23455 réponses à ce sujet

[nara14]

I know its been covered that the game's was clealy misrepresented in statements about the ending by the person resposible for writing it, and how bad it is that there's no debating the catalyst AI, but did if anyone bring up how silly it is that a weapon built to destroy the reapers has no real mechanism to destroy them,? The only option for destroying the reapers requires you to shoot some kind of cooling /coupling tube to destroy your own weapon,and there was never really any way to destroy the reapers using the crucible as built? Wether it was some kind of bomb or gun, the brightest minds in the galaxy from multiple species and different cycles forgot to add a trigger or firing mechanism. Even if they didn't fully understand it's capabilities, it's only logical they would have some idea of what it could do, seeing as the other 2 options either favored or fulfilled the agenda of the reapers, and makes building the crucible into a galactic suicide machine. This could have been a good twist if used that way, and would actually make the resourse building have an impact on the game as it could have been used to factor in what type of ending you'd get after Shepard destroyed the crucible. And the ending wasn't surreal and philosophical like the movie 2001, after getting hit by Harbinger, the screen looks like it does because Shepard is injured, and looks exactly like when your shields and health is low, and then he's staggering forward on willpower alone. If anything this part of the ending owes more to Pulp fiction, (Bruce Willis being chased by Ving Rhames go to 1 minute in)

[Darth Spike]

I'm gonna be one of the many people calling bull$&@^ on the 'listening' part of the sentance. The developers haven't listened to a single thing we said since the release. And i just love how stupid they are being. They think that explaning why the $%#^ endings smell like $@#& will make it any better. I guess they all took pointers from the polotitions.

[3DandBeyond]

XXVI wrote...

Out of curiosity, have you or anyone else here played "The Longest Journey"? I found a lot of thematic parallels, especially in the ending.

No, I haven't.  I will have to look it up-not to play, but to see what it's about.


Now, here's another thought I had and maybe a stupid question.

If the Citadel is the star kid's home and a part of him as he says, then why in ME1 did they need the Keepers to activate its relay and then since the Keepers had been "disconnected" by the Protheans, why was Saren needed to go there and do it?

I mean what good was the star kid?

[Archonsg]

BladeHero12 wrote...On an unrelated note, I went to Barnes and Noble yesterday, and I spied with my little eye a comic featuring James on the cover with the title "Hell on Earth". I guess this comic is supposed detail what Mr. Vega was doing when the Reapers hit Earth; after seeing this I felt kind of down. The story continues to grow, but I don't care what happens outside of Shepard's perspective; it is now irrelevant. I understand this release must have been planned months ago, but what is the point of releasing more about a story that many of the fans feel is dead? I'm just glad Tali wasn't on the cover; since I like Tali the prospect of learning more about her character would normally intrigue me, however, given that the totally busted ending drains much of my ME-related happiness this would probably make me feel worse. Oh yeah, I also have to wonder if this comic is diverting resources away from the EC...

Oh, but I do think it is very much in relation to the current ending and what you mentioned prior. You see, I too had I never seen and am not told that the artistic vision for the end of the Mass Effect series is to have Shepard commit suicide, to wreck galactic society and more importantly to ruin *my Shepard* by taking my ability to choose or work towards different ending themes away, I would have been buying anything Mass Effect related to further immerse myself in a world i fell in love with.

What Bioware with its insistence on keeping to this "artistic vision" is essentially destroying fans enthusiasm of the Mass Effect's story and game world lore, after all, it is very hard to be enthusiastic about things you know will be broken, destroyed and the memory of it raped by a vision that you did not choose, would not choose if there had been any other choice.

That Bioware do not seem to understand this, I find amazingly inconsistent and illogical, as with the ending.

Modifié par Archonsg, 13 juin 2012 - 06:35 .

[*Di]

I don't expect to have anyone care about my feelings about the ending. I spent 8 yrs and hundreds of dollars, probably thousands of hours, on an epic mission that I was never allowed to suceed. It wasn't as if some of my friends and colleagues would die... it was always confirmed that all my friends and colleagues would die... that I would die.... that everyone I cared about would die... that regardless of what choices we have made over eight years, no matter what we have chosen, no matter what we have done, we will never be allowed to win, we will never be allowed to survive, we will always lose and be destroyed.

Bioware... you have shattered my faith, crushed my beliefs, destroyed my hope. I hate what you have done to those who have been faithful for more than a decade. I hate what you have become. Eight years, you have toyed with us knowing that you would never let us succeed, that all we have cared about would be destroyed by your whim.

Screw you. I dispise what you have done to us... I dispise what you have become.

[a166524]

Loved playing the game through with my pure renegade, the option to let mordin live caught me by surprise and was so badass. Sometimes i wonder if im a little derranged for preferring renegade shep lol

[Redbelle]

Thought ppl might like to read an outsiders view of BW as a company in terms of what it produces and how it sells compared to other titles.

http://www.examiner....through-hit-yet

The title takes a bit of explanation to put into context I admit. I like BW but in the wider scope of the gaming industry they don't seem to be doing as well as someone who produces such passionate fans should seem to be.

[Archonsg]

@redbelle
You have to wonder though, that if not for the controversy, could Mass Effect 3 have sold far far more copies from not only high praise from the press but also from recommendations and word of mouth selling by the very fans they royally pissed offed?

