23455 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

yes but the catalyst is the one who controlls or created the reapers he has been having them commit mass genocide every 50 thousand years It is very hard to believe that he'd give you any real option of wining without either A destroying you and traping your forces or B keeping the reapers alive which in two of the endings happen by the way

Control doesn't work because no one has ever been able to control the reapers before Saren tried the illusive man tried but it never worked so again it leaves me to think it is a trap because no one can really control the reapers remember because they're beyond our understanding

Synthesis goes against the entire series as a whole because it destroys individuality or the only way for the galaxy to have peace is for everybody to be the same it goes against what mass effect stand for about bringing completely unique and different races for a purpose

And Javik himself said that they were not able to beat the reapers because they couldn't adapt or evolve because they ended up being all the same and that is why the reapers destroy and harvested the protheans turning them into the collectors we fought in me2

Destroy is the only option that makes somewhat sense but again the main villian wouldn't give you a solution without it benefiting him in the end and in the good destroy ending it looks like shepard is in the rubble probably most likely from harbingers blast and that either it was all a dream or a indoctrination attempt because the destruction of the citadel and then earths amospheric reentry wouldn't work because unlike Acheera we have Oxygen which can cause friction and burns thing up and our planet as a whole is generally warm so it wouldn't really work either

The whole point being is the catalyst is the main villian and he wouldn't really let shepard win without it causing more harm then good some come on be real with yourselves the catalyst is the creator of the reapers hes not your friend he  is the one that made these powerful machines that have been trying to kill us to think that he'd give us any real situation to win is absurd

It isn't about shepard living it is about him or her rejecting the catalyst false logic and then fighting to thee end making a noble sacrifice without destroying the relays and protecting everyone that he or she wanted to save it is suppose to be a heroic sacrifice not a mindless suicide where everybody is trapt in our damaged solar system

[LiarasShield]

that is what it boils down to

[BlueStorm83]

Maltidor, you're partially correct there.  Partially.

While we always have the option to compromise, we also have the options of taking a hard-line violent approach, a hard-line peaceful approach, to be a backstabby bastard, to hug the sad orphan children, to eat a kitten, to lose your life savings by sending it to that Turian Prince who keeps sending you emails...

I don't doubt that you may have had a very satisfying conclusion to the game.  But I maintain that I did not.  MY Shepard, lovingly called Shempard, kinda disappeared at the end there.  Someone else with his face and voice appeared, and sheepishly shrugged and accepted the word of Super-Space-Hitler-Hologram, and then accidentally boned the greater galactic community by dissolving himself as he tried to control the reapers.  

I picked Control because I refused to backstab the Geth, and the Synthesis option disgusted me.  There's something incalculably abhorrent about changing all life everywhere against its will just to save your own people.  In my opinion at least.  So I took the option that I HOPED would save everyone, but admited could kill everyone.

I could have accepted it, but then the relays started exploding.  I don't remember the Starboy, OR his counterpart the Captain of Outer Space, telling me that control would make the relays die.  I thought that I would  "Give up everything I have" and then could control the reapers.  And I'd make them kill each other, and thought I'm gone, everyone else could return to their lives.  That's not what I got.  And then the nonsense of the Normandy Escape Scene.  Escaping from what, escaping from ME WINNING THE GAME?!

I'VE GOT IT!  Joker saw the ending coming, and he's like, "Oh my God, it's too crappy!" and he grabbed all my crew and tried DESPERATELY to save them from going down in history as part of such a **** ending.  Then they crashed on that planet, and they thought they were safe.  But then Buzz Alrdin popped out of the ground and told Joker that if he wanted to make sense of what happened, he'd need to download an extra movie, and that he could also pay for more content.  Wah wah waaaaaaah.  

[LiarasShield]

Every supposed ending lover only comes up with the excuse  that were mad because shepard didn't live that is not the case I'm MAD BECAUSE SHEPARD DIDN'T GO OUT LIKE A HERO BUT BASICLLY COMMITED A MINDLESS SUICIDE WITH NO PAY OFF -_________-

Modifié par LiarasShield, 17 mai 2012 - 06:18 .

