23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Kathris89]

I think the fact that Shepard has to die doesn't need to be banned, I mean, I thought maybe she/he would die anyway, but what really bothered me was the fact that I didn't get to see what the hell happened to everything else I did! I would've liked to see how the krogan adapted to the genophage being cured; I would've liked to see how the geths and the quarians ended up getting along; I would've like to see how the salarians and the asaris rebuilt their worlds and so on.
And this is just me, but I would've loved to see what the hell happened to my crew?! I mean, I already lost all those friends I cared so much about (I cried like a baby when Mordin and Thane died), but what about everyone else? I understand if they couldn't put everyone back, but what about those aboard the Normandy a the end?
I want to see Tali and Liara, I want to know what happens to Joker and EDI and Doctor Chawkas, and most of all (for me) I want to see what happens to Garrus, who is my LI; if my Shepard dies because I didn't get enough War Assets or Galactic Readiness or whatever, I want to know what I did affected the lives of my friends! I want to see Garrus with my dog tags watching the sunset with his sniper rifle next to him; I want some kind of ceremony conmemorating all who fell, and if it's back on Earth, I want Anderson, or Hackett, to say a few words about me and my crew!
I want to see all of those who survived there, watching as some kind of monument is lifted for you! I mean, they don't have to talk, but wouldn't it change everything if you could see all those who fought with you all along, and all the friends you've made, and the Normandy's crew from all three games there to say goodbye to you one last time? That would've been so much better for me, even if I didn't get my "happily ever after"

(Ok, ranted long enough, sorry)

[Grubas]

where is my volus bomber? In EC I want a better answer then 75.
thank you

[3DandBeyond]

Volus bomber, Krogan on dino back, Jack and her Biotic kids. And no, I don't consider those phone calls to friends as some awesome goodbye closure. That was a hack job.

Actually since a lot of the other stuff was acquired while avoiding reaper tag, apparently they didn't think we cared about it.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 juin 2012 - 11:45 .

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...

About 75 ems I believe from each team promoted. I think there might be other factors but that is what I can tell from promoting one team then checking on SP Assests. Current N7 Assets are 6075 EMS, so ya, I have been hitting MP quite a bit. I will eventually get back to SP, when EC comes out, and complete that second run that's just been sitting there.

Wow!  I wish I could get my N7 up there, just in case the EC is good and they don't fix the MP issue.

I have about 8300 total EMS when my galactic readiness is at 100%.

I know we'd all briefly talked about it, but it looks like you have a shot at getting all the EMS you need through MP alone.  That really does show just how silly a factor it is.  Promoted N7 assets are ground forces (I mean if you get picky about this).

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 juin 2012 - 11:52 .

[Benchpress610]

daveyeisley wrote...

Make no mistake. Bioware has the rare opportunity to make almost everyone satisfied (perhaps not 'happy', but satisfied).

All they need to do is add additional choice and the possibility of a 'happier' ending (not a 'happy' ending, just 'happier', shep alive and enjoying/suffering through retirement with LI, still scarred by so many lost friends, etc).

That would take care of most of the folks who hate the ending. Not all, of course.

As this addition would not take anything away, the folks who like what currently exists get to keep what they like.

Bioware has the option to make this happen. I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I start hoping they will, because the idea of being disappointed again is depressing.

That’s the knot of the issue: satisfaction. This ending wasn’t satisfying in any way. The reasons have been enumerated and analyzed so many times that I’m starting to get numb. It doesn’t need to be a happy ending to be a satisfying one, although happy would be nice and it should be chance to get one, though hard to achieve.
 
I think the most common emotion engendered by this ending that I’ve seen expressed in this thread is emptiness. Most people feel, and I speak for myself, like “why bother, everything was for notting”… a satisfying ending, that’s all we are asking for…

[Benchpress610]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

About 75 ems I believe from each team promoted. I think there might be other factors but that is what I can tell from promoting one team then checking on SP Assests. Current N7 Assets are 6075 EMS, so ya, I have been hitting MP quite a bit. I will eventually get back to SP, when EC comes out, and complete that second run that's just been sitting there.

Wow!  I wish I could get my N7 up there, just in case the EC is good and they don't fix the MP issue.

I have about 8300 total EMS when my galactic readiness is at 100%.

I know we'd all briefly talked about it, but it looks like you have a shot at getting all the EMS you need through MP alone.  That really does show just how silly a factor it is.  Promoted N7 assets are ground forces (I mean if you get picky about this).

Yeah…I’m about at the same EMS as you (8300 with 100% readiness). That means if I stop playing MP and readiness goes back to 50%, I would have over 4000 EMS which is enough for the “best” ending if there is one.

[MSandt]

Redbelle wrote...

On the matter of the Catalyst forshadowing, can we have a show of hands who remembers the groundwork laid to get ppl ready for the Cat's introduction.......... Or perhaps someone could point to the game, the point in that game and or codex entry and when it became available. I've been wracking my mind for a hint as to the Cat's existence and I'm coming up empty.

sdinc009 wrote...

Where was the Catalyst ever alluded to earlier in the series and please cite the references if you're going to make this claim.

The origin of the Reapers was left intentionally vague in the first part when both Sovereign and the Prothean VI refused to give a clear answer as to the Reapers' origins. Shepard specifically asked Sovereign about their origins but was only given the "we're infinite" line. The Prothean VI speculated that it's "more likely" that their purpose is more than just harvesting organic life for survival. And, of course in the third game it is specified that there is an unknown creator.

Obviously none could give a specific answer. I spoke of hints. The Reapers were older than any existing advanced civilization and since all ancient advanced civilizations had been wiped out there could be no evidence of the Catalyst because the creator predated not just the advanced civilizations destroyed by the Reapers but the Reapers themselves.

