23455 réponses à ce sujet

[akenn312]

BearlyHere wrote...

akenn312 wrote...

Freaksh0w56 wrote...

 Everyone who thinks the ending sucks. Is supposed to think it sucks. Just wait till we get more dlc. By the end of all this we will be blown away. Have some faith in bioware they won't disappoint. Prometheus was terrible. 

Oh really? So a game that has to make a new DLC to clarify and fix everything they messed up is just so much better than a movie sticking with the theme of its predecessors and not putting out some forced story? Actually I hope you are right I would love to see Bioware do something that blows us away. But I digress, stories that make characters disappear out of thin air and force in little light children so they can make a galactic Noah's ark are way better than a gritty sci-fi horror movie that centers on not opening pandoras box and not paying god. We just need a Moses joker to make our lives better. Lets make sure he walks around with two pads of the Shepard commandments. EDI can play the galactic virgin Mary. What is going on with appreciation with good Sci-fi anymore?

I still haven't seen any evidence they're going to "fix" anything. My fear is that we'll get a slideshow epilogue like they have used on many other games. It sounds like to me that they're still banking on capturing the MP market. I'll bet that without a real change to the ending or at least options,  that they're going to see a lot of players like Archonsg abandon MP. I know I haven't been back to it since I finished my last playthrough. 

@Archonsg: You apparently are a MP god. I don't feel so bad about my puny collection after seeing Bubbles' multiplayer manifest.

Good point, I don't think they have to abandon multi-player. Why not do both? You can't have a good multiplayer experience and a single player experience? Give the single players a deep story with various endings and you can still tie in MP with it. Again i'm going off point here but the COD story is not all that bad. The end gives the single player people at least a good part of closure at the end actually in COD multi-player player has no effect on the single player campaign. Mass Effect 3 doing this is just frustrating, to keep my 100% readiness I have to either playMP or pay for the Mass Effect Galaxy at war app on iPhone to keep it up. I'm not against the app it is actually kinda cool, but to say they did all this for some deep meaning is crazy. 


Mass Effect & Mass Efect 2 were great stand alone games, even if they had DLC content, without it you got a great experience playing single player. If multi-player is where they want to take it later on I'm cool with that, I will make that choice later but I don't feel throwing it in at the last game and selling out the cannon of the original story is worth it. Mass Effect 2 was even with the plot controversy one of the best third person/Role paying games. The majority of fans were cool with it. Now this version is just a multiplayer driven piece of drivel. Catalyst or no all the game really gives you really now is the push to go to multi-player. Go to the website learn what the new multiplayer weekend challenge is and try to get the most kills to quickly promote characters that don't impact the single player story wise to get that EMS up. Even though the Crucible gets made no matter what.

That's not what makes Mass Effect good. It's the Squad mates, the conversations,  it's the message and its the single player RPG choices that makes Mass Effect stand out. 

Again, I point out to Bioware and the pro-enders, why is having a variety of endings more than three a bad thing? Why is three choices which really boil down to one, is the best conclusion to the Mass Effect universe? Unless Bioware has something hidden. I won't see any other endings than Destroy, Synthesis or Control. It's only three not 16.


Basically that is against everything the mass Effect story that they were telling was trying to convince me of. I still have a light of hope that after all these thread posts Bioware can possibly see that it's not just a hate on a happy ending, but a want…no a need from what they started to see variety in the endings. If your going to put all your cards in Multiplayer now please give us a better goodbye with single player. Give us that last great epilogue and not some pot bellied kid saying that we need to turn into space jesus no matter what. 

Modifié par akenn312, 10 juin 2012 - 03:58 .

[Iakus]

BearlyHere wrote...

I still haven't seen any evidence they're going to "fix" anything. My fear is that we'll get a slideshow epilogue like they have used on many other games. It sounds like to me that they're still banking on capturing the MP market. I'll bet that without a real change to the ending or at least options,  that they're going to see a lot of players like Archonsg abandon MP. I know I haven't been back to it since I finished my last playthrough. 

@Archonsg: You apparently are a MP god. I don't feel so bad about my puny collection after seeing Bubbles' multiplayer manifest.

Given all teh VAs that seem to be coming back and the sheer length of time this is taking, I don't think that it's going to be just epilogue slides.  Though it may incorporate them as well.

But like you, I have doubts that anything will be "fixed".  Since nothing's going to be changed.  What we see in the original endings is still what actually happened.

[Redbelle]

Achaewa wrote...

I'm wondering if the extendec cut is just meant to add cutscenes and epilogue scenes to the ending. Will it then just be of how our character will live on the planet they stranded on? Cause that would be pretty stupid.

