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[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

No you putting your faith that because of your actions you showed the kid as you call him that he was wrong.

The kid never indicates you showed him he was wrong.  He says the exact opposite.  If he thought he had been wrong, he wouldn't have continued to state stupid logic.  And when Shepard says people would like to keep their current form, he wouldn't tell Shepard they can't.  The kid definitely does not believe what he's been doing or what he's been thinking has been wrong.  He still wants to make people goo.

And it isn't "the kid as I call him", it's the kid as he chooses to present himself to Shepard.  He is certainly not a kid, something I have repeatedly said.  And I don't believe if he had shown himself in another form that people would be so happy that he is giving Shepard wonderful choices.

If the "kid" looked like TIM or a blob of slimy gunk or a Volus or Sovereign or Harbiner or a husk or Banshee or many other things other than a kid, I don't think there'd be a discussion.  Everyone would want him dead and they'd wonder where they could find a bunch of Cains.  They'd be shouting for Hackett to destroy the Citadel now, or as Archonsg put it, they'd be yelling for EDI and the Geth to get hacking.  Instead, he looks all innocent and non-threatening and suddenly people think, "hey maybe the kid thinks he's trying to do good things.  Maybe now he really loves people or likes Shepard," because leaving Shepard half dead was just a love tap.

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

So if given three ways to win you would rather lose.

Shepard has no idea that any of the choices will do anything good.  In fact, Shepard is told that picking one will do something Shepard knows if very bad-the destruction of the mass relays.  Shepard's knowledge of such an event is the total destruction of a star system.  So, what Shepard has been told is make a choice, destroy all mass relays, including the Citadel that is parked right next to Earth.  Shepard never asks whether the relay explosions will destroy star systems, so all Shepard knows is that the one Shepard destroyed did.  So, making any choice will destroy the galaxy.  That is a certain loss based upon what Shepard knows, where's the win there?

Counter that with the fact that some conventional fights have destroyed reapers.  Geth armies could be sent inside reapers-maybe they could try to insert viruses, hack systems, and so on-or just destroy them from the inside.  Quarians can't be harvested-they may be in some ways an unknown quantity for the reapers.  No one has ever looked into why they can't be harvested.  Why not try taking some Quarian blood and throwing it into the organic goo mix the reapers have in vats?  This might work on one or two reapers and it might poison them.

[Goneaviking]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

No you putting your faith that because of your actions you showed the kid as you call him that he was wrong.

The kid never indicates you showed him he was wrong.  He says the exact opposite.  If he thought he had been wrong, he wouldn't have continued to state stupid logic.  And when Shepard says people would like to keep their current form, he wouldn't tell Shepard they can't.  The kid definitely does not believe what he's been doing or what he's been thinking has been wrong.  He still wants to make people goo.

And it isn't "the kid as I call him", it's the kid as he chooses to present himself to Shepard.  He is certainly not a kid, something I have repeatedly said.  And I don't believe if he had shown himself in another form that people would be so happy that he is giving Shepard wonderful choices.

If the "kid" looked like TIM or a blob of slimy gunk or a Volus or Sovereign or Harbiner or a husk or Banshee or many other things other than a kid, I don't think there'd be a discussion.  Everyone would want him dead and they'd wonder where they could find a bunch of Cains.  They'd be shouting for Hackett to destroy the Citadel now, or as Archonsg put it, they'd be yelling for EDI and the Geth to get hacking.  Instead, he looks all innocent and non-threatening and suddenly people think, "hey maybe the kid thinks he's trying to do good things.  Maybe now he really loves people or likes Shepard," because leaving Shepard half dead was just a love tap.

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

Which does not equate to "I was wrong to commit genocide on a galactic scale." 

At most the entity concedes that its strategy has become obsolete with Shepard reaching this point.

[Holger1405]

Archonsg wrote...

