23455 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...

Oh one other thing, any one realize that one of starbratz solutions is the complete removal of any true organic, turning every organic into a synthetic, thus fulfilling its role in "saving every organic by destroying every organic".

He's a mirror within a mirror full of self-fulfilling prophecies and full of so much more.

[BlueStorm83]

Holger1405 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- That Future Synthetics MIGHT be created which MIGHT become a threat to organics is not a valid reason to believe the Catalyst: there are Present Synthetics that are CURRENTLY a threat to organics. They're called Reapers. In the future you MIGHT murder my family and MIGHT burn my house down; that does not justify me killing you right now, nor would it make sense for you to kill my family and burn my house right now so it doesn't happen in the future.

I don't belief that the catalyst is right, I only think that it beliefs what it said and that it could be right, despite my beliefs.  

I was on the NYC Subway once.  A man in a gray sweats was having a very loud and impassioned conversation with... Jesus.  Now, I did not see Jesus there.  Clearly he did see Jesus there.  He believed 100% that he was having a conversation, and I BELIEVE that he BELIEVED that.  He's still nuts, and I don't think I'll be taking his advice.  Is there a POSSIBILITY that he's actually having a conversation with Jesus?  Contrary to the information I have, I admit that maybe, JUST MAYBE Jesus actually talks to crazy people.  But my belief trumps his belief.  Because its mine.  I can only act on my beliefs.

[saber00005]

This is my take on the ending of ME3, spoken from the heart.

I've become a great big fan of the Mass Effect series. When I first started the game, I was overwhelmed by how beautiful and how awesome the story line was in all three games. After finishing the 2nd ME game, I was counting the minutes until there would even be an announcement on ME3. When it came out, I felt like a child as I rushed home from work, and played the game. I spent HOURS, and beaten the game in 3 days (pulled a LOT of overnighters). I made sure to get deverything too, so I don't miss a single thing (Which I ended up missing a ton of stuff since I went full Paragon). After roughly 70 hours of game play (including multiply), I was heartbroken when I saw the ending. I actually felt VERY depressed and found myself just staring at my PC screen asking to myself, "WHAT HAPPENED!?!". Right after somewhat "recovering", I have to admit, I spend MONTHS going onto forums, reading articles, and staying VERY CLOSE to ME3's twitter account, seeing what everyone thought, and if they felt the same way I did. I'll be honest, I was ticked, and I felt like I read the ending of Macbeth, Mice and Men, 1984 all the at the same time (which are rather have very depressing endings).

I know this is just a game, and ME3, if any of the staff reads this, you guys did an amazing job! But, I just feel like after spending well over 100+ hours on the series, reverted back many saves to get the outcome that I want for each character, I felt heart broken when I saw the end flash for my love interest (Liara) from all 3 games, all those I served with for all 3 games, and after, just an *overwhelming* sadness knowing that I wouldn't be able to travel the galaxy no more since all the relays were destroyed (including the citadel). It was crushing..

After reading and hearing about Bioware being announced that it's the worst gaming company in the world, I was pretty blown away. Even though ME3's ending wasn't what it should have been, it still doesn't deserve the crap that people have been putting on the company. It's their game, like it or not, and they CHOOSE to create this AMAZING series for us (even though we're greatly upset by the ending). Even though Bioware is receiving the flak from everyone, it just goes to show how successful they made ALL of us, connected with the game. One way or another, it has drawn us to be in the shoes of Shepard, and command your personalized squad mates through hell and back.

The extended cut.
To be 100% honest, I really hope the extended cut would shed some light on what happened. Sorry guys, but I too am a big firm believer of the indoctrination theory myself. However, I was a bit concerned when one of the developers basically saying that they like seeing their fans being so committed to the game. I understand that they want to keep this like an "art form" but they went FAR beyond that, after the 1st Mass effect. This game becomes something SO MUCH MORE than just art.

