the Ezo just
the relays. Relays can be remade.Just because some cant see how they can continue making games in said universe doesnt mean they cant.

[Thanatos144]

Benchpress610 wrote...

 
I went back and checked the oldest poll on the ending to see how much of a minority we are and these are the results:
 
Endings suck, we want a brighter one. 91%(66719 votes)
 
Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard 6%(4246 votes)
 
Fine as it is. 2%(1579 votes)
 
That makes an 11 to 1 ratio. I guess we are a very small vocal minority uh?
 
If you haven’t, go vote. Link: http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=28989

Um that only prove those that dislike the ending vote in polls.....I havent voted in one poll and I liked them.

[darkway1]

Thanatos144 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

It like a comedy show....There are 4 of you diehards left slapping each other on the back for saying the same thing and blasting anyone with a differing opinions....At least I am not the only one who gets the treatment. Cant wait for the Extended cut then it will only be about Shepard living or dieing that you all will complain about..

yay......Thanatos........it will be interesting to see what the extended version has to offer.......interesting to compare what they find exceptable now and what new information the DLC has to offer.......even your views may well be turned upside down now that Bioware has the time to flesh out the ending we presently have.

That is true. I might be wrong on some things buit only those that are conjecture . Many of my views are already explained in the game.

I honestly think that most of the problems are an example of poor comunication on the part of BIOWARE,.......I think what Bioware actually wanted to show was the relay system blasting out a pulse (non destructive one)...........but what we see is the whole relay system exploding.....and we know the impact of a relay exploding......Bioware should have made this issue crystal clear.......did it blow up or not?

Same goes for joker.....the guy may be on a mission,a moment taken from future DLC.....it gives people some thing to think about,adds mystery...........however what most people see is Joker running away from what looks like a mass relay explosion and further more why is your LI on board,she was just with you?? etc...............again Bioware failed to see the picture fan's would paint with the colours Bioware provided.

I think the DLC will flesh out all the issues and will very much get the Mass universe back on it's feet.What we presently have is a bare bones ending that does not explain it's self very well......if this ending was presented in the form of a book the publisher would tell you it's no good,change it...........even Bioware can make mistakes.

Why cant they destroy the relays??????????????? What makes them so
sacred? Many seem to think that destroys the universe and that you cant
make another game cause of it.....They didn t blow up all the Ezo just
the relays. Relays can be remade.Just because some cant see how they can continue making games in said universe doesnt mean they cant.

You are not listening........the ending gives the impression that the relay's come to an end......if they blow up then it takes planets with it.......or if they just stop working then this changes how the universe works........the point is ...WE DON'T KNOW

Even if they do stop working I don't see why the Asari can't come up with some secret relay of their own or some turbo drive or what ever,anything is possible.

But back to my first point.......BIOWARE has not made the current ending clear.......hence why we presently have idea's based on Biblical,"IT",dream,space magic etc......all of them actually work but everything,even what we see is irelevant until we get the official DLC.

[LiarasShield]

LiarasShield wrote...

And for those of you who think jokers dessertion was acceptable or abandoning the fleets in the final battle and saying **** you or using the relays before they explode or going ftl before the relays are annhilated I suggest you don't join the military because if you desserted or fled the battle while your allies and soldiers are fighting a battle

You would be shot and or excuted for your betrayal and if not killed you would get dishonorable discharge making it nearly impossiable to get a decent job besides being your local janitor so no joker escaping and leaving the fleets to rot or to die is not acceptable

espically when joker couldn't abandon the normandy in the begining of mass effect 2 and shepard had to come back to yank his ass out of the pilot seat and get him onto a space pod to get him to safety

Let alone joker sticking around for shepard and crew during the destruction and chaos of the collector base and you know simply put the joker abandoining the fleets with your loyal squadmates should've only happened if you didn't do the loyalty missions and you told everyone to pretty much **** off that is the only reason that should've happened for those of us that did do the loyalty missions they should've stayed and fought and either be destroyed or stranded just like everybody else

whats even worse is that they didn't just abandon their country but they abaondoned each of their respective worlds and thee entire galaxy

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

And for those of you who think jokers dessertion was acceptable or abandoning the fleets in the final battle and saying **** you or using the relays before they explode or going ftl before the relays are annhilated I suggest you don't join the military because if you desserted or fled the battle while your allies and soldiers are fighting a battle

