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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#20001
Benchpress610

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Archonsg wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...
Yeah.
The supply packs are really just a scam. Pitty the fool who actually used Bioware points to buy them.
Sadly, I still have some BW points left which I had intended to buy DLCs with. Ah well. At least it's only about $10.00 worth.
 


Yeah, I’ve been playing MP for more than a month, as I can’t bring myself to finish another SP play through. So I usually hold on buying packs until I get the 99,000 credits required for the Super Specter Pack, in the hopes I’ll get a Revenant…no luck so far.


Carni X + Geth Assualt X or Tempest X, trust me works better then most weapons combo. Unless you play a lot of Gold challenges. Then ya, its Revy X for general all purpose use. I'd prefer to use a Pally X + Tempest X but my Pally is only IV


Ha!! I wish….no CarniX, no Geth AssaultX, no Tempest yet….I play the promotional character “Soldier BF3” (Avenger IV, Hornet I) and the Krogan Battlemaster (vanguard) (Eviscerator II, Hornet I) . The Krogan is a blast with Charge + Eviscerator, Carnage and Barrier. Plus the Krogan melee is something to behold
 Image IPB

#20002
LiarasShield

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Again I hope the ec dlc will finally give us a victory to any of the endings we choose because that would be cool and give us a reason to play again it is a shame that chris priestly hasn't said anything else on this thread

#20003
Archonsg

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Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...
Yeah.
The supply packs are really just a scam. Pitty the fool who actually used Bioware points to buy them.
Sadly, I still have some BW points left which I had intended to buy DLCs with. Ah well. At least it's only about $10.00 worth.
 


Yeah, I’ve been playing MP for more than a month, as I can’t bring myself to finish another SP play through. So I usually hold on buying packs until I get the 99,000 credits required for the Super Specter Pack, in the hopes I’ll get a Revenant…no luck so far.


Carni X + Geth Assualt X or Tempest X, trust me works better then most weapons combo. Unless you play a lot of Gold challenges. Then ya, its Revy X for general all purpose use. I'd prefer to use a Pally X + Tempest X but my Pally is only IV


Ha!! I wish….no CarniX, no Geth AssaultX, no Tempest yet….I play the promotional character “Soldier BF3” (Avenger IV, Hornet I) and the Krogan Battlemaster (vanguard) (Eviscerator II, Hornet I) . The Krogan is a blast with Charge + Eviscerator, Carnage and Barrier. Plus the Krogan melee is something to behold
 Image IPB

yeah. Krogan Battlemasters are awesome. Barrier + charge + mele spec + Disciple X = death on two legs. For lolz I tried a run solo, and actually got to extraction. Lvl 14. Fracking OP.

But least we go into more MP talk, even though my N7 assets are now 4200 ++ (and building), so that even though I am just past Tuchanka, my EMS is already past 7k, I am pissed that they tied MP play to solo game end results. That's a greedy ahole move if there ever was one.

#20004
LiarasShield

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yeah can't you solo silver and bronze with a krogan vanguard?

#20005
Benchpress610

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LiarasShield wrote...

yeah can't you solo silver and bronze with a krogan vanguard?


I haven’t tried solo with the Krogan. I’ll probably try it tonight, it should be a blast. I did try solo with an Infiltrator very early in my MP play, but I couldn’t go past wave 6  

#20006
LiarasShield

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yeah I'm gonna host a private tonight and try to solo silver or bronze with the krogan vanguard with the geth

#20007
Benchpress610

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Archonsg wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...
Yeah.
The supply packs are really just a scam. Pitty the fool who actually used Bioware points to buy them.
Sadly, I still have some BW points left which I had intended to buy DLCs with. Ah well. At least it's only about $10.00 worth.
 


Yeah, I’ve been playing MP for more than a month, as I can’t bring myself to finish another SP play through. So I usually hold on buying packs until I get the 99,000 credits required for the Super Specter Pack, in the hopes I’ll get a Revenant…no luck so far.


Carni X + Geth Assualt X or Tempest X, trust me works better then most weapons combo. Unless you play a lot of Gold challenges. Then ya, its Revy X for general all purpose use. I'd prefer to use a Pally X + Tempest X but my Pally is only IV


Ha!! I wish….no CarniX, no Geth AssaultX, no Tempest yet….I play the promotional character “Soldier BF3” (Avenger IV, Hornet I) and the Krogan Battlemaster (vanguard) (Eviscerator II, Hornet I) . The Krogan is a blast with Charge + Eviscerator, Carnage and Barrier. Plus the Krogan melee is something to behold
 Image IPB

yeah. Krogan Battlemasters are awesome. Barrier + charge + mele spec + Disciple X = death on two legs. For lolz I tried a run solo, and actually got to extraction. Lvl 14. Fracking OP.

