23455 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueStorm83]

They explained why Anderson isn't the councilor if you put him there in the first place. It's in the codex; he did indeed leave the job to Udina, who had been his assistant, because he didn't think that the Alliance was doing enough to prepare for the Reaper invasion that they'd been warned about.

[daveyeisley]

That would be nice, sure.

Synthesis has lots of other issues, though. My paragon did choose it initially, but only because it was after I sat there for like 10 minutes or so and got a critical mission failure as I pondered the implications. I was so pissed. Punished for trying to figure it out? Why? Because the battle was still going on? Why couldn't Shepard threaten or negotiate a cease-fire? He had control of the situation.

In hindsight, my Shepard couldn't decide to impose synthesis on every sentient being without their permission. If they would have a choice in the matter, maybe.... but some might rather die than be made part machine. I ended up being forced into control.... with the notion of using it to destroy the reapers, maybe after using harbinger as a mouthpiece to apologize to Tali and tell her I love her. That poor darling girl.... dammit.

Shepard: Assuming Direct Control, beotch!

Heh.

In reality, I just wanted to destroy them.... but no way could I wipe out the Geth, and especially not EDI, she was just too awesome. I waffled for a fraction of a second about the Geth simply because Legion was already dead.... but still, nope.

EDI:  "And just like that, the magic is gone."
Shepard: "Did you just say what i think you said?"
EDI: "No."

Another thing that bothers me about the destroy option though, is that it is supposed to kill the Reapers. A case can be made that they aren't truly synthetic. They are "sapient organic constructs". They are a processed/repurposed form of organic life, but still organic. Why would wiping out "all synthetic life" kill the Reapers at all?

And even so, they are sufficiently different from other synthetics that the notion the Crucible is unable to differentiate bothers me. I mean, in Control, nothing is said about taking control of all synthetic life. You just control the reapers.

The ending cinematics make it pretty clear that the energy released in each variation is pretty similar, so.... why can't the crucible control or kill just the Reapers?

Oh... right.... so that Paragons would have something to feel bittersweet about.

As if losing Anderson, Mordin, Thane, Legion, Lt. Victus, the whole Alliance War Council, the little boy on Earth, the entire staff at the Mars Archives, Joker's Dad and sister Hillary, Private Talavi's brother, Ambassador Osoba's son Bilal, Cortez's husband Robert, Kaiden's Dad, the girl waiting for her folks in the holding area's parent's (on the *really* slow shuttle), Samara's daughter Rila, Diana Aller's family on Bekenstein, Lt. Kurin and her entire company, the pilots of Talon One and Talon 5, the Krogan mechanic from ME2 (the combustion manifold guy), most of Aralakh Company or the entire Rachni species, Dorn Hazt, the entire crew of the Qwib-Qwib (Admiral Zal'Koris' ship) or Admiral Koris and some of his crew, Liara's entire homeworld, every single refugee at Sanctuary, and like half the population of the whole fricking galaxy isn't bitter enough.

Also, remember this from ME2:

Announcement: Facility Lockdown
Dr. Talarassan:

Dr. Rochelle has ordered a complete lockdown. You are hereby ordered to seal the production line access corridor from the rest of the facility.

I realize that doing this will seal me and any workers who remain inside with the malfunctioning mechs. This does not affect your orders.

It has been an honor to work with you.

Chief Saunders, Security

If Shepard is forced to sacrifice himself, it could have at least been portrayed as heroic in the sense of being reflected in the reactions of his team to a message like this, as he convinces Hackett to order the entire sword fleet to fire on the now-exposed base of the Citadel (where the crucible is docked, and Shepard and the glow boy are standing).

[Archonsg]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

They explained why Anderson isn't the councilor if you put him there in the first place. It's in the codex; he did indeed leave the job to Udina, who had been his assistant, because he didn't think that the Alliance was doing enough to prepare for the Reaper invasion that they'd been warned about.

Heh.
I know that. What I meant was if you didn't, or wasn't aware of the byplay, you will be wondering what the heck happened as there wasn't any indication in game by any of the primaries to indicate this change. The writers didn't make any attempt to clue in the player to the change.
 

