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[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

I actually liked the idea behind the ending, I enjoyed the tragedy of shepard dying to save everyone. My problem, was that the Catalyst's reason for everything was an un-satisfying reason to me. Synthetics and organics cannot co-exist so they get a bunch of synthetic-organics to exterminate advanced organic life (and make another synthetic-organic out of them). This was their solution? I was hoping for something either really mystical and vague, but in a satisfying way that would tie into the whole reapers saying it is something we cannot comprehend OR for a really good reason.

A better reason would have been that organics are so chaotic, that as they grow in power they are always destined to destroy themselves in war, in order to prevent this, they are guided along a specific path of technology so that the rate at which they aquire it can be observed and controlled. Once they reach a certain level, the reapers are dispatched to eliminate all advanced sentient life to prevent another cataclysm, the reapers absorbing the organics in order to grow and evolve themselves, or simply to live - perhaps they cannot sustain the organic part of themselves indefinitely without vast amounts of biological matter - like we use protein from meat to maintain and create our own muscle cells.

By sacrificing himself, shepard changes the DNA of every living thing to become Bio-synthetics gifting everyone with the calm logic of a synthetic, while preserving the uniqueness and creativity of an organic. Still capable of feeling emotions, yet being able to analyse and make unclouded judgements. This way, organics would find peace, realizing the futility of war and reaching a level of equality among each other.

This is my version of the same ending I experienced, tailored to preserve the same experience I think was intended, but making much more sense. They need not have made it about organics vs synthetics, as there is no real reason why they wouldn't get along any worse than any other organic race.

It would be nice in the extended cut to see the reactions of surviving crew members, as well as perhaps showing those that died to preserve the sense of loss. A weeping lover. Even some text afterwards to describe the consequences of shepards actions, like for instance in the alternative ending where the reapers go but everyone else stays normal I would like to know what happens with the Krogans, wether the galaxy stays at peace with each other etc.

I loved the game, and I didn't feel the ending was bad, I appreciated what it meant rather than what it did. it just didn't feel well thought out, which made it feel even more out of place in a game where everything is so well thought out with your actions and consequences. If the dialogue was subtly changed to be a little bit better then it would make all the difference.

[Ben_P_]

Well, thought I may as well leave my 2 cents, having just finished the game.

There are a number of critiques already out there that deal with the issues (I agree in particular with this one http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/) so I won't re-hash them.

Sorry guys, ending is a big fail for me. I wouldn't mind the lack of variety if it made sense, but it felt thrown together. See the Gamefront critique above, I've nothing much else to add to it.

Love the game, hate the ending.

[Jawsomebob]

My main problem with the ending is the fact that it does not at all even come close to what they promoted it to be

[Lord Raven Hauz]

The most i can say is that the ending ive seen is NOT a bioware mass effect ending. Choice has always had a huge effect on how our mass effect stories played out..... and in the last 10 minutes our choice's were nullified. The is possible the best epic stroy arc to come out in years. Everyday we see hollywood and other entertainmnet companies rehashing old shows or books and using the same tired endings. I believe the fans are mostly upset because u yoursleves set the bar so vary high. Mass effect's storey was like those great old books that completely drew u end. I Cared about my teammates.... i felt like everything was riding on me and i loved the challenge. The writers and makers of this tale owe it not to the fans but to yourselves to honor the work u put in and finish the story correctly. It is very rare that someone can invision and write a story as far reaching and still strike close to our hearts, as story tellers u have the responsiblity to finish strong. Stories are powerful things they live on far after those who wrote it have died. The legacy u leave is soley determed by how u finish the story. Look at the legend of King Arther, So long lived and so well remebered. Maybe a video game story wont gain the life of the legend of Arther, or the battle of thermoplye BUT it could. In 200 years someone could be telling this story again. Do u want him to tell a ending that is truly epic and closes the story well..... or do u want someone to say Bioware was forced to put out crap ending with a "addition" just because EA wanted to sell more DLC content and a possible 4th game. Please honor your story and yourselves be the stroytellers we have all come to love and respect.