[Malditor]

If you don't destroy the relays, how can you be sure you stopped any future reaper attack? Just because you don't agree with the catalyst logic doesn't make it false automatically. I suppose you reject the whole idea that the reapers/catalyst were created because of a near cataclystic event where organics were nearly completely wiped out by an uprising of synthetic life? Seems strange considering it had already started with the Geth and Quarians. I chose not to look at the Reapers or Catalyst as an evil being, more as a product of eons of learning and watching the evolution of every species. That It learned that with this cycle something had changed outside of what it had ever experienced and therefore was forced by the will of Shepard to see that things MUST change because the cycle was no longer unchanged.

[LiarasShield]

Looked smart ass if you did legions side mission you'd realize that the geth only fought the quarians because they iniated the battle with them that is why they defended themselves and fought the quarians back but they didn't destroy them and allowed them to leave and they only continueslly fight the quarians and or shepard because the reapers rewrite the geth code and went into their network that is why their worshipped as the old machine but the created always destroying the creator doesn't work because once we break the geth from reaper control they wanna help the quarians rebuild the rannoch and if the catalyst created the reapers why have they not destroyed him or the plans for the crucible if all the created must destroy their creator the logic does not work

Modifié par LiarasShield, 17 mai 2012 - 06:23 .

[daveyeisley]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Reposting the must voted poll in BSN. Just keeping track of the "vocal minority" as some people like to call us.

I you haven't, go vote here

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Endings suck, we want a brighter one. 91%(66920 votes)


-Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard. 6%(4270 votes)


-Fine as it is. 2%(1594 votes)----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vocal minority. Yeah, and bubbles is a neurosurgeon

[LiarasShield]

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

yes but the catalyst is the one who controlls or created the reapers he has been having them commit mass genocide every 50 thousand years It is very hard to believe that he'd give you any real option of wining without either A destroying you and traping your forces or B keeping the reapers alive which in two of the endings happen by the way

Control doesn't work because no one has ever been able to control the reapers before Saren tried the illusive man tried but it never worked so again it leaves me to think it is a trap because no one can really control the reapers remember because they're beyond our understanding

Synthesis goes against the entire series as a whole because it destroys individuality or the only way for the galaxy to have peace is for everybody to be the same it goes against what mass effect stand for about bringing completely unique and different races for a purpose

And Javik himself said that they were not able to beat the reapers because they couldn't adapt or evolve because they ended up being all the same and that is why the reapers destroy and harvested the protheans turning them into the collectors we fought in me2

Destroy is the only option that makes somewhat sense but again the main villian wouldn't give you a solution without it benefiting him in the end and in the good destroy ending it looks like shepard is in the rubble probably most likely from harbingers blast and that either it was all a dream or a indoctrination attempt because the destruction of the citadel and then earths amospheric reentry wouldn't work because unlike Acheera we have Oxygen which can cause friction and burns thing up and our planet as a whole is generally warm so it wouldn't really work either

The whole point being is the catalyst is the main villian and he wouldn't really let shepard win without it causing more harm then good some come on be real with yourselves the catalyst is the creator of the reapers hes not your friend he  is the one that made these powerful machines that have been trying to kill us to think that he'd give us any real situation to win is absurd

It isn't about shepard living it is about him or her rejecting the catalyst false logic and then fighting to thee end making a noble sacrifice without destroying the relays and protecting everyone that he or she wanted to save it is suppose to be a heroic sacrifice not a mindless suicide where everybody is trapt in our damaged solar system

Again flawed logic that shepard and the reapers have disapproved against the creator that made them

[BlueStorm83]

"If you don't destroy the relays, how can you be sure you stopped any future reaper attack?" Maltidor writes.

My reply: "Cause they're DEAD. We blew the bastards to bits. What's blow'd up can't attack me."

"I chose not to look at the Reapers or Catalyst as an evil being, more as a product of eons of learning and watching the evolution of every species." But it's NOT learning and watching the evolution of every species. It's INVADING and ENDING the evolution of every species.

The Starboy said that he's doing this all for order, because there's too much chaos. He's Space OCD. And the WAY that he's doing this is absolutely nonsensical. Let me refer you to the "Yo dawg, I heard you don't wanna be killed by Synthetics, so I made some Synthetics to kill you evert 50k years so you don't get killed by Synthetics" meme. If he wanted to stop people from making Synthetics without EXTERMINATING them, he could have showed up right at the beginning of the AI age, landed on a planet, said "Hey guys, I'm super advanced and from SPACE. Here's a video recording of people just like you, who made Synthetic Life, and then their Synthetic Life killed them off. This seems to happen all the time: I have more tapes just like that one. To keep you all alive, I'm gonna have to insist that you not make any kind of AI. Virtual Intelligence is just fine. You can keep on doing your own thing. And if someone DOES make some AIs that try to kill you, I'll show up with my Giganto-Synthetics that I control and kill the bad synthetic AIs that are trying to kill you, since I apparently want to save you all."

