23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Benchpress610]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

I have a niggling hope that 1 year when they wind down the DLC we will have this issue addressed.

I think the arrival came out a year after ME2's release.

That would be a mistake to cave in to the few.

Fine as it is.
2%(1594 votes) - (+1 mr bubbles)

I agree.

It might've taken an overdose of "Spaceoline"

Edit: Ah.. Asimov, now that was a SI-FI writer

Modifié par Benchpress610, 19 mai 2012 - 02:59 .

[Thanatos144]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

I have a niggling hope that 1 year when they wind down the DLC we will have this issue addressed.

I think the arrival came out a year after ME2's release.

That would be a mistake to cave in to the few.

Fine as it is.
2%(1594 votes) - (+1 mr bubbles)

I agree.

Yes keep spouting the online poll ...I am sure in your mind that is all
the proof you need even though most people don't vote in online polls mostly  those mad at something do.

Modifié par Thanatos144, 19 mai 2012 - 02:56 .

[Andy the Black]

Redbelle wrote...

To my knowledge the EC DLC will only add extra scenes to the ending to flesh out how decisions made earlier in game affect the end.

That said BW are playing their cards close to their chest atm so they might look at the game and see area's where they can add extra cinematics to provide context and prepare players better for how the ending plays out.

Atm I think it's going to come down to a wait and see.

 

I really do think that a few pieces of dialogue that subtly point to a power behind the reapers pre end game would do wonders. One of my big issues with the catalyst is that there is no hint to his existence in the entire trilogy. Klencory notwithstanding.

[SP2219]

 
Here's a list of questions I expect the Extended Cut DLC to answer.  A lot of these questions were raised in the last hour of Mass Effect 3 and simply didn't need to be raised in the first place.  Some of the questions are so mind bogglingly complex and absurd I don't think anyone could possibly try to answer them.  If Bioware were to rewrite the ending from the ground up, 80% of these questions would magically disappear and would not need to be answered.
Anyway, just to give you an idea of how horrendously confused I am, here goes. 

How does synthesis work?  How can a wave of light transform DNA? I know for a fact that electromagnetic radiation tends to damage or kill living cells.  It definitely cannot repair them or fuse them together with a synthetic material.  To do so would also kill the cell.  I also know that green light is in the middle of the visible electromagnetic spectrum.  The photons associated with green light have lower energy than blue photons, as the frequency of blue light is higher than green light.  By Planck's law, the energy of a photon is E=hf where f is the frequency and h is a positive constant called Planck's constant.  If anything, blue light has a higher chance of causing any molecular change within DNA because blue light may contain photons in the UV frequency spectrum, and UV photons can be ionising.  Green photons are non-ionising.  When we shine green light on our skin, nothing happens.  When we shine UV light on our skin, we get a tan, because the photons have sufficient energy to ionise the atoms and molecules within our cells.

Surely, then, the synthesis option should use blue light, or UV light or any radiation of higher frequency than this, in order to facilitate a molecular change of any kind, and not green light?  We also know that visible light is easily absorbed by solid matter such as rocks present on the Earth.  What about the people on the other side of the Earth?  Did they get hit by the synthesis electromagnetic pulse?  is that even possible?  Surely the eloectromagnetic pulse would only be able to coat a maximum surface area of one semi-sphere, and hence not cause synthesis within the entire human population?  We know this because the Sun is a point source of visible light and this light can only cover roughly half of Earth's surface area at any one time, because the light that hits the Earth is quickly absorbed by its surface - hence we get the day-night cycle.  

So, will EDI now be able to have children now? Did the synthesis process give her internal organs to make her capable of reproduction?  Did the same thing happen with the Geth?  What exactly happened to the Reapers?  Weren't they already cybernetic, a mix of organic and synthetics?  How did that even work anyway?  Weren't the Reapers originally just a race of machines as established in Mass Effect 1, a race of true artificial intelligences, hence not organic in any way?  Why did this change in Mass Effect 2?

How does controlling the Reapers work?  How can Shepard control the Reapers if he's dead?  How can Shepard give orders to the Reapers?  How can the Reapers possibly be controlled if they themselves are "true artificial intelligences" and thus capable of free will?

Why did the destroy ending involve shooting a glass tube?  How does shooting a glass tube, or part of a machine, activate the machine and not break it?  Why did Shepard walk towards the explosion?  Why did Shepard or I have any reason to believe shooting the glass tube would work?