Anyway correct me if i'm wrong :-)

This may be wishful thinking on my part but when I read how the ending is going to be added to, I think the phrasing they use supports, non interactive cutscenes, and interactive game dialogue segments. I may be wrong but if it was just cutscenes they were adding they could have just said so and left it at that.

[Redbelle]

Crysis I wrote...

ALL i want is harbinger to at least say one line in the game, BIOWARE please add a sentence when harbinger is shooting at sheperd or something.

"This Hurts You".

Who would win in a contest of ego's? Harbinger from ME2 or Megatron from Transformers Prime

Now who would win in an egotest with Harby from ME3 and Megatron?

Harby desperately needs more dialogue. He is the front man of the Reapers. It's like someone flipped a switch and turned off his prancing 'I'm a big scary Reaper' mojo.

.........Please don't tell Harby I said that. He is a big scary Reaper after all and might hurt me!!!

Modifié par Redbelle, 10 juin 2012 - 08:04 .

[ArthurVon]

F U Bioware for ruining an epic game like Mass Effect 3 with that fake trolling "ending". F U!! hope no ones will buy your next games

[Archonsg]

Redbelle wrote...

Achaewa wrote...

I'm wondering if the extendec cut is just meant to add cutscenes and epilogue scenes to the ending. Will it then just be of how our character will live on the planet they stranded on? Cause that would be pretty stupid.

Anyway correct me if i'm wrong :-)

This may be wishful thinking on my part but when I read how the ending is going to be added to, I think the phrasing they use supports, non interactive cutscenes, and interactive game dialogue segments. I may be wrong but if it was just cutscenes they were adding they could have just said so and left it at that.

They did.
The said that they won't do any new endings.
They also did say that it will only be cut scenes for clarity, and an epilogue for closure.

Which is why, some of us were trying to point out that this isn't what was generally asked for, nor the ending such as it was, is based on firm foundations. Foundation that 2.9 parts of the series had laid.
Unfortunately, whether it is because they choose to, or are mandated to ignore so many objective and TRUE reviews of the flaws that the last game, the cap stone for the series, in plot and execution, they went ahead anyways, sticking to their guns defending an ending that leaves a good portion of their customers angry and sad.

Sad because, fans see all their emotional investment, stomped on, then discarded like so much rubbish.

Angry because if like myself, they felt cheated since we were told right from the beginning of Mass Effect 1, that this series would use all our actions and decisions to conclude in an ending that gave those actions and decisions that spanned 5 years, meaning.
More importantly, we were told that we would have different and multiple endings.

But none of this came to pass.
Instead we have the "dead messiah through space magic" theme forced down our throat.
Instead we have ONE, count it, ONE ending where Shepard is forced to commit suicide because that is the "artistic" vision.

I am sorry but I do not condone forced suicides.

I'll wait till I see the EC DLC, I love the Mass Effect world too much not to give it that, but as far as my trust and goodwill towards EA/Bioware is concerned, it's as dead as personality we all knew as Shepard.

Modifié par Archonsg, 10 juin 2012 - 08:37 .

[Grubas]

So far its the fans who provided a decent amount of better endings, story-wise and gameplay wise and regarding our decisions.
Bioware has a hard time competing with it.

Any one care to take a look at the gameplay draft for priority:earth in my signature?

[DarkShadow]

Grubas wrote...
Any one care to take a look at the gameplay draft for priority:earth in my signature?

I did, and I thought it was another awesome, better ending idea. Seriously, it's like EVERY. SINGLE. USER. on these forums is able to create a better ending then Bioware.

However, a small tip, you should use the URL tags differently, a cryptic link like yours usually stops people from checking it. Better do it like I did in my signature: Priority: Earth Gameplay Draft

[BlueStorm83]

Freaksh0w56 wrote...

 Everyone who thinks the ending sucks. Is supposed to think it sucks. Just wait till we get more dlc. By the end of all this we will be blown away. Have some faith in bioware they won't disappoint. Prometheus was terrible. 

---  Faith?  Sir, you're confusing a company, which can be held to standards based upon their advertising, with a deity, who is above reproach.

Bioware ****ed up.  To not call them on it does thema  disservice; if a person wanders into a highway, you say, "Get out of the highway, moron, you'll DIE!"  If a company makes a **** decision that will cost them money and fans, you say "Fix this, before people don't want to buy your products anymore!"

--- Also, let me clean up that quote for you, you seem to have misspelled a few words. 

Freaksh0w56 wrote...

