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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#22701
3DandBeyond

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akenn312 wrote...


Wow

So that basically contradicts everything they have said now about how the Galaxy is not left in a worse state without the Relays. So yes the crew is stranded. Yes the entire Fleet is trapped in the Sol system and yes there is not any way for the Normandy to get back or anyone stranded in the Sol system to get back or will build new Relays. So they just magically forced the Normandy to crash on another planet so people could dream up the Normandy crew went Robinson Crusoe and started a new civilization, so they could put in this 10,000 year old Stargazer scene. They didn't consider anything else.

They honeslty didn't see how bringing all the galactic fleets to one spot then taking away intergalactic travel strands everyone.  This is why you think of your ending before you make the second and third game.

Wow...just wow.



It never set right with me, that whole stargazer scene.  I always did feel like they couldn't travel in space or something like that-couldn't put my finger on it.  But the little kid asks when he can travel to the stars and the granpa says one day.  Then he says there are many stars in the galaxy and each star could have many worlds and every world could be home to many people or something like that.  They don't travel in space in that time. 

#22702
BlueStorm83

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3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Prothean VI---"The Crucible will cause a galactic dark age."  I'm not seeing this as a good thing.


Who said this?  Like, which VI, and when and where?


It's actually in "the Final Hours" and something Mac Walters said as well.


The notes from the Final Hours.



The firing of the Catalyst creates a Galactic Dark Age. This age lasts
at least 10,000 years. During this age, there is no interstellar
spaceflight. The final scene with the Stargazer and his grandson occurs
sometime after these 10,000 years.


It was something left out of the dialogue for Vendetta-original dialogue.


---  WOW, no interstellar space flight.  Not even from Sol to Alpha Centauri.  Incredible.  It just keeps getting worse.

Of course, this doesn't contradict what they said about nobody on the fleet starving to death.  They could have all just died in the shockwave, regardless of what you pick.

This isn't how you end a series.  This is how you BEGIN a series.  And a series already began after the desperate firing of a super weapon that ****ed all sentient life.  WE CALLED THAT SERIES HALO.

#22703
Guest_BladeHero12_*

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- A woman at Pixar has recently tweeted 22 rules that Pixar has for telling a good story. I'm gonna copy and paste a few of them here.

#2: You gotta keep in mind what’s interesting to you as an audience, not what’s fun to do as a writer. They can be v. different.

#7: Come up with your ending before you figure out your middle. Seriously. Endings are hard, get yours working up front.

#9: When you’re stuck, make a list of what WOULDN’T happen next. Lots of times the material to get you unstuck will show up.

#11: Putting it on paper lets you start fixing it. If it stays in your head, a perfect idea, you’ll never share it with anyone.

#13: Give your characters opinions. Passive/malleable might seem likable to you as you write, but it’s poison to the audience.

#14: Why must you tell THIS story? What’s the belief burning within you that your story feeds off of? That’s the heart of it.

#15: If you were your character, in this situation, how would you feel? Honesty lends credibility to unbelievable situations.

#17: No work is ever wasted. If it’s not working, let go and move on - it’ll come back around to be useful later.

#19: Coincidences to get characters into trouble are great; coincidences to get them out of it are cheating.

#21: You gotta identify with your situation/characters, can’t just write ‘cool’. What would make YOU act that way?

#22: What’s the essence of your story? Most economical telling of it? If you know that, you can build out from there.

--- Those I listed could have really cleaned things up here.


I think Bioware violated #2 at the very begging of ME2; I've never seen how Shepard could be brought back exactly as he/she was before dying. The whole "Reapers make goo out of advanced organics" idea also seems to be present to simply increase the player's hate of the enemy. There is also the fact that the beam in London stays active even when your forces are clearly headed for its location, and the fact that the beam doesn't send Shepard to "Organic Processing"; very accomadating of the Reapers, giving you a way to access the heart of their operations.
Also...
- Ashley/Kaiden was really lucky on Horizon in ME2
- The mystery shuttle departure befor the Collector attack on the Normandy
- The Crucible is implemented very poorly 
- There are no visible reprecussions for Shepard's decision of ally with Cerberus (no trial is shown)
- the timing of TIM's indoctrination is convientently vauge

