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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#2151
bwFex

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I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

Modifié par bwFex, 15 mars 2012 - 11:09 .


#2152
majinbuu1307

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Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment? :)




:devil:


I don't know, why don't I get back to you on my favorite moment when more people beat the game and I come to a consensus. 

#2153
DeadLetterBox

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Thank you for this post. It lets me know that even though I am unhappy, BioWare is still a company that listens. I've always appreciated that.

#2154
Maakeff

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Chris Priestly wrote...

What was your favorite moment?


Mine was precisely when Mordin, at the top of the Shroud tower, knowing he was about to die, started contentedly humming "I am the very model of a..."

That was the bit that broke me, and rendered me unable to come back to the game for an hour without tears streaming down my face again. I'm going to be remember that for a long, long time to come, I hope.

#2155
Dark Wyn

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There are many MANY moments from my hours of ME over the years. From ME1 all the way through ME3.
But it's too hard to even try to talk about them now. Whatever that is we were left with for endings ((if you can even use plural)) does so much damage that it nearly negates EVERYTHING we've done these past 6 years.

#2156
Zu Long

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Outside of the last 6 minutes, I loved the whole game. If I had to choose a particular favorite part, it would probably be the various goodbyes with each squadmate right before the end. That was actually really well done. The problems only started at the Starchild (I really wanted to argue with him) and afterwards.

#2157
Shadowcat101

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I’ll admit that I was not all that happy with the ending. It is an ending, be it one with big plot holes, but and ending never the less.
Simple fix, would be DLC that if done, would give you a different outcome. If programming that is possible with the game. They could make one for each LI, each one with a different outcome. And think of all the money they would make off all the DLCs if they did that.

Or just one big one that had it all in one. There are so many possibilities      

#2158
robx4670

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The best moments for me were mShep and Kaidan together. Waited for this since ME1 and when it finally happened it felt as if it was always ment to be... best romance for me in the game.
And then after the ending for the first time I can remember I sat in front of my PC and cried over a video game because I felt betrayed, like someone just wrenched all my best friends from me out of the blue with some evil trickery and leaving me to rot in a hell of dark depressing sadness. So right now all I really care about is Shep getting out of this rubble, throwing those Reapers back into the fires of Mount Doom and getting back to his friends we journeyd with for 5 years.

#2159
Micah3sixty

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Wow, this thread is growing faster than I can read and keep up! I loved the 99.9% of the game up until ghost boy showed up. The plot holes introduced in the three ending options just didn't fit and left the galaxy in nearly as bleak an outlook as if the reapers continued to harvest civilization. I hope this is not the real ending but a public indoctrination experiment meant to delay the real ending until all global markets have had ample time to buy and begin playing ME 3. Keeping fingers crossed...

#2160
SUBTERRANEANguy

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I have played through the 3 best ending choices and have to be honest and say that, although slightly convoluted plot wise, (with the citadel being used yet again as the key to everything rather lazily written,) I actually think the 3 choices given at the end were both intelligent and a much more legitimate ending than having Shepard safe and in the arms of his love interest gazing at the stars. The kids have The Twilight Saga for that. Romanticism and a happy ever after would have been MORE of a cop-out from bioware. Like I said, although slightly convoluted, give me gritty bleak realism any time. FAV CHARACTER: the underrated and underused Kashmir.

#2161
stargatefan1990

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i loved the part were no matter what i chose the Mass relays exploded and ended galactic civilization(i cried thinking about that huge fleet stuck on near earth, a slower galactic extinction) oh and i particularly loved the nonsensical cutscene with joker and crew seriously loe i loved it all except the ending/s

#2162
DarthSyphilis59

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Everything form Mass Effect1, 2, and 3 leading up to the final end game was just absolutely amazing, it was building up to be the greatest sci-fi series of all time..........................but the last five minutes-a punch in the gut.
We all love Mass Effect, or we would not be here trying to fight for it. :)

Look, if you really want to know what most of us who aren't happy with the ending in detail, this guy said it best:



Please watch. I love mass effect! <3 I want the series to be remembered for being the best series ever, not having the most contraversial ending ever. :)

#2163
ashayet_casis

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Though I am usually pretty reticent online, my unhappiness and disappointment with the ending of Mass Effect 3 has spurred me to add to the discussion going on here. It’s the apparent belief that the ending created “lots of speculation from everyone” that I really have a problem with.

To begin with, the idea that everybody is, or should be, ‘speculating’ about the ending shows a remarkable lack of understanding. In order to speculate about something, you must first have a solid base to extrapolate from – an idea, or a truth that you understand and that makes sense. What people are doing right now is desperately trying to find some understanding where there is none to be had, because nothing about the ending as it stands makes any sense in relation to the contents of the game. Without that understanding it is impossible to speculate, because there is no basic understanding of an idea to expand upon: people are feeling empty because there is simply nothing there of any substance.