 Everyone who Has legitimate grievances against an ending that did not deliver on advertised promises, made no sense in the greater narrative, and eschewed the standards of good writing:. Is supposed to think it sucks because it does. Just wait till we need to pay for more dlc. By
the end of all this we would be blown away if we were willing to take a chance on a company that failed us so critically at such an important moment. Have some faith in bioware
they might disappoint. I haven't seen Promethius yet. 

Modifié par BlueStorm83, 10 juin 2012 - 01:09 .

[BlueStorm83]

---  I was thinking this morning about what the Extended Cut is.  Not what it will be, but its core nature.  It's a gamble.

They're taking the wager that the backlash can be assuaged to tolerable levels with small work, recording new Dialogue and using existing models for a cutscene, without needing to write and program any new gameplay.  Why make Broken Steel when you can instead queue up a B-roll recording of pre-existing footage, right?

And I can understand why they're doing that; it's all about the Benjamins.  That's not a condemnation, that's just me understanding the nature of the beast.  Businesses are there to make money.  Making Games is an incident of that function (used to be the other way around, I watched the video that I think 3D posted.  Might be wrong, if so, sorry real poster.)  At the moment, they think that Extended Cut will bring in the most potential money while spending the least actual money.  But this isn't true.  And I'll show you why.

When you consider the cost that it would be to actually remake the end of the game with all the choices and gameplay and narrative that doesn't pee in your lemonade, that would be kinda expensive, right?  I mean, let's say that the total game time would be, like, 30 minutes of gameplay and dialogue and all that.  The game took me 48 hours to get to the end.  It was in development for like 2 years, right?  Paying everyone's salaries?  It would take months to get new content made up.  Hell, it's already taking months for this Extended Cut.  That's a big investment to make current angry fans not angry.  And it's not even a sure thing (from a business perspective, not from a GAMER perspective.)

So let me possible stab myself in the back here:  Broken Steel was a 20 dollar DLC.  It was a lot more than just a new ending, it had new game AFTER the fact.  To fix the current MESS at the end of Mass Effect 3 we'd need a little game before the ending, as well as new endings based on variables that we've all performed.  I'd imagine its value being 10 to 15 dollars.  I'd pay half of it, provided that they apologize for the whole debacle.  As long as EA eats SOME of the cost, I'd eat the other half.  They break even, I'm down, like, 7 bucks, but I get the ending that we all deserved, and more importantly, I can once again actually enjoy a series that I've enjoyed and touted as a PINACLE of gaming for 6 to 7 years.

This of course would change my mindset, and I'd once again be willing to buy future BioWare games, buy MORE DLC for Mass Effect 3, and in the long run make BioWare and EA more profit; again, I'm not against you companies out there making money, but you have to earn it, just like I do when I go to work.

If someone says to me, "I want a perennial that flowers in early summer and will grow in the shade," I say, "You need some Astilbe!  Let me grab you a couple of those!"  I don't say, "I have what you need," but then fill their trunk with Geraniums, which are annuals that need full sun and bloom starting in the beginning of spring.  And when they protest that, I don't go, "Look, you've enjoyed shopping here in the past, and CLEARLY you don't UNDERSTAND Geraniums!  Don't you threaten to ABANDON my shop!  Sit here and wait for a few months, during which I will ignore your questions, and I'll release a video where I EXPLAIN Geraniums to you."  Because then I'd 1) lose customers and 2) Look like an INSANE ****.

The other day, we were going over the Landscaping Division's records, and it appeared that someone owed us 1700 dollars from over a year ago.  Wow.  We called him up and he fast-talked and promised to come down and pay and blah blah blah.  Clearly he owed us what we and he had agreed upon, based upon prior trends of landscaping and payment as recompense.  When we didn't get what we were promised for our service, it was our right and duty to pursue what we were owed.  If BioWare had delivered on Mass Effect 3 in all their promises and trends and advertising, and we paid for it with Monopoly Money, I'd be right now on the "Pay BioWare what you owe them, you bastards!" thread, on BioWare's side.  I don't hate the company, I don't hate the games, I don't hate capitalism, I don't hate the people who made the game, I don't even hate Casey Hudson and Mac Walters who all evidence points to are the exclusive two who did... THIS.  What I hate is that there is a CLEAR inequity between Requested service and RECIEVED service, and there's little to no effort to rectify it.

That said, those two should be excused from writing story and plot to any game in the future: clearly they do not understand story structure or cliche.

[3DandBeyond]

Auckmid wrote...

