23455 réponses à ce sujet

[darkway1]

Archonsg wrote...

And oh btw, this fan edited ending where Shepard Lives and opens up possibilities for crew epilogue, saves the citadel, saves the relay, is so much better all because star child is removed from the game.

Fan Edited Ending

As one comment said "Random guy on the internet > Bioware"

Would love it more if it had somehow put in that huge ass fleet battle but....I'm being picky.
(hey, doesn't everyone loves gratuitous huge ass fleet battles?)


Come on, Bioware, you know have a problem, people have shown you possibilities, please don't put blinders on and stuff your ears.

If you have been playing Biowares starwars MMO then you'll understand that Mass3 issues are small compared to what's going on over in that game,add Mass3 endings into that shambles and I'm afraid that Bioware's rep has gone right out the window to be honest and rumour is that DA3 is also now on hold.
With paying MMO customers demanding new content I really can't see any serious developments happening with regards to free Mass3 endings. 

[Kathleen321]

daveyeisley wrote...

Well, thanks for speaking up to everybody who cared enough to let BW know that clarity and closure wont cut it. The titanic doesn't need a new paintjob.... it needs to go back and avoid the stupid iceberg.

^ THIS!!

[Archonsg]

darkway1 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

And oh btw, this fan edited ending where Shepard Lives and opens up possibilities for crew epilogue, saves the citadel, saves the relay, is so much better all because star child is removed from the game.

Fan Edited Ending

As one comment said "Random guy on the internet > Bioware"

Would love it more if it had somehow put in that huge ass fleet battle but....I'm being picky.
(hey, doesn't everyone loves gratuitous huge ass fleet battles?)


Come on, Bioware, you know have a problem, people have shown you possibilities, please don't put blinders on and stuff your ears.

If you have been playing Biowares starwars MMO then you'll understand that Mass3 issues are small compared to what's going on over in that game,add Mass3 endings into that shambles and I'm afraid that Bioware's rep has gone right out the window to be honest and rumour is that DA3 is also now on hold.
With paying MMO customers demanding new content I really can't see any serious developments happening with regards to free Mass3 endings. 

Yeah. Essentially SWTOR is KOTOR3 with co-op. Just play with your GF / Wife / Pal / whatever and duo till you clear each class story. 
Don't bother with PVP,  don't bother with raids. 
Don't get me wrong. SWTOR is a very very enjoyable game. Particularly the Jedi Knight, Sith Warrior, Trooper and IA story lines and your companions are really fun to play with. Better then with some random dickjerk who'll run amok and get you killed. 

Though to be honest, at least with SWTOR I did feel that I got great value with the game, while I am playing the story quests. Everything else is optional. I don't know how they'll keep me playing, unless they expand greatly with crafting to make taking up crafting actually worth the trouble, or hell, expand each class' story into the "what happens next" within that timeline.

Still, its not because I am not enjoying SWTOR that is making me give up playing it. Oddly enough it's ME3's ending that's causing this cloud of depression and with its halo effect, causing me to not want to play other Bioware games. Even Dragon Age. Well, I'll go back to play DA:O and Baldur's Gate eventually but, for now, ME3's ending has effected me emotionally to the point that I don't want to play a Bioware game.

Moving on to Tera Online. 

[Flubberlub]

Why can't we at least have a super hard 7500 EMS punch in the genitals against the reapers, fighting til the end, maybe with all main characters dying or surviving if you've got a high enough EMS?

[Archonsg]

Flubberlub wrote...

Why can't we at least have a super hard 7500 EMS punch in the genitals against the reapers, fighting til the end, maybe with all main characters dying or surviving if you've got a high enough EMS?

Actually with MP, I have 4000++ (and I'll be getting more) from my N7 assets alone, all in all I could be looking at a 10,000 ems score. Would this mean anything?
NADA.
NOTHING.


Would have been epic to see N7 squads tearing up Reaper forces, Krogan BattleMasters zipping and going "Arrrrrhhhahahahaha!!!" as they smash Cannibals into pulp, Turian , Drell, with Asari commando (throw in Jack and her charges for even more "epicness") support, Defected Cerberus troops with Atlases in Alliance colors duking it out with Ravagers....and so on.

