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[Archonsg]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Bioware, Dragon Age 3 and Mass Effect 3's effect - Forbes

It is funny how even though the author the article hedged his words carefully, and tried to paint Bioware in a Neutral light, the comments left in response by Forbe's readers are anything but forgiving.

It does bring up a valid point, as one commentor pointed out, that while on the surface Bioware seems to be "listening" to their users and seem to want feedback, its actions and decision of late indicates anything but.

Take this thread for example.
How, reading all the posts here and this other one ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback there are overwhelming requests by players asking for an Ending that is simply not bleak and depressing as well as an ending that encourage them to want to replay ME3.

Whether Pro Death, Pro Victory, Pro Sacrice or Pro retiring alive with love interest, almost everyone wants a reason to replay ME3 that the current Ending does not provide.

So, what does Bioware do, ignore everyone.

Personally I feel that this is a publicity stunt / PR move by Bioware.
They really want to show that they are listening, prove it. ME3 is still broken.

Fix it.

You know what? I will put this bluntly. Screw Dragon Age 3. Where's the dialogue with the fans over this game. I could care freaking less about the desire to make a better game that they will sell. I want a better ending for one that they already sold. This game needs a decent ending or segue into more DLC (that I am not opposed to buying if things are made right).

All that dialogue is doing is setting up what they think is a potential buying audience. But this still leaves loyal fans in the dust.

This is really kind of maddening. What have many of us been begging for all along? We've wanted Bioware to talk with us. Now they want to talk, with potential customers. Arrrrrgh!!!!

The funny thing is, I believe for the most part, their potential customers ARE ME3 customers. Screw us here, and more than likely they ARE screwing with a good portion of that customer base, who like myself, have already bought and played Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2.

More importantly, beacause we do have copies of those games, can see the retardation of the RPG element and progression from Good to bad to worse going from DA:O / ME1 to DA2 / ME2  to ME3. 
If anything, DA fans would probably be a lot more critical since if ME3's issues aren't adressed, it only highlights and paints all future Bioware games in a bad light in regards to what matters to us, CHOICE, ROMANCE and Role Playing elements that is classic to Baldur's Gate. 

DA2 dropped "player choice" too and was shoddy but nothing compared to ME3's ending. So think about it, going from DA2 to ME3, and seeing the trend and direction that Bioware has taken, why would anyone believe for a moment that DA3 will be treated any differently? 

Modifié par Archonsg, 02 juin 2012 - 10:30 .

[clarkusdarkus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

you know what they say tho, no news is good news? hopefully we will all be amazed by the EC and finally have a reason to play .ME again and purchase dragon age 3 blindly. But lets be real, there arrogant and smug attitude ever since the debacle of an ending doesnt give much hope, and with how crap DA2 was, i'll rent DA 3 at best.

I do hope and will keep hoping that I will be amazed by the EC.  I just got a little bit (could you tell?) angry that something fans have wanted to have happen is now being done for another game.  Nothing against DA3 or DA's fans.  I have DAO and enjoyed it, but they've continually talked AT ME fans that have raised the issue and that already paid for the game(s) and haven't started this real dialogue yet.  They start threads (we're listening and suggestions and so on), but don't talk back to fans.  Still, I hope.

I think its there assumption that, because we purchased there products already, we'll blindly buy anything related to it, so in there eyes, were already on board,so they'll target new audiences and gamers. It's disheartening to the point where it does get you mad, so u have every right too as iv'e felt it many a time. This thread has countless brilliant feedback and yet we all know deep down there not listening. It's my love for mass effect that keeps me coming on here but at some point i'll be sick of how they treat there loyal fanbase.

[Redbelle]

I remember a vid where BW fans mascot was a picture of Futurama's Fry with a fistful of dollar's declaring 'Shut Up And Take My Money'. The level of consumer confidence in BW at the time must have been staggering for them to have such confidence in their product. But if a company starts taking that confidence for granted and pulls back their investment in something they believe will sell........ well it may sell well as a sequel, but the next one after that will suffer fan wrath for it.

[BlueStorm83]

---  The problem with BioWare asking for fan input for Dragon Age 3 is that BioWare doesn't understand that many people who are outraged over Mass Effect 3 (not just the ending, but also the Mandatory Multiplayer, and the From Ashes Day One ON THE DISC Fiasco) are not interested in buying anything from them any time soon.

BioWare might have learned their lesson here.  They might make Dragon Age 3 their best game ever.  But for me, it's too late.

Imagine this.  I'm married.  I LOVE my wife; absolutely nuts about her.  We've got the perfect life.  Then one day while I'm at work, her ex boyfriend Manly McHero, an Army Ranger who used to be my best friend and who was presumed dead, shows up at the door.  In a flood of emotion and grief and whatever else, what was originally supposed to be a friendly reunion goes too far and they wind up in bed.  When I get home they're both ashamed, they tell me what happened, they're so so sorry, they want to die, he's going to lead a life of poverty and pennance, she swears she'll never do it again.  Maybe they are sorry.  Maybe they mean everything they say.  Even if they DO everything they say to me, that doesn't change what happened.  I loved the both of them; but now it's TOO ****ING LATE.

That's where this is for me, concerning BioWare.  It's too ****ing late.  My dissatisfaction with them began with playing Dragon Age Origins, getting my Dwarf Commoner Murin out of Orzamar, finding a dog, and finally making camp for the first time.  And there's some guy in my camp who needs my help!  And when I pick "Accept Quest" it takes me to a GODDAMN DLC PURCHASE PAGE.  What??? 

