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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#20351
3DandBeyond

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Thanatos144 wrote...

 Your post is what is called spinning.....Making excuses and supposition...Fact is in reality Shepard would be dead....Them magically having a body and the tech to bring a person back from the dead is space magic....it is even more amazing than a AI that tells Shepard the choices let to him/her....


Um real science is not spinning.  Continually asserting something as you are without even addressing the facts is well something else entirely.  The resurrection of Shepard is within the realm of Science Fiction.  The body falling to the planet is something that can be explained with Science Fact.  Archonsg is extremely well-versed on the subject, but you don't care about facts.

You keep saying that Shepard's body would burn up in an oxygenless atmosphere and refuse to even address the facts.  A person cannot have a reasonable discussion with you.

It's like someone could say green can be made from blue and yellow and you just keep saying that it can't.  This is your "logic".

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 17 mai 2012 - 05:07 .


#20352
MedivalJ

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I've honestly enjoyed the Mass Effect experience from 1 and 2. However, the storyline to Mass Effect 3 causes me confusion as to where everything within it actually fits in with the other games. I have a few things which I would like to point out with the games story and BioWares incorporation with the previous games. However, before I begin please note that these points reflect "my" opinion only and in no way reflect that of the entire ME community.

1. The Games Progression. First, the whole idea of a galactic war involving human and alien working together to defeat a seemingly unstoppable force (Reapers) is a given. We were introduced to this at ME1. The war itself for the most part from what I can tell is the majority of what BioWare actually focused on. It is my opinion that the war took preference over the rest. When I started the game I find that logically the beginning mission would be to act as a politician and get the other races to work with one another. Next, I find that while I play "politician" I am to be raising an army to combat this immeasurable force and build a super weapon which was recently discovered. Up until this point the story makes logical, and tactical, sense with its progression. Finally, at the end battle, or Main Event, the battle with the reapers is surprisingly short. The fight encompasses many very short cutscenes of the space battle, fighting the reapers in the trenches and a scene which is uncharacteristic of the games previous interactions and resembles more of a clip from some anime movie. The mission features little fighting and does not exactly fit what I would say a "hold your ground" kind of environment. It was kind of like fighting a very small army. Fight a little bit and move on to the next goal.

2. The StarChild. At first I believed that the role of this child was to make the character, Shepard, more relatable to the gamer and emphasize on the situation at hand. However, the child's appearance within dreams, while not completely over the top, causes me to question that belief do to their lacking of an explaination as to how he has anything to do with the ending. From what I have observed the "starchild" plays a secondary, if not third-party, role to the story. He only appears at the beginning as flesh and blood, within Shepard's dreams, and in the end where he all of a sudden plays a major role to the stories plot. Not only is the character, Starchild, presented as a background character but his importance is turned to that of the main enemy makes too big of a step to be logical. Also, the role of "main bad guy" was focused on in Mass Effect 2 as Harbinger. To change the antagonist which was lead to at the end of the previous game to that of someone, or thing, that has never been mentioned before said point throws the entire story out of whack and leads to confusion overall.

3. The Illusive Man. The Illusive Man I believe played his role very well, almost perfectly. He was portrayed as his classic previous representation: ambitious, cunning, and ruthless. However, the thing at the end where he suddenly gains the ability to control people does not fit well. Though it is understandable that he is all about wanting control, his theoretically actually getting it does not fit with his character.

4. Relationships. One more, if not the most unique, characteristic of the ME franchise has been the immersion of the player into its many and diverse characters. Within Mass Effect 3 the dialogue seemed "rushed". The choices and sides which could be taken were not as immersive as that of the previous games. It was presented literally as choose his side or her side and very vaguely explained each characters argument. Aside from the choice section the characters travel companions were basically that of pressing a button and listening. You couldn't steer the conversation, what little there was, with your companions. I'm not going to get into the romances save to say that there could possibly have been a little more added to the romance partner dialogue.

5. Choices matter. One of the major themes during the course of ME3's development was that "the choices made by the gamer within the previous installments WOULD matter to the course and conclusion of the game. I played through the campaign and found very few references to anything which I had accomplished within ME2 and no, if any were actually put in, references to ME1. Also, I noticed that most of the major choices, aside from choosing Ashley or Kaiden, I had made did not factor into ME3's campaign. This leaves the player forced to follow a story chain that is set in a particular direction regardless of what previous decisions were made. It's like they never happened.

