Ce sujet est ferméOpps! Sorry, meant to use that example as an "in game fault" a narrative fault if you will that the player with knowledge of the situation could "fill in the blanks" on their own. Those whom however have not read or were not aware of Anderson stepping down, would have felt an immediate disconnect since no effort was given in the least to give a hint to Anderson's / Udina's status.ghost9191 wrote...
the post was well done, but just saying there was a codex entry about anderson stepping down, not really detailed but it did say why if i remember right
i would like to know if bioware is actually listening though
On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 15 2012 02:55
#19551
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 04:05
Archonsg
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Retour en haut
#19553
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 04:25
NiNakaWarrior
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ME3 is overall a great game with a disappointing ending. I don't necessarily think it's all bad, it just has two major flaws, if you ask me:
1. WTF happened to all of my team mates? How on earth did Joker manage to pick up the two squad mates I selected? And why was the Normandy leaving anyway, they're supposed to way for Shep, unless I strictly order them to get the hell out of there! (The last one was exaggerated, just to be clear)
2. Why are all endings the same?! And with the destruction of the Mass Relays, it boils down to Shep pretty much destroying the galaxy in stead of the Reapers...?
By they way, while you're working on improving the ending, can't you have Jennifer Hale voice a couple of more lines so we can get the Ashley F/F romance option, like it had been intended at the very beginning of the Mass Effect trilogy. (I would gladly pay for it if that's what it takes.)
Because the only thing that was without a doubt more annoying than the ending, was that useless Diana Allers character.
Oh and if anyone hasn't seen it, you should definitely look up the Angry Joe review about the ten reasons why ME3's ending sucks. I think it's amazing.
Still, awesome game, yet the ending pretty much destroyed the replay value, since it doesn't even matter how you get there, you simply do - and the galaxy's fate is sealed either way.
1. WTF happened to all of my team mates? How on earth did Joker manage to pick up the two squad mates I selected? And why was the Normandy leaving anyway, they're supposed to way for Shep, unless I strictly order them to get the hell out of there! (The last one was exaggerated, just to be clear)
2. Why are all endings the same?! And with the destruction of the Mass Relays, it boils down to Shep pretty much destroying the galaxy in stead of the Reapers...?
By they way, while you're working on improving the ending, can't you have Jennifer Hale voice a couple of more lines so we can get the Ashley F/F romance option, like it had been intended at the very beginning of the Mass Effect trilogy. (I would gladly pay for it if that's what it takes.)
Because the only thing that was without a doubt more annoying than the ending, was that useless Diana Allers character.
Oh and if anyone hasn't seen it, you should definitely look up the Angry Joe review about the ten reasons why ME3's ending sucks. I think it's amazing.
Still, awesome game, yet the ending pretty much destroyed the replay value, since it doesn't even matter how you get there, you simply do - and the galaxy's fate is sealed either way.
#19554
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 04:56
ghost9191
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@NiNakaWarrior recommend that video also, pretty long but good if you haven't seen it yet
Modifié par ghost9191, 06 mai 2012 - 04:57 .
#19555
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 05:04
No_MSG
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The Deus Ex Machina tells you all three choices result in your death. Shepard surviving doesn't change the fact that it exists to kill Shepard. It just sucks at it.Holger1405 wrote...
No_MSG wrote...
Holger1405 wrote...
But apart from this I like to ask again. Why assuming the worst possible outcome?
With all due respect, imho there is only one answer to this. Bias towards the endings without any will to make precise distinctions.
I wanted to argue against this. I really did. But there's no point, I realized. Because what happens after the explosions isn't really the issue to me. It could be Space Post-Apocalyptic, or it could be Space Gum Drops and Space Ice Cream. That's not the flaw. It's what happens before the explosions.
The fundamental flaw in the endings, more than anything else, is a ham-fisted Deus Ex Machina that exists for exactly two purposes. Shepard must die, and players must have choices. And since the destroy option is the best option, a cheap downside was added to it. The endings suck because the lead up was poorly written, not because of the final effects.
I really enjoyed Jade Empire. I thought it was a lot of fun. I, however, laughed at the ending where you let the bad guy win. I thought it was cool they had an option, but I would never do it. Mass Effect 3 forced that ending on me. Sure, I get to choose what the ending cinematic looks like, but as for how the game ends, it's all the same.
Sorry, but neither has Shepard to die, nor forced Bioware the victory of the bad guy's on everyone. That is just not true.
As for Bioware not forcing the victory for the bad guys, are you sure? I'm pretty sure the only ending I got to choose from was the one given to me by the one who controls the reapers. Pretty sure by taking any of the choices offered, it wins.
