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Sad news
On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 15 2012 02:55
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#21177
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 12:26
3DandBeyond
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@AlienShagger,
Yes, it is possible to leave that stuff behind. I don't believe all that you are saying at all. I'm not sitting here believing the Bilderburg group is really setting about to annihilate most of the world's population so they can have it all.
And really, Bioware is now working for some over-arching mind control group that has sought to control us all since I was a child. Wow. Hmmm, it's amazing. They must belong to the same group that told Pres. Obama's mom to pretend he was born in the US by posting a fake birth announcement so that 46 years later he would become Pres.
Seriously, if I'm playing Little Big Planet I've been indoctrinated? Yes, my gaming does allow me to leave current events behind and yes, people do compartmentalize things. When someone goes to see a movie they are immersed in the movie and yet, when they've finished watching it they can still come back and care about things that are going on.
People constantly compartmentalize things. They may be happy when playing with their child, but sad they have to go to work. People take pictures of family into work in order to help infuse some of their personal life into the hours they are away-to puncture the compartmentalization. All of our lives is about compartmentalization. We spend time with friends and then time with family and then work and then alone. We often seek compartmentalization. People (often men) lock themselves in the bathroom (library) to be cut off. People cut themselves off emotionally. And even what you are suggesting is compartmentalization. If someone out there is playing the big trick on us all, then by your own words we have shut it out and created a fantasy world we are happier to live in. That's the height of compartmentalization.
Basically, I feel sorry if you feel this way. The main problem is that yes, you do see conspiracy, but as everyone knows it would take a monumental effort for mutliple whole governments or media employees to do what you are suggesting (keep the secret) and yet, I do believe that things such as a free press have taken a turn for the worse with the consolidation of the media under 2 or 3 larger companies. But I am not making the leap from there to some idea that FEMA has secret CIA concentration camps they are creating for all of us in Alaska. What I do know is that the US had Japanese concentration camps in WWII and the ****s had huge concentration camps as well of course. What I do know is that Christopher Columbus was a great man of sorts, but flawed in many ways. Over all he was a man of his time with ideas that went far above those of others. He bears responsibility for some of what happened in his wake, but others are far more responsible. I think many horrific things have been done in the pursuit of finer things and many are done within the vacuum of current knowledge and values.
But, back to the point. I see the many mistakes and often horrific things being done today. But unfortunately this has always been so. It doesn't mean I just accept everything I am told in order to live in happy ignorance. I can work for change and hope lives on. I am not going to force the ending of ME3 to fit with some dystopic view of Big Brother-that Bioware intended this to show us how we've been indoctrinated or to indoctrinate us.
I think believing this stuff is paranoia setting in and I believe it is pessimistic. A little bit of real questioning and not always acceptance of just what you are fed is very healthy. But to give into this as a whole is paranoia. Of course there are those with machinations behind the scene trying to control everything, just as there has always been. It is one type of human nature. But there are still good people doing good things and not all people are sheep.
All those things I cited (red scare, war on drugs) and all, I fully recognize as someone's attempt to politically sway things. In many ways, we have entered an environment that allows for this kind of thing (insert your own term, your own ism here) to scare people once again and then get them to make political judgements based upon fear. But, this has always been done-it's cyclical and stupidity and intellect rises and falls like the tides.
And now you are telling me that if I'm playing a game and think of it as a game, then I've been indoctrinated. It isn't supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be informing me of how my mind has been controlled or hiding it's real purpose from me which is to control my mind. Uh, no. ME does have commentary in it, but it allows the player along the way to decide what to think of the issues within that galaxy as they exist within that time. Sure, there are real world comparisons, but you don't sit there and constantly have to apply those to the game in order to play the game as a game. It sometimes seems dark, but never takes itself too seriously even when dealing with the most real issues that it does. The ending isn't some traveler's advisory on real world indoctrination, it's a ball of nonsense.
ME is a game (series of games) and if they really meant to make some lasting comment on how we've all been used by everything we trust in real life or everything we see and do, then shame on them. That's not the game I bought and as voodoo says, it doesn't even matter whether you like the ending or not. That isn't the ending that was promised to us, so we are indicating disgust in that. I don't care what it's meaning was at this point.
Yes, it is possible to leave that stuff behind. I don't believe all that you are saying at all. I'm not sitting here believing the Bilderburg group is really setting about to annihilate most of the world's population so they can have it all.
And really, Bioware is now working for some over-arching mind control group that has sought to control us all since I was a child. Wow. Hmmm, it's amazing. They must belong to the same group that told Pres. Obama's mom to pretend he was born in the US by posting a fake birth announcement so that 46 years later he would become Pres.
Seriously, if I'm playing Little Big Planet I've been indoctrinated? Yes, my gaming does allow me to leave current events behind and yes, people do compartmentalize things. When someone goes to see a movie they are immersed in the movie and yet, when they've finished watching it they can still come back and care about things that are going on.
People constantly compartmentalize things. They may be happy when playing with their child, but sad they have to go to work. People take pictures of family into work in order to help infuse some of their personal life into the hours they are away-to puncture the compartmentalization. All of our lives is about compartmentalization. We spend time with friends and then time with family and then work and then alone. We often seek compartmentalization. People (often men) lock themselves in the bathroom (library) to be cut off. People cut themselves off emotionally. And even what you are suggesting is compartmentalization. If someone out there is playing the big trick on us all, then by your own words we have shut it out and created a fantasy world we are happier to live in. That's the height of compartmentalization.
