Aller au contenu

Photo

On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
23455 réponses à ce sujet

#21926
3DandBeyond

3DandBeyond
  • Members
  • 7 579 messages

Thanatos144 wrote...

Landon7001 wrote...

does any one disagrre that bioware should be held accountable lagally for the blatant and constant lies about their product pre release? ive just never seen any thing like it, i mean,it cant be legal. the game is the exact opposite of everything they said it would be {or wouldnt be} false advertising??

They didnt promise you anything....They can not be held responsible that
you cant tell the difference between interviews and promises.


I am sorry if you have a problem understanding simple concepts.  Promises are when someone says they will do something.  Interviews are dialogs, usually in question and answer format.  Please take an English class before humiliating yourself even further.

Apparently you think that people must hold "I promise" forums or something.  It is possible to promise things in interviews.  What rock did you crawl out from under, really?  I cannot believe anyone can be so underintelligent.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 31 mai 2012 - 05:54 .


#21927
3DandBeyond

3DandBeyond
  • Members
  • 7 579 messages

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

we all have freedom


Again, the hipocrisy, your on a roll!!!

You really do need to look up definitions of words.....



I've already provided the definition, I already knew what the word means, it appears you still lack the intellect.
(not that it was ever in question)


Geeze no.  I honestly didn't think someone could be this not brainy.

#21928
LiarasShield

LiarasShield
  • Members
  • 6 924 messages
Apparently saying things that were not kept in the game advertised or advised to be from interviews is a ok for some O_o

#21929
Archonsg

Archonsg
  • Members
  • 3 560 messages

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Wait a second, the Better Business Bureau actually weighed in on all this? I hadn't heard! Wow. I do hope that from this point onward, companies take their products, and their CUSTOMERS, more seriously.


Forbes Article

Better Business Bureau's Blog comment

Simply put, people who are in touch with Advertising Law and Business Law says Bioware misrepresented their product, Mass Effect 3. 

And then we have Ferrous Cranus ....

Who even when presented with evidence such as these, still cling to the false assumption that Bioware did nothing wrong. 

The ending wasn't as advertised. Simply put. Bioware do have a choice to fix that.
They choose not to.
We are trying to tell them, "Look, we are your fans, you may not want to admit that you are wrong, but at the least do something about it and give us something resembling what was advertised and we'll call it even."

Do I want to see Bioware fail as a company.
No.
Do I want them to see that their current practices are driving away their core fans? 
Yes.
Do I think they can keep the "shoot and scoot" crowd, while keeping us older "depth and story" crowd? 
Yes.

As is, they are more concerned with the "shoot and scoot" from every indication and every MP DLC released. 
Satisfy those who are here just to shoot things, and given a year or two close the servers down and start them on a new "DLC rich, supply packs for $2.99 a pop enviroment".

I just want the Bioware I used to know back.
I just want Mass Effect 3 to have its vastly varied and multiple endings as advertised.

Modifié par Archonsg, 31 mai 2012 - 05:56 .


#21930
3DandBeyond

3DandBeyond
  • Members
  • 7 579 messages
Apparently when bubbles was young his mom told him that unless she said "I promise" before saying he could have candy after supper or before saying they'd go to the park or anything, then it wasn't a promise. You know because people always speak so formally when talking about things.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 31 mai 2012 - 06:02 .


#21931
Voodoo-j

Voodoo-j
  • Members
  • 312 messages
What's sad, I'd rather deal with a years worth of Thanatisy bubbles then the ending as it is.
Much more enjoyable.

#21932
LiarasShield

LiarasShield
  • Members
  • 6 924 messages

Archonsg wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Wait a second, the Better Business Bureau actually weighed in on all this? I hadn't heard! Wow. I do hope that from this point onward, companies take their products, and their CUSTOMERS, more seriously.


Forbes Article

Better Business Bureau's Blog comment

Simply put, people who are in touch with Advertising Law and Business Law says Bioware misrepresented their product, Mass Effect 3. 

And then we have Ferrous Cranus ....

Who even when presented with evidence such as these, still cling to the false assumption that Bioware did nothing wrong. 

The ending wasn't as advertised. Simply put. Bioware do have a choice to fix that.
They choose not to.
We are trying to tell them, "Look, we are your fans, you may not want to admit that you are wrong, but at the least do something about it and give us something resembling what was advertised and we'll call it even."