ME3 was a great game, and the people who are saying that the ending ruined the game for them are just a vocal minority. However, I have found the almost all of my friends were disapointed with the ending, not so much because of the idea behind the endings, but because of...
 

I don't believe they are a vocal minority or Bioware would not see the need for the EC-that costs money that they have no idea if they will recoup, but it indicates they are worried.  Your own anecdotal evidence shows otherwise.  Almost all of your friends find fault with it.

Even if I support your theory, in actuality the most vocal groups within any sort of larger grouping are the ones most likely to act.  That means in politics, the louder voices are most likely to vote.  In consumer groups, the loudest groups are those most likely to vote with their money.

With ME, the loudest voices are those that feel the most betrayed by ME3's endings and the devs.  They represent the most fervent fans, those that would buy and have bought everything ME.  They also drive the hype for sales.  They pre-ordered games, which is used by companies to drum up first week sales.  Then, companies use these sales figures to further hype the game, by showing its success.  These loud people are also the ones that buy multiple copies of games, wanting to play on the PC and xbox, and they tell everyone that plays games to buy it.  Companies, if they are smart, never want to lose the most vocal group, even if it is a minority.

It's also true that the most vocal customers are a company's best friends, even if they don't like what a company has done.  Silent customers tell them nothing and if unhappy, they just go away.  Vocal ones help companies see what they've done wrong or right, because they tell them.  That doesn't mean a company changes things because loud customers said to, but it allows them to take another look.

I don't agree that this is a vocal minority.  I believe we are vocal, but no company will ever spend money to change something they think they've done well and that they are satisfied with on the basis of a few loud customers.  They instead will work with the customers to change perceptions and will explain why they can't change the product they are selling and why they think it's great as is.  Nothing in that last sentence has happened.  We know they are doing something to the ending, and we know they think what they did is great, but they have done nothing to say why they can't change it, nor have they explained why they think it is just great as is.  They are spending money to appease fans in some way.  And companies don't do this for no reason.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 10 juin 2012 - 02:22 .

[Khran1505]

Can we just get a date for the DLC? They claim sometime in summer which we are already in and usually we'd have a date right about now.

[BlueStorm83]

---  With TV, Networks treat every ONE letter that's written to complain about something as 1,000 dissatisfied people, under their research that suggests that 999 people will run the range of mildly displeased through annoyed to disgusted and will never watch that show again, and ONE will be so incensed that they have to write in about it.  That's how they get their money, after all.  Ratings drive advertising, which drives sponsorship, which is a paid service.

If the uproar is large enough that sites cover the controversy, REGARDLESS of if the sites themselves are pro-ending or anti-ending, that means that a company that makes money will take notice.

Also, to the dude who says that it's a Minority that is dissatisfied, but then says that Most of his friends didn't like the ending...

You've contradicted yourself.  Most is Majority.  Let's play a game here.  Assume you have six friends.  If MOST of them are dissatisfied with the ending, that means at least 4 of your friends are dissatisfied.  Add you in as a pro-ending player.  That's 4 who are dissatisfied, 3 who are satisfied.  A Majority dislikes the ending.

Of me and MY friends, 100% agree: Shepard finding a big red "Reapers Go Away!" button, and pressing it, would have been a better ending.  Putting aside the false advertising, product not fit for purpose, incomplete single player viability, on-the-disc PAID content... that's still not only a Majority of people who are dissatisfied, that's a Totality.

---  I have seen review sites tout the ending as incredible and appropriate and not in any way broken: Nonsense.  But I can dismiss them because these same review sites have before been dead wrong about games that were terrible that they said were good.  I'm sure we all remember the Kain and Lynch review fiasco.

I have seen people who insist that the endings made perfect sense, but then rather than explain why they begin to troll around here.

And then I've seen Holger who agrees that the endings could have and maybe even should have been better and make more sense, but who can accept the endings as they are and not be so incensed by it all as I am.

Keep in mind, this thread isn't "Come here to hate the ending."  This thread is "Discuss the endings."  The majority of people here agree that the ending is broken, bad, inappropriate, incongrouous with the game's themes, etc etc.  Not the majority of POSTS, but the majority of People.  When new names pop up, take their first post and their opinion on it.  Most say it's a huge disappointment.  One dude, a serviceman if I remember correctly, was so disheartened because his Shepard was made nearly 100% in his own image, but then at the end was ripped from his own personality and forced into three options that this player would never choose.  Same for me, though my Shepard is made in my own image if I was a muscular space soldier and not a 300 pound fatso (Down to 225 pound fatso, WOOO!) when I made him.

