23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Archonsg]

You know what is another screw up, the fact that I don't even have to do ANY side quests to get the "best" possible ending, having played MP to hell, while those who don't or more importantly, can't play MP, are penalized.

Why? My current N7 asset is almost 5000 ems, that's right, 5000, (and counting as I continue to play MP) on its own. That is just wrong.

Modifié par Archonsg, 23 mai 2012 - 06:57 .

[3DandBeyond]

jpoppawusc wrote...


First, there were at least 16 variations of the 3 primary endings.  BioWare never said how different they would be, and personally, I get a drastically different impression from each, despite the seemingly small differences in cinematics.  I don't expect everyone to see it the same way.

Actually, yes they did.  They said it would be like no two endings would be the same (from one player to another).  They said they'd be vastly different.

The cinematics are shockingly similar and exceedingly cheap.

There are 16 (?) endings that are more alike then they are different.


For your edification I will re-post what you will not read.

Interview with Casey Hudson...

www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 06:30 .

[LiarasShield]

jpoppawusc wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

That our choices would affect the endings that we'd get 16 potentially different endings and how we wouldn't get a a bc ending which we did ultimately get and no our actions don't really change or alter the same 3 endings we get at the end


And no we don't know if shepard dies cause a small breath and then cut to credits means shepard could still easily die on earth

And your love interest and loyal crew abandoning the fleets and going ftl or using the relays before they explode and leaving us all to potentially die at the reapers hand or slowly starve to death in space is not ****ing cool

We got screwed over Li wise because he or she doesn't mourn our loss or even show care that we may have died just ended up on a stranded planet and probably repopulating a jungle planet with joker or some other male or female of the crew

AND THE GIANT CLIFF HANGER IS OUR FORCES BEING TRAPT IN SPACE OTHER THEN BEING LIED TO IN BIOWARES INTERVIEWS BUT A COMPLETE CLIFF HANGER WHERE ALL OUR FORCES ARE TRAPT IN OUR DAMAGED SOLAR SYSTEM

NOT ONLY DOES SHEPARD GIVE INTO THE THE CATALYSTS THE REAPERS CREATOR BUT WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THE SACRIFICE IF EVERYBODY YOU WERE TRYING TO SAVE EITHER DIE OR NEVER GO HOME THEIR WOULDN"T BE A POINT WOULD THERE?

First, there were at least 16 variations of the 3 primary endings.  BioWare never said how different they would be, and personally, I get a drastically different impression from each, despite the seemingly small differences in cinematics.  I don't expect everyone to see it the same way.

Why would BioWare make a point of showing Shepard breathe in only one ending if he/she was only going to die moments later?  Be serious.

The crew did what it needed to survive.  They would logically hope to regroup in whatever unexpected aftermath would follow.  They have no reason to believe that Shepard or Anderson are still alive until they see the final result of the blast, something they only experienced after their initial escape and subsequent separation from Earth.

Liara was my first Shepard's love interest (out of seven total variants), and I didn't get the same impression.  Instead, I was quite satisfied by events with her leading into the final conflict.  And what do you mean, she didn't mourn the loss of Shepard?  We only see a brief two seconds of Liara in the ending scene, and I don't expect those two seconds to be spent crying her eyes out, especially since Liara has been through this loss before.  And this time, she likely felt it coming.  Then again, she could also be carrying Shepard's child.

And humans being stranded on Earth sounds like a silly complaint, doesn't it?

Shepard does not give into the Catalyst.  The Catalyst is changed by the introduction of the Crucible and its organic parameters, and this opens possibilities that were never an option in previous Reaper cycles.  And by the way, Reapers and the Catalyst are both synthetic, and in many ways, the Reapers are part of the Catalyst.  Thus, they would not "rebel against their creators".

No one knows what could happen after the final scene.  Regardless of the final choice, the people who survive still retain more knowledge than any previous cycle, so it wouldn't take thousands of years to get back into space.  It's time to rebuild for a new future, and just the fact that a few people are separated should be little reason for concern.  Maybe they won't make it back to Earth in their lifetimes, but especially in the case of synthesis, who knows how long a newly synthesized human could live?  Those are not answers that BioWare needs to explain, as it would just be conjecture.