Why is Joker running away from Earth?  How did he get to the mass relay in time before it exploded and sent the energy to the other relays?  The energy blast from the relay, when viewed from the galaxy map perspective, is clearly moving at roughly 80,000 light years a second - how is Joker possibly able to outrun this energy blast?  Why does the energy blast damage the Normandy's engines when in the scene before on Earth, the blast did not damage the forces on the ground?  Did the relay explosion damage the ships in orbit above Earth, and cause those ships to crash land on Earth?  How could they have managed a safe landing?  Surely if the crews of the victory fleet either lost control of their engines, or had their engines destroyed, that would have made entering the Earth's atmosphere incredibly dangerous or perhaps fatal?  Did the relay explosion cause any other damage to the victory fleet ships, if so how bad was it?  Were there any hull breaches?  Was anyone sucked into the vacuum of space?  Did anyone need to be resurrected by another Lazarus project?  If the relay explosion took out the Normandy's engines, did it take out the element zero drive core as well?  If so, did the Normandy lose artificial gravity?  If yes, then does that mean all the ships in the victory fleet lost artificial gravity also?  What would be the consequences of that and how would the fleets manage a zero G environment as they plummet towards Earth?  Do they still have kinetic barriers?  Will they be able to enter Earth's atmosphere without burning up?

How did every member of my squad get back onto the Normandy?  Why did they get back onto the Normandy?  When did they get back onto the Normandy?  Where did they get back onto the Normandy?

How did the Normandy crash onto a perfect jungle like planet?  Aren't those the rarest planets one can possibly hope to find in the galaxy?  How could they have possibly been that lucky, particularly if their engines were destroyed, and Joker had absolutely no control over where and how they were going to land?  How did Joker know the air was breathable?  What kind of food is present on the planet, and how will the either the L amino or D amino crew members avoid starving to death?  Is the food toxic like on Jacob's loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2?  How are they going to survive?

What does Liara think of all this?  Does she know that Shepard is dead?  Is she not worried that he might be?  Does she not miss her lover?  Is she not upset she won't be having any blue children with him?
What does Garrus think of all this?  What does Tali think?  What does Javik think?  What does EDI think?  What are the thoughts of all these people on what happened:

Samara? 
Zaeed? 
Miranda? 
Jack? 
Steve Cortez? 
James Vega? 
Ashley? 
Grunt? 
Admiral Raan? 
Primarch Victus? 
Wrex? 
Bakara? 
Kasumi? 
Admiral Hackett? 
Daro Xen?
Jacob?

How did the Citadel move to Earth?  How is it able to move?  Does it have thrusters?  Where are they and how do they work?  How did the Reapers control it?  How did the Reapers take control of the Citadel?  Did they kill the council?  Did everyone on the Citadel die?  What happened to Commander Bailey, and all the other people on the Citadel?

Who is the Catalyst?  How do we know that what it is saying is reliable or even true?  Why does it look like the child from Shepard's dreams, when in real life that child is dead?  Why does the Catalyst or Shepard not mention the alliance between the Quarians and the Geth as a valid counter argument to the Catalysts motives that must be addressed?  How can the Catalyst control the Reapers if the Reapers are supposed to have free will?  How are the Reapers functioning as organic civilisation hive minds if they are being controlled by the Catalyst?  Why can't the Catalyst offer some valid proof that it does indeed have control over the Reapers?  If the Catalyst has been present on the Citadel all along, and it is the force behind the Reapers, why didn't the Catalyst take control of the Citadel prior to the events of Mass Effect 1?  If it controls the Reapers, it controlled Sovereign in Mass Effect 1.  Why then, did it need to indoctrinate Saren in order to gain control of the Citadel if the Catalyst was present on the Citadel all along? 

Okay, here's the big one! 

In Mass Effect 1 it is established that the Reapers built the Citadel.  How did they build the Citadel if the Citadel is the Catalyst, and the Catalyst is the one who built the Reapers?  
(This is the biggest reason why the Catalyst must be removed.  You cannot hope to logically explain this.  It is impossible).

Who created the Catalyst?  Is the Catalyst an individual or a collective?  Why does it refer to itself as an individual and then as a collective?  Is there more than one Catalyst?  Is the Catalyst a Reaper?  Why does the Catalyst not have any resemblence to a Reaper, if it was the one who created them?  Why does it look like a human child, when it has clearly been in existence for millions of years before humanity even evolved?  The Geth bear a resemblence to the Quarians, reminiscent of the idea of the Christian God creating man in his own image.  Why did the Catalyst decide to design the Reapers to look the way they do?  Why did he give them the ability to indoctrinate, torture and mutilate organics?  Isn't that an extremely cruel way of controlling the population of sentient races?  If the problem is synthetic life, than why not use some elaborate electromagnetic pulse device that destroys all electronics to send the races of the galaxy back to their respective stone ages?  Wouldn't that solve the problem, without having to kill anyone?  If the Reapers are trying to convert organics into Reapers, then why are they indiscriminately vapourising them with lasers?  Wouldn't it be better to take out just the military forces first then harvest the rest?