ON THE DISC IS AN NPC WHO WANTS TO SELL ME DLC.

Yep.  Dragon Age Origins was a MARVELOUS game to me in every other way.  The only thing I felt the ending lacked was that I couldn't get Alistair and that princess whatever, Kern Rogaine's daughter together.  I really do believe that with ALL my roleplaying, and all my emphasis on "just trust me and it always works out" that those two couldn't just give it a shot.  But that's a minor point, even in reality people don't listen to me no matter how right I am.

After that, Dragon Age: Origins sequel was actually "Dragon Age Sidestory: Revenge of some Action Game with a complete Douche as a main character, with same sex party members where your only option is flirt with them or have them hate you."  Nothing against gays; but I'm not gay and I can have gay friends who I do NOT flirt with.  I accept them as gay, they accept me as STRAIGHT, and that's that.  More important, the strategic combat became BULL**** button mashery with enemies that spawn behind randomly mid fight, so **** any sense of strategic positioning.  **** it right out the window on prom night.

Then From Ashes.  "Don't worry, it's not a major part of the story, it's just a little flavor!"  BULL****.  There are more NPCs in the game that react uniquely to Javik than there are to any other character.  "It wasn't ready when the game went to disc!"  BULL****.  It's ON the Disc.  "It was made by different people!"  BULL****.  It's integrated into the game, meaning the same people who put it all together had to put this together with it all. 

"Multiplayer will be a different way to get the best ending.  You can get the same endings by completely ignoring Multiplayer!"  TRUE!  In that ALL THE ENDINGS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME, BARRING COLORS AND AROUND 5% OF THE FOOTAGE.  However, there's the ONLY good thing about any ending: that Shepard may not die senselessly in a monumentally pointless and stupid way.  Therefore...  BULL****.

"People don't understand the ending!"  BULL****.  We understand it.  We understand it better than you do.  Starboy says "SYNTHETICS ALWAYS REBEL AGAINST AND KILL THEIR CREATORS!!!"  FACT: The Geth did not rebel against the Quarrians.  The Quarrians overreacted to Geth developing a very simplistic networked intelligence.  The Geth were even submitting to their own destruction until Quarrians started killing OTHER QUARRIANS who wanted to defend the Geth.  FACT:  The Geth, now truly intelligent, accept the Quarrians as their creators and VOLUNTEERED to return to their original role as helpers, only now as equals, not as servants.  People UNDERSTAND that the Ending is FORCED upon us by A FALSE PREMISE which OUR SHEPARDS would never EVER believe.  He's Commander Shepard, not COMMANDED SHEEP.

"People say it's too sad!"  BULL****!  I say that the ending isn't SAD ENOUGH!  I was full on prepared to have an ending where ONLY Shepard survives.  ALL of his allies die in the line of duty.  The Normandy is scrap, Joker's shattered body is lying lifeless in the wreckage, and the last one to die is my beloved (LOVE INTEREST NAME HERE) who has massive internal injury and chokes to death on her own blood in my arms.  Earth is a charred wreck, everyone he cares about is dead, but dammit, we saved the galaxy, and we did it on our own terms.

"It's Artistic!"  Yeah, it's artistic.  Once you do something creative, it's art.  The Mona Lisa (La Giaconda as it's actually titled by DaVinci) is art.  That jar full of ****** and a cricifix is art too.  Guess which one is more valuable?  The one that people LIKE.  Art doesn't occupy some sacred space that's immune to people's reactions.  Ever hear the term "Starving artist?"  Know where that came from?  Here's some history
In the reniassance, Artists had to find rich men to pay them for their art.  Be it music, sculpture, painting, bronze work, whatever.  Your Parton would pay for your materials, he would pay for your shop, he would buy your art, and he would advertise you to his other wealthy well respected friends.  Know why he did that?  Because he liked your art.
But what if nobody liked your art?  Then you didn't get supplies.  You didn't get a workshop.  You didn't get advertisements.  You didn't sell your art.  You didn't get any money.  You lived in a shack or an abandoned building, much like a drug addict would, and you survived on scraps or charity or theft.  If you were as bad at stealing, scavenging, and begging as you were at art, then you STARVED TO DEATH.
BioWare, I do not deny that the ending of Mass Effect 3 is art.  The whole game is art.  It's actually art made of the culmination of thousands upon thousands of lesser pieces of art.  However, the ending is not enjoyed by many of your Patrons.  And some of us have already begun withdrawing our advertising, deciding to not buy your new pieces, and withdrawing funding from your workshop.
Art can be changed!  If Michelangelo originally carved David with a gigantic penis on his forehead, and his Patron (THE POPE) didn't like that, he could say, "Michelangelo!  Take up your chisel and remove from David's brow that pendulous SCHLONG!"  Michelangelo could say "No, your Holiness!  THIS IS ART!"  Or he could chisel that dick off, and remain a famous, rich man.  All we're saying is that your otherwise FABULOUS work of art has an unnecessary penis hanging off its forehead.  Grab your chisel and make it nice, and we'll let you in on our next project.  P.S., we hope you like painting ceilings!

---  WHEW, that was long.

Oh!  About 10 pages ago, one of the Salarians said that SOMEONE had suggested in the game that there might be an intelligence controlling the reapers, but he didn't know who.  I DO!

That was Vendetta, the Prothean AI.  He said that on Thessia.  He said that it was only his belief, and that the presence of another Master of the Cycles was only something that he presumed, but had never observed.

