23455 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

darkway1 wrote...

Archong....I agree and yet disagree,lol......every project has a budget and that budget will only go so far......as I pointed out "choice" was only really tackled in Mass3 and I think it was more of a task than first imagined.....so thing's had to change.

To address the dark energy plot (original story) I think it would take at least another game to do it right and if Bioware had issues with player choice now then taking all that luggage one game further would in effect create 3 or 4 versions of the same game,never going to happen.

Everything that everyone wants to see in Mass Effect CAN BE DONE,but only if you have unlimited time and money,that's the reality of gaming.

My stance on the ending will never change however,it's a mess,if the aim is to end an epic story then that's exactly what you do,END IT.....you don't destroy the universe or did they?,have Shepard breathing or did he?...and have crew members crash on some planet who 5 minutes ago were part of your endgame party......as it all conflicts with the term "the end".

Naturally this is all speculation but it's plain to see the issues raised by player choice....it's never been done before,until now.

I think reality of what can and cannot be done in videogames is more or less known or accepted.  I know logically that all the promises Bioware made could not be kept.  I, for one wasn't looking for endlessly variable endings.  But, the reason this became a rallying point at all for people, had to do with the crap someone dumped on a plate and told us to eat.  I know you know that.

None of these things would have risen to the levels of objection or ridicule shown if the endings had been great.  I think we'd have all been very happy to not worry that we were only given 6 endings if the 6 endings had continuted the appearance of choice mattering.  We all recognized that quite often choices did all lead in the same direction, so that decisions appeared to create outcomes.  It was all in the presentation.  It's like two answers stating the same thing, but saying it in vastly different ways.  You could say no, but say it so it sound sufficiently different.  It's being good at creating a true subterfuge.

Basically, we know the ending could have been handled in much the same with, with window dressing.  We all figured there were two main outcomes-get that, two, not 6, not 16, not infinite.  We knew there were 2-reapers win, reapers lose.  The rest is icing on the cake.  Shepard lives, Shepard dies.  Team members that survived battles to that point, live or die.  No two ways about it, the galaxy is a mess, but Earth destroyed, Earth survives.  Relays destroyed, survived (if they even needed to go there).  Normandy destroyed, survives.  Love interest (they limited these actually in a way I was not even aware of-there are true loves where you had real romances and then some that are not true loves-do not ask me which is which, as I am only certain that Liara is one of the true loves). 

But, even your LI and a continued relationship could have hinged on whether that team member survived the final battle and whether you made a certain choice at the end.  For instance, Garrus lives and finds you alive.  You are given 3 choices of dialog upon seeing him.  One is about wanting to go and get drunk.  Another is to get mad at him for nearly destroying the Normandy or whatever (something a bit more negative), and a third is the choice to grab him and hug him with a paragon interrupt to kiss him or something like that.  A choice that says he is in fact still your LI.  So, they didn't have to single out any one Love Interest above the teammates for survival. 

In fact, they could have done a lot of things like they did at the end of ME2-if you didn't meet certain conditions, people died or even Shepard died.

I'd have much rather seen the choices if there had to be any for the Crucible be what type of destructive thing to unleash.  An EMP wave to shutdown the reapers (that would also have shut down any ship and the relays), or a selective type of beam that honed in on the frequency reapers use to indoctrinate.  Or, a beam that uses profile recognition to selectively target reapers for destruction.  And those things I could see tied to EMS maybe.

But, all the rest I would have liked to have seen as running choices that allow you maybe more options based upon how you've played the game or decisions you've made.  This is really made way more difficult because they had to have a way to make ME3 seem dependent upon ME1 and 2, but not let it really be dependent upon them.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- And hey, here's a question: WHY did Mass Effect 3 have to be the end of Shepard's Story? Couldn't we have just had the Crucible do some THING to the Reapers to make them easier to kill? Like, maybe it disables their Indoctrination and long range communication, to put us on a better footing, and then Mass Effect 4 could have focused on us going to destroy wherever the hell they make new reapers out in Dark Space? I mean, they DO live there all the time. There's at least one Mass Relay there to send them to the Citadel.

They could have built the game like the Suicide Mission style from ME2, recruiting guys, doing loyalty missions, and then going through for the biggest damn fight EVER, in the cold black beyond the edge of the galaxy.

