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[daveyeisley]

Johnny Exogenesis wrote...

Just finished Mass Effect 3 for the first time and I loved it, I got the synthesis ending. I can't wait for the Extended Cut DLC, 'cause there are some things that I'm wondering about.

Curious... what did you love about Synthesis, specifically?

[3DandBeyond]

Synthesis is discussed throughout the game and not in any good light. I've read other posts from people that think it's the best option, but it is the stated goal of Sovereign through Saren, though Sovereign also said it was the Reaper's ultimate goal.

In many ways, if you look at what they are doing and what they have the Collectors do, it looks like they keep attempting synthesis, but can't get it right. So this may be the thing the star kid needs Shepard to do. He can't get it to work and needs Shepard to do it.

What the Reapers and Collectors and the kid refer to as ascension may have been their botched attempts at creating the new DNA, like some terrible experiment that keeps going wrong. If you think about it, they do seem to try different ways to accomplish this. The creation of reaper creatures-husks, banshees, and so on from organic beings. And then there's the creation of the sludge that they use for something. There's many different ways that look like attempts at creating a synthorganic being. And the kid speaks of it as if it's the pinnacle of evolution, trying to make it sound like what ultimately should be.

Sovereign also speaks of the Reapers as the pinnacle of evolution. So I don't think synthesis is a great choice-I have other reasons for thinking this, but it all adds fuel to the fire.

[Sigma2010]

I'm at a total loss with ME3. I have a game I preordered with so much anticipation, got it, played it and haven't played it since seeing the endings. For al the emotional crap with Thane, Legion and Mordin I expected a blow your mind kind of endings. But ME3 despite coming out of the gate full throttle ended with as much excitement as a fart in a bathtub.

[daveyeisley]

*blurpurp*

[JediMasterSal_0]

I just don't understand why the franchise had to end the way it did. Blue and Green options go against everything we fought for during the three games. The red option is the only option that agrees with the overall franchise's message. Sure Shepard "lives" at the end, but to what end? The idea that the reapers would just turn over and die is preposterous. So did Shepard send a virus to the reapers that destroyed them from within as well as all other synthetic life? That's kind of a cop-out IMO. I'd rather have seen the various species fleets rip into and destroy the reapers once and for all. Beyond this though, I feel cheated in that all the time I spent developing Shepard as well as the love interest with Liara were wasted. Not only do they NOT ride off into the sunset TOGETHER, they are apart forever (even if you pick the red option). It's obvious the Normandy went through a wormhole of some sort and was transported lightyears away. Which brings me to another point. Why when I chose Liara to be with me during the final ground assault is she suddenly on the Normandy and being whisked away?
Destroying the relays? Gawd, how ridiculous. You've left NO room for another sequel. Yes, we've all heard that the franchise was only planned for 3 games, but really, look at the money made, the fans and community you've created due to the game. Can you really just leave it there?

If I could have my own ending, it at a minimum would be that Shepard and Liara live, they have a family with several little blue children and you see them looking towards the sunset holding hands with each other and a child on each side. This at least would say that Shepard was rewarded (hence the player as well) for all the time/mission done during the length of the war/game franchise. Instead it just abruptly ends.

I guess I should feel like a shmuck for getting myself emotionally attached to a gaming franchise, it's characters and so on.

It really has me believing that we as players were "indoctrinated" from VERY early on. I still say, now looking back on the whole franchise, the Shepard was indoctrinated. Way back as far as the first game when he gets infused with the reaper flashbacks. From then on, it just doesn't matter what you do as the ending is one of only three options. One is the most obvious choice (destroy), while the other two, especially synthesis shows more of the indoctrinated theory coming into play.

Please don't get me wrong. I LOVE the franchise. It's the ending that left a LOT to be desired. I know there is to be an expansion of the ending explaining it more. However, I for one, among MANY others feel that just isn't enough, given what we put into the franchise as well. Without we fans coming back for two more games, you (Bioware) would have never had the option to end the game the way you did.