#19556
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 05:35
AmstradHero
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Exactly.No_MSG wrote...
The Deus Ex Machina tells you all three choices result in your death. Shepard surviving doesn't change the fact that it exists to kill Shepard. It just sucks at it.Holger1405 wrote...
As for Bioware not forcing the victory for the bad guys, are you sure? I'm pretty sure the only ending I got to choose from was the one given to me by the one who controls the reapers. Pretty sure by taking any of the choices offered, it wins.
Holger1405 - you seem to like the ending and think it is good. Can you please give a literary explanation of why it is good, without either:
A) Citing "artistic integrity" (or words to that effect)
Citing other (science) fiction works as support for the meaning of the ending.If it is a well written ending, it should be simple to do that in an easily defensible manner.
#19557
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 05:53
Archonsg
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@amstradhero
Since Bioware themselves can't, I do not see how anyone else can.
And to give that whole "your LI on the Normandy landing on a paradise planet" perspective, it is like You and Liara walking in a park, hand in hand when someone comes up, shoots you and you loose consciousness. You wake up to find Liara gone, you then go on to find her in time to see your entire city block blow up. You see Joker dive his car in a mad rush to escape the blast wave. He doesn't make it. You see the windows shatter, wheels torn off and the car flips.
You close your eyes. Opening them again, you see an amazingly almost intact car, with Joker climbing out, but wait, there is Liara too! And without a scratch, nor any care or concern that you were left behind it seems. Then Liara turns her perfect body and face and curling those wonderful limbs of hers around joker, gives him the tongue.
ARTISTIC INTEGRITY.
BS. Right?
Ps: okies, that was bad, sue me, I was eating my lunch at the time. The sentiment though, is there. But crappy analogy.
Since Bioware themselves can't, I do not see how anyone else can.
And to give that whole "your LI on the Normandy landing on a paradise planet" perspective, it is like You and Liara walking in a park, hand in hand when someone comes up, shoots you and you loose consciousness. You wake up to find Liara gone, you then go on to find her in time to see your entire city block blow up. You see Joker dive his car in a mad rush to escape the blast wave. He doesn't make it. You see the windows shatter, wheels torn off and the car flips.
You close your eyes. Opening them again, you see an amazingly almost intact car, with Joker climbing out, but wait, there is Liara too! And without a scratch, nor any care or concern that you were left behind it seems. Then Liara turns her perfect body and face and curling those wonderful limbs of hers around joker, gives him the tongue.
ARTISTIC INTEGRITY.
BS. Right?
Ps: okies, that was bad, sue me, I was eating my lunch at the time. The sentiment though, is there. But crappy analogy.
Modifié par Archonsg, 06 mai 2012 - 06:14 .
#19558
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 06:01
ShadowRanger88
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I really wanted a couple more squadmates especially at least one from me2. I was dissapointed when I reached the end and didn't have a single me2 unique squadmate. While I took javik for every mission, I liked to switch around my other squadmate but overall the game was really good.
Except the ending. Refer to my sig :/
Except the ending. Refer to my sig :/
#19559
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 07:14
Purebird
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Im sorry Bioware, but unless you change the endings as they stand, I cannot support you guys in the future. To me the endings are full of plot-holes, contradictions to the true nature of the mass effect game style and overall completely and utterly depressing, not bittersweet as you guys claim. Here are some points on why I think this:
- For starters I took Liara and Garrus with me in the final mission of the game and after harbinger unloaded on me, I never saw Garrus again so I can only assume he is dead.
- After revealing Harbinger as the pseudo- leader of the reapers in ME2, to not have an actual fight, or even a speech line, with him was extremely anticlimactic. The final boss of the entire trilogy being a Marauder was unsatisfying to say the least.
- Next i though you guys made it clear from the Arrival DLC that if a relay gets destroyed, then the entire system surrounding it would also be destroyed? If this isnt the case then this definatley needs to be stated otherwise the majority of the galaxy must assume to be destroyed including earth.
- Furthermore it has been stated throughout the game that the mass relays form the centre for nearly all galactic commerce. i.e. mining companies extract and deliver mineral resources through a relay, companies manufacture goods on suitable planets and deliver those goods through the relays etc. From the destruction of the relays it must be assumed that galactic commerce would fall apart and most likely cause anarchy or at least destroy the majority of the galaxy financially making the denizens of the galaxy struggle to survive. There is a slim possibility that maybe each planet can consolidate their resources, after most of these planets have been basically obliterated after the reaper strikes, and undertake a drastic reordering of jobs and financial institutions to form a planet based economy but this again needs to be stated and even if it is it better be done well to be believable. Even if this is done, this still leaves many galactic citizens, who were obviously not in the galactic army fighting at earth since not everyone is a solider, displaced from their planets after the relays are destroyed and if they are working on small space stations which do not contain means to produce constant and adequate supplies for survival and/or all the necessary resources to constantly maintain the station, then cutting these stations off from the rest of the galaxy will result in the death of the stations crew.