They could have even (Don't hate me, dammit!) released DLC to recruit characters who may or may not have died in previous games. By default we'd go with James, EDI, either Ashley or Kaiden, and Liara, (as well as any new characters that a Theoretical ME4 would have introduced,) but then there could be 10 dollar DLC packs for recruiting and gaining the loyalty of any and all of the guys from ME1 or ME2 who may have died. It would be fine by me to pay 10 bucks to get Wrex back as a DLC character, with 2 missions for him (one recruiting, one Loyalty.) Same for Garrus, Grunt, Jack, Zaeed, Kasumi, Samara, Miranda, Jacob, Tali, and Javik. Aw, and Mordin... That way those of us who had characters die in the past can have the option to not pay for their part in the story, since it won't apply to us anyway, while others who saved those characters can shell out if they want to add them to their Roster. Javik's a DLC character because, well, he just kinda has to be, what with the way they made him.

Who cares if that means that the Normandy would be PACKED TO THE GILLS with around 30 Squad Members?  They could have used that opportunity to give us truly gigantic fights, like those scenes from the M3 commercials where Shepard was rolling with all the dudes and the Makos.  Imagine charging at, well, anything, with all your surviving buddies from past games, who you had painstakingly combed the galaxy to recruit again for one HELL of a party, and blowing the living **** out of all opposition?  And let's get a third Krogan squadmate.  Just for the hell of it.

That would be 12 DLCs, at 10 dollars each, released AFTER LAUNCH over the course of maybe two years (one every two months) and if it were done that way, I can truthfully say that I'd have bought every single one. Well, besides Mordin. Good guy that I am, there's no way for me to save him. Le'sigh. But hey, this way works out better, right? Since BioWare didn't just go for the money, and instead insisted that "art" that drives a huge wedge into your customer base is a better decision. Because it really is, right?

Starboy: "That's right, BioWare! You need to drive your customers away now, because in the future they might stop buying your games!  Now, let me whip out my Starboy wand and paint your offices either Red, Blue, or Green!  :wizard:"

Actually this is similar to what I wish they had done.  They could have made ME3 into 2 games or one game with great DLC.  Make part one be about getting all this stuff together to fight the reapers and then maybe the rest about the real fighting.  Part of the problem as I see it is again about reality intervening.  Voice actors, writers, and all that stuff has to be coordinated with all the other projects these other people have going on.  I personally feel that ME could have gone on forever (if this dreck is fixed) with Shepard and company.  Why not a real reaper chase and fight and then after that perhaps the goal to find who was behind the reapers (and I don't mean some star kid).  I mean a search for who created them and why, or for their origins.  Part of me sees them as the experiment in AI that went wrong and then like Data on Star Trek TNG, they have for millions of years been trying to become more like their creators, more human.  And over time it just got really warped.  I mean there's that one derelict reaper in ME2, that's tens of millions of years old and was destroyed in some battle.  Millions of years of searching for something.  And it's often referred to as perfection.  I think there's a great story there.  There were many indications of them having found it in humans.  But, what is it?

Ah well.  So many great peripheral characters also had some great interaction with Shepard

I so would have liked to have understood what the Collectors were doing or looking for in searching human colonies for genetic mutations.  I would have liked to know what was happening to the people of Zhu's Hope with those Thorian spores in their bodies.

I really would have paid for DLC that would have delved into side missions on Omega (what happened to Patriarch and is he really Aria's father?). 

[Redbelle]

ME was actually inspired by a manuscript unlocked in a dark celler in Stratford-Upon-Avon England. This hallowed document passed hands many times as learned men attempted to discover it's authenticity, for it made use of many a thing that our understanding of the bard, would in that he were only what he as time gone by would appear as in bodies from out of mind does breach his chains of ambition.

I managed to peak a look at the ending...........


Starchild: Dreamer I charge thee arise!

Shepard: Have at thee this flesh doth hold still true, yet doth not hold in purgatory. What thou dost behold before mine eye's plague thee far to amount to tales of the deceased and the damned yet ask I must. What be this place is either may chance a heaven or a hell?

Starchild: Whilst heaven or hell maketh for fine title's for such dwellings such as mine Citadel they bear no such consequence nor semblance to places either of or damnable rest.

Shepard: Lord in heaven have you come to thee in thine hour of most press'ed need?

Starchild: Have now, peace. For while thy thread fray you have unraveled the steps to a point where all who hath come before became undone before the journey's end. Mend thy fray in this place for I am the mender of all things that do seem seamless to eye's untrained. A stitcher of stitch's one might make of me but to the term Catalyst do I prefer.

