Ce sujet est ferméBlueStorm83 wrote...
Ironically, Shepard was Shepherded into three near-identical cluster****s.
This is exactly what happens at the end. Oooh, look pretty colors.
On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 15 2012 02:55
#21026
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 12:45
3DandBeyond
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This is exactly what happens at the end. Oooh, look pretty colors.
Retour en haut
#21027
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 01:57
Voodoo-j
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3DandBeyond wrote...
AlienShagger wrote...
Voodoo-j wrote...
From what your saying... Ending A and B are a lie and your only left with ending C. So, where are the multiple endings?
You can like what they did, that's fine. But it's not what they said they were going to do, and it does not follow through with the way the series was intended, by their own words. The ending is not the one I paid for, or spent countless hours to attain.
Making us feel that freedom from indoctrination is really what it's all about can't be done if they maintain the grip on what happens next (after we take that breath). It's up to us for the first time and that is the most important thing. This is why their DLC isn't really necessary for me personally. It is not a satisfying ending, because breaking free of indoctrination is not an ending, but a beginning. After that every day should be a new beginning.
The pressure people put on BioWare I think is marvelous and is entirely justified, simply by the virtue of them being a corporation. You are entirely right that they are trying to milk whatever they can for as much as they can; you automatically get my vote for free DLC there. I want you to see what I saw in this little marvel for your personal
mental health, then go right back to bashing BioWare.
I guess I see this as impossible. If indoctrination is a beginning than it is like saying falling off a cliff while asleep is a beginning. Indoctrination is for one thing said to destroy the mind and the time it takes depends on the depth of the indoctrination. Since Shepard is said to be vastly different from others with an extremely powerful mind, any indoctrination would be overly powerful and degenerative. Not only would it potentially ruin Shepard's reputation but most likely Shepard's mind as well. And when Shepard "wakes up" the rocks at the bottom of the cliff are waiting.
Moreover, I don't care to be thought of as indoctrinated, nor was I indoctrinated. If I was then this ending would have made sense and I would have thought it as the most awesomest ever. It insulted my intelligence.
I can't watch it anymore.. does it show Shepard in the rocks after Joker and crew are on the planet, or before.
Basically anything before it shows Shepard can (possibly) be considered non factual. It's what it show after that must be true without a doubt.
If any of that actually happened, there are still so many plot holes.
#21028
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 01:59
Voodoo-j
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3DandBeyond wrote...
BlueStorm83 wrote...
Ironically, Shepard was Shepherded into three near-identical cluster****s.
This is exactly what happens at the end. Oooh, look pretty colors.
Yeah no matter the meaning behind it.. this was awful.
Instead they grabbed the paint tool in their graphics suite and changed some colors.
They created 1 ending with 3 choices, all the same.
#21029
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:05
LiarasShield
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LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
Thanatos144 wrote...
Gee you all think Bioware should put in a option for Shepard to commit selfish suicide of the galaxy?
He or She already does that by submitting to the being who has either created or controls the reapers who have been destroying advanced organic civilizations for thousands or millons of years so once shepard meets the main villian or the creater of the reapers he or she doesn't challange his twisted logic for the reason he causes mass genocide and only gives in to the creator of the reapers and only sees the creator of the reapers choices as shepards only options when this is the being who has used the reapers to destroy most of the galaxy zillions of times over
And in 2 of the 3 endings the reapers live and in all the endings shepards forces are trapt around our dying solar system so in all the endings either the reapers live or they cleanse most of the galaxy of advanced organic life
A sacrifice and a meaningful one only happens if you end up saving the people that you sacrifice your life for but because the main villian the catalyst forces shepard into what options he or she is promitted and gives up to the main villian and have the main villian decide what you should do it is no longer a victory or sacrifice since none of these choices was under shepards own will power and the creator of the reapers forced shepard into its decisions it would like to see appear
We don't win we didn't beat the reapers nor did we really save anybody our fleets are stranded in our damaged solar system and by the time they run out of supplies unless they can rebuild the relays or find a planet within our solar system that wasn't damaged then they do not have a shot
And any meaningful sacrifice was shot the moment shepard gave in to the main villian and had him decide what he or she does
We didn't beat the reapers they beated us
I can't accept a you lose ending no matter what it is the same garbage That ended up being FF 13-2
Well the requiem of the goddess Dlc was the final dlc that was released for 13-2 it was about lightnings final battle with caius after lightning returns to the future once serah and noel supposedly temporarily killed him only for serah to die and for lightning to fight caius and how she became crystal and if you get the secret fragment she ends up waking later on in the future in a dead world all by herself I don't know if any dlc can redeem this since snows and lightnings dlc were ment to be the last ones
Still thinking the person and or people who thought complete failure was ok were friends with the square enix guys or they're in both companies
Well hopefully if their is a 13-3 hopefully lightning will find a way to restore the timelines and vanqish the chaos of valhalla and perhaps restore her sister or perhaps meet her again in another time but it seems like lightning is the only survivor left after the chaos of valhalla hopefully lightning will be able to restore the earth or maybe become the new Goddess Of Etro
Still can't think why a suicide with no real victory is appealing to some of you it just makes me question the very sanity of people today U-u
WOW HOLGER AND SHAGGER SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS REALLY ARE THE BLIND FANBOYS THAT OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED I DID NOT GATHER THEE ENTIRE GALAXY TO DEFEAT THE REAPERS ONLY TO BOW OR SUBMIT TO THEIR CREATOR AND THEN BE FORCED INTO WHAT THE CREATOR OF THE REAPERS BELIEVES IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SHEPARD INSTEAD OF SHEPARD MAKING THAT OWN DECISION UNDER HIS OR HER OWN WILL POWER HE OR SHE DOES EXACTLY WHAT THE CREATOR OF THE REAPERS WANTED WITHOUT QUESTIONING OR FIGHTING BACK THE CATALYST IS THE ONE WHO MADE THE REAPERS WHO HAVED BEEN DESTROYING ALL ADVANCED ORGANICS FOR AEONS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE WAS SAVING THEM BUT IF YOU're TRYING TO SAVE SOMEONE YOU DON't JUST DESTROY THEM OR NOT GIVE THEM ADVANCED WARNING THE CATALYST COULD've USED THE REAPERS TO DESTROY THE ADVANCED SYNTHETICS
TO SAVE ORGANIC
LIFE AS HE TRIES TO SO CALL PROTECT THEM BUT NO DOES HE DO THAT NO HE USES THE REAPERS TO CONTROL THE GETH
TO DESTROY US AND HE SAID THE REAPERS WERE THEIR TO SUPPOSEDLY SAVE ORGANICS FROM
SYNTHETICS BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE
A Noble sacrifice is when the hero who sacrifices him or herself ultimately saves the people that he or she sacrifices themselves for but since all the relays are destroyed or knocked out unless their is a planet in sol system that wasn't damaged by the reapers or if they can rebuild the relays they will eventually starve to death or run out of rescources it is no longer a noble sacrifice but a suicide to bow to them enemy you swore to defeat to give into the enemy and have him make your choices for you
HE CREATED THE DAMN REAPERS WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR ALL THREE GAMES THE VERY SAME REAPERS THAT ARE DESTROYING OUR GALAXY AND EARTH AND IN TWO OF THE THREE ENDINGS THE REAPERS LIVE AND IN ALL ENDINGS OUR FORCES ARE TRAPT IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM SO THE REAPERS EITHER LIVE OR SUCCEDE IN CLEANSING THE GALAXY OF ORGANIC LIFE
I'm Done trying to be respectful or reason with some of you because you don't have great attention span or you refuse to see what is in your damn face that is shown to you
I'd wish I could have that happy denial that you all have or accept a ending where we surrender to the enemy who has been destroying us you msut be smoking some strong stuff to think that is alright
Modifié par LiarasShield, 22 mai 2012 - 02:08 .