Far be it from me to question Vendetta, but that's a hell of a presumption, since there's NO evidence of it.  Especially since the Reapers have already claimed that they do the Cycles because that- well, they just do, and **** anyone who wants to know why.

[3DandBeyond]

@Bluestorm83,
That was a heck of a post and I mean it in the best sense.

Absolutely, art is what people like. Period. No artist creates in a vacuum. And I said it in another thread, art like beauty is in the eye of the beholder-the viewer not the creator of a piece. I can paint something and declare all I want I am an artist, but unless someone looking at what I have painted agrees, it is just a wasteful use of paint.

I was the one that said someone had said something about their being an intelligence over the reapers, but the case I was making is that anything that suggested there was some overseeing power was a) a minor point and easily forgettable. No one, in all the threads I've read and postings I've seen ever mentioned that part before, so it was incredibly important to the story.

And yes, the From Ashes DLC crap is just that, crap. Even the EA CEO admitted it was a great way to get people to pay $20 more for the game. I read somewhere a long ways back that it had been intended originally to be released as part of the game-my failing memory wants to say it was in the Final Hours app. And that was a trend already begun with ME2 and Lair of the Shadow Broker. If someone had Liara as the LI in ME1 and had a 360, oops sorry you have to pay to see her again in ME2. And again someone at Bioware had said she was originally supposed to have a much bigger role and huge story in ME2.

I've never believed the ending is sad. I've always believed it is actually devoid of any feeling whatsoever. It left me with my mouth hanging open wondering just what the heck happened. In fact, a lot of my feelings for it took some time to set in and took a few replays. It was like I had to keep listening to what the kid was telling me because I couldn't put my finger on any one thing that was wrong with it and then I knew, the whole thing stunk. It wasn't one thing, it was almost everything. I understood it and wished I didn't because I couldn't believe anyone would think this was just so wonderful and a great ending. The sadness I felt wasn't in-game sadness, and it was more like demoralized depression. I was sad that this is how they chose to end it all. And then later I was sadder still that they knew fans would be unhappy saying goodbye to Shepard and this is how they chose to let them say that goodbye. And then still later, I was sad because in order to play any of the ME games again I actually felt I was forcing myself, whereas before I had looked forward to creating new Shepards and playing full renegade to see how different the ending would be.

My ire over the DA3 thing is something you summed up well. ME fans often are DA fans as well. Bioware all the way, but not anymore and I had actually gotten DAO as a gift when it first came out. Bought some DLC and then fairly quickly the deluxe version came out and it was less expensive for me to buy than the rest of the DLC I didn't own.

I do think opening up dialogue with fans is important, but this again indicates some real lack of understanding of what fans are.

The way I see it is this:
Q and A with fans for DA3: Marketing
Q and A with fans for ME3: Customer Service

Mess up the second one, forget about the first one.

[Untonic]

IF you guys can pull it off, the "Extended Ending" will bring me back to the barely tolerant bar for ME3, but other than that, keep dreaming about redeeming your fan base. Cheers.

[Gamer391]

3DandBeyond wrote...

You know what? I will put this bluntly.  Screw Dragon Age 3.  Where's the dialogue with the fans over this game.  I could care freaking less about the desire to make a better game that they will sell.  I want a better ending for one that they already sold.  This game needs a decent ending or segue into more DLC (that I am not opposed to buying if things are made right).

All that dialogue is doing is setting up what they think is a potential buying audience.  But this still leaves loyal fans in the dust.

This is really kind of maddening.  What have many of us been begging for all along?  We've wanted Bioware to talk with us.  Now they want to talk, with potential customers.  Arrrrrgh!!!!

Agreed. We loyal fans have indeed ended up in dust. I would classify ME3 as unfinished product and the endings a big disappointment compared to ME and ME2. The final "breathe" video is also placed only to increase the life span of the franchise to make more money off it. That also explains the lack of any aftermath content. They will introduce DLCs for that, which will be unfairly overpriced. And if the endings DLC pack is not free, if it is ever released, Bioware can go to .... Tuchanka . But seriously, stop being greedy Bioware <_<.

[lerpumpkinzero]

My biggest gripe about the endings are that they are so much the same. I'm upset that Shephard dies because I'm attached to the character, but I accept that that is how the writers thought the series should end. I don't NEED Shephard to end up with her/his lover so that I can imagine them flying off into the sunset.

What I hate is that all endings are the same with slightly altered footage, and that they BARELY show anything of the consequences of each choice. We see so little of the consequences of each choice that none of the three endings can truly be satisfying for a trilogy so grand and detailed as Mass Effect. What does control, destruction or synthesis mean for the various alien societies and their futures? Well, we'll never know because the ending only shows the end of the battle and a few quick shots of 3 Normandy crew members. We don't get to see if there is outrage over the synthesis of organic beings and synthetic, or what kind of world they might create. What about destruction? Not only are all species crippled from the war, but they no longer have synthetic lifeforms to help them, and what about the warning of the catalyst that organics will create synthetics again? Perhaps that can be left up to the imagination, but even then, not enough has been delivered with the current endings. Also, Joker doesn't even appear a little sad that EDI is dead (cause she would be in destruction, buuuuuuut he looks exactly the same as he does in all the other endings). Then there's control... So the Reapers are still there, but now under the control of Shephard... somehow... even though she/he is dead..... ish... ...or something. So do all synthetics become mindless machines then?