Shepard: No lord but of lordy.....ness do I recognise the glow of your radience that I suspect one has been at rest next to an Eezo core undressed whilst engineers toil and tax their prideful joy. Be it of no concern of mine. My charge lead me to places overcast that we may live unshadowed yonder persecution of galaxy, that those who tear away all that is embraced may in turn be torn. Be that it may you have the light that will turn vengeful shadows head to tail?

...........
..........
..........
If anyones wondering what caused this check out this youtube link.
It's about pulp fiction.

Modifié par Redbelle, 19 juin 2012 - 06:17 .

[lillitheris]

Huh, I forgot these threads existed.

My mostly-original-but-small-fixes ending changes are, as always, in my signature.

[BlueStorm83]

Redbelle wrote...

ME was actually inspired by a manuscript unlocked in a dark celler in Stratford-Upon-Avon England. This hallowed document passed hands many times as learned men attempted to discover it's authenticity, for it made use of many a thing that our understanding of the bard, would in that he were only what he as time gone by would appear as in bodies from out of mind does breach his chains of ambition.

I managed to peak a look at the ending...........


Starchild: Dreamer I charge thee arise!

Shepard: Have at thee this flesh doth hold still true, yet doth not hold in purgatory. What thou dost behold before mine eye's plague thee far to amount to tales of the deceased and the damned yet ask I must. What be this place is either may chance a heaven or a hell?

Starchild: Whilst heaven or hell maketh for fine title's for such dwellings such as mine Citadel they bear no such consequence nor semblance to places either of or damnable rest.

Shepard: Lord in heaven have you come to thee in thine hour of most press'ed need?

Starchild: Have now, peace. For while thy thread fray you have unraveled the steps to a point where all who hath come before became undone before the journey's end. Mend thy fray in this place for I am the mender of all things that do seem seamless to eye's untrained. A stitcher of stitch's one might make of me but to the term Catalyst do I prefer.

Shepard: No lord but of lordy.....ness do I recognise the glow of your radience that I suspect one has been at rest next to an Eezo core undressed whilst engineers toil and tax their prideful joy. Be it of no concern of mine. My charge lead me to places overcast that we may live unshadowed yonder persecution of galaxy, that those who tear away all that is embraced may in turn be torn. Be that it may you have the light that will turn vengeful shadows head to tail?

...........
..........
..........
If anyones wondering what caused this check out this youtube link.
It's about pulp fiction.

---  Made me lol again.  Was just in some Gold matches on the Multi.  Had to pick between suck teammates who couldn't react, adapt, or help or another team that kept winning... but kept going to the same map, against the same enemies, and using the same tactics.  And when Geth Primes walked right up into their holdout zone, they never fell back, but just stood there getting killed.  Sigh.

[Redbelle]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

ME was actually inspired by a manuscript unlocked in a dark celler in Stratford-Upon-Avon England. This hallowed document passed hands many times as learned men attempted to discover it's authenticity, for it made use of many a thing that our understanding of the bard, would in that he were only what he as time gone by would appear as in bodies from out of mind does breach his chains of ambition.

I managed to peak a look at the ending...........


Starchild: Dreamer I charge thee arise!

Shepard: Have at thee this flesh doth hold still true, yet doth not hold in purgatory. What thou dost behold before mine eye's plague thee far to amount to tales of the deceased and the damned yet ask I must. What be this place is either may chance a heaven or a hell?

Starchild: Whilst heaven or hell maketh for fine title's for such dwellings such as mine Citadel they bear no such consequence nor semblance to places either of or damnable rest.

Shepard: Lord in heaven have you come to thee in thine hour of most press'ed need?

Starchild: Have now, peace. For while thy thread fray you have unraveled the steps to a point where all who hath come before became undone before the journey's end. Mend thy fray in this place for I am the mender of all things that do seem seamless to eye's untrained. A stitcher of stitch's one might make of me but to the term Catalyst do I prefer.

Shepard: No lord but of lordy.....ness do I recognise the glow of your radience that I suspect one has been at rest next to an Eezo core undressed whilst engineers toil and tax their prideful joy. Be it of no concern of mine. My charge lead me to places overcast that we may live unshadowed yonder persecution of galaxy, that those who tear away all that is embraced may in turn be torn. Be that it may you have the light that will turn vengeful shadows head to tail?

...........
..........
..........
If anyones wondering what caused this check out this youtube link.
It's about pulp fiction.

