3DandBeyond wrote...
Keep in mind that even if Shepard and friends lived and the reapers were destroyed with nothing else changed beyond what has already happened, the ending still would not be some overblown easy happy thing. Billions of people have already died. Friends still lay dead. The reapers bodies lay literally everywhere or make their presence known as they float idle in space. The aftermath itself is bitter even if everything else was intact. Earth, Palaven, Thessia, and so on are in shambles at best-indications are that Thessia suffered the most and a huge percentage of the Asari have been wiped out. This is not utopia.
You see a sad ending as the only possibility and I'm sorry but it's not. It's not even the easiest nor the cheapest. Having a hero die for no good reason other than to fulfill some kind of obligatory idea that happy is cliche and the safest or easiest to do is plain wrong. Drama is far easier to do than comedy. It is much easier to kill off someone than to see them overcome the aftermath. Both can be done well and both should have been included within the ending. In fact, in the aftermath people need live heroes more than they need dead ones. And seeing someone rise from the ashes can have an even more powerful emotional impact than knowing that they died.
Actually, all along the game set the player up to believe Shepard would die. It's in the last words to Thane, it's in the constant talk about who would die, in the dreams, and everywhere.
But, I stll say that what we got was just mostly the gratuitous death of Shepard. Shepard as most of us see it, did not die for some noble reason because none of the choices make sense. And they don't make sense because the evil kid offered them. Shepard does not know what making a choice will really mean. The whole setup could be a lie. Shepard continually says no one knows what the Crucible will do-Shepard also keeps asking if they've found out what it would do and no one knows. They don't even know who started the design of it. So, all these great minds can't tell if it's for good or evil (could be a gun in the hands of a child as Shepard says to Liara), but if a few short minutes Shepard believes the little evil guy who's been killing trillions of people? If Shepard dies for any of this it is not for a noble cause-at that point, Shepard is saying that s/he doesn't know what else to do and is done trying.
But beyond all this there is no reason not to have a happy as well as a sad ending. No reason at all. Look how many of us want a possible happy ending? Why would any company especially a game company deny that and risk losing this many paying customers? That doesn't mean I want some cheap and easy happy ending. I want it to be done with the same sensitivity as the rest of the games were. And I'd want it to have some context of the overall picture and aftermath. As I said, that's when they need live heroes the most, to reclaim their shattered souls and lives. To help bring people together to rebuild and to learn how to live again. At that point they will have done well learning how to fight together against a common foe, but learning to live together (all these old enemies) will take some monumental efforts and leaders with a vision. It could have been amazing.
And no, you can't reach these conclusions just in the game. It absolutely is meta-gaming. Shepard sees the kid as the killer of whole civilizations-the kid had the power all along to stop this and didn't. The kid now says he will let Shepard stop it? It's inconceivable that any person would think he's being truthful. Someone else put it best. The kid is telling Shepard "I will save you from me". That can never make sense to anyone and in order to believe it you would have to know what happens after making a choice. You'd have to know that he was telling the truth, but Shepard would not believe him. And that means Shepard stops being Shepard if s/he makes a choice.
Maybe I didn't made myself clear enough: I don't want a sad ending!
I agree, (also with No_MSG who made the same point two sides before.) even a perfect solution in the very end would be already a "Bittersweet" ending (and not a "happily ever after" ending) because of the great casualties and lost friends.
But I still understand way Bioware didn't go this way.
First of all, it's their Game, no statement from them about Fan involvement changes that. Bioware started this universe on their own terms, and they have every right to end it the same way.
Second: All three Mass Effect games, especially ME3, place philosophical questions, upon others: How far will you go to succeed? What are you willing to sacrifice? Javik refers to this, Garrus, Joker and also EDI. This questions is visible throughout the whole Game and I think that Bioware's goal was to bring this into the endings.
Now to the Catalyst:
My initial reaction to the Catalyst was pretty close to yours Archonsg
Archonsg wrote...
Right at the point when starbrat said "The Reapers are mine. I control them ...."
During that few nano seconds that took to register, I went from "W.T.F?! is this?!" to " W.T.F?! You, you are behind all this, you made the reapers kill every organic who could do calculus every 50,000 years, you little bloody murderous ****!"
Well indeed very close, I don't try to shot him, because I figured shooting a being of light wouldn't do much good, but I did looked for the damn plug of that thing. however then.... I come to your question.
Archonsg wrote...
What I want to know is, how do those who find the starbrat's statement to be trust worthy that they are willing to accept it without question, and this is important, because if you at any point doubt the truth of the Starbrat's words, than why in all that is holy did you think it was a good idea to accept ANY choice or to think that ANY choice given by the Starbrat is "good"?
That goes double for Shepard. Why would Shepard, who does not have the player's outside "god's point of view" accept or trust anything said by Starbrat?
If Shepard simply walk up to the Catalyst you would be right with no doubt. I stated before that Shepard had to trust unreliable sources before but I admit that this explanation isn't good enough, not when everything is at stake.
However, just before you met the Catalyst, there is a little sequence:
Shepard is sitting next to Anderson as he lost consciousness/dies. Then you see that Shepard is badly bleeding, Hackett radio her/him, then Shepard is trying to reach the consol, collapse, and lose consciousness.
Thus, Shepard is down, she/he has no chance to achieve anything.
And then the Catalyst brings her/him up to his level. Why should the Catalyst do that? Why did he not let Shepard bleeding to dead? Go on with his cycle happily?
However, this thing is still the enemy (Today I consider him more a ambivalent character than pure evil, but that was different back then.)
Then the Catalyst stated one thing: "The Crucible changed my, created new possibilities."
And now we are on the cross-way.
Can I belief that? Can Shepard belief that? Because if the Catalyst speaks the truth, it means that this new "possibilities" didn't come from him,
they come from the Crucible and that the three end choices are not bound to Catalyst logic or his goals.
And my answer is yes, I can belief this, I can give him the benefit of the doubt, because it would make
no sense at all for the Catalyst to bring Shepard up if he hadn't changed.
I still would love to kick Catalyst a**, but the goal of my Shepard wasn't that, she wanted to stop the Reapers, save her friends, humanity and the other organic races. Now she has the opportunity to do that.
Remember, I still think that the end was bad executed, there are plot holes, and logic gaps the outcome of every choice should be made much more clear and the Catalyst should be explained better. However, it is possible that Shepard beliefs what the catalyst says without "meta-gaming" or a "god's point of view."
Modifié par Holger1405, 28 mai 2012 - 01:27 .
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again the catalyst isnt the good guy the enemy that has been destroying advanced organics for generations and then saying their going to save us from advanced synthetics but then use the geth to kill us or fight us with their reaper code after nearly destroying the galaxy and do this a thousand times over do you really think the reapers are just gonna sit down and drink milk and cookies with us I hardly doubt so 
