23455 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Voodoo-j wrote...

From what I've gleamed going over what the original writer has posted on the web, there were a few different possible endings they were building up to, and they had not dedcided on any specific one when he was part of the team.

You are right, of course, but what is interesting about all this is how much of each they left in.  They considered an indoctrination ending, dark energy ending, and so on as you say.  And I haven't really looked at what was in the leaked ending that much, but I just wonder if they hadn't really considered that all of these things would be possible endings.  Maybe they were leading up to there actually being many diverse endings and even solutions.  Maybe the dark dreary defeat ending was Shepard becoming indoctrinated and everything going to hell.  Maybe the victory one was the dark energy device-dark energy was the one thing the reapers feared and it was hinted at a lot.  Of course this is speculation but in my opinion, it could have been genius.

Maybe ultimately there was to be 3 endings, but different ways to get there and the 3 would have been different.  Indoctrination could lead to the false choice/star kid endings where nothing makes sense.  Just throwing it out there-it's meaningless but some fun to explore.

[bayul]

I Agree. My wallet may cry, my heart wouldn't.

[3DandBeyond]

daveyeisley wrote...

I agree they probsbly should have either:

a) Announced and released the game in 2 parts to properly handle the scope of the story they were tackling.

Pushed back the release date as many times as needed to do the whole thing properly, and sold it in a double thick case with 4 discs and a $80 or $90 pricetag.

I would have gladly paid for that.  Have a truly extended game where Shepard and friends are working to really get assets and you have actual on planet activity to recover some of these things.  And then have a really extended part that has all that "take Earth back" stuff, that also allows for the fight to save the galaxy.  I'd have paid for that and I would now.

Just imagine how much press they would have gotten for a 4 disc game that was epic in scope, truly epic.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 18 mai 2012 - 02:41 .

[bayul]

I have seen many indoctrination ending videos...and its sad that I feel intelligent fans are making sense of something that was obviously a production shortcut, a deadline caused mistake. Eyes that look at the wrong character, lack of blood when the illusive man kills himself, Admiral Hackket talking to Sheppard inside the Citadel...they all could be explained by the indoctrination theory...but the tri-color explosions destroying the relays and the Reapers but NOTHING ELSE...is in my view the mistake that makes everything a mistake. If the energy was enough to demolish a Mass Relay, then it was not a magical destruct/control/evolve signal. It was deadly energy, destructive energy.

Maybe the people that speak of Sheppard belonged to a non relay connected colony? Because in my view..no matter the energy color...everything nearby a relay died. 90% of the living milky way galaxy died.If you have hope, you have been indoctrinated as much as Sheppard was.

[daveyeisley]

When encountered Conrad in my first playthrough it was EPIC.

I couldnt stop laughing.

The Thermal Clip dialogue was perfect! (though considering it was hilarious simply due to the fact that Conrad's statements were 100% true, I am still perplexed by the design decision to downgrade firearms back to a limited ammunition system.... at least make it a mod so the player can choose what they want.... ie. thermal clips give a small damage or rate of fire bonus, cooldown tech gives a weight and accuracy bonus, etc... /sigh and /facepalm)

The discussion about his imaginary wife... and then the shrine to Shep.... total roflsauce

Conrad: Its just a picture with a few candles. Its very tasteful.
Shepard: "Gehh..."

And of course-

Conrad: Oh, another question. Do you really think we'll defeat the Reapers?
Shepard: You just asked me that Conrad!

LOLZ

He was such a great foil character. And it was INCREDIBLY cool when they actually made him a Doctor and had him give you his dissertation. Wish it had been worth more than 1 point.... Meh.

The tie-in with Gavin Hossle from ME1 was also fantastic! I wish that the plans he got from Hossle could have been translated after the Thessia mission where you find the Athame Codex (you know, ancient Asari writing?) even if you didnt have the stuff from ME1 for it.

They did great with him in ME3. Could have done a little more, it was still awesome. He still fits so much better and offers so much more entertainment to the player than glow boy.... hence my signature... (not to mention Conrad would have been likely to spot and call glow boy on being an idiot)

[bayul]

The Crucible was a Trap, A Trojan horse...just in case the Reapers headed for defeat.

[daveyeisley]

That totally would have been a great way to work the story. Would have made sense, too.