[3DandBeyond]

Benchpress610 wrote...

daveyeisley wrote...

Make no mistake. Bioware has the rare opportunity to make almost everyone satisfied (perhaps not 'happy', but satisfied).

All they need to do is add additional choice and the possibility of a 'happier' ending (not a 'happy' ending, just 'happier', shep alive and enjoying/suffering through retirement with LI, still scarred by so many lost friends, etc).

That would take care of most of the folks who hate the ending. Not all, of course.

As this addition would not take anything away, the folks who like what currently exists get to keep what they like.

Bioware has the option to make this happen. I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I start hoping they will, because the idea of being disappointed again is depressing.

That’s the knot of the issue: satisfaction. This ending wasn’t satisfying in any way. The reasons have been enumerated and analyzed so many times that I’m starting to get numb. It doesn’t need to be a happy ending to be a satisfying one, although happy would be nice and it should be chance to get one, though hard to achieve.
 
I think the most common emotion engendered by this ending that I’ve seen expressed in this thread is emptiness. Most people feel, and I speak for myself, like “why bother, everything was for notting”… a satisfying ending, that’s all we are asking for…

It's really kind of funny.  I found a thread that lists links that are supposedly for threads that are pro-ending, people that like the current one.  There are many links listed.  The problem is most of them are not threads about liking the ending.  And some of the ones that are supposedly pro the current ending aren't exactly lovefests.  Some of the titles of the threads are things like, "Why I didn't hate the ending", "I didn't love it, but it's ok",  or something similar.  One I created is listed there and I specifically said I hate the ending.  And, the one literary professor's thread is listed there as well-the one where he discusses just how awful the ending was in literary structure and all.

All of those that are more pro-ending threads have at most a couple of dozen pages and of the ones I looked at a lot of the posts are from people that don't like the ending.

So, this is more "evidence" that points to people feeling exactly as you do.  I know on my first play of the ending, I was dumbfounded.  I couldn't figure out what happened and I thought I picked the wrong thing, though I had gotten the "Shepard gasps" ending.  I'd picked destroy because at least I destroyed the reapers, but I was really sick about EDI and the geth and when I saw the relays explode I figured the galaxy was destroyed so oooops.  But Joker was alive and I thought it was a joke.  I played it again, made a different choice, got the same scenes basically and then I felt stupid.  At one point I played it and didn't make a choice and tried shooting the kid and the game failed. I looked on the internet, because I had heard there were complaints about the ending, and I found no matter what I did, it didn't matter.  Then, yes emptiness and a kind of depression set in.  And then, I was angry.  Angry and sad that this was something someone was trying to say was awesome.  It isn't.

[3DandBeyond]

MSandt wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

On the matter of the Catalyst forshadowing, can we have a show of hands who remembers the groundwork laid to get ppl ready for the Cat's introduction.......... Or perhaps someone could point to the game, the point in that game and or codex entry and when it became available. I've been wracking my mind for a hint as to the Cat's existence and I'm coming up empty.

sdinc009 wrote...

Where was the Catalyst ever alluded to earlier in the series and please cite the references if you're going to make this claim.

The origin of the Reapers was left intentionally vague in the first part when both Sovereign and the Prothean VI refused to give a clear answer as to the Reapers' origins. Shepard specifically asked Sovereign about their origins but was only given the "we're infinite" line. The Prothean VI speculated that it's "more likely" that their purpose is more than just harvesting organic life for survival. And, of course in the third game it is specified that there is an unknown creator.

Obviously none could give a specific answer. I spoke of hints. The Reapers were older than any existing advanced civilization and since all ancient advanced civilizations had been wiped out there could be no evidence of the Catalyst because the creator predated not just the advanced civilizations destroyed by the Reapers but the Reapers themselves.

Vigil, if that is who you are referring to, in ME1 was not all-knowing.  Neither was Vendetta in ME3.  And no one knows all that the Protheans might have known or what they were wrong or right about.

Sovereign indicates they are controlled by NO ONE, but themselves.   He doesn't hint at this, he says it.  He says they are nations unto themselves, which sure sounds like they are autonomous.  They are more like bears than they are dogs on leashes with what he says.  They are also said to leave and hide out beyond the edge of the galaxy between cycles.  Actually, they are more like wolves or pack animals that roam wild.  We get deer that come through our backyard.  The "herd" is always preceded by one lone deer that seems to be trying to see if it's safe.  Sometimes a deer will make a noise that sounds like a bird and the rest of the deer will come to drink and feed.  Sovereign seems like that with the reapers coming once he makes way for them. 

Any hints you speak of are miniscule indications more like a shadow you may see out of the corner of your eye than something that's really there.  And those very minor supposed hints are not something you can pin a major thing like an ending on.

Even if we might consider someone is pulling the reapers' strings, they did not foreshadow the Catalyst and the reasons for the reapers-in fact, they did more foreshadowing of indoctrination, of dark energy, or of reapers just coming to eat people, and of the reapers' reproduction cycle (using people goo to make more reapers) than they did anything else.

I think we are all aware that at some point someone made these things, but nothing prepares you for the pile up at the end.  Nothing prepares you for this "kid" that says he controls them and basically is using synthetic monsters (or synthetic/organic constructs) to kill organics so other possible, imaginary synthetics at some point in the future will not destroy organics.  Nothing leads you to believe they are being controlled by anything other than maybe Harbinger-but even Harbinger is seen more like Sovereign, as a leader or head wolf.  The only thing that points in any way to this glowing being (and it is a very minor point that doesn't completely fit) is the description of the planet Klencory.  And if the kid is one of those beings of light, this suggests they are all dead-since the volus is looking for their crypts.  I'd sooner have believed the keepers are controlling the reapers than that beings of light are.