There is so much that SHOULD have been explored in the three endings in order to give the players a sense that they had infact CHANGED the universe, and that their decisions mattered, but the endings provided do NOTHING to support that. The only things players seem to change is a few buildings, a few extra effects added to some leaves and characters, and the fate of three normandy crew members (and calling it the fate hardly means it's a true epilogue. It's whether they live or die, without any clues as to how they feel about the great change in their world).

This is the only time I think I would turn to fan-fiction over the original piece because these endings do not display any TRUE consequences of each choice. They might as well be the same, since the repercussions of each choice on a GRAND scale is the same, given what we see. Yes, you can imagine that after the pathetic footage for the ending finishes, there is the great societal change, and you can imagine how some people might act to this change, but none of that is seen. I don't need 100 years of story telling me every detail of how every species reacted to the change after the game ends, however, an INDICATION of the reactions would have been better than what bioware has left us with. The only thing we get to see is whether or not earth is completely destroyed, and whether or not Shephard dies or has one breath whatever. The focus is FAR TOO NARROW for the ending of a TRILOGY. What about all the other species we have invested in over the series? What happens to them? I don't need everything wrapped up in a little box. I don't need to know EXACTLY what happens because of the genophage cure, or EXACTLY what happens between the Quarians and the Geth. What I do need, however, is how the species that I, and every other Mass Effect gamer, have invested in reacts, and what direction they might take in response to the change.

These endings should have had a sense of how the player's choices effected the Mass Effect universe on a GRAND SCALE because the final choice is a grand scale choice. Little details on the remaining crew and love interest? Sure, but there should have been a feeling for the direction that each major species would take in reaction to the choice. Instead, we are left with nearly identical endings which do not inspire replays with various Shephards, nor the imagination required to feel satisfied with the ending of a great, groundbreaking and moving series.

Sigh... Guess I should go look up that fan fiction...

[Gamer391]

Untonic wrote...

IF you guys can pull it off, the "Extended Ending" will bring me back to the barely tolerant bar for ME3, but other than that, keep dreaming about redeeming your fan base. Cheers.

Same here. Keep dreaming Bioware if you are only going to extend the original endings. You want back your fan base? Make different endings based on the morality of the player character. Paragons and Renegades should get different, mutually exclusive endings, not same-puke-different-mouths stuff that you have currently got going. Or else, don't call it an RPG. And for Keelah's sake, kill the damn Catalyst! Cheers.

[akenn312]

I do hate the current ending but, I have to ask, what is up with creators and not being able to flesh these things out? Mass Effect is not the only series that screwed up it's trilogy. But almost every trilogy does. It's almost like they just forget basic science, cannon and the intelligence of the audience just to create some action packed dramatic end.
My proof is within this great and funny website: http://www.howitshouldhaveended.com/

We all know ME3's problem, but if you want to relate ME3 to a movie they all have this stuff, plot holes, Deus Ex Machina, & ect. Personally i'm sick of it. Please Writers, Directors, Producers and Developers. please take some time to check your story to make sure it makes sense rather than worry about having an edgy "artistic" dramatic end. 

Point 1: Captain America's ending...which actually relates to Shepard's stupid sacrifice. 
http://www.youtube.c...=3&feature=plcp


Point 2: Return of the Jedi 
This actually makes me realize why the prequels sucked Lucas had the ability to pull a lot of BS out of his backside. 
http://www.youtube.c...&feature=relmfu


Point 3: Aliens 
I always thought about this, but just accepted it because I was 18 and really just liked the action. 



I'm not defending this ending, I'm just tired of these creators insulting the intelligence of the watchers/players that we won't notice this stuff eventually. 


Honestly that is why Bubbles and people like him tick me off a bit. They just basically say "It was cool that Shepard scarified himself and all the action was Wizard! That's what the creators rely on to make bank. Sorry but there are a bunch of fans out there with much more intelligence that see this ending as BS. I'm glad Bioware is at least trying to fix this. It was time for the fans to finally say something about this stuff, it has gone on for years. We have accepted, it but now creators should have learned from past mistakes and improved.


I can take movie and videogame mistakes to a pont, but just don't expect me to accept evey plot hole and mistake just because you think i'm a fanboy that will accept everyitng. Make a small effort to give me a good story. 

Modifié par akenn312, 03 juin 2012 - 08:40 .

[Redbelle]

I love those youtubes.

And I'm willing to accept cracks in narrative. But if those cracks widen to shatter suspension of disbelief then the story fails. The whole point of fiction writing is to wrap you up in a make believe world and keep you there. Many have been saying that suspension of belief was shattered since they completed ME3.

I don't deny that BW messed up the ending. And hopefully the ECDLC will bring further closure to the ME saga. (I'm staying open to the possibility). But since the writing team lost a vast amount of ME enthusiasts who have since been trying to figure out what went wrong and hacked the ending to death to see what makes it tick.......... They have their work cut out for them.

Modifié par Redbelle, 03 juin 2012 - 08:28 .

[ElMuchu]

Gamer391 wrote...

Untonic wrote...

IF you guys can pull it off, the "Extended Ending" will bring me back to the barely tolerant bar for ME3, but other than that, keep dreaming about redeeming your fan base. Cheers.

Same here. Keep dreaming Bioware if you are only going to extend the original endings. You want back your fan base? Make different endings based on the morality of the player character. Paragons and Renegades should get different, mutually exclusive endings, not same-puke-different-mouths stuff that you have currently got going. Or else, don't call it an RPG. And for Keelah's sake, kill the damn Catalyst! Cheers.

This plus the possibility in having a happy end would be perfect for me

[Stigweird85]

Are people still feeling hurt by this? Seriously get a grip. EC has been announced and we don't know what this will bring. It could be epic it could be awful we don't know.