Honestly, the main narrative from ME2 on has numerous weak points, yet the missions to recurit characters in ME2 and their loyalty missions are good. In fact almost every aspect of the ME universe is well-crafted except for the main story (ME2 and ME3). I felt driven to explore the galaxy and the lives of my teammates, but the stopping the Collectors/Reapers was more of task for me. I wanted to save the crew and colonists in ME2, I wanted to save all the people suffering in ME3, and I feel that main story missions were fine; the overall reason for embarking on the journey just seems... unimportant. The ending is so jarring because, one its very poorly executed/badly broken, and two its the end; there isn't anything else to do, no more characters to talk to, no more places to explore, no more baddies to shoot/blast away at with tech powers/own with biotics. 

Was ME1 victim to hard-to-believe events? Did the writer's change after the first game? Did EA put too much pressure on Bioware to quickly put out a product? Is everyone that praises the story of ME2/ME3 lying, or are they just ignoring the issues with the main plot?

BTW, I did enjoy the story lines on Tuchanka and Rannoch, and I'm glad Thane died a hero on the Citadel (beats wasting away in a hospital bed).   

#22704
Guest_BladeHero12_*

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3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Prothean VI---"The Crucible will cause a galactic dark age."  I'm not seeing this as a good thing.


Who said this?  Like, which VI, and when and where?


It's actually in "the Final Hours" and something Mac Walters said as well.


The notes from the Final Hours.



The firing of the Catalyst creates a Galactic Dark Age. This age lasts
at least 10,000 years. During this age, there is no interstellar
spaceflight. The final scene with the Stargazer and his grandson occurs
sometime after these 10,000 years.


It was something left out of the dialogue for Vendetta-original dialogue.


That's just depressing...

I guess Mac Walters (he is the lead writer for ME3 right?) and Casey Hudson really did write the game's ending all by themselves (I read this here: www.gamesthirst.com/2012/03/25/mass-effect-3-writer-accuse-casey-hudson-of-going-it-alone-bioware-stays-silent/); no peer editing at all...

#22705
akenn312

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3DandBeyond wrote...

akenn312 wrote...


Wow

So that basically contradicts everything they have said now about how the Galaxy is not left in a worse state without the Relays. So yes the crew is stranded. Yes the entire Fleet is trapped in the Sol system and yes there is not any way for the Normandy to get back or anyone stranded in the Sol system to get back or will build new Relays. So they just magically forced the Normandy to crash on another planet so people could dream up the Normandy crew went Robinson Crusoe and started a new civilization, so they could put in this 10,000 year old Stargazer scene. They didn't consider anything else.

They honeslty didn't see how bringing all the galactic fleets to one spot then taking away intergalactic travel strands everyone.  This is why you think of your ending before you make the second and third game.

Wow...just wow.



It never set right with me, that whole stargazer scene.  I always did feel like they couldn't travel in space or something like that-couldn't put my finger on it.  But the little kid asks when he can travel to the stars and the granpa says one day.  Then he says there are many stars in the galaxy and each star could have many worlds and every world could be home to many people or something like that.  They don't travel in space in that time. 


There it is, good point, they meant for intergalactic travel to end the way they wrote that Stargazer scene. They meant the Normandy crash to be some new Garden of Eden thing, so basically yes the stranded Normandy crew repopulates the new Earth or whatever it is. There is no denying what they showed us and what that crash was supposed to mean.

So yeah, whoever your love intrest was at the time will by duty have to get it on with your other squadmates and Joker to repopulate the species.

So again proof Bioware has again gone back from what they intended, telling people no one is stranded on Sol and they can rebuild the Relays. Ect Ect

Artistic integrity...yeah, sure it is.

See when we leave out others with all these wild speculations and headcannons we can truly break down how awful this is. ha ha. It's almost so stupid bad it's laughable.

Modifié par akenn312, 08 juin 2012 - 07:30 .


