23455 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Uh, there's nothing like that in the Final Hourse of ME3 app (I have it).

Could you say what page you found that on?

Thanks

The flowchart for the game-the Prothean VI says the crucible will cause a galactic dark age. 

OK, but it doesn't say it will last 10,000 years there...

I said part of it was from the leaked script.  I should have made it more clear but lack of sleep does that.

[3DandBeyond]

MSandt wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

The whole thing about shepard having to die in a series about choice and actions mattering does not make any sense


and people should be able to choose wether they want a happy or sad ending depending on what they want and the choices they make

The collector base depending on what you did made everybody live or everybody die

They could've kept the forumla or player choice towards the end of the game wether people want a sad sacrifical ending with the hero dieing or a happy uplifting ending where the hero lives and gets the guy or the girl and can help rebuild the galaxy

This ending is only catering to the sad bittersweet people and the polls and organizations have shown alot that people don't just want sad or bittersweet or to be derailed in the final moments

This just goes to show that what the haters are really pissed off at is that they didn't get a generic wimpy ending.

It's a good thing that they don't hire fans to review games. Professional reviewers have been very objective about the ending compared to all the rabid fans who post their emotional rantings on Youtube.

How nice you are.  Professional reviewers get paychecks from advertisers like EA through their ads.

[3DandBeyond]

akenn312 wrote...

Either way it wasn't put in the game so that's not the point, the point is that was their early thought process on what the Crucible would do and basically that's what happens. Relays are destroyed intergalactic travel is kaput. That's why the little kid ask's "When can I go the the stars?" Gramps is not certain of other actual alien life, he says their could be lifeforms on every planet. That at least to me says they haven't started space exploration yet or made any first contact. All they know of aliens and the Reaper menace is from the story of Shepard which if their is no intergalactic travel would only come from the Normandy Crew. Which are probably their ancestors who told them the legend of Shepard.

So yeah, the Normandy crash is for a purpose, and now this ending is really lame for me.
But maybe I can warm up to it one day.

So i'm off to go see Prometheus, if a little kid appears at the end i'm walking out.

Exactly.  It's clear they don't have interstellar travel.

[BearlyHere]

Redbelle wrote...

sdinc009 wrote...

Did Casey Hudson really say that they scrapped the final boss because it was too video gamey!? I'm sorry, but WTF am I playing, a sandwich!? Nope, I was playing a video game I kind of want a video game to be video gamey. Liarashields, can I get a double face palm please

Hmmmmmmmm, saaaaaandwiiiiiiiich <drooool>

This says two things to me.

1. We have a head writer, or maybe more than just the head writer, is a little too full of himself. To that I say write your novel or movie on your own dime, not on mine.

2. The HW is burned out and is extending a middle finger not only at us, but also at EA.

Look at EA's other titles. How much writing must they produce for FIFA or John Madden Football? How much more is required of a game where they actually have to produce a story. To the bean counters, it's much cheaper to throw together another MP mission based on a set that has already been created for the main campaign, and they don't have to spend anything on character generation or writing. And as a plus, they can sell a chance to open the lucky box holding  the latest big shiny boomstick. Who needs writers?

My thought is this debacle is a way for the writers to get back at the company for their unrealistic deadlines and constant corner-cutting.  And by the way,  the meme that any publicity is good publicity is dead wrong. No one who isn't a gamer is going to rush out and spend money on a game just to see what the fuss is about. They might try a "New Coke,"  but shelling out $60 for a game is another matter.

[Iakus]

MSandt wrote...

This just goes to show that what the haters are really pissed off at is that they didn't get a generic wimpy ending.

It's a good thing that they don't hire fans to review games. Professional reviewers have been very objective about the ending compared to all the rabid fans who post their emotional rantings on Youtube.

What "haters" are angry about is their choices didn't matter one bit and we were forced down one path. Yes, that includes having a "generic wimpy" ending, as you put it.  People like happy endings.  People like sad endings.  What people don't like is being railroaded down one ending when we were told our decisions mattered.