@Holger1405
I see your point.
It does give that little leeway for someone to give the Catalyst the benefit of the doubt.
Now don't get me wrong, that whole sequence from the time you get plucked up on that platform to the end is more bizarre then what came before, and if you see it from my perspective from a "sustainable" resource point of view you would see why the catalyst did what it did.

It might be simply that the Catalyst wants to preserve its own true reaper units, actual reapers which needs a lot of biomass material it seems to recreate one and this time round because of the united galaxy's effort the reapers are for the first time given a real fight, and real looses of its own units as opposed to thralls such as Cannibals, Husks and such.

Hence it brings the one person alive at the time up to see if it can find a way to tilt the battle its way.

Now, I will admit that this is as much a stretch to believe as much as the Catalyst reason of being, but that's the point.

The Catalyst should not have even existed.
Take it out, and EVERY TIME someone did so, (any search of youtube can attest to this) the end result is a much more powerful, much more a true "sacrifice" ending from Shepard's part then if the Catalyst is present and in existence. And it actually makes sense. Minus the Joker running off with your LI thing of course.


ps: I still think that the starbrat is a murdering psychopathic AI and not to be trusted.

pps: Why didn's Shepard go "wait ...we have a way to take control of the Reapers? EDI! GETH! You getting this? TIME for you guys to do a mother of all hack jobs!"

And I understand your point of view. Still, I see potential in the ending. It's bad executed now, but with the DLC... well, we will see. 

[Thanatos144]

Goneaviking wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

No you putting your faith that because of your actions you showed the kid as you call him that he was wrong.

The kid never indicates you showed him he was wrong.  He says the exact opposite.  If he thought he had been wrong, he wouldn't have continued to state stupid logic.  And when Shepard says people would like to keep their current form, he wouldn't tell Shepard they can't.  The kid definitely does not believe what he's been doing or what he's been thinking has been wrong.  He still wants to make people goo.

And it isn't "the kid as I call him", it's the kid as he chooses to present himself to Shepard.  He is certainly not a kid, something I have repeatedly said.  And I don't believe if he had shown himself in another form that people would be so happy that he is giving Shepard wonderful choices.

If the "kid" looked like TIM or a blob of slimy gunk or a Volus or Sovereign or Harbiner or a husk or Banshee or many other things other than a kid, I don't think there'd be a discussion.  Everyone would want him dead and they'd wonder where they could find a bunch of Cains.  They'd be shouting for Hackett to destroy the Citadel now, or as Archonsg put it, they'd be yelling for EDI and the Geth to get hacking.  Instead, he looks all innocent and non-threatening and suddenly people think, "hey maybe the kid thinks he's trying to do good things.  Maybe now he really loves people or likes Shepard," because leaving Shepard half dead was just a love tap.

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

Which does not equate to "I was wrong to commit genocide on a galactic scale." 

At most the entity concedes that its strategy has become obsolete with Shepard reaching this point.

No instead he said he couldnt keep doing what he was doing....THAT was him admiting he was wrong.

[LiarasShield]

Thanatos is just insane all our forces are trapt in a nearly destroyed solar system because our main hero or heroin just gave into their creator the being who has used the reapers to pretty much destroy earth and the galaxy

And it doesn't matter if the reapers live or not we still would've had a better chance having our forces fight them till thee end instead of bowing to the enemies leader where they can live to kill us all in a trapt solar system or for us to die slowly

Thanatos you are insane beyond insane lunatic would be even further on the list

Modifié par LiarasShield, 06 juin 2012 - 02:32 .

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

The catalyst never says Shepard showed him he was wrong. He never said he couldn't keep doing what he's doing at all.  In fact, the catalyst is still doing what he's been doing while they are talking.  People are still being killed in the background.

He says his solution won't work any more and he needs to find a new solution.

He never says his goal has changed or that he was proven wrong in wanting to achieve that goal.  He still thinks synthetics will always destroy organics.  He still thinks organics must be ascended and turned into goo.  He only says he can't continue to do it the way he's been doing it.  He tells Shepard organics must be ascended, so he hasn't changed his mind at all.