- Also if the relays were destroyed and Joker and the Normandy crew were at earth during the final stages of the game then how did they crash land on some mystery planet? This planet easily isnt in the sol system since earth is the only habitable planet in this region. It can only be assumed that Joker and Co. ditches Shep and runs off for no reason whatsoever. Moreover if I choose the destroy reapers option I see Liara, who i took with me in the final mission and was my romantic interest, with the Normandy crew on this mystery planet so I can only assume she somehow made it off earth after harbinger's attack and ditched me as well.
- Again if the relays were destroyed and the whole galactic army is still at earth, which has taken one of the worse beatings in the galaxy due to Shep pissing the reapers off, then this army would be stuck on earth, never to see their families or respective planets again, including the quarians who just got their planet back! Since earth is so badly damaged and the whole galactic fleet now needs to live on earth and the destruction of the relays have cut off all financial, goods and physical support for food, infrastructure, etc. it can only be assumed that everyone will eventually fight for the dismal resources left on earth and eventually starve or eek out a miserable existence. I might add that Joker and the Normandy crew will also starve on their mystery planet without any access to outside support either.
There are more problems I have with the endings but I dont have the time to write them all up and I think I have proven my point. Having said all this I did love the general gameplay of ME3, i.e. the increased manoeuvrability of Shep, the raw intensity of fighting the reaper/cerberus/geth forces and the streamlined tech and biotic combinations which all worked great together and most of the story was excellent like the genophage and quarian/geth missions. I do have other issues with the game but again this would take up too much room on this post. In summary the game was fun to play but the endings were without a doubt completely unsatisfying and without a change to them I feel you have slaughtered the end to one of the best game trilogies that have ever existed. I hope you will change the endings and address my issues in the extended cut DLC but if you guys dont then I cannot support anymore of bioware's games. Finally Id like to thankyou for defining a new level of game design though ME1 and ME2 that will set the benchmark for other gaming companies so that further excellent games will be made in the future
- For starters I took Liara and Garrus with me in the final mission of the game and after harbinger unloaded on me, I never saw Garrus again so I can only assume he is dead.
- After revealing Harbinger as the pseudo- leader of the reapers in ME2, to not have an actual fight, or even a speech line, with him was extremely anticlimactic. The final boss of the entire trilogy being a Marauder was unsatisfying to say the least.
- Next i though you guys made it clear from the Arrival DLC that if a relay gets destroyed, then the entire system surrounding it would also be destroyed? If this isnt the case then this definatley needs to be stated otherwise the majority of the galaxy must assume to be destroyed including earth.
- Furthermore it has been stated throughout the game that the mass relays form the centre for nearly all galactic commerce. i.e. mining companies extract and deliver mineral resources through a relay, companies manufacture goods on suitable planets and deliver those goods through the relays etc. From the destruction of the relays it must be assumed that galactic commerce would fall apart and most likely cause anarchy or at least destroy the majority of the galaxy financially making the denizens of the galaxy struggle to survive. There is a slim possibility that maybe each planet can consolidate their resources, after most of these planets have been basically obliterated after the reaper strikes, and undertake a drastic reordering of jobs and financial institutions to form a planet based economy but this again needs to be stated and even if it is it better be done well to be believable. Even if this is done, this still leaves many galactic citizens, who were obviously not in the galactic army fighting at earth since not everyone is a solider, displaced from their planets after the relays are destroyed and if they are working on small space stations which do not contain means to produce constant and adequate supplies for survival and/or all the necessary resources to constantly maintain the station, then cutting these stations off from the rest of the galaxy will result in the death of the stations crew.
- Also if the relays were destroyed and Joker and the Normandy crew were at earth during the final stages of the game then how did they crash land on some mystery planet? This planet easily isnt in the sol system since earth is the only habitable planet in this region. It can only be assumed that Joker and Co. ditches Shep and runs off for no reason whatsoever. Moreover if I choose the destroy reapers option I see Liara, who i took with me in the final mission and was my romantic interest, with the Normandy crew on this mystery planet so I can only assume she somehow made it off earth after harbinger's attack and ditched me as well.