#21030
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:07
BlueStorm83
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--- AlienShagger, you bring up good points, and I understand what you're going for, but there are two holes in your argument. While these holes shouldn't stop you from enjoying your ending, they make it impossible for me and many others to enjoy it in the same way.
First, your ending hypothesis hinges on the Indoctrination Theory, and this wasn't implied in the game. I'm not a nitwit, and I didn't get the feel that Shepard may have been undergoing a gradual indoctrination until the internet filled me in on it. And after BioWare saying that Mass Effect 3 is a complete game out of the box, I shouldn't have to go to the internet to be let in on the real meaning.
Second, and this is much the same as the first, you say that it is left open beyond the "Shepard Waking Up" scene, for the player to form whatever he opines in his own mind as to what should happen next. The problem with this is that I can do this WITHOUT paying seventy dollars for a video game. A Video Game is information, it is ideas, it is freedom to choose and do, this is true. But at the same time, it exists in a concrete form, be it two DVDs and a small download, a Blu-Ray disc and a small download, or a rather large download for the Digital Deluxe customers. It should contain a beginning, a middle, and an end within its own existence.
--- Please excuse me, I once again said that you had an ending opinion. You keep saying that it's not an ending, it's a collection of final scenes. You're right in this, the game's "Ending" is skipped over and instead we get an epilogue starring Buzz Alrdin and a child. We are listening. We being me, not BioWare.
But anyway, yes, I can't see the same hope in the way that the game concluded, because its conclusion was not an ending. Many stories seem to be coming to open conclusions these days, trying to be artistic, but ending up unsatisfying to the masses. And, art aside, BioWare and EA are businesses, and you've got to give the people (yeah, yeah,) give the people what they want. This is generating a ton of buzz on the internet, but at least half of it is negative, and that can turn people off of a company.
Lost ended artistically, but vaguely without answering any questions. I'd bought every season's boxed set, but cancelled my pre-order for the final, because I felt like I was left to determine my own answers, and that's not what I want when I take part in someone else's story.
Battlestar Galactica ended artistically and vaguely, to a lesser degree than lost, and suffered the same fate. Recently my uncle wanted to start watching it, but asked "Did they ever finish the show, or did it get cancelled?" I said, "Yeah, they finished it, but they finished it badly, don't waste your time." Yeah, it's my opinion, but my opinion is all I can act on.
None of that was as open and vague as the ME3 ending can be construed as. And yes, you have to construe it, as the work presented as a "whole" (as BioWare has insisted that it is) does not give the sense of hope or engery. All that has to happen entirely within the player, without any real prompting through our digital self, Shepard. For the player to feel hope in Mass Effect 3, our Sheperd has to feel hope. For the Player to be energized, Shepard must feel energized (or at the very least die in an energetic manner for us to piggyback into reality on.) Instead, my last interactions with Shepard felt like having a conversation with a stranger who looked much like, and thought he was, my brother.
First, your ending hypothesis hinges on the Indoctrination Theory, and this wasn't implied in the game. I'm not a nitwit, and I didn't get the feel that Shepard may have been undergoing a gradual indoctrination until the internet filled me in on it. And after BioWare saying that Mass Effect 3 is a complete game out of the box, I shouldn't have to go to the internet to be let in on the real meaning.
Second, and this is much the same as the first, you say that it is left open beyond the "Shepard Waking Up" scene, for the player to form whatever he opines in his own mind as to what should happen next. The problem with this is that I can do this WITHOUT paying seventy dollars for a video game. A Video Game is information, it is ideas, it is freedom to choose and do, this is true. But at the same time, it exists in a concrete form, be it two DVDs and a small download, a Blu-Ray disc and a small download, or a rather large download for the Digital Deluxe customers. It should contain a beginning, a middle, and an end within its own existence.
--- Please excuse me, I once again said that you had an ending opinion. You keep saying that it's not an ending, it's a collection of final scenes. You're right in this, the game's "Ending" is skipped over and instead we get an epilogue starring Buzz Alrdin and a child. We are listening. We being me, not BioWare.
But anyway, yes, I can't see the same hope in the way that the game concluded, because its conclusion was not an ending. Many stories seem to be coming to open conclusions these days, trying to be artistic, but ending up unsatisfying to the masses. And, art aside, BioWare and EA are businesses, and you've got to give the people (yeah, yeah,) give the people what they want. This is generating a ton of buzz on the internet, but at least half of it is negative, and that can turn people off of a company.
Lost ended artistically, but vaguely without answering any questions. I'd bought every season's boxed set, but cancelled my pre-order for the final, because I felt like I was left to determine my own answers, and that's not what I want when I take part in someone else's story.
Battlestar Galactica ended artistically and vaguely, to a lesser degree than lost, and suffered the same fate. Recently my uncle wanted to start watching it, but asked "Did they ever finish the show, or did it get cancelled?" I said, "Yeah, they finished it, but they finished it badly, don't waste your time." Yeah, it's my opinion, but my opinion is all I can act on.
None of that was as open and vague as the ME3 ending can be construed as. And yes, you have to construe it, as the work presented as a "whole" (as BioWare has insisted that it is) does not give the sense of hope or engery. All that has to happen entirely within the player, without any real prompting through our digital self, Shepard. For the player to feel hope in Mass Effect 3, our Sheperd has to feel hope. For the Player to be energized, Shepard must feel energized (or at the very least die in an energetic manner for us to piggyback into reality on.) Instead, my last interactions with Shepard felt like having a conversation with a stranger who looked much like, and thought he was, my brother.
#21031
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:12
LiarasShield
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LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
Thanatos144 wrote...
Gee you all think Bioware should put in a option for Shepard to commit selfish suicide of the galaxy?