[Andy the Black]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Landon7001 wrote...

any ending thats this easy to pick apart by this many ppl in a series based on meticulous detail, w extreme thought and care behind it, up until that point.....somethings wrong

those endings just are not right in any way...i never would have foreseen this **** from from these gifted ppl.....didnt they start working on me 3 before me 2 was even released according to them? didnt they go on about how, due to no further sequels, me 3 would be more branching and diverse in its story than any previous game....wow

Exactly-it's almost the fact that not only this many people can pick it apart for one thing, but for so many things.  It's also the fact that people have used logic to back up their statements and in order to refute what people say one must make up stuff. 

It was also something said by the devs that because ME3 was the end of the series and didn't have to be used to wedge pieces into any other sequel, the endings could be extremely diverse.

I'm assuming that the reason for only 3 endings is because they do plan on making Mass Effect 4.

Well if so they have decided to share very little with their fanbase.  That is actually an unsound marketing practice.  Fans provide free advertising.  Keeping fans out of the loop is the height of stupidity.  I will give one major example.  It's for a PS3 game (I don't want to debate the merits of the game or such). 

The game was a Japanese title, originally only available there and never intended for a worldwide market.  Demon's Souls.  People started buying and importing the Japanese version, mainly to North America.  The game was never advertised in North America at this point.  Sony that owned the game, didn't particularly like the worldwide use of the servers in Japan for whatever reason.  They decided based upon the fanantic fervor for the game, to release it as a North American title with NA servers.  It exploded (for a very small Japanese title) and people globally started getting the NA version.  The only ad I ever saw for it was one Game Informer ad, once.  The fans hyped it, the company and Sony never did.  It got repeatedly high reviews from fans and other reviewers, even though it was different from most games out there.  It won Best Game of the Year from Gamespot.  Nominated for best RPG for Spike TV's awards. 

And then it was released in Europe due to fan wishes and hype.  But basically it was a little game that sold very well with virtually no advertising.  Fans forced the release of the game globally when it was never planned.  And fan hype sold the game, not the company.

All game companies should take note of what happened with Demon's Souls.  It was simplistic, but not simple and fans made it a hit.  It also meant that the "sequel that wasn't really a sequel" Dark Souls sold very well in pre-orders, even was over sold.  I won't delve into the many mistakes made with Dark Souls however, but its success was a direct result of the fan created success of Demon's Souls.

Bioware had stated that ME3 was the end of the Shepard's story arc, but that there would be DLC.  They further stated that any new ME game would not be a sequel, but a prequel or even something akin to a huge sidequest (set concurrently with events in the present ME series).  However, these are the same people that said there'd be no ABC ending and it would be like no two endings would be alike for ME3.  FWIW.

Sorry, must of missed them saying there wouldn't be a follow up, even then I wouldn't of believed a Mass 4 was out of the question. I'm aware fan hype is important, but it's a little early for Bio to be getting fans hyped for any next installment, sequel or not. And why would they, given how many people have said they're done with Mass Effect at this piont, it would be realy dum to not at least try to appease some of the raging fans. Bio planing for a posable follow up is the only reason I can come up with for the story bottlenecking like it does.

[3DandBeyond]

The Gman707 wrote...

My main problem with the ening isnt the tragic element or the plot holes. I can deal with theses things. Having spent may years watching far eastern cinema i am used to tragic endings and those that watch action films are used to glossing over the odd convenience of plot. My problem is that the ending (and i deliberatly use the singular here) is that it removest the consiquence of choice. I have spent three games carefully assessing each option to choose the response i felt was best only to find that i may as well have stuck the game on narative difficulty and slapped the face buttons with my open palm, it would have achieved the same. Biowares prommised dlc update is one thing but it is not set to adress these issues from what i have read. Stickibg to your artistic vission is admirable,as a designer i wish i could do it all the time, and it works brilliantly for the fine artist. However those of us with end users must considder the needs of those users. Our investment in this universe should pay dividens. Its fine to be tragic but when i have spent 90+ hours being a shinning example of what humanity can be, i expect my sacrifice to count for sonething.

