23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Actually I haven't and would take kindly to you not lying about me. I
have maybe called people three or four things...Rage trolls.....I inferred many of you were ignorant...Childish tantrum throwers and entitled brats. While I have not been the most nice of people I am not
the raving lunatic you wish to paint me as.

Perhaps now I should cry and be like you and say WAAAAAH, you just called me a liar.  You have continually insulted people.  Apparently, you think it's ok if you call someone a troll, but then you've cried when someone calls you that.  You insult people's intelligence, their education (though you appear to have none yourself).  You repeatedly come back here merely to insult and to enflame and were you on any of the other forums I've moderated, you would be banned.  And not because I dislike your opinions-you have a right to those.  What you don't have a right to do is exactly what you have done and how you have been doing it. 

Truth is, your comments, all of them are so far from the truth all you are is laughable.

Again lets air the truth shall we???? I have insulted very few on
here..Actually you and three others. I have pointed out inaccuracies and falsehoods ....Thats not insults that's letting the truth be heard.

[3DandBeyond]

Redbelle wrote...

I've been looking for a youtube vid that shows if you wait to long at the catalyst RGB choice you get the critical mission failure ending.... no luck yet. I thought youtube had everything

Yes, you do get that.  I've gotten it.  There's nothing else that will happen.

And I agree that each of the story lines end within the game, but they are not the end of the story, they are the endings of those stories.  Everyone knows that the end is the end and it's referred to many times over.  They talk about plotlines being resolved, but they also refer to the end of Shepard's story and so on.

[Redbelle]

Oooh, I did find this..... If the Reapers did win in a playthrough I'd like to see something along these lines..... and Liara's timecapsule at the end is a brilliant use of a past plot device.

[Redbelle]

OMG Shepard!!! What have you unleashed upon the galaxy?!?!

[Voodoo-j]

Pop... pop .... pop....

Tiny bubbles, kinda nice day, think I'll take my daughter out to pop some bubbles!!
(it's more fun when I can see AND hear them pop)

Nothing Thanatisy about that

[Redbelle]

Ok, last one for the evening I promise.

[3DandBeyond]

Redbelle wrote...

Ok, last one for the evening I promise.

They are cool though....

[3DandBeyond]

Acavyos' Mass Defect vids are some of the best out there. I think he or she or they also have a good indoctrination one.

I did also find one once by someone else that showed the ending you get for ME2 if everyone dies-only Joker is left alive.  I had no idea it was possible. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 31 mai 2012 - 10:18 .

[Satanic Racist]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Called for overuse of question marks.  Please refrain from doing so, as one is sufficient for us to recognize a question even ones as silly and self-serving as these.

Ending-the end of something.

Beginning-the part where something begins or starts.  By your logic all of those things you mentioned are really the beginning of the game, so the whole game is the freaking beginning.  I got what, over 20 beginnings??????????????  I think I owe Bioware money now, because they never promised 20 beginnings.

Grow up.

Please take your own advice-you dispense enough of it here.  You know, I've seen people here called a lot of things by you, but every single one of those things applies more appropriately to you.

Actually I haven't and would take kindly to you not lying about me. I
have maybe called people three or four things...Rage trolls.....I inferred many of you were ignorant...Childish tantrum throwers and entitled brats. While I have not been the most nice of people I am not
the raving lunatic you wish to paint me as.

Coming from the retard who can't tell the difference between suing and prosecuting.

[Satanic Racist]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Actually I haven't and would take kindly to you not lying about me. I
have maybe called people three or four things...Rage trolls.....I inferred many of you were ignorant...Childish tantrum throwers and entitled brats. While I have not been the most nice of people I am not
the raving lunatic you wish to paint me as.

Perhaps now I should cry and be like you and say WAAAAAH, you just called me a liar.  You have continually insulted people.  Apparently, you think it's ok if you call someone a troll, but then you've cried when someone calls you that.  You insult people's intelligence, their education (though you appear to have none yourself).  You repeatedly come back here merely to insult and to enflame and were you on any of the other forums I've moderated, you would be banned.  And not because I dislike your opinions-you have a right to those.  What you don't have a right to do is exactly what you have done and how you have been doing it. 

Truth is, your comments, all of them are so far from the truth all you are is laughable.

Again lets air the truth shall we???? I have insulted very few on
here..Actually you and three others. I have pointed out inaccuracies and falsehoods ....Thats not insults that's letting the truth be heard.

You have insulted the few who are making you look like an even bigger fool than you already are, that's the same as insulting everyone in this conversation (excluding me) . The only liar here is you, nimrod.

[g0tlife]

Hey Bioware do you know that i really want to play me3 again, i played me2 3 times. I did start to play it again in a harder level and all that but eftir 10 min of the gameplay i just knew how bad it will end so i could not continue.

Like it did with me2, i bought all the DLC and played it 2 times, but with Mass Effect 3 i just can't. I think it will be a one time play wich is a shame. I looked on that video where you say that you wont do another ending but just explain the previous and man that killed all hope for me. Thanks worst ending in history of good games.

PS.
Did you do the ending in like 1 day ? Did someone like play threw the ending before the game hit the sales ? How could no one in the office not disliked the ending ? If you guys can't see that you are making the worst ending ever how will your next games be like ?