---  And yes, as 3D says, vocality outweighs numbers when it comes to change and driving force.  Look at the American Revolution.  Britain outnumbered us, they had better and more technology, and they had more money.  But we had shrieking madmen tossing tea into the ocean and hiding in trees with guns, who were damn tired of a bad situation.  If you get up and scream loud enough, people start to hear you.

[BlueStorm83]

Khran1505 wrote...

Can we just get a date for the DLC? They claim sometime in summer which we are already in and usually we'd have a date right about now.

They don't answer us, they avoid our questions, they don't care to actually have a dialogue with their customers.

They just want us to tell them how to make Dragon Age 3 so they'll take our money more efficiently.

[Lonecatt]

BlueStorm83 wrote...


I have seen people who insist that the endings made perfect sense, but then rather than explain why they begin to troll around here.

And then I've seen Holger who agrees that the endings could have and maybe even should have been better and make more sense, but who can accept the endings as they are and not be so incensed by it all as I am.

The only way I've been able to make sense of the ending is watching the Indoctrination www.youtube.com/watch Video on Youtube that I'm sure most if not everyone on here has now watched.  I hope when Bioware releases their updated version of the ending it answers a few questions and doesn't leave us hanging again.

The other thing other than the ending that upsets me is the fact you must do Multiplayer to get the 'best' possible ending, and a lot of it!  The first time I finished the game I didn't touch MP and I only had 50% readiness which really irritates me.  Don't force me to play MP in order to make the SP aspect better!

[Voodoo-j]

Auckmid wrote...

ME3 was a great game, and the people who are saying that the ending ruined the game for them are just a vocal minority. However, I have found the almost all of my friends were disapointed with the ending, not so much because of the idea behind the endings, but because of...
 

1) The lack of control over the ending sequence.

The ME2 ending realy exceeded all of my expectations. The way that all your choices made throughout the game, and the choices you make during the suicide mission decided who lived, who died, and what the situation was going into ME3. After the positve feedback for the way that the suicide mission caused a solid yet simple plot to come together in such a great way, I thought that the very last mission to take back earth would take a similar aproach. However, while this is probably the most minor of my points, I did feel like the final mission lacked enough epicness, and no matter what, you would be streamlined into the same situation at the end.

2)) The lack of concequence.

One of the greatest things about ME is the fact that desicions which you make (or don't make) often come back to haunt you down the road. Therefore, one of my greatest disapointments with the ending is that your past desicions don't seem to matter that much. With the exception of the Ilusive Man and Anderson scene, and the fact that your EMS will make some difference in how the game ends, you still end up with the same dilema, and the same endings. I would have liked it if some of your choices did more then change a number.

3) The lack of diversity between the endings.

This is the big one, which everyone I know can agree with. In the destroy ending, the reapers die (I was sad that the geth also had to die in this ending), while the reapers just leave in the control and synthesis endings. If you have a high EMS, the cruicible doesn't damage earth, while it devastates or destroys earth when you have a low EMS. Also, the 3 different choices cause different coloured lazers... That preaty much sums up the major differences between the endings.


When I heard that there would be an "Extended Cut" DLC, I was very excited, and I hope that it can adress the above issues in the following way...

1) Modify the endings
 
This is realy the main thing I want. While the "Top 10 reasons we hate ME3's ending" video was quite extreamist, it does talk about how the guy was expecting a renagage interupt in which you can shoot the Catalyst. That idea actualy sounded extreamly appealing, not because I wanted to competely ignore the Catalyst and just kill him, but because I realy wanted that one ending which was completely different from the rest, instead of the same old every time. I am not suggesting at all that Bioware should completely change the ending, and I have no problems with Biowares desicion to make a new ending, but I strongly believe that the players should have much more diversity to the endings then just the same sequence with a few modifications. And hell, if I invested the time and effort to get an EMS of 6000 and convince the Ilusive Man to kill himself, I feel I deserve that one ending in which Tali and I can fly off to Rannoch, get married, and live out the rest of our days in happiness. Don't think that I'm writing all of this because the "Best possible ending" still involves the death of the Geth and the destruction of the Mass Relays with Shepard simply taking a single breath at the end, but I will admit that I love happy endings when they are well deserved, and I did feel that I deserved a hapyy ending.

2) More closeur

While this is one is the main reason the DLC is going to be realeased, the only thing which I will say about this is that concequences should have an impact with some of the ending cinematics. Maybe showing the Quarians building a monument for Shepard for all that he accomplished, or the Krogan's cursing Shepard for sabataging the genophage cure. However, as I said in the comments above, the ending didn't feel diverse enough, not matter what you did.

