23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Voodoo-j]

AmstradHero wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...
As I said, my Shepard, my Squad, Joker (imho also Edi, but that is up to discussion) and the crew of the Normandy are alive. I destroyed the Reapers and saved Earth plus the rest of the Galaxy. This is imho not only a Victory, it is a Great Victory.

EDI isn't alive if you picked destroy. She's synthetic life. A true AI. If you're saying that she survived the destroy ending, then you're blatantly ignoring what the game is telling you. Once you start doing that, all bets are off because you're deliberately and wilfully ignoring the facts the game presents you in order to get the victory that you desire. At this point, your argument disintegrates and becomes as useless as the Mass Relays.

That's not a good ending and that's not good writing, but again, that's what many people have been saying about the ending for a long time.

I'm leaning to my theory of the catalyst lied and only the reapers were destroyed.  Unless there is further detail to prove otherwise, this is very plausible.

[Voodoo-j]

AmstradHero wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...
@ The fleets stranded in the Sol system.

This would include a lot speculation, so I cut it.

Based on the knowledge of distances in the galaxy and the current technology, it's going to take years for fleets to be able to get back to places, and that's assuming that they can find the necessary fuel to keep travelling. Many places in the galaxy were dependent on Mass Relays - with them gone, the situation may not be catastrophic, but there are certainly going to be a heck of a lot more casualties before civilisations recover. And we're not just talking one civilisation here. We're talking every single civilisation in the galaxy.

The only way it can be all roses, puppies and rainbows is through... well, denial. Or more space magic. Neither of those is satisfactory for people who actually care about the lore of the Mass Effect setting.

All the ezo from the reapers sitting in sol?  how much fuel you need?

It's the food/water that is the issue, 2 1/2 years travel.. and thats for the geth/quarians.  They are all set.
about a year for the rest.  And of course this needs the time to refit, Thankfully the arms of the citadel are still in tact, and still have communication with quantum entanglement, so the brightest minds of the universe (ok just the galaxy) are still at the disposal of the resolving the issues, and the setup of the Quarian fleet as models for the other fleets.

The crucible was built in what?? days?? I don't think it would beyond monumental to get everything setup for departure and routes planned in under 2 months.  It's just how long it takes to reverse engineer the reaper ftl drives.

The fact that there is still open channels of communication is huge in keeping the various races intact.  The Krogans are the only ones that will have a tough time handleing it.

TBH this can be argued a few ways, until there is further information, we are free to invision it as we each see it.

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 13 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[Redbelle]

Question about using Reaper tech to get galactic travel up and running again.........

Dead Reapers have been shown to still indoctrinate organics. While the Catalyst is an A+ McGuffin at destroying Reapers it has not been shown to eliminate the indoc signal. Therefore the possibility of indoctrination through proximity to dead Reapers is a possibility.

Extrapolating possible repurcussions should Indoc signal remain active, ppl would come to accept Reapers as wrongfully destroyed/exiled and seek to return/recreate the Reapers as best they can.

Just a thought.

[Voodoo-j]

My take on it, the reapers previously were not completely destroyed. They still at some level had survived. The destroy option completely destroys their conscience, soul, whatever and their bodies are rendered completely lifeless. Again, many ways this can be viewed, no info on how the outcome is.

[AmstradHero]

Voodoo-j wrote...
I'm leaning to my theory of the catalyst lied and only the reapers
were destroyed.  Unless there is further detail to prove otherwise, this
is very plausible.

So, you're wilfully disbelieving what you're being told. If the Catalyst lied about that, then what else did it lie about? Maybe this whole thing was just a sham.

If the Catalyst is suspect, then the entire ending is just a pointless suicide, because it can't be trusted, nor can any of its "solutions".

Voodoo-j wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
Based on the knowledge of distances in the galaxy and the current technology, it's going to take years for fleets to be able to get back to places, and that's assuming that they can find the necessary fuel to keep travelling.

All the ezo from the reapers sitting in sol?  how much fuel you need?