Still it is a not a victory ending and why would I think shepard lived in 5 second cut to credits when in most of the three endings he or she died how about you be real and think about that and how would shepard survive the explosion of the crucible and the high burns from earths atmosphere during reentry when earth does have oxygen unlike acheera and would burn up shepards body before landing back on earth and if you try to use space magic as a answer you'll lose any decent respect of a civilized arguement with me

Control does not work because no one has ever been able to control the reapers before and have usually been indoctrinated or think they have been in control when they do not and better yet how can shepard control the reapers if she or he is dead and that his or her body is completely destroyed

Synthesis wouldn't work because the destruction of individuality would be a frown or a big disdain to the entire franchise and most of the final game because it was about brining distinct races and or people to accomplish a certain goal if everybody is the same or everyone is forced to be half machine or half organic against their will that is not a good ending because shepard is becoming a bigger monster or dictator then even the catalyst was

Destroy is the only option that makes even a bit of logical sense and follow what shepard has been trying to do from day one but after saving the geth and the quarians and then having them all be destroyed since the red color explosion supposedly destroys all thing synthetic or synthetics functions

Also don't forget the synthetic implants shepard has within his or her own body

The Catalyst alone is the one who created and controls the reapers that has been destroying organic life for aeons and uses twisted logic in order to think that he is infact saving them when he is only destroying them instead of using the reapers to destroy the advanced synthetics that may potentially kill us they use their reaper control to have the geth fight the quarians and us because they see the geth as inferior synthetics or life forms

The catalyst forces or tells what should be shepards options and in 2 out of the three endings the reapers live and in all the endings our forces are trapt in a damaged solar system by the reapers

The catalyst isn't you friend he is the main villian who created the monster we are fighting he isn't the hero or the good guy

It be like a man with a gun to your head saying I'm going to save you or protect you but if hes aiming that gun to my head it really tells me that he is going to shoot me or kill

How You think that is ok really takes the cake for me

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...

You know what is another screw up, the fact that I don't even have to do ANY side quests to get the "best" possible ending, having played MP to hell, while those who don't or more importantly, can't play MP, are penalized.

Why? My current N7 asset is almost 5000 ems, that's right, 5000, (and counting as I continue to play MP) own its own. That is just wrong.

That's what I was trying to say but you say it better.  You can do next to nothing in the "main" game and still get the "best" ending.  And if you really try and do everything in the "main" game you cannot get the "best" ending if you do not play multiplayer.

[sdinc009]

jpoppawusc wrote...

sdinc009 wrote...

No plot holes!? Really!? Then why was Joker in a relay jump befoere the energy blast? Why is Shepard so complacent with what is now (for no comprehecible reason) the new antagonist? Why would Shepard choose Control when that was the goal of the secondary antagonist (Illusive Man) all along? Why would Shepard choose Synthesis when that is the goal of the main antagonist (the Reapers)? Why would Shepard choose Destroy even though that's the primary goal of the entire series the genocidal consquence is directly in conflict with the character regardless of paragon or renegade. There's some plot holes for you

Q:  "Then why was Joker in a relay jump befoere the energy blast?"
A:  Between the time that Shepard and the forward team went down trying to reach the Citadel beam, to the time he/she finally speaks to Hackett about the Crucible activation, Sovereign-class Reapers are already descending on the battlefield.  Everyone assumes that Shepard is dead during that time.  With everything going bad, it is Joker's responsibility to pick up as many survivors as he can and head out of the Sol system.  With no reason to doubt that his friends are on the way to total eradication, Joker is well on his way to the Charon Relay before the blast catches up to them.

Q:  "Why is Shepard so complacent with what is now (for no comprehecible reason) the new antagonist?"
A:  Shepard is close to bleeding out, and he/she's been seeing the boy in his/her head for months.  Besides, what choice does he/she really have but to listen and believe, since the Crucible didn't operate like the weapon everyone assumed it to be.

Q:  "Why would Shepard choose Control when that was the goal of the secondary antagonist (Illusive Man) all along?"
A:  Intent.  The Illusive Man has already displayed that his methods of control come at too high of a cost for humanity.  Shepard's only goal in choosing Control would be to save as many people as possible while sacrificing himself/herself and forcing the Reapers to withdraw.  It's also the closest he/she can hope to come to restoring the galaxy to its previous state, without genocide or the unknown of synthesis.

Q:  "Why would Shepard choose Synthesis when that is the goal of the main antagonist (the Reapers)?"
A:  The Reapers' goal is assimilation into themselves as a means of preservation.  True synthesis is not possible without the operational parameters developed by synthetics in the Citadel (their pinnacle of advancement) and by organics in the Crucible (their pinnacle of advancement designed to supplement the Citadel's existing capabilities) joining in a complete method of manipulating dark matter to benefit both sides.  Shepard recognizes this as a new opportunity that is critically different from the Reaper cycle, which did not take organic desire for individuality and free will into account.