[BlueStorm83]

--- I was just playing the multiplayer today, and someone in my group hadn't beaten the game yet. We didn't give him any spoilers; it's better for him to go into it blind and be let down on his own. But there was also a Canadian girl in the group too. And she sounded MAD cute. That's all, I suppose. Sadly, there's no happy ending to the game where Shempard meets a cute canadian girl over mutiplayer and lives happily ever after.

--- I did watch an earlier posted 1 hour and 31 minute video about the inadequacies of the ending. It raised a lot of valid points about ME2, too. But the problems with ME2 were, in my opinion, forgivable and even justifiable as fleshing out and adapting earlier established ideas. The Starboy is actually a direct contradiction or established ideas, themes, and game lore. As well as a contradiction of things that he himself says. (He says that to stop the cycles he created the cycles, basically.)

--- And guys, really, just stop taking Thanatos' bait. He's not here to learn, discuss, debate, or express any viewpoints. He's just here to troll. He's the kid in the back seat who keeps putting his hands an inch from your head going "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!"

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I was just playing the multiplayer today, and someone in my group hadn't beaten the game yet. We didn't give him any spoilers; it's better for him to go into it blind and be let down on his own. But there was also a Canadian girl in the group too. And she sounded MAD cute. That's all, I suppose. Sadly, there's no happy ending to the game where Shempard meets a cute canadian girl over mutiplayer and lives happily ever after.

--- I did watch an earlier posted 1 hour and 31 minute video about the inadequacies of the ending. It raised a lot of valid points about ME2, too. But the problems with ME2 were, in my opinion, forgivable and even justifiable as fleshing out and adapting earlier established ideas. The Starboy is actually a direct contradiction or established ideas, themes, and game lore. As well as a contradiction of things that he himself says. (He says that to stop the cycles he created the cycles, basically.)

--- And guys, really, just stop taking Thanatos' bait. He's not here to learn, discuss, debate, or express any viewpoints. He's just here to troll. He's the kid in the back seat who keeps putting his hands an inch from your head going "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!"

The star kid and that whole scene is basically what creates all the problems with the ending. I could get past everything I think if not for that whole area of the game.  It would have been so nice if the Crucible had been a weapon and if Shepard had been the Catalyst that it needed to act.  That the test of the Crucible was in actually surviving and getting there with "humanity" or whatever you would call the spirit of an advanced organic, intact.

It's kind of like what I thought was something that rang true throughout the game and does in real life-Javik said it, that the problem was Shepard still thought s/he could succeed with honor still intact-paraphrasing.  And in many instances Shepard may say to others something that also may be said on the first mission done for Garrus-going after that Salarian doctor.  Shepard says you can't control how others will act but can only control how you do (after Garrus spares the doctor and the doctor commits suicide).  I thought that maybe the fact that Shepard always seemed to see the quality of life as more important than just survival, and all those comments on how special Shepard was, that Shepard would be the Catalyst and the weapon would come online for him/her.

And I figured that didn't mean it had to completely destroy reapers, but maybe it would make them vulnerable.  And the war assets could attack, Shepard could get back into the battle, and then the real war would begin.

Instead, we got the kid, who may not be a kid, who may be lying, who has been and done evil over many cycles, and who is the least intelligent super intelligent being ever in a video game.  And Shepard wants to out-dumb him.

[Archonsg]

Random people on the internet can come up with these :

Edited Ending

Alternate Ending Tali's version


And yet, Bioware won't budge to make true on at least 3 endings? Screw "16 different" endings. How about just 3, Reaper wins, Galaxy wins with Shepard sacrificed, Galaxy wins with Shepard alive and retiring with Love Interest?

[BlueStorm83]

--- Right now in New York City, Mayor Bloomberg is trying to outlaw large sodas. Saying that you can only buy 16 oz containers, not 32 oz. or even 64 oz. He says it's about making people healthier.

The problem is, people have a right to be who they are. To infringe upon a being's nature is worse than to end its life. If I'm so weak willed that I weigh 230 pounds due to not being able to stop drinking soda, that's my nature, and it's my problem to fix. (But I actually weigh 230 pounds because I'm STRONG willed enough to have decided to diet and lost 70 pounds already.)

I'm just using the Bloomberg thing as an example, not trying to start a political pissin' match. I can understand the desire to protect people, but you can't protect a person from their own nature. The 217th Rule of Acquisition says "You can't free a fish from water." (Star Trek DS9, episode "Past Tense, part 1.") Rather, you have to protect a person's freedom, and then give them the information they need to make their own decisions. If they make bad decisions and bring about their own demise, you've protected their freedom and the sanctity of their being.

Starboy gives us incomplete information based on precepts we have already disproven, and give us three options. Option One, Synthesis, violates the freedom and nature of all beings everywhere (I say Beings rather than Life to include any AI that has no physical form.) Option Two, Control, violates the freedom and the nature of the Reapers. I know, I'm being the Devil's Advocate, but remember what we learned from Reapers in the past. They are each individual and a nation; they're the collective persons of the entire species that was harvested to make them. They're controlled at the moment, sure, but exerting your own control over them would be twice violating them. Option Three: Destroy. This is probably the best option. It would even respect the sanctity of the nature and freedom of the Geth, though it would make them casualties. But even this option violates nature and freedom; the nature and Freedom of Shepard. Paragon Shepard would not kill his allies. Renegade Shepard would tell the rather untrustworthy Starboy to go **** himself in hell. Non-reputation-aligned Shepard would still have dialogue choices to at least ask for explanations for the things that Starboy says.