One of the things, I HOPE, they show is what the heck was the ending about with Shepard taking a painful gasp of air? I TRULY HOPE THEY INDENTIFY THAT SCENE. The same, for clarification on, IF it was real, what happens to all the aliens if they're stuck on earth, and can't go back to their planets. Until they release the extended cut, I guess I'll have to somehow wait patiently until then. I know they said it will just be a cut scene or too, but I hope there's additional game play. Mass effect, I will have to say, is an amazing game, and will CONTINUE being my ALL TIME FAVORITE GAME, regardless of the ending. I've been enjoying multiplayer a little bit, and trying different things in the single player of ALL 3 GAMES.

IF any of you manage to read this post, I hope all of you understand where I’m coming from. Regardless what happens in the end run, I'll be very disappointed and heartbroken all over again, but it won't change my views on Bioware. They created a game that has impacted ALL OF US.

SaBeR*

Modifié par saber00005, 05 juin 2012 - 07:05 .

[Redbelle]

Archonsg wrote...

Oh one other thing, any one realize that one of starbratz solutions is the complete removal of any true organic, turning every organic into a synthetic, thus fulfilling its role in "saving every organic by destroying every organic".

This sounds like the art of comprimise.

Or to put it another way. There is solution A that offends party B. There is solution B that offends party A............ and there is another solution that offends everybody! I'm going with C. Fairs fair.

[BlueStorm83]

heraymo wrote...

wonder if the starchild in the wii-u version will be mario

It's-a me, Deus Ex Machio!

[Redbelle]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- That Future Synthetics MIGHT be created which MIGHT become a threat to organics is not a valid reason to believe the Catalyst: there are Present Synthetics that are CURRENTLY a threat to organics. They're called Reapers. In the future you MIGHT murder my family and MIGHT burn my house down; that does not justify me killing you right now, nor would it make sense for you to kill my family and burn my house right now so it doesn't happen in the future.

I don't belief that the catalyst is right, I only think that it beliefs what it said and that it could be right, despite my beliefs.  

I was on the NYC Subway once.  A man in a gray sweats was having a very loud and impassioned conversation with... Jesus.  Now, I did not see Jesus there.  Clearly he did see Jesus there.  He believed 100% that he was having a conversation, and I BELIEVE that he BELIEVED that.  He's still nuts, and I don't think I'll be taking his advice.  Is there a POSSIBILITY that he's actually having a conversation with Jesus?  Contrary to the information I have, I admit that maybe, JUST MAYBE Jesus actually talks to crazy people.  But my belief trumps his belief.  Because its mine.  I can only act on my beliefs.

Look up the story of the rational dentist sometime. It's a philosopical question wrapped up in a story.

And pray you never meet one cause a really rational dentist will not believe your screams of agony warrent painkiller.

[Holger1405]

akenn312 wrote...

Ugg now my head hurts.

Rofl OK, how old are you?

See, I like to debate my viewpoints, but only with people who show a little more respect for a different opinion.

And for your "insulted intelligence"
Try to think about this:

Holger1405 wrote...
If Bioware show us such thing, it would render destroy and control completely worthless, even worse, it would  render the complete Mass effect storyline worthless because it would make clear that Shepard couldn't change anything and that the Reapers are in fact a good soulution. 

 maybe you will understand.. or maybe not.  

[Holger1405]

BlueStorm83 wrote...
  Because its mine.  I can only act on my beliefs.

True, and so do I.
Sorry BlueStorm, but I don't get your point here? 

[heraymo]

are you still listening i really doubt it

[Void Of Humanity]

Hey Saber00005,

Sums up what we all feel dude, just want some answers, closure & respect

[3DandBeyond]

Holger1405 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...
  Because its mine.  I can only act on my beliefs.

True, and so do I.
Sorry BlueStorm, but I don't get your point here? 

The point is, it doesn't matter what the guy talking to Jesus believes, it's what s/he Bluestorm believes.  If they Jesus guy says, "Jesus told me you need to go shoot yourself," Bluestorm won't do that, because s/he acts from his/her own point of view. 