You would be shot and or excuted for your betrayal and if not killed you would get dishonorable discharge making it nearly impossiable to get a decent job besides being your local janitor so no joker escaping and leaving the fleets to rot or to die is not acceptable

espically when joker couldn't abandon the normandy in the begining of mass effect 2 and shepard had to come back to yank his ass out of the pilot seat and get him onto a space pod to get him to safety

Let alone joker sticking around for shepard and crew during the destruction and chaos of the collector base and you know simply put the joker abandoining the fleets with your loyal squadmates should've only happened if you didn't do the loyalty missions and you told everyone to pretty much **** off that is the only reason that should've happened for those of us that did do the loyalty missions they should've stayed and fought and either be destroyed or stranded just like everybody else

whats even worse is that they didn't just abandon their country but they abaondoned each of their respective worlds and thee entire galaxy

You do know your interpatation of this is juat that right????A  interpatation.

[LiarasShield]

LiarasShield wrote...

babachewie wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

babachewie wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

How can you like the ending no matter what you did no matter all the sacrifices that you make it doesn't change anything all the relays are destroyed and all the races are trapt around a dieing earth since the mass relays and the fuel stations are gone they will most likely die and what was the point of bringing all these force together and to solve certain issues if they're all going to die in space anyway despite your loyal crew just abandoning shepard and thee alliance and becoming desserters nothing you do counts because in the end we still ultimately fail anyone

let alone the flawed circular logic about how synthetics will kill organics so that organics won't make synthetics that will kill them and the flawed logic about how the created will always rebel against their creator when this isn't so the reaper don't repel or destroy the catalyst and the geth once broken from reaper control want to help the quarians rebuild rannoch so that logic alone doesn't make any sense I just don't see why some of you love the ending when you ultimately fail no matter what unlike in mass effect 2 where you can truely succede

Everything you said is just dreary fan fiction. My outlook is more positive.

honey dear that wasn't fanfiction love that happend at the end of the game unless you had a blindfold on and weren't watching it

I didnt see the part where anyone abandoned everyone and that everyone died because the mass relays are gone. sounds like fan fiction

The normandy hit the mass relays or used ftl while the fleets were battleing the reapers and left thee alliance to rot in space because the relays were destroyed the moment the normandy abandoned the fleets and yes everyone will die because they are near a dieing earth without the mass relays and fuel they will eventually destroy each other because of runing out of supplies

Ultimate defeat isn't why we play video games it isn't why we put all our effort into playing them only to ultimately fail with the relays gone and with fuel stations being gone their is no real true form of transportation and using ftl at will will not work because it sucks up too much fuel otherwise we would've been teleporting everything single place without using the mass relays in mass effect 2 but yes ultimate defeat no closure of the characters we spent 5 years with without the relays rebuilded or without some decent explanation of them getting back to their  homes

then thee alliances that were forged the sacrifices they end up not meaning anything and I really do hope the dlc will fix it

Modifié par LiarasShield, 04 mai 2012 - 04:08 .

[Holger1405]

sdinc009 wrote...

Why is Joker fleeing the final battle? How did my squadmates that were with me on Earth get transported onto the Normandy?

Well, that is Exactly, as I stated before, my problem with the ending. It is a plot hole and it is bad written and bad executed. So I hope the DLC provides answers to this matter.

sdinc009 wrote...

So the Mass Relays are destroyed, does that mean evey system that has a mass relay is also destoryed?

No. Why should they? Because of Arrival? I didn't saw a Fu**** big Rock destroying the Mass Relays in the ME3 ending. Furthermore the "good" ending sequence provides proof that it doesn't happen.

sdinc009 wrote...

Is the Victory Fleet stranded in orbit of a decimated Earth?

Yes, in some endings they are. There is no easy victory, and that is imho good. But why shouldn't the combined intelligence of the races, and the Tigel Project, not being able to reconstruct Mass Relays?

sdinc009 wrote...

What happens to the primary characters of the story, there?

Agreed on that one again, bad written and bad executed. Waiting for the DLC.

sdinc009 wrote...
I've intentionally avoided mentioning the other plot holes that are created in each ending, but the ones I've mentioned should serve to make my point. Speculation about the fate of the universe is just that, speculation. However, creating closure is the responsibilty of the Resolution stage in a story and leaving so much unanswered is a failure of this stage. This is part of the storyline because the ending is an integral part of the story and has the profound power to make or break the story as a whole.