Taking myself as an example, I know i had influenced at least 7 others to buy ME2 and had initially spoke highly of ME3 till I hit the ending. Then, it was a case of me talking someone else out of buying ME3. 4 people to be precise, since the other 3 had already bought theirs.

Perhaps I am biased, in that I am a fan, so do think that Mass Effect 3 could have done much better if not for the negative fan reaction.

[Benchpress610]

Archonsg wrote...

@redbelle
You have to wonder though, that if not for the controversy, could Mass Effect 3 have sold far far more copies from not only high praise from the press but also from recommendations and word of mouth selling by the very fans they royally pissed offed?

Taking myself as an example, I know i had influenced at least 7 others to buy ME2 and had initially spoke highly of ME3 till I hit the ending. Then, it was a case of me talking someone else out of buying ME3. 4 people to be precise, since the other 3 had already bought theirs.

Perhaps I am biased, in that I am a fan, so do think that Mass Effect 3 could have done much better if not for the negative fan reaction.

I think your experience is a common occurrence amongst most fans. Of course, I don’t have any statistics to back it up, but from anecdotal accounts that’s pretty much what has happened. I have influenced at least three friends not to buy the game at least until the EC comes out. My usual answer when asked about the games is: “IMO the game is brilliant, but the end is very disappointing”  

[otreblA_SNAKE_ITA]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

I'm sure thousands of users already said what I'm gonna say, but never mind  xD

I loved the whole ME saga even if since ME2 vanished the feeling of being overwhelmed by an (almost) unlimited universe...I loved the complex and intricated story and how it's narrated with all its turn of events! I loved exploring the galaxy, reading the codex, knowing all the races who live in the universe...And I loved enstablishing relationship (and also my love story) with MY crew (yup, we're Shepard, that's OUR story, OUR crew, OUR universe...)

Unluckily, the ending was unsatisfying...In the final mission we don't have the feeling of being fighting a war with thousands soldiers against thousands enemies...We can't see Krogan smashing our enemies with brutal hand to hand attacks, Asari using their biotic powers to sling and slam them down, other humans fighting cover-to-cover against the violence of the Reapers and so on...Our fleet is almost useless...We can see it only in few and short videos which don't change depending on the fleet strenght and we can't "command" it...I would have loved to give some orders to the fleet enstablishing some of the duties of some deployments of our "invincible armada".
And above all, I was disappointed with the ending itself...The game just doesn't come to a conclusion, it just show us some videos not connected one each other and without any sense...I was sad to see that this fantastic saga finished in a so inconclusive way, considering only relatively the choices we made in the previous episodes...

Hoping that Shepard's adventures won't finish in this sad way,
otreblA

Modifié par otreblA_SNAKE_ITA, 13 juin 2012 - 01:03 .

[otreblA_SNAKE_ITA]

BladeHero12 wrote...
Reading the posts on this thread has helped me to truly recognize how much the Catalyst's presence breaks the story. The more time I spend here the more I wonder if the EC will actually accomplish anything... Ironically the IT would explain much of what happens at the end of the game, but its an idea I don't like; to me Shepard is supposed to be the one whom resists against all odds, and the point at which the Reapers' power is shown to be finite.

I don't agree with you...WE are Shepard and we can fall in the indoctrination process as well as any other sentient living being in the universe! 
We can say  about that, that "Bioware indoctrinated almost all of us" Shepard is a human...And above all: every ME player is Shepard, and every ME player is human (oh yeah, there are some Asari, Turian exc out of there, but I'm talking about ME players on the earth )

[3DandBeyond]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

@redbelle
You have to wonder though, that if not for the controversy, could Mass Effect 3 have sold far far more copies from not only high praise from the press but also from recommendations and word of mouth selling by the very fans they royally pissed offed?

Taking myself as an example, I know i had influenced at least 7 others to buy ME2 and had initially spoke highly of ME3 till I hit the ending. Then, it was a case of me talking someone else out of buying ME3. 4 people to be precise, since the other 3 had already bought theirs.

Perhaps I am biased, in that I am a fan, so do think that Mass Effect 3 could have done much better if not for the negative fan reaction.

I think your experience is a common occurrence amongst most fans. Of course, I don’t have any statistics to back it up, but from anecdotal accounts that’s pretty much what has happened. I have influenced at least three friends not to buy the game at least until the EC comes out. My usual answer when asked about the games is: “IMO the game is brilliant, but the end is very disappointing”  

I have an ereader (a Barnes and Noble nook tablet) and was waiting for the ME books and all to show up there. The only ME thing I bought for it was before I finished ME3.  That was the Redemption graphic novel.  I am not interested at this time in buying any of the other books they have for the series and there's quite a few.

I've said this before-I have 2 nephews and a brother I was going to buy all 3 games for, and I was going to get my nephews xboxlive gold and was going to get all 3 of them the DLC (even though the way the required From Ashes and LOTSB really rankled me).  But, then I finished the game and I decided to buy them other things.

I was also going to get the PS3 copies of ME2 and ME3 for my cousin with the DLC, but decided not to.  She likes gaming, but is more into stories than fighting and since she's a writer and an editor I instead discussed the story with her.  She wanted to know all about the controversy.  Needless to say she found numerous flaws with it, just as many of us have. 