And professional revieewers are probably so meh about the issue because they're, well, professional.  They have no investment in the game or its universe or the company.  Not like the fans who actually buy the games, the dlc, the peripherals, etc. 

[Xellith]

[Vertigo_1]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Uh, there's nothing like that in the Final Hourse of ME3 app (I have it).

Could you say what page you found that on?

Thanks

The flowchart for the game-the Prothean VI says the crucible will cause a galactic dark age. 

OK, but it doesn't say it will last 10,000 years there...

I said part of it was from the leaked script.  I should have made it more clear but lack of sleep does that.

Nothing in the 'leaked script' says that...

This is where the 10,000 year thing is referenced in a text dump from gib posted on his twitter page some time ago (he does the gibbed save editors):

mod.gib.me/masseffect3/testdump.txt (search 10,000)

[biod_end002_600epilogue_loc_int.end004_finale_v_d.end004_finale_v_dlg]
1: We see a child, maybe they look a little bit asari, a little bit human. They are looking at the stars on a planet some 10,000 years after the events of the game.
2: There is an older male here as well, the child looks to the "grandfather" and asks...

So there's nothing to suggest that this 'Dark Age' lasted that long. Only that Stargazer scene is shown 10,000 years after the events of ME3

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 08 juin 2012 - 11:45 .

[jeweledleah]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Uh, there's nothing like that in the Final Hourse of ME3 app (I have it).

Could you say what page you found that on?

Thanks

The flowchart for the game-the Prothean VI says the crucible will cause a galactic dark age. 

OK, but it doesn't say it will last 10,000 years there...

I said part of it was from the leaked script.  I should have made it more clear but lack of sleep does that.

Nothing in the 'leaked script' says that...

This is where the 10,000 year thing is referenced in a text dump from gib posted on his twitter page some time ago (he does the gibbed save editors):

mod.gib.me/masseffect3/testdump.txt (search 10,000)

[biod_end002_600epilogue_loc_int.end004_finale_v_d.end004_finale_v_dlg]
1: We see a child, maybe they look a little bit asari, a little bit human. They are looking at the stars on a planet some 10,000 years after the events of the game.
2: There is an older male here as well, the child looks to the "grandfather" and asks...

So there's nothing to suggest that this 'Dark Age' lasted that long. Only that Stargazer scene is shown 10,000 years after the events of ME3

concidering that they are not sure about the aliens existing or what kind of aliens, and they will go to the stars... some day?  i'm thinking implication is clear that space travel was NOT happening during those 10k years.

so assuming the victory fleet survived, they are still stranded and our choices still don't matter.

this next section is not a reply to a quoted post.
about this whole professional critics vs the fans debate.  fans are the ones that pay to play the games.  fans are the ones who spend money on various tie in merchandise.  critics?  they get that stuff for free and the more favorable the reviews, the more likely they are to keep getting this free swag in a future.
so i disagree about critics being unbiased.  they are very biased.  I also disagree about fan opinion not counting. you do not bite the hand that feeds you if you want it to keep feeding you.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 juin 2012 - 11:57 .

[BlueStorm83]

MSandt wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

The whole thing about shepard having to die in a series about choice and actions mattering does not make any sense


and people should be able to choose wether they want a happy or sad ending depending on what they want and the choices they make

The collector base depending on what you did made everybody live or everybody die

They could've kept the forumla or player choice towards the end of the game wether people want a sad sacrifical ending with the hero dieing or a happy uplifting ending where the hero lives and gets the guy or the girl and can help rebuild the galaxy

This ending is only catering to the sad bittersweet people and the polls and organizations have shown alot that people don't just want sad or bittersweet or to be derailed in the final moments

This just goes to show that what the haters are really pissed off at is that they didn't get a generic wimpy ending.

It's a good thing that they don't hire fans to review games. Professional reviewers have been very objective about the ending compared to all the rabid fans who post their emotional rantings on Youtube.