You are purposely changing the discussion.  We know the reapers came from somewhere and were created.  Nothing in the games indicates they are under this type of control, nor that they are there for the reasons given.

And if you believe that "ascension" means something other than death then let me point you to the hale-bopp-Heaven's Gate cult and what their leader told them. Or Jim Jones.  Ascending is a euphemism, because those dead bodies on the Citadel that were ascended by the conduit, sure look dead to me.


The other problem that this all presents is that no one knows just how advanced organics would be if they had been left alone and not tampered with by the Catalyst and reapers-they leave reaper tech lying around specifically to help organics advance and some of that is used to create synthetics that the Catalyst must then send reapers to protect organics from.  And no one knows what kind of a threat the geth would have posed had the reapers not intervened and got them to help them kill people.  Hmmm, the reapers used the geth as foot soldiers and the geth certainly were not capable of ascending anyone, they specifically were killing them.  Ascension my eye.  They were harvesting food/nutrition.  Reapers are synthetic/organic constructs and not truly synthesized, but they were working on getting full synthesis.

I don't care how old this kid is, he needs his medication.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 juin 2012 - 01:12 .

[Voodoo-j]

Got ending?

OMG the 2 jpegs in the wiki

http://masseffect.wi...tude=Integrity?

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 08 juin 2012 - 01:13 .

[BlueStorm83]

Collegeboy21 wrote...

I don't know if something like this has been suggested yet, but I don't have enough time to read through every post.
Here's my idea on how to make the war assets mean something, while preserving the artistic integrity of the original endings, while also providing players with a happy ending, and the complete fail scenario.
If the player arrives at Earth with the maximum possible amount of war assets, then the Crucible makes it to the citadel without taking any damage. This would allow it to fire a perfectly refined and controlled energy burst that does not destroy the Citadel, the relays, the Geth, or EDI, but ONLY takes out the Reapers, as was intended. Shepard survives, makes blue babies or what have you. You could even make it a white explosion.
If the player does not bring the maximum amount of assets to earth, but comes close, then the Crucible takes a bit of damage, preventing it from working perfectly, resulting in the ending as it stands for the best current possible ending scenario, with the Geth and EDI getting destroyed too. The fewer the assets brought to Earth, the more damage the Crucible takes, the worse the outcome gets. The next step down could be that it also destroys the relays, a step below that lays waste to Earth, and if the player brings in too few assets, the Reapers destroy the shield fleet and the Crucible and win.
Thus, the war assets can actually mean something other than simply being an arbitrary number. This also provides for the happier ending that some fans want, the current endings, and the ultimate fail scenario that some fans want as a possibility, which would add urgency to finding those assets.

What do you think, fellow forumites?

This would actually make 90% of the current ending make sense.  The only thing that still needs to be dealt with is the Starboy.

[Efeye]

I have a suggestion for an alternate me3 ending. It is based in the IT theory being true and the war assets being separated into different groups: citadel war assets, ground unit war assets, fleet war assets and crucible war assets. To few war assets in any of these groups will cause the player to fail.

This will be a long post so bear with me.

When Shepard fights on the catwalks around the dead reaper embryo in the Cerberus base a burst of energy will suddenly emit from the reaper, similar to the one from object rho. This will just shake Shepard a bit and the player will think nothing more of it. The rest of the game proceeds as normal until Shepard get to the god child/catalyst. All endings will proceed as normal except if Shepard chooses the destroy ending. The cutscenes will proceed as normal but when Shepard takes that breath at the end he/she actually wakes up in front of the reaper embryo in the Cerberus base from way back. The game continues! The reaper has just been destroyed (again) by Shepard repeatedly shooting it in any of the weak spots, something the player has not actually seen. Slowly, Shepard realizes (while the squadmates are waking up, holding their heads as if they have severe headache and dizziness) that to his/her left is a dragon tooth-spike immediately below the catwalk, further to the left are two exposed electric cables right next to the catwalk. The god child was the reaper embryo trying to make Shepard commit suicide! When destroyed, it immediately lost its grip on Shepard and the squadmates.

Proceeding into the Cerberus base Shepard encounters TIM and Kai Leng, however, this time TIM seems depressed. He explains that the catalyst was not what he thought it would be and that he has lost control of his forces. Kai Leng refuses to acknowledge this and Shepard kills them. The prothean VI then explains that the catalyst is the citadels energy core. It is as simple as that, the catalyst is just the energy source. The only thing powerful enough to fuel the crucible is the energy source of the largest mass relay in the galaxy!

Shepard the returns to the Normandy and speaks to admiral Hackett, who explains that the crucible is very simple: it is massive gun, a thanix cannon, combined with a mass relay. By creating a mass free corridor it can instantly shoot a high-velocity beam of superheated metal on any target in the galaxy (as long as it has a clear shot), and can detect and kill a reaper capital ship in seconds.

But how to get the catalyst? The reapers have closed the citadel (not moved it, it is too massive to move and doesn’t have any engines). The conduit and the keepers! The keepers still answer only to signals from the citadel and not the reapers. The reapers haven’t had the time to replace them with something else. If they could get someone of the people trapped inside the citadel to open the arms slightly they could pour in reinforcements from Illos! This is the first war-asset-dependent situation: if the player have not gathered enough c-sec and militia-related war assets, this will fail and the galaxy is lost in a cutscene (this however requires a very low citadel readiness rating). Otherwise, citadel forces will prepare the core and Captain Bailey or matriarch Aethyta (if unlocked) will glimpse open the doors and Shepard, all squadmates and the ground units pour in. Shepard will then be tasked to make his/her way to the citadel controls, activate the ciradel as a relay and send away the dislodged core in the mass-free corridor created by the citadel to the crucible (once the core has been ripped away, the citadel will power down completely). The core is a giant ring that will detach from the citadels inner ring, which it was a part of. Depending on Shepards citadel and ground force war assets, there will be several different scenarios.