[BlueStorm83]

--- Hmm, Chris had started this thread by asking what my favorite moments were. I suppose I'll give what my favorite moments were.

---Stopping Zaeed's quest for revenge to save the innocent, risking the loyalty of a crew member, but then having his loyalty anyway since I impressed him with my ballsitude.
---Talking Wrex into trusting me on Vermire and keeping him alive through three games, and using that to help the Krogan.
---Being heartbroken realizing that it was MY good example, and MY Paragon actions that led to Mordin giving his life to save others, and then learning that if I'd been a Renegade, I could have saved him.
---Running into any of the crew from ME2 in ME3, since I could have gotten them killed, but instead they all made it through.
---ESPECIALLY seeing that Jack was making a life for herself, caring about others, and had a modicum of happiness. It always bothered me that in Mass Effect 2 you can never really HELP her, you know?


Basically, anything that involved dialogue, choice, and visible consequences. You know, pretty much every scene where you didn't railroad us into three cutscenes that are actually ONE cutscene where nothing matters in any way, there's no variation, and you're not even sure if anything you did mattered worth a damn to anyone you've met in the series.

--- There's ANOTHER problem with the ending! It tells you that TEN THOUSAND YEARS LATER everything is alright. Ten thousand years later?! **** the future! I mean, ****, if we had LOST the war then ten thousand years later people would STILL be standing around on planets talking about going to the stars one day! But more importantly, I have no attachment to them.

And the last mission being on Earth? No offense to my RACE, but to hell with Earth. Mass Effect was always awe inspiring because of the GALAXY. Because of all the possibilities and discoveries and adventures that are OUT THERE somewhere. If I wanted to charge down the streets of a ruined European city I could have played one of the FIFTY EIGHT THOUSAND world war 2 games!

Modifié par BlueStorm83, 13 juin 2012 - 02:43 .

[3DandBeyond]

otreblA_SNAKE_ITA wrote...

BladeHero12 wrote...
Reading the posts on this thread has helped me to truly recognize how much the Catalyst's presence breaks the story. The more time I spend here the more I wonder if the EC will actually accomplish anything... Ironically the IT would explain much of what happens at the end of the game, but its an idea I don't like; to me Shepard is supposed to be the one whom resists against all odds, and the point at which the Reapers' power is shown to be finite.

I don't agree with you...WE are Shepard and we can fall in the indoctrination process as well as any other sentient living being in the universe! 
We can say  about that, that "Bioware indoctrinated almost all of us" Shepard is a human...And above all: every ME player is Shepard, and every ME player is human (oh yeah, there are some Asari, Turian exc out of there, but I'm talking about ME players on the earth )

The point being made is not that people don't think Shepard could be indoctrinated, but many don't think Shepard should be.

For one thing, it makes it clear then that we are forever stuck with the star kid, even if he exists in a hallucination.  I know we probably are, anyway, but he will always remind me of something I think totally sucks and he has tainted the game.  His presence at the end even tainted the kid at the beginning.  I didn't like him much at first, but that was ok, I got past it.  I really dislike him now.

Next, IT is a character breaker.  If Shepard is indoctrinated, then anything Shepard has done ever is called into question.  Or should be by other characters within the game.  Though they (the devs) have shown they don't necessarily remember things that happened before, we've seen that Shepard already had a credibility issue.  I mean, Shepard would say something and no one would believe it.  Shepard had visions, Shepard was being lied to by Saren, and so on.  That's what people thought.  But everything Shepard said turned out to be true.  If Shepard is indoctrinated the only redemption for his/her character would be in the ultimate rejection of it.  Otherwise, other major decisions Shepard made would be looked at skeptically. 

It ruins Shepard from a player point of view in the same way this ending now does.  It's a surrender to something that we always saw Shepard as being able to overcome or reject.  We want to see ourselves in Shepard, but we also want to see Shepard as the ultimate hero, better than TIM, better than Kai Leng, better than Saren.  Indoctrination stomps Shepard down to their level.  Shepard's strong mind is now weak, too.  In my opinion this is the same as a gratuitous death or the suicides we have now.

And it does one other thing that is almost unforgivable.  It tells players that they purposely released an unfinished game.  As I said, the only way to redeem an indoctrination ending would be to have more content showing Shepard rejecting and overcoming it.  For IT to be true, at some point the game would still need an ending.  Even releasing the EC that's been announced is problematic, but having released a game purposely without an ending is really forgetting a certain segment of buyers-those people that will not be able to get the ending or EC.  Some people just won't be able to.  To me, this is a problem.

IT is just about the only thing that can make sense of what the ending is, but for many reasons if it is true, it was not done well and is unsatisfying.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Hmm, Chris had started this thread by asking what my favorite moments were. I suppose I'll give what my favorite moments were.