But least we go into more MP talk, even though my N7 assets are now 4200 ++ (and building), so that even though I am just past Tuchanka, my EMS is already past 7k, I am pissed that they tied MP play to solo game end results. That's a greedy ahole move if there ever was one.


Boy, you must’ve played the hell out of MP to get those scores and level X in your weapons. Image IPB

#20008
3DandBeyond

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Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...
Yeah.
The supply packs are really just a scam. Pitty the fool who actually used Bioware points to buy them.
Sadly, I still have some BW points left which I had intended to buy DLCs with. Ah well. At least it's only about $10.00 worth.
 


Yeah, I’ve been playing MP for more than a month, as I can’t bring myself to finish another SP play through. So I usually hold on buying packs until I get the 99,000 credits required for the Super Specter Pack, in the hopes I’ll get a Revenant…no luck so far. I usually get crap I don't need.


I've saved up gameplay credits and gotten the Revenant at least 5 times now.  I can't get much else.  It just drives me crazy.  I did get the Asari Justicar when I used credits for the Premium Spectre pack, got 99,000 again and then the premium was gone.  Now it's back again.  I also keep getting the Geth Shotgun, but I don't tend to like to use shotguns.  Wish we could trade.


I also had hoped that promoting a character to SP would give you more points than what you get-75 per promotion.  At least if you could do that, and got enough points you could potentially get past the 8-10,000 war assets needed and not have to play MP again.  But then that's all dependent on the game being better after EC so it's worth it.

Seriously, since with a 50% galactic readiness rating, if EC is worth it, I do hope they take all this into consideration, because as it stands now you have to get to 8-10,000 war assets if you only ever play offline in order to get the Shepard gasps thing.

I know there's also the whole thing that at some point if your EMS is under 5000, Liara can die. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 11 mai 2012 - 07:21 .


#20009
Benchpress610

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...
Yeah.
The supply packs are really just a scam. Pitty the fool who actually used Bioware points to buy them.
Sadly, I still have some BW points left which I had intended to buy DLCs with. Ah well. At least it's only about $10.00 worth.
 


Yeah, I’ve been playing MP for more than a month, as I can’t bring myself to finish another SP play through. So I usually hold on buying packs until I get the 99,000 credits required for the Super Specter Pack, in the hopes I’ll get a Revenant…no luck so far. I usually get crap I don't need.


I've saved up gameplay credits and gotten the Revenant at least 5 times now.  I can't get much else.  It just drives me crazy.  I did get the Asari Justicar when I used credits for the Premium Spectre pack, got 99,000 again and then the premium was gone.  Now it's back again.  I also keep getting the Geth Shotgun, but I don't tend to like to use shotguns.  Wish we could trade.


I also had hoped that promoting a character to SP would give you more points than what you get-75 per promotion.  At least if you could do that, and got enough points you could potentially get past the 8-10,000 war assets needed and not have to play MP again.  But then that's all dependent on the game being better after EC so it's worth it.

Seriously, since with a 50% galactic readiness rating, if EC is worth it, I do hope they take all this into consideration, because as it stands now you have to get to 8-10,000 war assets if you only ever play offline in order to get the Shepard gasps thing.

I know there's also the whole thing that at some point if your EMS is under 5000, Liara can die. 


Oh, I’ve got so much crap I don’t use; you wouldn’t believe…I could set up a garage sale, or EBay sale. It would be neat if we could trade. Last night I got a Batarian contraption called…wait for it…the “Kishock Harpoon Gun I”. When I tried to use it in combat, I couldn’t figure out how to work it and I got killed in 5 of the ten waves. I had to use all my reserve of medi-gel. Lol…..Image IPB

#20010
Archonsg

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Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...
Yeah.
The supply packs are really just a scam. Pitty the fool who actually used Bioware points to buy them.
Sadly, I still have some BW points left which I had intended to buy DLCs with. Ah well. At least it's only about $10.00 worth.
 


Yeah, I’ve been playing MP for more than a month, as I can’t bring myself to finish another SP play through. So I usually hold on buying packs until I get the 99,000 credits required for the Super Specter Pack, in the hopes I’ll get a Revenant…no luck so far.