- Again if the relays were destroyed and the whole galactic army is still at earth, which has taken one of the worse beatings in the galaxy due to Shep pissing the reapers off, then this army would be stuck on earth, never to see their families or respective planets again, including the quarians who just got their planet back! Since earth is so badly damaged and the whole galactic fleet now needs to live on earth and the destruction of the relays have cut off all financial, goods and physical support for food, infrastructure, etc. it can only be assumed that everyone will eventually fight for the dismal resources left on earth and eventually starve or eek out a miserable existence. I might add that Joker and the Normandy crew will also starve on their mystery planet without any access to outside support either.
There are more problems I have with the endings but I dont have the time to write them all up and I think I have proven my point. Having said all this I did love the general gameplay of ME3, i.e. the increased manoeuvrability of Shep, the raw intensity of fighting the reaper/cerberus/geth forces and the streamlined tech and biotic combinations which all worked great together and most of the story was excellent like the genophage and quarian/geth missions. I do have other issues with the game but again this would take up too much room on this post. In summary the game was fun to play but the endings were without a doubt completely unsatisfying and without a change to them I feel you have slaughtered the end to one of the best game trilogies that have ever existed. I hope you will change the endings and address my issues in the extended cut DLC but if you guys dont then I cannot support anymore of bioware's games. Finally Id like to thankyou for defining a new level of game design though ME1 and ME2 that will set the benchmark for other gaming companies so that further excellent games will be made in the future
#19560
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 07:48
Archonsg
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Redbelle wrote...
I just resisted posting a Normandy Nyan Cat tagged as "A better ending". So instead, here's a fan mash up of an ending.
Link:
......................oh I can't resist!
Link:
Link fixed
ME3 Fan Ending
I definitely like this one a lot.
Felt like a damn sacrifice and WINNING.
Modifié par Archonsg, 06 mai 2012 - 07:50 .
#19561
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 08:53
adamg37
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Bioware you made a series which made us cry over the many hours we played on it. You were going to make a perfect series. Bioware can't you see the public reacting to this. Changing the idea of a random all powerful weapon (crucible) coming up from nowhere is a start. A youtube user 'IPototas' (http://www.youtube.com/user/iPotatos ) came up with a beautiful ending for ME3 on the 'An End Once and For All' soundtrack. ().
*Music Starts* - Garrus pulls me from the rubble (In his arms if Femshep, On his back if BroShep) and begins to carry me towards the Normandy, The reapers defeated everyone stares in silence, every race, ever solider. My crew rushes towards me, all of them helping carry a presumed dead Shepard to the entrance of the normandy. Garrus places you down and lets Chakwas examine you, she says you're dead...Everyone drops to their knees...And then at 2:14...Your hand twitches...And the story continues.- iPotatos
Im not saying for you to change it to this but please for your fans do something...
Yours Sincerly,
Marauder Shields.
*Music Starts* - Garrus pulls me from the rubble (In his arms if Femshep, On his back if BroShep) and begins to carry me towards the Normandy, The reapers defeated everyone stares in silence, every race, ever solider. My crew rushes towards me, all of them helping carry a presumed dead Shepard to the entrance of the normandy. Garrus places you down and lets Chakwas examine you, she says you're dead...Everyone drops to their knees...And then at 2:14...Your hand twitches...And the story continues.- iPotatos
Im not saying for you to change it to this but please for your fans do something...
Yours Sincerly,
Marauder Shields.
Modifié par adamg37, 06 mai 2012 - 08:54 .
#19562
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 09:07
kayneyc7
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Quitely , Because The Ending Is Coming Soon, Reapers? Who Cares About Them.. Time Is Only A Lesson.. And We Will Save The World With Sheppard.
#19563
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 09:54
NiNakaWarrior
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Thanks, I'm watching it right nowghost9191 wrote...
@NiNakaWarrior recommend that video also, pretty long but good if you haven't seen it yet
I had kind of expected that it would be revealed that the Illusive Man used Reaper technology to revive Shepard and that destroying the Reapers would have killed Shepard in the process. No Mass Relay explosions, just Shepard sacricifcing him/herself to save the Galaxy. That would be my Paragon option.
Then the Renegade option would be controlling the Reapers, which might bite you in the ass later, but you would keep Shepard alive in the process. Or maybe the destruction of the Galaxy should have been the Renegade option.
Instead you can either die and blow up the Galaxy. Or blow up the Galaxy and die. Or -apparently- play the multiplayer and live, well sort of, and blow up the Galaxy.
I just don't really see the difference between this ending, where all life has to find some way to start over, most individuals being separated from their loved ones - and an ending where the Reapers would have destroyed higher organic life forms and then created new ones who, combined with some survivors, need to restart civilization.
