I wasn't saying I thought it was Eden Prime. I was speaking figuratively of them landing on a new Eden, especially if you tried synthesis where EDI and Joker walk off the ship together. "It's just you and me, babe. Let's get started on making some synthesis babies!"
I am saying the ending is a Shaggy God story, a retelling of the Eden story, or myth. As ArchonSG put it, not only an ugly baby, but one that cannot possibly be yours, but Bioware, the mother ignores your protestations. "I don't know what you're talking about. Of course it looks like you. He's not ugly, he's artistic, like a Picasso." And she hands off her howling spawn to us, leaking diapers and all, and goes off to make another.
Euuugh, hand me that corkscrew, I need to get a mental picture out of head.
Basically, this is so true-and it is so appropriate. The leaking diaper feeling is just about what I have for the star kid. I'd characterize it as something a bit messier, but it's very close.
This fits in with the definition of logic newly invented by the Catalyst; any idea which uses the most amount of words and makes the least sense. Use of ideas in a sentence to form conclusions based on possible, but uncertain events and assert that they are true even though they aren't.
In fact, it seems certain that had the Catalyst really existed, these things would make sense:
People would take sledgehammers to their cars to destroy them, so they would not get into crashes and destroy them. People would starve themselves to avoid not having food and starving. People would shoot themselves in order to avoid someone shooting them. In fact, people would kill themselves in any number of ways so they could avoid dying. The only problem would be they couldn't die in many different ways to avoid dying by those different methods.
--- To be fair, one woman DID douse herself in gasoline and light herself on fire in order to avoid being hit by a burning falling sattelite that she BELIEVED would hit her (despite all the science behind MAKING sattelites for the specific purpose of burning up in re-entry so they DON'T hit people.)
So the Catalyst was a midwestern woman who didn't understand engineering, odds, and, you know, self fulfilling prophecies.
This fits in with the definition of logic newly invented by the Catalyst; any idea which uses the most amount of words and makes the least sense. Use of ideas in a sentence to form conclusions based on possible, but uncertain events and assert that they are true even though they aren't.
In fact, it seems certain that had the Catalyst really existed, these things would make sense:
People would take sledgehammers to their cars to destroy them, so they would not get into crashes and destroy them. People would starve themselves to avoid not having food and starving. People would shoot themselves in order to avoid someone shooting them. In fact, people would kill themselves in any number of ways so they could avoid dying. The only problem would be they couldn't die in many different ways to avoid dying by those different methods.
--- To be fair, one woman DID douse herself in gasoline and light herself on fire in order to avoid being hit by a burning falling sattelite that she BELIEVED would hit her (despite all the science behind MAKING sattelites for the specific purpose of burning up in re-entry so they DON'T hit people.)
So the Catalyst was a midwestern woman who didn't understand engineering, odds, and, you know, self fulfilling prophecies.
Oooh, genius sheer genius. I thought I detected a feminine tone in his voice. The avoidance of true knowledge points to him being a specific type of genius-the unintelligent type.
I'm not a great big Harry Potter fan, but I do think there are some similarities in basic plotline and Harry Potter ended in a much better way. Harry had gathered a core group of friends together, had fought a bigger than life foe that many chose to ignore-they also ignored his return. There was a huge end battle, it was dark, some died, even Harry was thought to be dead and the villain figured he'd won. The ending hit a lot more right notes and featured a hero that had sacrificed a lot, had constantly fought against unbeatable odds and when there is a true victory, it didn't seem too cheesy to me. And even though almost everything in Harry Potter is made up fantasy, the ending and all seemed more sensible and real than ME3's.
I think it would be cool if Mordin wasn't really dead and then miraculously showed up on the Citadel (maybe he followed TIM there using TIM's magic portal) and if Mordin with the STG had already had some preconceived notion of the Catalyst's existence and true plans and had created a magic weapon that would shut down the Catalyst when Mordin kisses him, er, I mean shoots him. This would cause a cascading shutdown of life support processes (kind of the intermingling of the organic and synthetic portions of the reapers) and they'd be rendered vulnerable.
Then Mordin would magically transport himself, a resurrected Anderson, and Shepard from the Citadel, which also has been magically regenerated by Mordin. Mordin would do all this while singing some newly learned songs sung to the tune of Phantom of the Opera (he has evolved past patter songs).
Mordin would then lead the charge to Harbinger, already dying at the place where the conduit touched Earth-Mordin would flick his finger at Harbinger, causing him to topple over dead. Shepard's LI (Garrus) would take another look at Mordin as would Eve, causing Wrex and Shepard to become jealous. A fight would ensue and they'd all die horribly. The end.
Aaaw, I liked that Mordin died........Ok, I didn't mean I 'liked Mordin died'. I mean I liked what he died for. Playing my paragon character the Tchunka mission saw Mordin hell bent on curing the genophage due to what I thought was his close relationship to Eve. But in my Renegade paythrough where Wrex is dead and the other Krogan is in charge, and Eve dies because I didn't save the genophage cure data in ME2 Mordin cracks and yells, 'I made a mistake'. I was then able to save him by essentually pointing out that with Wrex, the progressive leader dead. And with Eve, the calming influence on the new leadership dead, curing the genophage was likely to result inanother Krogan rebellion and Mordin said thanks for the perspective and didn't cure the genophage......... and lived....