Basically, I feel sorry if you feel this way. The main problem is that yes, you do see conspiracy, but as everyone knows it would take a monumental effort for mutliple whole governments or media employees to do what you are suggesting (keep the secret) and yet, I do believe that things such as a free press have taken a turn for the worse with the consolidation of the media under 2 or 3 larger companies. But I am not making the leap from there to some idea that FEMA has secret CIA concentration camps they are creating for all of us in Alaska. What I do know is that the US had Japanese concentration camps in WWII and the ****s had huge concentration camps as well of course. What I do know is that Christopher Columbus was a great man of sorts, but flawed in many ways. Over all he was a man of his time with ideas that went far above those of others. He bears responsibility for some of what happened in his wake, but others are far more responsible. I think many horrific things have been done in the pursuit of finer things and many are done within the vacuum of current knowledge and values.
But, back to the point. I see the many mistakes and often horrific things being done today. But unfortunately this has always been so. It doesn't mean I just accept everything I am told in order to live in happy ignorance. I can work for change and hope lives on. I am not going to force the ending of ME3 to fit with some dystopic view of Big Brother-that Bioware intended this to show us how we've been indoctrinated or to indoctrinate us.
I think believing this stuff is paranoia setting in and I believe it is pessimistic. A little bit of real questioning and not always acceptance of just what you are fed is very healthy. But to give into this as a whole is paranoia. Of course there are those with machinations behind the scene trying to control everything, just as there has always been. It is one type of human nature. But there are still good people doing good things and not all people are sheep.
All those things I cited (red scare, war on drugs) and all, I fully recognize as someone's attempt to politically sway things. In many ways, we have entered an environment that allows for this kind of thing (insert your own term, your own ism here) to scare people once again and then get them to make political judgements based upon fear. But, this has always been done-it's cyclical and stupidity and intellect rises and falls like the tides.
And now you are telling me that if I'm playing a game and think of it as a game, then I've been indoctrinated. It isn't supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be informing me of how my mind has been controlled or hiding it's real purpose from me which is to control my mind. Uh, no. ME does have commentary in it, but it allows the player along the way to decide what to think of the issues within that galaxy as they exist within that time. Sure, there are real world comparisons, but you don't sit there and constantly have to apply those to the game in order to play the game as a game. It sometimes seems dark, but never takes itself too seriously even when dealing with the most real issues that it does. The ending isn't some traveler's advisory on real world indoctrination, it's a ball of nonsense.
ME is a game (series of games) and if they really meant to make some lasting comment on how we've all been used by everything we trust in real life or everything we see and do, then shame on them. That's not the game I bought and as voodoo says, it doesn't even matter whether you like the ending or not. That isn't the ending that was promised to us, so we are indicating disgust in that. I don't care what it's meaning was at this point.
Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 01:03 .
#21178
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 12:55
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darkway1 wrote...
Sad news
This should be something a company would take as a warning sign. And I mean both EA and Bioware. It seems their intent was to take Bioware games (perhaps why EA acquired BW) and make MMOs out of them. They intend to do so with ME.
I don't wish a lost job upon anyone. But, I again point to the failure of both companies to recognize and appreciate the fans they have. One commenter says it best He'd have paid a full year's subscription price for KOTOR3. A great many people are not just looking to play a game that seems somewhat like the ones they've loved. MMOs are no substitute for the great single player campaigns that many Bioware games have offered.
The problem is we don't know who is pushing for MMOs (who to be disgusted with) and who isn't (who to cheer for). But this puts things into black and white categories. Companies fail to see (or don't have enough staff) that it could be possible to do both and MMO and great single player games. But again, you dance with the one that brung you. Meaning if someone helps you achieve success, you don't turn your back on them.
#21179
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:03
darkway1
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Basically we all looked at the Bioware menu.....we selected the Bioware MassEffect steak special....waited and got Bioware's pasta salad instead..........this is not what I ordered,not what I wanted and not what was on the menu..........I am currently still sitting at the table waiting for a response from the staff.....the staff have gone silent.......so here I sit,moaning about the mix up waiting for the food I ordered to arrive.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have already payed for my meal I would have walked out long ago.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have already payed for my meal I would have walked out long ago.
#21180
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:12
Sartheris
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I have just finished ME3, the red version... I don't even know what to say, I am still processing the things, but I am dissapointed really... All this effort for nothing, I didn't even understand what happened with my crew, OR with my shepard... Just wtf ?
#21181
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:25
Voodoo-j
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darkway1 wrote...
Basically we all looked at the Bioware menu.....we selected the Bioware MassEffect steak special....waited and got Bioware's pasta salad instead..........this is not what I ordered,not what I wanted and not what was on the menu..........I am currently still sitting at the table waiting for a response from the staff.....the staff have gone silent.......so here I sit,moaning about the mix up waiting for the food I ordered to arrive.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have already payed for my meal I would have walked out long ago.
And in the past when we ate at Biowares' they usually have some extra drinks and dessert as well, they have spoiled us so much, worth every penny, but now this
#21182
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:29
3DandBeyond
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darkway1 wrote...