The characters should have been intelligent enough to allow for it to be a trap, too, though. With enough scientific war assets, the crucible team should have been able to spot the trap. With more assets, the team should have been able to fix and improve the design to make it not a trap but an actual weapon that drops all kinetic barriers in a star system, allowing for the fleets to defeat reaper capital ships without dreadnauts.

[bayul]

Exactly.

[3DandBeyond]

@daveyeisley,
I agree about Conrad now having seen what he does in ME3.  He was funny in ME1-I only recently got to play it and other games on same system.  Before, I had ME1 on PC and 2 and 3 on PS3, but my cousin got me the xbox versions.  So, I've been playing them to see if there's anything that suggests this ending.  Not so far and what becomes clear is how little meaning potentially meaningful things have.  Conrad is one of those and the schematics.  That should mean a lot, but if you only play the PS3 versions-ME2 and 3, you can't get those schematics-I don't recall even seeing Conrad.

bayul wrote...

The Crucible was a Trap, A Trojan horse...just in case the Reapers headed for defeat.

I think this seems very likely as presented.  Since the star kid is the evil being behind the reapers-he controls them and could have stopped them at any time, so he can't be any kind of good guy, it calls everything into question.

I don't hold with indoctrination as an ending, because if it was the final ending and Shepard was indoctrinated, it ruins Shepard's legacy.  S/he must give in to the evil and in so doing fates the galaxy to certain destruction.  There's no honor in it.  I see indoctrination as almost bleaker than what we now have.  All along we've been told just how strong Shepard's mind is, far different from anyone else.  Indoctrination at the end is a form of forced suicide that leads to genocide and not an auspicious way to go out.  In considering indoctrination, you have to take into account that most theories on it state that it really takes over after Shepard gets hit by the reaper beam, so at that point the Crucible and Catalyst could become the trojan horse lie you speak of.

The only way indoctrination could work as an end theme is if Shepard was or is given the final chance to reject it and get on with the business of destroying reaper babies and reaper daddy.


My point was that Bioware had considered indoctrination and dark energy as endings, along with other things.  Dark energy was the thing the reapers feared and sought to destroy.  So, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and dark energy would be (and seemingly was with the Conrad story) supposed to be the way to defeat the reapers.  This is the scene of victory-concentrated dark energy sent out by the Crucible/Citadel that doesn't destroy everything, but does destroy the reapers.  The star kid doesn't exist and isn't part of this story nor is all that stuff that we were shown up on the Citadel-it would play out differently.

Indoctrination as I've said is totally giving up.  It's defeat and would make sense as a bad, "we lost" type of ending, with scenes of the reapers destroying everyone and completing the cycle as Shepard sits babbling in a corner or dies.  All the events could play out on the Citadel just as they are now, because they could be part of indoctrination-they are crazy, stupid, illogical and all and only indoctrination can make them make sense.

Indoctrination by itself is not an ending.  It's an attempt that seems to work to explain what the ending is now.  It's the only thing that can make sense of crazy and illogical and all that.  If I only get one ending though, I don't want it to be indoctrination for the reasons I've given.  But, I can see one ending being Indoctrination-for instance, if Shepard did everything TIM wanted and gave TIM all the intelligence gathered or some such.

Just theorizing that they could have had multiple endings in mind but time constraints and pressure caused them to cut it short. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 18 mai 2012 - 03:15 .

[bayul]

Collecting War Assets might have been a valid activity in the game. As it is, it's just a story progress menu.

[sdinc009]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Fine as it is.
2%(1594 votes) - (+1 mr bubbles)

I want bubbles to explain how 2% is the majority.

Because there's only 5 of us that don't like the ending so 2 + 5 = Banana
That's basic arimathetic, where did you go to school

[bayul]

We are forgetting that Sheppard was exposed to Reaper indoctrination in ME2, the Relay explosion mission. Direct clearly stated contact.

[daveyeisley]

sdinc009 wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Fine as it is.
2%(1594 votes) - (+1 mr bubbles)

I want bubbles to explain how 2% is the majority.

Because there's only 5 of us that don't like the ending so 2 + 5 = Banana
That's basic arimathetic, where did you go to school

ROFLMAO!!

You sir, win the internet.

Edit: I just finished laughing after like 3 minutes. At one point I almost forgot to breathe. My eyes are watering. That was too damn funny.