Personally I will be buying the next Bioware product and I will probably pre-order too. Even IF you say that all of Mass Effect 3 is awful( I don't think this in the slightest) the Bioware still have a massive back catalogue of success and I would be willing to overlook a stumble rather than based all future decisions off a single blunder.

I wait patiently for the EC and will quite happily wait a year for it(providing it has hours of content akin to a full blown expansion)

There is far too much hate on these threads, I know I will get flamed and/or trolled for this but I still support Bioware,

Modifié par bigstig, 03 juin 2012 - 12:11 .

[Moutoku]

single player should be longer because it was... AWESOME!!! and that includes the tri-coloured, willywonker chewy jawbreaker endings!

mordin's final song

the fleet battles

tali

Romance scenes

Liara T'soni battle armour and naked scenes (WOOOOHOOOOO!!!)

Playing catch me if you can with the reapers during the Galaxy map! (can't touch THIS!!!)

The Battle of Thessia

Pwning Kai Leng

Thane Vs Kai Leng (so Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon)

Eve's speeches during the genophage part of the campaign.

The promise between Garrus and Shepard to meet again in a bar in heaven.

Saving Miranda Lawson from her father issues.

Jack and Shepard dancing

Conrad Verner's utter naive noobyness!

Touching the feces device on the Salarian homeworld of Surkesh (MWA HA HA HA)

Shepard and Samatha in the shower (guess it's a future vision of showering in a swimsuit and wet uniform contests

shepard's nightmare realm

playing matchmaker

the inverted morality choices (hmm, to mercy-kill or let a sick batarian live to an unknown tommorrow?)

Javik (enough said)

out-boxing James Vega (hehe)

[Moutoku]

bigstig wrote...

Are people still feeling hurt by this? Seriously get a grip. EC has been announced what the EC we don't know. It could be epic it could be awful we don't know.

Personally I will be buying the next Bioware product and I will probably pre-order too. Even IF you say that all of Mass Effect 3 is awful( I don't think this in the slightest) the Bioware still have a massive back catalogue of success and I would be willing to overlook a stumble rather than based all future decisions off a single blunder.

I wait patiently for the EC and will quite happily wait a year for it(providing it has hours of content akin to a full blown expansion)

There is far too much hate on these threads, I know I will get flamed and/or trolled for this but I still support Bioware,

Just clarify why Joker and the Normady ran away and I'll be fine with blue pill, the green pill and the red pill for the ending to the Shepard Saga:P (Please fix the multiplayer:?). Anyway GO BIOWARE GO!

[Archonsg]

@elmuchu

Deginitely a happy ending.
Personally, I think way too many people early on for reasons of their own said that they are fine with a sad ending, but reading their posts, often meant to say "fine with a sad ending if, it was one of many". unfortunately, Bioware seemed to take these post literrally without reading the body of their post and understsnd what was being said. understandable since its probably some poor intern tasked to speed read postings and was asked to look for key words in a sentence.

In any case, sad is fine, depressing is fine, sacrificial (not god damned suicides) is fine but only if they are part of multiple endings including a happy one.

Modifié par Archonsg, 03 juin 2012 - 11:49 .

[Redbelle]

Moutoku wrote...

single player should be longer because it was... AWESOME!!! and that includes the tri-coloured, willywonker chewy jawbreaker endings!

mordin's final song

the fleet battles

tali

Romance scenes

Liara T'soni battle armour and naked scenes (WOOOOHOOOOO!!!)

Playing catch me if you can with the reapers during the Galaxy map! (can't touch THIS!!!)

The Battle of Thessia

Pwning Kai Leng

Thane Vs Kai Leng (so Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon)

Eve's speeches during the genophage part of the campaign.

The promise between Garrus and Shepard to meet again in a bar in heaven.

Saving Miranda Lawson from her father issues.

Jack and Shepard dancing

Conrad Verner's utter naive noobyness!

Touching the feces device on the Salarian homeworld of Surkesh (MWA HA HA HA)

Shepard and Samatha in the shower (guess it's a future vision of showering in a swimsuit and wet uniform contests

shepard's nightmare realm

playing matchmaker

the inverted morality choices (hmm, to mercy-kill or let a sick batarian live to an unknown tommorrow?)

Javik (enough said)

out-boxing James Vega (hehe)

That boxing scene sold the character of Vega for me, especially after he crashed the Kodiak into the other transporter. He reminded me of a guy from the CGI Starship Troopers who from time to time nearly frags the LT whenever he comes to his rescue. Buuuuuut, after his boxing scene he seemed...... I dunno, tamed. Like he'd been dialed down a bit. I still like the character but for the newbie to the series he needed more time to shine with more interesting things to do.

[Redbelle]

Archonsg wrote...

@elmuchu

Deginitely a happy ending.
Personally, I think way too many people early on for reasons of their own said that they are fine with a sad ending, but reading their posts, often meant to say "fine with a sad ending if, it was one of many". unfortunately, Bioware seemed to take these post literrally without reading the body of their post and understsnd what was being said. understandable since its probably some poor intern tasked to speed read postings and was asked to look for key words in a sentence.

In any case, sad is fine, depressing is fine, sacrificial (not god damned suicides) is fine but only if they are part of multiple endings including a happy one.

I wouldn't mind a sad ending if it was well portrayed. Me and friend bested Halo Reach and the ending in that was as bittersweet as it came. I couldn't call it happy but the fact that I was shown that my actions had the desired effect made the sadness acceptable. Context as to what the sacrifice acheived made that possible.

