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[Voodoo-j]

jpoppawusc wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...
Promises even if not something that can be challenged legally, should be kept on moral grounds.  The fact that the ending seems like it was written by or for a 2 year old is almost beside the point, except...

Really? Be serious...

It does not even matter what was specifically promised as far as an ending, the game itself implicitly promised something better.  It deserved something better.  And fans do still also deserve better.  Fans made the company.  That is what people don't get.  Fans pay such people's salaries.  The allegiance and loyalty and love of fans decides the viability of the company and the possibility of more games.

I do not assume that I am entitled to dictate my personal desires to a company that has campaigned in its players' interests more times than I can count.  Atlus and BioWare are unique in that way, and I rarely find fault in their artistic decisions, let alone demand change in what could be the greatest landmark in interactive entertainment history.  I would prefer to enjoy the vision that the team has devoted seven years of their lives creating, and unlike a majority of this thread, I genuinely enjoyed the endings as-is.  I didn't see them as false advertising.  I saw them as personal, interpretive, and appropriate to the dynamic of their trilogy.

Thanks for quoting something I did not say.
You are known as ...

2% 1.0

[LiarasShield]

well those of us that saw the failure of giving inhto your enemies and how promises weren't kept by the gaming company espically since I loved this company since baldurs gate is a bit disappoint GO boo GO FOR THEEE EYES!!! YAHHHH but yeah this was a extreme let down since most of the promises in the interview were not kept

Modifié par LiarasShield, 23 mai 2012 - 07:32 .

[daveyeisley]

jpoppawusc wrote...
I do not assume that I am entitled to dictate my personal desires to a company that has campaigned in its players' interests more times than I can count.  Atlus and BioWare are unique in that way, and I rarely find fault in their artistic decisions, let alone demand change in what could be the greatest landmark in interactive entertainment history.  I would prefer to enjoy the vision that the team has devoted seven years of their lives creating, and unlike a majority of this thread, I genuinely enjoyed the endings as-is.  I didn't see them as false advertising.  I saw them as personal, interpretive, and appropriate to the dynamic of their trilogy.

Glad you're a Bioware fan. So are we.

You will find your final sentence is not a popular viewpoint, and if you read this thread entirely (which I admit will take you a month), you will see plenty of explanation as to why so many peope disagree with you.

So what, right?

Well, if we want Bioware to keep being awesome, so we can keep giving them our money.... then we need to feel we can trust them to deliver what we seek.

Too many people didn't get what they sought from ME3. It will hurt the company if they don't fix it. That's why we are here explaining.

You disagree. Fine. Good for you. Your satisfaction and explanation doesn't help any of us, especially with how you have presented it. If you aren't here to help, do yourself a favor, and the rest of us, and find another thread to troll in

[3DandBeyond]

jpoppawusc wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...
Promises even if not something that can be challenged legally, should be kept on moral grounds.  The fact that the ending seems like it was written by or for a 2 year old is almost beside the point, except...

Really? Be serious...

It does not even matter what was specifically promised as far as an ending, the game itself implicitly promised something better.  It deserved something better.  And fans do still also deserve better.  Fans made the company.  That is what people don't get.  Fans pay such people's salaries.  The allegiance and loyalty and love of fans decides the viability of the company and the possibility of more games.

I do not assume that I am entitled to dictate my personal desires to a company that has campaigned in its players' interests more times than I can count.  Atlus and BioWare are unique in that way, and I rarely find fault in their artistic decisions, let alone demand change in what could be the greatest landmark in interactive entertainment history.  I would prefer to enjoy the vision that the team has devoted seven years of their lives creating, and unlike a majority of this thread, I genuinely enjoyed the endings as-is.  I didn't see them as false advertising.  I saw them as personal, interpretive, and appropriate to the dynamic of their trilogy.

Again, they are businesses.  I have demanded nothing.  I have asked that they remain true not only to what they promised, but to what the games have previously been.  No, you haven't dictated to anyone anything.  Well, congratulations.  When you disagree with a company, I suppose you think that's fine as long as they follow their own vision always.  It's just that that is not a great business model, nor is it the best behavior of a consumer.  A company fails to deliver and if you don't like that failure, you do yourself no favor by just rolling over and taking it.