6. The ending challenge to overcome all challenges. To be blunt the ending simply does not fit the criteria that were setup by the series' previous installments. The ending which was promised, and "promoted", was one that would answer any questions left open from the previous games. As stated above the ending would as well reflect the choices made by the player over the course of each of the games. In the end the game offers players one of only three possible endings and all of them are extremely similar, if not completely the same. There is no clarification to the previous questions, only more. The choices do not matter because every road leads to the same conclusion. The character dies in some completely illogical manner and the relays blow up. By all accounts the information, such as what happens if the relays blow up or each alien's biological makeup, offered within ME3's ending contradicts that of both the previous installments. For example in the DLC Arrival it states that if a relay blows up then so does that star system. The ending makes no logical sense and really just appears as if it was just inserted to make the game look pretty. Not only due to the hypocritical nature of the said information given in the other games, but it makes a hypocrite of the character, Shepard, who is making all these promises of returning when the cold reality is that he won't be leaving the field of battle alive, or at all.

In summary I believe that ME3 had and still has the potential of being a great game. The gameplay was superb and artistic representation of the different worlds found in the Mass Effect universe to be very well crafted. However, the game is lacking in fields which severely hurt it in terms of its story. The games premise for a player choice lead story is at best nowhere to be found. This premise was the base for BioWares campaign for promoting ME3 and has been stated through numerous videos. First, the games progression should at least be more drawn out at the end and feature more feeling of desperation to the fighting, instead of just having a few fight scenes that look poorly put together. It should actually feel like a war instead of a few fights here and there. Second, the starchild should either be completely removed or reduced to the said belief of adding a sense of relatability between the character and player. The entire idea of the star child becoming a major character does not make sense to the criteria of the previous games. Third, the relational aspect of the game was great the way it was in ME2. It offered more intimacy with understanding the characters as a whole whereas ME3 was not. Fourth, the story MUST be player choice driven to keep the game within confines of the previous Mass Effects. Finally, there needs to be diversity between endings else what was the point of having choices to begin with. The ending need to be spread out to where they do not reflect each other but reflect upon the choices which were made by the player. Making three shots of the same scene and tweaking each of them to be a little bit different, i.e. a blue one, green one, and red one, does not make them good endings. The problems which have been mentioned at length are what I believe to be what needs to change for ME3 to be successful. However, though I realize that BioWare is fully in control as to how to correct the issues at hand, and respect whatever decisions they come too and hope they are in everyone's best interest, I strongly disagree with their notion of simply releasing a DLC which just adds more cutscenes to explain questions caused by an already considered to be faulty conclusion. Instead, I would recommend content which expands upon the players choices and adds more "different" endings.

Modifié par MedivalJ, 17 mai 2012 - 05:38 .


#20353
Mandalore007

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

 Your post is what is called spinning.....Making excuses and supposition...Fact is in reality Shepard would be dead....Them magically having a body and the tech to bring a person back from the dead is space magic....it is even more amazing than a AI that tells Shepard the choices let to him/her....


Um real science is not spinning.  Continually asserting something as you are without even addressing the facts is well something else entirely.  The resurrection of Shepard is within the realm of Science Fiction.  The body falling to the planet is something that can be explained with Science Fact.  Archonsg is extremely well-versed on the subject, but you don't care about facts.

You keep saying that Shepard's body would burn up in an oxygenless atmosphere and refuse to even address the facts.  A person cannot have a reasonable discussion with you.

It's like someone could say green can be made from blue and yellow and you just keep saying that it can't.  This is your "logic".


I agree with Archsong and 3DandBeyond, there are more facts that support shepard being brought back (Lack of atmosphere, below freezing temperatures, low gravity, tech being advanced enough to be able to regrow organs) than there are against it.  There are also many accounts of people falling at terminal velocity who have survived with only a few broken bones, its not space magic.

#20354
antony1197

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"We are listening" Bull. ****.

#20355
Archonsg

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Mandalore007 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Your post is what is called spinning.....Making excuses and supposition...Fact is in reality Shepard would be dead....Them magically having a body and the tech to bring a person back from the dead is space magic....it is even more amazing than a AI that tells Shepard the choices let to him/her....


