23455 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

iakus wrote...

I like it. 

Pity it's not artistic enough

No, you have to create a following of people by writing great comprehendable stories and then change it to nonsense in order to call it art. 

By the way, I love your tagline.  It seems ironic in that it appears the most loyal fans are primarily the ones Bioware has pissed off.  They do need a loyalty mission and EC may be it.  So right.

[B3A5T13]

3DandBeyond wrote...

B3A5T13 wrote...

Not Brainwashed, Whitewashed, hired pro. or mainstream. I just dont like being force fed my entertainment. I must say though how many perfect scores was BW sporting even after the realease? yes the numbers went down after the game lost some of its momentum beacuse of the exaggeration of what exactly happens in the end. I have herd stories that there was no ending, that everyone just died and nothing you did made any difference. well sorry to tell you but apparently your wrong! If you didnt like the game then why are you on a forum talking about it with other people? If you didnt like the game then why are people still buying it? Playing it? because BW did a damn good job. and they better most of them spent good money to go to school get the degree so that they could make video games like Mass Effect all of the time. then they got the job at BW. a tough thing to do as well. If all they wanted was money and not to make a good game then why all of the free DLC? If customer satisfation wasnt on their plate then why agree to extend the ending anyway. why not just tell us to go jump off of a cliff?

I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but will say yours is wrong on many counts and ill-informed on others.

First off, and the main problem you have is your belief that we didn't like the game.  The opposite is true.  We are here because we loved it.  But we hated the ending.  Where should a person go to complain about a product if not the forum for that product?

Secondly, you incorrectly assume that perfect review scores mean much at all.  Look at who advertises review websites.  Poor reviews mean dropped ads, mean dropped revenue, means reviewer stops reviewing.  And, IGN had their ace in a hole so to speak with Jessica Chobot, complete with painted on dress, massive boobage, and fantastic (ugh) acting.  IGN score 9.5.  Anyone that knows anything understands that in order to make room for Chobot the ME series character of Emily Wong just went away. 

And reviews are not based upon complete plays of a game.  Most often they are based on what the reviewer sees of it and isn't the totality of the product.  They don't finish a game and say they liked such and such about the ending.  They rush to be the first to review and they do so much want to like titles from major game companies.  I used to watch xplay and liked Adam Sessler and the reviews seemed pretty close to the way I saw things oftentimes.  However, one year he gave a game a total 10 all the way across, though the game was said by players to have many flaws.  The next in the series came out sometime later and he said it was better than the first, far better and he gave it a 9.5.  It wasn't, but what hit me is they are just making this stuff up as they go along.

Ok as to the free DLC-I assume you mean the one free (so far) Resurgence pack for Multiplayer.  You need to understand that they hope to make money off of people there with microtransactions-they gave it to you for free partly because of the ME3 ending backlash, but mostly because they hope you will buy all those equipment packs in the game.  A lot of people do buy them so that's where they make real money.  Also, they famously released a release day DLC pack of a character that in the Final Hours app was supposed to play a major part in ME3-Javik.  They released it as a pay for DLC in order to get you to pay $80 for a $60 game.  EA admitted this.

You are under some misconceptions about the ending as well-the choices.  I can play a pretty crappy game and get far less of the war assets than you-you may get 100% of them and play the metagame to get everything you are supposed to-but I can have the exact same endings as you.  Other than perhaps the gasp ending, as long as I meet some minimums for EMS, I can have the endings you do.  No variety.  Your choices, being perfect should mean something far better than mine, but they don't.

Even so, all three choices are virtually the exact same cutscene with some minimal differences.  Oh and color-that's important.

And as to everyone dies in the end-well a good case can be made that that is what should happen.  The relays rupture which is supposed to destroy a solar system, should destroy Earth, should probably destroy all the fleets amassed at Earth and so on.  Joker running away made no sense and swooping into London and picking up Shepard's Love Interest and people Shepard was fighting with, who also decided to run away, made a lot of sense.

Shepard believes the star kid but the star kid has been sending reapers to turn people into goo.  So, yes someone had to go to college and become a brain surgeon in order to write this because it makes so much sense.  I would trust someone that wants to turn my family into goo, wouldn't you?  Heck, I think one needs a Master's Degree to write something that special.