How can a Reaper be an organic civilisation hivemind if all the members of that organic civilisation are rendered brain dead during the Reaper transformation process?  Why are they not taking the brains of their victims, where all the intelligence is stored, and trying to preserve them?  Surely they would want to keep the brains intact at the very least?  Where does the Reaper's intelligence come from then?  Why does the Reaper need dead organic tissue anyway?  Wouldn't that cause the Reaper to be damaged by harmful electromagnetic radiation in space, exposure to space vacuum and near 0K temperatures?  How can a Reaper be immortal if it is made up of organic material that withers and dies as time progresses? 

What is a Thanix missile?  What does it do that makes it more effective than other weapons for killing Reapers?  Why wasn't the targeting laser from Rannoch used at all?  Why didn't we try using the Cain a bit more if it was able to destroy a Reaper Destroyer in one hit?  Why didn't Shepard tell anyone how to kill Reaper Destroyers in this manner?  Why didn't any member of Shepard's crew, such as EDI and Liara, tell anyone how to destroy Reapers, or provide any valid assistance?

What role did the members of Shepard's squad play in the final battle?  Was there any point in bringing them?

What role did the Geth play in the final battle?  Was there any point in giving them true sentience and allying them with the Quarians?

What role did the Quarians play in the final battle?  Was there any point in giving them back Rannoch and allying them with the Geth?

What role did the Turians play in the final battle?  Was there any point in saving Palaven?

What role did the Krogan play in the final battle?  Was there any point in curing the Genophage?

What role did the Asari play in the final battle? Was there any point in trying to save Thessia?

What role did the Terminus fleet play in the final battle?  Was there any point in recruiting the merc groups with Aria T'Loak?

What role did all those scientists on the Crucible play?  Was there any point in assigning them to the project?  

What role did the Rachni play in the final battle?  Was there any point in showing mercy in Mass Effect 1 saving them from extinction?

What role did Javik play in the final battle?  Was there any point in paying £10 to unlock him?

What role did the Salarians play in the final battle?  Was there any point in helping Kirrahe survive Virmire?

What role did the colony at Zhu's Hope play?  They were a war asset right?  Was there any point in saving the colonists in Mass Effect 1? 

And finally, was there any point in ANYTHING that happened in Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2, or the events of Mass Effect 3?

[Redbelle]

Andy the Black wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

To my knowledge the EC DLC will only add extra scenes to the ending to flesh out how decisions made earlier in game affect the end.

That said BW are playing their cards close to their chest atm so they might look at the game and see area's where they can add extra cinematics to provide context and prepare players better for how the ending plays out.

Atm I think it's going to come down to a wait and see.

 

I really do think that a few pieces of dialogue that subtly point to a power behind the reapers pre end game would do wonders. One of my big issues with the catalyst is that there is no hint to his existence in the entire trilogy. Klencory notwithstanding.

Remember Sovereign from ME1. At the beginning he wasn't a he. just an unknown scary space ship. Then we're told that their is a race called the Reapers. Then later we learn the scary space ship is a Reaper and it's been right in front of us all along.

That's some classy writing.

[Redbelle]

@sp

Whew that's alot of stuff to go through. Gonna need awhile to assimilate it.

[3DandBeyond]

@SP2219,
Exactly-fantastic post! But, it almost all boils down to this:

Why this ending when there was so much to work with, when people could accept simple straightforward fights for survival or would embrace true intellectual discussion of that which drives the reapers to do what they do?

Why limited similar endings with a real lack of logic that is being foisted upon fans that have now been insulted to be told they just don't "get" it? Even people that are ok with the endings (haven't seen many if any that say they are just awesome and all they expected) have vastly different views on what it's all supposed to mean. And in order to back up their understanding of it all, they must make up huge portions of story to explain it.

One major question, what on Earth were you drinking? Um, I mean thinking?

Again, no one that is ok with the endings and certainly not any of the writers or the devs or CH has explained how this makes sense:

The created will always rebel against the creator and thus destroy the creator so you must be destroyed to keep the created from destroying you. In what altered state of mind would one have to be to accept this without at least asking, "wh......wha....what did you say?" After which they'd lookd around for the tv cameras to see if they'd been punk'd.

If it means I'm stupid because I think this makes no sense, then I'd rather be ignorant and never understand it.

[Malditor]

Andy the Black wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

To my knowledge the EC DLC will only add extra scenes to the ending to flesh out how decisions made earlier in game affect the end.

That said BW are playing their cards close to their chest atm so they might look at the game and see area's where they can add extra cinematics to provide context and prepare players better for how the ending plays out.

Atm I think it's going to come down to a wait and see.

 

I really do think that a few pieces of dialogue that subtly point to a power behind the reapers pre end game would do wonders. One of my big issues with the catalyst is that there is no hint to his existence in the entire trilogy. Klencory notwithstanding.