COULD HAVE BEEN EPIC.

But, we get to choose between 3 suicide options. Yay!

[Holger1405]

daveyeisley wrote...

@holger

I think either you have not done enough reading on this topic, or maybe you are willfully ignoring facts in an effort to gain attention or to instigate disagreement.

ROFL "to instigate disagreement"? In a Thread about a highly controversial matter? Are you serious?

It seems you are mad at me, because I have a different opinion.
Well, sorry then, but that is your Problem.

Furthermore, what you call "facts" is in truths just your opinion, and my opinion is as good as yours.

daveyeisley wrote...
I'm not going to recap all the data that scuttled your thinking, but rather, I will direct your attention to the fact you have stated the Catalysts logic is wrong. The catalysts logic is revealed to be the premise for not only the final choice, but the whole Mass Effect universe. Due to the catalysts introduction and dialogue, the entire story is derived from the consequence of his logic.

No, you are not going to, because you are not able to, since your "data" is also just a matter of opinion.

True, on the other hand is that Star Child's logic is the starting point of the Mass Effect storyline.
But it is completely irrelevant that his logic is flawed, it just doesn't matter, neither for the beginning, nor for the ending, and also not for Shepard's whole Story.

The only thing that is relevant is that you, as the Player, accepts that Star Child beliefs in his logic. If you are able to do so, the endings, and everything else in the Mass Effect universe, (ok, almost everything else) make sense, if not, well than you are pretty much screwed, because Star Child and his logic are not going away.

daveyeisley wrote...
Neither the player nor Shepard has any power to refute this premise, or to actually fix it. The final choice is a railroad to one of three negative outcomes. There is no actual win condition. That is a bad ending. I hope one day you become able to see that.

First, the Game in itself refute this premise with Edi and the Geth.
Second, for me personally it is also complete irrelevant because I do consider Star Child's logic as wrong, and therefore the premise as flawed.  But that didn't take the logic out of the Mass Effect storyline. For the overall sense it is only significant, to say it again, that you accept that star Child beliefs his own logic. 
 
@ "negative outcomes," Let's see. My Shepard is alive, my Squad, Joker (imho also Edi) and the crew of the Normandy are alive. I destroyed the Reapers and saved Earth plus the rest of the Galaxy.
I wouldn't call that "negative outcomes", actually I would call it a win condition. 

BTW,    "That is a bad ending. I hope one day you become able to see that."
So basically you say I should leave my state of almost complete satisfaction with the ME franchise and become an ungratified hater? Thanks, but no Thanks.

daveyeisley wrote...
The choices are all derived from flawed logic, and offered by the enemy. None of them are true to shepards intent. In a trilogy all about choice, you get railroaded into nonsense at the end. Rubbish.

To your Sheppard's intend, there are Millions of Players out there with lots of different intensions.
And the choices are not derived from Star Childs flawed logic, two of them clearly contradicts his logic.

daveyeisley wrote...
As for majority versus minority... If you actually think folks who enjoyed the ending are as numerous or more numerous than those who did not, who am I to attempt to relieve you of the illusion?

Reading my post accurately would help. I didn't referred to People who enjoyed the endings. I said that there is no way of knowing if People like you, who completely reject the endings, are the majority, or the People who only have problems with the delivery.        

daveyeisley wrote...
Have a stellar day

Have a stellar live. :-)

[LKx]

Would you trust a mysterious genocidal entity who just picked into your mind to take the form which makes Shepard feel most guilty? (don't say that YOUR Shepard doesn't feel guilty about it, he's having the same dreams as mine)

[Paradox711]

I wanted to get the most out of my Mass Effect experience so before i launched myself head first into the adrenaline fused, heart wrenching campaign of ME3 i took some time to go through the first two games campaigns. It was more than that though, it was the promise of a new, exciting kind of ending which took into account all your previous decisions and then showed you something...that was yours.

Ive read lots about the ME team saying "Ardent fans" aren't happy, and to be honest i dont think even the less ardent fans were either. I dont think anyone was.

