23455 réponses à ce sujet

[bayul]

Vigil said that in ME1. He could have said something different if he met Sheppard after the arrival.

I don't like the indoctrination theory. It is as it has been mentioned, too gloomy for my taste. But it is the best way, Bioware can make sense of this enigmatic and disconnected script. can we predict a better way of fixing it without changing anything out of the bad script material at the end?---Well I'll always cry for what they did to the Rachni too, but that cause is lost.Somebody nerfed them good, and it was not the reapers.

I heard this script was written mostly by new writers and that good number of the original ME1 and 2 story developers were not in the project...is this true?

[daveyeisley]

@Bayul

Modifié par daveyeisley, 18 mai 2012 - 03:51 .

[Archonsg]

Holger1405 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

SWTOR subs cancelled. We still have 95 +/- days of play though.

Wife says she'll miss her Sith Sorceress, but its all about "integrity".

Reason for cancelling : "I cannot support a company that mis-advertised Mass Effect 3, and instead of addressing the issue, choose to both insult your paying customers and than hide behind "artistic integrity". "Multiple vastly varied endings" indeed.

I don't know how long you are married, but I , married for 17 years now, wouldn't take the beloved "Sith Sorceress" of my wife away from her, (wife reaction:     ) no I wouldn't.... 

Let me clarify. 
She gave up her Evil looking Sith for this Tera Popori and Elin  
Gotta get all that "dark and nasty" out of our system. 

[chomicze]

3DandBeyond wrote...


They create new reapers in the form of the most highly advanced organic life in a cycle. I just wonder why we never saw a Prothean-looking one.

Collectors were protheans once.

[bayul]

daveyeisley wrote...

@Bayul

Oh well. Some dreams are unattainable.

Just like a Mass Effect 3 better ending if bioware doesn't deliver.

[Archonsg]

Malditor wrote...

I wonder if this is a good portion of the 825 pages of this thread rofl.

If you would believe bubbles, there's all five of us posters posting, filling all 800+ pages. 

[3DandBeyond]

bayul wrote...

Vigil said that in ME1. He could have said something different if he met Sheppard after the arrival.

I don't like the indoctrination theory. It is as it has been mentioned, too gloomy for my taste. But it is the best way, Bioware can make sense of this enigmatic and disconnected script. can we predict a better way of fixing it without changing anything out of the bad script material at the end?---Well I'll always cry for what they did to the Rachni too, but that cause is lost.Somebody nerfed them good, and it was not the reapers.

I heard this script was written mostly by new writers and that good number of the original ME1 and 2 story developers were not in the project...is this true?

Well, for one Drew was out and he had a big hand at least in ME1.  There's mixed belief in who actually wrote the ending and the truth really is not known.  One of the main writers of ME3 (I cannot remember his name) supposedly gave an interview that said the ending was written by only one person.  This story has been refuted so the truth of it is unknown.  The proof is in the pudding though.  The ending is disconnected from many things-it's disconnected from Shepard's character and from all the stories of redemption and co-existence within ME3 alone.  Even if you totally discount the geth/quarian reunion or EDI or the Krogan cure, Shepard still knew better than the star kid did.  The conglomeration of all the disparate war assets (people from warring planets) alone defies what the star kid says. 

So, it's believable that someone wrote the ending and did not pay attention to even the biggest part of the story-the acquisition of all the war assets-assets are people and they worked together.

[Malditor]

sdinc009 wrote...
Ok, it's fine that you like the ending and want them to release DLC, but you've got to be able to see this as a whole. Right now Bioware has a problem which is that the vast majority of their fans are creating a very large problem for their company because of the ending. If they release SP DLC that does not fix that specific problem it would be bad for them. I would agree that I would also like to have extra DLC, but not before this issue gets resolved. This is business. They've got to put out fires before they can start rebuilding otherwise the whole thing will burn to the ground

You can claim it's a vast majority, however the only thing we know for sure is it's the vast majority of those who took the poll on this website. Granted that's a good number of people, but to say with such certainty that is completely indicative of the complete body of people who have bought and played this game to completition isn't truthful.
I don't dispute that a lot of people are unhappy, or that they have a right to be though. If anything, this thread has given me several examples of people giving intelligent and thoughtful reasons why they are not happy with the ending. However, it isn't just the ending a good number of the people are complaining about, but the game as a whole. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion of what they thought of the game. I would say a vast majority of people who bought the game either didn't care enough about the ending one way or the other to come online to post for or against the ending.