You really need to replay the ending again (you don't have to play the whole game to get there, they have things called saved games that work well-oh and youtube), because he never said what you think he said.

All the kid admits is the way he's been doing things won't work any more-he needs to find another way to do what he wants to do.

Harbinger said this too.  It seems that whenever they are faced with Shepard, who seems to find a weakness in the way they do things, they need to change to be able to keep accomplishing their goals.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 06 juin 2012 - 02:39 .

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

The catalyst never says Shepard showed him he was wrong. He never said he couldn't keep doing what he's doing at all.  In fact, the catalyst is still doing what he's been doing while they are talking.  People are still being killed in the background.

He says his solution won't work any more and he needs to find a new solution.

He never says his goal has changed or that he was proven wrong in wanting to achieve that goal.  He still thinks synthetics will always destroy organics.  He still thinks organics must be ascended and turned into goo.  He only says he can't continue to do it the way he's been doing it.  He tells Shepard organics must be ascended, so he hasn't changed his mind at all.

You really need to replay the ending again (you don't have to play the whole game to get there, they have things called saved games that work well-oh and youtube), because he never said what you think he said.

Are you purpously being Obtuse ? Or do you seriously not know what happened at the end?

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos is just insane all our forces are trapt in a nearly destroyed solar system because our main hero or heroin just gave into their creator the being who has used the reapers to pretty much destroy earth and the galaxy

And it doesn't matter if the reapers live or not we still would've had a better chance having our forces fight them till thee end instead of bowing to the enemies leader where they can live to kill us all in a trapt solar system or for us to die slowly

Thanatos you are insane beyond insane lunatic would be even further on the list

What the hell does that matter in this story? Shepard beats the reapers THATS the story not what happens after.

[LiarasShield]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

The catalyst never says Shepard showed him he was wrong. He never said he couldn't keep doing what he's doing at all.  In fact, the catalyst is still doing what he's been doing while they are talking.  People are still being killed in the background.

He says his solution won't work any more and he needs to find a new solution.

He never says his goal has changed or that he was proven wrong in wanting to achieve that goal.  He still thinks synthetics will always destroy organics.  He still thinks organics must be ascended and turned into goo.  He only says he can't continue to do it the way he's been doing it.  He tells Shepard organics must be ascended, so he hasn't changed his mind at all.

You really need to replay the ending again (you don't have to play the whole game to get there, they have things called saved games that work well-oh and youtube), because he never said what you think he said.

Are you purpously being Obtuse ? Or do you seriously not know what happened at the end?

You have proven ignorant of the world around and even this game were done my major long post from last page already explains how nothing you have said has either a made any sense or be just illogical from what you are saying

[Holger1405]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  Okay, Holger, I think I get what you're saying. From what I can surmise you're saying that, in the current universe where we have no option other than to trust the catalyst, you can at least reason that the options, uncolored by assumption and in the light of having NO option to deny them, can be rationalized and, after they play out, accepted to have done what they before claimed to be.

---  I myself chose Controll, reluctantly, witha  bad taste in my mouth, because even though I assumed it would fail, I felt like it was at least the opportunity where I violate the least free, sentient beings.

---  That said, if we HAD the option to just kill the Catalyst because he's basically the heart of the enemy, we would all have just killed him.

I would love to pull the plug on him! (if I had this option.) But would that, or rejecting the "new solutions," accomplish anything? The Reaper think on their own, they are obvious "programmed" to execute the cycle every 50000 years.

So probably not.

The important thing, the only thing that matters, the only reason why Shepard is there, is to stop the cycle.
That is Shepard's goal, not to seek revenge, or justice.

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

The catalyst never says Shepard showed him he was wrong. He never said he couldn't keep doing what he's doing at all.  In fact, the catalyst is still doing what he's been doing while they are talking.  People are still being killed in the background.

He says his solution won't work any more and he needs to find a new solution.