I don't necessarily need a happy end to be satisfied, hell, most good movies have a sad or bittersweet ending if you ask me. But this... What happened to every one of Shepard's friends? What impact did destroying/controlling/synthesizing have? Etcetera.
It's just... empty.
Modifié par NiNakaWarrior, 06 mai 2012 - 09:56 .
#19564
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 12:28
sbricca
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Holger1405 wrote...
. But even when, it acknowledged that his solution didn't work anymore, and so there must be a new one.
Yes! That's what i want to know! Why this solution is not good anymore?
You are almost dead near the panel control, the starchild can keep on his distruction ( i dont know if is clear in english, i mean.."continue destroying.. ndr)
He won!! He definitely won! You writer cant let to me any answers for that...i have no enough imagination to give a sense to this logic
And...we know who are the wardens (i dont know the name in english version, the little animals in the citadel, everytime busy on the consoles)? i think they should have a bigger role in this story...who are them? Who built them? They created starchild? What are they doing when i arrive on the citadel? the galaxy is going to be destroyed and they are playing.... tetris?!
Modifié par sbricca, 06 mai 2012 - 12:31 .
#19565
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 02:16
Voodoo-j
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If Bioware really wants to listen...
Someone so young, but yet so bright.
Someone so young, but yet so bright.
#19566
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 02:26
k0xfilter
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sbricca wrote...
Holger1405 wrote...
. But even when, it acknowledged that his solution didn't work anymore, and so there must be a new one.
And...we know who are the wardens (i dont know the name in english version, the little animals in the citadel, everytime busy on the consoles)? i think they should have a bigger role in this story...who are them? Who built them? They created starchild? What are they doing when i arrive on the citadel? the galaxy is going to be destroyed and they are playing.... tetris?!
They're called Keepers
.
*Mass Effect 1 Spoiler*
Well in Mass Effect 1, Saren and Sovereign almost brought the Reapers with the help of the Keepers to the Citadel. And if you have scanned them in Mass Effect 1, you would have get an Email from the Scientist you helped back then, that the Keepers are as old as the Citadel (im not shure what it said, but i think it was something like that).
*Mass Effect 1 Spoiler end*
ps: sorry for my bad english
#19567
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 02:39
Voodoo-j
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Very interesting
This brings light to a lot of quesitons I see pop up in here.
The source is supposedly from Bioware..
http://social.biowar...index/11154234
It would be nice to see something official.
This brings light to a lot of quesitons I see pop up in here.
The source is supposedly from Bioware..
http://social.biowar...index/11154234
It would be nice to see something official.
Modifié par Voodoo-j, 06 mai 2012 - 02:39 .
#19568
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 03:13
BalianOfIbelin
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Check out the alternate ending I created:
http://social.biowar.../index/11739343
Would love feedback and reactions. Thanks all.
http://social.biowar.../index/11739343
Would love feedback and reactions. Thanks all.
Modifié par BalianOfIbelin, 06 mai 2012 - 03:13 .
#19569
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 03:21
cyrslash1974
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Hi from France
I really hope that Bioware is considering all options to prepare this DLC.
I respect their artistic integrity on ME3 endings (even if I am not really happy with them), but their artististic vision has to be in line with the scenario and the story.
To summarize quickly, StarChild (in the form of the child whose death has traumatized Shepard) explained to Shep that war between organics and synthetics is inevitable, that synthetics always face their creator, and the cycle (harvest organic species evolved) was his solution to avoid chaos.
Realizing that his solution does not work any more, he proposed to Shepard to find a new solution:
a) Either the control (blue): Shepard becomes a reaper and could control them = peace preserved, Shepard "dies";
Or the Destruction (red): the reapers are destroyed as well as all synthetic = Gueths and IDA seem to be destroyed, Shepard could survive;
c) Or the Synthesis (green): creation of a DNA half-organic, semi-synthetic = peace preserved, Shepard dies (the worst solution in my opinion, because every race is losing its own identity).
But as MY Shepard proved that peace is possible between organics and synthetics (remember Rannoch), so the war can be avoided, he should be able to challenge the point of view and the existing solutions proposed by StarChild, which are now "stone age" solutions, and could request a new one (and new color) : the destruction of the reapers, and only the reapers (paragon). And why not a happy ending ?
Please Bioware, consider all options !
PS : sorry for my poor english.
I really hope that Bioware is considering all options to prepare this DLC.
I respect their artistic integrity on ME3 endings (even if I am not really happy with them), but their artististic vision has to be in line with the scenario and the story.
To summarize quickly, StarChild (in the form of the child whose death has traumatized Shepard) explained to Shep that war between organics and synthetics is inevitable, that synthetics always face their creator, and the cycle (harvest organic species evolved) was his solution to avoid chaos.