It's the food/water that is the issue, 2 1/2 years travel.. and thats for the geth/quarians.  They are all set.
about a year for the rest.  And of course this needs the time to refit, Thankfully the arms of the citadel are still in tact, and still have communication with quantum entanglement, so the brightest minds of the universe (ok just the galaxy) are still at the disposal of the resolving the issues, and the setup of the Quarian fleet as models for the other fleets.

The crucible was built in what?? days?? I don't think it would beyond monumental to get everything setup for departure and routes planned in under 2 months.  It's just how long it takes to reverse engineer the reaper ftl drives.

You mean the eezo from the Reapers that got blown up into bits? The eezo that now will practically be impossible to find/collect. Good luck with that.

If you think that we're suddenly just going to be able to magically reverse engineer Reaper technology, think again. No one has really been able to even get a handle on Mass Relays, and we've had them around a long time. The Protheans, who were far more advanced than this cycle, managed a single, poorly constructed, tiny, one-way relay.

The only reason the crucible was built in record time was because there were lots of people working on it, and they were able to (albeit with some difficulty) get people and technology around quickly with the aid of the Mass Relays. Those are gone. Not to mention that the development was following schematics that explained how stuff fit together. The galaxy is not going to make massive technological jumps forward.

Voodoo-j wrote...
TBH this can be argued a few ways, until there is further information, we are free to invision it as we each see it.

Only if we ignore the facts presented to us, or consider them not to be facts. If we do either of those, then we may as well just rewrite the ending entirely.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 13 mai 2012 - 08:37 .

[Lioneli]

All this sacrifice, all that shepard has to go through, just to get an audience with starchild. Pathetic.

[daveyeisley]

The Catalyst being dishonest is a Can of Worms. Opens up way too much speculation.

That said, I hope to hell he is full of it, so long as it leads to a conclusion that entertains me.

just want to add, on the off-chance that folks at BW are still following... since I havent mentioned it in my last umpteen posts...

I agree with Dr. Muzyka - ME3 is the best damn game that BW has made to date. Its fracking amazing. You guys did great and have so many reasons to be so fracking proud. I am on playthrough 7 now, I think.

I hope that this helps assuage some of that totally understandable pain you must feel at the audience backlash. That said, I still hated the ending and it damn near ruins the game for me. Not completely, but close. Made it hard to come back to, thats for sure.

My heart goes out to you for the sense of ingratitude you may think the fans are sending you. I understand it hurts. Just realize, please, that the opposite is really true. If people didn't love the crap out of the game, it wouldn't be such a big deal to them. They want you to listen and go farther than a clarification because they feel the game and trilogy deserve to have an end that meets the same standards as the rest of the story, something they can personalize to their taste with more options.

Do this, please. More options. Entertain and satisfy an audience as broad as the one you reached with the  previous installments. You will repair much of whats been damaged, and you will see better financials in the future, too.

Modifié par daveyeisley, 13 mai 2012 - 11:56 .

[Archonsg]

Think this vid needs more air time.
Shepard of the Galaxy whether you are pro-ending or anti-ending, you have to admit that it is a nice thank you note to Bioware.

Read that other article by the pro-ender, and he is entitled to his views. Just wished pro-enders would not just look at the emotional theme of the ending and then cite its "legendary" while ignoring glaring problems on how such an ending was delivered.

[ollec92]

This basically summarizes my thoughts on the ending (though not my video)

[SpectreA1]

 Mass Effect 3 could of been one of the best games ever, But it wasn't why. It just did not live up to what it was supposed to be. The ending is a Joke and extending it will just be non produtive.                                                   What is the point in trying to fix a bad ending by adding to it. It is still the same bad edding. you might aswell  not bother makeing it. It realy is like trying to pollish a turd. You can cover it in glitter mask the smell with perfume then put it in a box a call it art. But what ever you do to it it will always be a turd.                          