I don't remember everything from every ME game because they've been spread out over several years, however I thought someone mentioned that "a being of light" or whatever created or controlled the reapers in one of the DLCs from a previous game. I could be completely wrong here, but just in case someone does know for sure.

[Malditor]

3DandBeyond wrote...

@SP2219,
Exactly-fantastic post! But, it almost all boils down to this:

Why this ending when there was so much to work with, when people could accept simple straightforward fights for survival or would embrace true intellectual discussion of that which drives the reapers to do what they do?

Why limited similar endings with a real lack of logic that is being foisted upon fans that have now been insulted to be told they just don't "get" it? Even people that are ok with the endings (haven't seen many if any that say they are just awesome and all they expected) have vastly different views on what it's all supposed to mean. And in order to back up their understanding of it all, they must make up huge portions of story to explain it.

One major question, what on Earth were you drinking? Um, I mean thinking?

Again, no one that is ok with the endings and certainly not any of the writers or the devs or CH has explained how this makes sense:

The created will always rebel against the creator and thus destroy the creator so you must be destroyed to keep the created from destroying you. In what altered state of mind would one have to be to accept this without at least asking, "wh......wha....what did you say?" After which they'd lookd around for the tv cameras to see if they'd been punk'd.

If it means I'm stupid because I think this makes no sense, then I'd rather be ignorant and never understand it.

It isn't just about the created destroying the created, it's that synthetics will wipe out ALL organic life. Each cycle the civilizations that are not evolved enough are left alone. What I wonder, is are the Reapers the synthetics (or decendant/variation) that STARTED the cycle and the "star child" is the representation of the "shepard" that saved all remaining organics by taking control of them? Now that's a provocative idea that probably everyone will reject...

Modifié par Malditor, 19 mai 2012 - 03:40 .

[HyperGlass]

Malditor wrote...

I don't remember everything from every ME game because they've been spread out over several years, however I thought someone mentioned that "a being of light" or whatever created or controlled the reapers in one of the DLCs from a previous game. I could be completely wrong here, but just in case someone does know for sure.

The "beings of light" were mentioned in ME1 but they weren't explained in that big of detail aside they are believed to have acted as guardians to protect organic life from the Reapers. Also, the Catalyst is hinted to be of of them from what I read off the ME wiki.

[Malditor]

HyperGlass wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I don't remember everything from every ME game because they've been spread out over several years, however I thought someone mentioned that "a being of light" or whatever created or controlled the reapers in one of the DLCs from a previous game. I could be completely wrong here, but just in case someone does know for sure.

The "beings of light" were mentioned in ME1 but they weren't explained in that big of detail aside they are believed to have acted as guardians to protect organic life from the Reapers. Also, the Catalyst is hinted to be of of them from what I read off the ME wiki.

Hmm... That could be used to support my previous comment to 3D....

[3DandBeyond]

HyperGlass wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I don't remember everything from every ME game because they've been spread out over several years, however I thought someone mentioned that "a being of light" or whatever created or controlled the reapers in one of the DLCs from a previous game. I could be completely wrong here, but just in case someone does know for sure.

The "beings of light" were mentioned in ME1 but they weren't explained in that big of detail aside they are believed to have acted as guardians to protect organic life from the Reapers. Also, the Catalyst is hinted to be of of them from what I read off the ME wiki.

This is correct as far as the beings of light, but the whole problem is in describing them as guardians.  They are then set up in a very minor missable way as being a force for good.  But the star kid is definitely not good.  The codex could of course be wrong, because it's what they are believed to be, so it could fit.  But, you don't set up a major plot point by using one extremely minor almost unknown codex entry-if it were to be this, then all along the 3 stories there should have been some major hints at it.  The problem is the beings of light were never supposed to be a part of the ending, so they were never referenced in any major way in the games.  It does seem however that that's what they did with the star kid-but that's just great.  Many people never played ME1 because they couldn't and so they never even had the chance to read that tiny codex entry.

[darky00]

SP2219 > Nice post

This is the problem with this last trilogy episode, from beginning to the end, you are rushed to complete objectives, problems old of centuries, and just waves after waves you fix it, with so few narration through it all. That's not only the end in that case, wasted by introduction of that "being of light".

What surprised me the most is that you see so few on the final battle, after a thousand of ships came by the mass relay. Always up to Shepard to deal with reapers forces then, hammer sucking like ****, where are Krogans ? Turians ? Asari ? Salarians ? Geth ? Quarians.. nowhere.

Adding cinematics and dialogues won't be enough, i can't say i'm not waiting for this EC, but i know this could get worse if Bioware didn't take in consideration SO MUCH feedbacks from fans and still stick that much to their "art".

[Andy the Black]

Redbelle wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

To my knowledge the EC DLC will only add extra scenes to the ending to flesh out how decisions made earlier in game affect the end.

That said BW are playing their cards close to their chest atm so they might look at the game and see area's where they can add extra cinematics to provide context and prepare players better for how the ending plays out.