It's the same with the star kid.  He could absolutely believe or know for a fact that he is doing something good, but it doesn't matter.  Shepard doesn't know that and can only form a conclusion based upon what s/he knows not what the evil kid says.

Basically, the kid is saying, "hey buddy, trust me. I want to help you."  All the while he's killing people and looks and acts very much like someone with a warped idea of what "help" means.

[BlueStorm83]

Holger1405 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...
  Because its mine.  I can only act on my beliefs.

True, and so do I.
Sorry BlueStorm, but I don't get your point here? 

My point is that as soon as I believe that this Starboy is ill informed, false, lying, evil, and stupid, then nothing he believes is valid.

[3DandBeyond]

Void Of Humanity wrote...

Hey Saber00005,

Sums up what we all feel dude, just want some answers, closure & respect

I agree, but still what seems to be misunderstood by a lot of people is that even those of us that hate the ending have loved the games and Bioware.  We merely want them to prove to us, that we can still call ourselves fans and that we still want to give them our money.  The ball is in their court.

[akenn312]

Holger1405 wrote...

akenn312 wrote...

Ugg now my head hurts.

Rofl OK, how old are you?

See, I like to debate my viewpoints, but only with people who show a little more respect for a different opinion.

And for your "insulted intelligence"
Try to think about this:

Holger1405 wrote...
If Bioware show us such thing, it would render destroy and control completely worthless, even worse, it would  render the complete Mass effect storyline worthless because it would make clear that Shepard couldn't change anything and that the Reapers are in fact a good soulution. 

 maybe you will understand.. or maybe not.  

Yep just like I thought, ignore the important question that asks "Where in the story has Bioware proved the Ai's and Vi's and Geth are potentially worse than the Reapers?" Insert a childish insult or two or trying to talk above everyone, then again asserting a weird illogical point that no one thinks is valid. Then backing out of the discussion.

Again I see a pattern here. If they can't answer then all of a sudden we are being disrespectful or mean then they focus on flaming or some other topic that derails the thread.

Yeah right.

Please join the discussion when you can not avoid, but answer how this story proves that little synthetics are worse than the Reapers or how a Cain magically can take down a Reaper with one shot, and how it's okay squad-mates disappear to the Normandy?

I'll answer your question easily as the story stands as is with this forced synthetic conflict, the Reapers purpose is rendered invalid and basically dumb and so is Shepard going along with the three choices. He has more proof than not that synthetics are not the main issue with organic survival. He has definate proof that the Reapers are the only problem with galactic survival with thier existance.

There is no proof that synthetics are the downfall of organics. Nothing in the story shows this. Only the Reapers are the downfall of entire organic races Why? because there is history and visual proof. So showing the potential conflict or showing a past history that synthetics came close to destroying all organics would at least sorta validate that the current peace between the organics and synthetics would not last and make the three choices somewhat valid.

You can't say you believe that synthetics are the downfall of organics but then say if they show it to me that makes the three choices invalid. If you believe in the Catalyst and choose you take his word as fact. Just more on blind faith as it stands now.

Modifié par akenn312, 05 juin 2012 - 08:21 .

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...
  Because its mine.  I can only act on my beliefs.

True, and so do I.
Sorry BlueStorm, but I don't get your point here? 

My point is that as soon as I believe that this Starboy is ill informed, false, lying, evil, and stupid, then nothing he believes is valid.

Or as Shepard says to Garrus when chasing Dr. Heart, "you can't predict how people will act, Garrus.  Only how you'll respond."

[Redbelle]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Void Of Humanity wrote...

Hey Saber00005,

Sums up what we all feel dude, just want some answers, closure & respect

I agree, but still what seems to be misunderstood by a lot of people is that even those of us that hate the ending have loved the games and Bioware.  We merely want them to prove to us, that we can still call ourselves fans and that we still want to give them our money.  The ball is in their court.

And here is one persons take on what they did with that ball.



For my money I'm waiting for the DLC.

[3DandBeyond]

akenn312 wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

akenn312 wrote...

Ugg now my head hurts.

Rofl OK, how old are you?