[veronicaszabo]

The game is a masterpiece, even if the ending wasn't anything expected. I'm not able to choose my favourite part of the ME3 experience, but there's one part which made me sad, the scene when Thane died. I really loved his character. There were a lot of theories after ME2, such us Shepard will find a cure for him. But it didn't happen. If there were a DLC, where the Commander could find the medication for him (for example on a Cerberus base), that would be awesome.

Sorry, if I posted it in the wrong place.
Keep up the good work.

[Archonsg]

veronicaszabo wrote...

The game is a masterpiece, even if the ending wasn't anything expected. I'm not able to choose my favourite part of the ME3 experience, but there's one part which made me sad, the scene when Thane died. I really loved his character. There were a lot of theories after ME2, such us Shepard will find a cure for him. But it didn't happen. If there were a DLC, where the Commander could find the medication for him (for example on a Cerberus base), that would be awesome.

Sorry, if I posted it in the wrong place.
Keep up the good work.

The sad thing is, if the EC does not uplift the ending, I'd still be left feeling that Thane's ghost would say to Shepard, "I died to give you a chance to save the galaxy, not plunge it into a galactic dark age."

All those people who died, meant nothing based on the current ending's face value. The EC might solve it, but it has its work cut out. From retconing the destruction of the mass relays to show that they only "overloaded, and not ruptured" to a lot more dialogue and scenes explaining why Joker left earth space to how dead squadmates appear on the Normandy, as well as what happens after.

They will need to explain how earth wil be able to support the Victory fleet, or rather its survivors, assuming the same shockwave that brought down the Normandy destroyed or down other vessels of equal or less mass. Explain post Mass Relay flight, support and recovery logistics, taking into account that earth neither has HE2 or Ezo mining capabilities, and all infrastructures pertaining to those industries have been targeted and destroyed by the Reapers.

There's. More, but as you can see, lots of explaining and clarification even before we get to our Squadmates, exsquadmates and loved ones.

Modifié par Archonsg, 13 mai 2012 - 01:29 .

[Voodoo-j]

AmstradHero wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...
I'm leaning to my theory of the catalyst lied and only the reapers
were destroyed.  Unless there is further detail to prove otherwise, this
is very plausible.

So, you're wilfully disbelieving what you're being told. If the Catalyst lied about that, then what else did it lie about? Maybe this whole thing was just a sham.

If the Catalyst is suspect, then the entire ending is just a pointless suicide, because it can't be trusted, nor can any of its "solutions".

 

I posted on this earlier, basically there are 2 options that work in the reapers favor, the 3rd which there is no real way to activte it, just shoot the cables?   Again it may vary from how you want to see it, but whats the best way to decieve and draw away from the one way that can destroy you?  Give you 2 other options and tell you that the one way to destroy the reapers will also destroy you and genocide to AI.   It's definitely a plausable, just if you choose to see it that way.  (And no I still don't like the ending)

AmstradHero wrote... 

Voodoo-j wrote...

AmstradHero wrote... 
Based on the knowledge of distances in the galaxy and the current technology, it's going to take years for fleets to be able to get back to places, and that's assuming that they can find the necessary fuel to keep travelling.

All the ezo from the reapers sitting in sol?  how much fuel you need?

It's the food/water that is the issue, 2 1/2 years travel.. and thats for the geth/quarians.  They are all set.
about a year for the rest.  And of course this needs the time to refit, Thankfully the arms of the citadel are still in tact, and still have communication with quantum entanglement, so the brightest minds of the universe (ok just the galaxy) are still at the disposal of the resolving the issues, and the setup of the Quarian fleet as models for the other fleets.

The crucible was built in what?? days?? I don't think it would beyond monumental to get everything setup for departure and routes planned in under 2 months.  It's just how long it takes to reverse engineer the reaper ftl drives.

You mean the eezo from the Reapers that got blown up into bits? The eezo that now will practically be impossible to find/collect. Good luck with that.

If you think that we're suddenly just going to be able to magically reverse engineer Reaper technology, think again. No one has really been able to even get a handle on Mass Relays, and we've had them around a long time. The Protheans, who were far more advanced than this cycle, managed a single, poorly constructed, tiny, one-way relay.