---  Yeah, because LiarasShield TOTALLY didn't say that it should be about player choice or the actions they've taken.

[3DandBeyond]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Nothing in the 'leaked script' says that...

This is where the 10,000 year thing is referenced in a text dump from gib posted on his twitter page some time ago (he does the gibbed save editors):

mod.gib.me/masseffect3/testdump.txt (search 10,000)

[biod_end002_600epilogue_loc_int.end004_finale_v_d.end004_finale_v_dlg]
1: We see a child, maybe they look a little bit asari, a little bit human. They are looking at the stars on a planet some 10,000 years after the events of the game.
2: There is an older male here as well, the child looks to the "grandfather" and asks...

So there's nothing to suggest that this 'Dark Age' lasted that long. Only that Stargazer scene is shown 10,000 years after the events of ME3

Ok, my mistake and I did mean to correct that, but I was making dinner and eating.  Pardon me.  I misspoke.  It was in the text dump, but the Final Hours does say the crucible caused a galactic dark age and the Stargazer's words indicate they do not have interstellar travel.

What it still boils down to is they considered (from the final hours-prothean VI from the flowchart) the crucible caused a galactic dark age.
The stargazer scene is 10k in the future and the stargazer has no knowledge of what life is like on planets in other star systems in the galaxy which apparently means they do not have interstellar travel.
This was their original intent.

Which is what I said or rather should have said.  I mixed up some of the parts, but essentially this is it in a nutshell.  Sorry for anything misleading there.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 09 juin 2012 - 12:36 .

[BlueStorm83]

--- At the very least, a Dark Age has to last long enough to be called an Age (And be bleak enough to be called Dark, for that matter.)

10 years isn't an age. 100 years? Maybe. Our Dark ages, the Medieval period, lasted from around 460 AD to 1000 AD, so a that sets a nice precedent. And even 100 years of the fleets stranded on Earth... that blows.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- At the very least, a Dark Age has to last long enough to be called an Age (And be bleak enough to be called Dark, for that matter.)

10 years isn't an age. 100 years? Maybe. Our Dark ages, the Medieval period, lasted from around 460 AD to 1000 AD, so a that sets a nice precedent. And even 100 years of the fleets stranded on Earth... that blows.

I made a leap in concluding the dark age lasted10k years, but I think if they don't have interstellar travel in 10k years, things must have been bleak.

[Andy the Black]

I agree there should be a Shep lives option. However, and I think I might have said this before, I don't think it should be a consequence free option or be available for those who didn't put in the hard miles. Maybe with max galactic readiness you can tell the catalyst to blow it out his hole, but doing so means the galactic fleet almosts get wiped out taking on the reapers. Or maybe it's lke Fallout 3's original ending, you can survive but only if you let Lyons take the hit. I feel that Mass Effect is a game about choice, but there needs to be consequence to that choice otherwise their meaningless.

Modifié par Andy the Black, 09 juin 2012 - 01:05 .

[AlexPorto111]

Wow,i was just listening to the From The Wreckage soundtrack from ME1,and,this ost would be perfect to show Shepard alive at the end of ME3,getting up from the wreckage(pun intended) and his reunion with the crew and his LI.It would be a great scene.

[BlueStorm83]

Andy the Black wrote...

I agree there should be a Shep lives option. However, and I think I might have said this before, I don't think it should be a consequence free option or be available for those who didn't put in the hard miles. Maybe with max galactic readiness you can tell the catalyst to blow it out his hole, but doing so means the galactic fleet almosts get wiped out taking on the reapers. Or maybe it's lke Fallout 3's original ending, you can survive but only if you let Lyons take the hit. I feel that Mass Effect is a game about choice, but there needs to be consequence to that choice otherwise their meaningless.

---  I'd take the "Fight it out at great, GREAT cost" option.  Anything else is, to me, just giving in to the demands of what's really the Galaxy's first Terrorist.  And as George W. Bush always said, "If ya'll don't re-electorize me, then the Turrrrrists win."