Now ive said it, I want to be a bit more positive... You guys are awesome. The games are amazing. The story, the dynamics of the gameplay and the concept of decision making in the games and the sheer emergence into such a well written story line coupled with an amazing, tumultuous fanfare of a last-in-the-series game was brilliant. No, it was legendary.

I think the reason that so many fans, or even average players are so dissappointed is simply because we all something pretty spectacular in all 3 games, and seeing such fantastic potential go to waste in the last 5 minutes of the game? It was crushing.

The team clearly put so much effort into all of the games with every aspect of the game, a real labour of love, Its very clear to all players and especially the fans that this is true.

And thats why I dont think its too late to save it either, we've seen the kind of brilliance the Bioware ME team can come up with (Anyone who hasnt buy ME2. One word. FLAWLESS.). Make an ending that is just as beautiful, exciting, and emotionally inspiring as the rest of the game, and indeed series. Give fans the closure you seem to recognise as being required, not by some, but by all!

I think people that are hurling abuse like their monkeys with faecal matter need to take a time out too, abuse wont help bethesda make it right, and i'm pretty sure that the team are all a little dissappointed with the reception of fans and players to the end of the series anyway.

Its a beautiful game, a breathtaking series and it really deserves better. And in answer to your question what was my favourite part? All of it really (apart from the the unspeakable bit which everyones ranted about enough already, myself included.) As other have mentioned, i thought it was hilarious when tally got drunk, it was heart wrenching when mording sacrificed himself and for me it was something special to shoot the breeze with garrus.

If you read this Bioware, thanks for taking the time and for such a brilliant gaming series.

Krichings

Modifié par Paradox711, 10 mai 2012 - 12:43 .

[Holger1405]

LKx wrote...

Would you trust a mysterious genocidal entity who just picked into your mind to take the form which makes Shepard feel most guilty? (don't say that YOUR Shepard doesn't feel guilty about it, he's having the same dreams as mine)

I consider his logic wrong, his assumption as flawed, an no, I don't trust him, although he brought my up to his level as my Shepard already was down on the ground without any means to achieve anything.
It simply doesn't matter if I trust him or not. In the end I had no choice. (If this is a design Problem for you, you have every right to think so.) The outcome clearly shows that he didn't lie to you regarding the choices.

[Holger1405]

Paradox711 wrote...
Bethesda

 

Modifié par Holger1405, 10 mai 2012 - 11:07 .

[Voodoo-j]

Archonsg wrote...

And oh btw, this fan edited ending where Shepard Lives and opens up possibilities for crew epilogue, saves the citadel, saves the relay, is so much better all because star child is removed from the game.

Fan Edited Ending

As one comment said "Random guy on the internet > Bioware"

Would love it more if it had somehow put in that huge ass fleet battle but....I'm being picky.
(hey, doesn't everyone loves gratuitous huge ass fleet battles?)


Come on, Bioware, you know have a problem, people have shown you possibilities, please don't put blinders on and stuff your ears.

Now if I could somehow replace the ending so it plays that instead.. maybe if I install the disc to hard drive on the xbox....

[AmstradHero]

Just because this post seems to have been ignored... I've co-opted the salient points on why the "logic" of the ending is utterly illogical.

Holger1405 wrote...
Of course the killing organic life, but only advanced Organic life. You stated that the Reapers "trying to kill everyone" and I contradict this statement.

Eventually, they kill everyone. Sure, they might spare primitive organics at some point (as they did humans in the
last cycle), but they still intend to keep on harvesting any and every organic species until the universe ends. The timeframe is irrelevant, because they still kill ALL organics. For any given organic species, under the Reapers, that organic species will be killed. There is no contradiction.

Holger1405 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
Control IS the status quo. Destroy is the state that led to the creation of the status quo. These are known abd states according to the child's logic. The fact that they are offered is illogical based on the premise.

Again, only when you consider Star child's logic as fact and his predictions as inevitable. Imho the Cycle is the status quo, and Control as well as Destruction contradict this status quo. Destruction for obviously reasons, Control because the Controller is changed.  

The cycle exists as a result of the Control - the Reapers, which are the "protectors" so organics don't get wiped out by synthetics. The Star Child says his solution is flawed - but somehow justifies putting someone ELSE in control. Retaining the Reapers as synthetic "guardians" controlled by Shepard still means that there is a single overlord
presence responsible for taking care of the galaxy - a state which has just been proven to be flawed.