3) Revamping the final mission?

I will say that this is less important, and I find this unlikely to be done, but it would be cool if the gameplay of the final mission was more similar to ME2's suicide mission. Just something to say.


This post was mainly on the few things I liked less about ME3, and I still think that it was a spectacular game. While this is 1 point of view among many thousands, I hope that Bioware can ignore those few people who refuse to achnowlege the flaws of the ending and those extreamists who want the ending to completely changed to create something which will satisfy the majority of the players.

The game was more than great, the ending not so much.

Obviously your either ignorant or a troll, the Vast majority have spoken... 92% are upset the ending is not what was promised, is not like other Bioware games, is completely different.

Wether you realize it or not, your words tell us you also are part of that majority.

The vast mojrity are not all out to hate Bioware, we just want what they promised.  We want the multiple endings like in their past games, what they said ME was going to be all along.

[Voodoo-j]

Khran1505 wrote...

Can we just get a date for the DLC? They claim sometime in summer which we are already in and usually we'd have a date right about now.

I think June 21st is technically the solstice where summer begins.


Aye...

On non-leap years (until 2039), this day marks the summer solstice in the northern hemisphere and the winter solstice in the southern hemisphere, and is the day of the year with the most hours of daylight in the northern hemisphere and the least hours of daylight in the southern hemisphere. 

[Voodoo-j]

Honestly I'm expecting something in July, unless they really go out of their way and hit end of August. Either way I'm content to let them do whatever they need to do, at least they are doing something.

I'm guessing the longer it takes, the more that will be happy.

Modifié par Voodoo-j, 10 juin 2012 - 03:00 .

[Archonsg]

@bluestorm83


Well thought out post.


I do agree with you, that Bioware shoukd be paid their dues, though the situation here is muddied up by Bioware's silence and defense of the current ending.





The question is then, how much is "fair" to both parties involved?





I will say this though, I would have paid $9.90 - $19.90 for an Alternate Endings DLC that woukd have reworked from London on.





For a full reworking DLC, that would include and not limited to ;





1) rework Tali's face reveal. Animate her full face reveal, do it in the presence of your all your surviving squadmates, especially those from ME1, and have Shepard and Tali Share that kiss by that house on Rannoch.





2) Jack and kids. Work them into them into the story, give them a bigger role. More so, have Jack stay if she is your romance partner.





3) For god's sakes give Ashley more of a personality. In fact give all your LIs more lines, more opinions, just more. It always irked me that your LIs just stands there and does not say anything of value, or heck just make small talk when you visit her (or him)





4) fully fleshed out and reworked London missions with all your assets at disposal.





5) fully fleshed out MULTIPLE ENDINGS ranging from the dire "galaxy fracked to hell" to a happy retirement with LI and fully fleshed out epilogues.





For all that, I'd pay $29.90-$39. 90.Though it will be because I want to save the Mass Effect series, and preserve my own emotional investment in the game's series.





Will I forgive or forget, no.


If however all the above is made available without being an obvious money grab, and an apology is included, it will be a balm to my emotional injuries both as a fan and customer.





Psn edit due to pisting from the phone. Spelling and formatting errors are such a pain.

Modifié par Archonsg, 10 juin 2012 - 03:44 .

[3DandBeyond]

BearlyHere wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Wow, 1995. That's actually pretty impressive, but then also depressing, sort of. I've played a lot of games in my time and I know there were others that had some different endings based on what you did and they were pretty linear games (ME3 ends up being just as linear as any other).

As for the points Archonsg makes, one thought which I know he's brought to light is they said the endings would be due to our choices in the game. We know they really aren't, in fact. You don't have to really care about the choices in order to even get the "gasp" ending. As we've discussed you can just play a lot of MP and promote a lot of teams to get a high enough EMS. So, you don't have to search for war assets or even make all of the decisions in the game-just do the bare necessities.

So, your decisions don't matter because all roads lead to Rome (I mean all roads lead to the exact same crazyville), and your decisions don't matter because you don't even have to make all of them.

What's worse, if you kick butt in MP because you're a credit card player and buy several of the speshul Spectre packs, you can get your EMS high enough without even having to bother with the tedious parts of the campaign like searching for assets.

I like the analogy about the "artistic" bedsheet, but I think it's worse. Say your crazy uncle not only poops the bed, rolls in it, and insists it's art, and he intended to do that all along, thank you very much. And then he gives it to you at your birthday party in front of all your friends and neighbors as your gift and hangs it on your wall.