Can I just say.......... Wow. Whoever wrote the pathways of how that scene plays out through the past choices of ME 1 and 2 deserves a medal.
Aaaw, I liked that Mordin died........Ok, I didn't mean I 'liked Mordin died'. I mean I liked what he died for. Playing my paragon character the Tchunka mission saw Mordin hell bent on curing the genophage due to what I thought was his close relationship to Eve. But in my Renegade paythrough where Wrex is dead and the other Krogan is in charge, and Eve dies because I didn't save the genophage cure data in ME2 Mordin cracks and yells, 'I made a mistake'. I was then able to save him by essentually pointing out that with Wrex, the progressive leader dead. And with Eve, the calming influence on the new leadership dead, curing the genophage was likely to result inanother Krogan rebellion and Mordin said thanks for the perspective and didn't cure the genophage......... and lived....
Can I just say.......... Wow. Whoever wrote the pathways of how that scene plays out through the past choices of ME 1 and 2 deserves a medal.
Yes, Mordin's story is my favorite of the game. He's so flawed, but so wants to fix it. Sorry, this really obviously was just tongue in cheek.
[quote]Thanatos144 wrote... .Now I do like to post the truth but I guess to you having moved on means I should just allow lies to constantly be spread...Sorry I have honor. [/quote]
Hipocrisy on a whole new level
New word just for you! Thanatisy - it's being a hipocrite while fantasizing you are not!
[/quote] You really need to look up the definition of that word.....Unlike you I have been consistant. [/quote]
again the catalyst isnt the good guy the enemy that has been destroying advanced organics for generations and then saying their going to save us from advanced synthetics but then use the geth to kill us or fight us with their reaper code after nearly destroying the galaxy and do this a thousand times over do you really think the reapers are just gonna sit down and drink milk and cookies with us I hardly doubt so
In A situation where the enemy that your fighting or brought all your forces to beat it makes no sense to automaticlly give into said enemy with circular logic that can be torn apart and then forced into 3 choices that either sound suicidal and ends up traping all your forces or commiting mass genocide to races like the geth and the quarians
Or turing everybody into half machines or half organic hybrids against their will destroying individuality evolution to affect real change to destroy the whole essence of bringing different people together to accomplish a goal
And No one has ever been able to control the reapers so it makes no sense why it would be able to work now when the illusive man and saren both failed to do so and how is shepard controlling the reapers if his or her body is destroyed how in hells name are the reapers being controlled and in any of the endings where the main villian lives what makes you think they won't try to harvest or commit mass genocide again it just
*Deep breath* dear god I just oooooih *Facepalms
Maybe from now on on every post I make I shall have this picture accompanie it
Thought this was kinda cool
Yeah a sacrifical ending is fine if you end up saving the people you sacrifice for but giving into the enemy and then having the enemy pick what you should or force you into 3 terrible choices that personally as player and as shepard would probably never do I'm sorry
I'd rather fight the reapers to the end and depending on how high ems is how bad we lose or how good we win with keeping the relays intact so all the forces can go home and have loyal squad stay with us and the fleets
And why Can't mass effect 3 have a good ending or at least a victory ending mass effect 1 had one mass effect 2 had one 99% of mass effect 3 despite the noble and sad sacrifices had heroic and well done moments so why in the ending where everything is suppose to make sense where we are suppose to be reaching a decent conclusion does everything lose cohesion losing gallons of blood or not I wouldn't give in or accept the cataylst without questioning my own sanity because he created the reapers he is using the reapers to destroy organics for aeons on end and is still using the reapers to destroy my forces as we are having this very conversation with the catalyst
And ultimately why would I Trapt my own forces or let the enemy that has been destroying life for thousand of years or is destroying us during most of the final game why in hells name would I let them live so that they can potentially kill us all over again I just sweet christmas U_u
At the end of the day a defeat is a defeat I wish our choices would've mattered I wish we could've really beaten the reapers espically under our own steam and not their creators wishes
Yea thanatos loves playing games to lose I bet he plays call of duty all the time online so he can get his ass destroyed or so that no matter what he does he will always lose yup he loves it more then anything
The False expectations and the lies that they said how things would occur was what was terribly wrong
Secondly you seem to love the thing about heroes giving into the enemies that they said they would destroy to save the galaxy but instead we get either reapers live with their creator telling us which way to die with either the reapers living so they can commit genocide on us again or all our forces trapt in our damaged solar system
And Vigil from Ilos already said that the reapers turn off the relays to make it easyer to harvest organics so if the relays are destroyed it would make it that much easyer for the reapers to annhilate us
Giving into the enemy and having them force into the choices they believe and then ultimately not beating the enemy or not saving any of your forces from the sacrifice that you make ends up ultimatel a failure ending where you lose no matter what decisions and actions you did during all three games[/quote]
hope 3dand bear and everybody other then bubbles is doing ok
I kow this thread is already miles long, but I'll add my comment in.