The only reason the crucible was built in record time was because there were lots of people working on it, and they were able to (albeit with some difficulty) get people and technology around quickly with the aid of the Mass Relays. Those are gone. Not to mention that the development was following schematics that explained how stuff fit together. The galaxy is not going to make massive technological jumps forward.
 

 

I disagree,  the reapers were not blown to bits, I seen them drop over, go inert.   Quantum entanglement   the brain power is still there, not only do they have brain power, but they have Geth and Quarian sitting right there.  The two races of all that rely the most on technology, let alone the best on reverse engineering. Have some faith - I guess Im an optimist, I can't help but see the way out.  Life always presents a way, it's a matter if you grab hold of it.

AmstradHero wrote...  

Voodoo-j wrote...
TBH this can be argued a few ways, until there is further information, we are free to invision it as we each see it.

Only if we ignore the facts presented to us, or consider them not to be facts. If we do either of those, then we may as well just rewrite the ending entirely.

Toe ma toe - Ta ma toe
You see it one way I see another, as I said, no proof, but there really isn't anything to go on until they release the dlc.  As Bioware had stated, they didn't think players would view it the way they have.  My thoughts are this is the most likely conclusion they were going for from everything I have peiced together.  Afterall they got 99.9 of the rest of the series right, I don't think they would willing, and completely destroy the series.  They had to have something in mind, as well as setting up a very chaotic backdrop for the next game (Shepard or no Shepard) it opens up new options, it's no longer the same galaxy.   And again, I don't like the ending, really it wasn't that I didn't dodge Harbys beam?  Not happy about the shell game, the lack of options, details.  This is how I see Shepard going FU Catalyst your feeding me a line of crap and I'm taking you out.  It's the only way I can make sense of why the've done as they have.

[3DandBeyond]

Well, I can believe and do believe that with what we've been given, you could make a case for the kid being a liar. But, I don't believe he's lying about what the meaning of your choices is. Or their impact as far as it goes.

I think the lie could be that he's there to help. He does anything but help. First off of course in my opinion he hurts the story, but even if you could accept that he is there, there's no way he is there to help you defeat his reapers. The choices he gives you are all displayed by him as being really good, but really bad. People (myself included) keep saying he seems to point you to a certain choice, but actually he points you toward all 3 (count 'em) 3 choices.

We seem to be expected to accept him as good, sort of. He is, or says he is the Catalyst after all. Or, he lives within the Catalyst. But, he isn't any sort of co-protagonist in the story. He controls the freaking reapers and has sent them to carry out the stupid enforcement of his god awful version of logic. The Catalyst has the exact opposite purpose. Of course he's lying or at best, insane or misguided. But it's not possible for me to believe wholeheartedly that he is giving you better choices. What I could believe is that he is not in any way related to the Catalyst, but that he was put there as some sort of spoiler, by the reapers, sent to confuse you.

What I could believe is that in reality he was sent there to keep you from choosing or doing anything. As it is, we just don't have the information to form such opinions though. It's like we've been taught how to do surgery to remove an appendix, but are now asked to do brain surgery.

I have thoughts swirling around as to what could be and I want to throw this one out there for fun and all. I played ME2 on my PS3 and now notice things were missing from the game because I had not played ME1. I'm now playing ME2 on the 360 after having played ME1 on it. I just want to see what parts of the story I missed to better form an opinion.

I'm doing the Thane loyalty mission, talking to Bailey. He was telling Mouse's history and called him a duct rat (interesting), but also mentioned that duct rats sometimes maybe fall into protein vats the Keepers use. What are these? Never heard of them before, but if they've been mentioned I just don't remember or didn't get the dialogue about them. And, don't they sound familiar? I know the Keepers were re-purposed by the Protheans, but if they were created by the reapers (reapers keepers) why couldn't they still be doing reaper business? Perhaps they created or broadcast the vidkid's VI.