Put it another way. Shepard is not Tasha Yar who dies for little reason in ST:TNG. Tasha's death only served the narrative in that it made the big tar blob that killed her the obvious bad guy.

[BlueStorm83]

--- Lerpumpkinzero above says that he didn't need to know EXACTLY what happens with the cure of the Genophage or EXACTLY what happens to the Geth and Quarrians for him to be satisfied. That's cool.

I, however, DO need to know exactly what happens. I did those things to cause the things that will happen next, and I'd like to know how my decisions played out.

ME3 had a couple decisions you can make (minor ones in support conversations) that would actually reduce your EMS, as of course there were more than a couple bigger decisions that did the same. The "right" thing could weaken you, militarily. I'd like to see this play out in an ending built entirely of little cutscenes illustrating the effects, overlayed by a timeline/codex thing narrating how my decisions shaped the future. I'd like to find out that in 2231 (just guessing, don't want to look it up) the Second Krogan Rebellions began, despite the efforts of Urdnot Wrex to keep the peace (My bad!). They were ended conventionally by the still unified Sword Fleet, including the now rebuilt Batarian Navy, (Afraid they'd betray me, whew) the survivors having abandoned the hedgemony and petitioned to once again join Council space. I want to see Rachni helping to rebuild the relays (good thing I saved them!) I want narration to tell me that Admiral Hackett retired in 2598 (again, don't care to learn real dates) to Thessia, tired of the lonely military life. I'd like to have Conrad end up with that green Asari, the one that the Thorian had enslaved, who I saved. I want tons and tons of little scenes play out, each and every one tailored to EVERY SINGLE DECISION I made. That, and removing the nonsensical Starboy with his already proven wrong ideas, will satisfy me.

--- Bigstig, yes, we're still angry. And I don't appreciate being told to "get a grip." You believe the endings were fine; okay, that's your perrogative. You recieved your money's worth for your purchase. I did not. The endings did not live up to what they said of the endings. The multiplayer was NOT optional toward getting the best ending, like they claimed. And, as I keep bringing up, From Ashes was on the disc. I had to pay 10 dollars to get... what I could already PHYSICALLY hold in my hand.

We don't say that all of Mass Effect 3 was terrible. That's exactly the problem. It went from being an unbelievable experience, the best bioware game I'd played, into QUACK!

That didn't make any sense there, did it? Exactly. Suddenly, something that made sense stopped making sense, had no explanation, and then ended. I'm being better than the ending here, because at least I'm following the nonsense up with an explanation. BioWare has followed their ending up with a mix of no dialogue with the fans as well as condecention. Not Condensation. They're condescending.

BioWare DOES have a large back catalog of great games. But the past does not provide absolute proof of what the future would be. You could have made the same point when BioWare was founded that they'd never made a good game before, so they would never make a good one in the future. You can go to a Funeral and say, "Nah, this guy's gotten up after laying down for almost 100 years so far. He'll be getting up soon, yeah?" Things change.

Once upon a time, a game came out. It cost 70 dollars. You went to the store, paid 70 dollars, and got that game. You brought it home and could explore that game's content to your heart's content.

Now, a game comes out. It costs 60 dollars. I go to the store, and buy it. I come home. The game now has to connect to an online account? But I only want the single player story. Single Player is offline, or am I mistaken? Hmm. Okay. NOW it's saying that there's more game it wants me to download. That costs 10 dollars. I THOUGHT this was a 60 dollar game, but I may have been mistaken. Now it costs 70 dollars. Okay. NOW to get the "best" ending I have to play multiplayer? I THOUGHT that this was a single player game. Was I mistaken?

I was not mistaken. I believed the things the advertising told me. The advertising also told me that
1) you would not pick between endings A B and C.
2) there would be so many endings that almost no two would be alike
3) multiplayer was completely optional and unnecessary to get any of the single player endings.

All 3 of those things are falsehoods.

Now, Stig, you can look past them and keep trusting BioWare. Your call there, bro. I am less forgiving. If a Restaurant ****s up my lunch order once, I say that it may have been a mistake. If they **** it up a second time, I wait a month before buying from them again, hoping that whoever was responsible would learn the roped. If they **** it up a third time, I withdraw my business. There are LOTS of restaurants. There are LOTS of game developers.

It's sad that I don't trust BioWare anymore! I ****ing LOVED these guys! People would say to me, "I need a game with a great story, I'm tired of games that make your brain turn off and all that crap!" I'd say "Get BioShock, get an Elder Scrolls or a Fallout, or get anything at all from BioWare." One day that changed to "Get BioShock, get an Elder Scrolls or a Fallout, or get anything at all from BioWare BESIDES Dragon Age 2."

I don't have all the money in the world. The busy season at work of 60 hours a week has just hit a dry time. I have 17 hours a week now. I can't afford to risk my money on a company whose new trend is to disappoint me. That's sad as all hell, but it's the simple truth. BioWare can repair their broken ending that did not deliver on their initial claims, or they can accept the knowledge that they no longer make what I, as one very humble example, want.

--- That said, if you like what they make, by all means, pay them for it. That's what capitalism is; you pay for what you like.

[BlueStorm83]

Wow, how do my one paragraph replies always turn into dissertations? Sigh.

--- And I agree, Vega needed more time to become a fleshed out character. I'd have liked (in a perfect world!) every character to have gotten a two mission mini-arc. Including the ME2 people. It would have been nice if you could bring them all along for one mission, as a squad member, like how Liara came back for a day trip in Lair of the Shadow Broker.