You like the ending.  Fine. It's yours. You have what you want and do not ever need to do anything more.  When the EC comes out, you don't need it.  So, don't get it.  But a great many of us are not happy and are doing what any consumer should do.  We are asking them to fix what we think is broken.

If I sell something I want to keep my loyal customers happy.  I don't always have the luxury of just doing any old thing I want to do.  An artist paints a painting, but unless someone appreciates the art, he starves.  If enough people say, "dude, you have to quite painting pictures of your navel" the guy may paint something people like and actually may buy.  That doesn't mean people demand the guy paint something else.  It means they don't like what he's been doing and are offering him reasons for not liking it.

The fact you don't see anything they've said is false advertising is beside the point.  You've decided they can do no wrong.  I have the proof that shows they may not have violated any letter of the law, but they did violate the intent.  As a moral issue alone they have broken my trust, my goodwill, called me names, insulted my intelligence, and tried to create a fan war.  In the interim they have opted to adhere to deafening silence.  Some ripples of discontent have shown through as others have started to talk a wee bit about what happened, but that gets reined back in quickly.

They are doing everything wrong as a company and that alone should worry you if you want great Bioware games to come.  Money walks.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 23 mai 2012 - 07:37 .

[jpoppawusc]

What help do you need? The ending is already being expanded. I'd say you've gained some victory there, and last time I checked, the thread wasn't named "What's wrong with the Mass Effect 3 endings?". I added some genuine opinions, different ones than are commonly held here, and if that's trolling, then what isn't?

[Holger1405]

Archonsg wrote...

You know what is another screw up, the fact that I don't even have to do ANY side quests to get the "best" possible ending, having played MP to hell, while those who don't or more importantly, can't play MP, are penalized.

Why? My current N7 asset is almost 5000 ems, that's right, 5000, (and counting as I continue to play MP) on its own. That is just wrong.

On this, I completely agree.

There are other ways to alter your EMS score than MP, but you shouldn't have to do that. 

[Voodoo-j]

jpoppawusc wrote...

What help do you need? The ending is already being expanded. I'd say you've gained some victory there, and last time I checked, the thread wasn't named "What's wrong with the Mass Effect 3 endings?". I added some genuine opinions, different ones than are commonly held here, and if that's trolling, then what isn't?

If you expand something that was not meant to be, it is still what was not meant to be.

If you didnt like the endings that were meant to be, why did you buy the game.

Again the issue is, these are not the endings they said it would be.

(oh Eden Prime only has -- no moons)

I thought you had no time left?

[Holger1405]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

jpoppawusc wrote...

AlienShagger wrote...

Your theory makes no sense. The global synthesis cumshot is just ludicrous. Shepard surviving the explosion on the Citadel is just not an option, without another Lazarus project. And the accident of Joker plus your love interest surviving by crashlanding on some accidentally inhabitable planet, WITH one of the squad members that was just blasted together with you on the way to the beam?

That stuff is something I can pull out of my ass in 10 seconds of brainstorming - which is exactly what Shepard is doing. He is not conscious.

Synthesis makes as much sense as science fiction should make.  It is a combination of organic and synthetic technologies at their highest, with the ability to use dark matter manipulation on a molecular level.  It equally benefits both contributing civilizations.

Shepard didn't have implants when the original Normandy was destroyed.  He/she does now, and even if those implants had been deactivated by the Crucible blast, their effects on Shepard's enhanced body wouldn't just fade immediately.  It even takes time for humans to get rid of a cold.  Besides, the Citadel has a lot more bulk and sustainable wreckage that would survive the descent; Normandy's just a single high-tech cruiser.

Unless you saw your teammates lying dead in front of you as you were slowly walking towards the Citadel beam, they weren't there.  Unless your total military strength was too low, your team members held back and defended the position while Shepard and Hammer charged to the beam.  If they weren't lying dead on the ground, they would have likely boarded the Normandy to escape Harbinger.