Um real science is not spinning. Continually asserting something as you are without even addressing the facts is well something else entirely. The resurrection of Shepard is within the realm of Science Fiction. The body falling to the planet is something that can be explained with Science Fact. Archonsg is extremely well-versed on the subject, but you don't care about facts.

You keep saying that Shepard's body would burn up in an oxygenless atmosphere and refuse to even address the facts. A person cannot have a reasonable discussion with you.

It's like someone could say green can be made from blue and yellow and you just keep saying that it can't. This is your "logic".


I agree with Archsong and 3DandBeyond, there are more facts that support shepard being brought back (Lack of atmosphere, below freezing temperatures, low gravity, tech being advanced enough to be able to regrow organs) than there are against it. There are also many accounts of people falling at terminal velocity who have survived with only a few broken bones, its not space magic.


Hold on. Allow me to correct something. I never said there was NO ATMOSPHERE. I said that the Atmosphere of Alchera where Shepard was found and the Normady crashed has NO OXYGEN content and that it had an ammonia methane atmosphere. Hence no oxygen equates to Shepard not being fried to a crisp.

Image IPB

Note that it is CLEARLY stated, that the surface of the planet is carbon and water ice (hence the snow) but the atmosphere itself has no oxygen content.

And this is the pic of the "x-ray" at the point of recovery. Note that the ONLY part that isn't severely damaged is the head. Everything else is shattered including parts of his / her spine.

Image IPB

When I saw this the first time it drove the message home, even with full armor and possibly working kinetic shielding, Shepard suffered blunt trauma (impacting against the a planet's surface at terminal velocity would do that :P) and just how severe it was. You could say I was like "How the frack are they going to bring him back?!"

But like some here apparently, I did a little research and found that the "Lazarus Project" isn't as far fetch as some might think. Now here, Bioware is asking us, to allow that given 2 years and almost 4 billion credits and a team of top "mad scientist types", you know the Cerberus "Morals? Who give a **** about morals, we are going to bring someone back from the dead!" mad scientist types, could come up with a way to rebuild Shepard's body and revive him as he was.

As many have already pointed out, today's medical advances aren't that far away. Just NOT quite there yet. But that is what Science fiction is about. Taking today's reality, and technology, then given a slight nudge, ask you to believe what is thought of as impossible today, could be possible tomorrow, within reason. (hence the 2 years and budget some medical / surgical teams would kill for)

Please note that I am not saying there wasn't a degree of suspension of disbelieve being asked of the player. What I am saying is that it was a REASONABLE degree given today's medical capabilities and tomorrow's potential.


ps: @3dandbeyond
Thanks for the word of confidence. Truth is, all the infomation is RIGHT THERE. Anyone who was willing to do a little research and check up on facts, read and undertand what those facts tell them would have been able to post the same exact thing. Essentially, I'm just a smuck who likes to fact check before I shoot my mouth off ... well most of the time. :P

Modifié par Archonsg, 17 mai 2012 - 11:23 .


#20356
Chrislo1990

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Hey guys I haven't been on the Bioware forums for about two months or so. I've been trying to forget about the great disappointment that is ME3's ending but alas it still hounds me. Anyway guys have the mods discussed the ending with us or have they continued to remain silent? Also has Casey Hudson and Mac Walters said anything or are they still hiding? God I'm just so upset at Bioware. They managed to completely destroy an entire franchise on under ten minutes!! I mean come on!!! Now they have the guts not to acknowledge and rectify their own mistake? Ugh I don't want to get started again. But Bioware I haven't forgotten about what you did to my favorite game franchise of all time and such I will hold my wallet until you actually offer additional endings that actually make sense!

#20357
Robmoo

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Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment? :)

What's done is done.  The ending doesn't reflect the decisions players made.  There isn't a happy ending option for Shepard.  Making changes at this point would just be a lie.  Let it lie.


:devil:



#20358
daveyeisley

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Thanatos144 wrote...
Um Falling from miles up easily reaches 32 feet per second per
second.....Terminal velocity.....Thus cause all the friction needed to burn up in atmosphere.....Just saying.


/faceplam

Aside from all the other factual scientific information in Archonsg's fantastic posts, the above comment shows that Bubbles lacks anything more than the most basic understanding of physical science.

Bubbles, think for a while, use google or whatever, but consider the following question:

What physical force determines the rate of accelleration of a falling object?