The Ratings, yes, are for the most part made up along the way i will admit that.
But for the simple reason that when you think of the ending as real and not symbolic then is why it doesnt make sence. Joker would not have been able to go down to earth pick up your team mates then jump through the Relays. just to crash on some other planet. In no way would there have been enough time. many of the other parts of the ending sequences also dont add up. Like how the Hell would Anderson be able to get to where you fight TIM before you there was only one way. The only thing that I, and my friends could come up with is that Its not real. Its all in Sheperds head. its a symbol. Why would Sheperd not be susceptible to Indoctrination. And my biggest peeve about the ending is that the choice where you make new DNA is hardly new. The Reapers already did this. Mixing Synthitic life with Humans just make husks. it took me a few play throughs to understand this but its all there. try to pay attention to the story not just shooting people.

[BlueStorm83]

--- I've also got another ending that makes more sense than what the game gave us.

(Shepard falls before the podium, and the magic elevator takes him upstairs.)

Shep: What? Where am I? Who are you?"
A Duck: "AFLAC!!!!"

THE END.

[Benchpress610]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I've also got another ending that makes more sense than what the game gave us.

(Shepard falls before the podium, and the magic elevator takes him upstairs.)

Shep: What? Where am I? Who are you?"
A Duck: "AFLAC!!!!"

THE END.

ROFLMAO.....

[3DandBeyond]

B3A5T13 wrote...

The Ratings, yes, are for the most part made up along the way i will admit that.
But for the simple reason that when you think of the ending as real and not symbolic then is why it doesnt make sence. Joker would not have been able to go down to earth pick up your team mates then jump through the Relays. just to crash on some other planet. In no way would there have been enough time. many of the other parts of the ending sequences also dont add up. Like how the Hell would Anderson be able to get to where you fight TIM before you there was only one way. The only thing that I, and my friends could come up with is that Its not real. Its all in Sheperds head. its a symbol. Why would Sheperd not be susceptible to Indoctrination. And my biggest peeve about the ending is that the choice where you make new DNA is hardly new. The Reapers already did this. Mixing Synthitic life with Humans just make husks. it took me a few play throughs to understand this but its all there. try to pay attention to the story not just shooting people.

The thing is it is because people have paid attention to the stories and are not just shooting, that the ending fails.  The ending actually forgets much of what happened throughout 3 games.  It even forgets what happened or can happen in ME3 itself.  How many codices did you read?  I read them all.  How many planet descriptions did you read? I read them all.  I don't remember all of them, but I read them.  I paid close attention to the story and yet, I learn new things all the time.  But the ending does not fit with the story that was told before the ending came along.  There's no symbolism for anything, but then the game wasn't about symbolism.  It was about fact within a known game universe.

Well, you do understand Synthesis I see.  And for the reasons you stated and many others throughout the game, it's a non-choice for me.  Synthesis is used more or less by a lot of people, reapers too in some pretty horrific ways.

Control is no choice as well, because those who have sought it have been evil, indoctrinated or both.  It is an attempt at godhood.

Destroy wouldn't fit with a Paragon Shepard who wouldn't kill EDI-in my game, EDI had just told Shepard that s/he was the reason she could feel truly alive now.  Shepard wouldn't kill the geth easily, either.

So, the choices in my opinion are no win scenarios.  But even deciding to make a choice is ridiculous since they are being given or offered by the star kid who owns the reapers.  No way Shepard would believe that making a choice is a good thing.

Ok, I can see what you are saying.  Yes, indoctrination is the only thing that can make sense of what we now have, but......I don't want it to.  For many reasons.