Offering this solution is pointless because it is a known flawed state according to the logic of the Catalyst.

No Reapers (which is what we get from Destroy) is what came before - which is what led to the creation of the Reapers/cycle. Something led to the creation of the Reapers, presumably from the little dialogue we are
given, this came about as a result of the near eradication of organic life by synthetics. Thus the Reapers were created as a solution to this flawed state.

Offering this solution is pointless because it is a known flawed stated according to the logic of the Catalyst

Two of the three options players are being presented are illogical based on the logic of the Catalyst. (There is no logic behind the third option, so I'm not even going to go there) Why are they being offered?

I would like to agree that Destroy is my favoured option, but the problem is that it's still a shallow and worthless ending. This choice is the closest thing the player has to rejecting the premise provided by the Catalyst, but in doing so undermines that choice because they kill off the synthetic beings (Geth/EDI) that disprove it.  It is thematically inconsistent and thus as meaningless as either of the other two endings.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 10 mai 2012 - 11:30 .

[daveyeisley]

Pretty clear Holger is just here to argue and waste people's time. Anytime you offer points to counter, he hides behind the "thats your opinion" shield, and says he is satisfied.... in umpteen posts he still has yet to offer anything solid on why the ending should be considered satisfying. Plenty of fluff, but lacking substance.

I suggest we consider him "Bubbles 2.0"

I particularly liked how he sidestepped the fact that the flawed catalyst logic undermined the whole Mass Effect story, (edit:) and somehow counts genocide and murder of an ally as a 'win condition' simply because it blew up the reapers.

/facepalm

Modifié par daveyeisley, 10 mai 2012 - 11:51 .

[Voodoo-j]

I haven't read all of Holgers' posts but it seems more that you guys are misunderstanding each other, and are somewhat blindly entangled. From the posts I have read of his/hers, I don't see it as Bubbles 2.0, Holgers definitely is explaining his/her thoughts, I think it's better to agree to disagree, and just let it go.

[3DandBeyond]

Holger1405 wrote...

LKx wrote...

Would you trust a mysterious genocidal entity who just picked into your mind to take the form which makes Shepard feel most guilty? (don't say that YOUR Shepard doesn't feel guilty about it, he's having the same dreams as mine)

I consider his logic wrong, his assumption as flawed, an no, I don't trust him, although he brought my up to his level as my Shepard already was down on the ground without any means to achieve anything.
It simply doesn't matter if I trust him or not. In the end I had no choice. (If this is a design Problem for you, you have every right to think so.) The outcome clearly shows that he didn't lie to you regarding the choices.

Sorry, but the outcome is like some kind of kid's story.  Oh, wait it is a kid's story, told by the Stargazer.

The star kid is lying about all 3 choices or as you say at least flawed.  He makes you think that they are all the perfect choice for various reasons.  You see Anderson choosing Destroy.  You are told Synthesis is great as the pinnacle of evolution.  You are given the idea that Control is good because TIM was right. 

And what happens after you pick one is so ridiculous as to be insulting.  Sure, Joker and your pals are alive for now.  Alive and stranded and someone may starve.  You have to hope they can all eat whatever food they find, though there were many instances throughout the game where it was indicated having food that everyone could eat was a challenge.  Don't eat the wrong colored nuts, don't drink this.  There was even the story in ME2 of Jacob's father and the toxic food.  So, I don't know, but I can envision a pretty bleak outcome for someone.

But, even that's beside the point.  That's not happy.  Shepard is most likely lying in pieces in rubble, dying.  His/her friends are not there.  They are not together.  So, am I supposed to cheer because Shepard took a gasp?

The main thing that still will get to me with the kid is that he is there at all.  I don't care if we learn that he's going to save everybody and singlehandedly create new mass relays.  He was not pertinent to the story.  He was not needed in the story.  He adds nothing and in fact takes much away from it.  He could totally save everybody and I'd still see his presence as garbage.  But as he is he is so much the evil guy pulling the strings (he controls the reapers), so nothing he says is believable.  So why is he there?  And why on Earth would the Catalyst, the key to destroying the reapers, that has to get together with the Crucible, be the guy that owns and already controls them? 