Now consider, is the force in question a galactic constant?

Terminal Velocity can be variable.

/sigh

And yes, atmospheric composition and density can affect whether or not a certain velocity would allow a falling object to ignite.

Bubbles, I applaud you. You have a gift.

You are one of the few who can consistently make my brain hurt as my brain cells commit suicide.

Modifié par daveyeisley, 17 mai 2012 - 10:24 .


#20359
Archonsg

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

 Your post is what is called spinning.....Making excuses and supposition...Fact is in reality Shepard would be dead....Them magically having a body and the tech to bring a person back from the dead is space magic....it is even more amazing than a AI that tells Shepard the choices let to him/her....


Um real science is not spinning.  Continually asserting something as you are without even addressing the facts is well something else entirely.  The resurrection of Shepard is within the realm of Science Fiction.  The body falling to the planet is something that can be explained with Science Fact.  Archonsg is extremely well-versed on the subject, but you don't care about facts.

You keep saying that Shepard's body would burn up in an oxygenless atmosphere and refuse to even address the facts.  A person cannot have a reasonable discussion with you.

It's like someone could say green can be made from blue and yellow and you just keep saying that it can't.  This is your "logic".


Yeah. I go like "atmosphere is methane / ammonia ..." adds a link ...

And  he goes "There's a trail left by Shepard! ...he's buring up re-entering the planet's atmosphere!"

I go "There is no oxygen in the atmosphere, it's metane / ammonia ...ammonia boils at -33.34 deg celsius .... (thus it doesn't take much to leave a contrail) " and he goes "There's snow, so there is so an atmosphere!"

I go "Yes, there is an atmosphere it's metane / ammonia, no oxygen present thus things can't burn....

He goes "You guys just want to ignore facts and spin things the way you want to see it... "

Image IPB

#20360
Archonsg

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Holger1405 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

*Throws a snowball at holger and thens hides behind a snow man and giggles* O-o


I think you Missed!  :)

@ Archonsg

Because I leaving  for Munich now I didn't have much time.
 
As I said before I have my own problems with the endings. They are not as big as yours or others in this Thread, but still...
 
and BTW, if you allow me to suggest, don't give up on Bioware, I think they will continue to make great Games. :whistle:



Depends on Bioware really.
A lot will ride on how and what they do for the EC DLC.

At the moment though, as far as EA / Bioware products are concerned, they are no longer CE / N7 / Deluxe whatever  Pre-orders.  Considering it's usually 2-5 copies that I buy for my family, this might in the long run be a welcome break. :P

I may buy a Bioware game, but only after it has sat for some time on the shelves (give or take 6 months to a year) and I can get honest reviews (actual player feedback) either here on BSN or other avenues. 
But I will never buy on day one, or trust them to give me what is advertised, till they have regained my trust as a consumer.
That is up to them. 

Modifié par Archonsg, 17 mai 2012 - 11:17 .


#20361
daveyeisley

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Archonsg wrote...

At the moment though, as far as EA / Bioware products are concerned, they no longer CE / N7 / Deluxe whatever  Pre-orders.  Considering it's usually 2-5 copies that I buy for my family, this might in the long run be a welcome break. :P

I may buy a Bioware game, but only after it has sat for some time on the shelves (give or take 6 months to a year) and I can get honest reviews (actual player feedback) either here on BSN or other avenues. 
But I will never buy on day one, or trust them to give me what is advertised, till they have regained my trust as a consumer.
That is up to them. 


I am sad. Depressed even... enough so that I have spent more time on these forums posting thoughts, and yet more time researching and playing the game to analyze it, since I finished ME3 than I would have ever thought possible. Seriously. No way to really sugar-coat it.... I have never been this disappointed after playing a game i bought.

I would never have imagined Bioware would be the company this happened to. After 90% of ME3 I would never have imagined the end of the game.

I still can't fully wrap my head around it. Worse, the emotions are still a tangled confusing mess I am trying to sort through. Im shocked at how pathetic I feel for letting a video game affect me on this level....

But there it is. I can't undo it, or change it. I amjust trying to deal with it, and all the brain dumps on these forums are part of my attempt to cope, I guess.