What bioware have delivered with their artistic vission is the destruction of their mythology. What has the potential to be an expandable universe ala star wars or halo has now become a self contained and closed story. What makes the universes of the afore mentioned ip so alluring is the possibilities in them. After their resoective tragedies (weather the death of the jedi or the loss of the master cheif

That is the way to kill a franchise.  Leaving players with a dystopic, defeatist kind of ending for no reason and with no real sense put the knife in it.  Telling people that they somehow just don't "get" the intellectual, artistic nature of it twists the knife.  Then telling people that in order to make them feel better and to placate them, you will clarify this intellectual artistic ending that should need no explanation is like gouging out player's hearts with a dull knife.

The sense of it matters, because ME did deal with huge issues.  It dealt with the ideas of what constitutes life and what responsibilities we think we have in creating it.  It dealt with what rights we think we have in creating it.  It also dealt with what we sometimes do for the sake of expediency, and it informs us that we sometimes react hastily once an immediate threat is over.  We sometimes use hindsight and further expediency to deal with a situation we created, and that can compound the problem.

It dealt with the idea of who has the better right to exist and who has the say over that.  It dealt with ideas of self-determination and even what love is or what love was acceptable.  It appealed to the player's brain and to the player's heart.  It talked about souls.  It talked about the death of art and culture and the death of the soul and the heart and evolution, striving.

It showed real art in how stories unfolded, in the characters that became real to us.  It didn't need some insane idea of what constitutes art and intellect for an ending, it had it all right there in the game already.  What it needed was an ending that did the rest of the story and all the other stories justice.  It needed something that lived up to the successful and even the failed ideals that were there in the game.  It needed to be big and bold and appealing to the heart and soul.  It needed to make the player feel somehow justified in their choices or determined to play again and achieve some more satisfactory ending.  Since there can be no other choices, no better choices and the ending does not care about the rest of the game, it fails in that it lacks any true victory, but it also lacks a true defeat.

It also fails at art, because on some basic level true art is understood by the viewer.  It moves him.  It may provoke, it may be unsettling or awesome, abhorrent or beautiful.  This ending is just blah, nothing, closed, demoralizing, and definitely not artisitic.  The ME games are everything the ending is not.  The games were amazing.  The ending is stupid.

[3DandBeyond]

Andy the Black wrote...

Sorry, must of missed them saying there wouldn't be a follow up, even then I wouldn't of believed a Mass 4 was out of the question. I'm aware fan hype is important, but it's a little early for Bio to be getting fans hyped for any next installment, sequel or not. And why would they, given how many people have said they're done with Mass Effect at this piont, it would be realy dum to not at least try to appease some of the raging fans. Bio planing for a posable follow up is the only reason I can come up with for the story bottlenecking like it does.

Well, what they specifically said was no sequel-no game set after the time in which the current series takes place.  I believe it was in the Final Hours app, but I will be honest and say I have read so much that they said before ME3 was released that I can't say with 100% certainty that was where I read it.  I just know they said it.

They said any new ME-type game would take place either before the current ME timeline or would take place during the current time.  Neither of those make sense to me if this ending stands because I know the dumb outcome.  It isn't worth working towards again.

Consider this, Bioware at this point is in denial.  They do not believe they did anything wrong.  Not to debate this point, but I do believe they have every right to do all that they've done.  I don't believe it's smart especially business-wise.  Companies work hard to gain new customers, but work hardest to keep the ones they have.  Current customers become repeat and loyal ones and they bring in far more customers than any advertising does.

I agree that it makes or made more sense for the ending to be pointing to DLC that extended the game or that the ending could lead to a new game.  But, they missed the boat on it at least for now.  They did indicate that ME3 might continue in DLC (again maybe in the Final Hours), which meant it was quite possible Shepard's story might continue on into the DLC and then once no more DLC was planned, it was all over-Shepard's story as well.

However, if they truly intended this then they kept it a too closely guarded secret.  They put out a non-ending ending that they wanted to lead into another story, if that was what they were doing.  If they had meant this was not the end then they needed to be more obvious and let people in on the joke.  Don't get me wrong-the problem with this idea is it would mean people had to pay to get an ending.