[akenn312]

I believe in your right to like the game but saying people should have not said anything at all because they don't deserve anything, or getting raw with them for not liking the ending because you can't get new DLC content is fanboyish behavior. I think that the story's ending is bad, and also I "think" Bioware cut too many corners on the game that has been already argued to death here. Basically I think this game and story can be considered great for those who have a blind fanboy devotion to the Mass Effect franchise or EA & Bioware, but it is not a game that had a good ending and left a lot of players left out on an island with the way the game is made.

So I would like to leave this article here called "Fanboys Ruin Everything" and here is a partt from the article

"So here's my solution: cut it out. Like, for real. I'm not saying that you have to like what everyone else likes, or that your purchasing habits need to change. All that really needs to change is the way you view your favorite players in the industry. They aren't infallible. Sometimes their games suck. Occasionally their competitors might even make a better game. The people that disagree with you might not have been dropped as children or exposed to high doses of radiation at a young age. And, yes, your favorite developers, publishers, and console-makers will attempt to use your loyalty to make a quick buck. Be just as passionate but with a generous helping of sense."

Link to the article.
http://www.cheatcc.c...78#.T7Vpxb91P0g



But also I do have to agree, we ending haters have been beating the hell out of a dead horese. The posting over by all of us now that they are doing the EC is getting a little much, I do think we should cool it for a while.

Modifié par akenn312, 17 mai 2012 - 09:42 .

[daveyeisley]

Malditor wrote...

Archonsg, I don't think it's wrong to want something to end how you think it should, I just think it's wrong to demand it.

So...

If people were demanding their money back, instead of telling Bioware that they want the game to deliver what Casey, and Mac, and Mike said it would, would you have a problem with that, too?

[3DandBeyond]

Basically in hindsight you can look back and think there are many things wrong with ME3. I always had issues all along the way with trying to get people to abandon their homeworlds in order to go to Earth. And, no matter what you do you are continually asking people to do that. You need the Turians so you need the Krogans on Palaven, which leaves Tuchanka vulnerable. I don't know, but it seems like it would make more sense to have all the fleets mobilize somewhere in between or something or nearer to the Citadel or a mass relay.

As far as endings go, I do think we all do want clarity, but we also want context.

The endings and choices just become meaningless because we can't look at them as we see them. We have the ability that Shepard doesn't have-we see the outcomes. So, when Shepard is presented with them, s/he also has to consider the circular logic of the star kid, the idea that the kid has been on the Citadel all along and could have stopped the reapers at any time, and the fact that the kid is basically saying things that other evil beings have said. When seeing all that Shepard knows at the point where s/he meets the kid, the idea of making any choice becomes totally ridiculous.

[daveyeisley]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Basically in hindsight you can look back and think there are many things wrong with ME3. I always had issues all along the way with trying to get people to abandon their homeworlds in order to go to Earth. And, no matter what you do you are continually asking people to do that. You need the Turians so you need the Krogans on Palaven, which leaves Tuchanka vulnerable. I don't know, but it seems like it would make more sense to have all the fleets mobilize somewhere in between or something or nearer to the Citadel or a mass relay.

As far as endings go, I do think we all do want clarity, but we also want context.

The endings and choices just become meaningless because we can't look at them as we see them. We have the ability that Shepard doesn't have-we see the outcomes. So, when Shepard is presented with them, s/he also has to consider the circular logic of the star kid, the idea that the kid has been on the Citadel all along and could have stopped the reapers at any time, and the fact that the kid is basically saying things that other evil beings have said. When seeing all that Shepard knows at the point where s/he meets the kid, the idea of making any choice becomes totally ridiculous.

True. Shepard can barely understand the implications and outcomes. Its not really a choice, its more of a guess. And the data he does have to use for analysis, all 14 lines of it, is decidedly suspect. There just isn't any way for any version of Shepard (even the one who killed the geth and doesnt like EDI, damn Javik drones) to blindly accept it all at face value and be pressured into making a choice with such huge consequences with so little time to consider it.

[No_MSG]

I'm curious to know what would happen if I killed the Deus Ex Machina and freed the Reapers. Because that's my choice. Well, it would be my choice, but I don't get that choice, because... I don't know?

[Malditor]

akenn312 wrote...