Atm I think it's going to come down to a wait and see.

 

I really do think that a few pieces of dialogue that subtly point to a power behind the reapers pre end game would do wonders. One of my big issues with the catalyst is that there is no hint to his existence in the entire trilogy. Klencory notwithstanding.

Remember Sovereign from ME1. At the beginning he wasn't a he. just an unknown scary space ship. Then we're told that their is a race called the Reapers. Then later we learn the scary space ship is a Reaper and it's been right in front of us all along.

That's some classy writing.

That convocation with Sovereign on Virmire is one of the most memorable moments, not just in Mass Effect, but all gaming for me, I was like "holy sh*t !". The first Mass Effect did so many things right, the reveal of Sovereign as a reaper was a great way up the ante and see what you were really dealing with. The Reapers weren't just Geth on steroids or Mass Effect Borg, they were freeking giant space ships who were older that God and had epic voices.

I remember going into 3 thinking "how are we going to beat these things?". The Reapers were unknowable, their motives beyond us, thats what made them such a great villain (well that a and their iconic trash can screech). Then Bio go and bring in some random man behind the curtain without even hinting that there might be a greater power. Way to knock down one of the most terrifying villains since Mumm-Ra.

[Malditor]

3DandBeyond wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I don't remember everything from every ME game because they've been spread out over several years, however I thought someone mentioned that "a being of light" or whatever created or controlled the reapers in one of the DLCs from a previous game. I could be completely wrong here, but just in case someone does know for sure.

The "beings of light" were mentioned in ME1 but they weren't explained in that big of detail aside they are believed to have acted as guardians to protect organic life from the Reapers. Also, the Catalyst is hinted to be of of them from what I read off the ME wiki.

This is correct as far as the beings of light, but the whole problem is in describing them as guardians.  They are then set up in a very minor missable way as being a force for good.  But the star kid is definitely not good.  The codex could of course be wrong, because it's what they are believed to be, so it could fit.  But, you don't set up a major plot point by using one extremely minor almost unknown codex entry-if it were to be this, then all along the 3 stories there should have been some major hints at it.  The problem is the beings of light were never supposed to be a part of the ending, so they were never referenced in any major way in the games.  It does seem however that that's what they did with the star kid-but that's just great.  Many people never played ME1 because they couldn't and so they never even had the chance to read that tiny codex entry.

It is true, they have been lacking in information, but bringing them back at then end sort of closes the circle as it were. They were there at the beginning protecting organics from the reapers and at the end are there to "help" shepard make his choice on how to stop them. Of course, like everything I say here, I don't expect anyone to believe me or insist they do. I just like throwing out these ideas and seeing what others think. At least those who respond intelligently and not just by saying "oh that's just stupid" or some variation.

Modifié par Malditor, 19 mai 2012 - 03:46 .

[3DandBeyond]

Malditor wrote...

It isn't just about the created destroying the created, it's that synthetics will wipe out ALL organic life. Each cycle the civilizations that are not evolved enough are left alone. What I wonder, is are the Reapers the synthetics (or decendant/variation) that STARTED the cycle and the "star child" is the representation of the "shepard" that saved all remaining organics by taking control of them? Now that's a provocative idea that probably everyone will reject...

I took what the star kid said specifically.  Minor organic life did not create the synthetics that now exist.  He says the created will destroy the creator, not that the created will destroy everything.  The reapers will not destroy the lesser evolved organic life, true.  They wait for it to advance, but they actually cause organic life to advance artificially by leaving reaper tech lying around-they do this purposely though I can't remember if it's Sovereign that says this. 

None of this matters because at a bare minimum Shepard knew that one could try to reunite warring and disparate factions and that total inevitable destruction was the product of a defeatist mind.

The reapers are not strictly just synthetic and their goal is true synthesis-this is what they are working for and I submit it is similar as to what Archer is trying to do in Project Overlord.  It's kind of like what Buffalo Bill is doing in Silence of the Lambs.  For anyone that did not read it, he's a serial killer that uses female victim's skin to try and become them in a way.  In Overlord, Archer attempts synthesis or melding of his brother's mind to a VI. 

I think the reapers are doing something similar-they use organic material but have not fully assimilated (ascended) it.  The use of ascension indicates they believe themselves to be vastly superior like gods and are as such incomprehensible.  On the derelict reaper one of the indoctrinated scientists in a lab report calls someone (the indoctrinator) an "insane god" saying even such a one has dreams.  This is key in my opinion.

Unfortunately, I can't see the star kid as Shepard - actually I've wondered this but then because the thing is either evil or crazy, the thought that it is Shepard's mind dreaming and all means Shepard sucks.  Not good for the hero of 3 games.  It then becomes like the ending to an old Infocom text game, "A Mind Forever Voyaging" in which winning the player's mind remains in simulation mode inside a computer.