I stick by what I've said for awhile now.  In my opinion (which won't go anywhere) ME3 could have been split into 2 games or as someone else said just made longer (4 disks) and cost more.  I think it would have been great to have a huge game that dealt with the search for and the work to get war assets and allies and to get people to set aside their past issues as well as the building of the Crucible and maybe finding the reasons why the reapers keep coming back.  Explore possible ways to defeat them.  And then have a huge game that deals with the fight against the reapers-different battles, different strategies, real use of war assets, fighting in some areas with past teammates against the reapers and not as it is now, to get them to help fight for their survival.  It could also deal with some of what happens in the aftermath.

But that's a pipe dream-it's what I wish would have happened.  As it is the game was rushed, got shoved into being one that in hindsight is just fantastic, but also lacks a lot of depth.  The search for war assets is simplified scanning.  There's no real fighting with too many reapers-there's reaper tag.  Shepard spends all his/her time convincing people to work together to fight for their own existence.  And so on.  Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but the ending has made me examine in way more than I might ever have had the ending delivered.

[AlienShagger]

I thought the ME3 was a spectacular game, but the final scenes (not the ending, ME3 does not have an ending) proved me wrong. The final scenes transcend ME3 to something much much more than a game; a piece of art as good as or better than some of the best books I have read in its relevance to our society today.

The hallucination starting with the beam reveals how deeply committed the player is to the universe. Shepard projecting on the player, the human at the keyboard, his feverish attempt at beating the Reapers and saving the galaxy, clouding our judgment, having us fight our own perception of reality and agonize over unreal choices accepted as reality, even though to an objective observer it is obvious that we are in a much more important struggle: beating Shepard's and our own Indoctrination. We do not realize how important this battle is, because we do not see ourselves as Indoctrinated.

A masterpiece of writing and executed beautifully, ME3 is BioWare’s gift to the dedicated player. A glimpse of what facing misconceptions about our own direction in life may feel like, of reality behind our own good intentions serving someone else’s misguided goals without us noticing, making us feel powerless, angry and desperate at the same time. The misery pushes us to chose between a death by a happy dream and a fighting chance in the grim, but our own reality – if we dare confront the authority of a vicious child. Did I say child? I meant <insert authority figure here>. The point in the game is highly relevant in our everyday lives.

If we draw breath, we are free, but nothing else has changed; our Indoctrination lied to us. We may return to reality, where it is entirely possible that the Crucible's construction and delivery to Earth was ordered by the Reapers, making victory over Indoctrination the only one we could have hoped for in ME3. The war is possibly just beginning, now that the veil of Indoctrination is at least held at bay for a short while and we can reject some unknown entity's final solution.

I have personally never experienced this level of dedication and ability from any development team before. They should wear the player outrage as a badge of honor and not succumb to requests for an "ending".

Modifié par AlienShagger, 21 mai 2012 - 01:40 .

[Voodoo-j]

AlienShagger wrote...

I thought the ME3 was a spectacular game, but the final scenes (not the ending, ME3 does not have an ending) proved me wrong. The final scenes transcend ME3 to something much much more than a game; a piece of art as good as or better than some of the best books I have read in its relevance to our society today.

The hallucination starting with the beam reveals how deeply committed the player is to the universe. Shepard projecting on the player, the human at the keyboard, his feverish attempt at beating the Reapers and saving the galaxy, clouding our judgment, having us fight our own perception of reality and agonize over unreal choices accepted as reality, even though to an objective observer it is obvious that we are in a much more important struggle: beating Shepard's and our own Indoctrination. We do not realize how important this battle is, because we do not see ourselves as Indoctrinated.

If we draw breath, we are free, but nothing else has changed; our Indoctrination lied to us. We may return to reality, where it is entirely possible that the Crucible's construction and delivery to Earth was ordered by the Reapers, making victory over Indoctrination the only one we could have hoped for in ME3. The war is possibly just beginning, now that the veil of Indoctrination is at least held at bay for a short while and we can reject some
unknown entity's final solution.

A masterpiece of writing and executed beautifully, ME3 is BioWare’s gift to the dedicated player. A glimpse of what facing misconceptions about our own direction in life may feel like, of reality behind our own good intentions serving someone else’s misguided goals without us noticing, making us feel powerless, angry and desperate at the same time, giving us a choice between a placating dream of a happy ending and a fighting chance in the grim, but our own reality – if we dare confront the authority of a vicious child. Did I say child? I meant <insert authority figure here>. The game is highly relevant in our everyday lives.