I seriously doubt that Joker made an uncalculated jump through a relay to end up on a random inhabitable planet.  He just had a conversation with Shepard about Eden Prime and the irony of it all coming full circle back to Earth.  With it fresh on his mind, and knowing there was little Reaper presence there, I am pretty sure that "accidentally inhabitable planet" was actually Eden Prime.  Even the skyline and topography look the same.

Just a minor question in the grand scheme of things.......... Don't all military personnel have implants to enhance their combat potential? I'm sure I heard this talked about in ME1 when I was trying to help in a sting operation involving a medical company. It was either implants or genetic recombination, or both. Also, the omnitool, while I can't find any reference to being an implant, appears both in and out of armour and is generally talked about in a way that suggests an individual has only a personnalised one.

holo kid stated "Most of all your technology"
so yeah that pretty much puts us in the stone age

He only stated that if your EMS score is too low.   

Modifié par Holger1405, 23 mai 2012 - 07:47 .

[LiarasShield]

Again the endings that will forever divide the community that is what they are

[Voodoo-j]

Ha.. so if you had more ships in your armada, that saves your technology, GREAT glad that clears it up.

[AlienShagger]

jpoppawusc wrote...

Synthesis makes as much sense as science fiction should make.  It is a combination of organic and synthetic technologies at their highest, with the ability to use dark matter manipulation on a molecular level.  It equally benefits both contributing civilizations.

Your answer is "it's magic"? This ain' Hogwarts, dude. And even Potter has to obey some freegin rules. You be reachin' far.

Shepard didn't have implants when the original Normandy was destroyed.  He/she does now, and even if those implants had been deactivated by the Crucible blast, their effects on Shepard's enhanced body wouldn't just fade immediately.  It even takes time for humans to get rid of a cold.  Besides, the Citadel has a lot more bulk and sustainable wreckage that would survive the descent; Normandy's just a single high-tech cruiser.

Now you know how the synthetics in Shepard work? How about Occam's Razor? The kid lied, or at least put two sentences together that insinuate that Shepard woud die. This would work even if it was real.

And you see the Citadel explode - the piece you are on top of is like a matchstick that got separated at best, completely destroyed at worst. First vacuum, then re-entry... I don't know man, I guess we can wave the magic wand again, or just say the obvious: Shepard got his ass shot and is now dreaming in the rubble back on earth.

Unless you saw your teammates lying dead in front of you as you were slowly walking towards the Citadel beam, they weren't there.  Unless your total military strength was too low, your team members held back and defended the position while Shepard and Hammer charged to the beam.  If they weren't lying dead on the ground, they would have likely boarded the Normandy to escape Harbinger.

I don't know about this one... again it's either reaching or just complete I-don't-care-just-make-it-happen moment in the morning scrum meeting at BioWare R&D. OOOOOOooor... everyone's ass got shot and he's happy-dreaming in the rubble? I vote the latter.

I seriously doubt that Joker made an uncalculated jump through a relay to end up on a random inhabitable planet.  He just had a conversation with Shepard about Eden Prime and the irony of it all coming full circle back to Earth.  With it fresh on his mind, and knowing there was little Reaper presence there, I am pretty sure that "accidentally inhabitable planet" was actually Eden Prime.  Even the skyline and topography look the same.

Ok, I will give you (a part) of this one. They would know where to go and they crash just the intended place - this has happened before. But joker coming out of the ship with a big ol' smile in Destroy option? EDI just died. The only woman that would be with that gimp. And she can't gain weight. No, sry. Shepard just got his ass shot and is dreaming.

This is why all the scenes are almost identical. It's the same ****ing guy with same happy wishes dreaming those wishes come true. If BioWare disagrees, they should just fire the writers and hire some fans.