---Stopping Zaeed's quest for revenge to save the innocent, risking the loyalty of a crew member, but then having his loyalty anyway since I impressed him with my ballsitude.
---Talking Wrex into trusting me on Vermire and keeping him alive through three games, and using that to help the Krogan.
---Being heartbroken realizing that it was MY good example, and MY Paragon actions that led to Mordin giving his life to save others, and then learning that if I'd been a Renegade, I could have saved him.
---Running into any of the crew from ME2 in ME3, since I could have gotten them killed, but instead they all made it through.
---ESPECIALLY seeing that Jack was making a life for herself, caring about others, and had a modicum of happiness. It always bothered me that in Mass Effect 2 you can never really HELP her, you know?


Basically, anything that involved dialogue, choice, and visible consequences. You know, pretty much every scene where you didn't railroad us into three cutscenes that are actually ONE cutscene where nothing matters in any way, there's no variation, and you're not even sure if anything you did mattered worth a damn to anyone you've met in the series.

--- There's ANOTHER problem with the ending! It tells you that TEN THOUSAND YEARS LATER everything is alright. Ten thousand years later?! **** the future! I mean, ****, if we had LOST the war then ten thousand years later people would STILL be standing around on planets talking about going to the stars one day! But more importantly, I have no attachment to them.

And the last mission being on Earth? No offense to my RACE, but to hell with Earth. Mass Effect was always awe inspiring because of the GALAXY. Because of all the possibilities and discoveries and adventures that are OUT THERE somewhere. If I wanted to charge down the streets of a ruined European city I could have played one of the FIFTY EIGHT THOUSAND world war 2 games!

Those were some of my favorite moments as well along with Legion asking if he had a soul.  That really hit me because I've heard people say that what makes people people are their souls, and throughout a fairly religious upbringing I was told by church people that animals (my pets) don't.  But when I was little my mom would say when a pet died we'd see it in heaven, and if I was upset at seeing a dead animal on the road, she'd tell me to pray for its soul.  And many years later, I still get upset and still say a little prayer for the dead. 

Then in a game, I see a being that came about through some force of will, whatever you want to call it.  Legion and the rest became alive and thoughts I'd always had (that it was never my right to decide who or what had a soul) came back around.  That is what self-determination is about.  It was a theme in at least one STNG story on Data-there was a trial in which some kept calling Data "it" and his crewmates always used the human pronouns, "he" or "him".

I see Legion's question as rhetorical, because in all his actions it was he who determined that he did have a soul and Shepard's opinion didn't matter in that determination.  The fact that my Shepard agreed is only icing on the cake.

I agree wholeheartedly for this and for many other reasons that I could care less what some future people did.  And in some ways it authenticates and rejects what the reapers did and what the kid said.  The kid said they'd create synthetics that would kill them-but they seem pretty incapable of doing anything much after 10k years.  And apparently without all that reaper tech they are unable to do much.  Now I know they would have had to come back from sheer ruin, but at the very least they would have been somewhat ahead of the Neanderthals or even the Ancient Greeks or Romans.  They'd have had some technical and other knowledge passed down from generation to generation.  So much for advanced organics.

In my mind the ending took away the soul of the game.  It would have been like Shepard saying, "yes, Legion you have a soul."  And then Legion looks at Shepard and says, "man, are you stupid.  Of course I don't have a soul, you idiot," and he and other geth open fire on Shepard and Tali and whoever.

The game and story had a real soul that was mainly due to what players felt about it, and what players put into it.  That's all ripped away.

[otreblA_SNAKE_ITA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

otreblA_SNAKE_ITA wrote...

BladeHero12 wrote...
Reading
the posts on this thread has helped me to truly recognize how much the
Catalyst's presence breaks the story. The more time I spend here the
more I wonder if the EC will actually accomplish anything... Ironically
the IT would explain much of what happens at the end of the game, but
its an idea I don't like; to me Shepard is supposed to be the one whom
resists against all odds, and the point at which the Reapers' power is
shown to be finite.

I don't agree with you...WE are
Shepard and we can fall in the indoctrination process as well as any
other sentient living being in the universe! 
We can say  about that,
that "Bioware indoctrinated almost all of us" Shepard is a
human...And above all: every ME player is Shepard, and every ME player
is human (oh yeah, there are some Asari, Turian exc out of there, but
I'm talking about ME players on the earth )

The point being made is not that people don't think Shepard could be indoctrinated, but many don't think Shepard should be.

For
one thing, it makes it clear then that we are forever stuck with the
star kid, even if he exists in a hallucination.  I know we probably are,
anyway, but he will always remind me of something I think totally sucks
and he has tainted the game.  His presence at the end even tainted the
kid at the beginning.  I didn't like him much at first, but that was ok,
I got past it.  I really dislike him now.

Next, IT is a
character breaker.  If Shepard is indoctrinated, then anything Shepard
has done ever is called into question.  Or should be by other characters
within the game.  Though they (the devs) have shown they don't
necessarily remember things that happened before, we've seen that
Shepard already had a credibility issue.  I mean, Shepard would say
something and no one would believe it.  Shepard had visions, Shepard was
being lied to by Saren, and so on.  That's what people thought.  But
everything Shepard said turned out to be true.  If Shepard is
indoctrinated the only redemption for his/her character would be in the
ultimate rejection of it.  Otherwise, other major decisions Shepard made
would be looked at skeptically. 