Very low: the reapers forces will kill all the soldiers and squad members, and manage to kill Shepard before he/she manages to activate the citadel (Shepard´s death will be similar to when Mordins death in this video: ).

Low: All ground forces and squamates die, but Shepard manages to activate the citadel before he/she dies. If the crucible and fleet war assets are high, the galaxy will still be saved.

Medium: Most of the ground forces die, but so does the reaper troops. Shepard and the surviving squadmates jump onto the core and follow it to the crucible and continue the fight.

High: All squadmembers survive and jumps onto the ring. The ground forces gain a foothold on citadel and can be recued at the end of the game.

Very high: Makos, hammerheads, geth primes, krogans, salarian and asari commandos, quarian soldiers and even rachni troops tear through the reaper troops. Shepard and his squad mates can activate the citadel and follow the catalyst virtually unhindered.

When the giant catalyst ring connects to the crucible, it immediately powers up and starts firing at the reapers light years away (it does not do this automatically, it has a control room with the scientists controlling it). The reapers then counterattack in a desperate attempt to destroy the crucible. Despite Shepards fleet firing in parallel to the only relay leading to the crucible for days, creating a wall of high velocity rounds at the other end when the relays are activated, the reapers press on through sheer numbers and make a dash for the crucible. Smaller reaper troop transports board the crucible and attempt to kill the operators in the control room. If the crucible related war assets are low, Shepard and the remaining squadmates have to go down and defend the control room, wasting valuable time for what comes next. If the crucible related war assets are high, the crucible has several defence cannons shooting down reaper destroyers and transports, while Kasumi or Jacob (which are located on the crucible) hold the line tells Shepard they got the situation under control and ask why they are not surprised that most of the scientists Shepard recruited knows how to handle guns, while the reaper troops are being killed in the background.

Next, Shepard hears on the radio that despite the fleetand the crucible picking the off at a high pace, they can’t kill all the reapers before they reach the crucible and destroy it. If they do, the war is lost. Especially Harbinger is blasting through the fleet at a worrying phase, and the crucible does not have time to destroy him but instead has to focus on the closest reapers. EDI then comes up with a suggestion, and Shepard (heroically) declares that he/she will deal with Harbinger and order the rest of the fleet to focus on the other reapers. Shepard the flew out of the Normandy sitting on a probe controlled by EDI, with a bomb on the back and blasting at the reapers with a reloadable chain. This is a controlled scenario, and does not only give the player the ability to shoot at weak spots reported by EDI (such as joints and weapons on reapers who’s shields have been drained or locally destroyed by disruptor torpedoes from the Normandy and the fighters) that make the player feel that they have an active and even decisive role in the battle, it also gives a scope of how massive both the ships and the battle are.

Shepard the finally reach and board Harbinger, fighting of his internal defences and reaching his core to plant the bomb (all while Harbinger says things such as “u sux trolololol”, only with fancier words). Depending on if Shepard had to spend time defending the crucible control room and the number of fleet war assets, one of the following scenarios will happen:
Shepard had to defend the crucible AND low fleet war assets: Shepard does not have enough time to escape Harbinger before he reaches the crucible and has to detonate the bomb while lying next to it. His/her last words will be “I love you, [insert LI name here]!” or something (there may even be a dialogue wheel for Shepads last words) before pressing the detonator.

Shepard had to defend the crucible OR low fleet war assets: Shepard attemts to escape Harbinger by riding the probe out, but Harbinger is so close to the crucible that Shepard has to press the detonator before completely out of the blast radius and crashes to the planet that works as gravitational anchor for the crucible and dies, despite the Normandys rescue attempt.

Shepard did not have to defend the crucible AND medium fleet war assets: Same as above, but Shepard gets away far enough from the blast for it not to be lethal. While crashing to the planet, Normandy manage to rescue him/her. Shepard wakes up badly wounded (same as when walking into the transport beam to the citadel in the original ending) in the Normandy sick bay.

Shepard did not have defend the crucible AND high fleet war assets: Shepard manages to escape Harbinger, shout “Hey, Harbinger!” into the radio and give him the double middle finger before the bomb explodes.

After the successful defence of the crucible the reapers are completely defeated during the following weeks. Shepard talks to Anderson about how many people have died (for example, Anderson can say things like: “over 44 million casualties were reported in the last hour alone blah blah”). Shepard can then choose whether to settle down with his/her LI on the LI home planet, become a councillor and living on the citadel with his/her LI, or continue as a spectre with his/her LI, if applicable.

What do you guys think? Feel free to make suggestions to improve my version of the ending (or tell me its rubbish, print it, and use as toilet paper. That works too...)

Modifié par Efeye, 08 juin 2012 - 01:31 .

[sdinc009]

MSandt wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

On the matter of the Catalyst forshadowing, can we have a show of hands who remembers the groundwork laid to get ppl ready for the Cat's introduction.......... Or perhaps someone could point to the game, the point in that game and or codex entry and when it became available. I've been wracking my mind for a hint as to the Cat's existence and I'm coming up empty.

sdinc009 wrote...

Where was the Catalyst ever alluded to earlier in the series and please cite the references if you're going to make this claim.

The origin of the Reapers was left intentionally vague in the first part when both Sovereign and the Prothean VI refused to give a clear answer as to the Reapers' origins. Shepard specifically asked Sovereign about their origins but was only given the "we're infinite" line. The Prothean VI speculated that it's "more likely" that their purpose is more than just harvesting organic life for survival. And, of course in the third game it is specified that there is an unknown creator.