I believe in your right to like the game but saying people should have not said anything at all because they don't deserve anything, or getting raw with them for not liking the ending because you can't get new DLC content is fanboyish behavior. I think that the story's ending is bad, and also I "think" Bioware cut too many corners on the game that has been already argued to death here. Basically I think this game and story can be considered great for those who have a blind fanboy devotion to the Mass Effect franchise or EA & Bioware, but it is not a game that had a good ending and left a lot of players left out on an island with the way the game is made.

So I would like to leave this article here called "Fanboys Ruin Everything" and here is a partt from the article

"So here's my solution: cut it out. Like, for real. I'm not saying that you have to like what everyone else likes, or that your purchasing habits need to change. All that really needs to change is the way you view your favorite players in the industry. They aren't infallible. Sometimes their games suck. Occasionally their competitors might even make a better game. The people that disagree with you might not have been dropped as children or exposed to high doses of radiation at a young age. And, yes, your favorite developers, publishers, and console-makers will attempt to use your loyalty to make a quick buck. Be just as passionate but with a generous helping of sense."

Link to the article.
http://www.cheatcc.c...78#.T7Vpxb91P0g



But also I do have to agree, we ending haters have been beating the hell out of a dead horese. The posting over by all of us now that they are doing the EC is getting a little much, I do think we should cool it for a while.

Interesting, I never once said people didn't have the right to voice their opinion or that they don't deserve anything. Actually, I said they should be working on the EC and regular DLC in tandum so everyone gets what they want. To demand one to the exclusion of the other is wrong. To insist that I'm a fanboy because I enjoyed the game and want to be able to play more content is strange. Why can't it just mean that I have a different viewpoint than you? Even almost all those who want the ending changed have said they liked the rest of the game, but because I like the game and had no problem with the ending I'm a fanboy. Does that mean anyone who liked the game is a fanboy? I'm looking forward to the EC, any new content is nice after I buy a game, though being able to experience new things in the game is more desireable to me than revisiting something old. That's just my preference, again, I don't demand everyone feel the same though.

Modifié par Malditor, 17 mai 2012 - 10:57 .

[akenn312]

Malditor wrote...

Interesting, I never once said people didn't have the right to voice their opinion or that they don't deserve anything. Actually, I said they should be working on the EC and regular DLC in tandum so everyone gets what they want. To demand one to the exclusion of the other is wrong. To insist that I'm a fanboy because I enjoyed the game and want to be able to play more content is strange. Why can't it just mean that I have a different viewpoint than you? Even almost all those who want the ending changed have said they liked the rest of the game, but because I like the game and had no problem with the ending I'm a fanboy. Does that mean anyone who liked the game is a fanboy? I'm looking forward to the EC, any new content is nice after I buy a game, though being able to experience new things in the game is more desireable to me than revisiting something old. That's just my preference, again, I don't demand everyone feel the same though.

Sorry but has Bioware said anything about having to push back any DLC to work on the EC? No, they have been extremely vague about almost everything. But coming on here and making posts that claim people dissatisfied with the ending are ruining it for other fans just exhibits fanboy behavior. I don't care about your view point is different, the issue I have with posts like that is you put the blame on the fans rather than Bioware for putting out a shoddy ending that they have to rework. 

Only a fanboy would think the reason they are not getting any new DLC is because of those darn Retake bad fans. Only a fanboy would make insulting posts about other fans saying they are entitled if they didn't like the ending that Bioware was so gracious to give us. 

As I said before I can see how a person can like this ending, I think the ones that do have more blind devotion to the series or company, but that is my opinion and I respect their right to have that devotion. They should respect my right to voice my frustration though when Bioware makes a bad game or game ending too though. There is nothing wrong with allowing people to comfortably vent on this thread. If you understand their side then leave them alone and let them discuss amongst themselves or whatever. But a fanboy would be intimidated by that because they think the "haters" are going to cause something bad to happen to Mass Effect or get content taken away.

Look I also agree with you the fact that we are still trying to bang the "We hate the ending!" drums is  proving them right about us and getting a little old, but neither one is a good thing to be. Like I said before it's probably getting time for both sides to take a break now. 

Modifié par akenn312, 18 mai 2012 - 12:02 .