Q:  "Why would Shepard choose Destroy even though that's the primary goal of the entire series the genocidal consquence is directly in conflict with the character regardless of paragon or renegade?"
A:  The Reapers have been committing genocide for millions of years.  I'm sure that some versions of Shepard would gladly make an exception to the no-genocide rule if it meant taking down the Reapers.  Shepard would not have been able to predict that the Crucible's genocide against the Reapers would include all synthetic existence, but at the point of such desperation, he/she may have simply carried out the plan that he/she, Anderson, and Hackett had already initiated.  It wouldn't be seen as simple genocide, but a way to cut their losses in the face of annihiliation.  That type of Shepard would have disregarded Control because it was the Illusive Man's plan, and he/she would have also disregarded Synthesis because it held too many unknowns, without a way for Shepard to see things through in the aftermath.
 
So, in my opinion, there are no plot holes.

I respect your opinion, but I need to point out that every answer you have provided is solely based on speculations and assumptions. None of that is grounded in fact that can be seen in the ending. It was stated many times during the story that this was the final battle so Joker retreating for ANY reason is illogical. "Bleeding out" as an explanation for Shepard's complacency is not unreasonable, but fairly weak writing. Want more plot holes? Where did TIM get the power to control people? That has never been seen before not even by Saren. In many instances the squad mates that were with Shepard in the Conduit run walk out of the Normandy crash, how did they get there? The prefect Destroy ending has Shepard taking a gasping breath, but didn't the Catalyst just say I would die because I'm part organic? What the the Quarians and people with Biotic implants, will they die too? The codex says they're part synthetic. Shepard has always questioned everything no matter how trivial it was he/she always had to get as much input as possible in order to properly weigh the outcome, so why is there no questions? In many playthroughs Shepard brokers peace between the Geth and Quarian which completely invalidates the circular logic of the Catalyst so ??? If you would like to answer feel free, but please do so with facts or codex references not speculation and assumptions.

[LiarasShield]

Still it is a not a victory ending and why would I think shepard lived in 5 second cut to credits when in most of the three endings he or she died how about you be real and think about that and how would shepard survive the explosion of the crucible and the high burns from earths atmosphere during reentry when earth does have oxygen unlike acheera and would burn up shepards body before landing back on earth and if you try to use space magic as a answer you'll lose any decent respect of a civilized arguement with me

Control does not work because no one has ever been able to control the reapers before and have usually been indoctrinated or think they have been in control when they do not and better yet how can shepard control the reapers if she or he is dead and that his or her body is completely destroyed

Synthesis wouldn't work because the destruction of individuality would be a frown or a big disdain to the entire franchise and most of the final game because it was about brining distinct races and or people to accomplish a certain goal if everybody is the same or everyone is forced to be half machine or half organic against their will that is not a good ending because shepard is becoming a bigger monster or dictator then even the catalyst was

Destroy is the only option that makes even a bit of logical sense and follow what shepard has been trying to do from day one but after saving the geth and the quarians and then having them all be destroyed since the red color explosion supposedly destroys all thing synthetic or synthetics functions

Also don't forget the synthetic implants shepard has within his or her own body

The Catalyst alone is the one who created and controls the reapers that has been destroying organic life for aeons and uses twisted logic in order to think that he is infact saving them when he is only destroying them instead of using the reapers to destroy the advanced synthetics that may potentially kill us they use their reaper control to have the geth fight the quarians and us because they see the geth as inferior synthetics or life forms

The catalyst forces or tells what should be shepards options and in 2 out of the three endings the reapers live and in all the endings our forces are trapt in a damaged solar system by the reapers

The catalyst isn't you friend he is the main villian who created the monster we are fighting he isn't the hero or the good guy

It be like a man with a gun to your head saying I'm going to save you or protect you but if hes aiming that gun to my head it really tells me that he is going to shoot me or kill

How You think that is ok really takes the cake for me

And not only humans were trapt around our nearly dieing earth and our solar system or did you forget the turians, asari, krogan, geth and Quarians?

[3DandBeyond]

16 endings are really 6 endings.




IGN Chobot's boss, says there are 7 and also shows a video of only 6.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 06:47 .

[jpoppawusc]

AlienShagger wrote...

Your theory makes no sense. The global synthesis cumshot is just ludicrous. Shepard surviving the explosion on the Citadel is just not an option, without another Lazarus project. And the accident of Joker plus your love interest surviving by crashlanding on some accidentally inhabitable planet, WITH one of the squad members that was just blasted together with you on the way to the beam?