Obviously none could give a specific answer. I spoke of hints. The Reapers were older than any existing advanced civilization and since all ancient advanced civilizations had been wiped out there could be no evidence of the Catalyst because the creator predated not just the advanced civilizations destroyed by the Reapers but the Reapers themselves.

The Reaper origin was intentionally left vague because that creates an air of mystery around the antagonist. That's good, as it generates more of a malevalent and terriying mythos about the Reapers. But, you still failed to answer my question because none of what you said alludes, foreshadows, or in anyway makes reference to the Catalyst as a character in the narrative. The only mention the Prothean VI gives is that the pattern of extinction seems to show that there is "perhaps" a master to the Reapers. This in no way passes as a foreshadowing element for the Catalyst's sudden appearance as a character and the so called Reaper master. You claimed these allusions were made early in the series so again I'm gonna call you out and say cite references where this was ever done.

[Voodoo-j]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Got ending?

OMG the 2 jpegs in the wiki

http://masseffect.wi...tude=Integrity?

The wiki blogs, never thought about those..
If your listening, there is some good feedback there.
If your posting, go poke your head in and have a read.

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 08 juin 2012 - 01:45 .

[3DandBeyond]

Voodoo-j wrote...

Got ending?

OMG the 2 jpegs in the wiki

http://masseffect.wi...tude=Integrity?

Never saw the LotR one before, but the yo Dawg one is a classic.  Also, great is the diagram of story structure showing that you don't introduce new themes and characters right at the end.

The comments by Casey Hudson

“As Mass Effect 3 is the end of a planned trilogy, the developers are not constrainted by the necessity of
allowing the story diverge, yet also continue into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildly different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters.” — Casey Hudson

and Mike Gamble

“Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game.” — Mike Gamble

are critical points.  The one by Mike Gamble directly contradicts what is seen written about the ending on Mac Walters notepad in "The Final Hours"--"Lots of Speculation From Everyone."

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 juin 2012 - 01:49 .

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Collegeboy21 wrote...

I don't know if something like this has been suggested yet, but I don't have enough time to read through every post.
Here's my idea on how to make the war assets mean something, while preserving the artistic integrity of the original endings, while also providing players with a happy ending, and the complete fail scenario.
If the player arrives at Earth with the maximum possible amount of war assets, then the Crucible makes it to the citadel without taking any damage. This would allow it to fire a perfectly refined and controlled energy burst that does not destroy the Citadel, the relays, the Geth, or EDI, but ONLY takes out the Reapers, as was intended. Shepard survives, makes blue babies or what have you. You could even make it a white explosion.
If the player does not bring the maximum amount of assets to earth, but comes close, then the Crucible takes a bit of damage, preventing it from working perfectly, resulting in the ending as it stands for the best current possible ending scenario, with the Geth and EDI getting destroyed too. The fewer the assets brought to Earth, the more damage the Crucible takes, the worse the outcome gets. The next step down could be that it also destroys the relays, a step below that lays waste to Earth, and if the player brings in too few assets, the Reapers destroy the shield fleet and the Crucible and win.
Thus, the war assets can actually mean something other than simply being an arbitrary number. This also provides for the happier ending that some fans want, the current endings, and the ultimate fail scenario that some fans want as a possibility, which would add urgency to finding those assets.

What do you think, fellow forumites?

This would actually make 90% of the current ending make sense.  The only thing that still needs to be dealt with is the Starboy.

A shot to the face from a Cain ought to do nicely. 

Actually, making assets mean something is a great point.  As it is there's no tangible effect the loss of Dino riding Krogan should have or the loss of a whole fleet for that matter as it relates to the Crucible.  Since the reapers don't attack the Crucible EVER, it's amazying just how finicky it is in the type of beam it fires.

[sdinc009]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

daveyeisley wrote...

Make no mistake. Bioware has the rare opportunity to make almost everyone satisfied (perhaps not 'happy', but satisfied).

All they need to do is add additional choice and the possibility of a 'happier' ending (not a 'happy' ending, just 'happier', shep alive and enjoying/suffering through retirement with LI, still scarred by so many lost friends, etc).

That would take care of most of the folks who hate the ending. Not all, of course.

As this addition would not take anything away, the folks who like what currently exists get to keep what they like.

Bioware has the option to make this happen. I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I start hoping they will, because the idea of being disappointed again is depressing.

That’s the knot of the issue: satisfaction. This ending wasn’t satisfying in any way. The reasons have been enumerated and analyzed so many times that I’m starting to get numb. It doesn’t need to be a happy ending to be a satisfying one, although happy would be nice and it should be chance to get one, though hard to achieve.
 
I think the most common emotion engendered by this ending that I’ve seen expressed in this thread is emptiness. Most people feel, and I speak for myself, like “why bother, everything was for notting”… a satisfying ending, that’s all we are asking for…

It's really kind of funny.  I found a thread that lists links that are supposedly for threads that are pro-ending, people that like the current one.  There are many links listed.  The problem is most of them are not threads about liking the ending.  And some of the ones that are supposedly pro the current ending aren't exactly lovefests.  Some of the titles of the threads are things like, "Why I didn't hate the ending", "I didn't love it, but it's ok",  or something similar.  One I created is listed there and I specifically said I hate the ending.  And, the one literary professor's thread is listed there as well-the one where he discusses just how awful the ending was in literary structure and all.

All of those that are more pro-ending threads have at most a couple of dozen pages and of the ones I looked at a lot of the posts are from people that don't like the ending.