It ruins Shepard from a player
point of view in the same way this ending now does.  It's a surrender
to something that we always saw Shepard as being able to overcome or
reject.  We want to see ourselves in Shepard, but we also want to see
Shepard as the ultimate hero, better than TIM, better than Kai Leng,
better than Saren.  Indoctrination stomps Shepard down to their level. 
Shepard's strong mind is now weak, too.  In my opinion this is the same
as a gratuitous death or the suicides we have now.

And it does
one other thing that is almost unforgivable.  It tells players that they
purposely released an unfinished game.  As I said, the only way to
redeem an indoctrination ending would be to have more content showing
Shepard rejecting and overcoming it.  For IT to be true, at some point
the game would still need an ending.  Even releasing the EC that's been
announced is problematic, but having released a game purposely without
an ending is really forgetting a certain segment of buyers-those people
that will not be able to get the ending or EC.  Some people just won't
be able to.  To me, this is a problem.

IT is just about the only
thing that can make sense of what the ending is, but for many reasons
if it is true, it was not done well and is unsatisfying.

About Shepard: it doesn't amaze me to see that he's a human like all the other people! The choice you make at the end of the game determines if you have been indoctrinated or not (that also explains why Shepard wakes up and survive only if you choose to kill the Reapers)

About the child: I didn't like him too, it was..."empty"? "Predictable"? Anyway, this is a personal point of view, probably hundreds of players liked his presence (really??? xD)

Anyway I agree with you: if IT is real, it was not done well and it is unsatisfying...I hope that Bioware will do wonders with the Extended Cut DLC...

PS: I usually eat children

Modifié par otreblA_SNAKE_ITA, 13 juin 2012 - 03:36 .

[Benchpress610]

BlueStorm83 wrote...
*snip*

--- There's ANOTHER problem with the ending! It tells you that TEN THOUSAND YEARS LATER everything is alright. Ten thousand years later?! **** the future! I mean, ****, if we had LOST the war then ten thousand years later people would STILL be standing around on planets talking about going to the stars one day! But more importantly, I have no attachment to them.
*snip*

Now that you mention it, the scene with the stargazer at the very end indicates that 10,000 years in the future there is still no space flight. Although I have seen this fact mentioned before in this thread, it has flown under the radar.
 
So all that talk from pro-enders to justify or explain the destruction of the mass relays, adducing that the galaxy will be OK because there is still FTL fight is, another boatload of horse manure. So yes, everybody is stranded wherever they are and the Victory Fleet is stuck in the Solar system… Yeah...What a great way to “save” the galaxy!!

[3DandBeyond]

Redbelle wrote...

Thought ppl might like to read an outsiders view of BW as a company in terms of what it produces and how it sells compared to other titles.

http://www.examiner....through-hit-yet

The title takes a bit of explanation to put into context I admit. I like BW but in the wider scope of the gaming industry they don't seem to be doing as well as someone who produces such passionate fans should seem to be.

One truly telling quote from the interview referenced there:

"[The trust] is something very new... I have a lot of respect for John
Riccitiello (EA). He is trying to move the company towards a vision that is
very smart, with a sort of city-state culture. Basically, you're
accountable only to generate revenue. I like that relationship of
responsibility."



The quote is from Dorian Kieken, development director of Bioware's Montreal studio.

Part of the meaning of this is great-that apparently EA doesn't micro-manage content (though I find it funny that MP in ME3 follows a distinct formula that EA is starting to use in all their games), but the other part of it seems more on point, content is revenue driven.  I'm not naive or anti-profit, but I think there needs to be a balance.  I'm often reminded of the concept many old school entrepreneurs went by-create a quality product that people want to buy and profits will follow.  Instead of dumbing down a game meant for more (for lack of a better word) intelligent people that wanted a great story and then calling it art, all they had to do was follow form and make a truly intelligent quality ending-one that appealed to the heart, gut, and brain.  And profits would follow.

[3DandBeyond]

Benchpress610 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...
*snip*

--- There's ANOTHER problem with the ending! It tells you that TEN THOUSAND YEARS LATER everything is alright. Ten thousand years later?! **** the future! I mean, ****, if we had LOST the war then ten thousand years later people would STILL be standing around on planets talking about going to the stars one day! But more importantly, I have no attachment to them.
*snip*

Now that you mention it, the scene with the stargazer at the very end indicates that 10,000 years in the future there is still no space flight. Although I have seen this fact mentioned before in this thread, it has flown under the radar.
 
So all that talk from pro-enders to justify or explain the destruction of the mass relays, adducing that the galaxy will be OK because there is still FTL fight is, another boatload of horse manure. So yes, everybody is stranded wherever they are and the Victory Fleet is stuck in the Solar system… Yeah...What a great way to “save” the galaxy!!

The Crucible was to usher in a galactic dark ages.  That speaks for itself.  It means the people I knew and cared about are in a world of hurt.