Do I want to see Bioware fail as a company.
No.
Do I want them to see that their current practices are driving away their core fans? 
Yes.
Do I think they can keep the "shoot and scoot" crowd, while keeping us older "depth and story" crowd? 
Yes.

As is, they are more concerned with the "shoot and scoot" from every indication and every MP DLC released. 
Satisfy those who are here just to shoot things, and given a year or two close the servers down and start them on a new "DLC rich, supply packs for $2.99 a pop enviroment".

I just want the Bioware I used to know back.
I just want Mass Effect 3 to have its vastly varied and multiple endings as advertised.


Amen brother

#21933
sdinc009

sdinc009
  • Members
  • 253 messages

Thanatos144 wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
.Now I do like to post the truth but I guess to you having moved on means I should just allow lies to constantly be spread...Sorry I
have honor.



Hipocrisy on a whole new level


New word just for you!
Thanatisy - it's being a hipocrite while fantasizing you are not!

You really need to look up the definition of that word.....Unlike you I have been consistant.


Yes, you have been consistent. Consistently wrong, consistently unable to provide any argument that has merit, consistently responding to others that present reasonable complaint with one sentence remarks devoid of any logic or reason. And here's the part where you respond with a few sentences that fails to address anything stated because it's only a deflection and not a reasonable argument. And go...

#21934
Archonsg

Archonsg
  • Members
  • 3 560 messages

3DandBeyond wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

we all have freedom


Again, the hipocrisy, your on a roll!!!

You really do need to look up definitions of words.....



I've already provided the definition, I already knew what the word means, it appears you still lack the intellect.
(not that it was ever in question)


Geeze no.  I honestly didn't think someone could be this not brainy.


Need I remind you guys .... 
They BREED!

Unfortunately more so than people with intellect it seems. :lol:

Modifié par Archonsg, 31 mai 2012 - 06:03 .


#21935
3DandBeyond

3DandBeyond
  • Members
  • 7 579 messages
Actually, all bubbles is doing is randomly picking thoughts that have no relevance and then interjecting them. I'm pretty sure they were copied and pasted from someone else because they contain big words like interview.

Anyway, Archosg has the relevant items again, but this is all lost on one person. It's kind of funny that bubbles must feel lonely since he's the only one who comes on here repeatedly to say how much he loved the ending.

#21936
LeicsFox

LeicsFox
  • Members
  • 124 messages

Chris Priestly wrote...

playing games. What was your favorite moment? :)



3.the sacrifices (Thane/Mordin/Legion) 2. Saving samara for sake of her family. 1. Fleets arriving at Earth




 please more explanation/personalisation of ending + final boss fight?
 

#21937
Thanatos144

Thanatos144
  • Members
  • 924 messages
You know what????If you think you will get anywhere sue them. You would be laughed out of court but go right ahead.

#21938
Thanatos144

Thanatos144
  • Members
  • 924 messages

johncm wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

playing games. What was your favorite moment? :)



3.the sacrifices (Thane/Mordin/Legion) 2. Saving samara for sake of her family. 1. Fleets arriving at Earth




 please more explanation/personalisation of ending + final boss fight?
 


I do think it would have been cool to have a final fight with a boss......Maybe that is just cause we have all been conditioned to think this is how games are made...

#21939
Redbelle

Redbelle
  • Members
  • 5 399 messages

Thanatos144 wrote...

johncm wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

playing games. What was your favorite moment? :)



3.the sacrifices (Thane/Mordin/Legion) 2. Saving samara for sake of her family. 1. Fleets arriving at Earth




 please more explanation/personalisation of ending + final boss fight?
 


I do think it would have been cool to have a final fight with a boss......Maybe that is just cause we have all been conditioned to think this is how games are made...


Part of me wishes they could have included Harbinger in the end where you board him and have to fight through him to his Eezo core. It could be done on a timer as that level of proximity would allow indoctrination to occur. Plus Harby could be enroute to destroy the Catalyst...... the one before the SC turned up and claimed he was the catalyst......... who had been living on the citadel, not the catal...... you know, nvm. That SC is bulletproof. I should know I emptied an infinite ammo pistol into him till the Reapers came home.

Anyway, board Harby and kill him before he screws up the galaxies last chance for not becoming Reapers......... Plus other options, the idea's still work in progress.