The Mass Effect series is probably my favorite series since the old Wing Commander games. ME3 is one of a handful of games I've ever pre-ordered (well, had pre-ordered for me at my request as a birthday present). And I very much enjoyed it overall up until the Star Child. I thought Mordin on Tuchanka, the varying options in the Quarian-Geth conflict, the many little side stories on Citadel as well as the depth of the number of encounters that were changed by little decisions when comparing a from-scratch run to an import run were excellent. I made repeated loops through the hospital on Citadel to hear the PTSD Asari's story, to see how the Marine who was going to lose a leg would fair, and even to ask Dr. Michel about the changing status of the hospital. Pretty much anywhere there was an environmental conversation on Normandy or Citadel, I'd loop by to hear it till it finished/repeated because I loved the extra life it breathed into the universe.
If I were only allowed to make one change to the endings, just a single change allowed, I'd remove the "all other synthetic life" clause from the destroy option. If choosing destroy only destroyed the Reapers, then I could say there was one choice that made Shepard the good guy, completing the mission he began with. But exterminating a race my Paragon Shep just helped achieve full sentience...that just doesn't seem like a choice a paragon should make. Nor do either of the others. Completely rewriting the entire universe into machine hybrids without their permission? Not very paragon at all. Attempting to control the Reapers after we just spent hours chastising TIM and killing off all his minions for the same plan? Also not very paragon. Unfortunately, I just dismissed all the options as not paragon for Shepard to do, and there are no options left. That's where my disappointment hit. I couldn't justify my Shepard doing any of those things as a paragon. I finally had to choose one just to get through to the end, but I wasn't pleased with it.
My Shepard's just finished disproving the entire basis of the Star Child's view of the universe, by bringing together groups that have fought for centuries, including the Quarians and Geth. My fleet has every known sentient race in the universe, including Rachni, all united under my leadership. The greatest foundation for argument against the Catalyst's assumptions in dozens of cycles is right there, and I have no option to show him this.
Signing in for this discussion on the not-so-good-yet-not-so-bad endings.
First & foremost, as you admins have requested, I give Commander Shepard the much deserved appreciation. He "has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games". And my most favorite moments during the entire trilogy, were everything after Shepard enters the Omega 4 Relay in ME2 till beginning of ME3.
As it is clear from my presence in this post, I am, just like numerous others, a little disappointed with the endings of ME3. The endings just didn't do justice to the whole journey that the dedicated players, including me, undertook right from ME1 imo. Comparing the endings and final missions of ME & ME2, here's what I think the endings and final mission of ME3 lacked:
1. Sheer Immersion: That awesome feeling when you destroy Sovereign in ME and The Collectors in ME2. That feeling of accomplishment, signifying that all the time you invested in scanning planets for minerals and searching planet surfaces for minerals was not wasted. That was absent.
2. Thrill Of The Chase: Whether its Ilos or the Omega 4 Relay, the thrill of finally catching up to your enemy on an equal foothold was also absent. The final run to the Conduit on Ilos & the fight with the Collectors immediately after passing through the O4R, were superb. ME3 lacked any such scenario. Only the time when you have to survive a number of Brutes and Banshees after bringing down the second Destroyer in the final mission was somewhat good, but still not good as those mentioned above.
3. No Major Morality Consequences: IMO, the endings defeated the RPG nature of the whole trilogy. None of the endings could differentiate whether Paragon or Renegade decisions were taken. Although destroy and control represent renegade and paragon respectively, there is almost no major difference other than the colour with which they are highlighted/executed.
4. Mystery Revealation: Concepts of The Catalyst (the fact that it was actually a sentient AI/VI/God) and Synthesis spoiled the ending for me. Also the reason for the extinction cycles. A solution to a problem? Confirmed victory of synthetics over organics? Pinnacle of evolution? ARE YOU EFFIN KIDDING ME? What is this, The Matrix?
5. Aftermath: The Council's gratitude in ME and showing TIM his place in ME2. There was no such detail provided after defeating/controlling/synthesizing the Reapers in ME3. Just two seconds worth of video for collecting 4000+ War Assets, playing multiplayer to increase Galactic Readiness and doing everything possible within the realm of fair play to make sure Shepard survived. Whether this is just a greedy move to keep the franchise alive to make more money off it or lack of time to give complete closure to the trilogy, I don't know.
6. The Normandy: The Normandy played key roles in the battle of the Citadel against Sovereign and at the center of the Galaxy against the Collectors, thanks to Joker. However, against the Reapers, Joker and the Normandy are just busy running away from the final blast. No other activity. I think Normandy deserved at least a Destroyer, if not Harbinger, for its Thanix Cannon fodder.
So thats about all of it. I will post again if anything else somes to mind.
P.S. - Sorry for the harsh remark in 4, but I think it is necessary in order to explain my discontent towards those particular concepts.
Signing in for this discussion on the not-so-good-yet-not-so-bad endings.
First & foremost, as you admins have requested, I give Commander Shepard the much deserved appreciation. He "has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games". And my most favorite moments during the entire trilogy, were everything after Shepard enters the Omega 4 Relay in ME2 till beginning of ME3.
As it is clear from my presence in this post, I am, just like numerous others, a little disappointed with the endings of ME3. The endings just didn't do justice to the whole journey that the dedicated players, including me, undertook right from ME1 imo. Comparing the endings and final missions of ME & ME2, here's what I think the endings and final mission of ME3 lacked:
1. Sheer Immersion: That awesome feeling when you destroy Sovereign in ME and The Collectors in ME2. That feeling of accomplishment, signifying that all the time you invested in scanning planets for minerals and searching planet surfaces for minerals was not wasted. That was absent.