And all three options violate the Nature and Freedom of the most important part of Mass Effect. That is the Player/Shepard fusion. When we play the games, we become part Shepard and Shepard becomes part US. Just as Shepard will reflect our own wills and beliefs and choices, so to do we take on his own hopes, dreams, attachments, and feelings. A friend of mine at work had played through the game before me, in a different way, without saved files from ME1 and 2 (Hard drive died.) He avoided spoilers, but he told me that in his Playthrough, Tali comitted suicide, on a cliff. In MY playthroughs, I romanced nobody in the first game (Ashley talked to me about what I believed, and roleplaying my own actual Christianity, I decided to turn her down for the time being. Then she got deaded. And the way that Asari are all Female gave me the jeebies; technically, before they discovered other species, that means that they would also father children with each other, so in my mind, Liara's a latent DUDE.) Then in the second game, I went for Tali, because she was the most human of the three Characters. Jack felt more like a little sister who needed reassurance, not some jackass to do her. And Miranda... well, she skeeved me the hell out. Probably CRAWLING with all kinds of future STDs. Tali seemed believable, putting up a strong front but actually scared beneath the surface. You know, the way people actually would BE in the situation put forth in the second game.

Well, that made me nervous as ALL HELL, when there I am on Rannoch, and Legion's uploading the reaper-created upgrades that will give his people individuality and self, and the Quarrian fleet might start an attack that will get them all killed, and I've got a knot in my stomach, fearing that if I try to save both, it might backfire, then the Quarrians attack, they all die, and Tali can't handle it and she kills herself. What is Tali? Bluntly- Data. Recordings of a voice actress, polygonal models animated via a series of algorythms and motion capture. 1s and 0s. And I don't want her to kill herself. What is she to ME? Nothing. What was she to SHEPARD? Everything. And the fusion between Shepard and me, myself, I, brought that all into the real world.

I decided to do what I would have done if my friend at work hadn't given me any information about the future: I tried to get them to work things out and trusted in ShepMe's conversation skills. It worked out, and I gasped, put my controller down, and sat back for a moment. I was so relieved, I actually missed everything Legion said before he sacrificed his individuality to directly convey it into the other Geth. I missed his "I know," statement. And when he died, I went "Aw," but was so relieved that Tali was alright that it didn't really affect me as much as it could have. THAT is storytelling, THAT is videogaming, and THAT is making a moment that will resonate with your audience.

--- At the end of Fable 2, you're given 3 bull**** choices too. After vanquishing the game's villian in the second most underwhelming finale ever, some magic woman who'd been guiding you comes in. She can use the Magic Tower that the bad guy had been building to try and become a god to give you one of THREE THINGS. You can take tons of gold: Why? I already own all the real estate in the world in the game. I can revive the THOUSANDS of people who died building the tower. Tempting, right? And I DID play the game the 100% good guy way. OR I could revive my wife, daughter, and son, who the rat bastard villian had killed. No brainer- I got my family back. But what about the other victims!? **** 'em. My loved ones matter more. Another hero with me says, "That's so unlike you." What does she know? The whole time, I was trying to stop familial tragedy. **** killed my sister when we were kids, then killed my wife and kids. Oh, and he SHOT MY DOG too. Then the Magic Woman says she's taking the tower for herself, and I have to leave. Full Stop: Why can't I kill her? She said she needed me to kill the Villain because she couldn't. If A can't kill B, and C can kill B, can't C also kill A? Yeah, A can. But whatever. That ending fail is second place for a reason. Starboy.

--- It's blatantly obvious what happened here. EA wanted more money out of an RPG. They eschewed the RPG crowd to draw in action gamers, being completely out of touch with BioWare's long time fans. When we said that ME2 wasn't RPG enough, that we didn't get enough choice in leveling and story building, like we had in ME1, they tried to fix that. They tried, they really did. But they failed. They thought that this ending would get everyone talking. It sure did. Talking about how they tried to **** us again and again and again, in new exciting ways.

From Ashes is complete main-story Viable. You can get Javik right after Mars, and you can bring him everywhere through the whole game. His dialogue is just as interactive as other main story characters. He is as viable as Garrus. Indeed, his Athame Conversation with Liara after the Thessia mission is part interactive cutscene. He even has a couple interrupts, there and in the Citadel conversation where the Hanar recognizes him as an Enkindler. He's not a little extra flavor, he's the kind of thing that the real From The Begining Fans NEED for this game. Cash-Grab.

The Multiplayer is needed for Single Player's "Best" ending. Why? If people play the Multiplayer, they might have fun. If they have fun, they might want more Packs from the game store. If they want Packs but don't want to earn the creds- Real Money Transactions. Cash-Grab.

The "ending" ends with a Post-it note that tells us to buy more DLC. Cash-Grab.