Yes, Bioware could do better in bringing closure, but they already acknowledge that and providing us with a DLC which is supposed to do exactly that.

As you can see, I have my issues with the ending as well, but only with the delivery, not with the logic behind it.

[LiarasShield]

Thanatos if you love the ending why are you here argueing in a thread deadicated to the people that don't you say you have moved on but then why do you still come here to antagonize others you say you have constant other games to play then why are you not playing those games instead of annoying others on here I highly doubt you have any other games or have moved otherwise like us you would not still be posting in this thread

and If you do have others games in these other games you don't ultimately fail right their is some kind of pay off?

[LiarasShield]

well failed logic + plus no victory + crew that abandons the fleets and screws over thee entire galaxy and each of their core worlds= Me not accepting such blatant bull****

I'm sorry I just can't we can argue about this for the rest of time and I do have the energy for it but I can't accept failed nonsense and for those of us that did the loyalty missions our crew should've stayed

espically when joker proved so many time that he was a great and loyal pilot throught mass effect 2 and even most of 3 despite some of his non funny jokes

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos if you love the ending why are you here argueing in a thread deadicated to the people that don't you say you have moved on but then why do you still come here to antagonize others you say you have constant other games to play then why are you not playing those games instead of annoying others on here I highly doubt you have any other games or have moved otherwise like us you would not still be posting in this thread

and If you do have others games in these other games you don't ultimately fail right their is some kind of pay off?

Again you need to read the thread headline....it isnt about a place for all the haters.  You can doubt I have other games all you want. I dont spend all my time here......I subscribe to the thread and they send me emails when spomeone posts.  Also it is none of youre business how I spend my freetime.

[LiarasShield]

And synthetics killnig organics so organics won't make other synthetics that will kill them yeah darling I'm sorry nope that logic rings on deaf ears

[LiarasShield]

This thread is about them listening to the issues with the ending thanatos and clearly you don't have any so no you're posting in a wrong thread and you keep talking mess about moving on but you cleary haven't and you keep trying to throw flimsy excuses to try to save the bad writing and poor excution that was done

[darkway1]

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos if you love the ending why are you here argueing in a thread deadicated to the people that don't you say you have moved on but then why do you still come here to antagonize others you say you have constant other games to play then why are you not playing those games instead of annoying others on here I highly doubt you have any other games or have moved otherwise like us you would not still be posting in this thread

and If you do have others games in these other games you don't ultimately fail right their is some kind of pay off?

Thanatos is still here because deep down he loves us all and enjoy's our company:huh:

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

well failed logic + plus no victory + crew that abandons the fleets and screws over thee entire galaxy and each of their core worlds= Me not accepting such blatant bull****

I'm sorry I just can't we can argue about this for the rest of time and I do have the energy for it but I can't accept failed nonsense and for those of us that did the loyalty missions our crew should've stayed

espically when joker proved so many time that he was a great and loyal pilot throught mass effect 2 and even most of 3 despite some of his non funny jokes

All of what you posted are not fact they are your interpretation of thing...They are all conjecture. I dont see you acknowledging this cause it goes against the strawmen you have built up. So we just wait for the Extended cut to show you wrong on most of them......

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

This thread is about them listening to the issues with the ending thanatos and clearly you don't have any so no you're posting in a wrong thread and you keep talking mess about moving on but you cleary haven't and you keep trying to throw flimsy excuses to try to save the bad writing and poor excution that was done

No it is about talking about your favorite part of the game it was just hijacked by the haters.

[Thanatos144]

darkway1 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos if you love the ending why are you here argueing in a thread deadicated to the people that don't you say you have moved on but then why do you still come here to antagonize others you say you have constant other games to play then why are you not playing those games instead of annoying others on here I highly doubt you have any other games or have moved otherwise like us you would not still be posting in this thread

and If you do have others games in these other games you don't ultimately fail right their is some kind of pay off?

