23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Holger1405]

sbricca wrote...


Vigil doesnt drive the reapers army...reapers dont belong to him and he didnt try to kill Shepard for most of the time..

Right of course, still not what I would call a Reliable source. I gave this example only to make clear that sometimes, and through all the Games, and not only in the very end, Shepard simple had to trust unreliable source.

sbricca wrote...
Yes, i agree....why he gives to shepard this chance to destroy him?!! WHY?? this doesnt make sense...


also i demonstrated 2 gaming hours ago on Rannoch that synths and organics can live together, without control, destruction or synthesis...and i dont tell one word about that, only for having a little little debate....


where is the power plug of this child?!?

It's not clear if Stare Child will be destroyed. But even when, it acknowledged that his solution didn't work anymore, and so there must be a new one. 
And with all due respect, you did demonstrated that Peace is possible (as Bioware allowed you to) but it's not clear that the Peace will hold.

And that is the crucial point, something like that is always left to everyone's own imagination. No matter what the Author, Writer, Director does.
    

[Tumak]

Sorry for my english. In Extended Cut dlc, you should let Shepard be Shepard instead of this numb tool that he is in the current ending. Please, give Shepard the ability of critical thinking at the most important moment. Current ending, is so bad in my opinion because (besides many other things) it strips Shepard of his/her character right before the end. And option to adjust fov, and option to lower weapon (like when facing the wall - just tie it to a button, you know instead of holstering) would improve gameplay a lot in my opinion.

[Holger1405]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The reason people think the relays would destroy everything is not just due to The Arrival, but because of everything written about them.  The massive storage of pent up energy that when released would and should be well, massive.  In order to believe that they would not create large scale destruction, you would theorize they implode instead of explode.  Also, there are scenes of the large shockwaves caused and the Normandy was running from one and got destroyed.  But, yes this is supposition, but it is based upon things within the game and not just made up.

The end sequence shows that's the Planet Normandy ends up on is perfectly fine, and that is (Canon) proof, and in this case not a matter of Opinion, that the Mass Relays distruction didn't destroy the relay Systems.
Of course you can question the logic of this outcome, but if you do so, you can basically rip every Sci-Fi Film, Book, Game to pieces.

3DandBeyond wrote...
The idea that species will destroy each other is basic nature.  If they would all just get along and realize they need each other then that also puts the lie to some of the star kid's comments. Different beings can get along.

The wrong logic of the Star Child, that's not necessary a lie.

3DandBeyond wrote...
But...the fleets that are stranded have finite resources and they all want to get home.  There are many different cultures with old, festering wounds of hatred for each other.  They got along for a purpose.  Now, they are locked in a desparate position.  They don't have the resources for all of them to make it home, but one strong race could steal what another one has and have a chance to make it home.

None of this races can make it home, until they work together and build new Mass Relays. So they have a new common goal.
       

3DandBeyond wrote...
There are many instances within the game where things have been done by the stronger races for expediancy.  Krogan uplifted to fight Rachni.  Geth created and improved to work as slaves for Quarians.  Genophage created.  Genophage cured.  Mercenaries enlisted to fight reapers. 

People will panic.  It happens.  It's a very easy jump to make.  Far easier than many the game wants you to make with the ending.

I can point to real corollaries in life today.  We all seemed to get along in the aftermath of some horrible events.  That lasted less than a year.  People are now at each other's throats when we need each other the most, more divided than ever before.  When bad things happened that touched our concerns for our own survival, we came together, put aside differences, crime even went down.  Now, it's common for people to shout each other down over even minor things.  People can get along in adversity, but can fall apart over it as well.

There is a big difference in the ME3 endings to your example. This Races did defeated the worst enemy ever, and they did it together.
 
But apart from this I like to ask again. Why assuming the worst possible outcome?
With all due respect, imho there is only one answer to this. Bias towards the endings without any will to make precise distinctions.

[Holger1405]

alleyd wrote...

 I'm confused about the food issue. The reapers targeted large urban centres and were essentially harvesting humans. They weren't using WMD's that could cause say a Nuclear or Chemical fallout. 
There were 11 billion population, pre Reaper. No doubt a lot less now. Earth's food resources may be sufficient enough to feed the reduced population and those fleet members that share our food. 
Install large scale food production as a priority

With re Quarian & Turian. Quarians already possess the tech to feed themselves for 100s of years. Adapt some of the now "(non essential military craft). Select a planet and setup intenseive food production facilities on a large scale

Both the Geth and Salarians have tech that can alter thee atmosphere and weatheer of a planet. Get them on that.