I'd MUCH prefer a third disc that gives us a more humane ending with Shepard clearly living and being reward by being with his/her love interest, no matter who that is. And that would also leave it open enough for a sequel, which I'd say many of we fans would LOVE to buy.

Respectfully
-Sal

[3DandBeyond]

@JediMasterSal_0,
This is a completely misunderstood thing.

There are many people that for some reason think that a happy ending is something silly and I guess wimpy. There are those that think it's less artistic and true. And that's complete hogwash. A happy ending is completely in context with the over-the-top heroic image of Shepard and is validation that things have been worth it.

I can see that some people might think Shepard's awesome, grim death would make sense, but all throughout 3 games you are told that Shepard is special, above other humans, and so on and Shepard does always come back in the face of unbeatable odds. The game sets you up for a happy ending.

Of course, since it was a series, it has to do that-Shepard couldn't show up in ME2 and 3 if s/he died. But, there were rumors they were going to do just that and that Shepard would be replaced by another character if s/he died in ME2.

For many of us a happy, frilly, silly, mushy ending does fit in with the game and I don't mean just a "Shepard lives" ending, but something that just makes you feel great. I'm ok with them making an alternate ending with doom and gloom possible, but both should be.

[Thanatos144]

You can want a happy ending ...The thing is your not going to get a different ending....Thats a fact.

[falconfan1]

Thanatos144 wrote...

You can want a happy ending ...The thing is your not going to get a different ending....Thats a fact.

This is true. They already said no changes just extending it.

[3DandBeyond]

falconfan1 wrote...

Someone, maybe Bubbles, wrote...
No happy ending ....Thats a fact.

This is true. They already said no changes just extending it.

Not a fact until it happens.  I seem to remember them stating certain things would and would not happen in the ME3 ending, such as no ABC ending, and numerous endings and so on.  Were those facts?

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 09 mai 2012 - 10:11 .

[Voodoo-j]

Nothing is final until the fat troll has sang.

[The fool you should have eaten]

3DandBeyond wrote...

falconfan1 wrote...

Someone, maybe Bubbles, wrote...
No happy ending ....Thats a fact.

This is true. They already said no changes just extending it.

Not a fact until it happens.  I seem to remember them stating certain things would and would not happen in the ME3 ending, such as no ABC ending, and numerous endings and so on.  Were those facts?

I thought the same thing when the people first started talking about what the pre-release people were saying about the ending.  It turns out that I was simply holding on to false hope.  It is likely the same thing here.  I was disappointed then, so I won't get my hopes up now.  There will be no: yes the Reapers are right ending, or happy shining ending, or you lost a lot but not everything ending.  Shepard will die, just like he does now (forget the easter egg), and we will simply recieve cyan, chartreuse, and burgandy.

<-- the progression of my reaction to the endings

@3DandBeyond,
Your sig reminds me of ME2:
"you have two ways down, express or coach."-"I have nothing more to say to you"-"Not the answer I was looking for."

Modifié par The fool you should have eaten, 09 mai 2012 - 11:17 .

[Dublinguy65]

The EC DLC will be nothing more than an American Graffiti "where are they now?" cut scenes. That's all it's going to be folks, don't try and kid yourselves. BioWare isn't going to spend significant capital for something that is going to be free.

[3DandBeyond]

Dublinguy65 wrote...

The EC DLC will be nothing more than an American Graffiti "where are they now?" cut scenes. That's all it's going to be folks, don't try and kid yourselves. BioWare isn't going to spend significant capital for something that is going to be free.

I don't think anyone's trying to kid themselves.  I've said it before, our expectations are low.  That doesn't mean you stop dreaming or asking or hoping.  You still express your wishes.  When and if they don't come true, that is the time you know it's a fact.

[No_MSG]

I never expected to say anything like this in my life:

The part in Independence Day where Jeff Goldblum hacks an alien spaceship with a macbook presents a more satisfying conclusion than Mass Effect 3.