So, this is more "evidence" that points to people feeling exactly as you do.  I know on my first play of the ending, I was dumbfounded.  I couldn't figure out what happened and I thought I picked the wrong thing, though I had gotten the "Shepard gasps" ending.  I'd picked destroy because at least I destroyed the reapers, but I was really sick about EDI and the geth and when I saw the relays explode I figured the galaxy was destroyed so oooops.  But Joker was alive and I thought it was a joke.  I played it again, made a different choice, got the same scenes basically and then I felt stupid.  At one point I played it and didn't make a choice and tried shooting the kid and the game failed. I looked on the internet, because I had heard there were complaints about the ending, and I found no matter what I did, it didn't matter.  Then, yes emptiness and a kind of depression set in.  And then, I was angry.  Angry and sad that this was something someone was trying to say was awesome.  It isn't.

Oh don't feel bad 3D, because if you go through another play through and have EDI always in your party and get the most respect points with her keeping everyone else low you can still choose Destroy, but guess what!? EDI will walk off the Normady still alive! That makes total sense, right? I mean you just killed all synthetics, but EDI for some reason doesn't count as synthetic because, $#% HTROG<VDC, sorry this logic just gave me a seisure. Also, Giligan and the Professor are on board making a coconut radio that utilizes quantum entanglement, so we can call a rescue party.

[BlueStorm83]

--- To Efeye!

I LOVE IT!

Also, I'd love to have Shepard falling into Earth's atmosphere, already on fire from re-entry, saved by the Normandy, and he wakes up, Kaiden's standing over him. Shepard looks up, starts laughing, and goes, "Holy ****. Just... holy ****, man." And Kaiden nods and goes, "Mm hm. Holy ****, Shepard."

[BlueStorm83]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Logic check on that EMS idea.
How does having more ships, more ground troops, more N7 specialists (6000 ems and counting for me) Dino mounts and other non-crucible effecting tech items, affect how the Crucible will fire, what it will fire and how powerful it'll fire.

Seriously.

I think they were going to use them to hold off the reapers long enough for shepard to use the catalyst.....They never say it though but that was my thinking on it.

This is actually a really good point.  If they had included some rendered scenes of our War Assets distracting the Reaper Fleet, or absorbing shots that were aimed at the Crucible, it could easily explain why the Destroy beam could **** up and kill everyone if you have a low EMS.

The Ground Forces wouldn't really effect this, but they could have had scenes of the Krogan Dino Rider or some of Aria's mercenaries, or even a battle-armored Elcor with a missile battery on his shoulders holding ground ON the citadel, protecting the Crucible/Citadel power relays or something.

[3DandBeyond]

sdinc009 wrote...

The Reaper origin was intentionally left vague because that creates an air of mystery around the antagonist. That's good, as it generates more of a malevalent and terriying mythos about the Reapers. But, you still failed to answer my question because none of what you said alludes, foreshadows, or in anyway makes reference to the Catalyst as a character in the narrative. The only mention the Prothean VI gives is that the pattern of extinction seems to show that there is "perhaps" a master to the Reapers. This in no way passes as a foreshadowing element for the Catalyst's sudden appearance as a character and the so called Reaper master. You claimed these allusions were made early in the series so again I'm gonna call you out and say cite references where this was ever done.

I have to say that Sovereign saying they were unknowable was far creepier than anything else in the game.  I thought that idea was really cool.  It of course may just be what they think of themselves, but why not?  It may also just be that they don't think organic beings that they had to help advance with their tech, are incapable of the high level of thought they possess. 

In War of the Worlds, other than domination and conquest, the Martian invaders were never explained.  Sometimes, evil just is and doesn't have any real motive and that is far more interesting to me than some last minute, artificial reason that doesn't fit in with the rest of the story.

I didn't need them to be explained.  They were scary and could have been awesome in Shepard's nightmares.  The bits and pieces within those nightmares (the sounds and then the voices) are much more effective than the inclusion of the kid in them. 

The reapers see people as bugs to be squashed.  How can people ever understand that.  And there was also what Saren and Sovereign said as motivation-Synthesis.  You can understand they just plain needed people paste to carry on with that.  It's evil and scary and more than enough of an explanation.  The whole idea of making people paste is sickening and frightening.  I almost think you don't really want to know why. 

The idea that they had a puppet master just ruins it/cheapens it.  And on top of that, the idea that it tries to look like an innocent human just sends it into la la land.  They were monsters, but now some "kid" thing is in charge.  Ugh.

[akenn312]

MSandt wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

On the matter of the Catalyst forshadowing, can we have a show of hands who remembers the groundwork laid to get ppl ready for the Cat's introduction.......... Or perhaps someone could point to the game, the point in that game and or codex entry and when it became available. I've been wracking my mind for a hint as to the Cat's existence and I'm coming up empty.

sdinc009 wrote...

Where was the Catalyst ever alluded to earlier in the series and please cite the references if you're going to make this claim.

The origin of the Reapers was left intentionally vague in the first part when both Sovereign and the Prothean VI refused to give a clear answer as to the Reapers' origins. Shepard specifically asked Sovereign about their origins but was only given the "we're infinite" line. The Prothean VI speculated that it's "more likely" that their purpose is more than just harvesting organic life for survival. And, of course in the third game it is specified that there is an unknown creator.

Obviously none could give a specific answer. I spoke of hints. The Reapers were older than any existing advanced civilization and since all ancient advanced civilizations had been wiped out there could be no evidence of the Catalyst because the creator predated not just the advanced civilizations destroyed by the Reapers but the Reapers themselves.