[Andy the Black]

Malditor wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I don't remember everything from every ME game because they've been spread out over several years, however I thought someone mentioned that "a being of light" or whatever created or controlled the reapers in one of the DLCs from a previous game. I could be completely wrong here, but just in case someone does know for sure.

The "beings of light" were mentioned in ME1 but they weren't explained in that big of detail aside they are believed to have acted as guardians to protect organic life from the Reapers. Also, the Catalyst is hinted to be of of them from what I read off the ME wiki.

This is correct as far as the beings of light, but the whole problem is in describing them as guardians.  They are then set up in a very minor missable way as being a force for good.  But the star kid is definitely not good.  The codex could of course be wrong, because it's what they are believed to be, so it could fit.  But, you don't set up a major plot point by using one extremely minor almost unknown codex entry-if it were to be this, then all along the 3 stories there should have been some major hints at it.  The problem is the beings of light were never supposed to be a part of the ending, so they were never referenced in any major way in the games.  It does seem however that that's what they did with the star kid-but that's just great.  Many people never played ME1 because they couldn't and so they never even had the chance to read that tiny codex entry.

It is true, they have been lacking in information, but bringing them back at then end sort of closes the circle as it were. They were there at the beginning protecting organics from the reapers and at the end are there to "help" shepard make his choice on how to stop them. Of course, like everything I say here, I don't expect anyone to believe me or insist they do. I just like throwing out these ideas and seeing what others think. At least those who respond intelligently and not just by saying "oh that's just stupid" or some variation.

I'm totally on board with The Catalyst being a Being of Light (it's as much as been confirmed by the very lovely Jessica Merizan) , I even like they bring these kind of things back up, like they did with the Leviathan of Dis. The problem is The Catalyst is such a major player he should not have been brought in in the last 5 minutes with the only hint at his/it's/wtfe's existence being an obscure planet codex entry that not everybody could or would have read and even less would reameber.

[3DandBeyond]

Malditor wrote...


It is true, they have been lacking in information, but bringing them back at then end sort of closes the circle as it were. They were there at the beginning protecting organics from the reapers and at the end are there to "help" shepard make his choice on how to stop them. Of course, like everything I say here, I don't expect anyone to believe me or insist they do. I just like throwing out these ideas and seeing what others think. At least those who respond intelligently and not just by saying "oh that's just stupid" or some variation.

And I mean no disrespect, but how exactly are they helping Shepard?  The star kid says he controls the reapers and they are his solution-he could have helped everyone if he'd just sent the reapers off long ago to play on a beach somewhere.  Understand this, the kid is not a guardian, is not protecting anyone, he has been sending his reaper children to turn sentient organic life into goo.  I'm pretty sure if some guy showed up at my doorstep with a bunch of guys that he totally controls with guns and told them to kill my family, and then said he was there to help, I would not believe him.  Why on Earth would Shepard and why would you?

The guy at the door brought the thugs to hurt me-he didn't have to, he could have kept them away.  The star kid controls (he says controls) the reapers and sends them to kill untold trillions of people that think, feel, love, hate, struggle, work, use, abuse, sacrifice, and live.  He isn't there to help anyone but himself and his "kids".

I will repeat myself.  He's lying.  The reapers harvest organics every 50k years as part of their reproduction cycle.  They need the organic goo to live and love and make babies.  Ever been lied to or lie to anyone for sex.  Hmmmmmm.....  The kid doesn't even want to buy anyone dinner first.

[Redbelle]

Andy the Black wrote...

Malditor wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I don't remember everything from every ME game because they've been spread out over several years, however I thought someone mentioned that "a being of light" or whatever created or controlled the reapers in one of the DLCs from a previous game. I could be completely wrong here, but just in case someone does know for sure.

The "beings of light" were mentioned in ME1 but they weren't explained in that big of detail aside they are believed to have acted as guardians to protect organic life from the Reapers. Also, the Catalyst is hinted to be of of them from what I read off the ME wiki.

This is correct as far as the beings of light, but the whole problem is in describing them as guardians.  They are then set up in a very minor missable way as being a force for good.  But the star kid is definitely not good.  The codex could of course be wrong, because it's what they are believed to be, so it could fit.  But, you don't set up a major plot point by using one extremely minor almost unknown codex entry-if it were to be this, then all along the 3 stories there should have been some major hints at it.  The problem is the beings of light were never supposed to be a part of the ending, so they were never referenced in any major way in the games.  It does seem however that that's what they did with the star kid-but that's just great.  Many people never played ME1 because they couldn't and so they never even had the chance to read that tiny codex entry.