[Voodoo-j]

Dublinguy65 wrote...

The EC DLC will be nothing more than an American Graffiti "where are they now?" cut scenes. That's all it's going to be folks, don't try and kid yourselves. BioWare isn't going to spend significant capital for something that is going to be free.

They may spend capital that is going to create capital.

Obviously if they burn those that would buy future dlc and they spend capital to create it and the sales are not so hot...

It's a gamble on their end, how many will or will not buy it.

Thats all this has ever been, the release was pushed back until they were given an end date and not allowed to push any further.  The ending is not as flushed out as they wanted, it was not finished, it was rushed.  They pieced it together as best as they could to get it out the door.  Now thats not to say the choices are not the ones they were planning, but they didn't get to implement it the way they would have liked if they had more time.  (there is still the possibility they wanted to put in further options)  But none of this matters, obviously this isn't something they would ever admit to, as whoever controls the capital would have a big hissy fit.

[Voodoo-j]

No_MSG wrote...

I never expected to say anything like this in my life:

The part in Independence Day where Jeff Goldblum hacks an alien spaceship with a macbook presents a more satisfying conclusion than Mass Effect 3.

One word:

Brilliant!!!

[GNRfan26]

Originally I didn't plan on posting in this section because I felt that it would be my one voice among a sea of others, drowning each other out with points that have been iterated a thousand times. But the more I have posts in this thread the more that i have come to the conclusion that I should be added my voice to be with this sea of discontent.  There were a bunch of things I was looking forward to for Mass Effect 3. There were many things that I didn't even expect, that pleasantly surprised me. But the areas where this game fell short were particularly jarring.
I was looking forward to regrouping with former teammates. I got, "Sorry Shepard, I know I followed you when you were investigating human colonies for a corrupt human terrorist, but I'm too busy now to help you fight reapers for the defense of every species in the galaxy." But I can let that slide.

I was looking forward to fighting in an epic final confrontation with Harbinger, like i got with Saren and the Human Reaper. I got Marauder Shields, though he tried to save me from the ending, so i'll let that one slide.
But what i was most looking forward to was a feeling of pride I expected to get at the end, I expected to probably die, but I had trust in Bioware, and I believed that however it ended, you guys would make it EPIC. You didn't. I got Space Magic Ghost Child, and he has ultimate power, he could do anything he wanted independent of me. I didn't matter at all. Shepard is a pointless character at that point. It is entirely up to SMGC. Up until that fateful Harbinger blast, I couldn't stop thinking, "I need to find my old copy of ME1 so I can play back through the different classes. There are so many things I probably missed! I love this game!." As the credits rolled, you managed to make me hate Buzz Aldrin, and caused me for the first time to feel depressed because of a game. I felt like I had been duped for 60 (ME1) + 200 (ME2) + 40ish (ME3) hours of my life. I can't play Mass Effect any more. I tried to start my second playthrough. I found myself saying out loud to every character that I loved through the whole series, "It doesn't matter. Stop talking to me about saving people now because you are just angering me. Every thing we are doing right now won't matter at all in about 30 hours." The Kinect didn't recognize that as a voice command.

So now my disc sits in the case. I might pull it out when the new DLC is released, but without a new ending, only clarity, it'll probably end up worse. At least this way i can console myself with the indoctrination theory. Your fanbase found a way to take the worst writing you have done over your whole fantastic series and turn it into a brilliant plot that fits and doesn't break all the characters. Whether you intended the Indoc Theory or not, please recognize it is better than the ending we got, so don't ruin it for us if you are going to keep the god child at all.

Edit: Separation thanks to 3DandBeyond, you were right in that a huge block of unseparated text looks intimidating and unreadable so i decided to split it up just as you had. Thanks for catching my oversight.

Modifié par GNRfan26, 10 mai 2012 - 07:24 .