That stuff is something I can pull out of my ass in 10 seconds of brainstorming - which is exactly what Shepard is doing. He is not conscious.

Synthesis makes as much sense as science fiction should make.  It is a combination of organic and synthetic technologies at their highest, with the ability to use dark matter manipulation on a molecular level.  It equally benefits both contributing civilizations.

Shepard didn't have implants when the original Normandy was destroyed.  He/she does now, and even if those implants had been deactivated by the Crucible blast, their effects on Shepard's enhanced body wouldn't just fade immediately.  It even takes time for humans to get rid of a cold.  Besides, the Citadel has a lot more bulk and sustainable wreckage that would survive the descent; Normandy's just a single high-tech cruiser.

Unless you saw your teammates lying dead in front of you as you were slowly walking towards the Citadel beam, they weren't there.  Unless your total military strength was too low, your team members held back and defended the position while Shepard and Hammer charged to the beam.  If they weren't lying dead on the ground, they would have likely boarded the Normandy to escape Harbinger.

I seriously doubt that Joker made an uncalculated jump through a relay to end up on a random inhabitable planet.  He just had a conversation with Shepard about Eden Prime and the irony of it all coming full circle back to Earth.  With it fresh on his mind, and knowing there was little Reaper presence there, I am pretty sure that "accidentally inhabitable planet" was actually Eden Prime.  Even the skyline and topography look the same.

Modifié par jpoppawusc, 23 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[LiarasShield]

My god shepard took the full explosion from the tank in destroy and then survivng a fall from the crucible pluse atmospheric reentry in the destroy ending plus synthetics implants that are in his or her body he or she would be dead and how shepard becomes even a worser dictator then the catalyst by forcing everyone to be the same to be half machine and organic no no no not accept and doesn't make sense since once again this series was about uniting different beings to accomplish a goal

Modifié par LiarasShield, 23 mai 2012 - 06:43 .

[LiarasShield]

Their is no way shepard would've survived at least in me2 shepards body just died from lack of oxygen and their wasn't any oxygen to cause friction to shepards body on acheera but it is a completely different story here

After shepard takes a explosion to the face said red explosion destroys the synthetic implants within his or her body and then the heat from the oxygen causing friction to shepards body from atmospheric reentrance I'm sorry even in the brightist hopes of space and calore that wouldn't really be enough to explain shepard really surviving

Modifié par LiarasShield, 23 mai 2012 - 06:48 .

[jpoppawusc]

I'm sorry, I just can't spend any more time trying to convince an entire forum thread of the endings' legitimacy. I don't expect everyone to be happy about the ending, and I like the fact that it caused some controversy since it proves people still give a crap. I never heard people talk about Gears of War 3 or Halo 3 after they supposedly ended, since most of the "fans" were tired of the franchises and no longer invested in their characters. I am satisfied by the endings, and I hope that my last few posts have illustrated that I have given more thought to it than simply being a so-called "apologist". In reality, I was prepared to hate the ending, given all of the negative press, but after experiencing it multiple times for myself, I feel quite the opposite.

[sdinc009]

jpoppawusc wrote...

We got closure. We got enough context to explain almost every question we may have. We know if Shepard lives or dies, and we know what happens to his/her love interest. Our choices throughout the series played a huge role in how each of those endings would be viewed, and the final choice reflected the same grey dynamic that we've dealt with for more than 150 hours. What more did BioWare promise us, exactly?

Closure? What!? Where is there closure? If anything the ending creates more unanswered questions than it answers. We know Shepard dies in 2 of the endings, but we don't REALLY know if he/she lives in perfect destroy ending. Who's to say that it's not just some random N7 soldier taking a breath? The Mass Effect series has never been a grey dynamic. It has contrast and depth with various choices creating multiple outcomes. Not pick your favorite color. And take a look at the many links to the pre-launch quotes that specify what Bioware promised. Those quotes had the Better Business Bureau state that Bioware technically is guilty of False Advertising.

[Oside 38]

Please read this bioware...

Well, the whole game in general was amazing, the way your characters died was amazing like mordin, thane, and legion. Their death was meaningful, so you guys did an excellent job on it. Now i have to say, my favorite characters were garrus and liara. They absolutely were the coolest because they were always with you and supporting you.
For the romance partners, again, liara was the best, i saw both ashley and mirandas romance, and they suck, in my opinion. They werent meaningful. But you did justice for liara, so that was nice.