2. Thrill Of The Chase: Whether its Ilos or the Omega 4 Relay, the thrill of finally catching up to your enemy on an equal foothold was also absent. The final run to the Conduit on Ilos & the fight with the Collectors immediately after passing through the O4R, were superb. ME3 lacked any such scenario. Only the time when you have to survive a number of Brutes and Banshees after bringing down the second Destroyer in the final mission was somewhat good, but still not good as those mentioned above.
3. No Major Morality Consequences: IMO, the endings defeated the RPG nature of the whole trilogy. None of the endings could differentiate whether Paragon or Renegade decisions were taken. Although destroy and control represent renegade and paragon respectively, there is almost no major difference other than the colour with which they are highlighted/executed.
4. Mystery Revealation: Concepts of The Catalyst (the fact that it was actually a sentient AI/VI/God) and Synthesis spoiled the ending for me. Also the reason for the extinction cycles. A solution to a problem? Confirmed victory of synthetics over organics? Pinnacle of evolution? ARE YOU EFFIN KIDDING ME? What is this, The Matrix?
5. Aftermath: The Council's gratitude in ME and showing TIM his place in ME2. There was no such detail provided after defeating/controlling/synthesizing the Reapers in ME3. Just two seconds worth of video for collecting 4000+ War Assets, playing multiplayer to increase Galactic Readiness and doing everything possible within the realm of fair play to make sure Shepard survived. Whether this is just a greedy move to keep the franchise alive to make more money off it or lack of time to give complete closure to the trilogy, I don't know.
So thats about all of it. I will post again if anything else somes to mind.
P.S. - Sorry for the harsh remark in 4, but I think it is necessary in order to explain my discontent towards those particular concepts.
Just us giving into the enemy who created the reapers and is forcing into 3 terrible choices that shepard would probably never make and then having either the reapers live so they can kill us all over again or having our forces trapt in our solar system just can't see a gold lining anywhere
Aaaw, I liked that Mordin died........Ok, I didn't mean I 'liked Mordin died'. I mean I liked what he died for. Playing my paragon character the Tchunka mission saw Mordin hell bent on curing the genophage due to what I thought was his close relationship to Eve. But in my Renegade paythrough where Wrex is dead and the other Krogan is in charge, and Eve dies because I didn't save the genophage cure data in ME2 Mordin cracks and yells, 'I made a mistake'. I was then able to save him by essentually pointing out that with Wrex, the progressive leader dead. And with Eve, the calming influence on the new leadership dead, curing the genophage was likely to result inanother Krogan rebellion and Mordin said thanks for the perspective and didn't cure the genophage......... and lived....
Can I just say.......... Wow. Whoever wrote the pathways of how that scene plays out through the past choices of ME 1 and 2 deserves a medal.
Yes, Mordin's story is my favorite of the game. He's so flawed, but so wants to fix it. Sorry, this really obviously was just tongue in cheek.
I was going to post that link to the definition of a shaggy god story, so I'm glad you beat me to it. I don't think I agree about Assassins' Creed 2 though. But the shaggy god is as big of a cliche as the hero dies to save the world.
I didn't even know there was a way for Mordin to live until a friend sent said his uber renegade did it and sent me a link to another on Youtube. My renegade was able to get Wrex to back down (I'm sure a headbutt was invloved), so he had confidence in Wrex's leadership. He just couldn't go along with the dalatress's lie either. My paragon talked Wrex down and saved the genophage data, so in her world Wrex and Eve are the Krogan power couple. He told her at the end that she was already pregnant.
Does anyone know if you can find out who wrote particular characters or missions? Some of the writing is sublime, like Turchanka and Rannoch, and some of it is a shaggy god wrapped up in a diaper that hasn't been changed in a week, like the ending.
I finally finished ME3. I have been gone from these forums for a long time and, though I knew there was disappointment in the endings, I had done everything in my power to avoid spoilers along the way. I know what I'm about to say has been said, but I'll add my impressions to the conversation just because I'm narcissistic enough to think other people care about what I have to say.
Overall I thought the game was excellent. The whole we-found-a-super-weapon-that-can-save-us-all-but-we-don't-know-what-does-so-let's-put-all-our-efforts-behind-it crucible idea was a bit contrived, but I could deal with it, and it didn't take away from all the terrific moments throughout the game. Gameplay was the best of the series, and thematically it was far superior to ME2. Only ME1 had a better theme (humanity as distrusted newcomers looking for respect), and ME3 was nearly as good storywise. I'm quite sad that its over, to be frank.
I didn't hate the ending(s). Knowing others were disappointed in the endings, I kinda went into things thinking two things might happen: 1) Shepherd would probably die and 2) Bioware would introduce some sci fi cliche deus ex machina twist. I didn't predict the nature of the twist, but I was basically right on both accounts and therefore wasn't really very thrown by them. Hence my lack of hate. I had the advantage of others' reactions, though, so I'm not claiming I'm some kind of genius or anything.
That said, I didn't think the endings were very good. I basically have three major problems, which seem to coincide with the opinions of others:
1) The star child's logic was utterly flawed, but I had no option but to accept what he was saying. As far as I can tell star child is the greatest perpetuator of genocide the galaxy had ever known, and would be considered by most people completely insane and totally evil. Yes, it thought it was going good, but that fact doesn't change the fact that its actions were pure evil and it deserved to be destroyed.