And by the way, Destroy and all those numerous 3 count 'em 3 "choices" are flawed.  Destroy itself is shown as Anderson's choice but the star kid says that synthetics will still eventually rise up - meaning, what, that new reapers will be back when that happens?

It's the fact the kid's logic and solutions are so crappy and the outcomes so unsatisfying that makes it depressing and revolting.  It's not that Shepard can't survive (we have no context for how good his/her life is after), it's that it makes no sense.  That's just one point among many as to why this ending is just horrid.

I will say it again, all through the game you are racing to an end, that big fight you know is coming.  Like a snowball that starts as a little flake at the top of a hill.  It slowly becomes many flakes.  You, Shepard is suddenly gathering a lot of assets, meeting up and fighting with old friends, continually thinking of the final battle when all hell will break loose.  Racing ever faster to the finish and then finally racing and fighting on foot in London.  The dead are everywhere.  And then Shepard's running headlong into reaper beams, dodging them along the way, and then the game stops.  You, the player plow headlong into a wall and everything slows, literally, to a crawl.  It would take an awesome story-based ending to make such slow motion action work, when danger is so near and total annihilation is to be prevented.  But no, it drags and you drag and the end can't and doesn't pull it off.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 10 mai 2012 - 11:58 .

[Archonsg]

Paradox711 wrote...


Its a beautiful game, a breathtaking series and it really deserves better. And in answer to your question what was my favourite part? All of it really (apart from the the unspeakable bit which everyones ranted about enough already, myself included.) As other have mentioned, i thought it was hilarious when tally got drunk, it was heart wrenching when mording sacrificed himself and for me it was something special to shoot the breeze with garrus.

If you read this Bethesda, thanks for taking the time and for such a brilliant gaming series.

Krichings

Holger1405 wrote...

Paradox711 wrote...
Bethesda

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

 

@holger1405 



But seriously, don't you think that it is a sad state of affairs that people are THINIKING of Bethesda when thinking of "brilliant RPG" games? 

Here's something that is coming from Bethesda though, and yes.... it looks to be fracking awesome.
Dishonored Debut Trailer

Gives you food for thought.

[Holger1405]

AmstradHero wrote...

Just because this post seems to have been ignored... I've co-opted the salient points on why the "logic" of the ending is utterly illogical.

Didn't ignored it, just had not enough time. Sorry.

But I will come to it later, as to this one too

Modifié par Holger1405, 10 mai 2012 - 12:00 .

[Bounercz]

On the Mass Effect 3 ending,yes we will release ending in DLC ,said by BW at 2011 Comic con , so what will you say now ? that you sold us "complete" game ? you cut off Omega which will be DLC and even ending ,whats come next? no game just empty box for 70 euro? .....I dont regret buying it its great game ,but you shouldnt sell incomplete things...

[Holger1405]

Voodoo-j wrote...

I haven't read all of Holgers' posts but it seems more that you guys are misunderstanding each other, and are somewhat blindly entangled. From the posts I have read of his/hers, I don't see it as Bubbles 2.0, Holgers definitely is explaining his/her thoughts, I think it's better to agree to disagree, and just let it go.

That may be, and so I concur, we should agree to disagree.
And it is "his".  

[daveyeisley]

I already agreed to disagree. He still seemed to want to argue.

I understand perfectly fine all he has said, and I countered it... and came to realize I was wasting my time because he ignored the bits that got in the way of his 'satisfaction'.

He says the Catalyst's logic is flawed/wrong. He also says the catalyst didnt lie about the outcomes.

And then he claims there is a 'win condition' in the destroy ending.... where he kills the people who prove that the Catalyst is wrong, and justifies it by his speculative/imaginery interpretation of the ending (that his squad all live, as does EDI and the Geth).

Cant have a discusson with somebody who ignores valid points, and dismisses them as opinions., then makes stuff up to support his own.