Carni X + Geth Assualt X or Tempest X, trust me works better then most weapons combo. Unless you play a lot of Gold challenges. Then ya, its Revy X for general all purpose use. I'd prefer to use a Pally X + Tempest X but my Pally is only IV


Ha!! I wish….no CarniX, no Geth AssaultX, no Tempest yet….I play the promotional character “Soldier BF3” (Avenger IV, Hornet I) and the Krogan Battlemaster (vanguard) (Eviscerator II, Hornet I) . The Krogan is a blast with Charge + Eviscerator, Carnage and Barrier. Plus the Krogan melee is something to behold
 Image IPB

yeah. Krogan Battlemasters are awesome. Barrier + charge + mele spec + Disciple X = death on two legs. For lolz I tried a run solo, and actually got to extraction. Lvl 14. Fracking OP.

But least we go into more MP talk, even though my N7 assets are now 4200 ++ (and building), so that even though I am just past Tuchanka, my EMS is already past 7k, I am pissed that they tied MP play to solo game end results. That's a greedy ahole move if there ever was one.


Boy, you must’ve played the hell out of MP to get those scores and level X in your weapons. Image IPB


Yeah. I have a crazy N7 score , here's my link to my MP stats Archonsg MP Stats

Trade it all for a good happy ending.

Modifié par Archonsg, 11 mai 2012 - 07:31 .


#20011
Mycrus Ironfist

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i want my ending...

#20012
3DandBeyond

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Archonsg wrote...

Yeah. I have a crazy N7 score , here's my link to my MP stats Archonsg MP Stats

Trade it all for a good happy ending.


I agree.  They could take back that Resurgence pack.  They could reset all my trophies/achievements.  They could take back all the weapons and such I earned in the game, if they'd just do this.  The rest doesn't matter.  Of course my score and my items are nowhere near as good as yours, but I am certain I'm nowhere near as good as you.  I'd start all over again with everything if they'd fix this.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 11 mai 2012 - 07:45 .


#20013
Benchpress610

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Yeah. I have a crazy N7 score , here's my link to my MP stats Archonsg MP Stats

Trade it all for a good happy ending.


I agree.  They could take back that Resurgence pack.  They could reset all my trophies/achievements.  They could take back all the weapons and such I earned in the game, if they'd just do this.  The rest doesn't matter.  Of course my score and my items are nowhere near as good as yours, but I am certain I'm nowhere near as good as you.  I'd start all over again with everything if they'd fix this.

Amen!!!

#20014
andysdead

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My favorite moment so far is definitely the Tali romance arc... Especially the part when you destroy the Reaper on Rannoch and have gotten the Quarians and Geth to cooperate.

Is that a spoiler? I'm not really sure. I have trouble telling when I'm posting spoilers.

I'm considering writing up a literary-style review/critique of the entire Mass Effect series for my blog. I've looked around and it doesn't appear that anyone else has attempted this, and I feel that the series was constructed well enough that it deserves such a treatment. Perhaps I'll post a link when I'm done. :-)

#20015
sdinc009

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No_MSG wrote...

1. One thing that really annoys me is people who say Reapers can't be defeated conventionally. Last I checked, Deus Ex Machina was one of the most conventional ways to defeat an overwhelming force. Star Wars Episode I, Doctor Who, Most things written by Shakespeare, most Greek and Roman plays, etc. I originally included Independence Day in the list, but since their Deus Ex Machina didn't even work, I'll let it stay.


I think you may be a little off with what a deus ex machina is so I've reposted a link to PFS Publishing with the defintion of deus ex machina. Please give a quick read

http://www.pfspublis...ex-machina.html

I believe the DEM from Indepenedence day that you're refering to is the computer virus. That's not really a deus ex machina. It's not being introduced as a proverbial "magic wand" at the very end and appearing completely randomly without explanation. It does get explained and it doesn't fix everything only provides the earth forces a chance to fight back. The Greeks and the Romans could get away with using DEM as plot devices because they fully believed that the Gods could come down at any moment and influenced their daily lives. Western styles of literary writing don't behave this way which is why DEM's fail in that style. The Epsode 1 reference I believe you refering to the introduction of metachlorians. This again is not a DEM, but a simple plot device that tries to fuller explain whatthe Force is exactly. It's kind of hokey, but serves little to effect the story.

#20016
LiarasShield

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Another vid I found on youtube that I thought was pretty cool

NOTE IF YOU DON't LIKE RAP DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINK




#20017
sdinc009

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This is a Lit Professor's take on the Mass Effect 3 ending. It's a bit long, but worth the read

Made Nightwing wrote..