A transportation network "might" not necessarily be a disaster. It take only a few months to build the crucible after all.

There is a theory that the OM4 could have been built after the normal relay network (Different colour etc) Might be prothean and they knew how to use Mass Relay transit (The Conduit was a mass Relay) we seem to have a very important Prothean data site on Mars.

Does anyone agree with these observations

Yes, I do, posted basically the same a few sits back. 

[LiarasShield]

why jump to the worst conclusions dear because that is all we are left with that is why but once again I hope thee extended dlc makes our sacrifices count and they do rebuild the relays or once again all we are left with is total defeat and no I don't think it is acceptable to have to wait for a ending to a game we already bought or for essentially everything that you did to forge these alliances gets tossed down the drain in the last 10 mins

but alas we must wait and bear it hopefully bioware will make something of this ending uplifting and if not well I got my favorite alternate fan ending vid some it works either way

Modifié par LiarasShield, 06 mai 2012 - 12:17 .

[LiarasShield]

but yes the barely breathing half a breath scene doesn't mean shepard lived just means he or she could still have been killed on earth and a easter egg isn't fufilling on anysense in that particular ending show that shepard lived or that he or she died that one second cut to credits thing isn't really acceptable either

[LiarasShield]

and please we don't need endless pointless sequels after the main protagonist is dead just end the series on a decent note that is all I want and probably a few others want

Modifié par LiarasShield, 06 mai 2012 - 12:22 .

[MtOMajorCat0311]

LiarasShield wrote...

and please we don't need endless pointless sequels after the main protagonist is dead just end the series on a decent note that is all I want and probably a few others want

Yes, either have Shephard go out in a blaze of glory (not a whimper) and end it, or let there be more ME with Shephard in place as the story driver.  I am not looking for ME - the next generation.......well, maybe with Jean-Luc Picard......

[chomicze]

After I ended ME3 i looked through the gamefiles, and this 3 second cinematics is actually titled "End_Shepard_Alive". So i suppose they will show us more in EC, hopefully.

[Mercath]

 I would like to thank BioWare for one of the best gameplay experiences I've ever had. 

I played ME1, ME2 and ME3, importing saves from one to the other.

The entire series is a masterpiece of storytelling, fiction, gameplay and emotional journeys.

I was terribly sad when Mordin died curing the genophage. I was sad, yet proud, when Thane died after saving the Salarian councillor. I was honoured to have fought alonside Garrus for three games. 

I was also especially moved by my Shepard's romance with Liara (thanks to the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, I romanced Liara for all three games). The final moment with Liara on Earth was beautiful.

To have three games offer so much great fiction, and great action gameplay (especially ME3) is a testament to the developers who worked on it for so many years.

The epic heights of the Mass Effect trilogy are, however, sadly brought crashing down in the last 10 minutes of ME3. I didnt' think it was possible for such an epic journey through 100+ hours of gameplay spanning three games and numerous DLCs to be utterly destroyed by one of the worst endings I've ever played. 

Hopefully this will be rectified in the near future.

I respect BioWare/EA's right to defend their ending, but given the overwhelming negative response to it, it's clear they're wrong. The ending is an insult to the 100+ hours of time I've spend on the triology, and the attachment I've developed to the characters.

What's wrong with a happy ending? Real life sucks enough as it is, I play games to escape reality, and a happy ending for those of us who played a pure Paragon and completed all the necessary missions across all three games isn't too much to ask, is it?

[LiarasShield]

MtOMajorCat0311 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

and please we don't need endless pointless sequels after the main protagonist is dead just end the series on a decent note that is all I want and probably a few others want

Yes, either have Shephard go out in a blaze of glory (not a whimper) and end it, or let there be more ME with Shephard in place as the story driver.  I am not looking for ME - the next generation.......well, maybe with Jean-Luc Picard......