[3DandBeyond]

The one thing I keep coming back to is it would be nice to know what Bioware was thinking if they were serious about this ending. There are 2 conclusions I come up with and both really lend more to religious under-pinnings, but I don't want to get down into some religious debate or insult anyone's beliefs. I have my own. And want to merely say what I see with this star kid.

One way he can be seen is as something that is always needed-a super or supreme being to "fix" everything. It's then acceptable for Shepard to give up real choice and only decide based upon what the "boss" allows.

But that is flawed and the more salient case I think might be made to say that it's exactly why people should form their own choices and not rely so much on someone out there to "fix" everything. It's about self-reliance and not the relinquishing of free will. In giving the Catalyst some kind of godhood, holy grail status even before they knew what it was, people had already given up their choices and their own feeling that they could really change their destiny and avoid their doom.

Because of this, the star kid is a flawed being. He's the product of Shepard's imagination (like the id monster in Forbidden Planet). His choices are flawed as well, because they are then not truly the product of self-determination, but of dependency. Shepard and all people, but Shepard most of all at the end, finally gives up and gives in. Everyone else already had a god, they had Shepard, but Shepard had only ideas, perseverance, guts, and determination.

Shepard needs something, someone to believe in, someone who will give him/her a way or a way out. Shepard just gives up to something (the Catalyst) or someone (the star kid). And the star kid represents some flawed notion of religious reliance. It seems to say that any choice made from reliance on a super being will be flawed because it wasn't a choice we made.

And the star kid isn't a god, he's a fabrication of minds that want one, and so can't really do anything. The choices given just represent how futile things are when you don't forge your own way and really try to do things yourself.

Every god in the machine has been flawed. The wizard in the wizard of oz was, after all just a man. So, it's just possible the star kid has a lot in common with the wizard. Dorothy looked for a way home, the wizard didn't help. The good witch told her the way home was with her and within her all along.

None of this makes the ending any better or easier to swallow, but it could explain why he's flawed as holger sees him and why he's there in the first place. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 10 mai 2012 - 12:36 .

[Paradox711]

Holger1405 wrote...

Paradox711 wrote...
Bethesda

 

Haha, thanks for that! You can tell what else ive been playing/reading about.

[daveyeisley]

I think the more I try to analze the Catalyst character, the more I come to the conclusion that he/it is a moron. Not in the sense of being unable to process things at a high-level, but in the sense of arriving at invalid conclusions after analyzing a scenario for hundred or thousands of millennia.

He had all the time in the cosmos to get it right, even after the initial mistake.... but just went with it. Never tried to change direction or find a better way. Settled on one solution that even he must have recognized as temporary (bring order to chaos through violence)... and refused or declined to revise the solution in the face of evidence suggesting its flaws and failure to properly account for all possible outcomes.

The depressing and insulting bit.... is after such amazing, incredible stories through the trilogy.... to have the whole immaculate space epic undermined by having its origin in the pathetic nonsense of this moronic character.

[Uber Rod]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dublinguy65 wrote...

The EC DLC will be nothing more than an American Graffiti "where are they now?" cut scenes. That's all it's going to be folks, don't try and kid yourselves. BioWare isn't going to spend significant capital for something that is going to be free.

I don't think anyone's trying to kid themselves.  I've said it before, our expectations are low.  That doesn't mean you stop dreaming or asking or hoping.  You still express your wishes.  When and if they don't come true, that is the time you know it's a fact.

You have way more hope than I do. I have firm belief that Bioware will utterly fail with the DLC. They are not fixing the ending. They would have to admit that they made a mistake first. They are just putting a bigger, brighter spotlight on the pile of crap they handed us.

I have stopped hoping because I have completely lost faith in Bioware and the ME franchise. I will most likely never buy another Bioware/EA product again.

Now if Bioware had said, "Yeah, we ran out of time, but we'll fix it later with DLC. Sorry folks," then I might have a shred of hope. But the "We are not changing the ending and am maintaining artistic integrity, blah, blah, blah..." shows that they (at least the ones in charge) actually think they put out a good product.

So zero hope from me. 

[Bounercz]

Uber Rod -Comon ,its BW you need to have hope in them ,and read what i said few posts above than hope come back to you ...BW would never abandon their fans ,but that EA ...hmmm dunno i dont liek that company .