He or She already does that by submitting to the being who has either created or controls the reapers who have been destroying advanced organic civilizations for thousands or millons of years so once shepard meets the main villian or the creater of the reapers he or she doesn't challange his twisted logic for the reason he causes mass genocide and only gives in to the creator of the reapers and only sees the creator of the reapers choices as shepards only options when this is the being who has used the reapers to destroy most of the galaxy zillions of times over
And in 2 of the 3 endings the reapers live and in all the endings shepards forces are trapt around our dying solar system so in all the endings either the reapers live or they cleanse most of the galaxy of advanced organic life
A sacrifice and a meaningful one only happens if you end up saving the people that you sacrifice your life for but because the main villian the catalyst forces shepard into what options he or she is promitted and gives up to the main villian and have the main villian decide what you should do it is no longer a victory or sacrifice since none of these choices was under shepards own will power and the creator of the reapers forced shepard into its decisions it would like to see appear
We don't win we didn't beat the reapers nor did we really save anybody our fleets are stranded in our damaged solar system and by the time they run out of supplies unless they can rebuild the relays or find a planet within our solar system that wasn't damaged then they do not have a shot
And any meaningful sacrifice was shot the moment shepard gave in to the main villian and had him decide what he or she does
We didn't beat the reapers they beated us
I can't accept a you lose ending no matter what it is the same garbage That ended up being FF 13-2
Well the requiem of the goddess Dlc was the final dlc that was released for 13-2 it was about lightnings final battle with caius after lightning returns to the future once serah and noel supposedly temporarily killed him only for serah to die and for lightning to fight caius and how she became crystal and if you get the secret fragment she ends up waking later on in the future in a dead world all by herself I don't know if any dlc can redeem this since snows and lightnings dlc were ment to be the last ones
Still thinking the person and or people who thought complete failure was ok were friends with the square enix guys or they're in both companies
Well hopefully if their is a 13-3 hopefully lightning will find a way to restore the timelines and vanqish the chaos of valhalla and perhaps restore her sister or perhaps meet her again in another time but it seems like lightning is the only survivor left after the chaos of valhalla hopefully lightning will be able to restore the earth or maybe become the new Goddess Of Etro
Still can't think why a suicide with no real victory is appealing to some of you it just makes me question the very sanity of people today U-u
WOW HOLGER AND SHAGGER SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS REALLY ARE THE BLIND FANBOYS THAT OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED I DID NOT GATHER THEE ENTIRE GALAXY TO DEFEAT THE REAPERS ONLY TO BOW OR SUBMIT TO THEIR CREATOR AND THEN BE FORCED INTO WHAT THE CREATOR OF THE REAPERS BELIEVES IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SHEPARD INSTEAD OF SHEPARD MAKING THAT OWN DECISION UNDER HIS OR HER OWN WILL POWER HE OR SHE DOES EXACTLY WHAT THE CREATOR OF THE REAPERS WANTED WITHOUT QUESTIONING OR FIGHTING BACK THE CATALYST IS THE ONE WHO MADE THE REAPERS WHO HAVED BEEN DESTROYING ALL ADVANCED ORGANICS FOR AEONS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE WAS SAVING THEM BUT IF YOU're TRYING TO SAVE SOMEONE YOU DON't JUST DESTROY THEM OR NOT GIVE THEM ADVANCED WARNING THE CATALYST COULD've USED THE REAPERS TO DESTROY THE ADVANCED SYNTHETICS
TO SAVE ORGANIC
LIFE AS HE TRIES TO SO CALL PROTECT THEM BUT NO DOES HE DO THAT NO HE USES THE REAPERS TO CONTROL THE GETH
TO DESTROY US AND HE SAID THE REAPERS WERE THEIR TO SUPPOSEDLY SAVE ORGANICS FROM
SYNTHETICS BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE
A Noble sacrifice is when the hero who sacrifices him or herself ultimately saves the people that he or she sacrifices themselves for but since all the relays are destroyed or knocked out unless their is a planet in sol system that wasn't damaged by the reapers or if they can rebuild the relays they will eventually starve to death or run out of rescources it is no longer a noble sacrifice but a suicide to bow to them enemy you swore to defeat to give into the enemy and have him make your choices for you
HE CREATED THE DAMN REAPERS WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR ALL THREE GAMES THE VERY SAME REAPERS THAT ARE DESTROYING OUR GALAXY AND EARTH AND IN TWO OF THE THREE ENDINGS THE REAPERS LIVE AND IN ALL ENDINGS OUR FORCES ARE TRAPT IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM SO THE REAPERS EITHER LIVE OR SUCCEDE IN CLEANSING THE GALAXY OF ORGANIC LIFE
I'm Done trying to be respectful or reason with some of you because you don't have great attention span or you refuse to see what is in your damn face that is shown to you
I'd wish I could have that happy denial that you all have or accept a ending where we surrender to the enemy who has been destroying us you mustt be smoking some strong stuff to think that is alright
I didn't bring the galaxy together only for my enemy to tell me what I have to do or to give into what they want me to do And yes it is better to die or go extinct to bow to someone or someones slave
#21032
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:12
Benchpress610
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3DandBeyond wrote...
BlueStorm83 wrote...
Ironically, Shepard was Shepherded into three near-identical cluster****s.
This is exactly what happens at the end. Oooh, look pretty colors.
When you put it on those terms, it does really feels insulting.
There they were realizing that all three cut scenes were identical and the only way they though to make them different were to give them different colors. Did they think we are all a bunch of nincompoops or five-year olds? That we wouldn’t catch their incompetence and the hack-job they did in the ending because explosions were glowing in different colors?... what a way to treat your fan base….
#21033
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:13
3DandBeyond
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Voodoo-j wrote...
I can't watch it anymore.. does it show Shepard in the rocks after Joker and crew are on the planet, or before.
Basically anything before it shows Shepard can (possibly) be considered non factual. It's what it show after that must be true without a doubt.
If any of that actually happened, there are still so many plot holes.
Shepard takes the breath heard round the world after Joker and friends trot out onto the planet where quite possibly Joker and Garrus must figure out some way to re-populate at least some part of the galaxy.
#21034
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:13
LiarasShield
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LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
Thanatos144 wrote...
Gee you all think Bioware should put in a option for Shepard to commit selfish suicide of the galaxy?
He or She already does that by submitting to the being who has either created or controls the reapers who have been destroying advanced organic civilizations for thousands or millons of years so once shepard meets the main villian or the creater of the reapers he or she doesn't challange his twisted logic for the reason he causes mass genocide and only gives in to the creator of the reapers and only sees the creator of the reapers choices as shepards only options when this is the being who has used the reapers to destroy most of the galaxy zillions of times over
And in 2 of the 3 endings the reapers live and in all the endings shepards forces are trapt around our dying solar system so in all the endings either the reapers live or they cleanse most of the galaxy of advanced organic life
A sacrifice and a meaningful one only happens if you end up saving the people that you sacrifice your life for but because the main villian the catalyst forces shepard into what options he or she is promitted and gives up to the main villian and have the main villian decide what you should do it is no longer a victory or sacrifice since none of these choices was under shepards own will power and the creator of the reapers forced shepard into its decisions it would like to see appear
We don't win we didn't beat the reapers nor did we really save anybody our fleets are stranded in our damaged solar system and by the time they run out of supplies unless they can rebuild the relays or find a planet within our solar system that wasn't damaged then they do not have a shot
And any meaningful sacrifice was shot the moment shepard gave in to the main villian and had him decide what he or she does
We didn't beat the reapers they beated us
I can't accept a you lose ending no matter what it is the same garbage That ended up being FF 13-2
Well the requiem of the goddess Dlc was the final dlc that was released for 13-2 it was about lightnings final battle with caius after lightning returns to the future once serah and noel supposedly temporarily killed him only for serah to die and for lightning to fight caius and how she became crystal and if you get the secret fragment she ends up waking later on in the future in a dead world all by herself I don't know if any dlc can redeem this since snows and lightnings dlc were ment to be the last ones
Still thinking the person and or people who thought complete failure was ok were friends with the square enix guys or they're in both companies
Well hopefully if their is a 13-3 hopefully lightning will find a way to restore the timelines and vanqish the chaos of valhalla and perhaps restore her sister or perhaps meet her again in another time but it seems like lightning is the only survivor left after the chaos of valhalla hopefully lightning will be able to restore the earth or maybe become the new Goddess Of Etro
Still can't think why a suicide with no real victory is appealing to some of you it just makes me question the very sanity of people today U-u
WOW HOLGER AND SHAGGER SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS REALLY ARE THE BLIND FANBOYS THAT OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED I DID NOT GATHER THEE ENTIRE GALAXY TO DEFEAT THE REAPERS ONLY TO BOW OR SUBMIT TO THEIR CREATOR AND THEN BE FORCED INTO WHAT THE CREATOR OF THE REAPERS BELIEVES IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SHEPARD INSTEAD OF SHEPARD MAKING THAT OWN DECISION UNDER HIS OR HER OWN
WILL POWER HE OR SHE DOES EXACTLY WHAT THE CREATOR OF THE REAPERS WANTED
WITHOUT QUESTIONING OR FIGHTING BACK THE CATALYST IS THE ONE WHO MADE THE REAPERS
WHO HAVED BEEN DESTROYING ALL ADVANCED ORGANICS FOR AEONS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE WAS SAVING THEM BUT IF YOU're TRYING TO SAVE SOMEONE YOU DON't JUST DESTROY THEM OR NOT GIVE THEM ADVANCED WARNING THE CATALYST COULD've USED THE REAPERS TO DESTROY THE ADVANCED SYNTHETICS
TO SAVE ORGANIC
LIFE AS HE TRIES TO SO CALL PROTECT THEM BUT NO DOES HE DO THAT NO HE USES THE REAPERS TO CONTROL
THE GETH
TO DESTROY US AND HE SAID THE REAPERS WERE THEIR TO SUPPOSEDLY SAVE ORGANICS FROM
SYNTHETICS BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE
A Noble sacrifice is when the hero who sacrifices him or herself ultimately saves the people that he or she sacrifices themselves for but since all the relays are destroyed or knocked out unless their is a planet in sol system that wasn't damaged by the reapers or if they can rebuild the relays they will eventually starve to death or run out of rescources it is no longer a noble sacrifice but a suicide to bow to them enemy you swore to defeat to give into the enemy and have him make your choices for you
HE CREATED THE DAMN REAPERS WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR ALL THREE GAMES THE VERY SAME REAPERS THAT ARE DESTROYING OUR GALAXY AND EARTH AND IN TWO OF THE THREE ENDINGS THE REAPERS LIVE AND IN ALL ENDINGS OUR FORCES ARE TRAPT IN OUR
SOLAR SYSTEM SO THE REAPERS EITHER LIVE OR SUCCEDE IN CLEANSING THE GALAXY OF ORGANIC LIFE
I'm Done trying to be respectful or reason with some of you because you don't have great attention span or you refuse to see what is in your damn face that is shown to you
I'd wish I could have that happy denial that you all have or accept a ending where we surrender to the enemy who has been destroying us you mustt be smoking some strong stuff to think that is alright
I didn't bring the galaxy together only for my enemy to tell me what I have to do or to give into what they want me to do And yes it is better to die or go extinct then to bow to someone or be someones slave
Modifié par LiarasShield, 22 mai 2012 - 02:16 .