[BlueStorm83]

--Don't mistake hating - HATING - the ending with hating the game. I loved the game. I was totally psyched when I was charging the conduit. When I got hit by the beam, I was like, "Holy ****, this is getting intense!" When I limped my way past the other soldiers with singular determination, when I took out poor misunderstood Marauder Shields, that was a pretty incredible scene. When I got into the Citadel and it was a charnel house, I was horrified and more determined than ever. Even though the bodies were oddly blank and manequin-like. I was a little suspicious, but was willing to accept that maybe they were, like, halfhusks.

--Then I got to Anderson, and he turned around kinda wonky. The Illusive Man showed up, and I was like, "Wait a second, what's he doing here? Well, maybe he was ON the citadel when he alerted the reapers to our plan, just roll with it." He started making me do things, I was like, "But wait, I thought he didn't put a control chip in. Was there some secret control chip that he didn't even tell Miranda about, to try and be super DUPER sneaky and manipulative? Just roll with it!" And Anderson was like, "Shempard, I can't!" Because he apparently couldn't even finish his sentences. And I got a little, "He can control Anderson too? That doesn't make sense, really. Maybe he'll explain it in the conversation, that he has the power to, like, super-indoctrinate. Maybe Illusive Man is now a mini-reaper, having augmented himself with all that reaper tech he was taking. JUST ROLL WITH IT, ME!" He made me shoot Anderson. Anderson didn't really react. Odd. Still rolling, maybe that's his being controlled. He's so controlled that he can't even FLINCH. Shempard's like, "Dammit, Illusive man, look at yourself in the mirror! You're TOTALLY indoctrinated, dude!" Mr. Man replies, "No way! The horrible evil reaper voices that control my brain explicitly told me that I'm not- aw hell..." Then he takes a Saren. I was a little pleased with this. I thought, "Aw yeah, last time this happened I got a boss fight." But Shempard was still all limpy. And then I smacked a computer and sat to hang with my bro, Andy "The Andersonly" Anderson.

--Pretty cool dialogue scene here. I liked that Anderson was understanding, and just glad that we'd finally won. Shepard turned on the Crucible, and it would make all the problems go away. I was still rolling with it, despite the lack of explanations, the death of a friend, and even the somewhat underwhelming death of an enemy that I actually had some respect for (his real desire to save everyone, at least, underneath the twisted indoctrination.) Hackett's like, "Shepard, I can't pronounce Shempard correctly! Also, you need to do something else. Shemp stumbles forward, can't make it to the console. Then an unexplained Elevator takes him up.

--That jarred me. I was like, "Who turned that on? Is the Council still alive? Maybe Bailey? Even CONRAD?! OMG, did they stage this all for a surprise party for my birthday?!" Nah. It was Starboy, determined to reunite for one final movie sequel to Starboy and the Captain of Outer Space.

--Not gonna once again point out how every single thing from this point onward had no real logical bearing on the story, the personality of the character I'd played, the allies I'd recruited, the fleet fighting just outside, the established use of technologies and game-world physics.

--Then I was sad.

--I'm so very sad about this because I loved every single second before that damn unexplained elevator. The reason this bothers me so much is because it's like the final scene in Romeo and Juliet, where Juliet commits suicide, so Romeo just shrugs and bangs Mercutio. That doesn't happen, BTW. Because it would not follow the story's established purpose. I just want Mass Effect fixed, so people can enjoy 100% of it, not just 99.9%. If it was the first .1% that was utterly garbage and nonsense, that could be excused because it went out on a high note. If you live as a saint for 99 years, then die coked out in bed with seven transgendered hookers, how do you think you'll be remembered? Nothing against the trannies, just saying that would stand out in peoples' minds. Not a, like, whatever you call dudes who hate trannies.

[3DandBeyond]

I'm going to point out what was said before the game's release. No 2 endings would be alike. There would be such a variety in the endings based upon all the choices players made throughout 3 games. There'd be no A, B, or C endings. The ending wouldn't be a bespoke ending, which in software terms means involving one specific task unlike where it's used elsewhere to mean customized. Multi-player would not be needed for the single player campaign.

But these things aren't true. And the ending not only ruins one game, it ruins 3 and it ruins the good feelings you might have towards other ME products people bought. You might have been able to return ME3, but you can't return all that.