This was the point I was making, that you don't have to do much in the SP game as long as you play MP and promote teams to get war assets-if you promote enough, you don't even ever have to play MP again for 100% readiness.  Of course, it can take awhile to do that, but it can be done.  You just need to promote enough to get to 10,000 in war assets (just).  Each promotion is worth 75 points, so you need about 134 promotions if you get there using MP alone.  What that means is in theory, none of your single player choices have to matter at all.  Actually they don't matter at all if MP alone gets you there.  And, I use 10k as the figure, but you could get by with far fewer, such as 8k.  10k gives you 5k EMS if readiness drops to 50%, and 8k=4k at 50%.  It just depends on what ending (ugh) you want to make sure you get and that you don't kill off Liara.  If that matters to you.

But, the main point is just how irrelevant many of the SP game's quests are.  And this for a game where your choices in the story would determine the outcome.  Yeah, right. 

But, I do disagree in that you don't have to buy the packs in MP to get to that number at all.  Archosg is proof of that.  And those packs only really help you become the top player in a game (other than medigel), for the most part and only if you get good stuff.  Buying them doesn't mean you will get anything good.  Youtube videos have shown you get just as much garbage when you pay for them as when you use credits for them.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 10 juin 2012 - 03:26 .

[LiarasShield]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  With TV, Networks treat every ONE letter that's written to complain about something as 1,000 dissatisfied people, under their research that suggests that 999 people will run the range of mildly displeased through annoyed to disgusted and will never watch that show again, and ONE will be so incensed that they have to write in about it.  That's how they get their money, after all.  Ratings drive advertising, which drives sponsorship, which is a paid service.

If the uproar is large enough that sites cover the controversy, REGARDLESS of if the sites themselves are pro-ending or anti-ending, that means that a company that makes money will take notice.

Also, to the dude who says that it's a Minority that is dissatisfied, but then says that Most of his friends didn't like the ending...

You've contradicted yourself.  Most is Majority.  Let's play a game here.  Assume you have six friends.  If MOST of them are dissatisfied with the ending, that means at least 4 of your friends are dissatisfied.  Add you in as a pro-ending player.  That's 4 who are dissatisfied, 3 who are satisfied.  A Majority dislikes the ending.

Of me and MY friends, 100% agree: Shepard finding a big red "Reapers Go Away!" button, and pressing it, would have been a better ending.  Putting aside the false advertising, product not fit for purpose, incomplete single player viability, on-the-disc PAID content... that's still not only a Majority of people who are dissatisfied, that's a Totality.

---  I have seen review sites tout the ending as incredible and appropriate and not in any way broken: Nonsense.  But I can dismiss them because these same review sites have before been dead wrong about games that were terrible that they said were good.  I'm sure we all remember the Kain and Lynch review fiasco.

I have seen people who insist that the endings made perfect sense, but then rather than explain why they begin to troll around here.

And then I've seen Holger who agrees that the endings could have and maybe even should have been better and make more sense, but who can accept the endings as they are and not be so incensed by it all as I am.

Keep in mind, this thread isn't "Come here to hate the ending."  This thread is "Discuss the endings."  The majority of people here agree that the ending is broken, bad, inappropriate, incongrouous with the game's themes, etc etc.  Not the majority of POSTS, but the majority of People.  When new names pop up, take their first post and their opinion on it.  Most say it's a huge disappointment.  One dude, a serviceman if I remember correctly, was so disheartened because his Shepard was made nearly 100% in his own image, but then at the end was ripped from his own personality and forced into three options that this player would never choose.  Same for me, though my Shepard is made in my own image if I was a muscular space soldier and not a 300 pound fatso (Down to 225 pound fatso, WOOO!) when I made him.

---  And yes, as 3D says, vocality outweighs numbers when it comes to change and driving force.  Look at the American Revolution.  Britain outnumbered us, they had better and more technology, and they had more money.  But we had shrieking madmen tossing tea into the ocean and hiding in trees with guns, who were damn tired of a bad situation.  If you get up and scream loud enough, people start to hear you.

Exactly I mean I have shepard making the choices that i would probably make if I was in her same position so to be forced into three choices that I or shepard would probably never make is a bit disheartening

[D24O]

3DandBeyond wrote...