Realizing that his solution does not work any more, he proposed to Shepard to find a new solution:
a) Either the control (blue): Shepard becomes a reaper and could control them = peace preserved, Shepard "dies";
Or the Destruction (red): the reapers are destroyed as well as all synthetic = Gueths and IDA seem to be destroyed, Shepard could survive;c) Or the Synthesis (green): creation of a DNA half-organic, semi-synthetic = peace preserved, Shepard dies (the worst solution in my opinion, because every race is losing its own identity).
But as MY Shepard proved that peace is possible between organics and synthetics (remember Rannoch), so the war can be avoided, he should be able to challenge the point of view and the existing solutions proposed by StarChild, which are now "stone age" solutions, and could request a new one (and new color) : the destruction of the reapers, and only the reapers (paragon). And why not a happy ending ?
Please Bioware, consider all options !
PS : sorry for my poor english.
#19570
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 03:24
Redbelle
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k0xfilter wrote...
sbricca wrote...
Holger1405 wrote...
. But even when, it acknowledged that his solution didn't work anymore, and so there must be a new one.
And...we know who are the wardens (i dont know the name in english version, the little animals in the citadel, everytime busy on the consoles)? i think they should have a bigger role in this story...who are them? Who built them? They created starchild? What are they doing when i arrive on the citadel? the galaxy is going to be destroyed and they are playing.... tetris?!
They're called Keepers
.
*Mass Effect 1 Spoiler*
Well in Mass Effect 1, Saren and Sovereign almost brought the Reapers with the help of the Keepers to the Citadel. And if you have scanned them in Mass Effect 1, you would have get an Email from the Scientist you helped back then, that the Keepers are as old as the Citadel (im not shure what it said, but i think it was something like that).
*Mass Effect 1 Spoiler end*
ps: sorry for my bad english
Specifically the keepers are there to keep the citadel in good condition over the course of the cycle because the citdadel is a mass relay. The keepers open the relay and in come the Rapers in dark space. The reason this does not happen is because the Protheans discover the secret of the keepers and change their recieving signal so when the Reapers transmit the keepers don't respond. Ever since then they have been a handy plot device to explain why the citadel looks so good. They repair and keep essestial functions maintained that no one on the citadel knows about.
#19571
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 03:34
3DandBeyond
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A lot of great posts here.
I just want to go back to the whole thing of artistic integrity. Artists have a vision certainly, but they do ultimately want it to strike a chord with the viewer, reader, whatever. Video game devs, generally don't want that to be a negative chord.
A recurring thing I often see on this and other threads-I read a lot of them, is that those that are ok with the ending are generally just that, ok with it. Very few say it was just awesome and spectacular and many even point out there were some things that bothered them or that they didn't care for but it was ok. Well, that is high praise.
On the flip side, most of those that say up front that they didn't like it, really, really don't like it. I will say there has never been a video game ending that I have felt this strongly about and the list of games I have played would take up a sizable chunk of space here. I've played games that didn't have much of an ending and didn't care. I've played games that had closed off endings when they shouldn't have (Fallout 3), didn't like it, never protested about it, and saw it fixed-for whatever reason, fans, DLC. Doesn't matter, it was changed. The point is, I have never posted any complaint about a video game on the dev's own site before. And, I've only ever discussed at length huge problems with one other video game. But that was something that literally broke the game.
I discuss this game here and now because I love ME. It was the game I always wanted to play, warts and all. It features a main recurrent very potent story which is evocative of some Shakespearean line, "To be or not to be." It calls into question some gut-wrenching decisions that whole races of people made and current decisions that one will, one force will help to forge. It's a constant throughout the game. Shepard is told s/he has a lot riding on his/her shoulders, but is also repeatedly told that s/he is not alone.
In light of all this, it's so easy to see how the ending fails.
There are many ways the ending just veers off course. But, the bottom line for me is that I don't even need to analyze what I don't like about it-I do that in order to explain myself and have done it in the hopes that all of us that think this way may be heard.
The bottom line for me was that I didn't like it. I couldn't figure out how I could so love the other 2.99 games and just hate the ending so much, but the answer was quick in coming. At the end, it still is all about Shepard. Shepard is not the same person anymore. Shepard has to make a decision that s/he just wouldn't. Shepard acquiesces in a truly gutless manner and then seems to think this star kid makes sense. Somebody please find the real Shepard.
And with the ending, the intelligence of people that have played these games has been so under-estimated as to be ridiculous. Any ending that requires an undo amount of speculation and argumentative interpretation where people even have to speculate to form a foundation for speculation is not up to the intelligence of ME's audience.