And no we aren't in a position to demand anything, but we can demand things, anyway. Most of the people that are angry have been there from day one, bought different versions of the games and even bought systems in order to play the games. No one forced them to, but implicit in the first 2 games, even if no one ever promised all that they did, was the unspoken promise that an ending, any ending would live up to all that came before. And that people would not suffer such a horrible disappointment from a series that by and large did not disappoint before.

And I know some people say it's time to back off and just quit complaining, but I say you quit when you are satisfied that the problems have been addressed or never will be.  I complain because I loved the ME series and because I sincerely hope there will be more.  Bioware said this would end Shepard's story, but never said it would be the end of ME.  Only a decently rectified ending to ME3 will make me want to continue on with ME anything.  I hope there will be more, but only if this is fixed first.  If it is fixed, I'd buy more.  I might not buy things quickly and would wait and see, but I'd be way more encouraged to buy.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 18 mai 2012 - 12:14 .

[Malditor]

akenn312 wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Interesting, I never once said people didn't have the right to voice their opinion or that they don't deserve anything. Actually, I said they should be working on the EC and regular DLC in tandum so everyone gets what they want. To demand one to the exclusion of the other is wrong. To insist that I'm a fanboy because I enjoyed the game and want to be able to play more content is strange. Why can't it just mean that I have a different viewpoint than you? Even almost all those who want the ending changed have said they liked the rest of the game, but because I like the game and had no problem with the ending I'm a fanboy. Does that mean anyone who liked the game is a fanboy? I'm looking forward to the EC, any new content is nice after I buy a game, though being able to experience new things in the game is more desireable to me than revisiting something old. That's just my preference, again, I don't demand everyone feel the same though.

Sorry but has Bioware said anything about having to push back any DLC to work on the EC? No, they have been extremely vague about almost everything. But coming on here and making posts that claim people dissatisfied with the ending are ruining it for other fans just exhibits fanboy behavior. I don't care about your view point is different, the issue I have with posts like that is you put the blame on the fans rather than Bioware for putting out a shoddy ending that they have to rework. 

Only a fanboy would think the reason they are not getting any new DLC is because of those darn Retake bad fans. Only a fanboy would make insulting posts about other fans saying they are entitled if they didn't like the ending that Bioware was so gracious to give us. 

As I said before I can see how a person can like this ending, I think the ones that do have more blind devotion to the series or company, but that is my opinion and I respect their right to have that devotion. They should respect my right to voice my frustration though when Bioware makes a bad game or game ending too though. There is nothing wrong with allowing people to comfortably vent on this thread. If you understand their side then leave them alone and let them discuss amongst themselves or whatever. But a fanboy would be intimidated by that because they think the "haters" are going to cause something bad to happen to Mass Effect or get content taken away.

Look I also agree with you the fact that we are still trying to bang the "We hate the ending!" drums is  proving them right about us and getting a little old, but neither one is a good thing to be. Like I said before it's probably getting time for both sides to take a break now. 

I had read somewhere recently that they pushed back other dlc content until the EC is released, perhaps that was false information. If so then of course my point about that is moot. My issue with what you said is the use of a derogatory term towards me, "fanboy", or anyone who actually enjoyed the game. But I'm not going to argue the point with you, as you said, it's your opinion.

[3DandBeyond]

Well, we need to stop this right now. In truth we are all fanboys or whatever you want to call it. We've all been fanboys or we wouldn't be here (I say it even though I'm an older lady). We are all here because we love ME or have loved it. Many of us just want the chance to love it again. We are disappointed to put it mildly, in a game with fantastic stories, acting, music, struggles, foes, heroes, characters, and so on-disappointed that all of that seems to have been forgotten and left out of the ending of ME3.

Others are just not thrilled or think the ending is ok. Others just don't care since it had pretty colors and marines waving guns and someone died.

But I daresay we all have loved these games.

[Malditor]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Well, we need to stop this right now. In truth we are all fanboys or whatever you want to call it. We've all been fanboys or we wouldn't be here (I say it even though I'm an older lady). We are all here because we love ME or have loved it. Many of us just want the chance to love it again. We are disappointed to put it mildly, in a game with fantastic stories, acting, music, struggles, foes, heroes, characters, and so on-disappointed that all of that seems to have been forgotten and left out of the ending of ME3.