--- This isn't the beginning of Cash Grabs from EA. Look into their history. They're interested in profit, and they don't care for their customers. They clearly hoped that the ending would confuse players enough that they'd buy more DLC for clarity and more. Perhaps they DID originally intend to introduce more DLC that would change the ending or give more options. Now that we've suggested that was their plan all along, they vehemently denied it. Let me ask a question, though...

Why would anyone buy DLC that happens before a definite finale in a series that ends in a way that their choices seemed to have no impact at all on the greater part of the outcome?

Save the Rachni? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. Kill the Rachni? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers.

Save the council? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. Let the council die? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers.

Cure the Genophage? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. Doom the Krogan? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. Wrex is alive? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. You killed Wrex? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. You shot Mordin, you bastard?! Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers.

Did you betray Samara and side with Morinth, thinking her more powerful? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. Did you help Samara kill her evil daughter? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. No, Samara killed herself to satisfy her vow and let her daughter live! Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. You convinced Samara to not die, and her daughter stayed in exile willingly, she's a good girl! Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers.

I shot Anderson, WHY?!? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. The Illusive Man killed Anderson, OH NO! Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers. I convinced The Illusive Man that he was indoctrinated, and he took the noble way out. Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers.

I did all the little side content. I solved everyone's problems. I rolled over every world in the Mako. I found all the Minerals. I found the Prothean Data Discs. I found the Prothean Sphere. I saved all the allies that it was Shepardly Possible to save. I turned the Normandy into a bulwark, armed to the teeth. I recruited all the best for the Suicide Mission. I helped them through their past turmoil to ensure we had a REAL BOND, and got them all through it alive. I came back alive. I stopped the Reaper Invasion and destroyed the Alpha Relay. I ended the abominable Operation Overlord. I navigated some **** hole in the Hammerhead. I scanned EVERY WORLD I could reach in the Galaxy. I eavesdropped on every conversation on the Citadel and got everyone the things they needed. I found every enemy base and curious anomaly on every world and sorted things out there. I answered every distress call. I recruited every race in known space to our mutual defense. I reassured all my friends we'd make it out. Then we charged BOLDLY into the fray. What happened? Normandy stranded, relays gone, galaxy safe from reapers.

And if I skipped everything optional, I did the bare minimum, I skimped, I cut corners, I didn't care to upgrade my ship, I let people fight for me only for the money. Many of them died. If it wasn't part of my main mission, I let everyone fend for themselves. I rushed right into the final conflict without making any preparation I didn't absolutely have to. And what happened then? NORMANDY STRANDED, RELAYS GONE, GALAXY SAFE FROM REAPERS.

None of it mattered worth a damn. Total breakdown of Shepard/Player fusion. We're RIPPED out of the game and watch a puppet dance on someone else's strings, and then all of our best friends are abandoned on some far off rock, and we don't even get to hear what their impressions of these events are. The End.

---  To bring it back to the point about infringing on freedom and nature, well, that's what was done.  Not to us, but to Mass Effect.  In the last 10 minutes, the very nature of the game was changed.  What was for 150 hours about making your choice, standing by what you personally believed, and finding YOUR way through events turned into being forced into someone ELSE's way through.  Sure, we always made choices based on what the game gave us, but the way it was presented was that it was all Shepard's options based on circumstances that he understood.  Then suddenly someone ELSE gives us options based on what HE understands.  And though Shepard understands, with TANGIBLE EVIDENCE, that the Catalyst's understanding is wrong, he capitulates.  At no point can he say, "But right now, RIGHT THERE, are Synthetics fighting to SAVE ORGANICS," and point at the Geth Ships helping us in the fight.  Mass Effect has become something different, and that is what was done.  We got the first 95% of Mass Effect 3, followed by 5% cheap knockoff painted to look like the real thing.

I could use a beer right about now. And I don't drink.

Modifié par BlueStorm83, 01 juin 2012 - 01:47 .

[g0tlife]

Archonsg wrote...

Random people on the internet can come up with these :

Edited Ending

Alternate Ending Tali's version


And yet, Bioware won't budge to make true on at least 3 endings? Screw "16 different" endings. How about just 3, Reaper wins, Galaxy wins with Shepard sacrificed, Galaxy wins with Shepard alive and retiring with Love Interest?

I just don't get it how they could have f**** it so up and not see it and then DEFENDING IT TO THEIR DEATH. I mean get of your high horse and say ''Sorry guys we ****ed up''  And how could no one in the company not see this coming  ? They do play the game before they lunch it .. or i thought they did

[BlueStorm83]

--- In BioWare's defence (Yes, I of all people am doing this!) I have to say something...

What you create is your baby. It is often VERY hard to see faults in it. I'm a bit of a (Failure of a ) writer, and I have to say, when I write something, I often omit details that are in my head, and assume that what I understood before its creation will be conveyed to anyone who reads it. It is possible, POSSIBLE, that the ending DOES make sense. It is POSSIBLE that it's actually brilliant.

But if it does make sense, if it IS brilliant, then clearly they left information out of the ending scenes that they had in their Internal Cannon. I can tell you a story, and at the last scene, one hero kills the other hero. And you're like, "Why'd he do that?!" and I go, "Remember the scene where he got that phone call, and he answered in Russian?" And you're like, "No, you didn't say that!" And I then go, "Ah ****, I forgot to imply that he was a Russian Spy all along. My bad." And BAM, what could have been foreshadowed and make sense, a story of a hero's trust in his allies blinding him to their true intentions, turns into crap that ends from out of nowhere."