[3DandBeyond]

Anyone ever see Battle: Los Angeles? Not exactly a blockbuster, but the way they did it was great. It could have ended after they got the control center, but what they did after was well done.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

I agree there should be a Shep lives option. However, and I think I might have said this before, I don't think it should be a consequence free option or be available for those who didn't put in the hard miles. Maybe with max galactic readiness you can tell the catalyst to blow it out his hole, but doing so means the galactic fleet almosts get wiped out taking on the reapers. Or maybe it's lke Fallout 3's original ending, you can survive but only if you let Lyons take the hit. I feel that Mass Effect is a game about choice, but there needs to be consequence to that choice otherwise their meaningless.

---  I'd take the "Fight it out at great, GREAT cost" option.  Anything else is, to me, just giving in to the demands of what's really the Galaxy's first Terrorist.  And as George W. Bush always said, "If ya'll don't re-electorize me, then the Turrrrrists win."

I'm pretty sure there were consequences all along the way, but I do think it shouldn't be given to players.  I'd think if you don't work hard enough, there should be a real "reapers win" ending, not a mission failure. 

Kind of like the end of ME2 but on a bigger scale. 

[Voodoo-j]

Xellith wrote...

That about sums it up.

[Benchpress610]

jeweledleah wrote...
concidering that they are not sure about the aliens existing or what kind of aliens, and they will go to the stars... some day?  i'm thinking implication is clear that space travel was NOT happening during those 10k years.

so assuming the victory fleet survived, they are still stranded and our choices still don't matter.

this next section is not a reply to a quoted post.
about this whole professional critics vs the fans debate.  fans are the ones that pay to play the games.  fans are the ones who spend money on various tie in merchandise.  critics?  they get that stuff for free and the more favorable the reviews, the more likely they are to keep getting this free swag in a future.
so i disagree about critics being unbiased.  they are very biased.  I also disagree about fan opinion not counting. you do not bite the hand that feeds you if you want it to keep feeding you.

Wow jeweledleah, welcome back!...as always sharp as a razor…


About the “professional critics”, who are these characters? They are just writers with failed careers seating in judgment of other writers with better luck and hoping to get hired for the next big project. Yeah…I will do care about the opinion of these clowns…

Modifié par Benchpress610, 09 juin 2012 - 02:47 .

[Andy the Black]

3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

I agree there should be a Shep lives option. However, and I think I might have said this before, I don't think it should be a consequence free option or be available for those who didn't put in the hard miles. Maybe with max galactic readiness you can tell the catalyst to blow it out his hole, but doing so means the galactic fleet almosts get wiped out taking on the reapers. Or maybe it's lke Fallout 3's original ending, you can survive but only if you let Lyons take the hit. I feel that Mass Effect is a game about choice, but there needs to be consequence to that choice otherwise their meaningless.

---  I'd take the "Fight it out at great, GREAT cost" option.  Anything else is, to me, just giving in to the demands of what's really the Galaxy's first Terrorist.  And as George W. Bush always said, "If ya'll don't re-electorize me, then the Turrrrrists win."

I'm pretty sure there were consequences all along the way, but I do think it shouldn't be given to players.  I'd think if you don't work hard enough, there should be a real "reapers win" ending, not a mission failure. 

Kind of like the end of ME2 but on a bigger scale. 

Well, of course there are consequences, not as many as one hoped for the ending as it is, but I'm referring to the hypothetical 'Shepard lives' chioce. I feel that if such a choice was given to the player that it should have a heavy price attached to it, such as the death of a LI or the near annihilation of the galactic fleet. I feel giving players a 'free' Shep lives choice, even if it's only for those who got max ems, would somehow cheepen said chioce and that Shep's final choice in the game should be the hardest.

Also, I agree there should be a ' the reapers win' ending. Hell, if I had my way there would be a 'the reapers win go back and play the whole trilogy again 'till you get it right' ending .