That said I hope to see MP on board Reaper action on the grounds that the idea is bonkers

#21940
Voodoo-j

Voodoo-j
  • Members
  • 312 messages

Thanatos144 wrote...

You know what????If you think you will get anywhere sue them. You would be laughed out of court but go right ahead.


While I don't agree with that statement  BBB has already laid the ground work.
I don't think it would be favorable, it wastes $ for both sides and does not work toward restoring any confidence no matter the outcome.

For that matter, 99.9% of the game was enjoyable by nearly everyone ( cant recall anyone being completely dissatisfied)   They just want $1 back.?

There are some points that would be argued to that affect.

I just want to see what Bioware feels is the correct response, then I know how to gage my preferences with a company that has either changed or decides to continue making the games they have in the past.

#21941
Guest_BladeHero12_*

Guest_BladeHero12_*
  • Guests
Some food for thought

www.gamespot.com/features/the-customer-is-not-always-right-6379489/

I want to see an improved ending for ME3, but I can't help thinking that getting what we want might come back to bite everyone in the backside; we're walking a fine line here... 

#21942
3DandBeyond

3DandBeyond
  • Members
  • 7 579 messages

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

You know what????If you think you will get anywhere sue them. You would be laughed out of court but go right ahead.


While I don't agree with that statement  BBB has already laid the ground work.
I don't think it would be favorable, it wastes $ for both sides and does not work toward restoring any confidence no matter the outcome.

For that matter, 99.9% of the game was enjoyable by nearly everyone ( cant recall anyone being completely dissatisfied)   They just want $1 back.?

There are some points that would be argued to that affect.

I just want to see what Bioware feels is the correct response, then I know how to gage my preferences with a company that has either changed or decides to continue making the games they have in the past.


This and the fact that it's not fiscally sound for any person to do it, though someone has.  I don't agree with doing so.  I think there are so many unknowns within the whole issue and part of what people feel they've "lost" is intangible.  You can't recover damages for the loss of love of 3 video games, which is what this has done for a lot of people.  You can't attach some monetary amount to lost time or all the other items people purchased in being fans. 

And just returning that game (which is basically all that would probably be gained from this) isn't satisfactory either, because it doesn't address what the ending did to people who spent time on these games.

It also is true that to a person we have all said we loved the series, never said different, and never said Bioware sucked or that we hate them.  We've consistently praised their work, yet it is true that some things they did that were not the greatest things within the games, were more obvious because the ending did suck.  That doesn't mean we still don't love these games.  In fact, I assert that it often means we've loved them more.

You see, I don't love a lot of games and if their endings aren't the greatest, I don't care much at all.  I figure well ok, it's over.  But I did love these games, still do.  I've often thanked Bioware for their great job on them.  But the depth of our love of these games is what caused us to see just where the ending went wrong.  Brilliant minds have spoken out about this (I don't mean me at all).  Legal entities have spoken out and called Bioware to task for what they've done.  Business pros have spoken out about this.  Literary reviewers have critiqued and criticized the ending.  Fans have expressed outrage, because the ending insults our intelligence and yes, a vast number of people with more than 2 brain cells to click together have found not one, not two, not three or four, but an extreme number of problems within the ending (s), not the least of which are things that Casey Hudson specifically said would and would not be in the ending.

Pardon us for caring, but we do.  I've played video games almost as long as bubbles has been alive.  I've never played a videogame to equal even just one of the ME games, let alone all three.  ME was the videogame I've waited to play all my gaming life and I got lucky, there were three of them.  But as deep as my love of these games has been it is equaled by the depth of my disappointment in the most important part of these games, the ending.  It defies logic.  It strips all feeling from the game.  It wipes away the horror of the antagonists and replaces it with some "comic relief" pint-sized foe.  It ruins everything that came before.

Best game ever, multiplied into the 3 best games ever, reduced to almost nothing by the worst game ending ever in all the years I have played games.  Someone else put it best when they said it's the biggest gap between best and worst in gaming history.  And we see it because we are not looking at the games superficially.  We played them as contiguous stories that fit together and were interwoven by pixel characters that came to life and grew before our eyes.  This alone is one of the most awesome events in gaming.  These characters learned and grew.  But as if that weren't enough, they loved too.  Bioware created such amazing, awesome things so no, suing them isn't the way to go. 