Do I think that's what happened? NOPE. They're usually too good at storytelling. What I THINK happened is that they were going to DLC us with more ending material. Another chapter after the endings, that has the REAL ending. But then we ****ed that plan up by seeing what they did give us as gibberish.

But I do admit that it's possible that's what happened.

[3DandBeyond]

BladeHero12 wrote...

I wasn't trying to compare the Doom 3 changes to the desire to alter ME3's ending; I was trying to say that I don't want this incident to lead to content creators being told what they can or can't do with their IPs. I already think that publishers are too focused on making money, and that they are too focused on short-term gains. I think a lot of what is said in the article is garbage; If players find having to hold a flashlight instead of a gun in segment is a nuisance, and if the developer feels it doesn't ruin the experience of playing the game, then make the change. The idea that making changes to a game based on fan response means the creators don't care about their art sounds ridiculous. If the content creator fails to communicate their message to fans , maybe they should take a second look at their work; there is a big difference between finding something undesirable and finding something non functional.

I don't think anyone was blaming you for bringing it up and it's quite true micromanaging isn't the way to go.  Mostly we took issue with what that guy was saying.  He was using comparisons that had no basis.  One was Doom3 which others said could be modded anyway and it's a re-release of an 8 year old game.  The other was Star Wars and changes the creator, George Lucas made-he did this himself and it was and is a botched job.  Mainly my belief is he did it because he wanted to use some of the technology learned for Phantom Menace, but also because he was afraid the original would look dated next to PM.  He didn't do it in deference to fan wishes.

But, as I pointed out game companies do something similar already, but with smaller groups by having beta testers.  And beta testers do not just bug hunt, they critique everything.

You hit the problem with that article on the head-the flashlight thing is a joke.  To indicate that that is anything like the ME3 ending is stupid.  The guy used ME3 and really looked for some thing to connect the dots with just so he could write something and get people to read it.  Anyone that thinks there's the real danger that fans have too much influence has no idea what is going on and does not play videogames.  The opposite has been systematically happening.

Games look better but consider some real blockbuster titles that have been so badly bugged on some consoles (PS3s) as to be almost unplayable and worse-causing total freeze ups that corrupt drives, and for one certain company this is nothing new.  Look at the use of codes to access MP-diluting the value of used console games.  Look at microtransactions and the use of DLC to actually add content to a story that should have been there in the first place (Bioware has plenty of company here).  Look at the dwindling size of the single player campaign in deference to MP for many top titles.  Lucky to get 15 hours play ouf of SP for some of them.  More and more games are being farmed out to what amounts to graphic's rendering farms and the quality suffers.  It's cheaper for devs, but have you as a consumer seen a drop in prices.  Videogames are about the only form of home entertainment that has not seen a drop in the price of new releases.  Instead, the trend is now to go with release day DLC (which Bioware is guilty of), to make the buyer pay more for content that should have been in the main game.

All of this is anti-consumer and anti-fan.  So, anyone insisting fans have and are wielding too much power is crazy.  Fans have never spoken up like this before and very rarely have they expressed such vehement opinion on content.  In the past, the main issue has been bug fixes and often that gets ignored.

Ultimately, if a dev feels that strongly about what they've made, they can just say no.  But that doesn't mean people have to buy what they want to sell.  I saw a show where a lady made sculptures from toenail clippings.  She called it art and she did a good job, but just because she wants to sell them doesn't mean anyone will buy them, no matter how artistic she believes they are.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- In BioWare's defence (Yes, I of all people am doing this!) I have to say something...

What you create is your baby. It is often VERY hard to see faults in it. I'm a bit of a (Failure of a ) writer, and I have to say, when I write something, I often omit details that are in my head, and assume that what I understood before its creation will be conveyed to anyone who reads it. It is possible, POSSIBLE, that the ending DOES make sense. It is POSSIBLE that it's actually brilliant.

But if it does make sense, if it IS brilliant, then clearly they left information out of the ending scenes that they had in their Internal Cannon. I can tell you a story, and at the last scene, one hero kills the other hero. And you're like, "Why'd he do that?!" and I go, "Remember the scene where he got that phone call, and he answered in Russian?" And you're like, "No, you didn't say that!" And I then go, "Ah ****, I forgot to imply that he was a Russian Spy all along. My bad." And BAM, what could have been foreshadowed and make sense, a story of a hero's trust in his allies blinding him to their true intentions, turns into crap that ends from out of nowhere."

Do I think that's what happened? NOPE. They're usually too good at storytelling. What I THINK happened is that they were going to DLC us with more ending material. Another chapter after the endings, that has the REAL ending. But then we ****ed that plan up by seeing what they did give us as gibberish.

But I do admit that it's possible that's what happened.

The main reason I adhere to the belief they planned on DLC to flesh out more of Shepard's story is the blue screen at the end.