• It then is not an ending.  It leaves the player with no closure.  If Shepard was indoctrinated then maybe EC would work to explain it, but I'd need way more than clarity to fix it.
• If indoctrination is true and this is not the end, then they knowingly released a game without an ending.  They may have intended to spin off DLC from that for more stories, but then what about the people that have no internet and can't get that real ending DLC?  They thought they bought a complete game and it isn't one.  As it was there were people that got the game and had to use someone else's internet to get the From Ashes DLC.
• For Shepard to have been indoctrinated there is a certain diminishing of Shepard's image.  The indoctrinated are always looked at as if they have leprosy and to a person, they have either sounded crazy (caged indoctrinated Salarians I think it was in ME1) or like control freaks or they have turned into other creatures (Protheans/Collectors).  Many people already had thought Shepard was crazy with the Beacon vision and assertion that the reapers were coming.  Real indoctrination also is not something that can be easily overcome or "cured".  The only person I can remember getting over something similar was the Asari that was the Thorian's thrall in ME1.  Basically, indoctrination would make Shepard forever more untrustworthy in some ways and would call into question everything Shepard did before.  Shepard's Love Interest might well ask, "did you really love me?" since no one would really know when indoctrination started.
• I said it isn't an ending and to revisit that notion, just consider if it isn't most people point to indoctrination taking over when Harby hit Shepard with the beam.  That means Shepard never did anything up on the Citadel (actually I prefer this) and the reapers are still out there, cracking their knuckles, waiting for a fight.  I'd prefer an ending redo, but don't think that will happen.

Now, I've given reasons why I don't want IT to be true.  There are reasons why (a lot of reasons why) I actually think it fits.  One minor/major thing-you shoot Anderson which kills him eventually, but as soon as I came into that room where Anderson had his back to me, I tried shooting him-no effect. 

Shepard's got a headache when talking to TIM-well s/he could have hit his/her head, so that can be explained.  Oily crud floats all around, but that could be TIM's indoctrination aura. The wound on Shepard is Anderson's wound, but then Shepard could be bleeding for other reasons.  Then, there's the dream like quality.  But, well Shepard had been severely injured so that explains the slow mo walking.  But there is also a surreal quality about everything after Harbinger's beam.  IT fits it in a big way.  But then the Bioware guys said IT wouldn't figure into gameplay for the ending.  But, they didn't rule out narrative for it.

What it boils down to is IT can make sense of the stupid stuff we now have, it's the only thing that can.  But I wish they'd done something different and better.  If it is IT and they rehabilitate the game and there's an awesome real ending, I will feel better, but I will still feel bad for people that have to work to find a way to get it if they have no internet.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 26 mai 2012 - 01:45 .

[BlueStorm83]

B3A5T13- You're right, the endings do make much more sense as symbolic than as actual. But therein lies another problem- when Symbolic, they're not an ending, just a kind of last impression. When they're symbolic, we're left at a cliff hanger, and not a conclusion. When they're symbolic, nothing is resolved and nothing is explained, and we're left with more questions.

One question is "Are they symbolic." BioWare hasn't said yes or no, but they have IMPLIED that they're not symbolic. The Extended Cut (Or as I call it, the "We should have made sense the FIRST Time Cut") will answer that question, hopefully.

Basically, what happened is that BioWare tried to do it like Lost (though they explicitly said "We won't be like Lost") and end on an air of mystery. Thing is, people didn't LIKE when Lost ended with mystery. And Lost was nothing BUT mystery. Mass Effect has been nothing if not explained- just add up all the codex entries. They went to GREAT lengths to explain things, and ground them in Physics, both real and "enhanced" to fit the game world. They didn't say "People travel faster than light, and throw magic now!" They made pages upon pages explaining Element Zero (An atom without Protons OR NEUTRONS?!) that can, when an electric current is passed through it, can generate a field that lowers or raises the mass of an object without affecting it in any adverse ways, allowing it to bypass the constraints of gravity and relativity, making FTL travel, antigravity, and things like that all possible. Nodules of Element Zero can form in a fetus if a pregnant female is exposes to it, and those nodules, activated with neurological implants, can allow a sentient being to generate semi-stable mass effect fields.

Then the ending throws explanation right out of the window. Symbolism isn't a weapon in Mass Effect's arsenal. Shep can use Assault Rifles, Sniper Rifles, Shotguns, Submachine guns, and heavy pistols. Occasionally he can whip out a heavy weapon. Once, he even tricked a worm into eating a hell robot. And another time he dropped a Reaper into a brown dwarf. It's fun to try unconventional armaments.