It is true, they have been lacking in information, but bringing them back at then end sort of closes the circle as it were. They were there at the beginning protecting organics from the reapers and at the end are there to "help" shepard make his choice on how to stop them. Of course, like everything I say here, I don't expect anyone to believe me or insist they do. I just like throwing out these ideas and seeing what others think. At least those who respond intelligently and not just by saying "oh that's just stupid" or some variation.

I'm totally on board with The Catalyst being a Being of Light (it's as much as been confirmed by the very lovely Jessica Merizan) , I even like they bring these kind of things back up, like they did with the Leviathan of Dis. The problem is The Catalyst is such a major player he should not have been brought in in the last 5 minutes with the only hint at his/it's/wtfe's existence being an obscure planet codex entry that not everybody could or would have read and even less would reameber.

Do you think that maybe BW will expand the SC's role throughout the game in the EC? If the SC was actually that other kid who no one else but Shep see's that would imply that he's been watching events the whole time and paying special attention to Shep in particular........... Unless The SC's been seeing other characters behinds my back. And how would I know if I can't see him except when he's invading Shepards dreams with oily smoke stuff.

[Malditor]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Malditor wrote...


It is true, they have been lacking in information, but bringing them back at then end sort of closes the circle as it were. They were there at the beginning protecting organics from the reapers and at the end are there to "help" shepard make his choice on how to stop them. Of course, like everything I say here, I don't expect anyone to believe me or insist they do. I just like throwing out these ideas and seeing what others think. At least those who respond intelligently and not just by saying "oh that's just stupid" or some variation.

And I mean no disrespect, but how exactly are they helping Shepard?  The star kid says he controls the reapers and they are his solution-he could have helped everyone if he'd just sent the reapers off long ago to play on a beach somewhere.  Understand this, the kid is not a guardian, is not protecting anyone, he has been sending his reaper children to turn sentient organic life into goo.  I'm pretty sure if some guy showed up at my doorstep with a bunch of guys that he totally controls with guns and told them to kill my family, and then said he was there to help, I would not believe him.  Why on Earth would Shepard and why would you?

The guy at the door brought the thugs to hurt me-he didn't have to, he could have kept them away.  The star kid controls (he says controls) the reapers and sends them to kill untold trillions of people that think, feel, love, hate, struggle, work, use, abuse, sacrifice, and live.  He isn't there to help anyone but himself and his "kids".

I will repeat myself.  He's lying.  The reapers harvest organics every 50k years as part of their reproduction cycle.  They need the organic goo to live and love and make babies.  Ever been lied to or lie to anyone for sex.  Hmmmmmm.....  The kid doesn't even want to buy anyone dinner first.

They don't harvest all sentient life, just as a side note, just technologically advanced life. The difference between you and I here is that you believe that the being is evil and I don't. The being is doing what it believes is right based on eons of experience watching the same events happen and threatening the existence of all organic life. I don't expect you to feel that way, and I'm sure you don't expect me to feel the way you do. And no, I've never lied or been lied to for sex :-P. Always been in committed relationships before getting to that point.

[3DandBeyond]

The fact that the star kid and reapers created the Citadel and it is implied created the plans for the Crucible means they want them to mate thus creating the chance for true synthesis. The kid says he couldn't do it himself-he kept trying with the reapers to create synthesis but it was flawed. He's the insane god dreaming. He purposely makes both control and destroy abhorrent options and puts synthesis in the best light-it's the final point, the epitome of evolution. He wants what Sovereign said, synthesis.

But no advanced organic before humans was up to the challenge and their previous DNA was lacking. The kid needed a human to insert the necessary final DNA-the best DNA, the most diverse.

It's obvious to me, synthesis is what he wants, because he had the power to do the other 2 things. He already controlled the reapers, so needed no one else to control them. He could potentially destroy them, but since he controlled them he didn't need to unless they might rise up to destroy him somehow-unlikely because if he's a being of light, they'd have no way to harvest him. The kid kind of smiles if you choose synthesis and he does not disappear, because in choosing it you are giving him life.

[Redbelle]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Malditor wrote...


It is true, they have been lacking in information, but bringing them back at then end sort of closes the circle as it were. They were there at the beginning protecting organics from the reapers and at the end are there to "help" shepard make his choice on how to stop them. Of course, like everything I say here, I don't expect anyone to believe me or insist they do. I just like throwing out these ideas and seeing what others think. At least those who respond intelligently and not just by saying "oh that's just stupid" or some variation.

And I mean no disrespect, but how exactly are they helping Shepard?  The star kid says he controls the reapers and they are his solution-he could have helped everyone if he'd just sent the reapers off long ago to play on a beach somewhere.  Understand this, the kid is not a guardian, is not protecting anyone, he has been sending his reaper children to turn sentient organic life into goo.  I'm pretty sure if some guy showed up at my doorstep with a bunch of guys that he totally controls with guns and told them to kill my family, and then said he was there to help, I would not believe him.  Why on Earth would Shepard and why would you?