Others are just not thrilled or think the ending is ok. Others just don't care since it had pretty colors and marines waving guns and someone died.

But I daresay we all have loved these games.

Nicely put.

[BlueStorm83]

I was pretty sick two years ago. I had two teeth shatter and get infected. Didn't have money to get them taken care of. An infection went to my jawbone and I got pretty screwed up. The pain was INCREDIBLE. This'll sound like bull****, but thinking over my reasons to live, all I could really think to myself was "Dammit, I don't want to miss Mass Effect 3." FORTUNATELY one of my bosses had a heart attack and I got to cover his shift and mine for over a month, giving me enough money to have those teeth taken care of, antibiotics, drills into the bone to access the infection, then some nice reconstruction.

Funny thing is, I've beaten Mass Effect 3 now (Still play the multiplayer, looking forward to the Rebellion DLC that's coming out tomorrow, supposedly!) and I still have some small lingering pain in the jaw every so often. I'm not saying I wish I'd died. Far from it, I loved the game right up until that one elevator. But had I died right there at that point, and God said to me, "Dude, trust me, it's for the best that it happened right there," I'd have been cool with that.

[daveyeisley]

Don't get me wrong... they can fix a bunch of stuff with the extended cut. They could possibly eliminate 90% or more of the confusing bits, and do so in such a way as to vastly improve how things fit....

My concern, which I think is shared by many, is that the definition of "no new endings" seems to indicate the existing ending will not be changed, just added to.... and this most likely means the final choice will not be altered, or at least no additional choice will be given... and nothing will be removed from the choices as is (like the Geth genocide and EDI murder).

They can explain and clarify and make things fit, and thats all great... it would be a big help. If they don't change the choices or offer any new ones, the biggest problem that most people seem to have will remain unsolved.

[BlueStorm83]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Well, we need to stop this right now. In truth we are all fanboys or whatever you want to call it. We've all been fanboys or we wouldn't be here (I say it even though I'm an older lady). We are all here because we love ME or have loved it. Many of us just want the chance to love it again. We are disappointed to put it mildly, in a game with fantastic stories, acting, music, struggles, foes, heroes, characters, and so on-disappointed that all of that seems to have been forgotten and left out of the ending of ME3.

Others are just not thrilled or think the ending is ok. Others just don't care since it had pretty colors and marines waving guns and someone died.

But I daresay we all have loved these games.

Damn straight, brother.

[akenn312]

Malditor wrote...

I had read somewhere recently that they pushed back other dlc content until the EC is released, perhaps that was false information. If so then of course my point about that is moot. My issue with what you said is the use of a derogatory term towards me, "fanboy", or anyone who actually enjoyed the game. But I'm not going to argue the point with you, as you said, it's your opinion.

Just because people have a problem with the ending or parts of the game does not mean they didn't get enjoyment out of it or are not fans of Mass Effect just like you. I also said the reason you have shown fanboy behavior is because you keep trying to make points that people who don't like the ending are ruining it for you and people like you. We are fans too and deserve an ending we can enjoy as well. Yes my opinion is my opinion and so is yours so we can both take it or leave it. 

Modifié par akenn312, 18 mai 2012 - 12:27 .

[3DandBeyond]

daveyeisley wrote...

...Snipped....

Another thing that bothers me about the destroy option though, is that it is supposed to kill the Reapers. A case can be made that they aren't truly synthetic. They are "sapient organic constructs". They are a processed/repurposed form of organic life, but still organic. Why would wiping out "all synthetic life" kill the Reapers at all?

And even so, they are sufficiently different from other synthetics that the notion the Crucible is unable to differentiate bothers me. I mean, in Control, nothing is said about taking control of all synthetic life. You just control the reapers.

The ending cinematics make it pretty clear that the energy released in each variation is pretty similar, so.... why can't the crucible control or kill just the Reapers?

Oh... right.... so that Paragons would have something to feel bittersweet about.