I cannot believe that people that wrote all those codex entries and planetary descriptions and so on, just failed to release info on the back story.  Actually, very minimally there was a hint that someone else controlled the reapers-please don't ask me now where that was, but it was very close to the end in ME3.  However, nothing could salvage the way this ending was handled.  It could have included a lot of foreshadowing, but still it is a huge failure.  Because the ending itself if like 5 minutes of some slapped together stuff that ends really quickly and it does not all fit together with the rest of the stuff in that last 5 minutes.

I have recently come across some things that say in the original leaked script there was a reference to Shepard becoming the Catalyst and destroying the kid to take control-that that was the true meaning of that choice.  I don't know if it's fact or not, but that still doesn't fix what's wrong with it.  It tastes and smells bad.  If that was a part of the ending it still would be lousy.

One thing Casey Hudson said (though who can believe it when they say this stuff) is there was nothing that was canon to them because it was supposed to be all about the outcome the player wanted.  And that was said about ME3.  So, clearly there's something in the water.

[Landon7001]

all the comments on here are so eloquent, intellegent, thought out, in depth......I HOPE bioware really is still listening

[Orion1836]

Dear Bioware,

Originally, I was going to write a Mass Effect 3 review, but I see there are more than enough of those floating around here already. Still, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this universe you have created, and I feel this is probably the best way to share those thoughts with you. So here's my take on the ending(s) of ME3:

First and foremost, I'll say that I respect you for having the courage to do something different and unexpected. I know there's not much room in the game industry for risk - publishers want something that will sell and keep bringing customers back each year. I'm sure it took a lot of guts and topcover from the dev team to allow the writers this freedom.

The ending was bold, epic in scale, and surprising... and yet it leaves behind a feeling of emptiness.

To properly explain, I need to go back a bit in my own timeline. Since the player's choices play such a major role in Shepard's story, I need to touch on my own to before discussing ME3's ending. I am a career military officer, and Mass Effect has always managed to factor into my deployments. Right before my second deployment in 2008, I first heard that Mass Effect had been released on PC (before, I thought it was going to stay an XBox exclusive). A huge KOTOR and NWN fan, I was really excited. A long Bioware RPG would be the perfect way to spend my downtime and make the deployment go by faster.

I wasn't disappointed. I played the original game three times before I came home. A funny thing happened when I created my third Shepard, the one I eventually used as my "canon" playthrough. Normally, if given the option to create a custom character, I either use the default or make something generic. However, I didn't like the default Shepard (Sheploo), and I had already made a generic character for my first runthrough.  Then, I remembered how KOTOR had a character picture that happened to look exactly like me in real life, which made the Revan reveal that much more shocking. So, I spent hours tweaking the facial features on my new Shepard to get it just right. It's a testament to your character import process that my Shepard's third iteration still looks the same, even with the higher resolution. The added detail and facial weathering matched up with my own as I got older - kind of eerie now that I think about it.

Suffice to say that Mass Effect was a far more personal experience when it was my face I kept seeing on screen.

Fast forward a couple years, and my first playthrough of ME2 is interrupted by my third deployment (no taking it with me this time, the laptop was too old). Fast forward again to 2012, and I'm deployed again... this time with two months between release day and my return. As you can imagine, I spent a lot of time looking forward to finding out how it all would end.

Though I managed to avoid spoilers during those two months, there was no way I could miss the internet backlash over the ME3 ending. Sites completely unrelated to Bioware or Mass Effect were mentioning it, and pretty much every webcomic I frequent poked fun at it in some way. Nothing spoiled the ending for me, but I was concerned.

After all, you as a development house are known for your writing prowess. You're held as the gold standard for storyline and dialogue. I just couldn't see how you could possibly screw this up. The only thing I could think of was that Shepard died in the end, and that's what was causing all the rage. That thought didn't really upset me - a tragic ending isn't necessarily a bad ending. After all, some of the greatest stories ever told have tragic endings. Maybe the general gaming community just couldn't handing an ending that wasn't happy.

After returning to the US and finally getting to play ME3, my fears were alleviated, at least for a while. The story was as grand as I anticipated, and the writing could not have been better. The other danger with excellent writers is that the end product can be overwritten. Even worse, the little acknowledgements of fan in-jokes (like Garrus' calibrations) could have been heavy-handed ("See! See! We know the calibrations joke too, har har!"). Instead, the writing was deft and subtle to the point of being sublime. Quite a few scenes brought a (manly) tear to my eye, especially Mordin and Thane's final moments. The conclusion of all the little story threads, even refund guy's, was a nice touch. While the game couldn't spare the time to focus heavily on ALL the old squadmates, it felt as if each one got their proper moment and a chance to say goodbye to both Shepard and the player (though I do feel sorry for those who romanced non-ME3 crewmembers).

With the level of denouement leading up to the final fight, I entered the Citadel pretty sure that Shepard was going to die. I just didn't know why or how. I was hoping for an epically tragic, yet purposeful death.

I couldn't have been more disappointed.

The theme I'm going to touch on now is suspension of disbelief, and how the ending just destroys it. Any story can get away with having the audience "just go with it" for one or two things. Mass Effect does this a few more times, especially with the Lazarus Project, but the continuing narrative was good enough that such leaps could be reasonably ignored. But asking the audience to make another leap, right at the end, where there is no potential for a future payoff is too much. It just leaves the audience asking "what the hell?"