[LiarasShield]

In the end we didn't retake earth back because msot of earth is destroyed or burned down besides london and even during most of london looks almost completely annhilated so we really didn't take earth back and since the catalyst controls the reapers from the very begining and since shepards gives into the catalyst wether because of bleeding out or not let alone


The false promises in the interviews instead getting 16 different drastic endings where our choices would affect the ending we get 3 color different explosions that trap our forces and has 90% percent of the same animation minus the color doesn't feel like different endings just seems like looking at the color of the rainbow

Modifié par LiarasShield, 23 mai 2012 - 07:55 .

[Holger1405]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Ha.. so if you had more ships in your armada, that saves your technology, GREAT glad that clears it up.

This is a video game, it needs some kind of Game mechanics, (so more EMS = different ending) EMS is a good concept, but it is bad balanced.

[daveyeisley]

jpoppawusc wrote...

What help do you need? The ending is already being expanded. I'd say you've gained some victory there, and last time I checked, the thread wasn't named "What's wrong with the Mass Effect 3 endings?". I added some genuine opinions, different ones than are commonly held here, and if that's trolling, then what isn't?

You aren't merely adding genuine opinions, you are trying to start arguments. Your tone makes that very clear.

Its obvious you either have not read all the explanation people have given, or you think they are wrong.

You can think that if you like, but those explanations contained the exact reasons why expanding anything is not a victory.

Either go back and read more, or allow folks to keep providing feedback without your condescension.

[Voodoo-j]

I could back up the current ending and make it work, with additional info to fill in the blanks, but again that's not really the issue.

It's not the ending Bioware said it would be.
I know I sound like a broken record, but at the end of the day, THIS is what the issue really is.

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 23 mai 2012 - 07:58 .

[LiarasShield]

that definitly plays a major role

[Archonsg]

To put into perspective the acceptance and logic of Shepard accepting ANY option given by the star-child.

Your city has been terrorized for 5 years by a sniper who put 50cal rounds into people. And it seems that this serial killer has a thing for your family, he has been targeting your family and extended family.

Out of desperation you carried out your own investigation since the local police seems to not be interested in catching this fellow, and when given evidence, "disclaimed" the existence of this serial killer.

For 5 years you tracked, investigated and tried to find leads only to see one by one, people you know killed off, one at a time with the 50cal round to the head.

When finally, at the end, the killer taunting you, sent a 50 cal casing, inviting you to a warehouse.
Not being stupid, you brought the police with you but before they could storm the place, the killer sets off multiple m18s (claymores) that he had hidden by plastering them into walls with the "kill" sides forming a cross fire kill zone.

Miraculously you survive.

You pass out.
You come to with a person standing next to you. That person tells you that the reason why they could not "catch" the sniper was because there were multiple snipers and that they are all under his direct control.

You ask why? Why do this, why kill people?
He tells you, no one is innocent, and that every single human is a killer. Sooner or later, someone will kill someone else. Thus, to prevent humans from killing each other off, they just kill select human adults.

You don't question this.

He then tells you, that the fact that you lived, is proof that they might be mistaken and has 3 choices for you.

1) grab two electro rods, you'll die in the process but all control of this "killer cabal" goes to you

2) walk towards and shoot that huge big ass gas cylinder, it'll blow up and kill you, but in doing so, you'll kill everyone in the cabal

3) jump into an acid vat. Really. Just jump. Once you are turned into goo, we will all see the truth and there will be peace and sing kumbaya around a campfire.

Now hurry and choose.


Nope. Nothing wrong with that logic.



ps: Do I even need to go on about how your wife who was standing next to you when those m18s (say ...1000 of them) went off, somehow ended up in Brazil while your sorry ass in the US of A, and how your best buddy, or whom you thought was your best buddy who drove you to that warehouse, is seen sitting on a beach with said wife? Good times!

Modifié par Archonsg, 23 mai 2012 - 08:12 .

[Needsnewending]

IF YOU LIKE, the indoctrination theory, answear yes on Chris priestlys question posted 22.Mai VOTE YES!! for IT:D

http://www.holdtheline.com/

[AlienShagger]

jpoppawusc wrote...

What help do you need? The ending is already being expanded. I'd say you've gained some victory there, and last time I checked, the thread wasn't named "What's wrong with the Mass Effect 3 endings?". I added some genuine opinions, different ones than are commonly held here, and if that's trolling, then what isn't?