He never says his goal has changed or that he was proven wrong in wanting to achieve that goal.  He still thinks synthetics will always destroy organics.  He still thinks organics must be ascended and turned into goo.  He only says he can't continue to do it the way he's been doing it.  He tells Shepard organics must be ascended, so he hasn't changed his mind at all.

You really need to replay the ending again (you don't have to play the whole game to get there, they have things called saved games that work well-oh and youtube), because he never said what you think he said.

Are you purpously being Obtuse ? Or do you seriously not know what happened at the end?

Flamers will always flame.  I have proven I am in no way obtuse, but you have proven yourself the exact opposite.  Go watch a video of the full conversation where the kid talks to Shepard.  You've been very wrong before-you know you thought Cerberus had to pay Liara to look for Shepard's body.

The kid needs to find a new way to ascend organics.  He doesn't think they should not be ascended.  And ascended means turning them into goo.  He still wants to do that.  The reapers are his solution, but he wants to find a new way to do that.  He never says Shepard proved him wrong.  In fact, he seems to be saying what Harbinger said, that Shepard has made it impossible for them to keep doing things this way and they need to find another way.

Shepard is told they are ascended to reaper form and Shepard says they'd like to keep their current form-the kid says they can't.

[LiarasShield]

Holger1405 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  Okay, Holger, I think I get what you're saying. From what I can surmise you're saying that, in the current universe where we have no option other than to trust the catalyst, you can at least reason that the options, uncolored by assumption and in the light of having NO option to deny them, can be rationalized and, after they play out, accepted to have done what they before claimed to be.

---  I myself chose Controll, reluctantly, witha  bad taste in my mouth, because even though I assumed it would fail, I felt like it was at least the opportunity where I violate the least free, sentient beings.

---  That said, if we HAD the option to just kill the Catalyst because he's basically the heart of the enemy, we would all have just killed him.

I would love to pull the plug on him! (if I had this option.) But would that, or rejecting the "new solutions," accomplish anything? The Reaper think on their own, they are obvious "programmed" to execute the cycle every 50000 years.

So probably not.

The important thing, the only thing that matters, the only reason why Shepard is there, is to stop the cycle.
That is Shepard's goal, not to seek revenge, or justice.

No it isn't about trying to stop the cycle shepard has always been about trying to stop the reapers hence why shepard always tryed to convince the council that the reapers were real and are a threat to every being that exists not to end a cycle shepard was never about that

[LiarasShield]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos is just insane all our forces are trapt in a nearly destroyed solar system because our main hero or heroin just gave into their creator the being who has used the reapers to pretty much destroy earth and the galaxy

And it doesn't matter if the reapers live or not we still would've had a better chance having our forces fight them till thee end instead of bowing to the enemies leader where they can live to kill us all in a trapt solar system or for us to die slowly

Thanatos you are insane beyond insane lunatic would be even further on the list

What the hell does that matter in this story? Shepard beats the reapers THATS the story not what happens after.

But shepard doesn't end up beating the reapers giving into submission and having the reapers live or our forces die from the reapers or from slowly dieing inspace does not accomplish the goal of DEFEAT THE REAPERS espically under our own willpower and not the catalysts

[Benchpress610]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

No you putting your faith that because of your actions you showed the kid as you call him that he was wrong.

The kid never indicates you showed him he was wrong.  He says the exact opposite.  If he thought he had been wrong, he wouldn't have continued to state stupid logic.  And when Shepard says people would like to keep their current form, he wouldn't tell Shepard they can't.  The kid definitely does not believe what he's been doing or what he's been thinking has been wrong.  He still wants to make people goo.

And it isn't "the kid as I call him", it's the kid as he chooses to present himself to Shepard.  He is certainly not a kid, something I have repeatedly said.  And I don't believe if he had shown himself in another form that people would be so happy that he is giving Shepard wonderful choices.