Modifié par daveyeisley, 18 mai 2012 - 03:20 .

[Thanatos144]

bayul wrote...

We are forgetting that Sheppard was exposed to Reaper indoctrination in ME2, the Relay explosion mission. Direct clearly stated contact.

it is awful comments like this that tell me most of you dont know what the hell your talking about.



I was thinking maybe it was just you all throwing a tantrum cause Shepard dies....Now maybe you are all just cant seem to understand the whole dang series.


By the way Bayul.....Shepard isnt indocturnated.....They tell you this several times.....Maybe you need to actually pay attention.

[3DandBeyond]

bayul wrote...

We are forgetting that Sheppard was exposed to Reaper indoctrination in ME2, the Relay explosion mission. Direct clearly stated contact.

Yes, and Shepard actually had to "snap" out of it.  I can't remember the exact conversation with Hackett afterward, but Shepard was out of it for a bit.

I don't think we've forgotten that, but there's much more.  The whole galaxy is sprinkled with reaper tech.  They purposely left the stuff lying around after each cycle and I think Sovereign says this.  But it's obvious.  The Citadel and the relays themselves are reaper tech.  I can envision they were meant to be indoctrination assets.

Again, I don't fully subscribe to IT-I can't see it as being the one and only ending.  It's just that a case can be made for it and I can believe it way more easily than I can what we now have.

[sonsonthebia07]

My favorite scene was Mordin sacrificing himself to cure the genophage with the Shroud on Tuchanka. I'm not an emotional person, but that scene made me both laugh and tear up. I loved it. Mordin is one of the best characters I've seen in a long time.

I'm with what seems to be a bunch here that are saying they enjoyed the whole game up until the last 5 minutes or so. I actually replayed the ending section after the first time because I had no idea what the hell just happened at first.

[akenn312]

Honestly, I don't think what we are wanting is really enough to even put into another game disk. Actually I was okay until after the Illusive man part, everything else was pretty good. In my estimation what has been asked would be the amount of a large DLC content effort so that should be what we are getting "fingers crossed". I don't think you have to split the game into two parts like Harry Potter to make this ending problem go away. Just make a better effort and realize where you went wrong with guessing what would entertain the fans and give them closure.

Honestly I think if they had just been truthful and up front about the whole thing, that the ending will not be for everyone and might alienate the fanbase, then possibly this wouldn't have been such a debacle. At least we couldn't say they didn't warn us. Trying to make the whole game an ending then introducing Space Magic and leaving out major plot and closure parts of the game is a concept in my opinion that only would work with some people and even then you have to have perfect execution to pull it off.

But they marketed it as if no matter how you played or read into the story you would get closure and extreme satisfaction especially with the variety of choices in the end. "Cherry on top" was something I heard in promotion. They made too many guaranties of universal story satisfaction.

Well lets hope the EC is the real cherry on top this time. Hopefully they have realized their mistakes.

Modifié par akenn312, 18 mai 2012 - 03:23 .

[daveyeisley]

Thanatos144 wrote...

bayul wrote...

We are forgetting that Sheppard was exposed to Reaper indoctrination in ME2, the Relay explosion mission. Direct clearly stated contact.

it is awful comments like this that tell me most of you dont know what the hell your talking about.



I was thinking maybe it was just you all throwing a tantrum cause Shepard dies....Now maybe you are all just cant seem to understand the whole dang series.


By the way Bayul.....Shepard isnt indocturnated.....They tell you this several times.....Maybe you need to actually pay attention.

Awww, bayul! you have been graced with a response by Bubbles! If I were you, that would make me feel super special!

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

bayul wrote...

We are forgetting that Sheppard was exposed to Reaper indoctrination in ME2, the Relay explosion mission. Direct clearly stated contact.

it is awful comments like this that tell me most of you dont know what the hell your talking about.



I was thinking maybe it was just you all throwing a tantrum cause Shepard dies....Now maybe you are all just cant seem to understand the whole dang series.


By the way Bayul.....Shepard isnt indocturnated.....They tell you this several times.....Maybe you need to actually pay attention.

Obtuse thy name is bubbles.