Now, for the endings, i find them alright, they are fine. I mean, if the indoctrination theory is correct and it was on purpose, man, that was pretty awesome, and you should keep it. It was very well done. And if you didnt do it on purpose, who cares, take credit for it, because it was amazing.
All i ask for the ending of ME3 extended would be to, like most people would like, to see closure to everyone around you, your friends, partner, and the species you affected. Now you dont have to show what will happen in the rest of their lives, but tell us their plans.
You can even do something like this for shepard to survive, you can make it that the dream he had was just to decide weather he actually lives or dies. You can make it like this, if shepard wakes up, he gets up and destroys the reapers, making him a hero. Or you can make that if you had enough war assets and stuff, the army you brought together would finish the job for you so the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy saved, and the last decision would be to decide weather shepard dies along with the reapers since he is indoctrinated or weather he is able to wake up and still be the person he is. Shepard (in my opinion) is a hero already, he has done enough, the ending just shows weather he was able to prepare enough for everyone else to finish the job and the last struggle was just so shepard can survive these events.

Now for the species. You can do something like the ending of halo 3, where you see humans planning on building once again and having allegiances with the elites, a shaking one at that but at least you know they are both going their separate ways already with a plan on the future, enough for us to fill in the blanks.
Now for squad mates, you can do something simple. Have them all in their places, or have scenes where they go back home and start rebuilding their worlds. An example would be tales of symphonia, the first one. At the end, you see your party members back in their countries or villages talking about what they are going to start doing and what they need to do and how the world would change because of the events that transpired. Something like that, where we have an idea in where they are going to be headed.
Now for the last thing it would be like what liara said. Maybe a scene where you find shepard finally able to relax again with his romance partner and finally have a good ending for him for all his hard work. Again nothing to complicated, but able to see him enjoy the fruits of his labor and struggle, and finally be happy with whoever the player chose to be with at the end.

For me, these would be a great ending, seeing the army shepard brought together finish the reapers, and it depends on how well you did, then see how species would react and see their plans now that the war is over, see if they make new alliances or not, or what they could do, then see your friends and team members go out and finally live their lives the way they want to, see them alive and well, and then if the player decides to allow shepard to survive the attempt of indoctrination then see him with his romance partner with a nice happy ending.

Please Bioware, the mass effect series has been my personal favorite and also the same for many people. Yet there are others who would like it to be their favorite but cannot be because of the ending. Please, do this series justice, give it the ending the characters in the universe deserve, give it the ending we the fans deserve, give it the ending you as the awesome team of bioware deserve to make for it! You can do it, you made awesome games the last half a decade, you made awesome stories, characters, scenarios, events, awesome everything! So finish this right! Finish this game the way it should finish! I thank you.

[Voodoo-j]

jpoppawusc wrote...

AlienShagger wrote...

Your theory makes no sense. The global synthesis cumshot is just ludicrous. Shepard surviving the explosion on the Citadel is just not an option, without another Lazarus project. And the accident of Joker plus your love interest surviving by crashlanding on some accidentally inhabitable planet, WITH one of the squad members that was just blasted together with you on the way to the beam?

That stuff is something I can pull out of my ass in 10 seconds of brainstorming - which is exactly what Shepard is doing. He is not conscious.

Synthesis makes as much sense as science fiction should make.  It is a combination of organic and synthetic technologies at their highest, with the ability to use dark matter manipulation on a molecular level.  It equally benefits both contributing civilizations.

Shepard didn't have implants when the original Normandy was destroyed.  He/she does now, and even if those implants had been deactivated by the Crucible blast, their effects on Shepard's enhanced body wouldn't just fade immediately.  It even takes time for humans to get rid of a cold.  Besides, the Citadel has a lot more bulk and sustainable wreckage that would survive the descent; Normandy's just a single high-tech cruiser.

Unless you saw your teammates lying dead in front of you as you were slowly walking towards the Citadel beam, they weren't there.  Unless your total military strength was too low, your team members held back and defended the position while Shepard and Hammer charged to the beam.  If they weren't lying dead on the ground, they would have likely boarded the Normandy to escape Harbinger.

I seriously doubt that Joker made an uncalculated jump through a relay to end up on a random inhabitable planet.  He just had a conversation with Shepard about Eden Prime and the irony of it all coming full circle back to Earth.  With it fresh on his mind, and knowing there was little Reaper presence there, I am pretty sure that "accidentally inhabitable planet" was actually Eden Prime.  Even the skyline and topography look the same.