Basically we all looked at the Bioware menu.....we selected the Bioware MassEffect steak special....waited and got Bioware's pasta salad instead..........this is not what I ordered,not what I wanted and not what was on the menu..........I am currently still sitting at the table waiting for a response from the staff.....the staff have gone silent.......so here I sit,moaning about the mix up waiting for the food I ordered to arrive.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have already payed for my meal I would have walked out long ago.
Unfortunately, actually what happened is you visited a restaurant where you like the steak, and have always gotten steak. You ordered steak, were told it was steak, but you were actually given grilled steak substitute made from re-processed rubber bands. It tasted different from the steak you always got before-it had an especially bitter aftertaste and was a bit chewier. And now you no longer are happy with the restaurant and get indigestion just thinking about all that steak you ate before.
The staff told you that you just don't know what good steak is made of and can't appreciate good steak and now they refuse to talk to you. Instead they just keep seating people that don't question them about the steak (people that heard you hate it and then heard that it was made of rubber bands)-they seat them and ignore you. The only thing they offer you is a list of ingredients of what's in the steak and a little bit more steak just so you can see how good the "steak" is that you got. What you've been told is this "steak" is just such good steak, that you don't deserve a real steak.
Of course, you realize that you were actually promised filet mignon. You were told it would be everything you expected filet mignon would be. You were told the quality would reflect the amount of money you spent on it. When you point this out, surrogates for the restaurant tell you to quit whining, you don't get something for nothing, you weren't told what you were told even though it's printed in the menu, and that all you are is part of an entitlement crowd that thinks people should make steak just for you.
Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 01:30 .
#21183
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:47
3DandBeyond
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Ok and now I just want to entertain people with this thought:
We all know the star kid scene changes how we've seen Shepard. I for one believe Shepard should be protesting like hell that the kid makes no sense and that s/he won't make any choice and all.
However, what I had forgotten is this. Shepard does protest this kid's created will rebel and destroy the creator logic. Just not at the end.
On Rannoch, (and I don't know if this depends on what Shepard does with the geth/quarian conflict), but...
Shepard fights and kills the big reaper (well fire from ship's in space kill it) and then Shepard talks to it. The thing says Shepard (and all people) can't understand its purpose and talks about the cycle and needing to kill organics to save them (circular logic, Shepard protests).
The reaper also says it is there to bring order from chaos, something the kid echoes later on. But at least one type of Shepard will tell the reaper that organics and synthetics do not always have to destroy each other. The reaper says the battle for Rannoch disproves that.
What is stupid in this is that they've seen what has gone on and then so must see what can happen next, but Shepard gets to the end of the game, the kid again repeats the stuff this dying reaper said and now Shepard just doesn't disagree with it.
What I mean is Shepard believed and protested, saying organics and synthetics didn't have to destroy each other BEFORE uniting the Quarian and Geth and BEFORE all the info on the help the Geth were giving-helping the Quarian get rid of their suits and repopulate and rebuild Rannoch. But AFTER Shepard sees all this, Shepard says nothing. This indicates that the person that wrote the ending did not know the full story arc-at least one possible story arc.
I also really want to point people that love the ending to play the geth/quarian quest again and make the paragon choices to unite them-all the bells and whistles and then see if you can agree with any choice. And then get Joker and EDI together and exhaust all conversation with both of them in every place you find them-even the no choice conversations. You cannot view Synthesis as acceptable if you steer EDI toward full personhood. There's so much subtle dialog there that is fairly easy to miss if you don't keep going back and talking to them. Same thing with everyone. It's all there in the conversations, even just in ME3. Everyone can make all 3 choices abhorrent, based upon the type of Shepard you play. And the micro conversations with no choice are just as revealing as the ones with choices.
We all know the star kid scene changes how we've seen Shepard. I for one believe Shepard should be protesting like hell that the kid makes no sense and that s/he won't make any choice and all.
However, what I had forgotten is this. Shepard does protest this kid's created will rebel and destroy the creator logic. Just not at the end.
On Rannoch, (and I don't know if this depends on what Shepard does with the geth/quarian conflict), but...
Shepard fights and kills the big reaper (well fire from ship's in space kill it) and then Shepard talks to it. The thing says Shepard (and all people) can't understand its purpose and talks about the cycle and needing to kill organics to save them (circular logic, Shepard protests).
The reaper also says it is there to bring order from chaos, something the kid echoes later on. But at least one type of Shepard will tell the reaper that organics and synthetics do not always have to destroy each other. The reaper says the battle for Rannoch disproves that.
What is stupid in this is that they've seen what has gone on and then so must see what can happen next, but Shepard gets to the end of the game, the kid again repeats the stuff this dying reaper said and now Shepard just doesn't disagree with it.
What I mean is Shepard believed and protested, saying organics and synthetics didn't have to destroy each other BEFORE uniting the Quarian and Geth and BEFORE all the info on the help the Geth were giving-helping the Quarian get rid of their suits and repopulate and rebuild Rannoch. But AFTER Shepard sees all this, Shepard says nothing. This indicates that the person that wrote the ending did not know the full story arc-at least one possible story arc.