2) The theme of organics vs. synthetics was important in ME, but I never saw it as the most crucial theme of the series. It was one of several themes, and I always thought the most important of them was actually humanity's place in the galaxy and its relationships with the other races. The first game was very much about humanity's role, the second about humanity being targeted because of your actions, and the third about a human bringing the galaxy together in support of a common defense. So to elevate organics versus synthetics at the end to the crucial element above humanity's place, in a twist that came out of left field and employed a god-like deus ex-machina element, seemed very off to me, especially after my Shepherd made the geth into sentient good guys.
3) The entire point of the last game was to build war assets made up of all the races and your NPC allies, but once I hit a certain threshold my actions on that front proved irrelevant. I don't mind that there was no real happy-ever-after ending. Afterall, the reapers were too powerful to come out of this mess unscathed. But I want my actions to play a role in the outcome. Why not let me choose from sacrificial endings that involved my war assets, since that was the main game element? What if I could have chosen endings that sacrificed earth to save the rest of the galaxy, or perhaps sacrifeced the rest of the galaxy to save earth? You have to betray one group of assets to save another, because you can't save them all, and it puts humanity and earth in the central position in keeping with what I always thought was ME's most central theme. Maybe some endings kept Shepherd alive but sacrificed parts of your team and whole races, or sacrificed shepherd to preserve those same assets? Give me power to effect outcomes that also involve what I'd been doing through the whole game and ultimately the whole series.
Anyway, I thought ME3 was excellent. I had a problem with the endings, as most did. I thought it was otherwise as good as ME1 (really my favorite game ever) and far better than ME2, which was good but disappointing in a lot of ways after the first game. Overall the series was terrific, and I thank Bioware for letting me play in their world for about 300 hours or so of my life. I hope this isn't the end.
Aaaw, I liked that Mordin died........Ok, I didn't mean I 'liked Mordin died'. I mean I liked what he died for. Playing my paragon character the Tchunka mission saw Mordin hell bent on curing the genophage due to what I thought was his close relationship to Eve. But in my Renegade paythrough where Wrex is dead and the other Krogan is in charge, and Eve dies because I didn't save the genophage cure data in ME2 Mordin cracks and yells, 'I made a mistake'. I was then able to save him by essentually pointing out that with Wrex, the progressive leader dead. And with Eve, the calming influence on the new leadership dead, curing the genophage was likely to result inanother Krogan rebellion and Mordin said thanks for the perspective and didn't cure the genophage......... and lived....
Can I just say.......... Wow. Whoever wrote the pathways of how that scene plays out through the past choices of ME 1 and 2 deserves a medal.
Yes, Mordin's story is my favorite of the game. He's so flawed, but so wants to fix it. Sorry, this really obviously was just tongue in cheek.
I was going to post that link to the definition of a shaggy god story, so I'm glad you beat me to it. I don't think I agree about Assassins' Creed 2 though. But the shaggy god is as big of a cliche as the hero dies to save the world.
I didn't even know there was a way for Mordin to live until a friend sent said his uber renegade did it and sent me a link to another on Youtube. My renegade was able to get Wrex to back down (I'm sure a headbutt was invloved), so he had confidence in Wrex's leadership. He just couldn't go along with the dalatress's lie either. My paragon talked Wrex down and saved the genophage data, so in her world Wrex and Eve are the Krogan power couple. He told her at the end that she was already pregnant.
Does anyone know if you can find out who wrote particular characters or missions? Some of the writing is sublime, like Turchanka and Rannoch, and some of it is a shaggy god wrapped up in a diaper that hasn't been changed in a week, like the ending.
Yet what did we really save most of earth is destroyed our entire fleets is trapt around our damaged solar system by the reapers and our loyal squad and crew we had for all three games just diched us and said f you all to the entire galaxy?
Aaaw, I liked that Mordin died........Ok, I didn't mean I 'liked Mordin died'. I mean I liked what he died for. Playing my paragon character the Tchunka mission saw Mordin hell bent on curing the genophage due to what I thought was his close relationship to Eve. But in my Renegade paythrough where Wrex is dead and the other Krogan is in charge, and Eve dies because I didn't save the genophage cure data in ME2 Mordin cracks and yells, 'I made a mistake'. I was then able to save him by essentually pointing out that with Wrex, the progressive leader dead. And with Eve, the calming influence on the new leadership dead, curing the genophage was likely to result inanother Krogan rebellion and Mordin said thanks for the perspective and didn't cure the genophage......... and lived....
Can I just say.......... Wow. Whoever wrote the pathways of how that scene plays out through the past choices of ME 1 and 2 deserves a medal.
Yes, Mordin's story is my favorite of the game. He's so flawed, but so wants to fix it. Sorry, this really obviously was just tongue in cheek.
I was going to post that link to the definition of a shaggy god story, so I'm glad you beat me to it. I don't think I agree about Assassins' Creed 2 though. But the shaggy god is as big of a cliche as the hero dies to save the world.
I didn't even know there was a way for Mordin to live until a friend sent said his uber renegade did it and sent me a link to another on Youtube. My renegade was able to get Wrex to back down (I'm sure a headbutt was invloved), so he had confidence in Wrex's leadership. He just couldn't go along with the dalatress's lie either. My paragon talked Wrex down and saved the genophage data, so in her world Wrex and Eve are the Krogan power couple. He told her at the end that she was already pregnant.