But using symbolism, mystery, and "art" didn't get the job done. BioWare should pick a different loadout and try again. I suggest using... guns, and war, and dialogue. That's what they've had success with before.

[3DandBeyond]

Lest you think that game companies are not gearing up to find every way possible to squeeze the money out of you....

http://www.gameinfor...s.aspx#comments

This is of course a hardware maker, but if this happens software devs have to sign on as well.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 26 mai 2012 - 01:39 .

[BlueStorm83]

--- My first and last thoughts on Indoctrination Theory:

It would be really, really cool for Shep to have been the first person to beat indoctrination. If the entire finale scenes are in his mind, and you can get out of them, and then go on and beat the reapers. Would really cement his strength of character and will.

But you can't. If you do "Wake up" in that last destroy ending scene, like it's refusing indoctrination, it's not explained, and there's no actual ending to the game. Then, as 3D said, we've all bought 90% of a game. No final boss fight, no ending. If they HAD included more game after waking up, that would have been an INCREDIBLE mind****, where you think you've beaten the game unless you're really, really set for the fight, and THEN you unlock the last 2 hours of the game for real.

But again, it's not. We either get a truncated vision and a partial game (after BioWare SWORE it was "complete out of the box. Which is already bull**** {Cough, From Ashes, Cough} but okay...) or we get the Great Googity Moogity showing up at the last moment to save the world from... himself. Bull ****. That's like grabbing a woman on the street, putting a gun to her head, and saying, "Don't worry, I'll save you FROM ME!" and then walking away whistling.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

But again, it's not. We either get a truncated vision and a partial game (after BioWare SWORE it was "complete out of the box. Which is already bull**** {Cough, From Ashes, Cough} but okay...) or we get the Great Googity Moogity showing up at the last moment to save the world from... himself. Bull ****. That's like grabbing a woman on the street, putting a gun to her head, and saying, "Don't worry, I'll save you FROM ME!" and then walking away whistling.

OMG, first you get me laughing hysterically over the Great Googity Moogity (the most appropriate description ever) and then you provide the best analogy ever.  Yes.  That's exactly what it is.  I will save you from me.  Which is why he thinks destroying people saves them.  It all makes sense now.  I must consult the magic 8 ball.

[Voodoo-j]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Lest you think that game companies are not gearing up to find every way possible to squeeze the money out of you....

http://www.gameinfor...s.aspx#comments

This is of course a hardware maker, but if this happens software devs have to sign on as well.

This will never happen, not in any purchased software, people will rise up tell them where to stick their adds.

[daveyeisley]

Archonsg wrote...

And since we are on the subject of fan made ME stuff,
Tali's Song

Yeah, I am a Talimancer.
And yeah, I am pissed they used a god damned stock photo for Tali's face.

Which brings us back to the ending. So much could have been done.
*looks at 24 save games and sighs*
Played one and the rest...just don't have the heart to do so.

Thank you.

I am very much a Talimancer. That was awesome

[daveyeisley]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Thought this was kinda cool

This!
I loled!  I bet Gilbert and Sulivan are rolling in their graves. 

Hilarious.  Thanks for sharing LS.

Yeah, that was hilarious. My buddies across the hall were all looking at me like I was nuts for laughing out loud out of the blue. LOL

[daveyeisley]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I've also got another ending that makes more sense than what the game gave us.

(Shepard falls before the podium, and the magic elevator takes him upstairs.)

Shep: What? Where am I? Who are you?"
A Duck: "AFLAC!!!!"

THE END.

Now, can you do one with Conrad?

[daveyeisley]

3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

But again, it's not. We either get a truncated vision and a partial game (after BioWare SWORE it was "complete out of the box. Which is already bull**** {Cough, From Ashes, Cough} but okay...) or we get the Great Googity Moogity showing up at the last moment to save the world from... himself. Bull ****. That's like grabbing a woman on the street, putting a gun to her head, and saying, "Don't worry, I'll save you FROM ME!" and then walking away whistling.

OMG, first you get me laughing hysterically over the Great Googity Moogity (the most appropriate description ever) and then you provide the best analogy ever.  Yes.  That's exactly what it is.  I will save you from me.  Which is why he thinks destroying people saves them.  It all makes sense now.  I must consult the magic 8 ball.