Back to the reason I quoted Archonsg, basically he exactly explained how I feel about purchasing Bioware products at this time. Indeed, seeing as Bioware was probably my favorite company (blizzard might be close, but WoW got old and boring and I havent been jazzed about Diablo 3 much) I will be taking this stance on all games, quite honestly.

No more will paid advertising or game journalism be factored into my purchasing decisions. There may be some that are honest, but even on the slight chance they were somehow a majority, the possibility of repeating this kind of experience due to the minority would make it not worth the risk.

/sigh

#20362
Archonsg

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daveyeisley wrote...

No more will paid advertising or game journalism be factored into my purchasing decisions. There may be some that are honest, but even on the slight chance they were somehow a majority, the possibility of repeating this kind of experience due to the minority would make it not worth the risk.

/sigh


That is the problem today.
ME3 showed with certainty just how bad the review system is as far as giving the consumer honest reviews.
Hell, some of these so called journalist, in order to defend their bread and butter (hey, I understand the economy is bad ..but selling out is still selling out) called us "whiners" "entitled" and what have you, anything but "paying customer."

Now, here's the thing. I choose to buy and play games. I can choose not to buy as well and funnel my money elsewhere. Maybe a trip to Tahiti again for the entire family.

The honest truth is that I love gaming. Its one medium that allows me to participate and get involved, and invested, as Bioware only knows how, into a game's world and characters. It is fun and it is a diversion from the my own day to-day life. It is too bad that Bioware at this point has decided to sell products with advertising that they had no intention of delivering.

Modifié par Archonsg, 17 mai 2012 - 11:18 .


#20363
daveyeisley

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A confession:

When I read the statement by Mr. Mike Gamble regarding how they would never make a game that had a "bespoke ending that everyone gets", I misunderstood the word "bespoke"

Now that I looked it up out of curiosity.... man..... I kind of wish the ending was a little more 'bespoken', heh.

Specified by the buyer and customized/made-to-order would have been something I wanted.

I guess his point was regarding it being the exact same for everyone, but to me, the larger meaning indicated that each buyer would have gotten something customized to their preference.

Meh.

#20364
3DandBeyond

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@MedivalJ,
Great well thought out post. I agree with it all. The substitution of the star kid as antagonist (he is, he controls the organic eaters) is one of, if not the most egregious errors I've ever seen in a story, let alone a game. I've been fighting meanies, not ghost boys.

Of course there's much more. I'd assert that the problem with the lack of choices is something they really had to work at. If you consider that it's the last game in the series, your choices and any end choices should have opened up far more. ME1 had only really one place it could go-it had to funnel into ME2. ME2, the same into ME3. Of necessity, the endings to them were linear, but the choices to get to them seemed varied and did lead to some consequences.

ME3 just seems to have choices, but is more linear. Of course, you are being funneled to the Citadel, but up there (pun intended), the sky's the limit. The main difference in variety of ending is basically by degree. So, you are with enough EMS at 3 choices that no reasonable rational person could expect Shepard to buy. The Reaper Kid wouldn't be trusted. And another reason why he would not be trusted is because he uses Harbinger's own wording when he talks about Shepard being given choice. At the end of the Collector Base mission in ME2, Harbinger says they will find another solution. Then the kid says he found one.

And then there's TIM. Yes, he was indoctrinated and now has mind control ability. Wow, wonder why Saren didn't think of that. And Shepard shoots Anderson and doesn't seem overly concerned not just that Anderson is hurt, but the s/he did it. Ok, what story is this again?

And as far as character interaction with your past teammates goes, the whole game does fail here. Bioware made a calculation that they couldn't support you having as many, but they did really shorten or lessen a lot of what was great in ME2. If you just take the time with Kasumi. For the whole "mission" with her, she's invisible and when it's over she's just kind of gone.

In the end, they don't matter anyway. They aren't with you and then some of them incomprehensibly get swooped up by Joker to run away. Why did I care about them exactly?

The ending is just so bad that it makes you (or me) less likely to accept what isn't good in other parts of the game. The kid all through it is one thing, quickened dialog and the rush to get your friends out of the way is another. But saying that there are some real moments of genius within the game and with some characters. If the ending were great, that's what I'd remember along with it.