Instead, we continue to thank them and yes, we will remind them of all the promises and they did make promises, because when you say you will or will not do something, that is a promise, and we will continue to point out the flaws, the foibles, and just where we think they went wrong.  We bought a product and have that right and we have that duty as well.  I won't walk with my money until at last I am damn sure they have ignored my wishes.  I've always felt I owed them that much for what they've given me.  When or if I do see they are totally ignoring me as a fan, that's when I stop being one.

#21943
LiarasShield

LiarasShield
  • Members
  • 6 924 messages
Everyone just wants their 16 different endings and ending the story like they said we would be able to do in the interviews misleading your audience really isn't good nor complete failure after everything you worked so hard to achieve the endings aren't really endings because it is 99 percent of the same animation with different colors

I really strife not to play games that undo everything I did during the course of those games to become undone in the final minutes or to essential still lose giving into the enemy creator who made the reapers who have destroyed organic life for centuries who is still destroying your forces during their conversation 2 out of the 3 endings the reapers live

And Vigil talked about how the reapers turn the relays off to harvest them if the relays are gone then it makes it that much easyer to harvest or destroy them


No ending is a we win ending either through sacrifice or not that wasn't cool misleading interviews isn;t cool and you can still make promises or inssertions of promises without using the word promise unless your a 10 year old child who only understands when a promise or a deal is being made by them having to say the actual word

Modifié par LiarasShield, 31 mai 2012 - 08:28 .


#21944
Voodoo-j

Voodoo-j
  • Members
  • 312 messages

BladeHero12 wrote...

Some food for thought

www.gamespot.com/features/the-customer-is-not-always-right-6379489/

I want to see an improved ending for ME3, but I can't help thinking that getting what we want might come back to bite everyone in the backside; we're walking a fine line here... 


Now see I think that is utter garbage, I loved the have to switch to the flashlight, but... I still have my copy, and have the option.  That is something Bioware hasn't given us.

#21945
3DandBeyond

3DandBeyond
  • Members
  • 7 579 messages

BladeHero12 wrote...

Some food for thought

www.gamespot.com/features/the-customer-is-not-always-right-6379489/

I want to see an improved ending for ME3, but I can't help thinking that getting what we want might come back to bite everyone in the backside; we're walking a fine line here... 


There's a big difference in the problems with the ME3 ending and in changing something like a flashlight mounting and I played Doom 3 and found it extremely annoying and didn't think it added to an already creepy atmosphere at all.  I never complained, but I didn't play it to death either.  In fact, I've played Dead Space 1 and 2 and those freaked me out way more than Doom3 with or without flashlight.  And the title is how old?  It's 8 years old and they are re-releasing it in the hope of getting more money from it, so why wouldn't they change something?

Add to that that he brought into the argument Star Wars and the changes George Lucas decided to make on his own without fan input, a case in which fans have been extremely critical and vocal and even downright angry, yet he refuses to budge from his artistic vision.

My point is neither of these have anything to do with ME3.  So ask yourself, how objective are they being in bringing up 2 things that are not even close to related to this situation?

I actually don't complain about games-only ever complained about 2 other ones among the untold hundreds I have played in my lifetime-and both had to do with the inability to play online with others that was finally fixed.  I even was in the private beta for one of those 2 games and issues that were reported to them in the beta-some bugs, never did get fixed.  

And so that leads to the point which the writer ignores, companies often beta test, so fans are inputting their feelings and on a much smaller basis than what they get from the bigger fan pool of buyers.  Beta testers are like focus groups, but now companies are using the buying public as beta testers.  In fact, the way it's going companies my have a public beta if they have one at all which is more like playing the demo that isn't ready.  And that is if you are lucky-more and more we will be buying games that are not ready.

Every company walks a fine line as to what they'd like to sell and what the public wants to buy.  This guy acts like this is a new concept.

I can tell you as someone that has dealt with this extensively, the minute you put a price tag on something, someone is going to offer an opinion.  Most often they will tell you what you should sell instead.  But, if you as a business person just ignore it when the vast majority of your customers say something, then business is not for you.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 31 mai 2012 - 08:37 .


#21946
Redbelle

Redbelle
  • Members
  • 5 399 messages

BladeHero12 wrote...