[GNRfan26]

I realize that was kind of long but I had really been letting that build. Instead of playing Mass Effect I have been spending that time reading forums like this and watching videos complaining about the ending and/or supporting the indoctrination theory. I felt kind of betrayed when I played Dragon Age II, but that game was consistently not to my taste or expectation, as opposed to the 1% of Mass Effect 3 that I hated. The difference is that Dragon Age II ruined Anders. And I only kind of liked Anders. The cameos were not enough to ruin all the characters i loved from DAO, like Shale, and Zev, and Leilana, and actually everybody. The only character that remains intact is Sandal, he is just as lovable and awesome. Whereas the ending of Mass Effect 3 invalidated and ruined every single character from all 3 games, from Nassana Dantius to Commander Shepard him/herself. That really really really hurts to have happen when you are as dedicated a fan as I am.

[daveyeisley]

Well, thanks for speaking up to everybody who cared enough to let BW know that clarity and closure wont cut it. The titanic doesn't need a new paintjob.... it needs to go back and avoid the stupid iceberg.

Modifié par daveyeisley, 10 mai 2012 - 03:58 .

[fr33lancer969]

yes I know that there is an extended cut Bioware and judging by the number of views this video has someone on your staff has probably already seen it, however in case you haven't just watch the whole thing and think about what this guy is trying to tell you

[3DandBeyond]

GNRfan26 wrote...

Originally I didn't plan on posting in this section because I felt that it would be my one voice among a sea of others, drowning each other out with points that have been iterated a thousand times. But the more I have posts in this thread the more that i have come to the conclusion that I should be added my voice to be with this sea of discontent.
There were a bunch of things I was looking forward to for Mass Effect 3. There were many things that I didn't even expect, that pleasantly surprised me. But the areas where this game fell short were particularly jarring.
I was looking forward to regrouping with former teammates. I got, "Sorry Shepard, I know I followed you when you were investigating human colonies for a corrupt human terrorist, but I'm too busy now to help you fight reapers for the defense of every species in the galaxy." But I can let that slide.

I was looking forward to fighting in an epic final confrontation with Harbinger, like i got with Saren and the Human Reaper. I got Marauder Shields, though he tried to save me from the ending, so i'll let that one slide.
But what i was most looking forward to was a feeling of pride I expected to get at the end, I expected to probably die, but I had trust in Bioware, and I believed that however it ended, you guys would make it EPIC. You didn't. I got Space Magic Ghost Child, and he has ultimate power, he could do anything he wanted independent of me. I didn't matter at all. Shepard is a pointless character at that point. It is entirely up to SMGC. Up until that fateful Harbinger blast, I couldn't stop thinking, "I need to find my old copy of ME1 so I can play back through the different classes. There are so many things I probably missed! I love this game!." As the credits rolled, you managed to make me hate Buzz Aldrin, and caused me for the first time to feel depressed because of a game. I felt like I had been duped for 60 (ME1) + 200 (ME2) + 40ish (ME3) hours of my life. I can't play Mass Effect any more. I tried to start my second playthrough. I found myself saying out loud to every character that I loved through the whole series, "It doesn't matter. Stop talking to me about saving people now because you are just angering me. Every thing we are doing right now won't matter at all in about 30 hours." The Kinect didn't recognize that as a voice command.

So now my disc sits in the case. I might pull it out when the new DLC is released, but without a new ending, only clarity, it'll probably end up worse. At least this way i can console myself with the indoctrination theory. Your fanbase found a way to take the worst writing you have done over your whole fantastic series and turn it into a brilliant plot that fits and doesn't break all the characters. Whether you intended the Indoc Theory or not, please recognize it is better than the ending we got, so don't ruin it for us if you are going to keep the god child at all.

I am quoting you because this is an awesome post.  It's important that silent voices do speak up, even now.  I might not matter, but it might matter.  If you stay quiet it definitely will not matter.