I have personally never experienced this level of dedication and ability from any development team before. They should wear the player outrage as a badge of honor and not succumb to requests for an "ending".

So you like to pay money for this type of ending.
This is a game you played for enjoyment.
You like your entertainment to end this way?

Lets say this was a book, the third in it's series.
You've read other series from this author, and no matter the odd's the story always has an option to pull through.
Now your reading the new series and it ends completely differently than any series youv'e read from this author.
Due to the past you expect a the possibility of a certain type of ending, or multiple endings, and everything you read in the book, the choices, they tie into the end. 

But not this time, this time the author goes bipolar RIGHT AT THE END of the book, decides I hate all my readers I want to create something so distasteful I will upset the majority of them so I can go down in infamy.  My name will make headlines because the ending I am going to right is going to be so upsetting to those that have followed my work, their tears will be tasty !!!

Now if this was the authors first series, I'd be cool with it.  But the Author has created the unspoken bond with his readers, a certain expectation on how his series has different ways of ending.  And he just trashed that bond and said "oh snap" I just did that, the tears they will be tasty.

[Voodoo-j]

Oh, and don't forget, each series you can read multiple times with multiple endings, except the latest slap in the face.

It's like a choose your own adventure book, no matter what choices you choose you always have the same ending. Where as normally you can reread it many times over and have COMPLETELY different endings, but not this one, it's either a Red or Green or Blue page that says most all technology destroyed or all existence changed on a whim or um your god but your dead.

[AlienShagger]

Voodoo-j wrote...

So you like to pay money for this type of ending.
This is a game you played for enjoyment.
You like your entertainment to end this way?

Frankly, I thought I was paying for much less. Much less would have been ok with me. This is just... amazing.

Voodoo-j wrote...

But not this time, this time the author goes bipolar RIGHT AT THE END of the book, decides I hate all my readers I want to create something so distasteful I will upset the majority of them so I can go down in infamy.  My name will make headlines because the ending I am going to right is going to be so upsetting to those that have followed my work, their tears will be tasty !!!

I felt down after chosing the Renegade (Paragon!) option. I thought I had killed EDI and was confused why Joker seemed to be just dandy about it. I Thought I killed the entire species of Geth, that just proved the Catalyst was wrong about never being able to cooperate with organics. I thought I had killed me, because I am partly synthetic. And what was this bull**** with the last breath anyway? I felt like all my work, everything I have been doing in the entirety of Sheperds life, was wasted. I felt like I feel about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the way I feel about treatment of Palestinians, about everything I want to at least affect a tiny bit, but am unable somehow. I was angry at BioWare.

It slowly dawned on me that Shepard was alive. I was alive. The spoiled brat lied. We've both just been working for our lieing enemy all along. And we've both just won the first, the smallest and the most important battle of the entire war - freedom of thought. Making me see this couldn't be done without tearing down what I thought I had built. The actions were right, but my direction was wrong; I built it all for my enemy.

Voodoo-j wrote...

Now if this was the authors first series, I'd be cool with it.  But the Author has created the unspoken bond with his readers, a certain expectation on how his series has different ways of ending.  And he just trashed that bond and said "oh snap" I just did that, the tears they will be tasty.

I do not think I can ask for much more from the author of any piece of art than making me aware of what makes me feel powerless in my own life, except maybe not to try to provide a solution. I don't need another spoiled brat telling me what to do.

Modifié par AlienShagger, 21 mai 2012 - 02:10 .

[Voodoo-j]

AlienShagger wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

So you like to pay money for this type of ending.
This is a game you played for enjoyment.
You like your entertainment to end this way?

Frankly, I thought I was paying for much less. Much less would have been ok with me. This is just... amazing.

Voodoo-j wrote...

But not this time, this time the author goes bipolar RIGHT AT THE END of the book, decides I hate all my readers I want to create something so distasteful I will upset the majority of them so I can go down in infamy.  My name will make headlines because the ending I am going to right is going to be so upsetting to those that have followed my work, their tears will be tasty !!!