What awful comment was that?  It's accurate.  You apparently didn't play Arrival.  Shepard is imprisoned by indoctrinated scientists who have recovered reaper tech.  Shepard's out of it for 2 days while imprisoned.  After destroying the mass relay, Hackett says something about Shepard having spent time recovering from the effects of the reaper device.  What game have you been playing?  Honestly, at this point I think you are trying to get people to call you names, but it ain't happening.

And as near as I can recall only Vigil said categorically that those in Shepard's team were not indoctrinated or indocturnated.  School, not just a word.

We've repeatedly said we don't want just a happy ending but you are not comprehending the words.  Indoctrunated?  You need to pay attention.  Sad sad person.  Bathtub bubbles.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 18 mai 2012 - 03:28 .

[bayul]

As I stated before, they should have provided at least a partial victory. The invasion fails, but the reapers retreat to keep making trouble from the edges of the universe. Though a lesson, they now see this cycle is different...a cycle bearing new data. They will learn its weaknesses and brew new trouble (New ME saga)....besides, multiplayer could have been integrated into the story FAR MORE beautifully, IF it was unlocked AFTER finishing the single player campaign for new players. Multiplayer composing the battles fought after the Earth victory/defeat/inconclusive battle, with the remnants of the Reapers and Geth, their still strong Cerberus agents and other factions using the galactic weakness to gain control as never before. I an almost see a Yahg faction in the multiplayer. Them coming in smaller numbers but more united and deadlier (like a phalanx) as durable as the Shadow broker battle. That would have been amazing. Weekend event would have had more...meat.

[Thanatos144]

LOL thanks for proving me right again....You dont understand the game....I guess it is too highbrow for you...I mean it was made for 17 and up.

[daveyeisley]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LOL thanks for proving me right again....You dont understand the game....I guess it is too highbrow for you...I mean it was made for 17 and up.

[chomicze]

Well, after two moths I tried to replay ME3 but i simply can't. I played 1 & 2, but when I began playing third part I felt broken, same feeling like after ending it first time. Still waiting for EC, still hoping for some good news. And i must say, that any other game causes something like this to me. If you read this BioWare, you must know, that you made a heartbreaker for us.

With logicless, pointless and stupid ending, that everyone who graduated more than three classes and read at least one book a year will say it's poor written and developed. For me it is obvious that it was rushed, no matter what you'll try to convince me to.

You made greatest games, and our hopes were high. Maybe too high, I suppose. Now part of us is waiting to see theirs Shep alive and happy, part of us want to see, that his/her sacrifice actually ment something. I hope that you will finaly bring joy to everyone, and this thread will be over.

I also want this thread to be over, because when I see bubbles posts, my IQ decrease drastically (call me egoistic).

[3DandBeyond]

@bayul,
What a lot of us have stated in simple terms is that there should have been a real meaningful difference in the endings.

My thoughts were that they range from shades of happy to full on happy and shades of sad to full on sad.

I stated it this way:
The reaper fight would range from full on victory over them to partial victory to full on defeat to them.

Interspersed there could have been effects on your friends-all the way from all survive to they all die.

And then interspersed with this there could have been Shepard's fate-Definitely lives, probably lives, probably dies, definitely dies.

Much of this could have depended on your choices along the way, assets gained, but also could have depended upon your final decisions in battle. Much like in ME2, who you assigned to do what.

I envisioned scenes of people crying at a memorial for a dead Shepard, just as often as I envisioned those of people celebrating with Shepard, or Shepard standing alone amidst the rubble, seeing others rebuild and feeling suddenly alone. Or, Shepard living for a bit as s/he sees the reapers coming in and the allies in defeat. Or, Shepard walking off hand in hand with a love interest and friends. I just had hoped all these things would be possible.

It would have even been great for organics this time to have defeated this invasion but only temporarily. But then the cycle is the reapers reproductive cycle, so I don't know if delaying their reproduction would mean they could come back.

They create new reapers in the form of the most highly advanced organic life in a cycle. I just wonder why we never saw a Prothean-looking one.

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LOL thanks for proving me right again....You dont understand the game....I guess it is too highbrow for you...I mean it was made for 17 and up.

Hmm I actually know some 17 year olds with more sense than this statement reflects.  They also are more respectful and decent.  You are the only one proving anything and it isn't what you think.

Bubbles = wedgie victim.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 18 mai 2012 - 03:42 .