We don’t have this basic understanding to build on because, apparently, we simple video game consumers didn’t need to know the answers to any of the rather essential questions we would have asked. How can we speculate on anything when the material required to do so is something we didn’t need to know?

Secondly, the insidious insinuation that this lack of understanding is somehow the fault of us, the consumer. The fundamental truth here is that when information is being communicated, the onus is on the person doing to the communicating to make sure that their audience understands what they are trying to tell them. It is the job of Bioware as the creator of a video game, and interactive product, to communicate the ideas behind and in the game to us effectively, so we can understand and enjoy the product. When a huge number of your consumers, from all ages, levels of education, nations and language groups simply don’t understand what you are trying to say to them, then it is your failure, not ours.

Finally, ending a trilogy that people cherished and invested in with a dialogue box saying ‘congratulations you beat the Reapers, now buy DLC’ is bordering on obscene, and is an insult to our intelligence.

My favourite moment? I don’t have one, not anymore. The first two games have been irrevocably tainted for me because of this situation with the ending – how can I appreciate Commander Shepard when you don’t, when you take all the value away from everything he/she has ever accomplished? I didn’t really expect respect for the fans who have invested in Mass Effect – I like to think that I’m not that naïve – but I expected you, as the creators of something that was wonderful, to have enough self-respect not to allow everything that made Mass Effect great to be destroyed like this.

Modifié par ashayet_casis, 15 mars 2012 - 11:01 .


#2164
Veginator

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I don't want any questions answered.

I want a new ending.  I'm willing pay for it.

This is not a request, it's an ultimatum.

#2165
Chaia

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Well depending on what BioWare does with the ending over the next month or so, I'll either love it or hate it, at the moment I don't like it (not hate at the mo, just....meh) BUT the bits I did like were:

- the interactions between squadmates (Joker asking Liara about her 'hair tentacles,' Garrus and Tali hooking up)/taking shore leave on the Citadel/moving around the ship (seeing Tali drunk was hilarious), gives the characters some more depth.
- the imports/choices from ME1 & 2 coming through (like keeping/distroying Maelon's genophage cure data)
- Legion refering to himself as 'I' and EDI's questions about life.
- the interactions between Shepard and his LI (gives him more depth on the personal side) although I would have liked more done on it, like the other characters commenting on it or something (liked Wrex's comment about Liara getting windows)
- death scenes of characters like Mordin were brilliat, very sad, but thats the point.
- making peace between the Geth and the Quarians.
- the changes the Citadel goes though during the game (although I wish someone would put out those fires/smoke in the Commons after the attack by Cerberus)

Thessia, was amazing everything from how the Asari commandos to Kai Leng were handled, it was brilliant (the only down side to it was it was too short, wanted to see more of Thessia), it came in at a close second, but if I had to choose one part of the game that stood out most, that would easily be:

Tuchanka - in ME1 didn't really know much about the genophage, in ME2 I could (and still now) understand why it was done, it was necessary at the time. When it came to ME3 I still really didn't know if curing it or not would be a good idea, even whilst talking to the Salarian Dalatrass, told Wrex I would cure it and so on to get peace. But the queston of curing it or not still nagged at the back of my mind.
Until I got to the old Krogan ruins, wow, after nearly three games of not 100% knowing if curing it or not was a good idea, there and then I knew I wanted to cure it, espically after seeing green plant life growing again; also, loved the Kalros vs Reaper fight scene.

#2166
Gropo the Great

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Terrible ending. I was looking forward to purchasing any DLC released for ME3, and picking up the DLC I missed for ME1 and 2 (Arrival, etc) and playing through them all together.

After knowing how futile the ending of the trilogy is, I don't really want to play them again. I may do it some day, but unless the ending is fixed, I won't spend another cent and I'll turn the game off after Anderson and Shep check out the view.

#2167
Esquin

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Don't let them distract us! Don't let them dismiss the issues with the ending. Don't let them deflect from the horrible ending they created by trying to highlight the positives. We will prevail. Hold the Line! Keep the pressure on! We'll tell them what we liked about this game, when they tell us when we're getting our ending!

Keelah se'lai!

#2168
Almostfaceman

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I already tweeted you Chris, yesterday. But it's fine, you're listening. 

The game was really great at bringing me even closer to my squad, even closer to the ME universe. The dialogue for the most part was well written and fleshed out the characters even further. The music was excellent, even bringing back some music from previous games I didn't really care too much about, it brought a sense of nostalgia. The graphics and the "camera work" were cinematic and the highest level achieved in all three games. 

And the nonsense at the end brought it all down like the Titanic.

I would prefer more choices, including a choice that if you've really built up your army, your fleet, your alliances, there is a way to live. The end result of those choices should tie directly in with the fate of my squad, whom I've been with for three games.