Modifié par Andy the Black, 09 juin 2012 - 03:08 .

[3DandBeyond]

Andy the Black wrote...

Well, of course there are consequences, not as many as one hoped for the ending as it is, but I'm referring to the hypothetical 'Shepard lives' chioce. I feel that if such a choice was given to the player that it should have a heavy price attached to it, such as the death of a LI or the near annihilation of the galactic fleet. I feel giving players a 'free' Shep lives choice, even if it's only for those who got max ems, would somehow cheepen said chioce and that Shep's final choice in the game should be the hardest.

Also, I agree there should be a ' the reapers win' ending. Hell, if I had my way there would be a 'the reapers win go back and play the whole trilogy again 'till you get it right' ending .

Yes, I agree with that if the ending was really well done and decisions and all mattered-if you messed up that bad, then there's no easy do over. 

And I agree as to consequences.  I do think as it is there's no corollary between things you do and what can happen, other than really bad and supposedly, gasp, good.

MP shouldn't matter as far as EMS and EMS should really have points for war assets that relate to things in some meaningful way.  It should be the quality of choices and not just how much stuff you found while avoiding the reaper tag game.  Why for instance are some things like whole teams of people worth the same as or just a little more than one person?  There's no rhyme or reason for the war asset amount given per asset and I really hate the whole EMS thing anyway.

I keep saying it, but why for instance once you get a certain EMS score, does it say you have an even chance of winning?  I've said it before, if that's the case then I'd rather take my chances there than make any choice out of the 3.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 09 juin 2012 - 04:44 .

[3DandBeyond]

I'm going to post this here, because someone in another thread said it should be here.
I wrote it in kind of defense of a happy ending, though I really just mean all different kinds of endings should be possible, happy, sad, really bad, included and even the reapers win kind.

Anyway, this is what I said:


The problem with far too many people today is they've lost their sense of humor or lack a sense of wonderment in some ways.

Unfortunately what this means is they see some things like happy endings as childish, and apparently think misery must exist everywhere because that's life. Well, screw that. I get enough life in real life.

I like my art light and fun, not dark and introspective and morose. I like my entertainment to be entertaining, not to cause my brain to have to do backflips in order to figure out the hero killed himself because his prize tomatoes had no motivation. Or his girlfriend loved the lint ball she pulled out of the dryer better than him.

I like to have rational discussions over thoughtful issues, but I tend to like those issues to actually have some real meaning and not to be some symbolism for why life began as a ham sandwich.

I think the game lent itself to having it all and pleasing everybody. But if someone wanted some dark sacrificial meaningful ending, they didn't get it. If they think they did, then it's because they don't want to appear dumb because they heard it was intellectual.

If someone wanted bittersweet, well they may have gotten a lot of bitter, but dang it if I can locate the sweet.

In truth, the game already had sacrificial and dark and sad, all it needed was some varied endings. Not the slow motion sad sack that vaguely resembled Shepard, but no longer acted like Shepard and that no longer was player controlled, but was controlled by the devs.

People see hero lives endings as sappy, immature, and cliche. Gee, the ending we got was illogical, irrational, and moronic and seems very much like someone's pet monkey wrote it-that about covers immature. And I am pretty sure that Joker in the Garden of Eden scene and the stargazer tells a bedtime story was more than sappy. So, cliche-well, Deus ex, shaggy god, space jesus, MacGuffin Crucible, this ending is like someone couldn't get enough cliches together at one time and in the last few minutes of one game. Was there a contest to see just how many cliches could be used?

Ok, this is over the top nasty sounding. But, the depth of my hatred for the ending exists because of the height of the love I had for these games and the characters.

Do I want a happy ending? Damn straight I do. Shepard has been through enough. Shepard never had a life. Shepard consistently put all the things s/he wanted in the background to work to get ungrateful people to get together and help save themselves. Shepard's teammates also sacrificed and many of them found redemption in the lessons Shepard taught them along the way. Others just became alive and found their hearts.