Does anyone know if you can find out who wrote particular characters or missions? Some of the writing is sublime, like Turchanka and Rannoch, and some of it is a shaggy god wrapped up in a diaper that hasn't been changed in a week, like the ending.
Yet what did we really save most of earth is destroyed our entire fleets is trapt around our damaged solar system by the reapers and our loyal squad and crew we had for all three games just diched us and said f you all to the entire galaxy?
And In most of the endings we don't even defeat the reapers let alone that their creator is forcing to pick these 3 forced decisions
3) The entire point of the last game was to build war assets made up of all the races and your NPC allies, but once I hit a certain threshold my actions on that front proved irrelevant. I don't mind that there was no real happy-ever-after ending. Afterall, the reapers were too powerful to come out of this mess unscathed. But I want my actions to play a role in the outcome. Why not let me choose from sacrificial endings that involved my war assets, since that was the main game element? What if I could have chosen endings that sacrificed earth to save the rest of the galaxy, or perhaps sacrifeced the rest of the galaxy to save earth? You have to betray one group of assets to save another, because you can't save them all, and it puts humanity and earth in the central position in keeping with what I always thought was ME's most central theme. Maybe some endings kept Shepherd alive but sacrificed parts of your team and whole races, or sacrificed shepherd to preserve those same assets? Give me power to effect outcomes that also involve what I'd been doing through the whole game and ultimately the whole series.
Anyway, I thought ME3 was excellent. I had a problem with the endings, as most did. I thought it was otherwise as good as ME1 (really my favorite game ever) and far better than ME2, which was good but disappointing in a lot of ways after the first game. Overall the series was terrific, and I thank Bioware for letting me play in their world for about 300 hours or so of my life. I hope this isn't the end.
All very good points, but I will say that many of us have no issue with a sad ending, but sacrifices should work toward something and not the decision between 3 equally offensive choices. But, we also think that there should be options that lead toward a possible happy ending-full blown (but yes with much destruction that has already taken place).
What I feel and have said should have been done is the creation of real meaning behind the war assets. They are relegated to mere numbers with little meaning.
Consider that it makes real sense that whether Shepard lives (gasps) or not if you choose Destroy is a matter mostly due to EMS and whether or not you played multiplayer. Apparently these 2 things determine how powerful the blast is that hits Shepard when Destroy is picked. Amazing.
As far as the generic type of endings I wanted to see they would be something like this--
Reapers prevailed/galaxy in ruins Reapers destroyed/galaxy in ruins Reapers destroyed/galaxy saved mostly (some things already ruined of course)
And then along with this would be rotating possibilities based upon things done all along and things done at the end: Teammates/friends/love interest die or survive Shepard dies or survives-and things done before could have meant Shepard probably dies, possibly dies, probably survives, possibly survives with end decisions the final deciding factors.
What I had dared to hope for was full blown happy, but also the possibility of tragedy. Shepard could even have survived only to see the reapers taking over and destroying everything. Or Shepard could die and the reapers lose and everyone mourns Shepard.
Something for people to think about that say the only valid ending is a sad one-and this was discussed in a happy ending thread is this:
Everything Shepard has done has been one big sacrifice.
As well, many teammates have been sacrificing all their lives.
Some teammates just learned what life is all about.
And even if they prevail, they must now give all.
Apparently many people feel Shepard was never destined, fated, entitled or whatever you want to call it, to have a life. Shepard's never had one, so of course once Shepard secures that the lives of all these people in the galaxy (those left) will go on, Shepard needs to lose his/hers. Consider also that most of the people in the galaxy had to be forced to work for their own self-interests, their lives. Shepard had to talk them into it, or do favors for them, or fix other things that were broken, that never would have even mattered if the reapers won. Did these people just run up and volunteer? No, Shepard sought them out, and did what it took to almost bribe them to fight for their own lives.
So, at the end of the day since Shepard hasn't sacrificed enough already, by all means, let's kill him/her off. Let's do it "just because".
Let's take what we have been given as an ending now and why Shepard must die.
Control-the choice to become a god and decide what to tell the reapers to do now. A beam will shoot out allowing Shepard to assert control over the reapers, something no one that has ever been promised this before has been able to do, but so what? Shepard can control them, but will die. Ok, disregarding the fact that a dead person is likely unable to control anything, let me ask this-why does Shepard have to die, especially if s/he is controlling the reapers and all? Because, Shepard must die.
Synthesis-Another form of godhood and the destruction of the spirit and identity. The magical control is now a beam that shoots out and magically changes all DNA into one DNA. Well, let's forget for a second that this seems awfully, um stupid, and then take it further. The kid says to do this (you know get the magic started), Shepard must give his/her DNA, and apparently the kid needs a lot of it, because a toothbrush won't do. Well, I don't really think there's that much difference between the DNA from Shepard's saliva or Shepard's whole body (sizewise) when considering it must be spread out to trillions of life forms. I mean drop a teaspoon of water into a barrel of water or drop a cup of water into it and there isn't much difference, but hey it's ok. Why must Shepard dunk his/her whole body into the incredible DNA changing beam? Because Shepard must die.