I would prefer that the Normandy continue to be Shep's backup (like it has for three games) instead of for some unknown reason it disappears and leaves Shep stranded on the Citadel.

I would prefer that if we have to kill the relays, and that if this is going to be the end of your Mass Effect universe, you give us some closure on what happens after the relays - and yes tie this in to how well we prepared during the last three games. An Epilogue like that of Baldur's Gate 2 Throne of Bhaal or Dragon Age Origins is needed to conclude a story that so deftly emotionaly ties us to our squad. We don't care about the generic fate of the galaxy 50,000 years from now. Mordin said as much in Mass Effect 2 when talking about his nephew. We want closure on the Krogan, the Turians, etc. not some vague promise that life forms we know nothing about are cheerfully copulating in the distant future.

I would suggest that you eliminate "Space Magic". People could barely stomach the Resurrection of Shepard, nobody is buying the concept that some beam somehow is going to change the genetic structure of every organic. That's ridiculous. If the Reapers could have done this, they would have done this, thus ending supposedly the need for their cycle. They don't mind imposing order, at all. Shepard, on the other hand, would not even consider such a choice as it would rob the survivors of their genetic heritage - Who They Are As A Species.

I've taken the time to be here and give feedback, because I genuinely love the Mass Effect universe and the story you told and let us shape with our choices.  I don't think Bioware is trolling us. I'm not asking for anyone to be fired. I think you just made a mistake. Happens. I make mistakes all the time. But I think you should own this mistake and make it right for the fans. The only thing that could happen is you make us happy and we continue to buy your products. That's it. Nobody's gonna knock you guys for trying to fix something. Happens all the time, it's called patches and DLC.

#2169
IsleySilverlord

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Best part is when you turn off the game.

#2170
David Bergsma

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http://dl.dropbox.co...31849716659.jpg

#2171
Johnny Zhou

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there are so many best moments in ME3, Mordin's death, Thane's death, Geth and Quarian, Garrus shooting bottles, Liara's recording, etc. But all of them are destroyed by the ****ty ending.

#2172
stargatefan1990

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SUBTERRANEANguy wrote...

I have played through the 3 best ending choices and have to be honest and say that, although slightly convoluted plot wise, (with the citadel being used yet again as the key to everything rather lazily written,) I actually think the 3 choices given at the end were both intelligent and a much more legitimate ending than having Shepard safe and in the arms of his love interest gazing at the stars. The kids have The Twilight Saga for that. Romanticism and a happy ever after would have been MORE of a cop-out from bioware. Like I said, although slightly convoluted, give me gritty bleak realism any time. FAV CHARACTER: the underrated and underused Kashmir.


i get enough "Gritty Realism" from my work and general life so what if i want an ending(should be hard to get ) were me and my LI live happily ever after?

#2173
WitchKing410

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The entire game was amazing, yes the ending was a bit of a let down, but not enough to detract significantly from such a great experience. As far as favorite moment goes...I would probably say Anderson's death at the end, Keith David just nails his lines. 

#2174
avmf8

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garf wrote...

Akael_Bayn wrote...

Quick, deflect the topic to something positive!

...yeah, we're not stupid, you know?
Don't give us this "We don't want to spoil things for people who aren't done BS.  How about a straight answer about where all the many and varied endings we were promised went?


I appreciate and empthasize with you. But  one of two situations is true.

either indoc theory or some equally awesome plot is in the works that will entitle the genius who thought it up to get a salute from Allan Funt when he arrives in troll heaven OR They had no idea.

If the former. The earliest you can expect to hear anything definitive from them is at least 30 hours after the first Normandies from the 'Asiatic Fleet' have sailed. To expect otherwise is... 'entitled' perhaps? It's frustrating and stupidly long I know and I agree. but that IS reality.

If the latter... they need to spin this neutrally as long as they can so that whatever they DO come up with doesn't splotch more egg on their faces. Again this will take time ... sucks but raging at some schmuck in pr, won't do anything but make the poor guy/gal consider new career options as a tax auditor or insurance adjuster.




If some one diecided on a job in PR and can't take abuse which they obvoiouslly will take in Pr for anything they should not be doing that job.  Besides what is the point of having PR people? It is the same as saying nothing.

If this takes them time I will be upset by it for that time. They turned me off playing games and they may have destroyed my desire to play them. After the dissapointing trash that I have unknowingly bought over the past 7 months has really put me off gaming.

I am on the endge of not liking games anymore then Bioware pushed me off the edge. They need to tell me if there is a plan here because they have ruined gaming for me. If they are doing a little stunt and there stunt effects my enjoyment of gaming they need to fix that.

Too me I don't care what the sceneario really is they still made a bad choice. Only thing that changes is what bad choice did they make.

#2175
Vamp44

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Stop deflecting.