#20365
3DandBeyond

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You all raise some interesting points, but I again (yes again) want to address things that were said about the game prior to its release. The bespoke ending was one thing, the multiple (too many to count) different ending were another, but then there's the impact of multiplayer. For a great many people, for a great many reasons the inclusion of multiplayer was of concern-some just could never play it so they wanted to make sure it had no impact on the single player campaign. They and we were told it didn't. That was of course well to be kind, not true.

I've also finally come across hard "evidence" that it is intentionally so. On the xbox 360 you can download free strategies for multiplayer-I never looked so I don't know if they are available for the PC or PS3 versions. There's one that specifically states that playing multiplayer is necessary for your success in the single player game. This is nasty on many levels. To have a single player game's outcome even partly determined by what is a pay for play multiplayer (xbox owners must have a gold membership) is unthinkable. And, it actually works to penalize one set of players-those that can't afford or don't have decent online connection and those specifically who don't have xboxlive gold. The fact they said it wouldn't be necessary is to the point. The fact that for some it's not even possible just shows how little they are now seeming to care for their fans.

Since now multiplayer is being required for completing a single player game, they are counting on it to make buyers want to get games early on in order to get the most from multiplayer and not be behind others who got it early and got the best armor and powers and leveled up quickly.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 17 mai 2012 - 01:21 .


#20366
3DandBeyond

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I didn't want to put all of these thoughts in one huge post so I'm separating them.

One thing that I realized recently and part of it always bothered me is the disconnect between ME2 and 3 that exists. Don't get me wrong, I think both are great games (except the whole ME3 ending thing), but other issues do come to light. I've been doing as others have-playing through the games to see if there are things that I missed that led up to the ending or other things that don't fit.

One huge thing in ME2 is the final decision-to save or destroy the Collector's base. The tangible result of saving it in ME3 is that you get a bit more in war assets (I think somewhere around 25) and the minimum requirement for an Earth saved Control choice is lower. This is the only effect of giving TIM what he wants, it is easier to get what would be TIM's choice supposedly.

The impact of destroying the base is that the minimum requirement for a decent Destroy choice is lower. This indicates a more supposedly pro-Alliance or pro-Shepard kind of choice.

However, there's much that's flawed about this. First of all, Control would be TIM's choice if he had control. Secondly, the offsets to the "good" of the Destroy choice indicate it's not a total given that Shepard would just love it.

Beyond all that there is the question of which was the more moral choice, the destruction of the base or the saving of it. It's similar to decisions you make in other areas. The damage has been done, the people that died there are not coming back, destroying it means that anything that could be learned dies with them, making their deaths somewhat in vain. Learning from it could give them more meaning. It's why Legion was saved in the first place in ME2. It's also why they were able to get the IFF from the derelict reaper-they didn't destroy the thing right away when they found it. Furthermore, how do they just know everyone housed there is already dead? There were shipmates that were still alive-other people in those "cocoon" things could be as well. The thing is huge and they only ever explored a very small area and EDI's sensors might not be able to pick up on life elsewhere.

Destroying it seems very much like the actions of a renegade or a paragon with some just plain gut level thinking. It's abhorrent what was done there, so I want it gone. But this same thing was played out with Maelon's data and more.

The other problem with it comes from saving it. This means Shepard is giving it to TIM which of course isn't something to do lightly. And in ME3 you begin to learn just what TIM is doing with all of the reaper stuff he's amassing. Saving the base should have a real impact, not just minor stat adjustments. There's an awful lot to be learned there, but you ultimately learn that TIM has been indoctrinated. So, if he has the Collector's base, the reapers have the Collector's base. They could actively help him to quickly utilize it for his own purposes. I would have thought it would have more of a meaning in ME3, but it means almost nothing. And yet, this was a major decision in ME2-the final decision. I struggled with it and didn't want TIM to get it. But in ME3, he sort of recreates the data from it. Now that's space magic.

#20367
LiarasShield

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Thanatos144 wrote...

okay all sleepy time for me so have fun complaining.....By the way......Blue people using alien DNA to reproduce is space magic as well......That would be like a dog having a human baby.


You do know that asexual creatures or animals do exist in our world and isn't just only a part of science fiction?