This was the point I was making, that you don't have to do much in the SP game as long as you play MP and promote teams to get war assets-if you promote enough, you don't even ever have to play MP again for 100% readiness.  Of course, it can take awhile to do that, but it can be done.  You just need to promote enough to get to 10,000 in war assets (just).  Each promotion is worth 75 points, so you need about 134 promotions if you get there using MP alone.  What that means is in theory, none of your single player choices have to matter at all.  Actually they don't matter at all if MP alone gets you there.  And, I use 10k as the figure, but you could get by with far fewer, such as 8k.  10k gives you 5k EMS if readiness drops to 50%, and 8k=4k at 50%.  It just depends on what ending (ugh) you want to make sure you get and that you don't kill off Liara.  If that matters to you.

But, the main point is just how irrelevant many of the SP game's quests are.  And this for a game where your choices in the story would determine the outcome.  Yeah, right. 

While that's true, I don't see many people promoting a hundred multiplayer characthers, especially before their first singleplayer playthrough when the decesions have the most impact.

[Kel_Stormraven]

While granted the last ten minutes or so of the game kind of suck what with not being able to really see any effect from all of those decisions made through all 3 games It is still a great game up to that point. And I think that Bioware did an excellent job bringing this trilogy to a close. Would I like more from the ending like what happens to all my favorite compatriots? Hell Yes. Is the Starchild annoying? Hell Yes. But I think that they are doing good things with the multiplayer and I hope to start seeing some DLC for the single player game. In particular I want to join Aria in the battle to take back Omega. That could make for hours of additional play.

[3DandBeyond]

@BlueStorm83,
Great post! And I will state again, that of those that generally come on this website, this forum, and not just this thread, very few that don't "hate" the ending, don't seem to like it that much and don't "love" it. The only ones that love it, for the most part have been paid reviewers--get that, PAID reviewers. Other unpaid reviewers have stated the exact opposite. I think I know what that means. I don't know why it's so hard to put 2 and 2 together.

And your point about the serviceman is spot on. It applies so to him, because he was horrified to see a character that he was able to make look like him and then make the choices he would, turned into something he is not: a gutless wonder. All of us to some extent saw the things that Shepard saw and decided things using our own sets of values, at least at some point. For me, it meant I couldn't cheat on my LI (well except for Kelly so she'd feed my fish) and I actually got kind of mad at Kaiden for always trying to tell me what to do or insinuating I didn't have my priorities straight. For many of us it was the fact that we would never choose one of those things at the end, but the game makes you. That serviceman envisioned himself doing something way out of his own character and in a game that allowed him along the way to make choices way more in keeping with his character.

The American Revolution analogy is one I was using back when we all were discussing ways that overwhelming force can be defeated using unconventional methods.

Sometimes it takes figuring out the Achille's heel of your foe just as occurred in the Revolution. Back then, it was traditional that forces met all lined up neatly on a field of battle and then it was a war of attrition. The colonists changed that and hid along roads and attacked, hid behind trees and attacked, utilized snipers to take out commanding officers and all of this was considered dishonorable by the British.

But, throughout history it has been the case that many wars are won and lost by the superior foe's lack of ability to adapt.

Ok, this will sound really cheesy, but I think it means a lot: From Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.

"one free man defending his home is more powerful than ten hired soldiers"

[3DandBeyond]

Kel_Stormraven wrote...

While granted the last ten minutes or so of the game kind of suck what with not being able to really see any effect from all of those decisions made through all 3 games It is still a great game up to that point. And I think that Bioware did an excellent job bringing this trilogy to a close. Would I like more from the ending like what happens to all my favorite compatriots? Hell Yes. Is the Starchild annoying? Hell Yes. But I think that they are doing good things with the multiplayer and I hope to start seeing some DLC for the single player game. In particular I want to join Aria in the battle to take back Omega. That could make for hours of additional play.

I do appreciate your  point of view.

But, again people on the Titanic were having a great ride until the end, but I think all they remembered of the journey was the end.  And not too many of the survivors wanted to hop right back on a ship for any long trip afterwards.

I think you misspoke in saying that the game ending kind of sucks, but that Bioware did an excellent job in bringing the trilogy to a close.  In order for that to be true, the ending would have had to be quality.

And multiplayer is a real foreshadowing of the direction they seemed to be headed.  It is basically there for the microtransactions-to get you to buy those Spectre Packs, and that is also why Single Player is tied to it.  It is fun for awhile, but nowhere near as much fun as a good game with a great story and fantastic finish-MP just ends up being mind-numbing after a bit. 

What good is any battle to take back Omega, since it still leads to the same dismal ending?  I'm just asking.  If the devs had even followed their own story, after Shepard makes a choice the galaxy, including Omega should be in ruin.  Not good for Aria.  I would have loved such DLC before, but unless they do really fix the ending, taking back Omega is an exercise in futility.