If the "kid" looked like TIM or a blob of slimy gunk or a Volus or Sovereign or Harbiner or a husk or Banshee or many other things other than a kid, I don't think there'd be a discussion.  Everyone would want him dead and they'd wonder where they could find a bunch of Cains.  They'd be shouting for Hackett to destroy the Citadel now, or as Archonsg put it, they'd be yelling for EDI and the Geth to get hacking.  Instead, he looks all innocent and non-threatening and suddenly people think, "hey maybe the kid thinks he's trying to do good things.  Maybe now he really loves people or likes Shepard," because leaving Shepard half dead was just a love tap.

Boy, does this guy have the slightest notion of English grammar? That sentence makes absolutely no sense whichever way you read it. Maybe if he’d used the verbs in the right tenses and with the proper syntax we might be able to get some light out of his gibberish.

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos is just insane all our forces are trapt in a nearly destroyed solar system because our main hero or heroin just gave into their creator the being who has used the reapers to pretty much destroy earth and the galaxy

And it doesn't matter if the reapers live or not we still would've had a better chance having our forces fight them till thee end instead of bowing to the enemies leader where they can live to kill us all in a trapt solar system or for us to die slowly

Thanatos you are insane beyond insane lunatic would be even further on the list

What the hell does that matter in this story? Shepard beats the reapers THATS the story not what happens after.

But shepard doesn't end up beating the reapers giving into submission and having the reapers live or our forces die from the reapers or from slowly dieing inspace does not accomplish the goal of DEFEAT THE REAPERS espically under our own willpower and not the catalysts

Shepard does beat the reapers.....If you cant understand how then maybe this game is to advanced for you.

[LiarasShield]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos is just insane all our forces are trapt in a nearly destroyed solar system because our main hero or heroin just gave into their creator the being who has used the reapers to pretty much destroy earth and the galaxy

And it doesn't matter if the reapers live or not we still would've had a better chance having our forces fight them till thee end instead of bowing to the enemies leader where they can live to kill us all in a trapt solar system or for us to die slowly

Thanatos you are insane beyond insane lunatic would be even further on the list

What the hell does that matter in this story? Shepard beats the reapers THATS the story not what happens after.

But shepard doesn't end up beating the reapers giving into submission and having the reapers live or our forces die from the reapers or from slowly dieing inspace does not accomplish the goal of DEFEAT THE REAPERS espically under our own willpower and not the catalysts

Shepard does beat the reapers.....If you cant understand how then maybe this game is to advanced for you.

Or maybe it shows how unintelligent you are or how ignorant you are about how we didn't really beat the reapers and how we didn't fight them till the end under our own willpower and it once again shows me you are a fool

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos is just insane all our forces are trapt in a nearly destroyed solar system because our main hero or heroin just gave into their creator the being who has used the reapers to pretty much destroy earth and the galaxy

And it doesn't matter if the reapers live or not we still would've had a better chance having our forces fight them till thee end instead of bowing to the enemies leader where they can live to kill us all in a trapt solar system or for us to die slowly

Thanatos you are insane beyond insane lunatic would be even further on the list

What the hell does that matter in this story? Shepard beats the reapers THATS the story not what happens after.

Uh, the story is not only about beating the reapers.  Or, you could just forget the genophage, rannoch, any love interest, and all the other parts of the game and just turn the game into and FPS with no story.  The story (which indicates a prologue, a beginning, a middle, an end, and an epilogue) is generally most definitely about more than destroying an enemy that has been wreaking havoc on the place where you live.  It is most definitely (in order to satisfy) about what comes next and how people are doing afterward.  Otherwise, who gives a damn that Eve is pregnant or Jacob had a kid or anything else.  This is part of why the ending is a big failure.

But, this story is also about what you as Shepard are willing to compromise in the face of such a huge foe.  The ending should allow Shepard and the player to fully see just what those compromises resulted in and that includes the aftermath as well as how Shepard and friends and the whole galaxy choose to fight.  Giving in to someone evil who only offers a lot of unknowns that you must have faith in, is suicide.