[Halie Star]

   I want a happy ending. A happily ever after ending. I think my femshep has deserved a happily ever after ending. OK I am going    Please.

[daveyeisley]

There was a blurb somewhere in ME1 about the citadel or the keepers that referred to a secret part of the citadel that no one had access to. If keepers were killed, more appeared from no where to replace them. When keepers were done with their work, they would disappear into the bowels of the citadel, etc. It was presumed this secret part of the citadel was specifically the sole domain of the keepers.

I wish I could remember where I saw it. The above is paraphrased and may not be exactly accurate, but thats what I remember. I don't really have the inclination to go back and hunt for it, sorry.

[daveyeisley]

I do wish there was some way to use the Crucible to shut off/delete/destroy the Catalyst all by himself that didn't involve one of the 3 choice/warcrime/sacrifices.
Would be almost as satisfying as stabbing Lieutenant Bastard Kai Leng.

[3DandBeyond]

daveyeisley wrote...

There was a blurb somewhere in ME1 about the citadel or the keepers that referred to a secret part of the citadel that no one had access to. If keepers were killed, more appeared from no where to replace them. When keepers were done with their work, they would disappear into the bowels of the citadel, etc. It was presumed this secret part of the citadel was specifically the sole domain of the keepers.

I wish I could remember where I saw it. The above is paraphrased and may not be exactly accurate, but thats what I remember. I don't really have the inclination to go back and hunt for it, sorry.

I remember this part as well.  And I think the only part I really wonder about is the protein vats-what the heck are they?  My understanding of the Keepers is they have always been on the Citadel.  They keep it running and keep it clean and so on.  They do exist in the secret part of the Citadel (hmmmmm) and are replaced if disturbed, it's illegal to bother them, and all.  I didn't finish the one Salarian's quest in ME1, scanning the keepers.  I got 19 out of 20, couldn't find the last one.  But, when playing ME2 (only on 360) I did get an email from the Salarian on what he'd learned about them.  This is one place where what you've said was written.  I also saw info on this when playing on the PS3, but not in any such email.  I can't remember where, either.

But, it's the protein vats that puzzle me.  It's so similar to the idea of the sludge that collectors and reapers create.  We've also talked in this thread before that it seems incredibly silly that no one would want to know more about these keepers and just accept their placement on the Citadel (the hub of all power in the galaxy) and that no one tried to find and get into the secret area of the Citadel.

[3DandBeyond]

daveyeisley wrote...

I do wish there was some way to use the Crucible to shut off/delete/destroy the Catalyst all by himself that didn't involve one of the 3 choice/warcrime/sacrifices.
Would be almost as satisfying as stabbing Lieutenant Bastard Kai Leng.

That's the thing, as this ending is now written, I can't comprehend the starkid being the Catalyst.  He isn't working for any kind of logical good.  And the options he gives are not any kind of logically good choices.  Also, if he's been there all along and could control the reapers (so he says), he is definitely the worst evil in the game.  The reapers aren't.  They are doing what they are forced to do.  And any thing that could control the reapers must be capable of just stopping them without requiring the Crucible.  It just seems like building the Crucible is what a teacher of mine used to call "busy work".  That's something to keep you busy that has no meaning or importance.  Keeps you from having idle hands.

[3DandBeyond]

Halie Star wrote...

   I want a happy ending. A happily ever after ending. I think my femshep has deserved a happily ever after ending. OK I am going    Please.

I agree with you-at least the possibility of an all out happy ending should be there.  Love interest and friends and Earth and the fleets are saved and Joker stayed to help you fight and win a glorious victory.

Unfortunately, there seem to be some who think the ending is ok and don't think the game should have any kind of happy ending.  They think that's silly.  I don't know how they can think it's any sillier than the scene of Joker and your friends on that jungle planet, but....