[LiarasShield]

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

yes but the catalyst is the one who controlls or created the reapers he has been having them commit mass genocide every 50 thousand years It is very hard to believe that he'd give you any real option of wining without either A destroying you and traping your forces or B keeping the reapers alive which in two of the endings happen by the way

Control doesn't work because no one has ever been able to control the reapers before Saren tried the illusive man tried but it never worked so again it leaves me to think it is a trap because no one can really control the reapers remember because they're beyond our understanding

Synthesis goes against the entire series as a whole because it destroys individuality or the only way for the galaxy to have peace is for everybody to be the same it goes against what mass effect stand for about bringing completely unique and different races for a purpose

And Javik himself said that they were not able to beat the reapers because they couldn't adapt or evolve because they ended up being all the same and that is why the reapers destroy and harvested the protheans turning them into the collectors we fought in me2

Destroy is the only option that makes somewhat sense but again the main villian wouldn't give you a solution without it benefiting him in the end and in the good destroy ending it looks like shepard is in the rubble probably most likely from harbingers blast and that either it was all a dream or a indoctrination attempt because the destruction of the citadel and then earths amospheric reentry wouldn't work because unlike Acheera we have Oxygen which can cause friction and burns thing up and our planet as a whole is generally warm so it wouldn't really work either

The whole point being is the catalyst is the main villian and he wouldn't really let shepard win without it causing more harm then good some come on be real with yourselves the catalyst is the creator of the reapers hes not your friend he  is the one that made these powerful machines that have been trying to kill us to think that he'd give us any real situation to win is absurd

It isn't about shepard living it is about him or her rejecting the catalyst false logic and then fighting to thee end making a noble sacrifice without destroying the relays and protecting everyone that he or she wanted to save it is suppose to be a heroic sacrifice not a mindless suicide where everybody is trapt in our damaged solar system

Just Another random fan who loves the ending and only think we hate it because shepard dies that is quite sad it seems like a lot of fans don't know our real issues though we've mentioned them a million times

[Malditor]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Maltidor, you're partially correct there.  Partially.

While we always have the option to compromise, we also have the options of taking a hard-line violent approach, a hard-line peaceful approach, to be a backstabby bastard, to hug the sad orphan children, to eat a kitten, to lose your life savings by sending it to that Turian Prince who keeps sending you emails...

I don't doubt that you may have had a very satisfying conclusion to the game.  But I maintain that I did not.  MY Shepard, lovingly called Shempard, kinda disappeared at the end there.  Someone else with his face and voice appeared, and sheepishly shrugged and accepted the word of Super-Space-Hitler-Hologram, and then accidentally boned the greater galactic community by dissolving himself as he tried to control the reapers.  

I picked Control because I refused to backstab the Geth, and the Synthesis option disgusted me.  There's something incalculably abhorrent about changing all life everywhere against its will just to save your own people.  In my opinion at least.  So I took the option that I HOPED would save everyone, but admited could kill everyone.

I could have accepted it, but then the relays started exploding.  I don't remember the Starboy, OR his counterpart the Captain of Outer Space, telling me that control would make the relays die.  I thought that I would  "Give up everything I have" and then could control the reapers.  And I'd make them kill each other, and thought I'm gone, everyone else could return to their lives.  That's not what I got.  And then the nonsense of the Normandy Escape Scene.  Escaping from what, escaping from ME WINNING THE GAME?!

I'VE GOT IT!  Joker saw the ending coming, and he's like, "Oh my God, it's too crappy!" and he grabbed all my crew and tried DESPERATELY to save them from going down in history as part of such a **** ending.  Then they crashed on that planet, and they thought they were safe.  But then Buzz Alrdin popped out of the ground and told Joker that if he wanted to make sense of what happened, he'd need to download an extra movie, and that he could also pay for more content.  Wah wah waaaaaaah.  

My mind automatically made the connection that upon realizing he was unable to control the reapers, Shepard forced the destruction as his last conscious act.