[daveyeisley]

Dude, that was perfect! I was so hoping you would take that opportunity.

I will set it up so others can spike it, its forum volleyball! 

[Malditor]

chomicze wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


They create new reapers in the form of the most highly advanced organic life in a cycle. I just wonder why we never saw a Prothean-looking one.

Collectors were protheans once.

Yes, I remember when they explained that in ME2. Also, you can tell by the look of the collectors that they were Protheans, like marauders were based off of turians.

Modifié par Malditor, 18 mai 2012 - 03:59 .

[bayul]

chomicze wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


They create new reapers in the form of the most highly advanced organic life in a cycle. I just wonder why we never saw a Prothean-looking one.

Collectors were protheans once.

And that's a whole lot of missmanaged genetical resources if the reapers couldn't do a single collector reaper by conquering and massacring their whole race.How could they do it wityh humans?

And the concept of Reapers looking like their parent races is awful. Do you imagine a huge floating humanoid reaper, flailing around his arms to destroy ships? hilarious. I Would have conformed to absorbing the personalities, the souls into a mainstreamed insect-like machine...and thats it.

[3DandBeyond]

chomicze wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


They create new reapers in the form of the most highly advanced organic life in a cycle. I just wonder why we never saw a Prothean-looking one.

Collectors were protheans once.

Yes, I know, but the collectors are to protheans what husks are to humans and banshees are to asari.  I mean the huge reaper ships like the human one in ME2.  It's said that they create the real big guy Reapers (husks and collectors are not reapers in the same sense as Sovereign or Harbinger are reapers) in the image of the most advanced culture of a cycle.  So, at one point Cuttlefish were the most advanced culture (Reaper "ships" look like cuttlefish).  But, there's no Prothean-looking Reaper ship.

[chomicze]

And the collector's base that we did or didn't destroyed? That what i meant, should write it first time

[daveyeisley]

My apologies to everyone, I couldn't resist. Many thanks to sdinc009 for the brilliant post




New and improved!

Modifié par daveyeisley, 18 mai 2012 - 07:00 .

[Benchpress610]

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

My favorite scene was Mordin sacrificing himself to cure the genophage with the Shroud on Tuchanka. I'm not an emotional person, but that scene made me both laugh and tear up. I loved it. Mordin is one of the best characters I've seen in a long time.

I'm with what seems to be a bunch here that are saying they enjoyed the whole game up until the last 5 minutes or so. I actually replayed the ending section after the first time because I had no idea what the hell just happened at first.

This actually happened to most of us. So, welcome to the club

[Archonsg]

3DandBeyond wrote...

chomicze wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


They create new reapers in the form of the most highly advanced organic life in a cycle. I just wonder why we never saw a Prothean-looking one.

Collectors were protheans once.

Yes, I know, but the collectors are to protheans what husks are to humans and banshees are to asari.  I mean the huge reaper ships like the human one in ME2.  It's said that they create the real big guy Reapers (husks and collectors are not reapers in the same sense as Sovereign or Harbinger are reapers) in the image of the most advanced culture of a cycle.  So, at one point Cuttlefish were the most advanced culture (Reaper "ships" look like cuttlefish).  But, there's no Prothean-looking Reaper ship.

You know, considering how deep into the space magic pool they went with the ending, we should have got an explanation of how this :




Became this :



and thru the MacGuffin Crucible in Shepard's hands became this :



If I'm gonna have Space Magic:wizard: might as well be something I can swallow. 
Just saying.