#21035
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:15
sdinc009
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AlienShagger wrote...
3DandBeyond wrote...
AlienShagger wrote...
Landon7001 wrote...
I put the third CD back in the case and put it up on the shelf with the first two. And as I did that, all of this was on my mind. I deleted the three games from my gaming system along with Origin’s stuff and I won’t game for a while. I’m just not there. Bioware could be right that eventually it may blow over for them. But we won’t forget…
You shouldn't forget. BioWare gave you more than an ending; they gave you the most important choice you can make and, intentionally or not, in some crazy twist of luck or artistic skill, managed to ask you to make the same choice in your own life.
This is far more than any story I experienced did for me, except perhaps writings of Plato more than a decade ago. Anything less than this would have been infinitely less, no matter how otherwise soothing (or perhaps because of it).
Pardon me, but what??? So, he made the decision to walk away from the game and take his money with him. That is exactly what a company that wants to sell you stuff is after.
Honestly, this is a thinking person's game, but to imply that the ending is on a par with Plato is well I can't say the word. Give me a break. It is childish nonsense that has been picked apart by better minds than mine and they have done so eloquently. It is like a psychotic break and it is in no way encouraging-it does not encourage deep thought, does not encourage or inspire the soul. It's like trying to imply that within a rubber band is the meaning of all life and telling people to go ahead and discuss it. I can do that with anything, but I sure as hell am not going to pay a lot of money for the experience.
Anything less than what we got would have been more than what we have. A great many people would have been satisfied (I wouldn't) if they had stopped the game when Anderson died.
The ending asked Landon7001 the most important decision of his life. Oh, for Pete's sake I've heard everything now. Well, if it did, he gave them the answer. No more money for Bioware games. Good idea for a business.
I think BioWare, accidentally or not, created a masterpiece with the entire series and especially the final scenes of ME3 and I would like to share that. That is hard to do when people think you don't have two brain cells to rub against each other, so I will try to explain 20 years of thinking about our media in two paragraphs.
The game, as everything else in the entertainment industry, is permiated by our culture, religion, philosophy and (imaginary) life lessons; basically your standard comedy/tragedy from back in the day when Plato walked the southern regions of this continent. We identify with the imaginary characters and find some of them in us.
I said that it did for me what Plato did over a decade ago and I've read most of him; if anything that's a comment on me (and perhaps my generation), not Plato. I think that it is entirely possible that the points made through ME-type constructs are much more valuable for the today's public, simply because we are who we are. I think it is fair to say that people today get a part of their social education from reality shows, sitcoms, magazines and games like ME and I think anyone who approaches these as mere entertainment is massively mistaken and possibly in danger of indoctrination.
Which is why I am excited about the final scenes in ME3. On many levels. What they did may have been accidental, but there it is. Not even BioWare going out and telling us that that's not what they meant by it is going to change what is there.
The series got a segment of the world-wide public to relate to their content in such a deep and personal way, that a disturbing ending got massive response. The nature of the disturbance is also notable: we shifted focus from external to internal struggle and not in some simlpistic way, but with a profound human touch. Shepard is fighting himself, unaware because he so wants to make things right in the real world. There's very little you can do in a coma, but make happy pictures for yourself.
Now here's why I like the scenes so much: The indoctrination is as real for Shepard as it is for us. I relate to his feeling of powerlessness and am daily tempted and often fall into the trap of complacency, when faced with my percieved lack of ability to change this world. Just like Shepard, this is not because I lack the will, but because I am invested in a system that subverts my intent and uses my work against me. Wanting to get things done blinds Shepard and he does what the Reapers want him to do. Notably, the Crucible (some part or entirety of my professional work) is something we do not understand the effect of, created out of percieved necessity and may be exactly what the Reapers (<insert real-life authority figure here>) wanted.
If Shepard rejects the lies served to him, he draws another breath. Everything is as it was seconds before you got hit on Earth. I do not know if this is the intent from BioWare writers, but it makes sense. It is also a good point that Shepard drew breath once, or for the first time - I don't think I have ever done so myself. Freedom from investment in other people's plans may have to come in a rubble of at least some of our work. I also do not think that it is a defeatist position - on the contrary. Being in control of your actions, knowing who and what you are, what you are doing and why must be so liberating, that it is a far greater victory than any one tiny challenge, like the one Reapers pose.
It seems to me that rejection of indoctrination by us westerners is something each of us should to do on a daily basis and that would make for a tedious conclusion to a game. The best they could do is show us that we're not there yet by a long shot. I am not there yet, but I want to be.
If I am reading too much into this, it really doesn't matter. The personal effect is the same, the online community is awesome and Marauder Shields is priceless
@AlienShagger
The only problem is that you're making the ASSUMPTION that Indoctrination Theory is accurate. I'll agree that it makes things work and allows for the upcoming DLC to work, but unfortunately as things stand right now IT is only fan fiction. It is not canon and Bioware reps at PAX East even insinuated that IT was only fan fiction.
#21036
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:16
BlueStorm83
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Whoa, LiarasShield, if you quote that one more time the thread may well collapse in on itself.
#21037
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:16
Voodoo-j
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3DandBeyond wrote...
Voodoo-j wrote...
I can't watch it anymore.. does it show Shepard in the rocks after Joker and crew are on the planet, or before.
Basically anything before it shows Shepard can (possibly) be considered non factual. It's what it show after that must be true without a doubt.
If any of that actually happened, there are still so many plot holes.
Shepard takes the breath heard round the world after Joker and friends trot out onto the planet where quite possibly Joker and Garrus must figure out some way to re-populate at least some part of the galaxy.
So, even if this is true, the ending is completely unresolved. We don't know where anyone is, and what has actually transpired. All we would have seen is a battle in Shepards mind.