So now people like to rip apart others like me that say enough is enough. It isn't bad enough that Shepard had to die once (no matter what you think of that ME2 scene), in sacrifice for the life of a friend. It isn't bad enough that Shepard trudged through crap, continually fought the sneers of others who said s/he was crazy or mistaken or delusional or that Shepard was detained due to a no win situation. It isn't bad enough that Shepard was constantly bruised, beaten, shot at, dropped, pushed, hated, discarded, disregarded, ignored, and ridiculed all in the quest to get people to see that their lives were in danger. Nope, people think the only authentic, adult way to end this game is for Shepard's body to be ripped apart by reaper teeth or blown to smithereens in some ultimate act of sacrifice. Why? Because.

Yeah, sad and sacrificial is really artistic and just what everyone wants. That's why all fairy tales end with, "and they all lived unhappily ever after." And that's why the most successful movies of all time almost always have at least a partially happy ending.

Want sad and sacrificial? Watch the news, write to a service man or woman, no matter your country. Volunteer for the Red Cross or whatever such organization is in your own country. Go look and see what real pain and sacrifice looks like and then tell me it's artistic. This is a game. Happy should be a possibility.

[KiwiQuiche]

Well, I have to give Bioware credit where it is due; I've never experience a company kill its own game trilogy in such an epic fail.

It's incredibly impressive...in a bittersweet way.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 09 juin 2012 - 07:05 .

[Iecerint]

Modifié par Iecerint, 09 juin 2012 - 07:22 .

[Archonsg]

iakus wrote...

MSandt wrote...

This just goes to show that what the haters are really pissed off at is that they didn't get a generic wimpy ending.

It's a good thing that they don't hire fans to review games. Professional reviewers have been very objective about the ending compared to all the rabid fans who post their emotional rantings on Youtube.

What "haters" are angry about is their choices didn't matter one bit and we were forced down one path. Yes, that includes having a "generic wimpy" ending, as you put it. People like happy endings. People like sad endings. What people don't like is being railroaded down one ending when we were told our decisions mattered.

And professional revieewers are probably so meh about the issue because they're, well, professional. They have no investment in the game or its universe or the company. Not like the fans who actually buy the games, the dlc, the peripherals, etc.

Objective like having one of their own featured in the game.
I can see how that can be objective.
Oh wait, she's not a professional journalist / reviewer. 

Bottom line.
Not a single professional reviewer from any of the major gaming sites mentioned anything at all about the ending, considering that this is the cap stone for the series, one would think that a reviewer would gush all over how the game ends. But no, every single one as if by rote, either skipped that part entirely or vaguely mentions that it "might not make everyone happy" which is almost word for word, paraphrased from Casey Hudson's own statement.

In which case you have to wonder, did they even play to the end or if they did why not say "Reaching the end made 5 years of playing 3 games, worth it!"
You'd think this would definitely please their advertisers and thus ensure that their publication / site garners further patronage yes?

So what does that tells you?

1) Most did not play to the end.

2) Those who did, couldn't say how bad it was but kept it vague

3) All of them, didn't give a true review to their readers for fear of losing advertising patronage / product embargo (no more freebies or invitation to press events)

4) Further muddied the waters by not understanding the very medium that they were covering, that for a choice based game series such as Mass Effect, is not like a movie where the writer can just force feed ONE ending theme and the audience has to like it, take it or leave it. Then insult those who chose to "leave it" by calling their readers / customers "whiners / entitled"

A simple question to judge if these "professional reviewers" were honest, is would ask whether they wrote based on their own play experience or did they just repeat ad nauseam PR material. Did they gave an indication of whether the game not just by itself but as the finale of a three-part series, do justice to the series?

Would it be surprising that the answer is no, not all?

So....

Xellith wrote...

 



And this :

Modifié par Archonsg, 09 juin 2012 - 08:24 .