Modifié par Archonsg, 18 mai 2012 - 04:14 .

[sdinc009]

Malditor wrote...

sdinc009 wrote...
Ok, it's fine that you like the ending and want them to release DLC, but you've got to be able to see this as a whole. Right now Bioware has a problem which is that the vast majority of their fans are creating a very large problem for their company because of the ending. If they release SP DLC that does not fix that specific problem it would be bad for them. I would agree that I would also like to have extra DLC, but not before this issue gets resolved. This is business. They've got to put out fires before they can start rebuilding otherwise the whole thing will burn to the ground

You can claim it's a vast majority, however the only thing we know for sure is it's the vast majority of those who took the poll on this website. Granted that's a good number of people, but to say with such certainty that is completely indicative of the complete body of people who have bought and played this game to completition isn't truthful.
I don't dispute that a lot of people are unhappy, or that they have a right to be though. If anything, this thread has given me several examples of people giving intelligent and thoughtful reasons why they are not happy with the ending. However, it isn't just the ending a good number of the people are complaining about, but the game as a whole. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion of what they thought of the game. I would say a vast majority of people who bought the game either didn't care enough about the ending one way or the other to come online to post for or against the ending.

I'm not saying it's the "complete" body of people that would imply 100%. I'm saying vast majority which is not simply a claim but a numerical fact. Citing not only the poll with a 91% disapproval as a valid sample survey, but also the numbers of people on the Retake Mass Effect Movement is closing in to 66,000 and still growing which is double those on the official ME3 page. This doesn't even take into account the Retake pages for other countries some of which have already broken 100,000.  And this is only showing those that are actively voicing there displeasure and not those who are silent. Plus, let's not forget this very forum with 800+ pages that keeps growing with the majority of us saying the same thing. Most of those that don't come online to voice their displeasure most likely were so disappointed that they just gave up on ME3 as a whole rather than send a single moment more on it. This can be reflected in the flood of returned games and the extremely rapid price reduction of ME3.

[3DandBeyond]

Malditor wrote...

You can claim it's a vast majority, however the only thing we know for sure is it's the vast majority of those who took the poll on this website. Granted that's a good number of people, but to say with such certainty that is completely indicative of the complete body of people who have bought and played this game to completition isn't truthful.
I don't dispute that a lot of people are unhappy, or that they have a right to be though. If anything, this thread has given me several examples of people giving intelligent and thoughtful reasons why they are not happy with the ending. However, it isn't just the ending a good number of the people are complaining about, but the game as a whole. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion of what they thought of the game. I would say a vast majority of people who bought the game either didn't care enough about the ending one way or the other to come online to post for or against the ending.

Some good points here, but you must remember there are vast numbers of people that never complain about anything since they have come to believe complaining achieves nothing.  You must take the vocal group as the true representative of people who care for both sides of any argument.  It's the same in voting-vast numbers of people opt out because they can't effect change, so candidates are often elected by minority consent, by the people that are motivated to vote.

For this game specifically, we are all fans.  We are impassioned and passionate about the games.  We have loved them, and so both sides are invested in them, emotionally.  We are the ones most likely to buy more.  The others have opted out of the discussion.  So, as in any poll you are basing those for and against on "likely voters", in this case, "likely buyers".  One side of fervent, ardent, captive fans have been shoved into the "unlikely buyer" category and another remains likely.  Going forward, it's a given in retail that the likely buyer will not shout as much as the unlikely one.  And that can turn others away.  In retail, a happy customer may tell 5 people at most, an unhappy one will tell everyone.  This is what this poll means.  And no poll includes everyone-they include people who care, one way or another. 

As for love or dislike of the game-your statement is true to a point.  We all loved the game, still love a lot about it and the other 2.  What has happened is that warts that always were in these games might have been forgotten and forgiven had the ending succeeded.  Because the ending is distasteful, those other things are more evident and more important. 