--- Side Point! I liked how Lair of the Shadow Broker handled Liara in ME2. She'd changed so much without Shempard there to rely on, and it really solidified her as someone I liked. In ME1, I never brought her along or really even talked to her. She just bored the hell out of me. After Shadow Broker, I replayed ME1 ALWAYS bringing Liara with me.

[Dadealus]

Well I just finished the game for the first time... I really enjoyed the game all up until the ending. it seemed like you guys rushed/cop'ed out on the ending. I don't see how any of the endings were acceptable for anyone. the endings just don't follow anything the entire game was based on. I sit here thinking ... would it not have been better if the reapers had just won? ...and defeated all our heroes as they give it their all as they go out in a blaze of glory? ... and if we take it a step further... We see 50,000 years later, some new race defeating the reapers being prepared having Liara's time capsule in their possession.

I find it hard to believe this is the ending that was truly intended. I guess the old saying "It ships when its finished" has been replaced with " It ships when its scheduled to cause we need some form of sales regardless of quality"

please please please please... suck it up and release what you intended

[Redbelle]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Wow, how do my one paragraph replies always turn into dissertations? Sigh.

--- And I agree, Vega needed more time to become a fleshed out character. I'd have liked (in a perfect world!) every character to have gotten a two mission mini-arc. Including the ME2 people. It would have been nice if you could bring them all along for one mission, as a squad member, like how Liara came back for a day trip in Lair of the Shadow Broker.

--- Side Point! I liked how Lair of the Shadow Broker handled Liara in ME2. She'd changed so much without Shempard there to rely on, and it really solidified her as someone I liked. In ME1, I never brought her along or really even talked to her. She just bored the hell out of me. After Shadow Broker, I replayed ME1 ALWAYS bringing Liara with me.

Liara evolution as a character in ME2 was wonderful to see. I've never really appreciated that fact though till recently. Her story just drew me along and Liara being the way she was is handled so well that I never thought 'that isn't Liara'.

[Voodoo-j]

bigstig wrote...

Are people still feeling hurt by this? Seriously get a grip. EC has been announced and we don't know what this will bring. It could be epic it could be awful we don't know.

Personally I will be buying the next Bioware product and I will probably pre-order too. Even IF you say that all of Mass Effect 3 is awful( I don't think this in the slightest) the Bioware still have a massive back catalogue of success and I would be willing to overlook a stumble rather than based all future decisions off a single blunder.

I wait patiently for the EC and will quite happily wait a year for it(providing it has hours of content akin to a full blown expansion)

There is far too much hate on these threads, I know I will get flamed and/or trolled for this but I still support Bioware,

Ha .. really??

Oh by the way, weve changed the type of endings we make for our games, oh your not happy with that?
Ok how bout we make an extended ending that explains the type of ending we changed to when producing a game.

Yeah that really takes care of it.

You havn't read up on what's actually ocurring.
Hate, really?
Maybe in responces to ill thought, and ignorant posts.
For the majority most post are either questioning, or creative. Not hateful.

BTW nothing negetive if you like the ending, 2% of those polled do like it, another 6% will be happy with an extended DLC that provides further depth to the ending that already is..  

The issue for the rest of us is the ending and the extended DLC that has already been stated will not meet the what was promised, and thus not resolving the issue of the expectation they had said would be in the game originally that the mojority are upset with.

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 03 juin 2012 - 03:04 .

[3DandBeyond]

bigstig wrote...

Are people still feeling hurt by this? Seriously get a grip. EC has been announced and we don't know what this will bring. It could be epic it could be awful we don't know.

Personally I will be buying the next Bioware product and I will probably pre-order too. Even IF you say that all of Mass Effect 3 is awful( I don't think this in the slightest) the Bioware still have a massive back catalogue of success and I would be willing to overlook a stumble rather than based all future decisions off a single blunder.

I wait patiently for the EC and will quite happily wait a year for it(providing it has hours of content akin to a full blown expansion)

There is far too much hate on these threads, I know I will get flamed and/or trolled for this but I still support Bioware,

Actually posting and telling people to "get a grip" is flaming, so if people are less than kind due to that, please realize you are attempting to invite it.

You said it yourself-we don't know what the EC will bring.  It could be awesome or an abundance of more awfulness.

You do have a right to your opinion but it seems you've not read this thread or understood a lot of what people are saying.  To a person, we are fans.  What do you think that means?  We have loved what Bioware has done and have specifically loved ME.  In fact, most of us have stated that we love 99.99% of ME3, but the ending of any game and especially a game series is what will be remembered and what can make or break that game (series).  It also can be the basis for any replayability.  People play again to have a different character and a different experience and to get a different ending.  Not possible.

The EC was announced and the announcement was in part insulting because it stated 2 things-it said we as fans were too dumb to understand the ending so we needed clarity and it said we as fans are too dumb to understand what is artistic.  And it stated the EC would not provide a new ending but merely explanation for the one that is.

In the opinion of many here, no explanation is necessary nor sufficient.  And last time I looked no EC had been released.  It could be great or it could be horrid, but I guarantee if fans turn away and don't continue to voice any concerns or pay attention, the likelihood of something awesome will diminish.