I felt down after chosing the Renegade (Paragon!) option. I thought I had killed EDI and was confused why Joker seemed to be just dandy about it. I Thought I killed the entire species of Geth, that just proved the Catalyst was wrong about never being able to cooperate with organics. I thought I had killed me, because I am partly synthetic. And what was this bull**** with the last breath anyway? I felt like all my work, everything I have been doing in the entirety of Sheperds life, was wasted. I felt like I feel about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the way I feel about treatment of Palestinians, about everything I want to at least affect a tiny bit, but am unable somehow. I was angry at BioWare.

It slowly dawned on me that Shepard was alive. I was alive. The spoiled brat lied. We've both just been working for our lieing enemy all along. And we've both just won the first, the smallest and the most important battle of the entire war - freedom of thought. Making me see this couldn't be done without tearing down what I thought I had built. The actions were right, but my direction was wrong; I built it all for my enemy.

Voodoo-j wrote...

Now if this was the authors first series, I'd be cool with it.  But the Author has created the unspoken bond with his readers, a certain expectation on how his series has different ways of ending.  And he just trashed that bond and said "oh snap" I just did that, the tears they will be tasty.

I do not think I can ask for much more from the author of any piece of art than making me aware of what makes me feel powerless in my own life, except maybe not to try to provide a solution. I don't need another spoiled brat telling me what to do.

You do realize your railroaded into one of these 3 choices, your told you have to choose 1 of these. you have no choice?

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 21 mai 2012 - 02:15 .

[AlienShagger]

Voodoo-j wrote...

You do realize your railroaded into one of these 3 choices, your told you have to choose 1 of these. you have no choice?

I am railroaded because I am Indoctrinated. I built the Crucible because the Reapers wanted me to. They needed it for something, I don't know what; right now it doesn't matter. BioWare told me: you, Mr. Player, are indoctrinated. Shepard is the avatar that will give you a sense of what we mean by this, but it is YOU who is indoctrinated.

BioWare could have been wrong with this gamble. If they were, I would be untouched by the ending. I could have been totally unable to relate to the feelings provoked by the non-sensical happy dream sequence. As it happens, I knew these feelings already - powerlessness. So yea, their gamble worked with me. I am indoctrinated and I see it now.

The good part is that they gave me power as well. There is something I can do right now. I can beat the indoctrination.

[Voodoo-j]

AlienShagger wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

You do realize your railroaded into one of these 3 choices, your told you have to choose 1 of these. you have no choice?

I am railroaded because I am Indoctrinated. I built the Crucible because the Reapers wanted me to. They needed it for something, I don't know what; right now it doesn't matter. BioWare told me: you, Mr. Player, are indoctrinated. Shepard is the avatar that will give you a sense of what we mean by this, but it is YOU who is indoctrinated.

BioWare could have been wrong with this gamble. If they were, I would be untouched by the ending. I could have been totally unable to relate to the feelings provoked by the non-sensical happy dream sequence. As it happens, I knew these feelings already - powerlessness. So yea, their gamble worked with me. I am indoctrinated and I see it now.

The good part is that they gave me power as well. There is something I can do right now. I can beat the indoctrination.

Ah you feel you are indoctrinated, you realize this is the last game in this series, Bioware has said they are done with Shepard. End Game

[3DandBeyond]

AlienShagger wrote...

...snip

I'm sorry but what?  You like buying a game that has a no-ending ending.  A game that featured clear cut stories and not cerebral mishmosh throughout that "ends" on a note of this reality is not reality but is part real and partly your brain playing games with you.  Uh, I'm sorry, but you could put that in a game that was something more akin to a Stephen Hawking dissertation, but not one that is more of a cross between Star Wars and Star Trek.  I was playing a game that had stories that resonated in their simplicity-those that spoke of moral issues in gut level terms.  I was not in a game that was a discussion of what causes the ID to fight the Superego.

For the record, if this is some indoctrination hallucination (something denied by the devs), then it totally destroys Shepard's character and legacy.  You talk about it being the possible rejection of indoctrination.  Where?  Where's the rejection?  Making a choice, any choice if this is indoctrination is giving in to it, not a rejection of it.  And in making any choice, if the choice ultimately leads to a real action is to still cause devastation on some level.