QFT

[JoJohnson117]

I really hope that in the end the indoctrination theory is wrong. Even if it seems to be the only way to justify just how stupid the ending really is. If IT is correct then we are left with only one choice that is correct and two that will doom shepard and the entire cycle and all cycles to come. I wish that the crucible did not destroy the mass relays either. How come no matter how much readiness I had the relays always had to be blown up. My opinion is that Bioware can right their wrong when they bring out the EC DLC.

I really hope that the series will continue and that we will be able to explore what happens now that the reapers are gone or at least no longer a threat. Will the Krogans want revenge? Could the Geth really be trusted? Where will humanity stand now that it has been revealed that the only reason the Asari discovered the Citadel was because of the knowledge of the Protheans?

If Bioware does make an ME4 I believed that you should be playing as a customisable character with the possibility of most ME3's MP characters. You would be under the command of the new Council and would carry out peacekeeping missions with a new set of squad members. It would be best set years after Shepard has passed away and he is seen as an icon and there are statues in his remembrance. This way you could import your choices from the ME3 and hear about the actions Shepard did. Maybe you could meet Conrad's son or Liara's/any romances of shepards daughter/son. They could join your squad and if you did not romance anyone there would be an alternate squad member to replace that spot.

The new Normandy should come equipped with amazing advancements you received after defeating the Reapers and no longer would there be elevators. Instead you could simply beam to the floor on the Normandy that you wanted to go on. A new citadel would also be interesting this time with missions and interactivity more like ME1. You could even be a member of C-sec. A very large selection of squad members and a more unified dialogue system would be needed. I would also like you to be able to talk to your squad members about multiple things as I felt that the crew in ME3 had little dialogue. But I just want to say thank you Bioware for giving everyone such a fun and different experience in gaming even if even if the ending wasn't the strong point the journey was well worth it.

[Redbelle]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Lest you think that game companies are not gearing up to find every way possible to squeeze the money out of you....

http://www.gameinfor...s.aspx#comments

This is of course a hardware maker, but if this happens software devs have to sign on as well.

If this is what Sony are going to slip into it's products then like old god of Dragon Age it is evil and must be stopped before it lays eggs!

One of the greatest things about gaming is that it plants the gamer in control of a world. Be it a sport football sim or an intergalactic fight to survival. Taking away full control to pause the game and pop an add on screen that will essentially say things like, 'Buy yourself a sandwich...... cause your worth it', is a step to far. Micro transactions I will accept cause I understand the relationship between exchanging currency for products and/or services, it's a basic economic principle. But selling advertising space in their products which affects gameplay??? Billboards and rendered shop fronts in game don't seem as bad in comparison after hearing Sony's plan. (Hoping it's just in preliminary testing stage and they will realise pausing our playthroughs to sell stuff is a bad idea).

Btw, since this is a ME forum and given that over the course of this thread some ppl have expressed the belief that ME3 ending was fine because BW had the right to end it anyway they wanted, because it was theirs.......... How do those individuals respond to Sony's idea of selling advertising and displaying it by interrupting our play throughs? Because arguing the semantics aside of the two issues aside what it comes down to is 2 companies doing what they think is right. But is it right by their customers or right for their profit margins?

Before we all jump in on this though it should be noted that the world is not doing so well financially and these companies are probably feeling the pinch too. In that regard it makes sense that they are looknig to increase their income. Selling advertising may impact the experience of game play, but we won't have to pay extra for it.

Any thoughts? Maybe suggestions on how advertising like this should work from a player perspective?

Modifié par Redbelle, 26 mai 2012 - 08:52 .

[Andy the Black]

Voodoo-j wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Lest you think that game companies are not gearing up to find every way possible to squeeze the money out of you....

http://www.gameinfor...s.aspx#comments

This is of course a hardware maker, but if this happens software devs have to sign on as well.

This will never happen, not in any purchased software, people will rise up tell them where to stick their adds.

Right. If this happens the backlash would make the fan outrage to the Mass 3 ending look like a ant having a slight tantrum. SONY have got to be off their rocker to think people would stand for that crap.