#21038
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:17
Redbelle
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BSG's ending was an alternative origin to the human race. Evolutionary modern mans leap from neanderthal man was such a large jump that the gap in between was filled in by suggesting that we are all the love child of Gaius Baltar.........ok I made that last bit up. The BSG writers made up all the rest.
Anyway. since I have not been led to believe otherwise, I think the whole writing team is working on the ECDLC ending. Hopefully the whole team can write their way out of the hole the 2 man team wrote them into.
Anyway. since I have not been led to believe otherwise, I think the whole writing team is working on the ECDLC ending. Hopefully the whole team can write their way out of the hole the 2 man team wrote them into.
#21039
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:17
LiarasShield
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well I'm tired of restating stuff for idiotic impecilies who refuse to see what is infront of them so I'll only be quoting from now on
#21040
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:17
Redbelle
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BlueStorm83 wrote...
Whoa, LiarasShield, if you quote that one more time the thread may well collapse in on itself.
Eeeeeeeeeep!!! <ducks and covers>
#21041
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:17
bayul
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I made a thread about this, but it just gets buried by too many "hot" topics, so Ill post it in here:
I wanted to submit a concept that could help fix the multi-color explosion plot device.
What if the story, at some point clarified that the Crucible was meant to be super-computer designed to Overwrite by force Reaper code using their own "network server" the Citadel? THEN either an indoctrinated group of engineers (that you might need to flush out in a new DLC staged in the Crucible itself) rig the Crucible to work as a Galaxy cleansing chain-bomb in case the Reapers can't stop allied forces from accessing the citadel to connect the Crucible?
This way, the explosions make REAPER sense, and our analysis of the explosions real effects can be accepted:
Destroy option kills the reapers engaged in the war, cleanses the galaxy of life and allows for Reapers that were not engaged and still in dark-space to start their "bury the proof" process. Control, Reapers get what they want, a new Avatar, Sheppard, cleanse the galaxy and enslave Geth...while the green option corrupts DNA outside the explosion lethal zones (non relay systems), cleanses most Advanced life and secures a more manipulable Reaper cycle by making future organic life naturally compatible with cybernetics...which reapers are already the pinnacle of.
Sheppard can still save the day...if he saves the Crucible!
Even if Bioware is working on an extended cut, a DLC in this direction could still build up to an optional true victory inside Citadel space. And if Bioware still wants a "gloomy" perspective to be available, they can reveal that the crucible will force-overwrite reapers and hostile AI's inside relay space, in which relays act as transmitters for the crucible---making the citadel more important than ever before. Reapers in darkspace, surprised of the main fleet' defeat now sit in darkspace plotting how to return...now that direct attack is out of the question...and organics having free reign to "seed chaos in the galaxy"(by their logic).
What do you think? Would you recommend this rationale?
I wanted to submit a concept that could help fix the multi-color explosion plot device.
What if the story, at some point clarified that the Crucible was meant to be super-computer designed to Overwrite by force Reaper code using their own "network server" the Citadel? THEN either an indoctrinated group of engineers (that you might need to flush out in a new DLC staged in the Crucible itself) rig the Crucible to work as a Galaxy cleansing chain-bomb in case the Reapers can't stop allied forces from accessing the citadel to connect the Crucible?
This way, the explosions make REAPER sense, and our analysis of the explosions real effects can be accepted:
Destroy option kills the reapers engaged in the war, cleanses the galaxy of life and allows for Reapers that were not engaged and still in dark-space to start their "bury the proof" process. Control, Reapers get what they want, a new Avatar, Sheppard, cleanse the galaxy and enslave Geth...while the green option corrupts DNA outside the explosion lethal zones (non relay systems), cleanses most Advanced life and secures a more manipulable Reaper cycle by making future organic life naturally compatible with cybernetics...which reapers are already the pinnacle of.
Sheppard can still save the day...if he saves the Crucible!
Even if Bioware is working on an extended cut, a DLC in this direction could still build up to an optional true victory inside Citadel space. And if Bioware still wants a "gloomy" perspective to be available, they can reveal that the crucible will force-overwrite reapers and hostile AI's inside relay space, in which relays act as transmitters for the crucible---making the citadel more important than ever before. Reapers in darkspace, surprised of the main fleet' defeat now sit in darkspace plotting how to return...now that direct attack is out of the question...and organics having free reign to "seed chaos in the galaxy"(by their logic).
What do you think? Would you recommend this rationale?
#21042
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:20
LiarasShield
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LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
Thanatos144 wrote...
Gee you all think Bioware should put in a option for Shepard to commit selfish suicide of the galaxy?
He or She already does that by submitting to the being who has either created or controls the reapers who have been destroying advanced organic civilizations for thousands or millons of years so once shepard meets the main villian or the creater of the reapers he or she doesn't challange his twisted logic for the reason he causes mass genocide and only gives in to the creator of the reapers and only sees the creator of the reapers choices as shepards only options when this is the being who has used the reapers to destroy most of the galaxy zillions of times over
And in 2 of the 3 endings the reapers live and in all the endings shepards forces are trapt around our dying solar system so in all the endings either the reapers live or they cleanse most of the galaxy of advanced organic life
A sacrifice and a meaningful one only happens if you end up saving the people that you sacrifice your life for but because the main villian the catalyst forces shepard into what options he or she is promitted and gives up to the main villian and have the main villian decide what you should do it is no longer a victory or sacrifice since none of these choices was under shepards own will power and the creator of the reapers forced shepard into its decisions it would like to see appear
We don't win we didn't beat the reapers nor did we really save anybody our fleets are stranded in our damaged solar system and by the time they run out of supplies unless they can rebuild the relays or find a planet within our solar system that wasn't damaged then they do not have a shot
And any meaningful sacrifice was shot the moment shepard gave in to the main villian and had him decide what he or she does
We didn't beat the reapers they beated us
I can't accept a you lose ending no matter what it is the same garbage That ended up being FF 13-2
Well the requiem of the goddess Dlc was the final dlc that was released for 13-2 it was about lightnings final battle with caius after lightning returns to the future once serah and noel supposedly temporarily killed him only for serah to die and for lightning to fight caius and how she became crystal and if you get the secret fragment she ends up waking later on in the future in a dead world all by herself I don't know if any dlc can redeem this since snows and lightnings dlc were ment to be the last ones
Still thinking the person and or people who thought complete failure was ok were friends with the square enix guys or they're in both companies
Well hopefully if their is a 13-3 hopefully lightning will find a way to restore the timelines and vanqish the chaos of valhalla and perhaps restore her sister or perhaps meet her again in another time but it seems like lightning is the only survivor left after the chaos of valhalla hopefully lightning will be able to restore the earth or maybe become the new Goddess Of Etro
Still can't think why a suicide with no real victory is appealing to some of you it just makes me question the very sanity of people today U-u
WOW HOLGER AND SHAGGER SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS REALLY ARE THE BLIND FANBOYS THAT OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED I DID NOT GATHER THEE ENTIRE GALAXY TO DEFEAT THE REAPERS ONLY TO BOW OR SUBMIT TO THEIR CREATOR AND THEN BE FORCED INTO WHAT THE CREATOR OF THE REAPERS BELIEVES IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SHEPARD INSTEAD OF SHEPARD MAKING THAT OWN DECISION UNDER HIS OR HER OWN
WILL POWER HE OR SHE DOES EXACTLY WHAT THE CREATOR OF THE REAPERS WANTED
WITHOUT QUESTIONING OR FIGHTING BACK THE CATALYST IS THE ONE WHO MADE THE REAPERS
WHO HAVED BEEN DESTROYING ALL ADVANCED ORGANICS FOR AEONS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION
THAT HE WAS SAVING THEM BUT IF YOU're TRYING TO SAVE SOMEONE YOU DON't
JUST DESTROY THEM OR NOT GIVE THEM ADVANCED WARNING THE CATALYST COULD've USED THE REAPERS TO DESTROY THE ADVANCED SYNTHETICS
TO SAVE ORGANIC
LIFE AS HE TRIES TO SO CALL PROTECT THEM BUT NO DOES HE DO THAT NO HE USES THE REAPERS TO CONTROL
THE GETH
TO DESTROY US AND HE SAID THE REAPERS WERE THEIR TO SUPPOSEDLY SAVE ORGANICS FROM
SYNTHETICS BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE
A Noble sacrifice is when the hero who sacrifices him or herself ultimately saves the people that he or she sacrifices themselves for but since all the relays are destroyed or knocked out unless their is a planet in sol system that wasn't damaged by the reapers or if they can rebuild the relays they will eventually starve to death or run out of rescources it is no longer a noble sacrifice but a suicide to bow to them enemy you swore to defeat to give into the enemy and have him make your choices for you
HE CREATED THE DAMN REAPERS WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR ALL THREE GAMES THE VERY SAME REAPERS THAT ARE DESTROYING OUR GALAXY AND EARTH AND IN TWO OF THE THREE ENDINGS THE REAPERS LIVE AND IN ALL ENDINGS OUR FORCES ARE TRAPT IN OUR
SOLAR SYSTEM SO THE REAPERS EITHER LIVE OR SUCCEDE IN CLEANSING THE GALAXY OF ORGANIC LIFE
I'm Done trying to be respectful or reason with some of you because you don't have great attention span or you refuse to see what is in your damn face that is shown to you
I'd wish I could have that happy denial that you all have or accept a ending where we surrender to the enemy who has been destroying us you mustt be smoking some strong stuff to think that is alright
I didn't bring the galaxy together only for my enemy to tell me what I have to do or to give into what they want me to do And yes it is better to die or go extinct then to bow to someone or be someones slave
To be so blind or to completely hope for something that wasn't shown s so beyond me that it shatters all conscious thought or potential reasoning
Modifié par LiarasShield, 22 mai 2012 - 02:22 .