[LiarasShield]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Thanatos is just insane all our forces are trapt in a nearly destroyed solar system because our main hero or heroin just gave into their creator the being who has used the reapers to pretty much destroy earth and the galaxy

And it doesn't matter if the reapers live or not we still would've had a better chance having our forces fight them till thee end instead of bowing to the enemies leader where they can live to kill us all in a trapt solar system or for us to die slowly

Thanatos you are insane beyond insane lunatic would be even further on the list

What the hell does that matter in this story? Shepard beats the reapers THATS the story not what happens after.

Uh, the story is not only about beating the reapers.  Or, you could just forget the genophage, rannoch, any love interest, and all the other parts of the game and just turn the game into and FPS with no story.  The story (which indicates a prologue, a beginning, a middle, an end, and an epilogue) is generally most definitely about more than destroying an enemy that has been wreaking havoc on the place where you live.  It is most definitely (in order to satisfy) about what comes next and how people are doing afterward.  Otherwise, who gives a damn that Eve is pregnant or Jacob had a kid or anything else.  This is part of why the ending is a big failure.

But, this story is also about what you as Shepard are willing to compromise in the face of such a huge foe.  The ending should allow Shepard and the player to fully see just what those compromises resulted in and that includes the aftermath as well as how Shepard and friends and the whole galaxy choose to fight.  Giving in to someone evil who only offers a lot of unknowns that you must have faith in, is suicide.

Exactly my entire point that has spaneded over 200 hundred pages

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

The catalyst never says Shepard showed him he was wrong. He never said he couldn't keep doing what he's doing at all.  In fact, the catalyst is still doing what he's been doing while they are talking.  People are still being killed in the background.

He says his solution won't work any more and he needs to find a new solution.

He never says his goal has changed or that he was proven wrong in wanting to achieve that goal.  He still thinks synthetics will always destroy organics.  He still thinks organics must be ascended and turned into goo.  He only says he can't continue to do it the way he's been doing it.  He tells Shepard organics must be ascended, so he hasn't changed his mind at all.

You really need to replay the ending again (you don't have to play the whole game to get there, they have things called saved games that work well-oh and youtube), because he never said what you think he said.

Are you purpously being Obtuse ? Or do you seriously not know what happened at the end?

Flamers will always flame.  I have proven I am in no way obtuse, but you have proven yourself the exact opposite.  Go watch a video of the full conversation where the kid talks to Shepard.  You've been very wrong before-you know you thought Cerberus had to pay Liara to look for Shepard's body.

The kid needs to find a new way to ascend organics.  He doesn't think they should not be ascended.  And ascended means turning them into goo.  He still wants to do that.  The reapers are his solution, but he wants to find a new way to do that.  He never says Shepard proved him wrong.  In fact, he seems to be saying what Harbinger said, that Shepard has made it impossible for them to keep doing things this way and they need to find another way.

Shepard is told they are ascended to reaper form and Shepard says they'd like to keep their current form-the kid says they can't.

Really? www.youtube.com/watch

Try at around 2:30 where he says "It also proves my solution wont work anymore" Thats him admiting he was wrong.

Modifié par Thanatos144, 06 juin 2012 - 02:53 .

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...
 Shepard does beat the reapers.....If you cant understand how then maybe this game is to advanced for you.

Shepard only "beats" the reapers because the game loses its mind and gives over completely to outrageous space magic.

[LiarasShield]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Really???? You need to replay the game cause the catalyst said just that when he remarked shepard was the first to ever make it that far.

The catalyst never says Shepard showed him he was wrong. He never said he couldn't keep doing what he's doing at all.  In fact, the catalyst is still doing what he's been doing while they are talking.  People are still being killed in the background.

He says his solution won't work any more and he needs to find a new solution.

He never says his goal has changed or that he was proven wrong in wanting to achieve that goal.  He still thinks synthetics will always destroy organics.  He still thinks organics must be ascended and turned into goo.  He only says he can't continue to do it the way he's been doing it.  He tells Shepard organics must be ascended, so he hasn't changed his mind at all.