[darkway1]

It sounds like I'm crazy but that idea of using advertising could work used in the right context.

A great example is a game called ALAN WAKE,each level in the game is handled like a tv episode,so you have a intro,middle and an end,including music and credits.....putting in a few commercials between levels would work as it's in context to the games format.

The subject does bring up many interesting idea's,I can see people wanting to advertise in games like Fifa,MW,Mariocart etc but who's gonna want to advertise in Resident Evil,Slaughter House,even Mass Effect is a mixed bag,people slam the game because there are no gay "LI" and then slam it because there are gay "LI".
I read some where a top 10 list of unethical videogames produced by a Christian group,in the number one slot was Fable,why,because you could hit your in-game wife,the group classed this as a game that featured wife beating???? ........I don't know how advertisers would respond to such diverse attitudes.Would controversial content be avoided if advertisers got evolved.???,we have seen the industry changed by the introduction of DLC,if advertising provided more money then it could have a huge impact on gaming content.

[Archonsg]

I am just surprised that EA hasn't already had placement adds. Imagine a wall advertising holo with ;


"Blasto prefers Pepsi, the galactic beverage of choice! "This one cannot get enough of Pepsi, nectar of the Enkindlers!"

Or, "No matter where you are, from Omega to the Citadel, when you see those double golden arches, you know you have a taste of home. MacDonald's! The galaxy's loving it!"

Ps: One last one, to keep this in line with theme of the thread;

"Here at Dunkin Doughnuts, we make Doughnuts a vorcha would kill for! All doughnuts come with your choice of frosting, RED, BLUE OR GREEN."

 

Modifié par Archonsg, 26 mai 2012 - 12:52 .

[Redbelle]

Archonsg wrote...

I am just surprised that EA hasn't already had placement adds. Imagine a wall advertising holo with ;


"Blasto prefers Pepsi, the galactic beverage of choice! "This one cannot get enough of Pepsi, nectar of the Enkindlers!"

Or, "No matter where you are, from Omega to the Citadel, when you see those double golden arches, you know you have a taste of home. MacDonald's! The galaxy's loving it!"

Ps: One last one, to keep this in line with theme of the thread;

"Here at Dunkin Doughnuts, we make Doughnuts a vorcha would kill for! All doughnuts come with your choice of frosting, RED, BLUE OR GREEN."

 

Tee Hee Hee

If developers put that much care and attention into advertising that it becomes a part of their game world, rather than an intrusion of our world into theirs, I could live with it.

The whole, auto pause for ad's, plan by Sony seems a pretty weak idea compared to the last few post's reinterpretation of the concept.

Modifié par Redbelle, 26 mai 2012 - 01:10 .

[Archonsg]

That is because for the most part, with a few notable exceptions, we Bioware fans are a creative, intelligent and pretty imaginative lot.

So, it does boggles the mind that they won't acknowledge the faults we see in the current ending.
Oh wait, we are supposed to be untutored philistines without any appreciation of "art".

[Holger1405]

Archonsg wrote...



Its called the "forlorn hope".
For situations so FUBARed, you know you are going to die but stay in the fight anyways because no matter what you do you do not expect to live, but damned if you are just going to lay down and die.

I do understand the concept of officers and responsibility of holding the balance of life vs objectives.


Case in point, the during the Quarian theater of conflict, the Quarian commander decided that Shepard and team was expandable even when it wasn't necessary for them to come to this conclusion. It was his right of course being the commander on the ground but in doing so, showed how little he valued life over the objective of taking down a Geth super dreadnought. An objective, which success hinged on the very people whose lives he was so willing to throw away when he did not need to.


I do agree with you though that there are times when things are so FUBARed, there won't be a choice.

Just that in this case, it wasn't necessary, nor did it needed to be so, contrary to what some believe.

Victory done well and right, would have not just have brought the player out of the bleak dark trench he has been fighting in all this while, victory could be like rain after a firefight, washing away sweat, battle fatigue and tears of friends lost.

I also want to point out that this is a game.