This is what drives me up a wall a little bit with people that are trying to defend the ending, there is nothing in this story that proves the Catalyst cannot give any evidence or the history that all the origins of the advanced civilizations were lost, you are making that up to make the end make sense to you, that is not a logical conclusion that is just dreaming up a way to make bad writing work. If the Catalyst has the ability to change everyones DNA how the heck can he loose origins of what happened previously to make him start this genocidal cycle? Also the Reapers preserving and ascending organics disprove this as well. If you preserve something you mean to keep it forever. Every Reaper is a monstrous version of a advanced civilization so why would they not contain a history or an origin of how they fell or the synthetic uprisings?

You are correct the Reapers were left intentionally vague because this creative team had no idea how they were going to make them work. They even stated this many times and i'm paraphrasing here but they all have said something like "We kicked around many ideas on the Reapers motivation" So the "You cannot comprehend" line was just buying them time until they found a way to fit it together.

But this concept is not a good way to tie it in. You can't say a concept is beyond human comprehension them throw in a concept that is easy to comprehend at the last minute and something you disproved with your previous story-lines. Stop head cannoning and mental retconning to make this work. The fact is, Legion and EDI's story-lines instantly disprove the synthetic vs. organic conflict issue that the Reapers claim is unavoidable. This is within the story. We visually see it in the game.

Bioware has to stop telling us one thing then in the next scene contradicting it, the reason they have gotten lazy doing this is because they know some fans will just mentally throw out their brains to make it work. Stop letting them get away with this. This is a Sci-Fi Space Opera not a Summer B movie action flix.

Modifié par akenn312, 08 juin 2012 - 02:23 .

[3DandBeyond]

sdinc009 wrote...

Oh don't feel bad 3D, because if you go through another play through and have EDI always in your party and get the most respect points with her keeping everyone else low you can still choose Destroy, but guess what!? EDI will walk off the Normady still alive! That makes total sense, right? I mean you just killed all synthetics, but EDI for some reason doesn't count as synthetic because, $#% HTROG<VDC, sorry this logic just gave me a seisure. Also, Giligan and the Professor are on board making a coconut radio that utilizes quantum entanglement, so we can call a rescue party.

OMG, I laughed so hard.  The Normandy is now the SS Minnow, little buddy.

[sdinc009]

Efeye wrote...

I have a suggestion for an alternate me3 ending. It is based in the IT theory being true and the war assets being separated into different groups: citadel war assets, ground unit war assets, fleet war assets and crucible war assets. To few war assets in any of these groups will cause the player to fail.

This will be a long post so bear with me.

When Shepard fights on the catwalks around the dead reaper embryo in the Cerberus base a burst of energy will suddenly emit from the reaper, similar to the one from object rho. This will just shake Shepard a bit and the player will think nothing more of it. The rest of the game proceeds as normal until Shepard get to the god child/catalyst. All endings will proceed as normal except if Shepard chooses the destroy ending. The cutscenes will proceed as normal but when Shepard takes that breath at the end he/she actually wakes up in front of the reaper embryo in the Cerberus base from way back. The game continues! The reaper has just been destroyed (again) by Shepard repeatedly shooting it in any of the weak spots, something the player has not actually seen. Slowly, Shepard realizes (while the squadmates are waking up, holding their heads as if they have severe headache and dizziness) that to his/her left is a dragon tooth-spike immediately below the catwalk, further to the left are two exposed electric cables right next to the catwalk. The god child was the reaper embryo trying to make Shepard commit suicide! When destroyed, it immediately lost its grip on Shepard and the squadmates.

Proceeding into the Cerberus base Shepard encounters TIM and Kai Leng, however, this time TIM seems depressed. He explains that the catalyst was not what he thought it would be and that he has lost control of his forces. Kai Leng refuses to acknowledge this and Shepard kills them. The prothean VI then explains that the catalyst is the citadels energy core. It is as simple as that, the catalyst is just the energy source. The only thing powerful enough to fuel the crucible is the energy source of the largest mass relay in the galaxy!

Shepard the returns to the Normandy and speaks to admiral Hackett, who explains that the crucible is very simple: it is massive gun, a thanix cannon, combined with a mass relay. By creating a mass free corridor it can instantly shoot a high-velocity beam of superheated metal on any target in the galaxy (as long as it has a clear shot), and can detect and kill a reaper capital ship in seconds.

But how to get the catalyst? The reapers have closed the citadel (not moved it, it is too massive to move and doesn’t have any engines). The conduit and the keepers! The keepers still answer only to signals from the citadel and not the reapers. The reapers haven’t had the time to replace them with something else. If they could get someone of the people trapped inside the citadel to open the arms slightly they could pour in reinforcements from Illos! This is the first war-asset-dependent situation: if the player have not gathered enough c-sec and militia-related war assets, this will fail and the galaxy is lost in a cutscene (this however requires a very low citadel readiness rating). Otherwise, citadel forces will prepare the core and Captain Bailey or matriarch Aethyta (if unlocked) will glimpse open the doors and Shepard, all squadmates and the ground units pour in. Shepard will then be tasked to make his/her way to the citadel controls, activate the ciradel as a relay and send away the dislodged core in the mass-free corridor created by the citadel to the crucible (once the core has been ripped away, the citadel will power down completely). The core is a giant ring that will detach from the citadels inner ring, which it was a part of. Depending on Shepards citadel and ground force war assets, there will be several different scenarios.

Very low: the reapers forces will kill all the soldiers and squad members, and manage to kill Shepard before he/she manages to activate the citadel (Shepard´s death will be similar to when Mordins death in this video: ).

Low: All ground forces and squamates die, but Shepard manages to activate the citadel before he/she dies. If the crucible and fleet war assets are high, the galaxy will still be saved.

Medium: Most of the ground forces die, but so does the reaper troops. Shepard and the surviving squadmates jump onto the core and follow it to the crucible and continue the fight.

High: All squadmembers survive and jumps onto the ring. The ground forces gain a foothold on citadel and can be recued at the end of the game.