See, I like to debate my viewpoints, but only with people who show a little more respect for a different opinion.

And for your "insulted intelligence"
Try to think about this:

Holger1405 wrote...
If Bioware show us such thing, it would render destroy and control completely worthless, even worse, it would  render the complete Mass effect storyline worthless because it would make clear that Shepard couldn't change anything and that the Reapers are in fact a good soulution. 

 maybe you will understand.. or maybe not.  

Yep just like I thought, ignore the important question that asks "Where in the story has Bioware proved the Ai's and Vi's and Geth are potentially worse than the Reapers?" Insert a childish insult or two or trying to talk above everyone, then again asserting again a weird illogical point that no one thinks is valid. Then backing out of the discussion.

Again I see a pattern here. If they can't answer then all of a sudden we are being disrespectful or mean then they focus on flaming or some other topic that derails the thread.

Yeah right.

Please join the discussion when you can not avoid, but answer how this story proves that little synthetics are worse than the Reapers or how a Cain magically can take down a Reaper with one shot, and how it's okay squad-mates disappear to the Normandy?

I'll answer your question easily as the story stands as is with this forced synthetic conflict, the Reapers purpose is rendered invalid and basically dumb and so is Shepard going along with the three choices. He has more proof than not that synthetics are not the main issue with organic survival. He has definate proof that the Reapers are the only problem with galactic survival with thier existance.

There is no proof that synthetics are the downfall of organics. Nothing in the story shows this. Only the Reapers are the downfall of entire organic races Why? because there is history and visual proof. So showing the potential conflict or showing a past history that synthetics came close to destroying all organics would at least sorta validate that the current peace between the organics and synthetics would not last and make the three choices somewhat valid.

You can't say you believe that synthetics are the downfall of organics but then say if they show it to me that makes the three choices invalid. If you believe in the Catalyst and choose you take his word as fact. Just more on blind faith as it stands now.

I agree. 

The point being that Shepard does not know for a fact that synthetics will rise up and has basically disproven it, but Shepard does know reapers will kill people.  Which is the bad guy here?

Why should Shepard care what may have happened in the past or what might happen in
the future with synthetics?  In the here and now, Shepard sees real bad things happening-reapers killing people, but Shepard is supposed to think that makes sense and then believe it's being done for some "good" reason, so you go along with what the kid doing the killing says.

The game definitely needs to prove that the danger of synthetics is something Shepard sees as real.  Shepard in fact says the opposite to the reaper on Rannoch.  Shepard sees the exact opposite all through the games or Shepard takes care of some minor glitches-kind of like having a problem with my toaster.  My toaster may burn toast at some point, but that doesn't make all toasters bad.

But, Shepard is supposed to see synthetics as some big bad threat and then ignore the kid as the real threat?  Uh, ok I just lost a lot more brain cells than I can afford to lose.  Since, we are expected to trust the kid who has been lying and has been killing, we are not supposed to trust synthetics whose biggest sin in Shepard's lifetime was self-preservation? 

The way I see what the game is saying is this:

Synthetics might do something bad, so organics must die.  Just in case.  This means you can't trust Synthetics.

The reapers and the kid are doing something bad-they are killing people.  So you don't get to just kill all of them, including the kid.  You need to make 1 of 3 choices that might do what the kid says.  You don't know if it will, but for some reason you must die (mostly) as well.  Apparently, you may do something bad in the future, I guess.  So, you do trust the kid.

Don't trust synthetics.  Do trust the kid.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 05 juin 2012 - 08:13 .

[Holger1405]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- That Future Synthetics MIGHT be created which MIGHT become a threat to organics is not a valid reason to believe the Catalyst: there are Present Synthetics that are CURRENTLY a threat to organics. They're called Reapers. In the future you MIGHT murder my family and MIGHT burn my house down; that does not justify me killing you right now, nor would it make sense for you to kill my family and burn my house right now so it doesn't happen in the future.

I don't belief that the catalyst is right, I only think that it beliefs what it said and that it could be right, despite my beliefs.  