The guy at the door brought the thugs to hurt me-he didn't have to, he could have kept them away.  The star kid controls (he says controls) the reapers and sends them to kill untold trillions of people that think, feel, love, hate, struggle, work, use, abuse, sacrifice, and live.  He isn't there to help anyone but himself and his "kids".

I will repeat myself.  He's lying.  The reapers harvest organics every 50k years as part of their reproduction cycle.  They need the organic goo to live and love and make babies.  Ever been lied to or lie to anyone for sex.  Hmmmmmm.....  The kid doesn't even want to buy anyone dinner first.

Ah give the SC a break. He's well over 50k yrs old multiplied I don't know how many times. He missed his pills the last cycle and now he's all confused. Someone needs to guide him back home for a sit down.

Btw, if the Protheans altered the Citadel signal and the catalyst lives in the citadel, and if the catalyst wants the Reapers to continue harvesting as, in the words of the Joker.......... "It's all.......part of the plan". Why didn't the kid turn the signal back on?

That kid reminds me of a scientist who puts an experiment into motion and then sits back and lets it run itself. When the SC says the old system wn't work so it's time for a new system, he's basically saying "I don't want you to be free. I just want you to run another maze for my experiments."

That SC would pull wings off butterflies and then claim he's an entermologist

[Malditor]

Redbelle wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Malditor wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I don't remember everything from every ME game because they've been spread out over several years, however I thought someone mentioned that "a being of light" or whatever created or controlled the reapers in one of the DLCs from a previous game. I could be completely wrong here, but just in case someone does know for sure.

The "beings of light" were mentioned in ME1 but they weren't explained in that big of detail aside they are believed to have acted as guardians to protect organic life from the Reapers. Also, the Catalyst is hinted to be of of them from what I read off the ME wiki.

This is correct as far as the beings of light, but the whole problem is in describing them as guardians.  They are then set up in a very minor missable way as being a force for good.  But the star kid is definitely not good.  The codex could of course be wrong, because it's what they are believed to be, so it could fit.  But, you don't set up a major plot point by using one extremely minor almost unknown codex entry-if it were to be this, then all along the 3 stories there should have been some major hints at it.  The problem is the beings of light were never supposed to be a part of the ending, so they were never referenced in any major way in the games.  It does seem however that that's what they did with the star kid-but that's just great.  Many people never played ME1 because they couldn't and so they never even had the chance to read that tiny codex entry.

It is true, they have been lacking in information, but bringing them back at then end sort of closes the circle as it were. They were there at the beginning protecting organics from the reapers and at the end are there to "help" shepard make his choice on how to stop them. Of course, like everything I say here, I don't expect anyone to believe me or insist they do. I just like throwing out these ideas and seeing what others think. At least those who respond intelligently and not just by saying "oh that's just stupid" or some variation.

I'm totally on board with The Catalyst being a Being of Light (it's as much as been confirmed by the very lovely Jessica Merizan) , I even like they bring these kind of things back up, like they did with the Leviathan of Dis. The problem is The Catalyst is such a major player he should not have been brought in in the last 5 minutes with the only hint at his/it's/wtfe's existence being an obscure planet codex entry that not everybody could or would have read and even less would reameber.

Do you think that maybe BW will expand the SC's role throughout the game in the EC? If the SC was actually that other kid who no one else but Shep see's that would imply that he's been watching events the whole time and paying special attention to Shep in particular........... Unless The SC's been seeing other characters behinds my back. And how would I know if I can't see him except when he's invading Shepards dreams with oily smoke stuff.

I think it's definitely a possibility that they will expand on what that being is. If they don't then they are missing a major aspect of what makes so many people angry at the ending. The reason I didn't dislike the ending is because I make connections like this on my own, which I think they were hoping everyone would do. Basically formulate whatever connections they personally felt fit.

[Redbelle]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The fact that the star kid and reapers created the Citadel and it is implied created the plans for the Crucible means they want them to mate thus creating the chance for true synthesis. The kid says he couldn't do it himself-he kept trying with the reapers to create synthesis but it was flawed. He's the insane god dreaming. He purposely makes both control and destroy abhorrent options and puts synthesis in the best light-it's the final point, the epitome of evolution. He wants what Sovereign said, synthesis.

But no advanced organic before humans was up to the challenge and their previous DNA was lacking. The kid needed a human to insert the necessary final DNA-the best DNA, the most diverse.

It's obvious to me, synthesis is what he wants, because he had the power to do the other 2 things. He already controlled the reapers, so needed no one else to control them. He could potentially destroy them, but since he controlled them he didn't need to unless they might rise up to destroy him somehow-unlikely because if he's a being of light, they'd have no way to harvest him. The kid kind of smiles if you choose synthesis and he does not disappear, because in choosing it you are giving him life.

That devious little...............