#21043
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:22
Redbelle
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bayul wrote...
I made a thread about this, but it just gets buried by too many "hot" topics, so Ill post it in here:
I wanted to submit a concept that could help fix the multi-color explosion plot device.
What if the story, at some point clarified that the Crucible was meant to be super-computer designed to Overwrite by force Reaper code using their own "network server" the Citadel? THEN either an indoctrinated group of engineers (that you might need to flush out in a new DLC staged in the Crucible itself) rig the Crucible to work as a Galaxy cleansing chain-bomb in case the Reapers can't stop allied forces from accessing the citadel to connect the Crucible?
This way, the explosions make REAPER sense, and our analysis of the explosions real effects can be accepted:
Destroy option kills the reapers engaged in the war, cleanses the galaxy of life and allows for Reapers that were not engaged and still in dark-space to start their "bury the proof" process. Control, Reapers get what they want, a new Avatar, Sheppard, cleanse the galaxy and enslave Geth...while the green option corrupts DNA outside the explosion lethal zones (non relay systems), cleanses most Advanced life and secures a more manipulable Reaper cycle by making future organic life naturally compatible with cybernetics...which reapers are already the pinnacle of.
Sheppard can still save the day...if he saves the Crucible!
Even if Bioware is working on an extended cut, a DLC in this direction could still build up to an optional true victory inside Citadel space. And if Bioware still wants a "gloomy" perspective to be available, they can reveal that the crucible will force-overwrite reapers and hostile AI's inside relay space, in which relays act as transmitters for the crucible---making the citadel more important than ever before. Reapers in darkspace, surprised of the main fleet' defeat now sit in darkspace plotting how to return...now that direct attack is out of the question...and organics having free reign to "seed chaos in the galaxy"(by their logic).
What do you think? Would you recommend this rationale?
It's got potential. The only problem I can see at present is explaining how organic becomes partly synthetic and vice versa. You could use the implants contained in organics as a device to explain this but that hinges on every organic containing implants. Not sure how to suggest making suynthetics partly organic though. Reapers aren't a problem, they are already partly organic. Geth have oraganic like apendages...... The problem is Edi. I don't know if she is all machine or if she has organic's in her.
#21044
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:24
Redbelle
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Aaaarrgh, Liarashields stop! That posts to big! The internet's shaking apart!!! You'll kill us all!!!!
.....................That was a joke.
.....................That was a joke.
Modifié par Redbelle, 22 mai 2012 - 02:24 .
#21045
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:25
LiarasShield
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The internet is shaking apart that is funny but seriously blind fan boys who think giving into the enemy making a suicide that ultimately either doesn't stop the reapers or helps with them cleansing advanced organic life in the galaxy SEVERLY PISSES ME OFF
#21046
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:27
LiarasShield
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Bioware has already stated I believe in the final hours app and during their regular annoucements somewhere that the indoctrination theory was not what they were going for so with that in mind that is not what happended so all the ****ed up **** I've been mentiong since I think page 730 and in the 20 or 30 posts I've be talking about actually did ****nig happen
#21047
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:27
AlienShagger
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[quote]3DandBeyond wrote...
You are however asserting that indoctrination is real for the player. But no, I never was indoctrinated. I'm sorry but this is reading way too much into it.
[/quote]
I think you are indoctrinated. I know I am. I think that your outrage about the ending of the game should be the same as the outrage about the war in Iraq and that the feeling of hopelessness and powerlessness should be familiar. I think it is pretty gutsy of BioWare not to let you hide from it in your "entertainment".
[quote]
The fact that you can ascribe such meaning to an ending that was rushed (it was changed from what it was supposed to be to this partly in light of the leak) is to deny what happened. You are welcome to it, if that helps you digest the game, but that does not change what happend.
[/quote]
If the author accidentally makes a masterpiece and afterwards tells me that he meant something else, I will just throw him out of the picture. He should be embracing with both arms the genius of his luck. If they changed it last minute, BioWare should be thanking their lucky stars and pray to whatever diety can grant them the the skill and the balls to make something comparable in the future.
[quote]
The ending is not what was promised in any way, shape, or form and does not fulfill some very core promises that were specifically
stated ...
[/quote]
You just described the war in Iraq, the economic situation world wide, human rights, you name it. I know, it's your entertainment and you paid for it, but I am glad they didn't let you stay asleep. Probably best money you spent on a game this year. Being mad is good. Just look at the community; it's amazing and it's many people who usually stay away from stuff like that; thoughtful and reasoned. We should do that more often.
[quote]
This wasn't a David Lynch movie, it was more akin to Star Trek and Star Wars than Inception. The ending was supposed to answer all questions not make people go "what?" An intelligent story at the end may have you ask why. This ending makes people not even want to know why. They don't like it first and foremost at a gut level. Beyond that they feel insulted intellectually.
[/quote]
I disagree with most of this. The ending is highly intellectual and (accidental or not) is not a mindless provocation and it works on almost anybody. It relates directly to our reality on many levels.
[quote]
In order for this pseudo-intellectualism to involve any true intellect, it needed to challenge people's core concepts, but it didn't. It slapped me in the face and told me that was a good time. It insults intelligence by faking intelligence. In order to make sense of it you must either believe it is all an hallucination (indoctrination) or well otherwise it makes no sense. But in terms of this story and not some other Salvadord Dali-esque visionary dystopic view of fatalism, the ending fails and indoctrination does not salvage it. Indoctrination ruins it-it taints Shepard's character unless it is rejected. But again it is not an ending. If it's true, the reapers still need to die.