But you are risking the lives of everyone in the galaxy on the belief the kid might be right.  Wow.  I put my faith and my belief in better things.  But, believing that he might be right is way too big a leap of faith to make.

I was referring to the possibility that the Catalyst is right about synthetics annihilate organics in the future. That has nothing to do with my trust in him regarding the three choices. 

3DandBeyond wrote...
And please yes I know I've believed others, but I've always been able to minimize the bad thing that might happen if my belief in what they say is wrong.  And others have at least offered some proof.  And the fact that the floor rose to the top of the Citadel is proof of nothing.  Nothing in the game says the kid made it move.  And the creation of the Crucible proves nothing.  We don't know where the original idea of it came from. 

And what the Protheans believed proves nothing.  Everything we thought we knew about them was wrong and even Javik (if you bought the DLC) knows next to nothing and the Protheans were not wonderful and nice people.  They were totalitarian and despotic in their practices so my opinion of them is colored.  And just because Javik is apparently honorable, does not mean the Protheans all were.  Often there's a fine delineation between the honor and dignity of the military and that of the leadership and society at large.

If you are not going to accept what the game is telling you than I can't change that.   

3DandBeyond wrote...
The star kid might believe what he says, but what he says is often proven wrong in the game, so his logic is at best flawed, so anything based upon that logic is flawed as well.

The end choices aren't based on the Catalyst logic.

3DandBeyond wrote...
The star kid is also lying.  I've given proof.  Anything he says coud also be a lie and so he cannot be trusted.  I just want to know one thing that he says that is provable outside of what he says.  Concrete, touchable proof.  There is none.  I couldn't risk it and if just one person, one Shepard thinks the risk is unacceptable, the game has failed.  It's as logical a conclusion as any other and moreso based upon what we have been shown.

Sorry but you didn't proved that the Catalyst is lying. Shepard knows that the Reapers did kill People outside their "harvesting." 

[3DandBeyond]

Holger1405 wrote...

I was referring to the possibility that the Catalyst is right about synthetics annihilate organics in the future. That has nothing to do with my trust in him regarding the three choices. 

Holger, all of it is based upon trusting him.  He is the one standing there pointing out the 3 choices.  He is the one describing them.  I cannot believe any rational person would trust him in anything he says.  He is not credible.  And why should Shepard even care about what synthetics might do in the future.  Right now Shepard does know the kid and the reapers are killing people.

Holger1405 wrote...
If you are not going to accept what the game is telling you than I can't change that.   

The game does not provide one shred of proof that what this kid says is true and in fact he has lied and you have even stated he could be lying.  So, why would you trust someone who might be lying when it could get everyone killed?


The star kid might believe what he says, but what he says is often proven wrong in the game, so his logic is at best flawed, so anything based upon that logic is flawed as well.

Holger1405 wrote...
The end choices aren't based on the Catalyst logic.

Provide me the proof that someone else came up with the end choices.  You have no way of knowing where those choices came from, just as you don't know where the Crucible plans came from.  The kid telling you anything is not proof. 

3DandBeyond wrote...
The star kid is also lying.  I've given proof.  Anything he says coud also be a lie and so he cannot be trusted.  I just want to know one thing that he says that is provable outside of what he says.  Concrete, touchable proof.  There is none.  I couldn't risk it and if just one person, one Shepard thinks the risk is unacceptable, the game has failed.  It's as logical a conclusion as any other and moreso based upon what we have been shown.

Holger1405 wrote...
Sorry but you didn't proved that the Catalyst is lying. Shepard knows that the Reapers did kill People outside their "harvesting." 

I did prove it.  And that's what I am saying Shepard knows they are killing people, but the star kid says they aren't. 

Shepard clearly says to the kid that he is wiping out organic life and the star kid says no he isn't.  He says he is ascending advanced organic life.  Well, please replay the beginning of the game.  The spider reaper seems to kill a whole bunch of people by shooting at their shuttles.  This includes the kid whose image the star kid uses.  Reapers also vaporize people and in fact, without a high enough EMS, Shepard can lose friends who get killed by reapers.  That means the kid was lying when he said they were not killing people.  At the very least he is trying to mislead Shepard, and since Shepard knows this is not true, Shepard would not believe the kid.