#22706
sdinc009

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Did Casey Hudson really say that they scrapped the final boss because it was too video gamey!? I'm sorry, but WTF am I playing, a sandwich!? Nope, I was playing a video game I kind of want a video game to be video gamey. Liarashields, can I get a double face palm please

#22707
Redbelle

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sdinc009 wrote...

Did Casey Hudson really say that they scrapped the final boss because it was too video gamey!? I'm sorry, but WTF am I playing, a sandwich!? Nope, I was playing a video game I kind of want a video game to be video gamey. Liarashields, can I get a double face palm please


Hmmmmmmmm, saaaaaandwiiiiiiiich <drooool>

#22708
FallenAngel069

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i got one question bioware dont u think that the ending makes a hell of a lot more sense to people if u prove that a indoctrination theory is posible or true it makes the fans happier. and secondly when u finish the game theres a screen that says to keep the saves for future dlc on the story of shepard or single player. are single player dlc in the works besides the extended cut cut scenes because to be honest most of the fans want single player dlc not crappy mp dlc people wanna see dlc that extend or bring new things to and already don story line for example batman arkham city they made a great 2 hour single player dlc expanding the already amazing ending is any of this in the works for me3 or is just all multiplayer dlc what we can expect to get?:mellow:

#22709
FallenAngel069

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any news on a release date to this extended cut dlc thing??

#22710
FallenAngel069

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i wonder if bioware is ever gonna fix the damn framerate drop problems on the ps3 version

#22711
3DandBeyond

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FallenAngel069 wrote...

any news on a release date to this extended cut dlc thing??


Well, all they said was that summer was a planned release date, but not a guarantee and that could mean end of summer or not.  I think the longer it takes, the better it may bode for those of us that do not like the ending.

#22712
Redbelle

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FallenAngel069 wrote...

any news on a release date to this extended cut dlc thing??


I wish they'd drop the whole silence in the library act and say something. Maybe in E3? I don't know, they haven't said a thing about it so far.

Maybe they could go the Vavle route and put in the directors commentary so we can hear what was going on in the mind of the developers when they made certain sections.

#22713
Voodoo-j

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Redbelle wrote...

FallenAngel069 wrote...

any news on a release date to this extended cut dlc thing??


I wish they'd drop the whole silence in the library act and say something. Maybe in E3? I don't know, they haven't said a thing about it so far.

Maybe they could go the Vavle route and put in the directors commentary so we can hear what was going on in the mind of the developers when they made certain sections.



Threre was a tweet about nothing being released at E3.

#22714
jeweledleah

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funny story. I'm playing through ME2 again and get to the disabled collector vessel/derelic reaper cue in.

you know what TIM tells Shepard? that they found the target of that massive weapon. AND a weapon itself. when they tracked that rift? they found a goddamn weapon. oh it was defunct, but they knew what it was. did they attempt to reverse engineer it? nope. did Shepard tell alliance that TIM found that weapon so THEY could reverse engineer it? nope. how come even though it was alliance team that discovered that the rift was actually a graze from a massive weapon.. never tracked it?

now. why did we need crucible again?

WE HAD A WEAPON AND IT WAS INTRODUCED PROPERLY IN ME2. it was an awesome Checkov's gun. left unfired. just like the rest of ME2, with bulk of ME1? completely discarded in ME3.

I swear, i'm seriously starting to consider just dismissing the entire game out of existence, the way many people do with prequel trilogy to Star Wars.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 juin 2012 - 09:29 .


#22715
Flubberlub

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They obviously are trying to rebuild the mass relays... Unless you destroyed the Reapers, in which case, you're fudged.

#22716
akenn312

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Flubberlub wrote...

They obviously are trying to rebuild the mass relays... Unless you destroyed the Reapers, in which case, you're fudged.


When did the story show or say they were building Relays? Please point that moment out to us.