Yeah thank you cause I mean just a decent ending to the mass effect series with shepard would be cool random sequels with random people or playing as a random person after the main hero and main villian are gone just don't see the point to it actually I could see several sequels hurting the story of shepard as a whole and denouce shepards importance in the mass effect triliogy

[AmstradHero]

alleyd wrote...
There is a theory that the OM4 could have been built after the normal relay network (Different colour etc) Might be prothean and they knew how to use Mass Relay transit (The Conduit was a mass Relay) we seem to have a very important Prothean data site on Mars.

I doubt that. Why would a Prothean Mass Relay require a Reaper IFF in order to go through it safely?

Some people want to justify the ending being so bad, they want to attempt to salvage some degree of hope and effectively act as apologists for the ending. The truth of the matter is that BioWare messed up. Even excellent companies make mistakes. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is BioWare's biggest to date. I hope it won't be one of the last they get the opportunity to make, but I hope that they recognise and admit that it was a mistake.

Edit: correctly attributed the quote to alleyd instead of holger1405

Modifié par AmstradHero, 06 mai 2012 - 02:58 .

[Voodoo-j]

It's funny how many you tube vids are out there,, funny thing is they have overwhelming likes over dislikes. I have no doubts that the vast majority of ME players are not happy with the way the series ended. I'm to the point that there is nothing further to discuss, no points that haven't been spoken. (just trolls to dubuke)

Something I was thinking over was how Star Wars (ep VI) would have ended.

Im thinking something like this -

http://www.youtube.c...eature=related 

But.. he forgot all the hyperdrives would blow up as well.

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 06 mai 2012 - 01:16 .

[No_MSG]

Holger1405 wrote...
But apart from this I like to ask again. Why assuming the worst possible outcome? 
With all due respect, imho there is only one answer to this. Bias towards the endings without any will to make precise distinctions.

I wanted to argue against this.  I really did.  But there's no point, I realized.  Because what happens after the explosions isn't really the issue to me.  It could be Space Post-Apocalyptic, or it could be Space Gum Drops and Space Ice Cream.  That's not the flaw.  It's what happens before the explosions.  

The fundamental flaw in the endings, more than anything else, is a ham-fisted Deus Ex Machina that exists for exactly two purposes.  Shepard must die, and players must have choices.  And since the destroy option is the best option, a cheap downside was added to it.  The endings suck because the lead up was poorly written, not because of the final effects.

I really enjoyed Jade Empire.  I thought it was a lot of fun.  I, however, laughed at the ending where you let the bad guy win.  I thought it was cool they had an option, but I would never do it.  Mass Effect 3 forced that ending on me.  Sure, I get to choose what the ending cinematic looks like, but as for how the game ends, it's all the same.  

[Biokiipper]

Listening "An end once and for all" track, thinking about the game and the playthroughs, I realized the end was not as bad as people say. We didnt get closure enough, but its ok... What makes me a little sad or nostalgic is the fact that the day I finished the game I couldnt play anymore... I was planning to start a female sheppard and finish my 3 others... I played around 250 hours ME 1 and 200 hours ME2 and one time ME3. I really enjoyed the game, and the feeling that I was near the end gave some kind of heart ache... I finished the game almost 2 monthes ago and I still feel a heart ache, a "missing feeling"... I dont know yet if I will play any ME again, but I couldnt uninstall them too, the games are ready to go... they are great, I feel the endings that we were presented dont allow lots of playthroughs...because we already know whats coming... this heart pain...not all bad...the whole was awesome and the end, in its way was good too. I guess the developers didnt know how attached we were to the game. Its hard to say goodbye this way... we were cut... we got a void feeling... We that love games AND their stories, emotions, characters cant say goodbye this way... Its was not only action for me, I liked the ME universe... and it was destroyed the way we knew during the gameplay... and theres nothing we can do inside game to change that... it was the last one of the series... We have only our complaints here outside... I think thats the big issue, well, at least for me...

[Holger1405]

AmstradHero wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...
There is a theory that the OM4 could have been built after the normal relay network (Different colour etc) Might be prothean and they knew how to use Mass Relay transit (The Conduit was a mass Relay) we seem to have a very important Prothean data site on Mars.

I doubt that. Why would a Prothean Mass Relay require a Reaper IFF in order to go through it safely?

Some people want to justify the ending being so bad, they want to attempt to salvage some degree of hope and effectively act as apologists for the ending. The truth of the matter is that BioWare messed up. Even excellent companies make mistakes. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is BioWare's biggest to date. I hope it won't be one of the last they get the opportunity to make, but I hope that they recognise and admit that it was a mistake.