So, my lit professor and I are nerds. I throw in 'but the prize' references on my essays about Odysseus and Achilles, he throws in Firefly references in his lectures, we get on great. Now, I've previously mentioned that he disliked the endings EDIT: He dropped in on the forum to correct my paraphrasing of our conversation, so I'm updating the OP to have his infinitely superior original words replace my own feeble attempts:

Drayfish, p.13:

I've never posted on this forum before, so I hope I don't embarrass myself or this discussion entirely – and I apologise for the wall of text that is to follow, but I'm an academic, and tedious tracts of self-important linguistic gymnastics is what we do.

My name is Dr. Dray, and I should start by saying: oh, dear, I've been cited for my nerd indignation. I'm surprised Made Nightwing didn't mention that my little fists were shaking with rage. But they were. They did. With feeble, pointless nerd rage.

I must point out though, that as flattered as I am to be referenced, were I still marking Made Nightwing's work I would have to circle this passage and remind him that these words are not in fact directly attributable to me: his phrasing is a paraphrase of our conversation rather than a quotation. ...However, he has an attentive mind, and I must admit that he has captured the majority of my issues with the ending, my penchant for hyperbole, and the general dislocation of the thematic threads that I felt violated the larger narrative arc of the trilogy. And I'm sad to say I did use the words 'thematically revolting' – although I've watched both the Matrix sequels and Godfather 3, so I've probably said that phrase quite a lot.

If you'll permit me then, I did just want to write quickly in my own words to clarify some of my issues with these endings, and why I thought that they erode the themes heretofore at the core of their series. Of course, all of these arguments have no doubt been stated numerous times by voices far more worthy than mine over the past few weeks, but as someone intrigued by the production and reception of literature in all its forms this has been a fascinating – if disheartening – time to be an enormous fan of this fiction. I'd also like to particularly commend Strange Aeons for the fantastic post. And that analogy: 'It’s like ending Pinocchio with Geppetto stuffing him into a wood chipper'. What an exquisite image!

So, putting aside all of the hanging plot threads that rankled me (where was the Normandy going? why did my squad mates live? Anderson is where now? wait, the catalyst was Haley Joel Osment? etc), I would like to explain why, when I was offered those three repellent choices, I turned and tried to unload my now infinite pistol into the whispy-space-ghost's face. It was not because I was unhappy that my Shepard would not get to drink Garrus under the table one last time, or get to help Tali build a back-porch on her new homestead, nor that I was pretty sure no one was going to remember to feed my space fish – it was because those three ideological options were so structurally indefensible that they broke the suspension of disbelief that Bioware had (up until that point) so spectacularly crafted for over a hundred hours of narrative. Suddenly Shepard was not simply being asked to sacrifice a race or a friend or him/herself for the greater good (all of which was no doubt expected by any player paying attention to the tone of the series), Shepard was being compelled, without even the chance to offer a counterpoint, to perform one of three actions that to my reading each fundamentally undermined the narrative foundations upon which the series seemed to rest.

In the Control ending, Shepard is invited to pursue the previously impossible path of attempting to dominate the reapers and bend them to his will. Momentarily putting aside the vulgarity of dominating a species to achieve one's own ends (and I will get to complaining about that premise soon enough), this has proved to be the failed modus operandi of every antagonist in this fiction up until this point – including the Illusive Man and Saren – all of whom have been chewed up and destroyed by their blind ambition, incapable of controlling forces beyond their comprehension. Nothing in the vague prognostication of the exposition-ghost offers any tangible justification for why Shepard's plunge into Reaper-control should play out any differently. In fact, as many people have already pointed out, Shepard has literally not five minutes before this moment watched the Illusive Man die as a consequence of this arrogant misconception.

The Destroy ending, however, seems even more perverse. One of the constants of the Mass Effect universe (and indeed much quality science fiction) has been an exploration of the notion that life is not simplistically bound to biology, that existence expands beyond the narrow parameters of blood and bone. That is why synthetic characters like Legion and EDI are so compelling in this context, why their quests to understand self-awareness – not simply to ape human behaviours – is so dramatic and compelling. Indeed, we even get glimpses of the Reapers having more sprawling and unknowable motivations that we puny mortals can comprehend...