Thanatos is still here because deep down he loves us all and enjoy's our company:huh:

LOL there you go! I like that answer

[LiarasShield]

see he hasn't moved on he just likes to argue that is why he stays lol and he gets ull raged up about how we are not open minded but every time someone shows problem with the ending he just automaticlly says their wrong and not even really decent explanations just you're wrong thats about it really is sad lol

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

see he hasn't moved on he just likes to argue that is why he stays lol and he gets ull raged up about how we are not open minded but every time someone shows problem with the ending he just automaticlly says their wrong and not even really decent explanations just you're wrong thats about it really is sad lol

Not everyone just those I have argued with since the begining...Why you might ask????? Cause you all say the same things over and over and over even if it is wrong.

[3DandBeyond]

One brilliant poster put all this into context. In order to believe and accept or to disbelieve and deny the endings as they are requires an incredible amount of undue explanation. Most of it must be totally made up. In short, there's no there there.

We are given very little fuel for the fire. We have to rely on pure conjecture for everything, except when we don't.

One side says the Mass Relays destroy the system they are in-a valid point that has some basis in fact explained within the game in The Arrival-so pure conjecture is not needed. Simple extrapolation from an example now in evidence is all that this requires. This has occurred before so this is likely to be what would happen unless you can prove otherwise.

The other side says, "wait a minute, but..." and then conjecture enters onto the scene. "Maybe this is a different type of explosion, a limited type. So what if the Mass Relays contain an extremely impressive amount of stored up energy that seemingly when released would destroy anything and everything nearby. Maybe it wouldn't." Extrapolation not supported by anything within the game.

One side says, "The star kid's statements make no sense" and they base this on things within the game itself. The kid says created will destroy creator-always. Not supported by at least one major plot line in the game, even though the reality of it may depend upon how you handle the plot line. Your choice may give credence to what the kid says, but it is just as likely to deny him that credence. So, this again is a fact not in evidence. Shepard can make this a lie.

The other side says, "But wait..." And then conjecture begins, "Maybe the star kid had never had any examples before of the created reuniting and working together with the creator." And once again that does not matter. The example(s) exist now. And the examples would be explained as soon as the star kid uttered the words. It would blow away this kid's house of cards. The star kid seems to know everything else, but maybe just maybe not this.

But there's also a basic fallacy with my whole premise as well as the idea that there has to be sides to this argument at all. We are all fans, I would think. We have differing opinions. We can have discussions on these opinions, but only when we really look at "evidence" the other position offers up. Not conjecture. Proof.

In light of this, with all we are given, prove that the created will always destroy the creator. Prove that it makes sense and so should be a main theme at the end that advanced organics must be destroyed to keep them from being destroyed. Prove that the Mass Relays wouldn't destroy just about everything. Prove that the kid is an appropriate stand in for the reapers. Prove that it makes sense that Joker is running away, that retreat made sense, that the idyllic planet scene fit and was a decent ending (remember it could be an all male cast at the end). Prove that the star kid had time to formulate the idea and create the infrastructure for the 3 choice ending, but did not have time to see any 4th option. Prove that Shepard's actions at the end fit with not just the rest of the game and how you played him/her, but with the way others might have. I united Geth/Quarian, cured the genophage, got the Batarians (who hate me) to follow me. But if I choose to destroy the reapers (what my Shepard would always want to do-control and synthesis never being options), I reject other things I have set out to do. Prove to me that that makes sense. I promise not to bite. And I have truly never read any answer to these things that addresses them without the use of the word maybe.

This is not directed at any one poster, but is directed to all who have opinions different from mine.  Decent, fair, respectful discussion is the better route.  But, in order to discuss something both sides (and one very special person) must be willing to actually discuss the points of argument and not merely post ridicule of others.  I am not sure that some people are up to the challenge.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 04 mai 2012 - 04:44 .

[LiarasShield]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

see he hasn't moved on he just likes to argue that is why he stays lol and he gets ull raged up about how we are not open minded but every time someone shows problem with the ending he just automaticlly says their wrong and not even really decent explanations just you're wrong thats about it really is sad lol

Not everyone just those I have argued with since the begining...Why you might ask????? Cause you all say the same things over and over and over even if it is wrong.

well dear thanaie I even said during several conversations with you that I would love the dlc to prove me wrong that I would like the races to survive somehow and that our sacrifices mean something and that we can have some what of a victory and see the alliances we forged and see how they play out and for some of the closure for our crew but for right now thanaie I'm pretty much right lol

[LiarasShield]

and I repeat the same thnigs over again because they are the core issues that hurt the ending so of course i'm gonna keep repeating them lol