---  Made me lol again.  Was just in some Gold matches on the Multi.  Had to pick between suck teammates who couldn't react, adapt, or help or another team that kept winning... but kept going to the same map, against the same enemies, and using the same tactics.  And when Geth Primes walked right up into their holdout zone, they never fell back, but just stood there getting killed.  Sigh.

It's not everyday I can point a rocket launcher at my character feet and pull the trigger to ensure a 360 degree kill but that situation is the one of the best times.

[Rajalia]

sonicchaos wrote...


In another train of thoughts, how about the catalyst to be any reaper, more precisely Harbinger? Just to trick him into merging with the Crucible on the Citadel, it would take a great amount of thought out strategic maneuvers, a space battle in which all the fleet you gathered could participate. Also, there could even be a fight on the citadel between a really messed up Illusive Man husk, as a real boss fight. Who the hell knows, maybe there's Anderson up there too, held by the Illusive Man as a lure for Shepard, and the three of them could remember the "dream".
I don't know, thoughts out of the top of my had, my braincells are having a party right now. Just pointing out ideas, thought for the masses, doors for new interpretations.

If you saw the Mass Effect art book, it showed a concept they were originally thinking of for the Illusive Man. They considered making him this big bad nasty creature that would've been a boss fight. Instead, they felt that this wasn't in keeping with Illusive Man's style/character and scrapped it.

[3DandBeyond]

Rajalia wrote...

sonicchaos wrote...


In another train of thoughts, how about the catalyst to be any reaper, more precisely Harbinger? Just to trick him into merging with the Crucible on the Citadel, it would take a great amount of thought out strategic maneuvers, a space battle in which all the fleet you gathered could participate. Also, there could even be a fight on the citadel between a really messed up Illusive Man husk, as a real boss fight. Who the hell knows, maybe there's Anderson up there too, held by the Illusive Man as a lure for Shepard, and the three of them could remember the "dream".
I don't know, thoughts out of the top of my had, my braincells are having a party right now. Just pointing out ideas, thought for the masses, doors for new interpretations.

If you saw the Mass Effect art book, it showed a concept they were originally thinking of for the Illusive Man. They considered making him this big bad nasty creature that would've been a boss fight. Instead, they felt that this wasn't in keeping with Illusive Man's style/character and scrapped it.

I do remember that Illusive Man thing-if I'm not mistaken I do think there was something in the Final Hours about the idea of having a real boss fight with TIM.

The other thing-from the quote you cited, I do wish actually if they had to have a glowing thingy representing the reaper's boss, it should have been more a Harbinger type image.  I think the things the star kid said would still have had to be changed, because it's all stupid, but still they had Harbinger.  Why the freaking kid?

[sonicchaos]

Rajalia wrote...

sonicchaos wrote...


In another train of thoughts, how about the catalyst to be any reaper, more precisely Harbinger? Just to trick him into merging with the Crucible on the Citadel, it would take a great amount of thought out strategic maneuvers, a space battle in which all the fleet you gathered could participate. Also, there could even be a fight on the citadel between a really messed up Illusive Man husk, as a real boss fight. Who the hell knows, maybe there's Anderson up there too, held by the Illusive Man as a lure for Shepard, and the three of them could remember the "dream".
I don't know, thoughts out of the top of my had, my braincells are having a party right now. Just pointing out ideas, thought for the masses, doors for new interpretations.

If you saw the Mass Effect art book, it showed a concept they were originally thinking of for the Illusive Man. They considered making him this big bad nasty creature that would've been a boss fight. Instead, they felt that this wasn't in keeping with Illusive Man's style/character and scrapped it.

Yes, I saw that. Please don't hate me right now, but I did bought the Collectors Edition with a great amount of money, over the retail price, because it was hard to find in my country, and I don't regret it. But I can't get over the fact that ME1 and 2 were better, at least in the rpg genre, which is sad.

Modifié par sonicchaos, 19 juin 2012 - 10:50 .

[V-rcingetorix]

[quote]Archonsg wrote...

[quote]3DandBeyond wrote...[quote]BlueStorm83 wrote...---
[/quote]Which is why I think pairing MP, and only MP to have such a huge effect on EMS for a Single-Player game is just wrong. [/quote]



Agreed. I know of no other MP/SP that has the MP affect the SP. Now, I'm okay with the MP (rating around 1800...when the doggone connection holds), but I do not want it to affect my SP endings. Or gameplay, for that matter.