They had a story and then created a mini-story at the end to wrap up a 3 game series. It's kind of like abandoning the main quest and making a side quest the focus of the game.
I just want to go back to the whole thing of artistic integrity. Artists have a vision certainly, but they do ultimately want it to strike a chord with the viewer, reader, whatever. Video game devs, generally don't want that to be a negative chord.
A recurring thing I often see on this and other threads-I read a lot of them, is that those that are ok with the ending are generally just that, ok with it. Very few say it was just awesome and spectacular and many even point out there were some things that bothered them or that they didn't care for but it was ok. Well, that is high praise.
On the flip side, most of those that say up front that they didn't like it, really, really don't like it. I will say there has never been a video game ending that I have felt this strongly about and the list of games I have played would take up a sizable chunk of space here. I've played games that didn't have much of an ending and didn't care. I've played games that had closed off endings when they shouldn't have (Fallout 3), didn't like it, never protested about it, and saw it fixed-for whatever reason, fans, DLC. Doesn't matter, it was changed. The point is, I have never posted any complaint about a video game on the dev's own site before. And, I've only ever discussed at length huge problems with one other video game. But that was something that literally broke the game.
I discuss this game here and now because I love ME. It was the game I always wanted to play, warts and all. It features a main recurrent very potent story which is evocative of some Shakespearean line, "To be or not to be." It calls into question some gut-wrenching decisions that whole races of people made and current decisions that one will, one force will help to forge. It's a constant throughout the game. Shepard is told s/he has a lot riding on his/her shoulders, but is also repeatedly told that s/he is not alone.
In light of all this, it's so easy to see how the ending fails.
There are many ways the ending just veers off course. But, the bottom line for me is that I don't even need to analyze what I don't like about it-I do that in order to explain myself and have done it in the hopes that all of us that think this way may be heard.
The bottom line for me was that I didn't like it. I couldn't figure out how I could so love the other 2.99 games and just hate the ending so much, but the answer was quick in coming. At the end, it still is all about Shepard. Shepard is not the same person anymore. Shepard has to make a decision that s/he just wouldn't. Shepard acquiesces in a truly gutless manner and then seems to think this star kid makes sense. Somebody please find the real Shepard.
And with the ending, the intelligence of people that have played these games has been so under-estimated as to be ridiculous. Any ending that requires an undo amount of speculation and argumentative interpretation where people even have to speculate to form a foundation for speculation is not up to the intelligence of ME's audience.
They had a story and then created a mini-story at the end to wrap up a 3 game series. It's kind of like abandoning the main quest and making a side quest the focus of the game.
Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 06 mai 2012 - 03:38 .
#19572
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 03:59
MtOMajorCat0311
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- Members
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Mercath wrote...
I would like to thank BioWare for one of the best gameplay experiences I've ever had.
I played ME1, ME2 and ME3, importing saves from one to the other.
The entire series is a masterpiece of storytelling, fiction, gameplay and emotional journeys.
I was terribly sad when Mordin died curing the genophage. I was sad, yet proud, when Thane died after saving the Salarian councillor. I was honoured to have fought alonside Garrus for three games.
I was also especially moved by my Shepard's romance with Liara (thanks to the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, I romanced Liara for all three games). The final moment with Liara on Earth was beautiful.
To have three games offer so much great fiction, and great action gameplay (especially ME3) is a testament to the developers who worked on it for so many years.
The epic heights of the Mass Effect trilogy are, however, sadly brought crashing down in the last 10 minutes of ME3. I didnt' think it was possible for such an epic journey through 100+ hours of gameplay spanning three games and numerous DLCs to be utterly destroyed by one of the worst endings I've ever played.
Hopefully this will be rectified in the near future.
I respect BioWare/EA's right to defend their ending, but given the overwhelming negative response to it, it's clear they're wrong. The ending is an insult to the 100+ hours of time I've spend on the triology, and the attachment I've developed to the characters.
What's wrong with a happy ending? Real life sucks enough as it is, I play games to escape reality, and a happy ending for those of us who played a pure Paragon and completed all the necessary missions across all three games isn't too much to ask, is it?
This probably deserves a sticky, as it summarizes what most of us feel. Well done.
#19573
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 04:19
Voodoo-j
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Yes I definitely don't want them to overlook that no matter how the ending is, there is nothing that can replace the experience. I couldn't have asked for it to be done better, life was given to ME, and it's that which makes us so tied to the ending.
Very few games I would even care if the ending matched to my expectations as I'm not so deeply tied to it. So that in of itself shows that the ME series is beyond one of the greatest series ever. Definitely one of the top 5 game experiences I've had in over 20 years of gaming.