[/quote]
No, the indoctrination is not for Shepard, it's for you. The game makes you, the player, choose between what you know is right and the path of least resistance or control. These things matter to you, you want your friends and associates and lovers to win and this makes you stressed, afraid and open to wishful thinking. This is the moment of indoctrination. All of your choices are seen in the light of that one decision, you decide the direction for your war machine if you will. I think that is largely the same in life. I have been gathering the strength to do something of the sort for years.
I guess you are right and they may have failed with majority, but they hit home with me for sure. Very ballsy, if they intended it this way. But they at least pissed you off and made you talk to me, so that's a start.
[quote]
I applaud you for finding a way to make it work for you, but your theories are for you alone. They are so far removed from anything that took place in this story that they are just fantastical.
[/quote]
Halucination is the only way to explain things that happen after the beam. The fact that they are radically different than the rest of the game just augments the importance of the message. If it's just BioWare's incompetence and they went from a team of competent writers to a team of untrained monkeys, thank whatever deity decided to make them **** up this consistently.
[quote]
You've based a lot of your thought on what Shepard thinks or believes about the Crucible and all along Shepard is not that believing of it-s/he continually questions what it is.
[/quote]
Optimally, the Crucible is something that the Reapers wanted you to build and tow to earth for whatever purpose, but it can be used to hurt them. Worst case: it can't be used to hurt them.
In both cases you just beat Indoctrination - at the very least we won't be making any more machines for the benefit of the Reapers. The way I see it, that is half the battle,
because Reapers seem to be completely inapt at anything that requires
precision work and need indoctrination for any kind of serious
invasion/work planet-side. This is largely the same in real life, if you think about class conflict.
[quote]
You apparently believe that because you are of a certain generation and have read Plato that puts you in a different realm than others. Most likely I am older than you. So. I'm not averse to intellectual reading or intellectual thought, though I am not intellectual. However, what most of us feel is we bought a game. A very smart, thoughty game that dealt with some raw issues and that did that well. If, as you say the game departed and entered into the realm of fantasy and existentialism (which I do not believe was intended) on purpose, then shame on them. I wasn't looking for Mario Brothers, nor was I looking for some passion play ending by Sartre.
[/quote]
I am just a slave, but I'm not a husk yet. Same realm as the 99%.
I think the game attempted to get us to think about real life for a brief few minutes. Not a deep thinker Sartre, more like the bully Socrates prodding us with questions and anticipating a reaction. Frankly, I am fairly amazed they went that way myself. I even love the outrage - how awesome is this community?
[quote]
I was looking for an ending that reflected my choices in the game. An ending that played out storywise just as the games before had. I was looking for an ending that remained grounded in the story at hand and that remained true to the real art that was in the plotlines that came before and the character interaction that had so far driven the games.
[/quote]
I know, me too. Instead they gave me hopelessness and powerlessness... Truly ballsy or idiotic, however you want to look at it, but also 100% on the money with me and my priorities in the fight: indoctrination first.
[quote]
I wasn't complacent about anything. You assume something here. But I was playing a game for fun. And more often fun doesn't end on a note of "what?!!!!?"
[/quote]
Playing a game that grants me victory on top of victory and showing me the Mission Accomplished banner at the end is what I see as the height of complacency-training. This stuff is never just "for fun".
[quote]
I'd also say that from a purely business standpoint it makes no sense. The ending does not make one want to figure it out-it makes the head hurt. This does not lead one into buying DLC and so on. It's not fun. Even a heroic sacrifice would be way more fun. But it needed to appeal not only to our heads in some comrehendible way, but also to our hearts. It fails on both counts. You've had to make up the story of what the ending means to you. I wanted a real ending. That doesn't mean I wanted something dumb and just a lot of big explosions. I wanted an ending story that fit the story in the game. The ending was promoted and promised to answer all questions and show everything that happened. It doesn't.
[/quote]
You are right. I am fine with the non-ending. You may be entirely right that the BioWare didn't plan this ending at all. I think actually that some crazy writer said in a meeting right after release of ME2: I think we should indoctrinate Shepard somehow, make him do something huge, all of it seemingly for nothing, but let the player decide between indoctrination or freedom. People came in their pants imediately and created The Arrival DLC, the only mandatory DLC masked by a ton of additional crap - a place where shepard is clearly exposed to the indoctrination machine. Then later the ending kindof drifted in ME3, but they were massively lucky and ready to hold tight in face of criticism.
That is my favourable interpretation. The less than faourable is the one where they ****ed up gruesomely.
If they did it in a stroke of genius, this is the standard I will be holding them up to in the future; good luck with that. If they ****ed up, well then it's like listening to "I had a dream" speech and now it's a week later and the man is dead.
So I take the game for what it is now. They created a masterpiece. Whatever lame ass ending they come up with now will not change the fact that I spent hours talking to people world wide about them being pissed about injustice and not knowing whether everyone made it out ok and wanting more power and say and their actions to matter. Hell yes. More of that. On real life issues, if at all possible.
Now I have to do some calibrations; the Reapers I work for may notice.
You are however asserting that indoctrination is real for the player. But no, I never was indoctrinated. I'm sorry but this is reading way too much into it.
[/quote]
I think you are indoctrinated. I know I am. I think that your outrage about the ending of the game should be the same as the outrage about the war in Iraq and that the feeling of hopelessness and powerlessness should be familiar. I think it is pretty gutsy of BioWare not to let you hide from it in your "entertainment".
[quote]
The fact that you can ascribe such meaning to an ending that was rushed (it was changed from what it was supposed to be to this partly in light of the leak) is to deny what happened. You are welcome to it, if that helps you digest the game, but that does not change what happend.
[/quote]
If the author accidentally makes a masterpiece and afterwards tells me that he meant something else, I will just throw him out of the picture. He should be embracing with both arms the genius of his luck. If they changed it last minute, BioWare should be thanking their lucky stars and pray to whatever diety can grant them the the skill and the balls to make something comparable in the future.
[quote]
The ending is not what was promised in any way, shape, or form and does not fulfill some very core promises that were specifically
stated ...
[/quote]
You just described the war in Iraq, the economic situation world wide, human rights, you name it. I know, it's your entertainment and you paid for it, but I am glad they didn't let you stay asleep. Probably best money you spent on a game this year. Being mad is good. Just look at the community; it's amazing and it's many people who usually stay away from stuff like that; thoughtful and reasoned. We should do that more often.
[quote]
This wasn't a David Lynch movie, it was more akin to Star Trek and Star Wars than Inception. The ending was supposed to answer all questions not make people go "what?" An intelligent story at the end may have you ask why. This ending makes people not even want to know why. They don't like it first and foremost at a gut level. Beyond that they feel insulted intellectually.
[/quote]
I disagree with most of this. The ending is highly intellectual and (accidental or not) is not a mindless provocation and it works on almost anybody. It relates directly to our reality on many levels.
[quote]
In order for this pseudo-intellectualism to involve any true intellect, it needed to challenge people's core concepts, but it didn't. It slapped me in the face and told me that was a good time. It insults intelligence by faking intelligence. In order to make sense of it you must either believe it is all an hallucination (indoctrination) or well otherwise it makes no sense. But in terms of this story and not some other Salvadord Dali-esque visionary dystopic view of fatalism, the ending fails and indoctrination does not salvage it. Indoctrination ruins it-it taints Shepard's character unless it is rejected. But again it is not an ending. If it's true, the reapers still need to die.