[sdinc009]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Shepard: "I need to stop the reapers!"
Starboy: "You have the power to do so. You can destroy all Synthetic life."
Shepard: "I can?"
Starboy: "Yeah, sure. I mean, maybe. You might die too. You're Synthetic, right? I mean, mostly? Yeah, you'll die too."
Shepard: "You don't seem to sure."
Starboy: "No, really, like, all Synthetic Life will die if you shoot that pipe there. You, and the Geth, and the Reapers, and the Locust, and the Covenant, and those Mario Brothers too."
Shepard: "Yeah, most of those are videogame characters. That's not really synthetic life."
Starboy: "No, they are. I've seen them on the TV. Reviewers are always talking about their Artificial Intelligence."
Shepard: "Right, but that's just technical jargon. They're not really intelligent. They're not even Virtually Intelligent."
Starboy: "Huh."
Shepard: "Yeah."
(Long Pause.)
Shepard: "So, really, destroying the pipe will kill the Geth?"
Starboy: "Probably. I mean, it's a pipe. What else would it do?"
Shepard: "Pipes don't usually destroy Synthetic Life."
Starboy: "This one will. Trust me. If you want to, you can control the Reapers instead."
Shepard: "Cool! how do I do that?"
Starboy: "Take this implement, and insert it into that slot there."
Shepard: "This is a fork, and that's an electrical socket. That'll kill me."
Starboy: "Right. But then you'll control the Reapers."
Shepard: "Okay, I'll bite. How can I control the Reapers when I'm dead?"
Starboy: "That's how it worked for everyone else. Like Saren, and The Illusive Man."
Shepard: "Close. They wanted to control the Reapers, and THEN they died."
Starboy: "Exactly, control blah blah, yadda yadda, dead."
Shepard: "I'll pass on that. Any other options?"
Starboy: "Well, since you're SUPER good at this all, I'll let you have the super secret option: We can BLEND all your organics with the Synthetics."
Shepard: "In a blender, right?"
Starboy: "Right! I mean, no. That's dumb, what would make you think that? (nervous chuckle.)"
Shepard: "Because I've seen your guys doing that before."
Starboy: "Those guys? We're not with them. We don't want to blend people with Synthetics. I mean, what? No, we're not about that. But since that's what you've wanted all along, I'll let you have it."
Shepard: "Yeah, that's not what I wanted all along. That's what the Reapers wanted all along. That's why they were sticking people on Eden Prime onto the Dragons' Teeth and turning them into Husks."
Starboy: "Dragons... what? Nope, I don't think that was us. That must have been you. Yeah. So really, pick Synthesis."
Shepard: "Quick question before I pick, when you take things, and synthesize something new out of them, what is that new thing? Like, what would you classify it as."
Starboy: "Synthetic. Why- oh, crap."
Shepard: "Yeah. So my choices are to either doom Synthetic Life in general including me, doom Organic Life in general including me, or control the Reapers... after I'm dead."
Starboy: "Pretty much. Sorry bro. OH! And the Mass Relays will be destroyed."
Shepard: "Destroyed? That's not good. I mean, I destroyed a Mass Relay once before. It did NOT end well for any planets near by. No sir, it did not. Those things kinda, well, blow up. Bad."
Starboy: "Right, but... this way they won't?"
Shepard: "That sounded like a question."
Starboy: "Yeah, everyone should be fine. I mean, besides, you know."
Shepard: "Besides what?"
Starboy: "Well, that fleet near Earth. They'll be stuck there if they don't get blown up when the Realy explodes."
Shepard: "But you said-"
Starboy: "I mean, IF the Relay Explodes. But that shouldn't happen. I mean, it MIGHT not. Probably won't happen. I want this to inspire people and give them hope after all."
Shepard: "So I die, the basic nature of the diversity of life is changed, I MIGHT be able to control the Reapers, and the Relays might kill all my friends."
Starboy: "No no, your friends will be fine. In the Jungle!"
Shepard: "JUNGLE?! Where the hell did a Jungle come into this!?"
Starboy: "Oh, that was fated from the very beginning. No matter what goes down here your friends will be safe and sound in a jungle in the middle of nowhere, where your two Dextro-based friends will be doomed."
Shepard: "That's a pretty ****ty thing to do to me."
Starboy: "I kinda agree on that, but I don't have the option to change things. I have to just follow the retarded path set out for me. That's why my Reapers, who I control, are still killing your forces even while I'm trying to convince you that we're BFFs."
Shepard: "Yeah, I was wondering about that too, but curiously unable to ask you about it."
Starboy: "Mmm hm. Oh, and you'd better make a choice soon. If you wait too long, you lose."
Shepard: "The fleet will be destroyed if I don't pick something?"
Starboy: "No, YOU lose. Like, the screen goes red and it says 'Mission Failure.' The Fleet might be strong enough to win, but we can't just wait and see."
Shepard: "Wow, that's a shame. Hey, why am I so ambivalent about this now? Don't I usually get fired up about things?"
Starboy: "Dude, there's some SERIOUS **** pumping into the air around here. Like, the kind of **** that's not legal. Why do you think there's so many trippy colors and a glowing ghost child and circular logic that only makes sense if you're high?"
Shepard: "Sweet. I'm hungry, man, you have anything to eat?"
Starboy: "Bro, you walked past my snack piles on the way in, you should have grabbed something!"
Shepard: "Ah, right, you guys eat corpses to get what you need to make babies. Gotta say, our way of making more of us is a lot more enjoyable than your way. Enough chit-chat, let me pick one of these three colors and let's get to screwing a galaxy."

This is awesome!!

[3DandBeyond]

otreblA_SNAKE_ITA wrote...