[daveyeisley]

Thanatos144 wrote...
I liked it. It fit the story. It allowed one human to defeat a race os sentiant machines that are far mor powerful than the human...it showed sacrifice and honor......It showed sheoard wasnt a selfish person who only thought of herself.

Unless you play a renegade who saved the geth on rannoch and made friends with EDI, and choose the destroy ending.... or a bunch of other possible ways to play that aren't honorable, and are pretty selfish.

Duh.... I mean, just.... duh.... ugh.... I'm losing too much grey matter.... shoulda known better than to respond... damnit.

[LiarasShield]

Malditor the catalyst flawed logic and shepards willingness to believe the main villian would offer him or her any way of truely defeating the reapers that he created is nonsense but the created will always destroy their creator logic does not work either ande the main villian Isn''t gonna be like hey man or hey girl you can just wipe out all my forces I mean once again seriously

[Malditor]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

"If you don't destroy the relays, how can you be sure you stopped any future reaper attack?" Maltidor writes.

My reply: "Cause they're DEAD. We blew the bastards to bits. What's blow'd up can't attack me."

"I chose not to look at the Reapers or Catalyst as an evil being, more as a product of eons of learning and watching the evolution of every species." But it's NOT learning and watching the evolution of every species. It's INVADING and ENDING the evolution of every species.

The Starboy said that he's doing this all for order, because there's too much chaos. He's Space OCD. And the WAY that he's doing this is absolutely nonsensical. Let me refer you to the "Yo dawg, I heard you don't wanna be killed by Synthetics, so I made some Synthetics to kill you evert 50k years so you don't get killed by Synthetics" meme. If he wanted to stop people from making Synthetics without EXTERMINATING them, he could have showed up right at the beginning of the AI age, landed on a planet, said "Hey guys, I'm super advanced and from SPACE. Here's a video recording of people just like you, who made Synthetic Life, and then their Synthetic Life killed them off. This seems to happen all the time: I have more tapes just like that one. To keep you all alive, I'm gonna have to insist that you not make any kind of AI. Virtual Intelligence is just fine. You can keep on doing your own thing. And if someone DOES make some AIs that try to kill you, I'll show up with my Giganto-Synthetics that I control and kill the bad synthetic AIs that are trying to kill you, since I apparently want to save you all."

Yeah, because knowing our history does a great job of making us not repeat it? It just makes us think we know a better way or it would never happen to us because we are smarter than that. Etc. And it doesn't destroy all life, just that sufficiently advanced enough that it's on the brink of said destructive tendancy. As for the "their dead" logic, who says that what we are facing is the ENTIRE force of Reapers? Perhaps there are more waves in waiting to use the technology to jump back into the fight just as we think we've won and are off our guard?

Also, LiarasShield, I'm not saying everyone that is unhappy want's the option of Shepard living, but that is a good number of those unhappy with the ending and demanding it be fixed. So, stop trying to lump me in with the people who only think that.

Modifié par Malditor, 17 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[LiarasShield]

daveyeisley wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
I liked it. It fit the story. It allowed one human to defeat a race os sentiant machines that are far mor powerful than the human...it showed sacrifice and honor......It showed sheoard wasnt a selfish person who only thought of herself.

Unless you play a renegade who saved the geth on rannoch and made friends with EDI, and choose the destroy ending.... or a bunch of other possible ways to play that aren't honorable, and are pretty selfish.

Duh.... I mean, just.... duh.... ugh.... I'm losing too much grey matter.... shoulda known better than to respond... damnit.

Yes facepalm of the century

[LiarasShield]

well if you're not like them then I take my insertion back but yes the reasons I like many others 3dand and several others who have talked here it isn't because shepard died that is the issue it is the issue the shepard became a mindless zombie accepting that all the created will destroy their creators when shepard and the reapers the catalyst made has proven that assumption wrong and the main villian of the story is not gonan offer you a real solution without it casuing you more harm or destroying you and allowing the reapers to live or traping your forces so that they would slowly die

[LiarasShield]

Because again The catalyst

" The reapers I control them they're my solution" Is not our friend but the foe we came here to defeat not submit to or give into

[Benchpress610]

Malditor wrote...