I think I understand what the ending is supposed to be, and while it's not as epic as I'd like, or necessary exactly what I want, my guess is whatever the outcome of the dlc, it will be well thought out and deeply felt.
Very few games I would even care if the ending matched to my expectations as I'm not so deeply tied to it. So that in of itself shows that the ME series is beyond one of the greatest series ever. Definitely one of the top 5 game experiences I've had in over 20 years of gaming.
I think I understand what the ending is supposed to be, and while it's not as epic as I'd like, or necessary exactly what I want, my guess is whatever the outcome of the dlc, it will be well thought out and deeply felt.
#19574
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 04:32
Jokoro
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783 pages later... I don't know if Bioware is still listening. But it is worth a shot, right? Guys, you are fantastic storytellers. I study history, and I know that when a cultural historian looks back at rise of games as a artistic medium akin to literature and film, they will probably cite Mass Effect as an example. Fantastic. But, I know you're human. Bad decisions happen. Good ideas on paper turn out less than stellar in execution. It happens.
So you can set this right and change the ending. Please don't adopt the indoctrination theory - if it was your intention throughout the entire process, kudos for the amazing idea, but UTTER SHAME for withholding the "true ending" - and just have it bring the closure we all need along the narrative coherence the series carried for 99% of the journey.
You created a brilliant gem, Just add the last bit of polish...
So you can set this right and change the ending. Please don't adopt the indoctrination theory - if it was your intention throughout the entire process, kudos for the amazing idea, but UTTER SHAME for withholding the "true ending" - and just have it bring the closure we all need along the narrative coherence the series carried for 99% of the journey.
You created a brilliant gem, Just add the last bit of polish...
#19575
Posté 06 mai 2012 - 05:14
3DandBeyond
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- Members
- 7 579 messages
Mercath wrote...
I would like to thank BioWare for one of the best gameplay experiences I've ever had.
I played ME1, ME2 and ME3, importing saves from one to the other.
The entire series is a masterpiece of storytelling, fiction, gameplay and emotional journeys.
I was terribly sad when Mordin died curing the genophage. I was sad, yet proud, when Thane died after saving the Salarian councillor. I was honoured to have fought alonside Garrus for three games.
I was also especially moved by my Shepard's romance with Liara (thanks to the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, I romanced Liara for all three games). The final moment with Liara on Earth was beautiful.
To have three games offer so much great fiction, and great action gameplay (especially ME3) is a testament to the developers who worked on it for so many years.
The epic heights of the Mass Effect trilogy are, however, sadly brought crashing down in the last 10 minutes of ME3. I didnt' think it was possible for such an epic journey through 100+ hours of gameplay spanning three games and numerous DLCs to be utterly destroyed by one of the worst endings I've ever played.
Hopefully this will be rectified in the near future.
I respect BioWare/EA's right to defend their ending, but given the overwhelming negative response to it, it's clear they're wrong. The ending is an insult to the 100+ hours of time I've spend on the triology, and the attachment I've developed to the characters.
What's wrong with a happy ending? Real life sucks enough as it is, I play games to escape reality, and a happy ending for those of us who played a pure Paragon and completed all the necessary missions across all three games isn't too much to ask, is it?
So well put and to the point. I think we can all recognize that the odds are stacked against Shepard and the mountain needed to climb is steep. But, after all the crap to have only one charcoal gasp to hold onto as the best, the absolute best you can hope to get, is ridiculous.
People say it all the time, people put it in taglines, but you sometimes want to shout. After all this, Shepard just deserves better. Shepard deserves better than to end up in a heap of rubble like so much garbage, while his/her LI is stranded on some Jungle planet with Joker and whoever else. The "gift" scene is extremely well done and so touching as is much of the dialogue throughout the game. That is where the art of these games is, within the hearts and souls of these characters. But the absolute best we can achieve and hold onto as if it's a carrot held out in front of a rabbit, is that gasp. It's like some cruel cliff hanger.
But after this we get the blue screen telling us Shepard has become a legend-ok, dubious one at best depending on what could happen after all these events take place. Even that isn't enough. We are then told that this will be clarified, but no new (fixed, appropriate, sensible) ending is planned. Then, even the gasp scene as some warped sign of hope isn't bad enough. Nope, Shepard is turned into some fool not worthy of the traits others assigned to him/her. I chose to make my Shepard an Earthborn War Hero. Bioware made her a cowardly idiot that accepts illogical "logic" at face value and limps off to commit genocide without a care in the world.
But, lucky for me she fell to Earth or somewhere and at least takes one more breath. So happy I got a happy ending.