You really need to replay the ending again (you don't have to play the whole game to get there, they have things called saved games that work well-oh and youtube), because he never said what you think he said.

Are you purpously being Obtuse ? Or do you seriously not know what happened at the end?

Flamers will always flame.  I have proven I am in no way obtuse, but you have proven yourself the exact opposite.  Go watch a video of the full conversation where the kid talks to Shepard.  You've been very wrong before-you know you thought Cerberus had to pay Liara to look for Shepard's body.

The kid needs to find a new way to ascend organics.  He doesn't think they should not be ascended.  And ascended means turning them into goo.  He still wants to do that.  The reapers are his solution, but he wants to find a new way to do that.  He never says Shepard proved him wrong.  In fact, he seems to be saying what Harbinger said, that Shepard has made it impossible for them to keep doing things this way and they need to find another way.

Shepard is told they are ascended to reaper form and Shepard says they'd like to keep their current form-the kid says they can't.

Really? www.youtube.com/watch

Try at around 2:30 where he says "It also proves my solution wont work anymore" Thats him admiting he was wrong.

Are you deaf or do you have a reading disorder *Facepaplms*

[BlueStorm83]

Holger1405 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  Okay, Holger, I think I get what you're saying. From what I can surmise you're saying that, in the current universe where we have no option other than to trust the catalyst, you can at least reason that the options, uncolored by assumption and in the light of having NO option to deny them, can be rationalized and, after they play out, accepted to have done what they before claimed to be.

---  I myself chose Controll, reluctantly, witha  bad taste in my mouth, because even though I assumed it would fail, I felt like it was at least the opportunity where I violate the least free, sentient beings.

---  That said, if we HAD the option to just kill the Catalyst because he's basically the heart of the enemy, we would all have just killed him.

I would love to pull the plug on him! (if I had this option.) But would that, or rejecting the "new solutions," accomplish anything? The Reaper think on their own, they are obvious "programmed" to execute the cycle every 50000 years.

So probably not.

The important thing, the only thing that matters, the only reason why Shepard is there, is to stop the cycle.
That is Shepard's goal, not to seek revenge, or justice.

---  Well, I'd give the "Shepard's Goal" consideration over to each player specifically.  A Paragon Shepard might want justice, a Renegade Shepard might want revenge.  A Shepard who assembled a giant fleet might want to let them fight it out.  Judging entirely on information that the game gives me, I believe that we could actually kill the reapers Conventionally.

My Shepard, specifically, was there not to stop the cycles, not even to kill the reapers, but more specifically to save my allies.  That's why I picked Control, because even though it disgusted me morally, I hoped that at the very least my allies would get out alive.  Also, at the time, I wasn't aware that even Control would destroy the Relays.  Starboy was very vague about that.

---  Even accepting that IF the three choices work they'd at least end the cycles and prevent this all from happening again in the future, Synthesis is still disgusting, controll is still at the very best Amoral, and destruction still murders my allies.  And those three choices are still being presented by someone who just popped out of nowhere and said, "Hi, I'm the Reapers.  It's my fault that your friends died.  Please do what I want you to do now."

[BlueStorm83]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
 Shepard does beat the reapers.....If you cant understand how then maybe this game is to advanced for you.

Shepard only "beats" the reapers because the game loses its mind and gives over completely to outrageous space magic.

I'm breaking my own rule by indulging this quote from this... person, but I'd like to clarify:

Shepard only "beats" the reapers because the reapers themselves say to him "Die and we'll go away."  In essence, the Reapers just kinda GIVE UP.

[Benchpress610]

The reapers cease to be the primary adversary at the end of the game; the shiny blob is now the main foe. The way it is presented, Shepard has no choice (pun intended) but to choose one of the equally self-defeating choices offered by his enemy. I will call that a defeat.