Sythesis doesn't make everyone the same. Also, it was already slowly heading that way, as indicated by all the implants that the different characters had alread. Also, it doesn't go against the whole of the series because there are constantly options at compromise. This is the epitome of compromise, and therefore is very much in line with the way the story has been going. The problem lies in the fact that there aren't variations of the 3 choices and/or the option for shepard to live. At least that's what I've gathered from all the arguments about the ending. Do I think the ending could have gone differently, perhaps more options and definitely more variation in final scenes? Sure, but like I said, not enough for it to halt all further progress in the new content to appease the ones who aren't happy with it.

So… synthesis right? How would that work? Does this mean the Reapers are now half organic? Do they need to eat to survive? How and with what do you feed a 2 km long beast? Obviously they will need something nutritious …like half organic/half synthetic …Oh s***t…the cycle begins on a new dimension: The reapers are hungry now.
 
Hey it’s my interpretation on the ending. Please respect my artistic vision….

[Malditor]

LiarasShield wrote...

well if you're not like them then I take my insertion back but yes the reasons I like many others 3dand and several others who have talked here it isn't because shepard died that is the issue it is the issue the shepard became a mindless zombie accepting that all the created will destroy their creators when shepard and the reapers the catalyst made has proven that assumption wrong and the main villian of the story is not gonan offer you a real solution without it casuing you more harm or destroying you and allowing the reapers to live or traping your forces so that they would slowly die

Again, you are looking at it as a villian instead of a being that is only a product of what it has learned through the Eons of cycles that HAVE followed the same destructive path. Being that this cycle has had a significant change, and the reason for that change is there, the being realizes that something needs to be done. Could it be possible all the motives behind the choices are onerous? Sure, but it's just as likely that their is no ulterior motive for the choices given... It's a subjective idea, just because you are sure that the Catalyst is evil doesn't mean we all did at the end. Forcing what you think of the being/whatever as the only way to think of it isn't right. I'm not saying how you feel is wrong, just that it's not right to believe it's the only way to feel or believe.

[LiarasShield]

And what is more hilarious then anything else is that the crucible which is suppose to save us is what ultimately is our undoing or our forces undoing and the confrontation with the reapers creator but instead of battling the child or rejecting the catalyst logic and battling to the end shepard just drifts away and our weapon of hope ends up destroying all the relays and potentially even destroying all of earth if bad ems leaving the forces around us to slowly die in space

yet alone loyal crew abandoning us and saying **** you were out yeah I got so much bad taste from that right now even several containgers of listerine mouthwash wouldn't be able to cure it

[LiarasShield]

he is the creator of the reapers who have been destroying and harvesting and mutating organic like for thousands or millions of years how in hells glorious name can you see this as not being evil?

[Malditor]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Sythesis doesn't make everyone the same. Also, it was already slowly heading that way, as indicated by all the implants that the different characters had alread. Also, it doesn't go against the whole of the series because there are constantly options at compromise. This is the epitome of compromise, and therefore is very much in line with the way the story has been going. The problem lies in the fact that there aren't variations of the 3 choices and/or the option for shepard to live. At least that's what I've gathered from all the arguments about the ending. Do I think the ending could have gone differently, perhaps more options and definitely more variation in final scenes? Sure, but like I said, not enough for it to halt all further progress in the new content to appease the ones who aren't happy with it.

So… synthesis right? How would that work? Does this mean the Reapers are now half organic? Do they need to eat to survive? How and with what do you feed a 2 km long beast? Obviously they will need something nutritious …like half organic/half synthetic …Oh s***t…the cycle begins on a new dimension: The reapers are hungry now.
 
Hey it’s my interpretation on the ending. Please respect my artistic vision….

Actually, I like that idea, I mean think about it... that would make for an awesome spin off game don't you think?

[LiarasShield]

Their are otherways the catalyst supposedly could've protected us then destroying us that isn't the only decent option here

[LiarasShield]

but yes the creator of the reapers is the villian and becomes the main antagonist just like how soverign and harbinger became the main antagonists for me1 and me2

[Malditor]

LiarasShield wrote...

he is the creator of the reapers who have been destroying and harvesting and mutating organic like for thousands or millions of years how in hells glorious name can you see this as not being evil?

Not to get into a religious argument, but the same could be said of any "god" that allows multitudes to be murdered and yet saves others. The being isn't necessarily doing anything out of evil intent, but only acting on what it believes logical or the best path to preserve future life. When faced with a person that defies the logic it has followed all along it is forced to change it's path, and putting the choice to the only one who's been able to withstand all the obsticles placed before him/her.

Modifié par Malditor, 17 mai 2012 - 06:49 .