To then end the tale by forcing the player to obliterate several now-proven-legitimate forms of life in order to 'save' the traditional definition of fleshy existence is not only genocidal, it actually devolves Shephard's ideological growth, undermining his ascent toward a more enlightened conception of existence, something that the fiction has been steadily advancing no matter how Renegadishably you wanted to play. This is particularly evident when the preceding actions of all three games entirely disprove the premise that synthetic will inevitably destroy organic: the Geth were the persecuted victims, trying their best to save the Quarians from themselves; EDI, given autonomy, immediately sought to aid her crew, even taking physical form in order to experience life from their perspective and finally learning that she too feared the implications of death.

And finally Synthesis, the ending that I suspect (unless we are to believe the Indoctrination Theory) is the 'good' option, proves to be the most distasteful of all. Shepard, up until this point has been an instrument though which change is achieved in this universe, and dependent upon your individual Renegade or Paragon choices, this may have resulted in siding with one species or another, letting this person live or that person die, even condemning races to extinction through your actions. But these decisions were always the result of a mediation of disparate opinions, and a consequence of the natural escalation of these disputes – Shepard was merely the fork in the path that decided which way the lava would run. His/her actions had an impact, but was responding to events in the universe that were already in motion before he/she arrived.

To belabour the point: Shepard is an agent for arbitration, the tipping point of dialogues that have, at times, root causes that reach back across generations. Up until this moment in the game the narrative, and Shepard's role within it, has been about the negotiation of diversity, testing the validity of opposing viewpoints and selecting a path through which to evolve on to another layer of questioning. Suddenly with the Synthesis ending, Shepard's capacity to make decisions elevates from offering a moral tipping point to arbitrarily wiping such disparity from the world. Shepard imposes his/her will upon every species, every form of life within the galaxy, making them all a dreary homogenous oneness. At such a point, wiping negotiation and multiplicity from the universe, Shepard moves from being an influential voice amongst a biodiversity of thought to sacrificing him/herself in an omnipotent imposition of will.

(And lest we forget that the entire character arc of Javik (the 'bonus' paid-DLC character that gives unique context to the entire cycle of destruction upon which this fiction is based) is utilised to reveal that a lack of diversity, the failure to continue adapting to new circumstances, was the primary reason that his race was decimated. ...So I guess we have that to look forward to.)

And this was the analogy I made to Made Nightwing in our discussion (and which I have bored people with elsewhere): this bewildering finale felt as if you had been listening to a soaring orchestral movement that ended in a cacophonous blast, the musicians tossing down their instruments and walking away. I find it hard to conceive how the creators of such a magnificent franchise could have made such a mess of their own universe. The plot holes, thematic inconsistencies and a deus ex machina that was unforgivable in ancient Greek theatre, let alone in any modern narrative, all combine to erode the foundations upon which the rest of the experience resides. (It's a disturbing sign when apologists for such an ending have to literally hope that what they witnessed was just a bad dream in the central character's head.)

I'm sure in my diatribe with Made Nightwing I would have cited Charles Dickens being alert to, and adapting his writing in response to the floods of letters he received from his fans in the serialised delivery of stories such as The Old Curiosity Shop. And I know I mentioned F.Scott Fitzgerald extensively redrafting Tender is the Night for a second publishing after receiving negative critical feedback. Indeed, whatever you think of the final result, Ridley Scott was able to reassert a definitive vision of Blade Runner in spite of its original theatrical release. Despite what critics might burble about artistic vision there is innumerable precedent for such reshaping, even beyond fundamental industry practices such as play-testings and film test-screenings. If a work of art has failed in its communicative purpose (and unless angering and bewildering its most invested fans was the goal, then Mass Effect 3 has done so), then it cannot be considered a success, and is not worthy of regard.

And for those who would respond that I, and fans like myself, are simply upset because the endings do not offer some irrefutable 'clarity' that would mar the poetic mysteries of the ending, I would point out that I am in no way against obscure or bewildering endings: if they are earned. In contrast to a majority of viewers, I happen to love the ending of The Sopranos for precisely this reason – because, despite the momentary jolt of surprise it engendered, that audacious blank screen was wholly thematically supportable. The driving premise of that program was a man seeking therapy (a mobster, yes, but a psychologically damaged man) – indeed, the very first beat in that narrative was Tony Soprano walking into a psychiatrist's office. The principle thematic tie of the entire series was therefore revealed to be a mediation upon the underlying psychological stimuli that produces identity: whether the capacity to interpret and understand one's impulses can impact upon the experience of one's life; whether one can attain agency over one's life.