#22717
akenn312

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jeweledleah wrote...

funny story. I'm playing through ME2 again and get to the disabled collector vessel/derelic reaper cue in.

you know what TIM tells Shepard? that they found the target of that massive weapon. AND a weapon itself. when they tracked that rift? they found a goddamn weapon. oh it was defunct, but they knew what it was. did they attempt to reverse engineer it? nope. did Shepard tell alliance that TIM found that weapon so THEY could reverse engineer it? nope. how come even though it was alliance team that discovered that the rift was actually a graze from a massive weapon.. never tracked it?

now. why did we need crucible again?

WE HAD A WEAPON AND IT WAS INTRODUCED PROPERLY IN ME2. it was an awesome Checkov's gun. left unfired. just like the rest of ME2, with bulk of ME1? completely discarded in ME3.

I swear, i'm seriously starting to consider just dismissing the entire game out of existence, the way many people do with prequel trilogy to Star Wars.


They dumped that so they could magically make Shepard Space Jesus and the Normandy The Galactic Noah's ark. No reason to use a logical weapon that could Destroy the reapers and leave the Galaxy intact. :)

#22718
FallenAngel069

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reasons why we hate me3 ending so true!!


#22719
FallenAngel069

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bioware explain how are we suposed to continue to build the legend that is shepard if there is no single player dlc?

Modifié par FallenAngel069, 08 juin 2012 - 10:01 .


#22720
Vertigo_1

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3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Prothean VI---"The Crucible will cause a galactic dark age."  I'm not seeing this as a good thing.


Who said this?  Like, which VI, and when and where?


It's actually in "the Final Hours" and something Mac Walters said as well.


The notes from the Final Hours.



The firing of the Catalyst creates a Galactic Dark Age. This age lasts
at least 10,000 years. During this age, there is no interstellar
spaceflight. The final scene with the Stargazer and his grandson occurs
sometime after these 10,000 years.


It was something left out of the dialogue for Vendetta-original dialogue.


Uh, there's nothing like that in the Final Hourse of ME3 app (I have it).

Could you say what page you found that on?

Thanks

#22721
FallenAngel069

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me3 angry review hilarious and irritating

#22722
3DandBeyond

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Vertigo_1 wrote...

Uh, there's nothing like that in the Final Hourse of ME3 app (I have it).

Could you say what page you found that on?

Thanks


The flowchart for the game-the Prothean VI says the crucible will cause a galactic dark age. 

#22723
Vertigo_1

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Uh, there's nothing like that in the Final Hourse of ME3 app (I have it).

Could you say what page you found that on?

Thanks


The flowchart for the game-the Prothean VI says the crucible will cause a galactic dark age. 


OK, but it doesn't say it will last 10,000 years there...

#22724
MSandt

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LiarasShield wrote...

The whole thing about shepard having to die in a series about choice and actions mattering does not make any sense


and people should be able to choose wether they want a happy or sad ending depending on what they want and the choices they make

The collector base depending on what you did made everybody live or everybody die

They could've kept the forumla or player choice towards the end of the game wether people want a sad sacrifical ending with the hero dieing or a happy uplifting ending where the hero lives and gets the guy or the girl and can help rebuild the galaxy

This ending is only catering to the sad bittersweet people and the polls and organizations have shown alot that people don't just want sad or bittersweet or to be derailed in the final moments


This just goes to show that what the haters are really pissed off at is that they didn't get a generic wimpy ending.

It's a good thing that they don't hire fans to review games. Professional reviewers have been very objective about the ending compared to all the rabid fans who post their emotional rantings on Youtube.

#22725
akenn312

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Either way it wasn't put in the game so that's not the point, the point is that was their early thought process on what the Crucible would do and basically that's what happens. Relays are destroyed intergalactic travel is kaput. That's why the little kid ask's "When can I go the the stars?" Gramps is not certain of other actual alien life, he says their could be lifeforms on every planet. That at least to me says they haven't started space exploration yet or made any first contact. All they know of aliens and the Reaper menace is from the story of Shepard which if their is no intergalactic travel would only come from the Normandy Crew. Which are probably their ancestors who told them the legend of Shepard.

So yeah, the Normandy crash is for a purpose, and now this ending is really lame for me.
But maybe I can warm up to it one day.

So i'm off to go see Prometheus, if a little kid appears at the end i'm walking out.