As if losing Anderson, Mordin, Thane, Legion, Lt. Victus, the whole Alliance War Council, the little boy on Earth, the entire staff at the Mars Archives, Joker's Dad and sister Hillary, Private Talavi's brother, Ambassador Osoba's son Bilal, Cortez's husband Robert, Kaiden's Dad, the girl waiting for her folks in the holding area's parent's (on the *really* slow shuttle), Samara's daughter Rila, Diana Aller's family on Bekenstein, Lt. Kurin and her entire company, the pilots of Talon One and Talon 5, the Krogan mechanic from ME2 (the combustion manifold guy), most of Aralakh Company or the entire Rachni species, Dorn Hazt, the entire crew of the Qwib-Qwib (Admiral Zal'Koris' ship) or Admiral Koris and some of his crew, Liara's entire homeworld, every single refugee at Sanctuary, and like half the population of the whole fricking galaxy isn't bitter enough.

Also, remember this from ME2:

Announcement: Facility Lockdown
Dr. Talarassan:

Dr. Rochelle has ordered a complete lockdown. You are hereby ordered to seal the production line access corridor from the rest of the facility.

I realize that doing this will seal me and any workers who remain inside with the malfunctioning mechs. This does not affect your orders.

It has been an honor to work with you.

Chief Saunders, Security

If Shepard is forced to sacrifice himself, it could have at least been portrayed as heroic in the sense of being reflected in the reactions of his team to a message like this, as he convinces Hackett to order the entire sword fleet to fire on the now-exposed base of the Citadel (where the crucible is docked, and Shepard and the glow boy are standing).

You are so right about the reapers, they are not synthetic lifeforms but more like hybrids of organic and synthetic life.  They actually need organic lifeforms for their reproduction and that is the cycle they are on, but the kid says something different.  The reproductive cycle is in either ME2 or 3 and I cannot remember exactly where.

Also, synthesis is an expressed desire of Sovereign's, Saren's, and so on.  Why?  Because of just what you stated here.  Again you only have to look at all the attempts to create synthesis to see how horrific it is and then listen to how Mordin describes it in ME2.

Shepard's supposed sacrifice ends up being meaningless because there's no emotional connection with it and an understanding of why, nor is there any impact of that sacrifice on anyone afterward.  Well, because there isn't much afterward.  Oh, except those friends that should be crying for Shepard running away and getting off the ship unscathed.

[Malditor]

daveyeisley wrote...

Don't get me wrong... they can fix a bunch of stuff with the extended cut. They could possibly eliminate 90% or more of the confusing bits, and do so in such a way as to vastly improve how things fit....

My concern, which I think is shared by many, is that the definition of "no new endings" seems to indicate the existing ending will not be changed, just added to.... and this most likely means the final choice will not be altered, or at least no additional choice will be given... and nothing will be removed from the choices as is (like the Geth genocide and EDI murder).

They can explain and clarify and make things fit, and thats all great... it would be a big help. If they don't change the choices or offer any new ones, the biggest problem that most people seem to have will remain unsolved.

That's true, and I know they have said they will not change the ending/s. Which unfortunately will leave those of you that really want something different still unhappy. I wish everyone was happy with the ending, but to be completely honest, i don't  think it was humanly possible to create enough endings that everyone would have gotten out of them what they wanted. The sheer number of possiblities just doesn't allow for that, at least not in an acceptable amount of time. It would have taken another whole disk just for endings.

[3DandBeyond]

daveyeisley wrote...

Don't get me wrong... they can fix a bunch of stuff with the extended cut. They could possibly eliminate 90% or more of the confusing bits, and do so in such a way as to vastly improve how things fit....

My concern, which I think is shared by many, is that the definition of "no new endings" seems to indicate the existing ending will not be changed, just added to.... and this most likely means the final choice will not be altered, or at least no additional choice will be given... and nothing will be removed from the choices as is (like the Geth genocide and EDI murder).

They can explain and clarify and make things fit, and thats all great... it would be a big help. If they don't change the choices or offer any new ones, the biggest problem that most people seem to have will remain unsolved.

I have a lot of ifs though that for me might need to be addressed to fully accept the EC.

If they could drop the star kid, allow us to at least see some of our war assets and friends in action (we acquired all those ships because we didn't want to see them fight) and if they replaced the kid with the enemies we've been fighting.  If they maybe made Shepard the Catalyst that was needed to get the Crucible/Citadel weapon to send a huge pulse that dropped the Reaper's shields and made them vulnerable. 