I'll take the kid for instance.  I didn't much care for him throughout the game-he was meaningless.  I'm not heartless but Shepard had other people that s/he cared about.  The scenes of Earth being attacked were already hard to take.  I didn't need the kid to make me care.  I saw Anderson leave me and I worried about him-his was the face I kept seeing.  But, it was ok.  I coud accept it and get over it.  In the end, we then had the star kid forced upon us out of nowhere and I hated him and who did he look like?  The kid.  So, now whenever I see the kid I think of the stupid ending and I hate him.  I didn't before.  I do now.

There was also the rushed feeling of ME3, the scans for war assets that was just kind of meh.  And, it never made sense to me that Shepard could ask people to abandon their planets to defend Earth.  But, I got over it and it didn't break the game.  But the ending makes all of that convincing and asking people to come defend Earth seem stupid.  It all ends up being meaningless, especially since Shepard got them there, only to strand them by destroying the Mass Relays. 

Basically what happened is the ending ruins everything or almost everything for me within these 3 games. I have Shepard do things and then wonder why since it won't change anything or lead me to a satisfying conclusion.  Destroy the collector base or save it-I struggled with the decision, but it makes very little almost no difference.  And so on.

[Malditor]

sdinc009, the displeased will always be the most vocal of any group, therefore the most represented on forums and sites. The same people will typically be on each site, giving you false account of the actual number of unique people.
To be honest, we are both assuming here. I assume the silent majority, and it is by far the majority, aren't sufficiently unhappy enough to care if the ending/story is changed. You assume the exact opposite.

edit

One thought on the returned games, depending on platform, I've always returned a game after beating it if it's on the xbox or ps3. I may have done that with ME also if I hadn't gotten it for PC because ME 1 wasn't available on console. I know I'm not the only one who does that either. I've been at Gamestop many times with a lot of other people returning a game we just got on release because we beat it and a new game was released we wanted to play. So, not all returns are from spite or anger.

Modifié par Malditor, 18 mai 2012 - 04:47 .

[Holger1405]

daveyeisley wrote...


Not exactly, though. If they slow the shuttle down, its angle of descent will decay faster because gravity is now facing less resistance. I believe this would increase the penetration of the atmosphere, but heat from the shockwave compression would remain about the same.

The problem is as you said, the gravitic acceleration of the large mass of the shuttle leading to momentum which is too great, they do not have enough fuel to apply counter thrust long enough to make a significant difference. If they had the fuel, they could apply counter thrust the whole way down and make an easier re-entry.

The rock-skipping example still confirms the 'bounce-off' effect is due to too much velocity, rather than not enough.

As you said, the rock cannot penetrate the water until it slows down. Velocity increases the resistance to penetration. Shepards body travelling at lower velocity makes penetrating easier, not harder.

Well, It was pretty exactly.
With "significantly" slow the Shuttle down was meant to a velocity that wouldn't give heat problems at all.

The orbital velocity of the Space Shuttle is, as said, about 28000 Km/h, this is the velocity where gravity and velocity equals each other and the Shuttle stays in Orbit.
The re-entry velocity is about 27000 Km/h. The Shuttle is only slowed down by 1000 km/h this is enough to set it to descent.
If the Shuttle go faster, at the giving entry angle, it would burn up.
If it go slower, again, at the giving entry angle, it would be "bounce off" on the Atmosphere.
if it, before re-entry, go significantly slower, let say 20000 km/h, it couldn't hold the entry angle and would burn up or ripped apart later on.

If my assessment on the velocity and the entry angle are correct, Shepard's body would have the same Problem.
If I am wrong and the Body is significantly slower, it would be even worse. (as it would be for the Shuttle.)
In this case the Body would hit the atmosphere in an much steeper angle, and heat, due to friction, and compression would tear the Body apart.
Imagine you steering a car into a water wall with 100 Km/h and then imagine you do it with 20000 km/h... 
 
Not that I think Shepars body can resist the forces on entry even in the best circumstances.