I totally agree with this, with two hickups:

1) The final scenes were beyond awesome, not just "some victory". After beating the Indoctrination, the Reapers only have the artillery left, and you don't harvest **** with artillery only.

2) I think people should rage against BioWare anyway and get some creative ideas for other protests. It's good exercise.

[Holger1405]

Voodoo-j wrote...

I could back up the current ending and make it work, with additional info to fill in the blanks, but again that's not really the issue.

It's not the ending Bioware said it would be.
I know I sound like a broken record, but at the end of the day, THIS is what the issue really is.

For you it is, but I bet that a lot of Players wouldn't care about it if they get a full-blown Happy End. Other Players would be fine if the catalyst are gone. Yet others would be OK if "destruction" didn't included the Geth.
See I personally don't think that Bioware made a lot of false promises.
The endings are very different if you think about all the possible outcomes. (depending on your EMS score and the choice you made after the Catalyst scene)

However, I agree that Bioware did a bad job in making this differences clear. 

Modifié par Holger1405, 23 mai 2012 - 08:22 .

[Thanatos144]

Use to be you didnt throw fits after a certain age.

[Voodoo-j]

Holger1405 wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

I could back up the current ending and make it work, with additional info to fill in the blanks, but again that's not really the issue.

It's not the ending Bioware said it would be.
I know I sound like a broken record, but at the end of the day, THIS is what the issue really is.

For you it is, but I bet that a lot of Players wouldn't care about it if they get a full-blown Happy End. Other Players would be fine if the catalyst are gone. Yet others would be OK if "destruction" didn't included the Geth.
See I personally don't think that Bioware made a lot of false promises.
The endings are very different if you think about all the possible outcomes. (depending on your EMS score and the choice you made after the Catalyst scene)

However, I agree that Bioware did a bad job in making this differences clear. 

They have always backed the idea of playing the game and having a different experience, different ending.  I can play different ways have a different experience, but yet I have the same ending, the choice of 3 colors.

[Arathyl]

Oside 38 wrote...

Please read this bioware...

Well, the whole game in general was amazing, the way your characters died was amazing like mordin, thane, and legion. Their death was meaningful, so you guys did an excellent job on it. Now i have to say, my favorite characters were garrus and liara. They absolutely were the coolest because they were always with you and supporting you.
For the romance partners, again, liara was the best, i saw both ashley and mirandas romance, and they suck, in my opinion. They werent meaningful. But you did justice for liara, so that was nice.

Now, for the endings, i find them alright, they are fine. I mean, if the indoctrination theory is correct and it was on purpose, man, that was pretty awesome, and you should keep it. It was very well done. And if you didnt do it on purpose, who cares, take credit for it, because it was amazing.
All i ask for the ending of ME3 extended would be to, like most people would like, to see closure to everyone around you, your friends, partner, and the species you affected. Now you dont have to show what will happen in the rest of their lives, but tell us their plans.
You can even do something like this for shepard to survive, you can make it that the dream he had was just to decide weather he actually lives or dies. You can make it like this, if shepard wakes up, he gets up and destroys the reapers, making him a hero. Or you can make that if you had enough war assets and stuff, the army you brought together would finish the job for you so the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy saved, and the last decision would be to decide weather shepard dies along with the reapers since he is indoctrinated or weather he is able to wake up and still be the person he is. Shepard (in my opinion) is a hero already, he has done enough, the ending just shows weather he was able to prepare enough for everyone else to finish the job and the last struggle was just so shepard can survive these events.

Now for the species. You can do something like the ending of halo 3, where you see humans planning on building once again and having allegiances with the elites, a shaking one at that but at least you know they are both going their separate ways already with a plan on the future, enough for us to fill in the blanks.
Now for squad mates, you can do something simple. Have them all in their places, or have scenes where they go back home and start rebuilding their worlds. An example would be tales of symphonia, the first one. At the end, you see your party members back in their countries or villages talking about what they are going to start doing and what they need to do and how the world would change because of the events that transpired. Something like that, where we have an idea in where they are going to be headed.
Now for the last thing it would be like what liara said. Maybe a scene where you find shepard finally able to relax again with his romance partner and finally have a good ending for him for all his hard work. Again nothing to complicated, but able to see him enjoy the fruits of his labor and struggle, and finally be happy with whoever the player chose to be with at the end.