I see holo kid - your arguments are invalid.

btw.. Eden Prime has no moons.
http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Eden_Prime

[sdinc009]

jpoppawusc wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Still their are plot holes the created don't always destroy or rebel against their creator otherwise the reapers would've attacked or destroyed the catalyst and the geth wouldn't help the quarians rebuild rannoch when they're free from reaper control

And shepard giving into the enemy in the first place wether bleeding to death or not is still not really acceptable to me unless harbingers beam ****ed shepards brain as well besides making shepard really bloody

The Catalyst and Reapers would say that, given enough time, Quarians and Geth would find another reason to take up arms against one another.  The Geth would have been impossible to destroy without unifying factors of the Reaper invasion, but there's no reason to think that the Geth would not have eventually eliminated the Quarians if they ever tried to retake their homeworld (with or without Reaper circumstances).  Also, a cease-fire was only made possible by the same Reaper circumstances, but even if all Reapers were eradicated, I doubt the peace would have lasted.  Just because it logically made sense to cooperate in the face of mutual annihilation doesn't mean a centuries-old conflict would've been completely put to bed, ya know?

Again, you're speculating and not basing any of this on facts. Prior to the Reapers appearing on the scene in ME 1 the Geth stayed in the Perseus Veil not bothering anyone. It wasn't until the Reapers corruption that they became a threat to the Galactic community and that was only the Heretic ones. And are you forgetting about Legion? We worked with Legion in ME 2 and 3

[3DandBeyond]

sdinc009 wrote...

jpoppawusc wrote...

We got closure. We got enough context to explain almost every question we may have. We know if Shepard lives or dies, and we know what happens to his/her love interest. Our choices throughout the series played a huge role in how each of those endings would be viewed, and the final choice reflected the same grey dynamic that we've dealt with for more than 150 hours. What more did BioWare promise us, exactly?

Closure? What!? Where is there closure? If anything the ending creates more unanswered questions than it answers. We know Shepard dies in 2 of the endings, but we don't REALLY know if he/she lives in perfect destroy ending. Who's to say that it's not just some random N7 soldier taking a breath? The Mass Effect series has never been a grey dynamic. It has contrast and depth with various choices creating multiple outcomes. Not pick your favorite color. And take a look at the many links to the pre-launch quotes that specify what Bioware promised. Those quotes had the Better Business Bureau state that Bioware technically is guilty of False Advertising.

Yes the endings open up more questions than anything else and you can get a headache trying to follow them to find logic in the game and outside of the game.

The options are an artificial construct used out of laziness.  I don't play games that are supposed to reflect my actions and choices just to have it all distilled down into 3 artificially imposed choices.  This wasn't supposed to take place here-that's the full meaning of the "no ABC ending" statement.  The player made decisions along the way that led to consequences and those would play out based upon what you did.

The ending was also supposed to go off into some wildly different areas because the devs didn't have to funnel all the things into another game.

That means if I am playing a game about criminals, and I decide to lock the front door, but not the side window, the criminal will get in at the end and maybe kill me.  If however, I lock all the doors and windows and have an alarm that calls the police, the criminal won't get it and will be arrested.  It doesn't mean that I can leave the doors and windows open in one game and then lock all the doors and windows in another and then the game stops at the end and a podium pops up that says "press 1: the criminal wins, you die", "press 2: the criminal steals your stuff, butyou live", "press 3: the criminal gets arrested, you make a peanut butter sandwich" for both games. 

It means my actions determine the outcome, not artificial end choices that create only a few very similar outcomes.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 06:59 .

[LiarasShield]

I'm telling it feels like bioware has indoctrinated some of the fanbase into thinking that givingf up to our enemies and have them pick what we should do let alone circular loigc that can be torn apart within the events of the final game the triliogy as whole is so beyond me it almost makes me feel like screaming my lungs out

[Voodoo-j]

jpoppawusc wrote...

I'm sorry, I just can't spend any more time trying to convince an entire forum thread of the endings' legitimacy. I don't expect everyone to be happy about the ending, and I like the fact that it caused some controversy since it proves people still give a crap. I never heard people talk about Gears of War 3 or Halo 3 after they supposedly ended, since most of the "fans" were tired of the franchises and no longer invested in their characters. I am satisfied by the endings, and I hope that my last few posts have illustrated that I have given more thought to it than simply being a so-called "apologist". In reality, I was prepared to hate the ending, given all of the negative press, but after experiencing it multiple times for myself, I feel quite the opposite.

It's not about the time, your defending an ending that doesn't need defending.
The issue is not the ending itself, it's that they used a set of endings that are not the endings they said they would be.

[LiarasShield]

The true ones that have been indoctrinated are the ones who think the catalyst is their friend and giving them cookies lol >_>

[Redbelle]

jpoppawusc wrote...

AlienShagger wrote...