That ending might have been agonising, but it was entirely fitting that the series ended with a loaded ambiguity, inviting a myriad of interpretations in which we the audience were now placed into the role of the psychiatrist, suddenly compelled to reason out the ending of those final thirty seconds with the cumulative experience of the preceding six years of imagery. Did Tony die? Did he have a second plate of onion rings and enjoy his family's company? Did Meadow ever park that car? In its final act The Sopranos gives over the interpretive, descriptive function of its narrative to its audience, intimately binding the viewer to Tony Soprano's own (perhaps failed) attempts to comprehend himself and attain authorship over his life. ...But the only reason that they could even try this is because every minute of every episode to this point has been propagated upon the notion that Tony Soprano was a man with a subconscious that could be explored, and that motivated his actions whether as a loving father or brutal criminal.

The obscurities in the ending of Mass Effect 3 have not been similarly earned by its prior narrative. This narrative has not until this point been about dominance, extermination, and the imposition of uniformity – indeed, Shepard has spent over a hundred hours of narrative fighting against precisely these three themes. And if one of these three (and only these three) options must be selected in order to sustain life in the universe, then that life has been so devalued by that act as to make the sacrifice meaningless.

And that is why I shall continue to go on shooting Haley-Joel-Osment-ghost in the face.

...Sorry again for the length of this post

#20018
Sigma2010

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Let’ s face we’ve all played games that we have this feeling that this is going to suck. We play devil’s advocate and play it anyway. Only to drained mentally and emotionally like we’ve had every drop of blood drained out of us, like we were bitten by Dracula.

Trying to enjoy ME3 from beginning to end is like getting on a rollercoaster with one huge loop that makes you scream at the top of your lungs and then it flatlines like heartbeat. Then leaving you with that WTF feeling in the end. I replayed ME3 just to search out the things I think hurt an otherwise brilliant game (in no particular order) that fell short of being a masterpiece .


1. The last 20 minutes or so of the game where first you feel like instead of rallying your crew for one final push at victory. It’s feels more like you telling them “thanks for coming this far now sit over there, put your head between your legs and kiss your ass good-bye”. Then when you’re hit with Harbinger’s beam everything suddenly slows to a freaking crawl. Then after this hallucination induced BS with Anderson and TIM. You’re introduced to a character that shouldn’t even be apart of the game at all, who gives you three crappy endings one worst that the next.
2. Every single choice you’ve made through the whole series counts for absolute nothing. Which most of the opportunities for dialog wheel options are now automatic taking away much of the player driven responses even if scripted. Not so bad, but soarely missed in my opinion.
3. Harping on the three choices here. Sorry! It doesn’t matter which you choose the everyone dies whether it be immediately or slowly. In this regard Shepard dying in the Destroy choice got the better end of the deal. It still sucks though. But of the three it’s the only one that stays true to Shepard’s belief Paragon or Renegade.
4. Joker, the Normandy and your squad. All of a sudden the best pilot in the galaxy tucks tail and runs away…..mysteriously with your squad mates. One of them possible your LI, get marooned on planet in who knows what solar system.
Your then insulted further by this “Shepard is a Legend” garbage. Followed by the stargazer (MUCH respect Buzz Aldrine) dialog referring to Shepard like he was a sheep herder who died protecting his herd. Is Shepard a Marine or a farmer? The use of Buzz Aldrine was a complete and total miss in my opnion. Using of one of America’s heroes for speak line that are again in my opinion not thoughtout at all. Just insulting of the man and what he represents! Why not have Buzz Aldrine be Shepard and Ash’s or Tali’s or Traynor’s or even Aller’s (who servers no purpose in the game at all) son telling the story of his father’s adventures to his grandchild? Have that epilog for each love interest with the exception of Liara for obvious reasons. For female Shepard, if she has Alenko , Vega, or Garrus as a love interest the same. Again with the exception of Liara.
5. Unexplainable plot holes. Even though there is a reference to beings-of-light by the Volus. Why introduce this character at such a late point in the story? Who is he in the sense of importance? Sovereign was introduced towards the end of ME1, but his introduction into the story had purpose and made sense because of the message in the Prothean beacon. The star-child or whatever you want to call him is just simply dropped in at a pivotal point in an already bad ending making it worse.
6. I was going to put it out there but I need to air it. The starchild and his logic about synthetics rising up to kill organics. Doesn’t the peace between the Quarians and Geth prove that statement completely and utterly false. The only way it would be true is if you choose Legion over Tali, rather than broker peace between them. Legion already shows that he has evolved to the point of having emotional attachment (Shepard’s armor) and true feelings. His obvious shame of the Geth seeking help from the Reapers to save them from the Quarians. That aside a Geth Prime walks up and offers Admiral Rohan aid in rebuild Quarian society. Call me stupid but doesn’t sound like the Geth are whipping out anybody. If anything the statement is completely backwards. The mission into Geth data core when you see exactly what happened to the Geth in the rebellion proves that they were the real threat rather irrational organics were.
7. And one my biggest complaints is and I’m probably repeating myself I’m sure. Player choice means little if at all. Lastly, having MP affect the single player accomplishment just to force players, who don’t want to play MP to do so? Really hitting below the belt BW.