Destroy-I think I love this most of all...This is genocide and fratricide. The magical synthesis beam has no morphed into one of reaper obliteration. Yay!! right? But, in order to get it to work Shepard must hit a square target that will only pop up when Shepard starts to get close to the destroy choosing device. And Shepard is now under amazing robotic control just so Shepard can logically walk towards the thing that will explode, killing him/her. And why would Shepard walk toward this boom thing? Because Shepard must die. And why must Shepard die? Because. Shepard. Must. Die.
But wait, for reasons I've already stated this is not totally so. If the god player plays multiplayer which I think Shepard would beg the god player to play, and Shepard has amassed enough war assets to get a high enough EMS, then lo and behold the magical destructo device won't go boom strong enough to kill Shepard. Amazingly awesome.
So, in conclusion. Shepard must die unless the god player intercedes.
Aaaw, I liked that Mordin died........Ok, I didn't mean I 'liked Mordin died'. I mean I liked what he died for. Playing my paragon character the Tchunka mission saw Mordin hell bent on curing the genophage due to what I thought was his close relationship to Eve. But in my Renegade paythrough where Wrex is dead and the other Krogan is in charge, and Eve dies because I didn't save the genophage cure data in ME2 Mordin cracks and yells, 'I made a mistake'. I was then able to save him by essentually pointing out that with Wrex, the progressive leader dead. And with Eve, the calming influence on the new leadership dead, curing the genophage was likely to result inanother Krogan rebellion and Mordin said thanks for the perspective and didn't cure the genophage......... and lived....
Can I just say.......... Wow. Whoever wrote the pathways of how that scene plays out through the past choices of ME 1 and 2 deserves a medal.
Yes, Mordin's story is my favorite of the game. He's so flawed, but so wants to fix it. Sorry, this really obviously was just tongue in cheek.
I was going to post that link to the definition of a shaggy god story, so I'm glad you beat me to it. I don't think I agree about Assassins' Creed 2 though. But the shaggy god is as big of a cliche as the hero dies to save the world.
I didn't even know there was a way for Mordin to live until a friend sent said his uber renegade did it and sent me a link to another on Youtube. My renegade was able to get Wrex to back down (I'm sure a headbutt was invloved), so he had confidence in Wrex's leadership. He just couldn't go along with the dalatress's lie either. My paragon talked Wrex down and saved the genophage data, so in her world Wrex and Eve are the Krogan power couple. He told her at the end that she was already pregnant.
Does anyone know if you can find out who wrote particular characters or missions? Some of the writing is sublime, like Turchanka and Rannoch, and some of it is a shaggy god wrapped up in a diaper that hasn't been changed in a week, like the ending.
Yet what did we really save most of earth is destroyed our entire fleets is trapt around our damaged solar system by the reapers and our loyal squad and crew we had for all three games just diched us and said f you all to the entire galaxy?
And In most of the endings we don't even defeat the reapers let alone that their creator is forcing to pick these 3 forced decisions
Aaaw, I liked that Mordin died........Ok, I didn't mean I 'liked Mordin died'. I mean I liked what he died for. Playing my paragon character the Tchunka mission saw Mordin hell bent on curing the genophage due to what I thought was his close relationship to Eve. But in my Renegade paythrough where Wrex is dead and the other Krogan is in charge, and Eve dies because I didn't save the genophage cure data in ME2 Mordin cracks and yells, 'I made a mistake'. I was then able to save him by essentually pointing out that with Wrex, the progressive leader dead. And with Eve, the calming influence on the new leadership dead, curing the genophage was likely to result inanother Krogan rebellion and Mordin said thanks for the perspective and didn't cure the genophage......... and lived....
Can I just say.......... Wow. Whoever wrote the pathways of how that scene plays out through the past choices of ME 1 and 2 deserves a medal.
Yes, Mordin's story is my favorite of the game. He's so flawed, but so wants to fix it. Sorry, this really obviously was just tongue in cheek.
I was going to post that link to the definition of a shaggy god story, so I'm glad you beat me to it. I don't think I agree about Assassins' Creed 2 though. But the shaggy god is as big of a cliche as the hero dies to save the world.
I didn't even know there was a way for Mordin to live until a friend sent said his uber renegade did it and sent me a link to another on Youtube. My renegade was able to get Wrex to back down (I'm sure a headbutt was invloved), so he had confidence in Wrex's leadership. He just couldn't go along with the dalatress's lie either. My paragon talked Wrex down and saved the genophage data, so in her world Wrex and Eve are the Krogan power couple. He told her at the end that she was already pregnant.
Does anyone know if you can find out who wrote particular characters or missions? Some of the writing is sublime, like Turchanka and Rannoch, and some of it is a shaggy god wrapped up in a diaper that hasn't been changed in a week, like the ending.
Yet what did we really save most of earth is destroyed our entire fleets is trapt around our damaged solar system by the reapers and our loyal squad and crew we had for all three games just diched us and said f you all to the entire galaxy?
And In most of the endings we don't even defeat the reapers let alone that their creator is forcing to pick these 3 forced decisions
DOOOOOOOM
I think we've just hit a point where we've identified brilliant and nuanced dialogue and storyboarding. And compared what we;ve seen to the not so brilliant area. And once again asked why is there such a big gap?