If maybe Joker swooped in after and picked up Shepard somehow from the Citadel and Shepard continued with the fight and the Thanix cannons got some use and Joker had a heroic part.  If Shepard got back to London and fought Harbinger or Bob the reaper (because some people don't think it's Harbinger) by where Shepard was hit by his beam-oh and Shepard and friends kill Harbinger as he says "we have no other solution.  Relinquishing control."  If Shepard lives or dies based upon choices the player made in the games and final fighting.  If friends and Love Interest live or die based upon those choices and final fighting.  If the allied fleets succeed or fail based upon player choices in the games and final fighting. 

If after all is said and done we get to see what happened and what happens next, whether that means the galaxy is ruined or not, or Shepard is mourned and/or celebrated or friends and Love Interest are mourned or reunited. If choices made before and during some final war mattered. If all this, in my opinion the ending might be rehabilitated.  But this does not seem to be what they want to do with it.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 18 mai 2012 - 12:48 .

[Archonsg]

Malditor wrote...

daveyeisley wrote...

Don't get me wrong... they can fix a bunch of stuff with the extended cut. They could possibly eliminate 90% or more of the confusing bits, and do so in such a way as to vastly improve how things fit....

My concern, which I think is shared by many, is that the definition of "no new endings" seems to indicate the existing ending will not be changed, just added to.... and this most likely means the final choice will not be altered, or at least no additional choice will be given... and nothing will be removed from the choices as is (like the Geth genocide and EDI murder).

They can explain and clarify and make things fit, and thats all great... it would be a big help. If they don't change the choices or offer any new ones, the biggest problem that most people seem to have will remain unsolved.

That's true, and I know they have said they will not change the ending/s. Which unfortunately will leave those of you that really want something different still unhappy. I wish everyone was happy with the ending, but to be completely honest, i don't  think it was humanly possible to create enough endings that everyone would have gotten out of them what they wanted. The sheer number of possiblities just doesn't allow for that, at least not in an acceptable amount of time. It would have taken another whole disk just for endings.

Not entirely true.
What one does is to boil it down to extremes and then work on the in-betweens within constraints of time and budget.
The two extremes would be, utter failure and complete victory. If you factor in renegade / paragon flavor that's 4 different endings just based on that two extremes.

This alone would have satisfied a good number of us.

Or, if they wanted to simplify the ending and keep it behavior agnostic, they could have three endings; )

1) utter defeat, with relays destroyed

2) victory with sacrifice (not to be confused with suicide/death sentence as we have now) with relays shut down

3) complete victory, relays intact and functional

But, it is obvious that the current ending (singular) and its variations were all based on one single theme to kill off Shepard. (last 2 sec breathe scene not withstanding)

So, I disagree with the assertion that there would have been too many endings. Had the creative team remained in charge of the ending instead of being supplanted (as far as we know, unofficially) by two men who cut the creative team off from all input or involvement with the current ending, this whole mess would not have happened.

I would bet a year's pay that had there even been endings based on just the two extremes, there would be alot less angry fans.

[TJBartlemus]

If you really are listening, how are you able to read all these posts? Anyway, I am sure Bioware knows about this but in case you don't you all should see the documentary on you tube about the indoctrination theory. It shows many things that are either proof that the theory is right or that you were just lazy on some parts (which as great you are at gameplay wouldn't be). If the indoctrination theory is wrong (which I feel is not) then those are some areas that would need to be fixed not to confuse fans. As I posted on another forum thread this is what I feel is going on: "I support the indoctrination theory. I watched the documentary on it and it's got some pretty convincing evidence. I feel that they we're going to do the ending dlc even before the game was released. The first ending they were going to do was released so they changed it to the indoctrination theory at last minute, and released the game before it was done. (it's happened before...kotor2) so even now they are finishing it. I also figured this out on my own but the star child controls the reapers right? Anyway the catalyst takes the form of the child which could only be possible if they were already in his/her head and taken the image. Pretty good proof that the reapers were in Shepard head in my opinion."

[daveyeisley]

Here's an analogy:

My hope for ME3 was Thessia. Bioware was Shepard.

Modifié par daveyeisley, 18 mai 2012 - 03:20 .