#20019
LiarasShield

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Chris priestly doesn't even look at this thread anymore I doubt he will ever respond to us in anyway even just to show that he is indeed listening

Modifié par LiarasShield, 11 mai 2012 - 10:14 .


#20020
Archonsg

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sdinc009 wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

1. One thing that really annoys me is people who say Reapers can't be defeated conventionally. Last I checked, Deus Ex Machina was one of the most conventional ways to defeat an overwhelming force. Star Wars Episode I, Doctor Who, Most things written by Shakespeare, most Greek and Roman plays, etc. I originally included Independence Day in the list, but since their Deus Ex Machina didn't even work, I'll let it stay.


I think you may be a little off with what a deus ex machina is so I've reposted a link to PFS Publishing with the defintion of deus ex machina. Please give a quick read

http://www.pfspublis...ex-machina.html

I believe the DEM from Indepenedence day that you're refering to is the computer virus. That's not really a deus ex machina. It's not being introduced as a proverbial "magic wand" at the very end and appearing completely randomly without explanation. It does get explained and it doesn't fix everything only provides the earth forces a chance to fight back. The Greeks and the Romans could get away with using DEM as plot devices because they fully believed that the Gods could come down at any moment and influenced their daily lives. Western styles of literary writing don't behave this way which is why DEM's fail in that style. The Epsode 1 reference I believe you refering to the introduction of metachlorians. This again is not a DEM, but a simple plot device that tries to fuller explain whatthe Force is exactly. It's kind of hokey, but serves little to effect the story.


It is if you are using a laptop, built on earth, whose OS and network protocols can interface and "hack" into an alien network with just a few taps on your keyboard. Apparently aliens use Apple Airport for their intranet wireless communications. :D

My IT Security pals were laughing their heads off when we saw this the first time. 
BUT, as that movie wasn't "true" sci-fi and was more sci-fa, a little space magic :wizard: can be overlooked. 
Avatar was more sci-fi then ID4 was. 

Which brings us back to ME. ME was Sci-fi for 2.9 part pf the series. Then the ending for ME3 took a complete 180 and went so far into the deep of the sci-fa pool, space magic :wizard: wasn't just waved at the player, it was practically rammed down the player's throat. 

#20021
Redbelle

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Tbh, when Shep got hit by the Harby beam and got up with the whole new, slow mo effect I kinda liked it. At the time it was a sign that the developers were pulling something new out of their hat gameplay wise. Some new mechanic that would serve the story and the gameplay by switching up how we approached the game. And it worked. The journey to the telebeam was different and surreal.

I'm wondering why all the bodies that magically appear in stacks on Earth after Harby atk's are all the same 2 body types that appear to have Kaidens and Ash's old ME1 armours.

#20022
MetioricTest

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I think the main problem is the Godchild. The game didn't need him, the Reapers didn't need him, the emtion he gets out of Shepard is forced, the lack of any conversation with him in which you can make a choice or ask questions is dire and just taints the entire series.

Sure the buzz aldrin bit a tthe end was a bit lame and the laundry list of little things that make no sense like your crew running away and leaving you screwed are annoying. But the big gripe is mainly wrapped up in Godchild.

Get rid of Godchild and just have Shepard defeat the Reapers or fail to defeat the Reapers (or have lots of alternate endings of a vareity of kinds) and suddenly it's much better

#20023
Benchpress610

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Just browsed a thread which title is: “Why you can't have a happy ending” , just what we were discussing this morning. Boy, is the OP ever getting a pounding there!! I couldn’t help myself and left my two cents.
http://social.biowar...ndex/10322807/1

#20024
AmstradHero

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Holger1405 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
For any given organic species, under the Reapers, that organic species will be killed. There is no contradiction. 

True of course, but what is the point? Assuming that Catalyst's logic is correct, other Synthetics will exterminate every Organic species definitely. If you belief in this logic, and Catalyst obvious beliefs in his own logic, than his "solution" is a improvement, because Organic species still could develop in any cycle, over long periods of time and many generations, until the Reaper attack.