I also really want to point people that love the ending to play the geth/quarian quest again and make the paragon choices to unite them-all the bells and whistles and then see if you can agree with any choice. And then get Joker and EDI together and exhaust all conversation with both of them in every place you find them-even the no choice conversations. You cannot view Synthesis as acceptable if you steer EDI toward full personhood. There's so much subtle dialog there that is fairly easy to miss if you don't keep going back and talking to them. Same thing with everyone. It's all there in the conversations, even just in ME3. Everyone can make all 3 choices abhorrent, based upon the type of Shepard you play. And the micro conversations with no choice are just as revealing as the ones with choices.
Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 01:53 .
#21184
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:49
darkway1
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.......I payed good money for that steak too.......they now expect me to pay extra for fries and garlic bread.......lol,sad.
Modifié par darkway1, 23 mai 2012 - 01:50 .
#21185
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:53
Voodoo-j
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And the waiter/waitress... you normally have is one of the best, this time is some young kid that has no clue what he is doing, when he takes your order he repeats it back wrong and walks away.
#21186
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:55
BlueStorm83
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--- AlienShagger has some good points. Listening to, and accepting, ANYONE'S opinion if a minor form of being "Indoctrinated." No news program actually reports the facts without adding their own spin. One station can say that Obama's brave new initiative to help people is being defeated by Republican greed. Another station can say that Conservatives sucessfully blocked a socialist plot to make hard working Americans have to pay for those who break the law. There are many many more stations, so I'm sure you're going to find a magical rainbow of spin between those two, and even EXCEEDING those two. They're all kinda true, they're all kinda lies.
--- Indoctrination, in the real world sense, is that you've heard a lie used so often and so convincingly that you believe it. A real world example is the statement "Separation of Church and State." That statement is not in the US Constitution. The WORDS "Separation" "Church" and "State" do not appear in any order in the same sentence in the Us Constitution. What the constitution actually says, as part of the first amendment, is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;". What that means is, plainly, Congress can't make, limit, or destroy any religion. The term "Separation of church and state" comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, reassuring them that they would never, NEVER have to change their own worship. Look the letter up, it's too long to quote, but it is WILDLY different from the current use that tries to keep any and all religion out of public places. But the American Public have heard the lie so many times that the majority of us have been "indoctrinated" into its current "meaning."
--- There are people in the world who BLOW THEMSELVES UP to kill others, not because that's what their God wants, but because they believe the LIES that ANOTHER PERSON told them about their God. If they sat down, read their Holy Book, and stopped listening to madmen who don't actually believe what they scream from their caves, they'd realize that the God they want to follow espouses things like mercy and compassion. Indoctrinated by hearing the same lie so often that it becomes part of who they are.
--- There doesn't have to be a conspiracy much of what happens "above" us to be false. There only need to be ****s who are only looking out for themselves. And it's pretty obvious that's overarchingly true.
--- Indoctrination, in the real world sense, is that you've heard a lie used so often and so convincingly that you believe it. A real world example is the statement "Separation of Church and State." That statement is not in the US Constitution. The WORDS "Separation" "Church" and "State" do not appear in any order in the same sentence in the Us Constitution. What the constitution actually says, as part of the first amendment, is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;". What that means is, plainly, Congress can't make, limit, or destroy any religion. The term "Separation of church and state" comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, reassuring them that they would never, NEVER have to change their own worship. Look the letter up, it's too long to quote, but it is WILDLY different from the current use that tries to keep any and all religion out of public places. But the American Public have heard the lie so many times that the majority of us have been "indoctrinated" into its current "meaning."
--- There are people in the world who BLOW THEMSELVES UP to kill others, not because that's what their God wants, but because they believe the LIES that ANOTHER PERSON told them about their God. If they sat down, read their Holy Book, and stopped listening to madmen who don't actually believe what they scream from their caves, they'd realize that the God they want to follow espouses things like mercy and compassion. Indoctrinated by hearing the same lie so often that it becomes part of who they are.
--- There doesn't have to be a conspiracy much of what happens "above" us to be false. There only need to be ****s who are only looking out for themselves. And it's pretty obvious that's overarchingly true.
#21187
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:56
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darkway1 wrote...
.......I payed good money for that steak too.......they now expect me to pay extra for fries and garlic bread.......lol,sad.
Well, with all due respect if you bought the day one DLC, you actually paid for a plate to have your steak served on. You are now being asked to pay for a glass of water and are being required to eat your meal at a table with people you don't know in order to get a knife and fork with which to eat your steak.
Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 01:56 .
#21188
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 01:58
darkway1
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3DandBeyond wrote...
Ok and now I just want to entertain people with this thought:
We all know the star kid scene changes how we've seen Shepard. I for one believe Shepard should be protesting like hell that the kid makes no sense and that s/he won't make any choice and all.
However, what I had forgotten is this. Shepard does protest this kid's created will rebel and destroy the creator logic. Just not at the end.
On Rannoch, (and I don't know if this depends on what Shepard does with the geth/quarian conflict), but...
Shepard fights and kills the big reaper (well fire from ship's in space kill it) and then Shepard talks to it. The thing says Shepard (and all people) can't understand its purpose and talks about the cycle and needing to kill organics to save them (circular logic, Shepard protests).
The reaper also says it is there to bring order from chaos, something the kid echoes later on. But at least one type of Shepard will tell the reaper that organics and synthetics do not always have to destroy each other. The reaper says the battle for Rannoch disproves that.