Modifié par Holger1405, 18 mai 2012 - 04:43 .

[sdinc009]

3DandBeyond wrote...

chomicze wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


They create new reapers in the form of the most highly advanced organic life in a cycle. I just wonder why we never saw a Prothean-looking one.

Collectors were protheans once.

Yes, I know, but the collectors are to protheans what husks are to humans and banshees are to asari.  I mean the huge reaper ships like the human one in ME2.  It's said that they create the real big guy Reapers (husks and collectors are not reapers in the same sense as Sovereign or Harbinger are reapers) in the image of the most advanced culture of a cycle.  So, at one point Cuttlefish were the most advanced culture (Reaper "ships" look like cuttlefish).  But, there's no Prothean-looking Reaper ship.

 Ok, just speculation and my own assumption so please feel free to offer your own interpretations on this. Since the Human Reaper wasn't finished I figured it wasn't in it's final form. I then assumed that the species that is Reaped is only the internal form and the Uniform Reaper ship that resembles a cuttlefish is an exterior hull. So, in my mind the Human Reaper when completed would have extisted inside the cuttlefish form. This creates a mind/body state where the Human Reaper=Mind inside Cuttlefish=Body if this makes sense

[3DandBeyond]

Holger1405 wrote...

Snipped...
 
Not that I think Shepars body cud resist the forces on entry even in the best circumstances.

The problem is we do not know anything about where in the atmosphere or in orbit the Normandy was when Shepard left it.  It didn't burn up either-it did break up, but not as much as some things have done in falling to Earth.  However, there have also been lower orbit objects that have not broken up much and have run out of power and are only being propelled by Newton's law of an object in motion.  They were already propelled and in motion and were coasting to some extent.  So could Shepard's body and the Normandy be coasting. 

We have no clue as to the re-entry envelope-the atmosphere is thick and so on.  At the point where Shepard was hurled out of the Normandy, the orbit may have been low enough for that planet to not create all the stresses you point to.  Your points are good, but it's still a given that much of what's debated is based upon the Earth's gravity, pull, atmosphere, and high orbit. 

[Archonsg]

sdinc009 wrote...

... snip...

This can be reflected in the flood of returned games and the extremely rapid price reduction of ME3.

Where I reside, games are not returnable. Once used, opened or codes used, its considered non-returnable. But even so, as with many others, I am NOT displeased with the game as a whole, just that last 10 minutes that taints everything that came before.

Bottom line, I have, at this point of time, NO DESIRE to replay the ME series as a whole. This kinda sucks since I have all DLCs for both previous ME titles. 10 minutes of hubris on the part of those who wrote the ending, equates to ending what took 5 years to build.

So for my part, I'll just speak with my wallet.
Bioware had made a post saying that they wanted to "allow" others to experience the game before opening a two way  forum, a discussion if you will, 60+ days and counting and yet nothing but silence, no wait, there were those condescending Statements, so at least I know where we as customers stand, in their eyes.

Thus I cancelled my family's SWTOR subs. We still have another 3 months worth of game time (yeah, I really did want to support Bioware) paid for, but considering their attitude, I cannot further support the company by willingly throwing my money at them. And stated as my reason for cancelling my subs, mis-representation and false advertising of Mass Effect 3, specifcally statements made stating that we'd have vastly varied different endings. And that they chose instead of adressing this issue, chose to hide behind "Artistic Integrity". 

All other EA / Bioware games are on my "no buy" list as well.

3 months more to see if the EC DLC would change my mind. 
More then fair yes?

Modifié par Archonsg, 18 mai 2012 - 04:40 .

[Malditor]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Malditor wrote...