First, I didn't wrote this Quote. 
Second, it's your opinion that Bioware messed up, and you are entitled to it, but I distinctly disagree.

[AmstradHero]

Holger1405 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...
There is a theory that the OM4 could have been built after the normal relay network (Different colour etc) Might be prothean and they knew how to use Mass Relay transit (The Conduit was a mass Relay) we seem to have a very important Prothean data site on Mars.

I doubt that. Why would a Prothean Mass Relay require a Reaper IFF in order to go through it safely?

Some people want to justify the ending being so bad, they want to attempt to salvage some degree of hope and effectively act as apologists for the ending. The truth of the matter is that BioWare messed up. Even excellent companies make mistakes. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is BioWare's biggest to date. I hope it won't be one of the last they get the opportunity to make, but I hope that they recognise and admit that it was a mistake.

First, I didn't wrote this Quote. 
Second, it's your opinion that Bioware messed up, and you are entitled to it, but I distinctly disagree.

My apologies, I'll correct that.

Yes, it may be my opinion that BioWare messed up, but I have a huge list of reasons why the ending is objectively bad on the basis of literary criticism of tone, theme, characterisation, internal cohesive of the narrative and setting.

Conversely, the only defense I've ever seen of the ending involves either:
A) Repetition of the phrase "artistic integrity" or equivalent words
Referencing other science fiction work(s) and its/their themes, and co-opting them to provide meaning to the ending.

Even in this, I've only ever seen ( used once. If the ending is "brilliant" and "an artistic masterpiece", then people would be able to provide concrete, specific and justifiable literary rationale from the content contained within the series itself to prove this case.

The fact that this isn't forthcoming from anyone - including BioWare themselves - speaks volumes.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 06 mai 2012 - 02:59 .

[ghost9191]

this is about the ending choices....

was just thinking how some ppl say that why not just take control and then fly the reapers into the sun, there is a question i am getting to, well a few. any who the star brat thing itself says "or do you think you can control us" and shepard asks the illusive man if he is willing to bet humanities existence on him controlling, so was just thinking with the risks that are involved in taking control wouldn't that be kinda the renegade choice? i mean yeah they are all pretty renegade but yeah

I had other reasons to but felt like keeping it short, but i mean destroy ends the threat for sure ( well maybe, the little brat was a bit vague ) where as there is a chance control would fail

Modifié par ghost9191, 06 mai 2012 - 03:06 .

[Holger1405]

No_MSG wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...
But apart from this I like to ask again. Why assuming the worst possible outcome? 
With all due respect, imho there is only one answer to this. Bias towards the endings without any will to make precise distinctions.

I wanted to argue against this.  I really did.  But there's no point, I realized.  Because what happens after the explosions isn't really the issue to me.  It could be Space Post-Apocalyptic, or it could be Space Gum Drops and Space Ice Cream.  That's not the flaw.  It's what happens before the explosions.  

The fundamental flaw in the endings, more than anything else, is a ham-fisted Deus Ex Machina that exists for exactly two purposes.  Shepard must die, and players must have choices.  And since the destroy option is the best option, a cheap downside was added to it.  The endings suck because the lead up was poorly written, not because of the final effects.

I really enjoyed Jade Empire.  I thought it was a lot of fun.  I, however, laughed at the ending where you let the bad guy win.  I thought it was cool they had an option, but I would never do it.  Mass Effect 3 forced that ending on me.  Sure, I get to choose what the ending cinematic looks like, but as for how the game ends, it's all the same.  

Sorry, but neither has Shepard to die, nor forced Bioware the victory of the bad guy's on everyone. That is just not true.

[chomicze]

I tried to analyze all possible endings, but it's really crawling in the dark. We don't know how, and if, our EMS affects anything AFTER godchild bs choices. We do know, that there are good and bad beams, that leave or destroy organics and buildings and whatsoever. But I have no idea, if there's any connection between EMS and for example effects of control. Could be that when it's low, Shep can't control them and it all get messed up.

For me personally it's the worst ending, not just because it was TIM way, but it appears that Shep will be new godchild. And what will he do? He will be wandering with his new super-duper reaper squad through universe? I really don't want him to be in that role, or anywhere near. I really don't like anything except destruction, synthesis is dumb and completely illogical and "how it is even going to work?" solution, control as I said above.