What is stupid in this is that they've seen what has gone on and then so must see what can happen next, but Shepard gets to the end of the game, the kid again repeats the stuff this dying reaper said and now Shepard just doesn't disagree with it.
What I mean is Shepard believed and protested, saying organics and synthetics didn't have to destroy each other BEFORE uniting the Quarian and Geth and BEFORE all the info on the help the Geth were giving-helping the Quarian get rid of their suits and repopulate and rebuild Rannoch. But AFTER Shepard sees all this, Shepard says nothing. This indicates that the person that wrote the ending did not know the full story arc-at least one possible story arc.
It's called "screwing up the ending".......Illusive man is all about contol......Shepard thinks he's mad......and yet one of the options at the end is contol.......the very thing the Illusive man wants,is what Shepard has tried to prevent....and then Shepard goes and picks contol (blue)????......no friggin sense.
#21189
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 02:01
darkway1
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3DandBeyond wrote...
darkway1 wrote...
.......I payed good money for that steak too.......they now expect me to pay extra for fries and garlic bread.......lol,sad.
Well, with all due respect if you bought the day one DLC, you actually paid for a plate to have your steak served on. You are now being asked to pay for a glass of water and are being required to eat your meal at a table with people you don't know in order to get a knife and fork with which to eat your steak.
..............I guess we won't be leaving a tip then.
#21190
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 02:08
Ben20530
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But I'm still waiting for the best steak, I'm convinced it's in the kitchen, always has been. But when will they serve it?
#21191
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 02:11
darkway1
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Ben20530 wrote...
But I'm still waiting for the best steak, I'm convinced it's in the kitchen, always has been. But when will they serve it?
No more steak for us,the next gen consoles are coming next year,if bioware is to produce another game the chances are it will be on a whole new format,with a fresh clean slate.
#21192
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 02:14
Ben20530
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But if they give me the steak I ordered, I will always come here for my steak! Whatever generation!
#21193
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 02:33
3DandBeyond
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@BlueStorm83,
I truly have no desire to get into politics here and that is my overriding point. I do not wish it to be purposely nor artificially inserted into a game either.
Yes, we can be hoodwinked by people with ulterior motives. It has been so forever and may appear more subtle today, but it is actually overtly subtle.
It's as old as the hills, the attempt to assert through subversion that a lie is true. It came into its own in the '60s in a truly mass marketing way. Read "The Hidden Persuaders", one of many books that outlined just how things are done using subliminal messaging to get you to do things or feel things.
I fully recognize that there are attempts even within ME3 to get you to part with your money and it is based upon perceived need-false need created in very subtle ways. Micro transactions are a part of it. If you play the MP and play a bronze mission, you get somewhere around 15000 credits toward store packs. The packs of course are often one time use items that at some point need to be re-filled. Well, 15000 credits doesn't get you the good stuff, so you either play another 20 minute game which might fail (often does because the server likes to kick people out or people leave or have no clue what they are doing or don't help) or you pay real money. The game actively tries through some really nuanced psychological trickery to get you to buy bullets.
I fully recognize that any purchase you make anywhere where you don't use just cash will get you on a list. In its most innocuous form this list is used to track buying trends. At its worst, it is used to track your buying trends. Companies hire psychologists to determine how to best get people to part with their money, how to trick them into doing exactly that which they say they'd never do.
And, this is not only done with companies they are obviously trying to sell you something. It's done by companies (media outlets) in order to get you to watch them or visit their sites, which keeps their revenue flowing.
This is evidenced in the use of Chobot in ME3. The most pernicious and abhorrent example of not only product placement but the buying of what at least superficially was supposed to be an independent "review" outlet, a supposed consumer advocate. For the record, Chobot's owners IGN have been doing gaming company promotion for a long time now. It's just that the veil has lifted with her placement within a game. The positive IGN review was bought and paid for.
This is something that's happening everywhere. A real big supposed tech guru at the New York Times has always been an Apple, Mac, and iPhone/iPad guy. He always hated Amazon and thus their kindle devices-wrote nasty articles about them. He now has his own "page" on Amazon, has started having a lot of Amazon/Kindle adds on his column's page and has since decided he just loves kindles. Bought and paid for.
And I know in politics it gets worse. Now even the superficial belief that elections are not bought and paid for is gone. Corporations are people (uh huh) and as such are allowed something even real people are not-they can give undisclosed, unlimited amounts of money to political causes with no problem. Yet, a true person can't give $5 without being asked who they work for and who is actually giving the money.
I know many things and the things I know may be disputed by others. I also know that true debate is dead, because people have formed opinions based on the opinions of others or those that want to assert a belief and their opinions are shouted at other people. Case in point, and again I am not trying to start a political debate-there were many seniors here in the US that were shouting that we need a smaller government, need to quit raising their taxes (that have gone down) and quit paying for all these government programs. And they were getting Social Security and Medicare.
I once say a comment on a youtube video about the health care debate. The guy was against any government program to use taxpayer dollars for those that didn't have health insurance. When someone said that meant people had to beg, put cans in grocery stores to get change, or something like that the guy disagreed. He said they could use medicaid or go to the emergency room for care. You can't argue with this lack of logic. He couldn't see that Medicaid was taxpayer money just as the person on Social Security/Medicare was not thinking that those are government programs. It happens on both sides of any argument today. There are slick people that are working to get people infighting rather than using their brains to realize that both sides are in it for themselves and that very few people on either side are actually in it for the common good. But, this has always been done.