Apparently this is all moot, because if someone lies to you, kills people, and is obviously evil from your point of view because they are turning people into goo, then you would trust them and do what they say, no matter what.  Sorry, I generally think people that want to hurt me and have always tried to hurt me and that have killed lots of people, just tend to want to keep killing people and probably will lie to me to get me to do what they want.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 05 juin 2012 - 08:40 .

[3DandBeyond]

Redbelle wrote...

And here is one persons take on what they did with that ball.



For my money I'm waiting for the DLC.

This is one of my favorite videos on this whole debacle.

[MSandt]

[quote]LiarasShield wrote...

then you and I mustve of played two drasticlly different games since the catalyst said that he created the reapers that their our his solution why after destroying organic like for thousand or millions of years automaticlly turn all sweet heart on us and since I can still see his reapers destroying my forces in the back ground he used circular logic to back up his claim about how his synthetics kill organics so they won't make synthetics that will kill them this is broken circular logic

He claims that he is trying to protect us from synthetics but he uses the reaper code to control the geth to have them kill us

The quarians attacked the geth first and the geth only defended themselves and fought back but allowed the quarians to leave rannoch and be able to survive they didn't want to fight them anymore until the reaper code came in from the reapers hence why after you set the geth free that they want to work by your side or help the quarians rebuild their world[/quote]

I have already addressed these points. In short:
-At no point have I implied that the Catalyst was doing the right thing
-The Catalyst itself acknowledged that he may have been wrong
-The Quarian/Geth conflict is a poor argument against the Catalyst's beliefs: even such a "recent" (probably underdeveloped from the Catalyst's point of view) synthetic "race" as the Geth had already evolved to a point where they were a considerable threat. It doesn't matter who started it.

[quote]

We don't really defeat the reapers because 2 out of the 3 endings they still live and we give into their creator[/quote]

The Reapers cease to exist as an individual race in two endings and in the control ending you could just imagine flying them into suns.

[quote]Who by all means is most likely decieveing shepard and leading him or her to ruin and we don't beat the reapers under our own steam[/quote]

There is no evidence to support the claim that the Catalyst is lying. He could be lying but since we actually see the Reapers leaving/destroyed, the logical conclusion is that the Catalyst was telling the truth. No need to start filling this topic with liberal fanfic interpretations.

[quote]Control can not happen because it has never been possiable before and anyone who ever thought they could control the reapers ended up be controlled themselves plus shepard body is destroyed so he or she can't control them anyway if he or she is dead[/quote]

I don't think Shepard's body has much relevance at that point.

And yes, of course it's possible that she fails to control the Reapers - eventually. This is something I thought of as I was contemplating between the three options. But how is this a bad thing from a design point of view? If you don't want to risk it, just destroy the Reapers - or fuse them. There are no clear-cut answers at that point, which is a good thing. The three options are significantly different.

[quote]Once synthesis bad options destroys the purpose of all three games by destroying individuality by forcing everyone to be the same and forcing them to be half machine or half organic against their will destroys any true sense of evolution or freedom or bring different races together to accomplish a goal which is to defeat the reapers[/quote]

I agree, which is why I didn't go for that option. But some did. Once again, you can instead go for the control or the destruction options.

[quote]Destroy another terrible options ends up killing the geth and the quarians which you spent several hours to save or to bring peace between them[/quote]

In my game the Geth were already gone and I don't miss them: they were just machines and keeping them alive just wasn't worth the risk. Yes, each option carries a cost and a risk. There are no clear victories here, only bittersweet endings. This is a good thing. No happyhappyjoyjoy endings where everyone wins and lives happily ever after.