Some food for thought

www.gamespot.com/features/the-customer-is-not-always-right-6379489/

I want to see an improved ending for ME3, but I can't help thinking that getting what we want might come back to bite everyone in the backside; we're walking a fine line here... 


Interesting article, there is a difference between the Doom and the Mass Effect 3 example that I noticed. In Doom the change altered the original game play aspect of the game by removing the choice of having a gun or a light source by giving the player both at the same time. In Mass Effect the change being requested is the narrative structure, or plotting of the ending.

Game play is what keeps players coing back for more whereas the story is a seperate aspect of gameplay...... at least it was until ME took the story and tied it more firmly into the gameplay mechanic's by making conversation choices that would affect the outcome.

The outcomes from the final RBG choice were essentially devoid of any meaningful outcome as, having seen one ending, you have essentially seen them all plus or minus the minute, I'll just emphasise that, Minute details each ending has. This is very unlike BW to make an error as the company has a fantastic track record of taking a plot and branching out along the narrative, then tying it back into the main story again. The ending however did not need to be tied back into the main story........

What I have concluded from this is that either........

1. BW have got future plans for continuing the ME universe that requires what occured in game to have happened.

2. BW ran out of time and had to rush the elements of the game in which the ending took the brunt of the time constraint aspect.

or 3. BW will be releasing additonal DLC content at an near the end of the DLC production cycle in the future where the previous ending turns out not to have been the actual ending.

All these possibilities hinge off what I have seen or heard regarding the in game content and statement's, interviews etc from BW and EA. However........

If the EC DLC can tie the ending together (which I hope will be the case since they recalled the full writing team back to work on it), I speculate another possibility.......4. The original ending said exactly what they wanted to say, except they didn't say it very well for gamers to comprehend without alot of forum chatter.

@ Voodoo

It's funny but on the Tchunka mission I found myself thinking, neat, I wish I could turn on that flashlight.

I mean of all the things to do in a game I want to turn on a flashlight? Well why not, as a mechanic it could work well and form a narrative point where the light you turned on suddenyl blinks out leaving you mashing a button while something ahead of you runs across your field of vision......... It would make those underground scene's more intense. I can understand why they didn't though. The developers were staying true to the core strength of ME and adding a function that could be used for one mission could not be justified around the table.

Modifié par Redbelle, 31 mai 2012 - 08:54 .


#21947
Thanatos144

Thanatos144
  • Members
  • 924 messages
Its amazing....The reason there wont be a law suit is because Bioware did nothing criminal or that deserves to be sued for. Hey LiarasShield you got more than 16 endings in the game you just refuse to see them because of the last 3.

#21948
Voodoo-j

Voodoo-j
  • Members
  • 312 messages
There was also a hack (for the pc) where the flashlight was always on anyway. All they are doing really is re releasing a game.

#21949
Voodoo-j

Voodoo-j
  • Members
  • 312 messages
See I knew it.. something half intelligent.. and now its back to popping bubbles in Thanatisy land.

#21950
Redbelle

Redbelle
  • Members
  • 5 399 messages

Thanatos144 wrote...

Its amazing....The reason there wont be a law suit is because Bioware did nothing criminal or that deserves to be sued for. Hey LiarasShield you got more than 16 endings in the game you just refuse to see them because of the last 3.


Can you state how many endings there are if not 16?

Also, your right that BW technically did nothing illegal, however, consumer protection groups are arguing that certain statements, while factually accurate, misrepresent what actually occured to the customer base. This is fairly common amoung big companies and usually handled behind closed doors by the PR and legal team. While not criminal such a practice happens in real life to make their product look greatn but is frowned upon depending on the scale of the incident

Essentually to CPG's it does not matter what was said, what matters is how those it was aimed at took the statement. Earlier I came down on the matter of BW lying and pointed out that while they did not lie, they directed consumer expectation towards a certain point, and then arguably failed to deliver on those expectations. If these expectations had come from the consumer BW would have no case to answer. BW however stated that there would be no AB and C ending. Again, true, but consumers have decided that, due to the lack of variation, the ending was an AB and C ending.

It's all complicated and there is going to be alot of arguing and a alot of solicitors and lawyers are going to make a bit of money as people try to decide if BW should be judged on the letter of their statements, or the spirit of their statements.

Modifié par Redbelle, 31 mai 2012 - 09:13 .