Control gives into the selfishness of TIM's indoctrinated idea of godhood.  Synthesis destroys what makes all life unique and is eloquently stated by Mordin.  Destroy causes genocide to be visited upon one segment of sentient life.  Even a Shepard that did not care about the geth at all is irrelevant here.  The destruction of any sentient life (or the extermination of any life form) is always a consideration.  Scientists have for years debated destroying the last remaining Small pox virus and I don't believe it's sentient.

Bioware never said you were indoctrinated.  In fact, they have stated somewhat emphatically that that was considered at one time, but rejected.  It's in the Final Hours app.

Furthermore, in wholly embracing IT you must admit Bioware released a game that was unfinished (you do say that), but they stated it was and had an ending.  In order to embrace IT you must create your own ending.  Ok, I expect more when I spend money.  I think there'd be a lot of angry Harry Potter fans if they had to guess what happened after Harry supposedly died.  And rightly so.  Stories that are great stories and that play out as this one did, deliver on a real ending.  The game was supposed to have many endings, but you've now just created 2 less than what we got.  Now, we all have one ending an indoctrination one.

Shepard has a hard enough time getting anyone to believe anything s/he says all along these 3 games.  No one believes the reapers are coming.  They all think it's just the geth.  They already believe Shepard is half crazy, so yeah indoctrination is perfect.  After that, no one will ever again think Shepard was acting bravely, heroicly.  Shepard was always being controlled.  If Shepard lives, then s/he won't be honored-actually indoctrination may well kill Shepard first-but if s/he lives, people will stay far away.

Calling someone a spoiled brat because they think this ending is insanely stupid is special.  People have used actual logic to point out just how illogical and ignorant it is.

Here's what one must accept in order to think the ending is just beautiful:

The created will always rebel against the creator and thus destroy the created and so the kid must send reapers to turn people (trillions of people) into goo and destroy them in order to keep the created from destroying them.  Wow.  I am so glad to be enlightened now.  All along, I thought there was a real possibility that people might find a way to get along.  And since parents create their kids, does that mean kids will always kill their parents?

Within the game this logic is disputed many times over-in fact the creator often is seeking to destroy the created.

I can't see any ending as satisfying where you as the player "wake up" after the game is over while Shepard is mostly dead or laying in rubble and you figure out you've been working for the enemy all along.  I'm sorry, but Shepard was said to be different from others, with a stronger mind.  Much better if within the game, Shepard gives a final rejection of Indoctrination attempts and then runs off to kill reapers and meets whatever fate awaits.

[Voodoo-j]

AlienShagger wrote...


I felt down after chosing the Renegade (Paragon!) option. I thought I had killed EDI and was confused why Joker seemed to be just dandy about it. I Thought I killed the entire species of Geth, that just proved the Catalyst was wrong about never being able to cooperate with organics. I thought I had killed me, because I am partly synthetic. And what was this bull**** with the last breath anyway? I felt like all my work, everything I have been doing in the entirety of Sheperds life, was wasted. I felt like I feel about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the way I feel about treatment of Palestinians, about everything I want to at least affect a tiny bit, but am unable somehow. I was angry at BioWare.

It slowly dawned on me that Shepard was alive. I was alive. The spoiled brat lied. We've both just been working for our lieing enemy all along. And we've both just won the first, the smallest and the most important battle of the entire war - freedom of thought. Making me see this couldn't be done without tearing down what I thought I had built. The actions were right, but my direction was wrong; I built it all for my enemy.

Sorry I missed this, I also want this to be where Bioware was headed with the ending, but still there is so much that is unanswered, so much that doesn't fit.  I have no doubts the catalyst is lying.  I completely see where your thinking is now.  This is the only salvageable ending that any DLC has hope of providing further explanation to.

Even if so I still would like to see other options to create the replay value.

[3DandBeyond]

As a player I wasn't indoctrinated. I was hoodwinked, misled, mishandled, and insulted.