Very high: Makos, hammerheads, geth primes, krogans, salarian and asari commandos, quarian soldiers and even rachni troops tear through the reaper troops. Shepard and his squad mates can activate the citadel and follow the catalyst virtually unhindered.

When the giant catalyst ring connects to the crucible, it immediately powers up and starts firing at the reapers light years away (it does not do this automatically, it has a control room with the scientists controlling it). The reapers then counterattack in a desperate attempt to destroy the crucible. Despite Shepards fleet firing in parallel to the only relay leading to the crucible for days, creating a wall of high velocity rounds at the other end when the relays are activated, the reapers press on through sheer numbers and make a dash for the crucible. Smaller reaper troop transports board the crucible and attempt to kill the operators in the control room. If the crucible related war assets are low, Shepard and the remaining squadmates have to go down and defend the control room, wasting valuable time for what comes next. If the crucible related war assets are high, the crucible has several defence cannons shooting down reaper destroyers and transports, while Kasumi or Jacob (which are located on the crucible) hold the line tells Shepard they got the situation under control and ask why they are not surprised that most of the scientists Shepard recruited knows how to handle guns, while the reaper troops are being killed in the background.

Next, Shepard hears on the radio that despite the fleetand the crucible picking the off at a high pace, they can’t kill all the reapers before they reach the crucible and destroy it. If they do, the war is lost. Especially Harbinger is blasting through the fleet at a worrying phase, and the crucible does not have time to destroy him but instead has to focus on the closest reapers. EDI then comes up with a suggestion, and Shepard (heroically) declares that he/she will deal with Harbinger and order the rest of the fleet to focus on the other reapers. Shepard the flew out of the Normandy sitting on a probe controlled by EDI, with a bomb on the back and blasting at the reapers with a reloadable chain. This is a controlled scenario, and does not only give the player the ability to shoot at weak spots reported by EDI (such as joints and weapons on reapers who’s shields have been drained or locally destroyed by disruptor torpedoes from the Normandy and the fighters) that make the player feel that they have an active and even decisive role in the battle, it also gives a scope of how massive both the ships and the battle are.

Shepard the finally reach and board Harbinger, fighting of his internal defences and reaching his core to plant the bomb (all while Harbinger says things such as “u sux trolololol”, only with fancier words). Depending on if Shepard had to spend time defending the crucible control room and the number of fleet war assets, one of the following scenarios will happen:
Shepard had to defend the crucible AND low fleet war assets: Shepard does not have enough time to escape Harbinger before he reaches the crucible and has to detonate the bomb while lying next to it. His/her last words will be “I love you, [insert LI name here]!” or something (there may even be a dialogue wheel for Shepads last words) before pressing the detonator.

Shepard had to defend the crucible OR low fleet war assets: Shepard attemts to escape Harbinger by riding the probe out, but Harbinger is so close to the crucible that Shepard has to press the detonator before completely out of the blast radius and crashes to the planet that works as gravitational anchor for the crucible and dies, despite the Normandys rescue attempt.

Shepard did not have to defend the crucible AND medium fleet war assets: Same as above, but Shepard gets away far enough from the blast for it not to be lethal. While crashing to the planet, Normandy manage to rescue him/her. Shepard wakes up badly wounded (same as when walking into the transport beam to the citadel in the original ending) in the Normandy sick bay.

Shepard did not have defend the crucible AND high fleet war assets: Shepard manages to escape Harbinger, shout “Hey, Harbinger!” into the radio and give him the double middle finger before the bomb explodes.

After the successful defence of the crucible the reapers are completely defeated during the following weeks. Shepard talks to Anderson about how many people have died (for example, Anderson can say things like: “over 44 million casualties were reported in the last hour alone blah blah”). Shepard can then choose whether to settle down with his/her LI on the LI home planet, become a councillor and living on the citadel with his/her LI, or continue as a spectre with his/her LI, if applicable.

What do you guys think? Feel free to make suggestions to improve my version of the ending (or tell me its rubbish, print it, and use as toilet paper. That works too...)

This was pretty good. I'd be happy with this. Not perfect, but a definate improvement upon what we currently have. You almost lost me whe taking things back as far as TIM's base, but managed to bring things back and tie everything up pretty well. I don't think Shepards character would shoot a double middle finger, but certainly would have mocking commentary. Over all, way to go! You just fixed the ending.

[ChaseB]

Tali is my chosen squeese, right? I have her along with me on my final mission because I want to spend my last moments with her. She is right behind me on our mad dash to the beam , then we get blasted with a laser cannon. Events happen, blah blah. Ending scene: Joker is outrunning a galaxy-wide psycho wave at serious faster-than-light speeds finally to crash land on a planet that is clearly NOT earth, and who should walk out of the ship with him? TALI? How the heck did she get on the Normandy? wasn't she just behind me? I'm confused.

[LiarasShield]

The whole thing about shepard having to die in a series about choice and actions mattering does not make any sense


and people should be able to choose wether they want a happy or sad ending depending on what they want and the choices they make

The collector base depending on what you did made everybody live or everybody die

They could've kept the forumla or player choice towards the end of the game wether people want a sad sacrifical ending with the hero dieing or a happy uplifting ending where the hero lives and gets the guy or the girl and can help rebuild the galaxy

This ending is only catering to the sad bittersweet people and the polls and organizations have shown alot that people don't just want sad or bittersweet or to be derailed in the final moments


and the only way I can see these endings being ok is if you can some how trust the catalyst but hes the reaper creator he has been destroying our forces thee entire time and his reapers are still destroying our forces in the background hence why I can't trust him or agree with him

If they made the crucible be like the collector base bioware most likely wouldn't taking so much hate or fire right now