Or there are those that think the high EMS Shepard gasps ending is a happy one.  I don't know how that can be when we still have at the very least the super silly scene of Joker, friends, jungle planet, mass relays destroyed (and the only consequence of such destruction already being shown in the game), stranded fleets, unknown fate of other surviving friends, LI maybe having to choose someone else for procreation if that is even possible, and many other things.  Sorry, that isn't happy.  That's confused, mixed up, unsatisfying, un-fun.

[Gaelem]

I have not played ME3 really at all since the ending. I tried for a bit. I wonder if Bioware is tracking all that user/player data. I wonder if it shows that people aren't replaying ME3 and aren't playing different combinations of characters. Wonder if it will make them change the way they make games.

[Archonsg]

Gaelem wrote...

I have not played ME3 really at all since the ending. I tried for a bit. I wonder if Bioware is tracking all that user/player data. I wonder if it shows that people aren't replaying ME3 and aren't playing different combinations of characters. Wonder if it will make them change the way they make games.

Yeah. I would be playing all my other saved games what with different romances, paragon / renegade combos. 
But since completing that 1st play through, haven't had the desire to complete my second run. 

Been playing the hell out of MP though, but that is only because I am waiting on EC.

[Benchpress610]

Archonsg wrote...

Gaelem wrote...

I have not played ME3 really at all since the ending. I tried for a bit. I wonder if Bioware is tracking all that user/player data. I wonder if it shows that people aren't replaying ME3 and aren't playing different combinations of characters. Wonder if it will make them change the way they make games.

Yeah. I would be playing all my other saved games what with different romances, paragon / renegade combos. 
But since completing that 1st play through, haven't had the desire to complete my second run. 

Been playing the hell out of MP though, but that is only because I am waiting on EC.

Same here, I have six Sheps: male, female, different classes, backstories and LI. They are all at different stages in the SP campaign. However I haven’t been able to bring myself to finish any of their paly through knowing what’s at the end. I have six other saves from ME1-ME2 I haven’t imported yet.
 
I have been filling my ME cravings with MP, which I wasn’t very supportive at the beginning, but I have to admit it is fun. I know many other people are doing the same and I hope BW is not getting the wrong idea from the player data that we prefer MP over SP
 
Off topic: Happy Mother’s Day to all mothers out there

Modifié par Benchpress610, 13 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[Voodoo-j]

I as well, at least until last night. Damn unrated Halo 2 PC, cant play online with a family account even if its the main account listed as adult with no restrictions. Unrated on PC is an auto failure against Family accounts. Once I wrap that up going to finish re leveling my engineer to 20 after grabbing the promotion achievement (they seem to be the easiest to level up).

Is there any other benefit to promoting? The minimal War Asset bonus I don't need.

Depending on the outcome of the DLC I'll play through at least 1 more time, hopefully more. But I'm not going to waste any further time on it until then.

On the mp side of things I really hope they push that further. I can't wait until a game comes along that ties in the battles with player squad mates -

ie - Attacking cerberus you actually connect to a game where a group of online players go through the station and fight their way through the level.


And don't get me wrong, I definitely don't want to replace the solo play through with MP, just have the option.

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 13 mai 2012 - 05:17 .

[daveyeisley]

Promoting allows you to rebuild that character class (each race in it - restarting at level 1) without needing a "reset powers" pack available. Other than that, yeah, it just gives you N7 rating and War Assets.

As for replay value. I am no longer replaying for the story. The ending smoked the crap out of that.

I now replay for the combat as different classes. The combat in SP is for me one of the shining bright spots in ME3.

I also do minimal multiplayer (casually at bronze because gold pisses me off, and silver doesnt pay enough for the difficulty) just to keep my readiness up.

I kind of wish the person who decided on readiness decay would be stricken with a bad rash until they take it out of the game, then they could suffer an uncomfortable and unwelcome burden with me.

Its really getting galling that I may lose the ability to replay certain endings choices if I don't keep my readiness up, because my EMS will drop below what is needed. And for some reason recently, when I try to do a quick bronze run, I keep getting dumped into gold missions already in progress without my fracking consent.

Modifié par daveyeisley, 14 mai 2012 - 06:47 .