[quote]Reasons why shepard couldn't have survived is

Shepard from project lazarus has synthetics parts in his or her body now without these said parts it would most likely hurt shepards chance of being alive that and taking the explosion from the red cantainer to the face and if the crucible explodes or gets destroyed during atmospheric reentry into earth it would not be enough for shepard to live[/quote]

In my game Shepard survived. If a person breathes, that person is alive.

The extent of Shepard's synthetic nature was never specified. Obviously since she survived (in the destruction ending), she could survive without the synthetic parts.

[quote]Vigil from Ilos also said that the reapers turn off the mass relays so that the reapers could have a easyer time harvesting them so if they explode it would only makes the reapers job more simple because now our forces are pretty much trapt with no way to go and the reapers could easily harvest us or they die in outerspace by runing out of resources

In 2 endings the reapers live and will most likely commit genocide again on us 50 thousand years from now or kill us again when they get the chance nothing so far has proved otherwise that they won't[/quote]

The Reapers need the relays to travel. There's a big difference between turning off mass relays and destroying them. The Reapers cannot survive without the network.

Again, if you don't wish to risk it, destroy the Reapers.

[quote]Any sense of accomplishment or anything you done for all three games get flushed down the toliet with a you lose no matter what scenario[/quote]

Of all the arguments I've seen from haters this is one of the weirdest. How can anyone feel like they've lost when they are given a chance to do exactly what they set out to do?

[quote]We had a victory ending in me1 we also had one in me2[/quote]

So? I don't remember anything about ME1's ending after the last boss fight. It was probably too generic.

[quote]And I gather all my war assets unite the entire galaxy including the geth and quarians and everybody else I should have the option to denie the false assertions of the catalysts and depending on my ems actually beat them

LIKE I CAME TO DO[/quote]

You gathered all those assets so that you could make your way to the Catalyst and wield the Crucible with the intention of destroying a galactic threat which is exactly what the game allows you to do.

[Tuny]

Here, my favourite moments:

Leaving Earth sequence
Setting foot on Mars
Every single conversation with Illusive Man
Vega ramming the shuttle
Walking around in Presidium
Full-scale war at Menae
Exploring City of the Ancients
Mordin's sacrifice
Kai Leng introduction
Conversations with Javik
Meeting Jack and her gang
Dropping from FTL near Rannoch
Geth consensus from within
Discovering Prothean beacon
Fall of Thessia
EDI's mental evolution
"Shepard, you're in my chair."
Great fleet coming through Sol relay
Really hard battle for Thanix missiles launchers
Limping to the Citadel beam
Absence of final boss
Spreading destruction of Mass Relays

About the ending: by no means it's perfect, but I enjoyed it. It was so emotionally gripping that I easily forgave whatever flaws it might have. And after giving some thought about consequences for in-game universe I grew to like it even more. But some things do need clarification, so I eagerly await Extended Cut

Modifié par Tuny, 05 juin 2012 - 08:42 .

[MSandt]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I'd like to point out that there CAN'T be a non bittersweet ending to Mass Effect 3. Even if Shepard and all friends at the end live, here's what we've all lost:

Thane
Legion
Mordin or Wrex
Anderson
Navigator Pressley
Ashley or Kaiden
Tali's father
Liara's mother
At least the Admiral's crew from the Quarrian fleet.
Kal'Reegar
Lt. Victus and his team
The Illusive Man (say what you want, I admired his dedication and determination, even if he did go nuts)
Nihilus
Vigil (powered down after we left, couldn't be re-awakened)
Javik's entire race
Conrad's Wife probably left him
Billions of Humans
Billions of Asari
Billions of Turians
Millions (weren't that many to start with) of Krogan
The greatest cities on Earth
The greatest cities on Palaven
The greatest cities on Thessia
The Krogan Mechanic
The kid that we all hate by now from the ME3 opening
Probably very many on the Citadel, if not all of them
Councillor Udina (Again, respected his determination, if he was an underhanded slug)
Some of Jack's students from before I got there

And that's just what I thought of. Even if Shepard lives at the end, even if all the crew alive at the beginning of the mission live, even if we can destroy the reapers without losing a SINGLE SHIP from the fleet, the price is DAMN high for victory. Bittersweet was a forgone conclusion. Confusing as all **** and frustrating as it robs you of control and personality is simply unnecessary and nonsensical.