In addition, why are there weapons in MP that are not seen in SP? The Krysae, the Reegar etc? I can live with it, but it's a little quirk that bugs me.

Also, why do I never see the forces I have gathered fighting? No Vorcha, no Mechs, no Blue Suns (maybe they're in dusguise against that Destroyer Leaper in London?); I thought I got them with that deal in Purgatory...did Aria renege?

[V-rcingetorix]

sonicchaos wrote...

Rajalia wrote...

sonicchaos wrote...


In another train of thoughts, how about the catalyst to be any reaper, more precisely Harbinger? Just to trick him into merging with the Crucible on the Citadel, it would take a great amount of thought out strategic maneuvers, a space battle in which all the fleet you gathered could participate. Also, there could even be a fight on the citadel between a really messed up Illusive Man husk, as a real boss fight. Who the hell knows, maybe there's Anderson up there too, held by the Illusive Man as a lure for Shepard, and the three of them could remember the "dream".
I don't know, thoughts out of the top of my had, my braincells are having a party right now. Just pointing out ideas, thought for the masses, doors for new interpretations.

If you saw the Mass Effect art book, it showed a concept they were originally thinking of for the Illusive Man. They considered making him this big bad nasty creature that would've been a boss fight. Instead, they felt that this wasn't in keeping with Illusive Man's style/character and scrapped it.

Yes, I saw that. Please don't hate me right now, but I did bought the Collectors Edition with a great amount of money, over the retail price, because it was hard to find in my country, and I don't regret it. But I can't get over the fact that ME1 and 2 were better, at least in the rpg genre, which is sad.

No hate from here

I think Bioware got TIM right; he's a sneaky sono****un who would stab humanity in the back, simply because he has no moral guidelines. TIM did his part in ME2, stopping the Collectors (who I don't have a problem with, really), but TIM did not understand the reality of the situation if he wanted to keep a baby Reaper. What did he think he was going to do, make an extra large Snuggie for it? Dissect it? He'd already lost a full science team on a dead Reaper (Find Legion mission), because the "dead" reaper had Indoctrination. Why would a young Reaper be any less dangerous?

As for a final boss fight...I was disappointed. No Harbinger, nor thousands of Husks, or even an evil Sheperd clone. Wouldn't it have been awesome for the Reapers to obtain tissue (plenty of blood after their firefights) from all of Shep's crew, and then clone them? Immoral Garrus, killing-machine Thane, perm-blood-rage Grunt, a complete weapons suite in the form of Tali?

So much opportunity missed.

Wonder how this will affect the DLC ending market....I've read how people were going into the code to change decisions in ME2, could this be much harder, to merch ME3 DLC?

[BlueStorm83]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

*SNIPS*

Also, why do I never see the forces I have gathered fighting? No Vorcha, no Mechs, no Blue Suns (maybe they're in dusguise against that Destroyer Leaper in London?); I thought I got them with that deal in Purgatory...did Aria renege?

I'm personally holding the belief that the Vorcha in Multiplayer are from the Blood Pack, and am hoping and asking BioWare to add Blue Suns Batarians, Blood Pack Krogan, and some Eclipse Salarians to round out the multiplayer classes.  Could be cool to get a Blood Pack Krogan Engineer who could, like, put down turrets with flamethrowers and a close range blade incase anyone gets close to it.  Or maybe the Blue Suns Batarians would be Biotic or something.  And the Eclipse Salarians would have heave, HEAVY armor and fill the Soldier role for them.

To feed the Multiplayer Beast, they could even put in new Mercenary Packs, where you'd buy those packs (WITH CREDITS, PEOPLE!) to unlock those characters.

---  On a somewhat related note:  Every time a new Multiplayer DLC comes out, everyone- EVERYONE should get one free "New Recruit Pack" that is GUARANTEED to come with one of the new characters, chosen at random, as well as 3 Medi-gel, 3 Spec-ops kit, 3 Missiles, and 3 Ammo Clips.  That way requiring the new characters for a Weekend Event wouldn't be crapping on people with bad luck or limited play time.

Modifié par BlueStorm83, 19 juin 2012 - 11:42 .

[BlueStorm83]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

 *snippity*
As for a final boss fight...I was disappointed. No Harbinger, nor thousands of Husks, or even an evil Sheperd clone. Wouldn't it have been awesome for the Reapers to obtain tissue (plenty of blood after their firefights) from all of Shep's crew, and then clone them? Immoral Garrus, killing-machine Thane, perm-blood-rage Grunt, a complete weapons suite in the form of Tali?