Your theory makes no sense. The global synthesis cumshot is just ludicrous. Shepard surviving the explosion on the Citadel is just not an option, without another Lazarus project. And the accident of Joker plus your love interest surviving by crashlanding on some accidentally inhabitable planet, WITH one of the squad members that was just blasted together with you on the way to the beam?

That stuff is something I can pull out of my ass in 10 seconds of brainstorming - which is exactly what Shepard is doing. He is not conscious.

Synthesis makes as much sense as science fiction should make.  It is a combination of organic and synthetic technologies at their highest, with the ability to use dark matter manipulation on a molecular level.  It equally benefits both contributing civilizations.

Shepard didn't have implants when the original Normandy was destroyed.  He/she does now, and even if those implants had been deactivated by the Crucible blast, their effects on Shepard's enhanced body wouldn't just fade immediately.  It even takes time for humans to get rid of a cold.  Besides, the Citadel has a lot more bulk and sustainable wreckage that would survive the descent; Normandy's just a single high-tech cruiser.

Unless you saw your teammates lying dead in front of you as you were slowly walking towards the Citadel beam, they weren't there.  Unless your total military strength was too low, your team members held back and defended the position while Shepard and Hammer charged to the beam.  If they weren't lying dead on the ground, they would have likely boarded the Normandy to escape Harbinger.

I seriously doubt that Joker made an uncalculated jump through a relay to end up on a random inhabitable planet.  He just had a conversation with Shepard about Eden Prime and the irony of it all coming full circle back to Earth.  With it fresh on his mind, and knowing there was little Reaper presence there, I am pretty sure that "accidentally inhabitable planet" was actually Eden Prime.  Even the skyline and topography look the same.

Just a minor question in the grand scheme of things.......... Don't all military personnel have implants to enhance their combat potential? I'm sure I heard this talked about in ME1 when I was trying to help in a sting operation involving a medical company. It was either implants or genetic recombination, or both. Also, the omnitool, while I can't find any reference to being an implant, appears both in and out of armour and is generally talked about in a way that suggests an individual has only a personnalised one.

Also, can you provide references to the team mates holding back? I haven't seen anything to suggest where they go after the Harby beam. Is sounds reasonable as speculation but it seems out of character for a team to abandon the commander.

Modifié par Redbelle, 23 mai 2012 - 07:08 .

[3DandBeyond]

Voodoo-j wrote...

jpoppawusc wrote...

I'm sorry, I just can't spend any more time trying to convince an entire forum thread of the endings' legitimacy. I don't expect everyone to be happy about the ending, and I like the fact that it caused some controversy since it proves people still give a crap. I never heard people talk about Gears of War 3 or Halo 3 after they supposedly ended, since most of the "fans" were tired of the franchises and no longer invested in their characters. I am satisfied by the endings, and I hope that my last few posts have illustrated that I have given more thought to it than simply being a so-called "apologist". In reality, I was prepared to hate the ending, given all of the negative press, but after experiencing it multiple times for myself, I feel quite the opposite.

It's not about the time, your defending an ending that doesn't need defending.
The issue is not the ending itself, it's that they used a set of endings that are not the endings they said they would be.

The point is you can point to both the problem with what the ending was supposed to be, what was promised as well as the gawd awful ending that is.

I do want what we were promised.  I also do hate what we got.  Two things that are at once linked and yet as separate entities are equally valid complaints.

Promises even if not something that can be challenged legally, should be kept on moral grounds.  The fact that the ending seems like it was written by or for a 2 year old is almost beside the point, except...

It does not even matter what was specifically promised as far as an ending, the game itself implicitly promised something better.  It deserved something better.  And fans do still also deserve better.  Fans made the company.  That is what people don't get.  Fans pay such people's salaries.  The allegiance and loyalty and love of fans decides the viability of the company and the possibility of more games.

[Voodoo-j]

Redbelle wrote...

jpoppawusc wrote...

AlienShagger wrote...

Your theory makes no sense. The global synthesis cumshot is just ludicrous. Shepard surviving the explosion on the Citadel is just not an option, without another Lazarus project. And the accident of Joker plus your love interest surviving by crashlanding on some accidentally inhabitable planet, WITH one of the squad members that was just blasted together with you on the way to the beam?

That stuff is something I can pull out of my ass in 10 seconds of brainstorming - which is exactly what Shepard is doing. He is not conscious.

Synthesis makes as much sense as science fiction should make.  It is a combination of organic and synthetic technologies at their highest, with the ability to use dark matter manipulation on a molecular level.  It equally benefits both contributing civilizations.