This still renders organic life completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if it gets exterminated the synthetic life created by organics, because the Reapers would kill it off anyway.

What is the point? I keep asking myself that question. I still haven't found any reasonable or plausible answer. A story should never do that. Basically the solution says that "organic life is worthless" (because it is always exterminated), but then insists that it must be protected from destruction. It can say "but we store it in Reaper form", but Reaper form still means that those organics do not exist and will never exist again. That's not valuing organic life. That's turning it into a tool.

Holger1405 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
The only real examples we do have of synthetics are the Geth and EDI, and both of those are capable of living peacefully with organics. The series undermines the very premise on which the ending is based. The only synthetic life (if it is actually synthetic life) that is systematically eradicating organic life is the Reapers. i.e. They are the problem. They kill organics. They are not solving anything.

But I disagree about that "the series undermines the very premise on which the ending is based", in my opinion, the only thing the Series is undermining, is Catalyst's logic.

And this is the important point. Imho it is not necessary that Catalyst's logic has to be right, to set the premise for the ending, or even the entire Mass Effect saga.  The only thing which is necessary is that the Player accepts that Star Child beliefs in his logic.

I honestly don't think that we're actually going to come to an agreement here, because you are happy to accept that the endings we are given are based on flawed logic. Please explain to me how this makes sense or makes the endings worthwhile or satisfactory. At best, in literary terms, it would be the ending for a fatalistic tragedy. Mass Effect is not a fatalistic tragedy, thus the ending does not fit. I would love for someone to explain why any of the endings have any sort of value or meaning, because no one has been able to do so. This should never happen in a well told story - let alone one that its creators claim is "artistic".

The Catalyst's logic is what provides the basis for the ending. It is the logic which underpins the choices players are given. If the logic that provides those choices is flawed, then the choices are flawed and thus worthless. To me, that's wholly unacceptable. Why should players be forced to make a decision that doesn't make sense? It doesn't matter that the Catalyst believes in its choices. It has to appear logical to the player. Effectively the ending tells the player: "you are irrelevant." A game should never, ever do that. If I, the player, am irrelevant, then I may as well be watching a movie. I believe that may be part of the problem - that the writers thought they were making a movie. They were not.

Here's a fourth ending. Catalyst: "You have changed the solution and there will be a catastrophic failure if you do not remove yourself from the equation of existence. You need to commit suicide for the solution to continue." Yes, I can rip that concept straight from Matrix Reloaded, and it makes just as much sense as the other options we are given, i.e. none.

Having endings predicated on false logic and forcing the player to accept those as the ONLY options is a terrible game mechanic and hideous writing. This is railroading: forcing the player to do something stupid or illogical. It's like when a game forces you into a trap, even though you as a character (i.e. only with in-game knowledge) know that it's a trap, but still the game forces you into the trap. ME3 effectively does this to the player at the end of a three game series. That is unequivocally bad game design.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 12 mai 2012 - 01:59 .


#20025
No_MSG

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sdinc009 wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

1. One thing that really annoys me is people who say Reapers can't be defeated conventionally. Last I checked, Deus Ex Machina was one of the most conventional ways to defeat an overwhelming force. Star Wars Episode I, Doctor Who, Most things written by Shakespeare, most Greek and Roman plays, etc. I originally included Independence Day in the list, but since their Deus Ex Machina didn't even work, I'll let it stay.


I think you may be a little off with what a deus ex machina is so I've reposted a link to PFS Publishing with the defintion of deus ex machina. Please give a quick read

http://www.pfspublis...ex-machina.html

I believe the DEM from Indepenedence day that you're refering to is the computer virus. That's not really a deus ex machina. It's not being introduced as a proverbial "magic wand" at the very end and appearing completely randomly without explanation. It does get explained and it doesn't fix everything only provides the earth forces a chance to fight back. The Greeks and the Romans could get away with using DEM as plot devices because they fully believed that the Gods could come down at any moment and influenced their daily lives. Western styles of literary writing don't behave this way which is why DEM's fail in that style. The Epsode 1 reference I believe you refering to the introduction of metachlorians. This again is not a DEM, but a simple plot device that tries to fuller explain whatthe Force is exactly. It's kind of hokey, but serves little to effect the story.


Correct on Independence Day, which is why I said I didn't include it.

No, force bacteria are just stupid.  The Deus Ex Machina in Episode 1 was the spaceship exploder device right off the main hanger, that then causes all droids to shut down.  Seems like you'd want your self destruct tube somewhere else.  Maybe behind a child made out of stars, who can talk anyone into suicide?