Being so, It could have had multiple paths, all leading to different resolutions and this was possibly the biggest draw for everyone who bought the game especially if they are veterans from ME1 and 2. They were told there would be multiple paths, it was advertised as a game with multiple paths and to see the end as it was, where all the paths artificially merged into a single conflict resolution, is a slap to the face.

I think its all the little things that adds up for me, to make me so disgusted with the whole deal.
Given I do think that the game is a 90/100 up to that final last minutes, and while there were other nagging little inconsistencies, wasn't "story breaking" or out of character.

Do understand that I am a fan of MULTIPLE endings, not just one "FUBARed" ending.

ME2's complete jackass play is an example. You REALLY have to work at it to get everyone in your team and Shepard killed but damn, it was hilarious playing and watching that train wreck plough through till it finally crashed and burned with Shepard dead.

On the flip side, I could save everyone and win decisively.

As for the sacrifice option, I believe Dragon Age : Origins handled that one best. It is still one of my favorite game play since I know that my Warden was just too idealistic to save himself. He died a hero's death because HE (the player) CHOSE to. Unlike what we got in ME3 where death is forced onto Shepard. Thus for this reason, Shepard's death, cannot be counted as a "sacrifice".

Well the problem is that a "win decisively" ending would render any "you have to sacrifice something" ending pointless, because it would be unwise to sacrifice yourself or others if you can win this in so doing.
Bioware wanted their "Bittersweet" ending, looking to the Mass Effect storyline, I can understand why they made this decision.

I admit, I am on the good side of the line here, because if Bioware are true to their statement, and only adjusting the endings, they will most probably fix the issues I have with it. If not, and they actual changing the endings, well, I could life very well with a full-blown Happy End. 

Either way, I hope the DLC will bring you at least something you like.

[3DandBeyond]

Holger1405 wrote...


Well the problem is that a "win decisively" ending would render any "you have to sacrifice something" ending pointless, because it would be unwise to sacrifice yourself or others if you can win this in so doing.
Bioware wanted their "Bittersweet" ending, looking to the Mass Effect storyline, I can understand why they made this decision.

I admit, I am on the good side of the line here, because if Bioware are true to their statement, and only adjusting the endings, they will most probably fix the issues I have with it. If not, and they actual changing the endings, well, I could life very well with a full-blown Happy End. 

Either way, I hope the DLC will bring you at least something you like.

The thing is you are basing your opinion on what you want to see as an ending, but most of us see things differently.  You are entitled to want a sacrificial ending.  That's fine.  If you see the ending that is as a sacrificial one well great for you.  Personally, I see it as stupidity personified.  That does not mean I think you are stupid-I think they do want things seen as sacrificial.  I just don't think it works, well it doesn't work for me. 

In order to view it your way (at least partly because I still see it as dying or killing without using the brain), one must be meta-gaming.  That means you are seeing things as the player and you know the outcome.  This is contrary to what Casey Hudson said was how Bioware wanted players to end up playing the games.  The view was that you would see things as Shepard, not the player.

Casey Hudson:

"The Citadel is really big in this game. It’s bigger than it’s ever
been, in terms of stuff to do. But yeah, it’s those moments where
there’s fun and silly, neat stuff to explore. Once you get out into the
missions, it returns to seeing the face of the galactic war. What we’re
doing with Mass Effect 3 that’s a little bit different than what we’ve
done before is exploring the idea of getting the player to understand
and feel what Commander Shepard is experiencing versus just reacting to
other characters.

We end up exploring some spaces that maybe have never been done
before. Because interactive storytelling is still kind of new, there are
neat things to try. One of the things we’re trying in Mass Effect 3 is
the idea that we can let you feel something that is part of that
character’s experience versus strictly getting you to react to things
that you see and experience. We’re trying to tell a little bit of the
story Shepard would feel and seeing if the player feels that as well.
You saw that on the Earth mission, and you see it throughout the game.
It’s insight into how Shepard feels. I think that’s going to be one of
the things people remember."