Shepard didn't have implants when the original Normandy was destroyed.  He/she does now, and even if those implants had been deactivated by the Crucible blast, their effects on Shepard's enhanced body wouldn't just fade immediately.  It even takes time for humans to get rid of a cold.  Besides, the Citadel has a lot more bulk and sustainable wreckage that would survive the descent; Normandy's just a single high-tech cruiser.

Unless you saw your teammates lying dead in front of you as you were slowly walking towards the Citadel beam, they weren't there.  Unless your total military strength was too low, your team members held back and defended the position while Shepard and Hammer charged to the beam.  If they weren't lying dead on the ground, they would have likely boarded the Normandy to escape Harbinger.

I seriously doubt that Joker made an uncalculated jump through a relay to end up on a random inhabitable planet.  He just had a conversation with Shepard about Eden Prime and the irony of it all coming full circle back to Earth.  With it fresh on his mind, and knowing there was little Reaper presence there, I am pretty sure that "accidentally inhabitable planet" was actually Eden Prime.  Even the skyline and topography look the same.

Just a minor question in the grand scheme of things.......... Don't all military personnel have implants to enhance their combat potential? I'm sure I heard this talked about in ME1 when I was trying to help in a sting operation involving a medical company. It was either implants or genetic recombination, or both. Also, the omnitool, while I can't find any reference to being an implant, appears both in and out of armour and is generally talked about in a way that suggests an individual has only a personnalised one.

holo kid stated "Most of all your technology"
so yeah that pretty much puts us in the stone age

[LiarasShield]

Once again can't accept a ending where we are giving into the hands of our enemy and then very same enemy telling me what I should do instead of me doing what I know to be right or sticking to my own believes and fightiing till the very end instead of making 3 very horrible or painful decisions that will most likely benefit the reapers and not us

Just can't accept that we can assume millions of theories and this and that or maybe this happended and so on and so fourth or last hope or mine in particular is for extended to allow us to actually win and beat the reapers like my intent was since me2

[daveyeisley]

jpoppawusc wrote...

I'm sorry, I just can't spend any more time trying to convince an entire forum thread of the endings' legitimacy. I don't expect everyone to be happy about the ending, and I like the fact that it caused some controversy since it proves people still give a crap. I never heard people talk about Gears of War 3 or Halo 3 after they supposedly ended, since most of the "fans" were tired of the franchises and no longer invested in their characters. I am satisfied by the endings, and I hope that my last few posts have illustrated that I have given more thought to it than simply being a so-called "apologist". In reality, I was prepared to hate the ending, given all of the negative press, but after experiencing it multiple times for myself, I feel quite the opposite.

<Queue Clown Music>

Exit stage left?

Sigh. How many more are going to try this whole 'you didn't get it because you arent filling in the blanks with fan fiction" line....

I have personal fan fiction that helps me accept what I saw... even so, I had to contradict some bits of what was shown so that I could accept it as the conclusion that would satisfy me. Sure, anybody can superimpose their imagination onto the ending and get what they seek from it.

Not the point, never was, and shouldn't be expected of the audience.

Most especially after the advertising.

What they show is is pretty much exactly what they said they wouldn't do to us.

That aside, what they show us make it *harder* for most of us to make an accptable fan fiction/fill-in-the-blanks imaginary ending that fits our Shepard, it doesn't make it easier. They broke parts of the story with what they did. The fact that you can still fill in gaps to fix it in your own head doesn't make it good, smart, satisfying, or worth the money you had to pay to see it.

[jpoppawusc]

Voodoo-j wrote...
Promises even if not something that can be challenged legally, should be kept on moral grounds.  The fact that the ending seems like it was written by or for a 2 year old is almost beside the point, except...

Really? Be serious...

It does not even matter what was specifically promised as far as an ending, the game itself implicitly promised something better.  It deserved something better.  And fans do still also deserve better.  Fans made the company.  That is what people don't get.  Fans pay such people's salaries.  The allegiance and loyalty and love of fans decides the viability of the company and the possibility of more games.

I do not assume that I am entitled to dictate my personal desires to a company that has campaigned in its players' interests more times than I can count.  Atlus and BioWare are unique in that way, and I rarely find fault in their artistic decisions, let alone demand change in what could be the greatest landmark in interactive entertainment history.  I would prefer to enjoy the vision that the team has devoted seven years of their lives creating, and unlike a majority of this thread, I genuinely enjoyed the endings as-is.  I didn't see them as false advertising.  I saw them as personal, interpretive, and appropriate to the dynamic of their trilogy.