It's actually one that I've heard that is used in Basic Training sometimes-for the good. It's getting people to act more than think so that they will go beyond that thinking part of the brain that says, "be afraid" or it's to change the mindset to get one to be afraid of something else more than what should really scare them.
There's always been thoughts on needing wars to "wag the dog", keeping people unsettled in their personal lives so they aren't paying attention to the other important issues of the day.
There's more, but again when I play a game I am playing a game. I remain aware and acknowledge when they are using day one DLC to get me to pay more. Everyone recognized the idiocy of that and a lot of us bought it. They count on this. And I know it. But that doesn't mean I just sit back and say the ending was awesome because it woke me up. No, I was awake all the time. I controlled what I bought. I have made stupid purchases, but I decided to be stupid. I didn't make every stupid purchase-I don't have ME avatars on my xbox. Ooh, a hoodie.
But all this is as old as consumerism itself. It's called suggestive selling. Grocery stores do it with samples. They have secret shoppers that grade stores on how well they suggestive sell. The biggest best example of it used to be, "do you want any fries with that?" McDonald's fries are their biggest drivers of profit-highest return. And every employee used to have to ask that question.
I have no illusions that a great many people who are given way too much of the public stage, use it to control a lot of things-or try to control.
I just am unwilling to accept that a game does and should use incomprehensible crap to assert all this in a 5 minute crapstorm ending and then cannot see someone calling this just great and well done. It was rushed and childish and anything but thoughty. In my opinion. If your thoughts on it work for you-great.
I truly have no desire to get into politics here and that is my overriding point. I do not wish it to be purposely nor artificially inserted into a game either.
Yes, we can be hoodwinked by people with ulterior motives. It has been so forever and may appear more subtle today, but it is actually overtly subtle.
It's as old as the hills, the attempt to assert through subversion that a lie is true. It came into its own in the '60s in a truly mass marketing way. Read "The Hidden Persuaders", one of many books that outlined just how things are done using subliminal messaging to get you to do things or feel things.
I fully recognize that there are attempts even within ME3 to get you to part with your money and it is based upon perceived need-false need created in very subtle ways. Micro transactions are a part of it. If you play the MP and play a bronze mission, you get somewhere around 15000 credits toward store packs. The packs of course are often one time use items that at some point need to be re-filled. Well, 15000 credits doesn't get you the good stuff, so you either play another 20 minute game which might fail (often does because the server likes to kick people out or people leave or have no clue what they are doing or don't help) or you pay real money. The game actively tries through some really nuanced psychological trickery to get you to buy bullets.
I fully recognize that any purchase you make anywhere where you don't use just cash will get you on a list. In its most innocuous form this list is used to track buying trends. At its worst, it is used to track your buying trends. Companies hire psychologists to determine how to best get people to part with their money, how to trick them into doing exactly that which they say they'd never do.
And, this is not only done with companies they are obviously trying to sell you something. It's done by companies (media outlets) in order to get you to watch them or visit their sites, which keeps their revenue flowing.
This is evidenced in the use of Chobot in ME3. The most pernicious and abhorrent example of not only product placement but the buying of what at least superficially was supposed to be an independent "review" outlet, a supposed consumer advocate. For the record, Chobot's owners IGN have been doing gaming company promotion for a long time now. It's just that the veil has lifted with her placement within a game. The positive IGN review was bought and paid for.
This is something that's happening everywhere. A real big supposed tech guru at the New York Times has always been an Apple, Mac, and iPhone/iPad guy. He always hated Amazon and thus their kindle devices-wrote nasty articles about them. He now has his own "page" on Amazon, has started having a lot of Amazon/Kindle adds on his column's page and has since decided he just loves kindles. Bought and paid for.
And I know in politics it gets worse. Now even the superficial belief that elections are not bought and paid for is gone. Corporations are people (uh huh) and as such are allowed something even real people are not-they can give undisclosed, unlimited amounts of money to political causes with no problem. Yet, a true person can't give $5 without being asked who they work for and who is actually giving the money.
I know many things and the things I know may be disputed by others. I also know that true debate is dead, because people have formed opinions based on the opinions of others or those that want to assert a belief and their opinions are shouted at other people. Case in point, and again I am not trying to start a political debate-there were many seniors here in the US that were shouting that we need a smaller government, need to quit raising their taxes (that have gone down) and quit paying for all these government programs. And they were getting Social Security and Medicare.
I once say a comment on a youtube video about the health care debate. The guy was against any government program to use taxpayer dollars for those that didn't have health insurance. When someone said that meant people had to beg, put cans in grocery stores to get change, or something like that the guy disagreed. He said they could use medicaid or go to the emergency room for care. You can't argue with this lack of logic. He couldn't see that Medicaid was taxpayer money just as the person on Social Security/Medicare was not thinking that those are government programs. It happens on both sides of any argument today. There are slick people that are working to get people infighting rather than using their brains to realize that both sides are in it for themselves and that very few people on either side are actually in it for the common good. But, this has always been done.
It's actually one that I've heard that is used in Basic Training sometimes-for the good. It's getting people to act more than think so that they will go beyond that thinking part of the brain that says, "be afraid" or it's to change the mindset to get one to be afraid of something else more than what should really scare them.