[ghost9191]

same, first play through i went with destroy, hard to see with all the tears but i did it damn it. but i didn't want it to seem like i didn't go with control because of the illusive man just meant that in your conversation with him you bash the idea. and yeah i dislike synthesis just wtf ending even more so then the ending

[ghost9191]

Modifié par ghost9191, 06 mai 2012 - 03:23 .

[Holger1405]

LiarasShield wrote...

but yes the barely breathing half a breath scene doesn't mean shepard lived just means he or she could still have been killed on earth and a easter egg isn't fufilling on anysense in that particular ending show that shepard lived or that he or she died that one second cut to credits thing isn't really acceptable either

The name of this video files are End03_Shepard_Alive_Fem or End03_Shepard_Alive_Male. So I personally consider it proof that Shepard is alive.            

And again, you assuming the worst posible outcome and that is something I simply don't get. Still, you are of course entitled to it.

[Archonsg]

Here's a little food for thought, for friends here in BSN, people who perhaps at best, think I am a blowhard, at worst, perhaps less then the human I am, and to the staff and people who made what could have been one of the greatest story driven game series of the decade.

The fact that we are all here, that we registered ourselves on a forum dedicated to a company whose products not just entertain us, but can also teach, inspire and bring about personal emotional investment in what are essentially fictional characters speak both highly of the products and the people supporting these products. This includes your customers, your paying fans.

So, while I cannot speak for everyone, and I am making opinionated statements based on my own personal relationship with Bioware / Black Isles Studio in history past, I truly believe that most here have the same passion for Bioware games that I have, the same level of passion that compels me, at this moment to type all this on a phone with a screen not designed for forum interaction.

That more then a few of these passionate and loyal fans keep trying to indicate to Bioware why they think the current ending is wrong is not born out of spite but of love of the game, the world that Bioware has created for us.

Me, I know that it may seem that I am picking on very technical details but to be honest, it is only because the current ending is that bad to have evoked this reaction from me.

Truth to be told, ME3, right from the very beginning when Udina is shown to be the Human Council Member and not Anderson as was my choice in both ME1&2 without so much as an explanation, had existing flaws, but because these flaws were and can be worked into the narrative and is based on lore of the story past, these flaws are easily ignored or be given benefit of self editing and filling in the missing pieces in our own minds. They weren't "breaking" the story.

That last 10 minutes however have caused more negative feedback then the entire past 5 years combined, or so it seemed to me, that it should have been a huge red flag to Bioware that something is very very wrong.

Now, this post is not about the merit or faults of the ending. I and many others have already put up enough material over here, YouTube and other avenues of discussion to impress on Bioware, that is, if they are truly paying attention, to what we are saying, what we want Bioware to know and understand and why we feel that the current ending is bad.

No, this is just to say that we fans who are still posting here are doing so because we do care. That we do not want to see a great company whose products we have long loved and a company whose Brand could evoke the "Take my money now!!! I am going to Pre-order a year before the game is even available!" response fail so badly. 

In the day and age of competition from the likes of Bethdesda with its new soon to come offering Dishonored : Debut Trailer and other studios trying very hard to snap up a larger piece of the gaming industry pie, Bioware should not at this time give cause and reason for their core fans to leave.

For almost two decades, Bioware / Black Isles Studio has been part of my life. The hours I have invested in your products and in that vein, you Bioware, were well spent. It is a shame that in ten short minutes and the statements made by people whom I thought should know better, made us feel betrayed, ignored and abandoned. I wonder if this is how infidelity victims feel like.

So while as a "normal" consumer, I could just have shrugged, and wrote you guys off for what I felt was an incomplete product, many of us here are trying to get you Bioware to see that we do care, that we want you to succeed and that we hope you would see why Mass Effect 3, with the ending unchanged and or without alternate optional endings, have made your core fans, and then some, very unhappy to the point of calling it quits with you and your future products.

Please don't let this happen.

Modifié par Archonsg, 06 mai 2012 - 07:56 .

[ghost9191]

the post was well done, but just saying there was a codex entry about anderson stepping down, not really detailed but it did say why if i remember right

i would like to know if bioware is actually listening though

Modifié par ghost9191, 06 mai 2012 - 03:46 .