What Shepard sees and knows is all that is revealed up to that point.  S/he knows Control has been the choice of the unscrupulous and it has failed, because they've been lied to when told they could control anything.  Shepard knows Synthesis is wrong.  It is deciding for others.  It is the end of evolution.  Shepard told EDI that there is more to life than merely surviving.  Your Shepard may not have said this, but A Shepard could and any choice that does not take into account each Shepard is a non-choice.  Destroy is similar to this, in that A Shepard could make choices that would render it abhorrent.  EDI says to MY Shepard that Joker unshackled her and that she learned much from others but the reason she truly felt alive was due to Shepard.  Destroy kills what Shepard gave life to.

So in my game, MY Shepard sees all 3 choices as non-choices.  Dying in making one of them is not sacrifice because sacrifice implies it is for the greater good.  The choices are not the greater good.

It is also so that MY Shepard would in no way trust what the star kid is saying.  Any human being standing at the precipice with the guy that has controlled the things that wish to kill trillions is the epitome of evil and not to be believed at all.  In fact, what the ending does is it changes the reapers from being the true evil into merely mindless beings under the control of glow boy.  They may not have any desire to do anything, but are merely acting upon the kid's desire.  So, no MY Shepard should and would not follow this kid's wishes.  As I've said the kid could be lying and if Shepard makes any choice it could turn the Crucible into a help the reaper's harvest faster weapon.  No one knows what the Crucible is supposed to do. 

Beyond that, there is no reason that a decisive win ending would preclude the inclusion of a truly sacrificial one.  Different gameplay was supposed to lead to vastly different endings.  I'd think also if you really mess up a lot within the game there could be a fullblown lose everything ending with an aftermath.  But a sacrificial ending could be something someone might have to have if maybe all the assets weren't there or for some other reason.

For the record, I don't see this ending as bittersweet at all.  Where's the sweet?  I certainly hope they don't think that was it when Joker and pals got off the crashed Normandy.  We've all said that's a truly childish scene.  So, I don't see anything sweet at all.

And just so you realize I do understand that your Shepard might make different choices from mine and might see things differently.  But again if any one type of Shepard sees things a certain way, then the game has failed if it didn't take that into account.  It would be like being forced to shoot Tali in the face for no good reason, after having had her as a Love Interest. 

And to make sure you do understand if I say something is dumb or stupid or brainless, it's not that I think you are.  On the contrary, I don't.  For me, the ending just is-all that we are expected to believe.  I put myself fully in the role of Shepard and I don't believe Shepard would follow their logic.  Most of the stuff that Shepard must do seems artificially imposed up him/her and not something that If I were Shepard, I could do.  This is the test for me and the ending failed the test.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 26 mai 2012 - 03:38 .

[3DandBeyond]

Redbelle wrote...

Snipped....

Btw, since this is a ME forum and given that over the course of this thread some ppl have expressed the belief that ME3 ending was fine because BW had the right to end it anyway they wanted, because it was theirs..........

The big problem with everyone that keeps saying that BW had the right to do things their way, it's their game, have not read what Casey Hudson and other BW bigwigs have said.

They have spoken of the games being as much the fans as theirs, as a collaboration.  They've talked about the fans not only determining the outcomes within the games but they've talked about the whole project as being a meeting of the minds, that fans help shape the direction.

I actually can believe that in part this may be true-there's every indication that they at least do know how we play the game.  I mean we can opt in to giving them feedback on our games.  So, who knows what info is compiled.  I'm not talking about paranoia here, but I am talking about data mining.  It would be an incredibly huge task to keep track of such things, but not undoable.  At least, they do know if we play MP or SP if we are signed into the network.

However, the ending really is "their vision" and not a fan based one.  I really can't see fans coming up with such a conglomeration of surreal events.

I don't think people that say they like the ending ever thought it would end like this.  I am in fact sure they figured the Crucible would shoot and destroy the reapers and then we'd see if Shepard lived or died and all.  I am sure most people figured there'd be scenes of Krogans on dino back, of Jack's kids using their biotics and of Shepard and team fighting Harbinger.

[3DandBeyond]

I personally think they all should have disregarded building the Crucible and put everyone to work making as many Cains as possible and then distributing them to everybody. Scenes of people jumping out airlocks on suicide missions with their multi-ammo nextgen Cains in hand, floating toward the nearest reaper.