[/quote]
No, the indoctrination is not for Shepard, it's for you. The game makes you, the player, choose between what you know is right and the path of least resistance or control. These things matter to you, you want your friends and associates and lovers to win and this makes you stressed, afraid and open to wishful thinking. This is the moment of indoctrination. All of your choices are seen in the light of that one decision, you decide the direction for your war machine if you will. I think that is largely the same in life. I have been gathering the strength to do something of the sort for years.
I guess you are right and they may have failed with majority, but they hit home with me for sure. Very ballsy, if they intended it this way. But they at least pissed you off and made you talk to me, so that's a start.
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I applaud you for finding a way to make it work for you, but your theories are for you alone. They are so far removed from anything that took place in this story that they are just fantastical.
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Halucination is the only way to explain things that happen after the beam. The fact that they are radically different than the rest of the game just augments the importance of the message. If it's just BioWare's incompetence and they went from a team of competent writers to a team of untrained monkeys, thank whatever deity decided to make them **** up this consistently.
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You've based a lot of your thought on what Shepard thinks or believes about the Crucible and all along Shepard is not that believing of it-s/he continually questions what it is.
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Optimally, the Crucible is something that the Reapers wanted you to build and tow to earth for whatever purpose, but it can be used to hurt them. Worst case: it can't be used to hurt them.
In both cases you just beat Indoctrination - at the very least we won't be making any more machines for the benefit of the Reapers. The way I see it, that is half the battle,
because Reapers seem to be completely inapt at anything that requires
precision work and need indoctrination for any kind of serious
invasion/work planet-side. This is largely the same in real life, if you think about class conflict.
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You apparently believe that because you are of a certain generation and have read Plato that puts you in a different realm than others. Most likely I am older than you. So. I'm not averse to intellectual reading or intellectual thought, though I am not intellectual. However, what most of us feel is we bought a game. A very smart, thoughty game that dealt with some raw issues and that did that well. If, as you say the game departed and entered into the realm of fantasy and existentialism (which I do not believe was intended) on purpose, then shame on them. I wasn't looking for Mario Brothers, nor was I looking for some passion play ending by Sartre.
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I am just a slave, but I'm not a husk yet. Same realm as the 99%.
I think the game attempted to get us to think about real life for a brief few minutes. Not a deep thinker Sartre, more like the bully Socrates prodding us with questions and anticipating a reaction. Frankly, I am fairly amazed they went that way myself. I even love the outrage - how awesome is this community?
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I was looking for an ending that reflected my choices in the game. An ending that played out storywise just as the games before had. I was looking for an ending that remained grounded in the story at hand and that remained true to the real art that was in the plotlines that came before and the character interaction that had so far driven the games.
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I know, me too. Instead they gave me hopelessness and powerlessness... Truly ballsy or idiotic, however you want to look at it, but also 100% on the money with me and my priorities in the fight: indoctrination first.
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I wasn't complacent about anything. You assume something here. But I was playing a game for fun. And more often fun doesn't end on a note of "what?!!!!?"
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Playing a game that grants me victory on top of victory and showing me the Mission Accomplished banner at the end is what I see as the height of complacency-training. This stuff is never just "for fun".
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I'd also say that from a purely business standpoint it makes no sense. The ending does not make one want to figure it out-it makes the head hurt. This does not lead one into buying DLC and so on. It's not fun. Even a heroic sacrifice would be way more fun. But it needed to appeal not only to our heads in some comrehendible way, but also to our hearts. It fails on both counts. You've had to make up the story of what the ending means to you. I wanted a real ending. That doesn't mean I wanted something dumb and just a lot of big explosions. I wanted an ending story that fit the story in the game. The ending was promoted and promised to answer all questions and show everything that happened. It doesn't.
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You are right. I am fine with the non-ending. You may be entirely right that the BioWare didn't plan this ending at all. I think actually that some crazy writer said in a meeting right after release of ME2: I think we should indoctrinate Shepard somehow, make him do something huge, all of it seemingly for nothing, but let the player decide between indoctrination or freedom. People came in their pants imediately and created The Arrival DLC, the only mandatory DLC masked by a ton of additional crap - a place where shepard is clearly exposed to the indoctrination machine. Then later the ending kindof drifted in ME3, but they were massively lucky and ready to hold tight in face of criticism.
That is my favourable interpretation. The less than faourable is the one where they ****ed up gruesomely.
If they did it in a stroke of genius, this is the standard I will be holding them up to in the future; good luck with that. If they ****ed up, well then it's like listening to "I had a dream" speech and now it's a week later and the man is dead.
So I take the game for what it is now. They created a masterpiece. Whatever lame ass ending they come up with now will not change the fact that I spent hours talking to people world wide about them being pissed about injustice and not knowing whether everyone made it out ok and wanting more power and say and their actions to matter. Hell yes. More of that. On real life issues, if at all possible.
Now I have to do some calibrations; the Reapers I work for may notice.
Modifié par AlienShagger, 22 mai 2012 - 02:28 .
#21048
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:29
Redbelle
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With any luck that writer who had to take his post down on the problems with the ending is looking over these points fans are making and will generate new scenes that will provide context as to what Shepard achieves by going A, B or C.
It's not great but it's all we have been told to expect.
DLC wise though I'm not giving up hope till march next year when I expect the ME3 DLC to end.
It's not great but it's all we have been told to expect.
DLC wise though I'm not giving up hope till march next year when I expect the ME3 DLC to end.
Modifié par Redbelle, 22 mai 2012 - 02:30 .
#21049
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:32
sdinc009
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Holger1405 wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
Still can't think why a suicide with no real victory is appealing to some of you it just makes me question the very sanity of people today U-uBlueStorm83 wrote...
--- I'm quick to say that anyone who LOVED the endings is just a blind fanboy. While I acknowledge that it is possible for a human being to enjoy anything (LOTS of horrible sick fetishes exist) I'd be more willing to believe that people would say things like, "If the Catalyst created not only the Reapers, but all current organic life as well, I'd be willing to trust him and then ending BLANK was satisfying to me." Qualify it. I can accept a victory ending, I can accept a defeat ending. I can't accept an ending that tries to do both, succeeds at neither, and hinges on a character with a POWERFULLY independant and decisionmaking personality just kinda give up.
Ironically, Shepard was Shepherded into three near-identical cluster****s.
These two statements showing an incredible lack of appreciation for other people's opinions.
In addition they are offensive, especially because they are also based on opinions only. Opinions who are neither confirmed nor the absolute truth.
@Holger1405
I'm inclined to agree you here. There's no need to insult others based soley on their opinion. I don't agree with the people that like the ending and have many posts that detail how it is a terribly broken ending, but I do not need to reduce myself to insults to get my point across. Let's keep things repectful people
#21050
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 02:34
LiarasShield
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Their is no way in the shining burning red star of our sun can I accept a ending where we give into the enemy that has been destroying the galaxy and us The very same enemy that we brought the entire galaxy to beat them I did not bring us all together I didn't bring the armies to fight the reapers only to submit to their creator or have the reaper god tell me what my final options are and just submitting to him
Shepard in general has always been about finding another way or not giving up under extreme Impossiable situations but not only does he or she break characters and gives up entirely but gives into the head of the reapers to have the reapers pick what they want and for them to ultimately win it is the shame nonsense that ruined Final Fantasy 13-2 where no matter all that you did the bad guys still wins or for all your actions to not meaning anything or for it to not change anything at all
Shepard in general has always been about finding another way or not giving up under extreme Impossiable situations but not only does he or she break characters and gives up entirely but gives into the head of the reapers to have the reapers pick what they want and for them to ultimately win it is the shame nonsense that ruined Final Fantasy 13-2 where no matter all that you did the bad guys still wins or for all your actions to not meaning anything or for it to not change anything at all