I got over the initial dissapointment a month back but what I can't reason, in my own mind, is how the people behind something so good faltered in the home run section. I've considered time constraints, 2 person writing team compared to the 8 who appear in the credits, (who looked over each others work to peer review). The continuation of the ME story through DLC or ME4 where the game's narrative needs the ending to be as it was.......... and by the end the question is no closer to being answered than when I started.
It is funny how even though the author the article hedged his words carefully, and tried to paint Bioware in a Neutral light, the comments left in response by Forbe's readers are anything but forgiving.
It does bring up a valid point, as one commentor pointed out, that while on the surface Bioware seems to be "listening" to their users and seem to want feedback, its actions and decision of late indicates anything but.
Take this thread for example. How, reading all the posts here and this other one ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback there are overwhelming requests by players asking for an Ending that is simply not bleak and depressing as well as an ending that encourage them to want to replay ME3.
Whether Pro Death, Pro Victory, Pro Sacrice or Pro retiring alive with love interest, almost everyone wants a reason to replay ME3 that the current Ending does not provide.
So, what does Bioware do, ignore everyone.
Personally I feel that this is a publicity stunt / PR move by Bioware. They really want to show that they are listening, prove it. ME3 is still broken.
It is funny how even though the author the article hedged his words carefully, and tried to paint Bioware in a Neutral light, the comments left in response by Forbe's readers are anything but forgiving.
It does bring up a valid point, as one commentor pointed out, that while on the surface Bioware seems to be "listening" to their users and seem to want feedback, its actions and decision of late indicates anything but.
Take this thread for example. How, reading all the posts here and this other one ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback there are overwhelming requests by players asking for an Ending that is simply not bleak and depressing as well as an ending that encourage them to want to replay ME3.
Whether Pro Death, Pro Victory, Pro Sacrice or Pro retiring alive with love interest, almost everyone wants a reason to replay ME3 that the current Ending does not provide.
So, what does Bioware do, ignore everyone.
Personally I feel that this is a publicity stunt / PR move by Bioware. They really want to show that they are listening, prove it. ME3 is still broken.
Fix it.
You know what? I will put this bluntly. Screw Dragon Age 3. Where's the dialogue with the fans over this game. I could care freaking less about the desire to make a better game that they will sell. I want a better ending for one that they already sold. This game needs a decent ending or segue into more DLC (that I am not opposed to buying if things are made right).
All that dialogue is doing is setting up what they think is a potential buying audience. But this still leaves loyal fans in the dust.
This is really kind of maddening. What have many of us been begging for all along? We've wanted Bioware to talk with us. Now they want to talk, with potential customers. Arrrrrgh!!!!
It is funny how even though the author the article hedged his words carefully, and tried to paint Bioware in a Neutral light, the comments left in response by Forbe's readers are anything but forgiving.
It does bring up a valid point, as one commentor pointed out, that while on the surface Bioware seems to be "listening" to their users and seem to want feedback, its actions and decision of late indicates anything but.
Take this thread for example. How, reading all the posts here and this other one ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback there are overwhelming requests by players asking for an Ending that is simply not bleak and depressing as well as an ending that encourage them to want to replay ME3.
Whether Pro Death, Pro Victory, Pro Sacrice or Pro retiring alive with love interest, almost everyone wants a reason to replay ME3 that the current Ending does not provide.
So, what does Bioware do, ignore everyone.
Personally I feel that this is a publicity stunt / PR move by Bioware. They really want to show that they are listening, prove it. ME3 is still broken.
Fix it.
You know what? I will put this bluntly. Screw Dragon Age 3. Where's the dialogue with the fans over this game. I could care freaking less about the desire to make a better game that they will sell. I want a better ending for one that they already sold. This game needs a decent ending or segue into more DLC (that I am not opposed to buying if things are made right).
All that dialogue is doing is setting up what they think is a potential buying audience. But this still leaves loyal fans in the dust.
This is really kind of maddening. What have many of us been begging for all along? We've wanted Bioware to talk with us. Now they want to talk, with potential customers. Arrrrrgh!!!!
you know what they say tho, no news is good news? hopefully we will all be amazed by the EC and finally have a reason to play .ME again and purchase dragon age 3 blindly. But lets be real, there arrogant and smug attitude ever since the debacle of an ending doesnt give much hope, and with how crap DA2 was, i'll rent DA 3 at best.
you know what they say tho, no news is good news? hopefully we will all be amazed by the EC and finally have a reason to play .ME again and purchase dragon age 3 blindly. But lets be real, there arrogant and smug attitude ever since the debacle of an ending doesnt give much hope, and with how crap DA2 was, i'll rent DA 3 at best.
I do hope and will keep hoping that I will be amazed by the EC. I just got a little bit (could you tell?) angry that something fans have wanted to have happen is now being done for another game. Nothing against DA3 or DA's fans. I have DAO and enjoyed it, but they've continually talked AT ME fans that have raised the issue and that already paid for the game(s) and haven't started this real dialogue yet. They start threads (we're listening and suggestions and so on), but don't talk back to fans. Still, I hope.
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again the catalyst isnt the good guy the enemy that has been destroying advanced organics for generations and then saying their going to save us from advanced synthetics but then use the geth to kill us or fight us with their reaper code after nearly destroying the galaxy and do this a thousand times over do you really think the reapers are just gonna sit down and drink milk and cookies with us I hardly doubt so 