You also characterize this as a stumble rather than a big blunder, well I don't.  You have to look at what they've done as a whole.  Bluestorm83 pointed out the "buy some DLC" character planted in DAO, there's the From Ashes day 1 DLC which was necessary to the main game and was there just to get everyone to pay more for the game.  There's the requirement to play multiplayer in order to get the shred of a "best" ending for the game and multiplayer is used to get more money.  Actually MP would be way more acceptable and fun for me if I didn't feel it was forced on people, but also impossible for some.  Don't have a broadband connection?  Can't afford a good connection?  Can't afford xbox live gold?  Then you can't see Shepard gasp. Considering that almost everyone agrees that the ending lacks at the very least some strong closure, when that EC is released or when any planned DLC was considered to be released to expand upon the story, again how are those paying customers without broadband or such supposed to get it?  You only have to look at the ME3 galaxy map once you have opened up all available systems to see that DLC was planned to expand the story-there are systems that are not open, such as Omega.

A stumble would be one issue with some minor effects.  This was no minor blunder.  Look at the effect, the shadow it casts over the rest of the games.  What outcomes are offered if you play differently, maybe get fewer war assets?  Not much different.  And then what is the last thing you see in 3 games?  A blue "buy some DLC" screen.  They should have just had the kid point to the choices and when Shepard makes one, have it be DLC.  The EA CEO specifically talks about the use of micro-transactions and the importance of "required" DLC.

They actually started down this road in all their games-ME2 did something similar to Javik's From Ashes with Liara in LOTSB.  It was free for the PS3, but not for the 360.  I don't know about the PC.

Understand this--only with great love can there be such great disappointment.  I've played other games that have been less than satisfying, but because they were just games that I didn't care that much about, I moved on.  Never had much attachment to them for a variety of reasons.  Few have been as immersive and none as story laden as ME, in my opinion.  In short, I didn't care about them.  The depth of the failure of ME3's ending is all the more noticeable because of just how good the rest of the games are.  Greatest games ever topped off by the worst ending ever, but it's mainly because the series set the bar so high.

You really also need to watch some of the "Retake Mass Effect" movement's videos.  I don't belong to their group and consider myself a vocal independent fan, but their videos are interesting and reveal what I've said here.  They have some with testimonials-one asks 3 questions and every person in that video (it's mostly just audio with their Shepard faces overlayed), thanks Bioware, tells Bioware how much they love them and what they've done.  They also describe what may well be the outcome of all this and just how Bioware can "fix" it.  They hope and think the EC may be that chance.  I do too.  I think most do, but healthy scepticism is just that, healthy.

It's wrong to say this is all about hate.  It isn't at all and that is the biggest damage being done to ME fans, the characterization of them.  We've been called whiny, demanding, entitled, haters, complainers, brats and much much more.  But we've always been fans and all we want is the chance to remain so.  The reason most will say the damage has already been done is because to date Bioware has not proven they are listening and really open to what people have been saying.  They are a company and have not done a good job of customer service.  Instead they've insulted their client base.  This added to the fire.  Had they started a true dialogue, things could have been different for many people.  But people have the absolute right to talk with their money.  No company worth anything at all wants unhappy customers to just walk away without saying why, until now.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 03 juin 2012 - 03:10 .

[3DandBeyond]

Voodoo-j wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Are people still feeling hurt by this? Seriously get a grip. EC has been announced and we don't know what this will bring. It could be epic it could be awful we don't know.

Personally I will be buying the next Bioware product and I will probably pre-order too. Even IF you say that all of Mass Effect 3 is awful( I don't think this in the slightest) the Bioware still have a massive back catalogue of success and I would be willing to overlook a stumble rather than based all future decisions off a single blunder.

I wait patiently for the EC and will quite happily wait a year for it(providing it has hours of content akin to a full blown expansion)

There is far too much hate on these threads, I know I will get flamed and/or trolled for this but I still support Bioware,

Ha .. really??

Oh by the way, weve changed the type of endings we make for our games, oh your not happy with that?
Ok how bout we make an extended ending that explains the type of ending we changed to when producing a game.

Yeah that really takes care of it.

You havn't read up on what's actually ocurring.
Hate, really?
Maybe in responces to ill thought, and ignorant posts.
For the majority most post are either questioning, or creative. Not hateful.

BTW nothing negetive if you like the ending, 2% of those polled do like it, another 6% will be happy with an extended DLC that provides further depth to the ending that already is..  

The issue for the rest of us is the ending and the extended DLC that has already been stated will not meet the what was promised, and thus not resolving the issue of the expectation they had said would be in the game originally that the mojority are upset with.

This is exactly it.  Until the EC has been released, we can hope that Bioware changes their stated opinion.  We may change nothing at all.  But it's a certainty that if we just go away, they will go ahead and release clarity for something that should have just been dumped or radically changed. 

I don't need clarity-I understand it perfectly fine as is.  Glow boy controls the reapers.  Shepard is really not Shepard but some spineless stand in.  The choices force Joker to run away in disgust.  And the choices cause the relays to explode in the hopes that the galaxy will die, because the strongest person in it turned out to be the stupidest as well.  And the reapers just plain gave up because if the most advanced organics in this cycle actually "bought" the garbage their daddy was selling, then they aren't as advanced as originally thought and the reapers don't want them to ascend at all.  Shepard's LI secretly sighs in relief at having dodged the bullet of being tied to someone so lame that they'd believe and do what the star kid says.  Shepard's LI is happy because maybe Shepard chose Destroy and the thought of Joker swathed in that jungle morning dew is suddenly very appealing.  And then, there's the damn gasp and Shepard's LI this time says, stay dead.

The thing is I don't want to have it explained, I don't want to understand it better, it doesn't fit in ME.  In fact, none of what is in the ending even fits the other parts of the ending.