And most of those have nothing to do with the ending itself as those events had taken place long before you met the glowboy. What did you expect, a chance to go back in time and save everyone? The Second World War claimed over 50 million lives and left most European cities in ruins. The German surrender was still a victory - and a big one, because the alternative would have meant a literal end of most Eastern European nations.

[3DandBeyond]

MSandt wrote...


I have already addressed these points. In short:
-At no point have I implied that the Catalyst was doing the right thing
-The Catalyst itself acknowledged that he may have been wrong
-The Quarian/Geth conflict is a poor argument against the Catalyst's beliefs: even such a "recent" (probably underdeveloped from the Catalyst's point of view) synthetic "race" as the Geth had already evolved to a point where they were a considerable threat. It doesn't matter who started it.

Of course it matters who started it and since Shepard is able to overcome this huge threat, it is also avoided and does not destroy organics.

But it always matters who does things and why.  And the kid was the one that intervened and set the Geths on attack mode after the Geth had retreated and were not threatening the Quarians.  The Geth had not threatened the Quarians.  And they are the only real huge example that Shepard has to say there is any synthetic/organic blip.  In fact, Shepard specifically says to the dying reaper that synthetics and organics do not always have to fight.

Again, it is about what Shepard sees and has done and not about the Catalyst's views.  As Shepard I'd want to offer resistance to what the Catalyst says, but in the end if he believes what he believes and keeps spouting stupidity, then what he believes don't matter to Shepard.  The kid is an idiot and evil.  And he can't be trusted. 

Shepard has said so much throughout the game about all this stuff.  Shepard said you don't condemn a race to extinction over what might happen.  So, now it makes sense that Shepard thinks that people (the geth) that s/he helped become people might become a threat, so organic people must die, just in case.  How does that make sense at all?

[3DandBeyond]

MSandt wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I'd like to point out that there CAN'T be a non bittersweet ending to Mass Effect 3. Even if Shepard and all friends at the end live, here's what we've all lost:

Thane
Legion
Mordin or Wrex
Anderson
Navigator Pressley
Ashley or Kaiden
Tali's father
Liara's mother
At least the Admiral's crew from the Quarrian fleet.
Kal'Reegar
Lt. Victus and his team
The Illusive Man (say what you want, I admired his dedication and determination, even if he did go nuts)
Nihilus
Vigil (powered down after we left, couldn't be re-awakened)
Javik's entire race
Conrad's Wife probably left him
Billions of Humans
Billions of Asari
Billions of Turians
Millions (weren't that many to start with) of Krogan
The greatest cities on Earth
The greatest cities on Palaven
The greatest cities on Thessia
The Krogan Mechanic
The kid that we all hate by now from the ME3 opening
Probably very many on the Citadel, if not all of them
Councillor Udina (Again, respected his determination, if he was an underhanded slug)
Some of Jack's students from before I got there

And that's just what I thought of. Even if Shepard lives at the end, even if all the crew alive at the beginning of the mission live, even if we can destroy the reapers without losing a SINGLE SHIP from the fleet, the price is DAMN high for victory. Bittersweet was a forgone conclusion. Confusing as all **** and frustrating as it robs you of control and personality is simply unnecessary and nonsensical.

And most of those have nothing to do with the ending itself as those events had taken place long before you met the glowboy. What did you expect, a chance to go back in time and save everyone? The Second World War claimed over 50 million lives and left most European cities in ruins. The German surrender was still a victory - and a big one, because the alternative would have meant a literal end of most Eastern European nations.

What Bluestorm83 is pointing out (though Bluestorm can speak up about it of course) is that people often say the only legitimate ending is a sad, sacrificial or bittersweet one.  But the point is considering all that has happened and the state the galaxy has been left in, even a happy ending is bittersweet.  But most other endings are in my opinion, just bitter.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 05 juin 2012 - 09:08 .