I understand and can see why people adhere to IT-it's the only thing that can make sense of what garbage we now have. But Bioware said the ending was not indoctrination. You can choose to believe it if it makes you feel better. If it helps you fill in plot holes and makes illogical "logic" make sense. But, it ruins Shepard's character and means you did not get the game you paid for, one with an ending.

[Voodoo-j]

Yes, so many holes.. the amount of filler they need, like a brick house made of mortar. Why do they contradict the one out they have, as messy and obvious contradictory facts in of itself?

[AlienShagger]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Ah you feel you are indoctrinated, you realize this is the last game in this series, Bioware has said they are done with Shepard. End Game

Yes, I know. It is very logical. Unless you want wildly diverging stories in the start and having the fully Indoctrinated Shepard fight an epic battle against his choice in ME3, which I think could be interesting. A sort of a "it's never too late" thing.

[AlienShagger]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Yes, so many holes.. the amount of filler they need, like a brick house made of mortar. Why do they contradict the one out they have, as messy and obvious contradictory facts in of itself?

They said it wasn't Indoctrination? You got a link to that?

[Voodoo-j]

AlienShagger wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Yes, so many holes.. the amount of filler they need, like a brick house made of mortar. Why do they contradict the one out they have, as messy and obvious contradictory facts in of itself?

They said it wasn't Indoctrination? You got a link to that?

They have said it a few times, it was in the press conference they had as well.

I'm at work so a bit limited, but others might be able to point you to a source or two.

[AlienShagger]

I looked around and no-comment was the best I could find.
http://www.kotaku.co...ination-theory/

[Voodoo-j]

http://social.biowar...4/index/9564187

There is going to be MOVIE panel on July 22nd coming up too.

[VRtheTrooper]

K1LL STREAK wrote...

I actually liked the idea behind the ending, I enjoyed the tragedy of shepard dying to save everyone. My problem, was that the Catalyst's reason for everything was an un-satisfying reason to me. Synthetics and organics cannot co-exist so they get a bunch of synthetic-organics to exterminate advanced organic life (and make another synthetic-organic out of them). This was their solution? I was hoping for something either really mystical and vague, but in a satisfying way that would tie into the whole reapers saying it is something we cannot comprehend OR for a really good reason.

A better reason would have been that organics are so chaotic, that as they grow in power they are always destined to destroy themselves in war, in order to prevent this, they are guided along a specific path of technology so that the rate at which they aquire it can be observed and controlled. Once they reach a certain level, the reapers are dispatched to eliminate all advanced sentient life to prevent another cataclysm, the reapers absorbing the organics in order to grow and evolve themselves, or simply to live - perhaps they cannot sustain the organic part of themselves indefinitely without vast amounts of biological matter - like we use protein from meat to maintain and create our own muscle cells.

By sacrificing himself, shepard changes the DNA of every living thing to become Bio-synthetics gifting everyone with the calm logic of a synthetic, while preserving the uniqueness and creativity of an organic. Still capable of feeling emotions, yet being able to analyse and make unclouded judgements. This way, organics would find peace, realizing the futility of war and reaching a level of equality among each other.

This is my version of the same ending I experienced, tailored to preserve the same experience I think was intended, but making much more sense. They need not have made it about organics vs synthetics, as there is no real reason why they wouldn't get along any worse than any other organic race.

It would be nice in the extended cut to see the reactions of surviving crew members, as well as perhaps showing those that died to preserve the sense of loss. A weeping lover. Even some text afterwards to describe the consequences of shepards actions, like for instance in the alternative ending where the reapers go but everyone else stays normal I would like to know what happens with the Krogans, wether the galaxy stays at peace with each other etc.

I loved the game, and I didn't feel the ending was bad, I appreciated what it meant rather than what it did. it just didn't feel well thought out, which made it feel even more out of place in a game where everything is so well thought out with your actions and consequences. If the dialogue was subtly changed to be a little bit better then it would make all the difference.

i also agree with the synthesis portion. its a rational decision for the good of ALL life, not just organic. (many people that believe IT will disagree) 

[Voodoo-j]

I agree there may be some rational thought there, but not a snap decision as it is in the game. Not a decision 1 person makes for many races.