There's always been thoughts on needing wars to "wag the dog", keeping people unsettled in their personal lives so they aren't paying attention to the other important issues of the day.
There's more, but again when I play a game I am playing a game. I remain aware and acknowledge when they are using day one DLC to get me to pay more. Everyone recognized the idiocy of that and a lot of us bought it. They count on this. And I know it. But that doesn't mean I just sit back and say the ending was awesome because it woke me up. No, I was awake all the time. I controlled what I bought. I have made stupid purchases, but I decided to be stupid. I didn't make every stupid purchase-I don't have ME avatars on my xbox. Ooh, a hoodie.
But all this is as old as consumerism itself. It's called suggestive selling. Grocery stores do it with samples. They have secret shoppers that grade stores on how well they suggestive sell. The biggest best example of it used to be, "do you want any fries with that?" McDonald's fries are their biggest drivers of profit-highest return. And every employee used to have to ask that question.
I have no illusions that a great many people who are given way too much of the public stage, use it to control a lot of things-or try to control.
I just am unwilling to accept that a game does and should use incomprehensible crap to assert all this in a 5 minute crapstorm ending and then cannot see someone calling this just great and well done. It was rushed and childish and anything but thoughty. In my opinion. If your thoughts on it work for you-great.
Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 02:47 .
#21194
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 02:35
Benchpress610
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- Members
- 823 messages
Well said sir...!!!BlueStorm83 wrote...
--- AlienShagger has some good points. Listening to, and accepting, ANYONE'S opinion if a minor form of being "Indoctrinated." No news program actually reports the facts without adding their own spin. One station can say that Obama's brave new initiative to help people is being defeated by Republican greed. Another station can say that Conservatives sucessfully blocked a socialist plot to make hard working Americans have to pay for those who break the law. There are many many more stations, so I'm sure you're going to find a magical rainbow of spin between those two, and even EXCEEDING those two. They're all kinda true, they're all kinda lies.
--- Indoctrination, in the real world sense, is that you've heard a lie used so often and so convincingly that you believe it. A real world example is the statement "Separation of Church and State." That statement is not in the US Constitution. The WORDS "Separation" "Church" and "State" do not appear in any order in the same sentence in the Us Constitution. What the constitution actually says, as part of the first amendment, is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;". What that means is, plainly, Congress can't make, limit, or destroy any religion. The term "Separation of church and state" comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, reassuring them that they would never, NEVER have to change their own worship. Look the letter up, it's too long to quote, but it is WILDLY different from the current use that tries to keep any and all religion out of public places. But the American Public have heard the lie so many times that the majority of us have been "indoctrinated" into its current "meaning."
--- There are people in the world who BLOW THEMSELVES UP to kill others, not because that's what their God wants, but because they believe the LIES that ANOTHER PERSON told them about their God. If they sat down, read their Holy Book, and stopped listening to madmen who don't actually believe what they scream from their caves, they'd realize that the God they want to follow espouses things like mercy and compassion. Indoctrinated by hearing the same lie so often that it becomes part of who they are.
--- There doesn't have to be a conspiracy much of what happens "above" us to be false. There only need to be ****s who are only looking out for themselves. And it's pretty obvious that's overarchingly true.
#21195
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 02:36
darkway1
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- Members
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Ben20530 wrote...
But if they give me the steak I ordered, I will always come here for my steak! Whatever generation!
...........I think they'd rather spend all the money on the restaurant,the fancy menu,the promotions etc.....they forgot all about ordering steaks for the launch day so at the last minute they rustled up some pasta salad........it's not what you wanted but hey-ho,what you gonna do about it?
#21196
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 02:44
3DandBeyond
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- Members
- 7 579 messages
darkway1 wrote...
It's called "screwing up the ending".......Illusive man is all about contol......Shepard thinks he's mad......and yet one of the options at the end is contol.......the very thing the Illusive man wants,is what Shepard has tried to prevent....and then Shepard goes and picks contol (blue)????......no friggin sense.
Exactly, Saren wanted control but Sovereign said it wasn't possible because the reapers already controlled him. Once Saren was fully indoctrinated, he espoused belief in synthesis.
TIM wanted control, but was being controlled. He'd been indoctrinate some time ago and as time went on he was continually performing or having people perform more and more barbaric and warped experiments into creating synthesis. Even his own implants, his Cerberus "husks", the info from Brynn when you rescue the scientists bears this out.
Control and Synthesis seemed to go hand in hand with all the people Shepard just hated. It seemed the reapers sought control in order to accomplish synthesis.
And then destroy of course is also a non-starter for my Shepard that got the geth and quarian and EDI and Joker together. I'd tell Hackett to destroy the crucible at the point I fully understood that these were the choices I had. I'd tell Hackett to have everyone focus fire on individual reapers one by one as best they can to try and pick them off, because the frickin' game also tells me this...
In the tech room, when I look at my EMS, it says contradictory things. On the one hand (and this is on my loading screen) I am told my forces are winning in key areas and on my EMS screen I am told my odds are even. Those are better chances than picking anything the kid says I can pick.
But, there's even one part where Hackett contradicts himself. There's on point when in vid conference Shepard asks something (about some of the assets) and Hackett says they are pushing the reapers back and then when asked about others, he refers to the same species as being beaten badly by the reapers. I can't remember which group (krogan, salarian, turian, geth, quarian) he was talking about, but it was the same group - pushing back, but then being beaten badly. At this point sacrificial suicide started to sound good.