I apologize, but I separated a couple paragraphs-I think people need to read your post.

[3DandBeyond]

daveyeisley wrote...

Well, thanks for speaking up to everybody who cared enough to let BW know that clarity and closure wont cut it. The titanic doesn't need a new paintjob.... it needs to go back and avoid the stupid iceberg.

Great post.

[Archonsg]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dublinguy65 wrote...

The EC DLC will be nothing more than an American Graffiti "where are they now?" cut scenes. That's all it's going to be folks, don't try and kid yourselves. BioWare isn't going to spend significant capital for something that is going to be free.

I don't think anyone's trying to kid themselves.  I've said it before, our expectations are low.  That doesn't mean you stop dreaming or asking or hoping.  You still express your wishes.  When and if they don't come true, that is the time you know it's a fact.

3dandbeyond is right.

I don't *expect* them to do other then what they announced.
I am *hoping* that they do see the value of changning their minds, value in more DLC purchases. 

Why do I care? Because it would mean I get to extend my ME3 play, I get to support a company I love. Its a win win situation.

Bioware or any other company for that matter can't "do the right thing" if no one tells them what is wrong. We are hoping that they wil listen. But I DO NOT expect them to. 

For 20 years Bioware had been a company apart. They listened, and the vendor - customer relationship is one built on trust. We fans feel more like a friend then a customer at times because they used to take the time to truly listen to feedback.
That has changed of course, most noticeable with this last incident with ME3 ending and how they are handling it.

Would any of this even reach Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk? I doubt it. That they do know there is a problem I have no doubt but I have to wonder if they care or remember what made Bioware the powerhouse it was when it came to games that people love. 
Baldurs gate is older then some playing ME3 and I'll bet a million dollars that somewhere (besides myself) someone still has it on their hard drive and still go back to play it even though they have already "won" a dozen times.

The ME series could have been the "Baldurs gate" of this generation. But as many have said, the current ending is just too depressing to give the player incentive to want to replay the game. If you know that you'll get a punch in the face at the end, does it matter that the trip itself is great?

And thus it comes back to simple dollars and cents. 
I would love to continue to play ME3 multiple times. I would love to buy every and all DLCs, even cosmetic ones, just to have more fun, and keep playing ME3. But as it stands, I won't because the ending doesn't inspire me to want to replay.
So, I'll wait for the EC DLC to see if it'll give me incentive to replay. If not, I know just how much our feedback means to them and know just where our vendor-customer relationship stands.

I don't have to buy DLCs. 
I don't have to buy Dragon Age 3.
I don't have to buy anything Bioware related at all.
I am in the process of getting my wife and kids off SWTOR, and cancelling our subs. 

Because, if I am to be treated poorly as a customer and am ignored when I make my concerns known. I'll just take my money and go elsewhere.

Modifié par Archonsg, 10 mai 2012 - 05:03 .

[Archonsg]

fr33lancer969 wrote...


yes I know that there is an extended cut Bioware and judging by the number of views this video has someone on your staff has probably already seen it, however in case you haven't just watch the whole thing and think about what this guy is trying to tell you

Fixed link
Mass Effect 3 Ending: Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage

Yeah, this is definitely one of the best I have seen. We have got intelligent people playing and giving criticism but does Bioware listen? Nooooooo. "You people don't understand our art...." 
Right.

[Archonsg]

And oh btw, this fan edited ending where Shepard Lives and opens up possibilities for crew epilogue, saves the citadel, saves the relay, is so much better all because star child is removed from the game.

Fan Edited Ending

As one comment said "Random guy on the internet > Bioware"

Would love it more if it had somehow put in that huge ass fleet battle but....I'm being picky.
(hey, doesn't everyone loves gratuitous huge ass fleet battles?)


Come on, Bioware, you know have a problem, people have shown you possibilities, please don't put blinders on and stuff your ears.

Modifié par Archonsg, 10 mai 2012 - 05:25 .