About Shepard: it doesn't amaze me to see that he's a human like all the other people! The choice you make at the end of the game determines if you have been indoctrinated or not (that also explains why Shepard wakes up and survive only if you choose to kill the Reapers)

About the child: I didn't like him too, it was..."empty"? "Predictable"? Anyway, this is a personal point of view, probably hundreds of players liked his presence (really??? xD)

Anyway I agree with you: if IT is real, it was not done well and it is unsatisfying...I hope that Bioware will do wonders with the Extended Cut DLC...

PS: I usually eat children

Well I think I speak for a lot of us that none of the 3 choices is a good one, depending upon how you played the game and your Shepard.  They are equally repulsive.  And if your EMS is not high enough and you didn't play multi-player, you won't get that Shepard lives ending or may even see the Earth get vaporized.  I don't see this as some rejection of indoctrination.

No, it's not surprising for Shepard to be human, but for a major part of the game to be based on Shepard falling down and failing character-wise is hard to overcome.  If however there had been some indoctrination mid--game where Shepard overcame it and then raced headlong into a fight, well that would have been amazing, in my opinion.  I've said it before and will say it here, the game was almost always about redemption or the lack of it.  I'd want to see Shepard redeem him/herself in order for me to accept IT.

I do agree that of the 3 choices it seems to be the kid and the reapers (based on a lot of what Sovereign and Saren said and what the reapers are) think Synthesis is the best choice.  Of course, it's repulsive, but I think all 3 choices are.  And the idea that Shepard gasps because and only because of EMS (and MP) is ridiculous-I mean ridiculous that someone wrote that and thought it made sense.

I haven't seen too many people (even those that don't dislike the ending) say they like the kid.

As for the "real" kid at the beginning.  His presence is contrived and unnecessary.  In fact, it really detracts a bit from the feeling of the whole set piece.  We don't need to be told Shepard cares about Earth and the people there, but we've always known that Shepard feels the weight of a whole lot of people on his/her shoulders.  The galaxy and Shepard's friends and crewmates really matter.  The insertion of this kid is just like he was thrown in there as the supposed "face" Shepard puts on the whole thing, like Mordin had with his nephew.  But, Shepard didn't need a face put on it and players sure didn't.

Then, putting this kid in the nightmares was really unnecessary.  Those dreams would have been way more frightening without him.  I just found him annoying.

You eat children.  Ha ha.  This is the first thing ever that made me really hate a kid that isn't supposed to be the devil necessarily.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 13 juin 2012 - 04:17 .

[sdinc009]

Di wrote...

I don't expect to have anyone care about my feelings about the ending. I spent 8 yrs and hundreds of dollars, probably thousands of hours, on an epic mission that I was never allowed to suceed. It wasn't as if some of my friends and colleagues would die... it was always confirmed that all my friends and colleagues would die... that I would die.... that everyone I cared about would die... that regardless of what choices we have made over eight years, no matter what we have chosen, no matter what we have done, we will never be allowed to win, we will never be allowed to survive, we will always lose and be destroyed.

Bioware... you have shattered my faith, crushed my beliefs, destroyed my hope. I hate what you have done to those who have been faithful for more than a decade. I hate what you have become. Eight years, you have toyed with us knowing that you would never let us succeed, that all we have cared about would be destroyed by your whim.

Screw you. I dispise what you have done to us... I dispise what you have become.

I feel you, but I need to correct you that ME 1 came out November 20, 2007. So, not 8 years more like 4.5, but we have all still invested quite a lot into this story

[Redbelle]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

@redbelle
You have to wonder though, that if not for the controversy, could Mass Effect 3 have sold far far more copies from not only high praise from the press but also from recommendations and word of mouth selling by the very fans they royally pissed offed?

Taking myself as an example, I know i had influenced at least 7 others to buy ME2 and had initially spoke highly of ME3 till I hit the ending. Then, it was a case of me talking someone else out of buying ME3. 4 people to be precise, since the other 3 had already bought theirs.

Perhaps I am biased, in that I am a fan, so do think that Mass Effect 3 could have done much better if not for the negative fan reaction.

I think your experience is a common occurrence amongst most fans. Of course, I don’t have any statistics to back it up, but from anecdotal accounts that’s pretty much what has happened. I have influenced at least three friends not to buy the game at least until the EC comes out. My usual answer when asked about the games is: “IMO the game is brilliant, but the end is very disappointing”  

For me its been the opposite. I've told them to buy it as not buying will leave everything other than the ending unresolved. The Rannoch war, the genophage all, imo, deserve to be played through as not playing them will leave over 5 years of following those plots unresolved.

If asked about the ending I'll usually say that it's completely up to them how they take it. Just try to avoid the youtube vids before going in so you can experience it on it's own merits.