Throughout the entire series, the Reapers were the over-arching antagonists. Revealing that Harbinger was actually a Reaper instead of just the Collector General was a plot-developing twist at the end of ME2. Revealing that the Catalyst was the intelligence behind the Reapers, part of a grand design to preserve organic life from synthetic, with NO prior hints to the player makes it feel like a plot point pulled from thin air.

The question as to WHY the Reapers do what they do (which seemed to be lampshaded in the original game), didn't need to be answered, and it certainly didn't need this sort of an answer. Shepard HAD all the motivation a protagonist needs, and I as the player was comfortable with the fact that Reapers used liquified organic life to build more of themselves as was shown in ME2. It was their twisted method of reaper-duction (har har), and it made sense. The Architect plot twist didn't work in the Matrix trilogy and it sure as hell didn't work here.

But all that aside, even ignoring that element of the ending, the part which disquieted me the most was Shepard's helplessness. For three games, I played a character who could achieve the impossible through sheer resourcefulness and force of will. There was a reason there was no resistance to the power of UPPERLEFTBLUE... Shepard was a force to be reckoned with. Hell, he talked (in my playthrough) two of the big bads into killing themselves, and you're telling me he couldn't convince the Catalyst to create a choice he could live with?

Because that is the biggest problem of the ending... all of the choices are unacceptable. Playing as I played, Shepard wanted a galaxy united in peace, free of the Reaper threat, and with every race free to pick its own destiny. This isn't even my take on the character - these are the words your writers repeatedly put in Shep's mouth with every paragon interrupt and persuade option. If there wasn't a peaceful solution, Shepard made one against all odds. From that perspective, examine the choices given:

Destroy all synthetic life - after fighting for Geth acceptance, ending the Geth-Quarian conflict, and befriending Legion/EDI, how could Shepard ever do this in good conscience, even as a cost to defeating the Reapers?

Control the Reapers - after seeing the utter failures of both Saren and The Illusive Man, not to mention the prospect of completing the very Cerberus plans he was trying to stop, why would Shepard ever choose this? As a parallel, examine the Collector Base. Paragon Shepard destroyed an extremely valuable asset simply because of the evil that had been done there. After all the horrors the Reapers visited on countless species, and all the horrors that had been committed by his own species in the name of controlling the Reapers, how could Shepard ever agree to merge with them?

Synthesis - First off, this was my ending, and even then, I'm not exactly sure what the hell happened. Rewriting life itself to merge sythetic and organic? Let's say this was possible... what motivation other than the lesser of three evils would Shepard have to choose this? *He* doesn't know that Joker and EDI will wind up on some strange planet and be able to crank out a bunch of synthetic-organic hybrids, or even that anyone will survive. For all that he is told, he will basically be un-making and re-making all of existence as soon as he steps into that beam of energy, to include the destruction of everyone he knows and loves and everything that he has fought for.

Worst of all, Shepard seems so helpless as he is presented these options. The Catalyst just leads him by the nose, and Shepard only asks clarifying questions... never challenging the options themselves. Where is the fighter who stopped the Quarian fleet with only his words? Where is the man who unflinchingly told the three most powerful people in the galaxy where they could shove their heads when they finished sticking them in the sand?

Granted, we know Shepard is not only exhausted but utterly depleted at this point. We're shown this in painfully slow agony all the way from the conduit to the final conversation with the Catalyst. But even so, this is Shepard, the hero, the character with whom the player has done progressively more impossible things... and he's helpless in the end to demand a choice he'd want.

Now imagine seeing all this play out with Shepard wearing your face, and you can understand how I felt about the ending.

As I said before, I'm sure it took courage to try something new with this ending, and I'm sure it's taken more to defend it, given all the backlash. At the same time, understand that just because something is memorable and unique does not make it good. Sure - I don't think a lot of people will forget this ending... but the memories associated will not be good ones. I know mine is not.

Yes, a "happy ending," can be boring and trite. After all, it's the standard expected by most audiences, and it makes tragic endings that much more poignant. But Shepard's possible deaths are not tragic - they're just... sad. He doesn't go out in a blaze of glory... he goes out with a whimper, kowtowing to the choices fate has dealt him. The "bad" ending to ME2 was more powerful than any of these possibilities. Furthermore, your endings lack the very thing that made Mass Effect great... player choice. The player should have some ownership in Shepard's ultimate fate - something he or she doesn't have with the current endings. Even the "best" ending is still a crappy one, making all of Shepard's (and the player's) hard work ultimately meaningless.

It would take courage to alter the endings, to admit that maybe they could have been better. But it's something your playerbase would respect you for... and I'm sure it doesn't hurt that we'd gladly pay good money for an alternate ending DLC.


Thanks for listening,

Orion

[Redbelle]

Archonsg wrote...

Random people on the internet can come up with these :

Edited Ending

Alternate Ending Tali's version


And yet, Bioware won't budge to make true on at least 3 endings? Screw "16 different" endings. How about just 3, Reaper wins, Galaxy wins with Shepard sacrificed, Galaxy wins with Shepard alive and retiring with Love Interest?