#21197
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 03:02
jpoppawusc
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- Members
- 17 messages
This is the risk that BioWare took to bring thought-provoking RPG subject matter to mainstream audiences. There are no plot holes in the ending. All three options, and their multiple variations, all make sense with the events and lore of the series. The Catalyst is not some sort of galactic god; it's just the culmination of thousands of synthetic civilizations that have evolved and combined over millions of years and have logically decided on a way to keep their future creators from being eliminated permanently (thus allowing organic life to persist while continuously adding to the immortal collective of synthetics). The Indoctrination Theory is a way for people to explain away an ending that they don't understand. And the constant appearance of the Catalyst boy is just a mental image that Shepard has subconsciously crafted for himself/herself as he/she comes into full awareness of the same knowledge that the Catalyst represents - that ultimate sacfrice and change are necessary to preserve life past the current cycle.
I never expected or wanted Shepard's trilogy to be tied up with a neat little bow. All of the endings require contemplation, and the choices you've made throught the series make a huge difference in how you experience, perceive, and interpret the conclusion. Mass Effect 3 is, for all intents and purposes, a 40 to 50-hour ending sequence, and I'm tired of hearing people say that the payoff wasn't high enough. There's an ending where Shepard lives, an ending where Shepard dies, and an ending where Shepard exhalts all life to a new pinnacle of evolution while he/she becomes an integrated part of everything (not really dead or alive, but carried on as a messiah for all who remain). Crew members live and die by the choices we make at the end. I can think of no more fitting, complete, or satisfying conclusion for the trilogy.
If BioWare adds more context to the ending in the upcoming DLC, that's all well and good, but they've already stated that they're not changing or canonizing it. Ultimately, all of the answers that they could/will provide are already there... it just requires a little thought and personal reflection to see the truth in what they've crafted. Personally, I love discussing it with friends as-is, and when I beat the game, I was absolutely astonished at how much negative press the ending had received, since I was truly impressed with the high degree of intelligence that BioWare had infused into its conclusion.
Gamers wine about everything, yet BioWare broke conventions by respecting and trusting the intelligence of its players by allowing some elements to be open for interpretation. Clearly, that was an unpopular decision.
I never expected or wanted Shepard's trilogy to be tied up with a neat little bow. All of the endings require contemplation, and the choices you've made throught the series make a huge difference in how you experience, perceive, and interpret the conclusion. Mass Effect 3 is, for all intents and purposes, a 40 to 50-hour ending sequence, and I'm tired of hearing people say that the payoff wasn't high enough. There's an ending where Shepard lives, an ending where Shepard dies, and an ending where Shepard exhalts all life to a new pinnacle of evolution while he/she becomes an integrated part of everything (not really dead or alive, but carried on as a messiah for all who remain). Crew members live and die by the choices we make at the end. I can think of no more fitting, complete, or satisfying conclusion for the trilogy.
If BioWare adds more context to the ending in the upcoming DLC, that's all well and good, but they've already stated that they're not changing or canonizing it. Ultimately, all of the answers that they could/will provide are already there... it just requires a little thought and personal reflection to see the truth in what they've crafted. Personally, I love discussing it with friends as-is, and when I beat the game, I was absolutely astonished at how much negative press the ending had received, since I was truly impressed with the high degree of intelligence that BioWare had infused into its conclusion.
Gamers wine about everything, yet BioWare broke conventions by respecting and trusting the intelligence of its players by allowing some elements to be open for interpretation. Clearly, that was an unpopular decision.
#21198
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 03:15
AlienShagger
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- Members
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Benchpress610 wrote...
Well said sir...!!!BlueStorm83 wrote...
--- AlienShagger has some good points. ...
Crap... republicans/libertarians agree with me
#21199
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 03:18
darkway1
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Yet again a post that points out that those who do not appreciate the ending haven't got the intelligence to understand it or except it.
The reason why the ending is so poor is because it introduces to many new elements,it's poorly written,poorly handled and poorly explained.
For example.... In the end the relay's don't just enable space travel any more but for some reason they now have the god like powers to fuse organic and synthetic life..............that's no different to the old Batman series, Batman does not get burnt by larva because he has anti larva pills in his batbelt.
The reason why the ending is so poor is because it introduces to many new elements,it's poorly written,poorly handled and poorly explained.
For example.... In the end the relay's don't just enable space travel any more but for some reason they now have the god like powers to fuse organic and synthetic life..............that's no different to the old Batman series, Batman does not get burnt by larva because he has anti larva pills in his batbelt.
Modifié par darkway1, 23 mai 2012 - 03:19 .
#21200
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 03:20
AlienShagger
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- Members
- 43 messages
What kind of larva causes burn damage?darkway1 wrote...
Yet again a post that points out that those who do not appreciate the ending haven't got the intelligence to understand it or except it.
The reason why the ending is so poor is because it introduces to many new elements,it's poorly written,poorly handled and poorly explained.
For example.... In the end the relay's don't just enable space travel any more but for some reason they now have the god like powers to fuse organic and synthetic life..............that's no different to the old Batman series, Batman does not get burnt by larva because he has anti larva pills in his batbelt.