#20368
LiarasShield

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So why would it be to hard to believe that their may be a race out there very far away who can only self reproduce or only copy their own dna it isn't just science fiction because you can find examples of that within our own world

#20369
LiarasShield

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Actually I have found another game that where their is no victory ending and all your actions don't change much it is the ending to Final Fantasy XIII-2 no matter what serah does in the other timelines once she returns back to her own time she dies the energy of chaos end up destroying most of the past and the future and Lightning defeats caius but then she is sealed in a crystal prison forever trapt in a world torn by chaos where most of time is destroyed

And when lightning does awaken from her crystal prison she is in a dying timeline or world all by herself with no one else and wasn't able to really change anything

#20370
LiarasShield

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Which I do feel very sorry for the fans of ff XIII ending that way

#20371
3DandBeyond

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LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

okay all sleepy time for me so have fun complaining.....By the way......Blue people using alien DNA to reproduce is space magic as well......That would be like a dog having a human baby.


You do know that asexual creatures or animals do exist in our world and isn't just only a part of science fiction?


It is impossible to use anything that may include actual science fact since someone has their fingers in their ears.  If that someone (rhymes with tubbles) thinks something is true even though without anything to back that up, the opposite becomes space magic.  This is the new trend for (rhymes with dubbles).  Don't confront actual logical possibilites, deny, deny, deny.  He or she or they think that doint this often enough makes what they say true.

Vulcans could mind meld.  Since there are those that believe we all share some unspoken connection as humans (twins do in some very real ways) then it's not hard to believe that other beings might be more in tune with that, so I can believe it.

Asexual reproduction does exist and it is not out of the realm of possibility that creatures can "read" other organisms and utilize DNA mapping in order to achieve diversity.  Actually in a more mechanical way people are already attempting this today.  Cheetahs for instance lack genetic diversity and it is weakening their numbers.  There are real ethical debates going on as to whether man should intercede and manipulate their genetics to artificially create diversity.  Theorists say that it is possible that at some point things will equalize and mutations well spontaneously pop up and add that diversity on a needs basis.

As far as ME goes, it's not impossible to believe that beings adapted in some odd way to overcome their own lack of genetic diversity.  Nature created a way out.  It's a common theme throughout the games that humans are the most diverse and much was made about it in talking with Mordin.  Asari are not diverse at all-color aside.  Mordin stated that visual diversity wasn't the main problem.  And all it takes to believe this is possible is to think that at some point mind reading, mind melding (to use the Star Trek term) and some advanced ability to not quite read another's DNA, but to take it and use it is possible.  I can imagine it to be possible and I don't have to stretch too far.  Nature has a will of its own and survival of a species is one of the strongest drives in nature.  It's why the Krogan began to adapt to the genophage and so on.


One word bubbles should look up (it's said in the game) is parthenogenesis.

The real problem here is that bubbles keeps shifting the topic.  When confronted with evidence that his assertions are faulty and when he finally has no leg to stand on to dispute what he asserts, he changes the subject.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 17 mai 2012 - 02:49 .


#20372
Comguard2

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Just in case anyone from Bioware is still following this thread:

I am still incredibly annoyed by what the ending to Mass Effect 3. If it was your intention to create the worst ending in the history of gaming, nice job.

Fix it. You know what went wrong, don't screw up you second chance - most companies don't even get such an opportunity.

#20373
LiarasShield

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Like I said Final Fantasy XIII-2 matches mass effect 3s terrible endings lol

#20374
Voodoo-j

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daveyeisley wrote...

A confession:

When I read the statement by Mr. Mike Gamble regarding how they would never make a game that had a "bespoke ending that everyone gets", I misunderstood the word "bespoke"

Now that I looked it up out of curiosity.... man..... I kind of wish the ending was a little more 'bespoken', heh.

Specified by the buyer and customized/made-to-order would have been something I wanted.

I guess his point was regarding it being the exact same for everyone, but to me, the larger meaning indicated that each buyer would have gotten something customized to their preference.

Meh.


Cool.. word of the day :P

(in response to his comment not yours) - (If they are listening)
issue is we don't want something tailored, we want what they have implied, we want what fits the 2.9 games.  We want what Bioware has been giving in other games.  We want the excellence they have been giving.

:(

#20375
Benchpress610

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Reposting the must voted poll in BSN. Just keeping track of the "vocal minority" as some people like to call us. Image IPB

I you haven't, go vote here

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Endings suck, we want a brighter one. 91%(66920 votes)


-Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard. 6%(4270 votes)


-Fine as it is. 2%(1594 votes)----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------