[3DandBeyond]

sdinc009 wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- Shepard: "I need to stop the reapers!"
Starboy: "You have the power to do so. You can destroy all Synthetic life."
Shepard: "I can?"
Starboy: "Yeah, sure. I mean, maybe. You might die too. You're Synthetic, right? I mean, mostly? Yeah, you'll die too."
Shepard: "You don't seem to sure."
Starboy: "No, really, like, all Synthetic Life will die if you shoot that pipe there. You, and the Geth, and the Reapers, and the Locust, and the Covenant, and those Mario Brothers too."
Shepard: "Yeah, most of those are videogame characters. That's not really synthetic life."
Starboy: "No, they are. I've seen them on the TV. Reviewers are always talking about their Artificial Intelligence."
Shepard: "Right, but that's just technical jargon. They're not really intelligent. They're not even Virtually Intelligent."
Starboy: "Huh."
Shepard: "Yeah."
(Long Pause.)
Shepard: "So, really, destroying the pipe will kill the Geth?"
Starboy: "Probably. I mean, it's a pipe. What else would it do?"
Shepard: "Pipes don't usually destroy Synthetic Life."
Starboy: "This one will. Trust me. If you want to, you can control the Reapers instead."
Shepard: "Cool! how do I do that?"
Starboy: "Take this implement, and insert it into that slot there."
Shepard: "This is a fork, and that's an electrical socket. That'll kill me."
Starboy: "Right. But then you'll control the Reapers."
Shepard: "Okay, I'll bite. How can I control the Reapers when I'm dead?"
Starboy: "That's how it worked for everyone else. Like Saren, and The Illusive Man."
Shepard: "Close. They wanted to control the Reapers, and THEN they died."
Starboy: "Exactly, control blah blah, yadda yadda, dead."
Shepard: "I'll pass on that. Any other options?"
Starboy: "Well, since you're SUPER good at this all, I'll let you have the super secret option: We can BLEND all your organics with the Synthetics."
Shepard: "In a blender, right?"
Starboy: "Right! I mean, no. That's dumb, what would make you think that? (nervous chuckle.)"
Shepard: "Because I've seen your guys doing that before."
Starboy: "Those guys? We're not with them. We don't want to blend people with Synthetics. I mean, what? No, we're not about that. But since that's what you've wanted all along, I'll let you have it."
Shepard: "Yeah, that's not what I wanted all along. That's what the Reapers wanted all along. That's why they were sticking people on Eden Prime onto the Dragons' Teeth and turning them into Husks."
Starboy: "Dragons... what? Nope, I don't think that was us. That must have been you. Yeah. So really, pick Synthesis."
Shepard: "Quick question before I pick, when you take things, and synthesize something new out of them, what is that new thing? Like, what would you classify it as."
Starboy: "Synthetic. Why- oh, crap."
Shepard: "Yeah. So my choices are to either doom Synthetic Life in general including me, doom Organic Life in general including me, or control the Reapers... after I'm dead."
Starboy: "Pretty much. Sorry bro. OH! And the Mass Relays will be destroyed."
Shepard: "Destroyed? That's not good. I mean, I destroyed a Mass Relay once before. It did NOT end well for any planets near by. No sir, it did not. Those things kinda, well, blow up. Bad."
Starboy: "Right, but... this way they won't?"
Shepard: "That sounded like a question."
Starboy: "Yeah, everyone should be fine. I mean, besides, you know."
Shepard: "Besides what?"
Starboy: "Well, that fleet near Earth. They'll be stuck there if they don't get blown up when the Realy explodes."
Shepard: "But you said-"
Starboy: "I mean, IF the Relay Explodes. But that shouldn't happen. I mean, it MIGHT not. Probably won't happen. I want this to inspire people and give them hope after all."
Shepard: "So I die, the basic nature of the diversity of life is changed, I MIGHT be able to control the Reapers, and the Relays might kill all my friends."
Starboy: "No no, your friends will be fine. In the Jungle!"
Shepard: "JUNGLE?! Where the hell did a Jungle come into this!?"
Starboy: "Oh, that was fated from the very beginning. No matter what goes down here your friends will be safe and sound in a jungle in the middle of nowhere, where your two Dextro-based friends will be doomed."
Shepard: "That's a pretty ****ty thing to do to me."
Starboy: "I kinda agree on that, but I don't have the option to change things. I have to just follow the retarded path set out for me. That's why my Reapers, who I control, are still killing your forces even while I'm trying to convince you that we're BFFs."
Shepard: "Yeah, I was wondering about that too, but curiously unable to ask you about it."
Starboy: "Mmm hm. Oh, and you'd better make a choice soon. If you wait too long, you lose."
Shepard: "The fleet will be destroyed if I don't pick something?"
Starboy: "No, YOU lose. Like, the screen goes red and it says 'Mission Failure.' The Fleet might be strong enough to win, but we can't just wait and see."
Shepard: "Wow, that's a shame. Hey, why am I so ambivalent about this now? Don't I usually get fired up about things?"
Starboy: "Dude, there's some SERIOUS **** pumping into the air around here. Like, the kind of **** that's not legal. Why do you think there's so many trippy colors and a glowing ghost child and circular logic that only makes sense if you're high?"
Shepard: "Sweet. I'm hungry, man, you have anything to eat?"
Starboy: "Bro, you walked past my snack piles on the way in, you should have grabbed something!"
Shepard: "Ah, right, you guys eat corpses to get what you need to make babies. Gotta say, our way of making more of us is a lot more enjoyable than your way. Enough chit-chat, let me pick one of these three colors and let's get to screwing a galaxy."

This is awesome!!

Yes, it is amazing. Great job on that  Bluestorm83.