For me, these would be a great ending, seeing the army shepard brought together finish the reapers, and it depends on how well you did, then see how species would react and see their plans now that the war is over, see if they make new alliances or not, or what they could do, then see your friends and team members go out and finally live their lives the way they want to, see them alive and well, and then if the player decides to allow shepard to survive the attempt of indoctrination then see him with his romance partner with a nice happy ending.

Please Bioware, the mass effect series has been my personal favorite and also the same for many people. Yet there are others who would like it to be their favorite but cannot be because of the ending. Please, do this series justice, give it the ending the characters in the universe deserve, give it the ending we the fans deserve, give it the ending you as the awesome team of bioware deserve to make for it! You can do it, you made awesome games the last half a decade, you made awesome stories, characters, scenarios, events, awesome everything! So finish this right! Finish this game the way it should finish! I thank you.

well said, champ! *stands up and claps*

no but seriously, i think we all just want some sort of closure, the game just ended abruptly. like you i am also happy with the whole of the game. i even liked the ending. i like to think of it this way, "sometimes, no matter what you do, there are bigger things in life that you cannot control"

IF there was one thing i was disappointed with, it would be the romance. i know that anyone who romanced a new crew member from ME2 was let down, but ASHLEY and KAIDAN?! they're the main romance characters for shepard since the very first game! it was said that they would make a 'passionate return' but it wasn't that great, on the contrary, their romance in ME3 was weak. i was expecting so much more, a romance that would have equaled that of liara at least! the platonic relationship between garrus & shepard or liara & shepard was even better than that of ashley/kaidan & shepard. i hope that this will change or at least a romance DLC will be released. people will say bioware only wants your money, but i will happily pay for that extra content! so please, bioware, my happiness depends on it, or my shepard's does!!!

[3DandBeyond]

Holger1405 wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Ha.. so if you had more ships in your armada, that saves your technology, GREAT glad that clears it up.

This is a video game, it needs some kind of Game mechanics, (so more EMS = different ending) EMS is a good concept, but it is bad balanced.

I think then that you agree that as such EMS is almost a meaningless thing to work for.  Without MP, it's far worse.  Alternatively, they will allow you to use points from playing the paid for Infiltrator app in which they expect you to pay real money for bullets.

What a lot of us are saying is that the game kind of disregarded all those war assets, which could have been great in the game.  It boiled down to playing reaper tag to get a lot of them.  But, we did it.  And some people that didn't like MP played that too because they wanted to get the best ending possible.  And your EMS was artificially crippled by half if you did not or could not play MP.  This was one major insult to fans and a big lie.

And then, if I work hard playing the game and playing MP, which is very hard for a lot of people-crap internet or they just are not good at it, and it takes 20 minutes to finish a game, netting a 1% gain in galactic readiness.  Some people don't care to invest that time into MP, on top of hundreds of hours maybe of SP play (some people go back and fix things they figure they did wrong).

But, you get to the end and it doesn't even matter.  You didn't have to try that hard to get almost all the endings possible.  The only big difference occurs with really low EMS and the higher EMS-gasp ending.  Otherwise, they are the exact same choices.  This does not take into account the actual things you do in the game, choices made since often just completing missions (and not how well you completed them) nets you some assets and together it's often enough.

[Voodoo-j]

Needsnewending wrote...

IF YOU LIKE, the indoctrination theory, answear yes on Chris priestlys question posted 22.Mai VOTE YES!! for IT:D

http://www.holdtheline.com/

The IT part 2 vid works very well into the current ending, the issue is, the game is not ended, everything was an indoctrination dream and you laying on the ground after the reaper blasted you in London.  The end still needs to be played out.

It is the only way I see Bioware Salvaging as is.