Tali's alternate ending, for some reason, got me thinking of Halo Reach. I won't spoil that ending for those who haven't played it. Suffice to say that you take on the role of a Spartan during the crisis and no one is getting off the planet without a few scars and tradegies along the way. That ending wasw as bittersweet as it came and when you last see your character s/he is not going down without a fight. Alot of fight as it turns out.

I'd suggest youtubing it. It probably won't have the same impact as a playthough but that ending takes the concepts of honour, duty and sacrifice, blends them into a 2nd from last cutscene and makes you see why fighting a Spartan is never a good move.

The point of this post? Halo's ending hit the notes I think BW were after for there's.

Modifié par Redbelle, 01 juin 2012 - 08:11 .

[fvegeth]

When I first played Mass Effect, I liked it. Then Mass Effect 2 was released and I loved it so much I though the sequel couldn’t have been better than that. But I was wrong. While playing ME3 I kept thinking it was the best game I had ever played. Still, there are a few details in the endings that left me somehow perplexed.

• Synthesis: This is the ending I prefer, but I just don’t understand why the only way to keep peace between the organics and the synthetics is to merge the DNAs. I played the 3 chapters of the saga, always striving to make the species cooperate, but in the end the only way to solve the problem was, basically, to become new specie. Why? I thought we were better than the Protheans…
• How about the Krogans?: One of the main themes of the whole saga was the not always peaceful cooperation among the species, whereas in the end the whole problem seems to be the dichotomy Organics vs. Synthetics. How about the Krogans? And the Rachni?
• Strange things happen: I wonder why in the end the very same explosion can or cannot destroy London or the entire Earth depending on your effective military strength… Wouldn’t it have been better if the Reapers simply destroyed the city before the explosion, if your effective military strength was low? And where the heck was the Normandy going instead than participating in the battle? And what are all the species supposed to do now that the Mass Relays have been destroyed and thus - I guess - they are trapped in the Solar System?
• Take the Earth back: I wish there were more missions on the Earth, so that I could have the feeling I was really doing something to take it back. May I hope in some future DLC?
   What about the crew?: In the end, I would have liked to know what happened to my crew and my companions. Did they survive? How did they cope with their captain’s disappearance? And so on and so forth…
• Consequences: The “Galaxy at war” system doubtless has its pros, ‘because it allows you to combine the multiplayer, the other apps and the single player campaign, but I did not like to have all of my choices showed just like mere numbers on the screen. I wish each of the allies I had in the 3 chapter played a bigger role on screen during the final battle and I wish I could know what happened to them after it.

[Redbelle]

fvegeth wrote...

When I first played Mass Effect, I liked it. Then Mass Effect 2 was released and I loved it so much I though the sequel couldn’t have been better than that. But I was wrong. While playing ME3 I kept thinking it was the best game I had ever played. Still, there are a few details in the endings that left me somehow perplexed.

• Synthesis: This is the ending I prefer, but I just don’t understand why the only way to keep peace between the organics and the synthetics is to merge the DNAs. I played the 3 chapters of the saga, always striving to make the species cooperate, but in the end the only way to solve the problem was, basically, to become new specie. Why? I thought we were better than the Protheans…
• How about the Krogans?: One of the main themes of the whole saga was the not always peaceful cooperation among the species, whereas in the end the whole problem seems to be the dichotomy Organics vs. Synthetics. How about the Krogans? And the Rachni?
• Strange things happen: I wonder why in the end the very same explosion can or cannot destroy London or the entire Earth depending on your effective military strength… Wouldn’t it have been better if the Reapers simply destroyed the city before the explosion, if your effective military strength was low? And where the heck was the Normandy going instead than participating in the battle? And what are all the species supposed to do now that the Mass Relays have been destroyed and thus - I guess - they are trapped in the Solar System?
• Take the Earth back: I wish there were more missions on the Earth, so that I could have the feeling I was really doing something to take it back. May I hope in some future DLC?
   What about the crew?: In the end, I would have liked to know what happened to my crew and my companions. Did they survive? How did they cope with their captain’s disappearance? And so on and so forth…
• Consequences: The “Galaxy at war” system doubtless has its pros, ‘because it allows you to combine the multiplayer, the other apps and the single player campaign, but I did not like to have all of my choices showed just like mere numbers on the screen. I wish each of the allies I had in the 3 chapter played a bigger role on screen during the final battle and I wish I could know what happened to them after it.

[*]I could point you towards alot of the conversations we've been having about many of these very issues. However while there have been alot of insightful and reasoned answers to these questions I maintain that anything we come up with beyond the ending are speculative as BW didn't provide the context needed for our final choice to dictate the outcome. Ok we know we control, synthesis and destroy the Reapers, but like you say, the longer term consequences of our actions has potentially stranded alot of the galactic military in the Sol system.
[*]Some of the talk about being stranded in Sol points to the Turians and Quarians being in dire straights as they are Dextro based lifeforms who require dextro based food stuff. Other conversations speculate that ME3's ending sets up the situation for ME4 where at a point in the future of the ME universe we find that alien species have gone native and thus become potential conduits for narrative as the relay netwrok is established and they go back to their homeworlds to find their ppl alien to them.
[*]DLC, if ME3 follows the model of ME2 should see DLC released over the course of a year. I think we're 3 months in so we have another 9 months of DLC content to look forward to.