You can claim it's a vast majority, however the only thing we know for sure is it's the vast majority of those who took the poll on this website. Granted that's a good number of people, but to say with such certainty that is completely indicative of the complete body of people who have bought and played this game to completition isn't truthful.
I don't dispute that a lot of people are unhappy, or that they have a right to be though. If anything, this thread has given me several examples of people giving intelligent and thoughtful reasons why they are not happy with the ending. However, it isn't just the ending a good number of the people are complaining about, but the game as a whole. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion of what they thought of the game. I would say a vast majority of people who bought the game either didn't care enough about the ending one way or the other to come online to post for or against the ending.

Some good points here, but you must remember there are vast numbers of people that never complain about anything since they have come to believe complaining achieves nothing.  You must take the vocal group as the true representative of people who care for both sides of any argument.  It's the same in voting-vast numbers of people opt out because they can't effect change, so candidates are often elected by minority consent, by the people that are motivated to vote.

For this game specifically, we are all fans.  We are impassioned and passionate about the games.  We have loved them, and so both sides are invested in them, emotionally.  We are the ones most likely to buy more.  The others have opted out of the discussion.  So, as in any poll you are basing those for and against on "likely voters", in this case, "likely buyers".  One side of fervent, ardent, captive fans have been shoved into the "unlikely buyer" category and another remains likely.  Going forward, it's a given in retail that the likely buyer will not shout as much as the unlikely one.  And that can turn others away.  In retail, a happy customer may tell 5 people at most, an unhappy one will tell everyone.  This is what this poll means.  And no poll includes everyone-they include people who care, one way or another. 

As for love or dislike of the game-your statement is true to a point.  We all loved the game, still love a lot about it and the other 2.  What has happened is that warts that always were in these games might have been forgotten and forgiven had the ending succeeded.  Because the ending is distasteful, those other things are more evident and more important. 

I'll take the kid for instance.  I didn't much care for him throughout the game-he was meaningless.  I'm not heartless but Shepard had other people that s/he cared about.  The scenes of Earth being attacked were already hard to take.  I didn't need the kid to make me care.  I saw Anderson leave me and I worried about him-his was the face I kept seeing.  But, it was ok.  I coud accept it and get over it.  In the end, we then had the star kid forced upon us out of nowhere and I hated him and who did he look like?  The kid.  So, now whenever I see the kid I think of the stupid ending and I hate him.  I didn't before.  I do now.

There was also the rushed feeling of ME3, the scans for war assets that was just kind of meh.  And, it never made sense to me that Shepard could ask people to abandon their planets to defend Earth.  But, I got over it and it didn't break the game.  But the ending makes all of that convincing and asking people to come defend Earth seem stupid.  It all ends up being meaningless, especially since Shepard got them there, only to strand them by destroying the Mass Relays. 

Basically what happened is the ending ruins everything or almost everything for me within these 3 games. I have Shepard do things and then wonder why since it won't change anything or lead me to a satisfying conclusion.  Destroy the collector base or save it-I struggled with the decision, but it makes very little almost no difference.  And so on.

Here's my theory on why it was so important about saving Earth, and why only humans were being "transformed" into a Reaper. While humanity wasn't the most advanced, it was a human that was the largest obsticle to the Reaper invasion and therefore deemed the largest threat. It showed that the largest force of Reapers were headed to destroy Earth, and therefore in order to stop the overall reaper threat we needed to destroy the force attacking Earth to win the overall battle. This is my theory, and I make no claim that it is or must be the right one.

[Holger1405]

Archonsg wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

SWTOR subs cancelled. We still have 95 +/- days of play though.

Wife says she'll miss her Sith Sorceress, but its all about "integrity".

Reason for cancelling : "I cannot support a company that mis-advertised Mass Effect 3, and instead of addressing the issue, choose to both insult your paying customers and than hide behind "artistic integrity". "Multiple vastly varied endings" indeed.

I don't know how long you are married, but I , married for 17 years now, wouldn't take the beloved "Sith Sorceress" of my wife away from her, (wife reaction:     ) no I wouldn't.... 

Let me clarify. 
She gave up her Evil looking Sith for this Tera Popori and Elin  
Gotta get all that "dark and nasty" out of our system. 

Fair trade!