AARRGGHH!  That would have been INCREDIBLE!  I would have LOVED to go up against Reaperized versions of my own people!  Though honestly, it would have made more sense for The Illusive Man to have had Cerberus make them.  He wants to "save" humanity through Reaper Tech, so why not cook up his own twisted heroes?

"I'm Cerberus Shepard, and I'm your worst nightmare on the Citadel."

Modifié par BlueStorm83, 19 juin 2012 - 11:43 .

[BlueStorm83]

--- That would have been a nice premise too. Have TIM sending his guys out there doing all kinds of horrible things, giving Shepard and crew a bad name. At first they'd look all normal and humany, but as time goes on they'd slowly be more and more corrupted, and eventually wind up looking like TIM or Saren, with all the metal and the husk eyes and the tubes sticking out of their skin. It could have been the plot of Mass Effect Four, and then had Mass Effect FIVE been the one where we take the Citadel Relay out into Dark Space with all our old crew to kill the Reaper Home, whatever the hell they have out there while they nap.

[Archonsg]

Mind you, I KNOW you can't have all the possible endings ANIMATED AND depicpted in cutscenes but you can have what I call the extremes set at the very least, ME3 ignored all. No paragon / renegade (pro galactic unity vs pro human dominance) no Absolute victory / absolute defeat, no middle ground Pyrrhic victory.

Had they done those, just 5 endings, then give an epilogue much like Dragon Age or better, have EDI / Miranda / Liara do the epilogue and have short cut scenes showing us what happened with naration.

That alone would have been EPIC.
I don't need 16 or a bizillion endings, just one for absolute defeat, one for absolute renegade victory, one for absolute paragon victory, one for renegade Pyrrhic victory, one for paragon Pyrrhic victory.

Apparently that is just too much to ask or expect from a game that touts itself as taking our choices to form an ending.

[Laurencio]

Archonsg wrote...

Mind you, I KNOW you can't have all the possible endings ANIMATED AND depicpted in cutscenes but you can have what I call the extremes set at the very least, ME3 ignored all. No paragon / renegade (pro galactic unity vs pro human dominance) no Absolute victory / absolute defeat, no middle ground Pyrrhic victory.

Had they done those, just 5 endings, then give an epilogue much like Dragon Age or better, have EDI / Miranda / Liara do the epilogue and have short cut scenes showing us what happened with naration.

That alone would have been EPIC.
I don't need 16 or a bizillion endings, just one for absolute defeat, one for absolute renegade victory, one for absolute paragon victory, one for renegade Pyrrhic victory, one for paragon Pyrrhic victory.

Apparently that is just too much to ask or expect from a game that touts itself as taking our choices to form an ending.

Although story wise an absolute defeat could be OK, I find that when I spend 100 hours on a game series I'd rather win than lose. A game over screen symbolizes absolute defeat for me. I do not need a seperate "ending" for ultimate defeat, that's just nihilistic and sad. I want to arrive at the castle and FINALY find the princess, not get to the castle and then be thrown into Lava and told I completed the game. That just feels wrong.

Modifié par Laurencio, 20 juin 2012 - 09:29 .

[JICMAN]

Not outraged like majority of gamers about the ending it just failed to meet my expectations and appered to have major changes to over theme and message of first two games
               Just my idea for ending: (just general idea)
keep everything up to talking w/ TIM, like in first game w/ Saren, TIM comes back to life due to indoctrination and reaper upgrades (mini-boss fight), active crucible but it acts as an EMP for reaper shields, here you would distribute collected resouces and armies (like squad suicide mission in ME2) to attack reapers and reaper installations, picked up by team (squad you brought on mission?), your final assault is on harbinger who is acting as reaper flagship and w/ bought Normandy upgrades you damage him enough to get inside and destroy core(like derilect reaper in ME2),shows gathered armies(turian/krogan, geth/quarian destroying reapers/ reaper troops) destruction of reapers in each system causes reaper ground forces (cannibal, husks, ect) to die/shut down, shows last epilouge scene w/ important characters ( kal reegar, mass effect squadies, Anderson, ect) being awarded for efforts,short speech about what was lost and sacrificed due to the war, hopes for better tomorrow from anderson/shepard, speech by members of crew if shepard died, shepard and garrus drinking at beach drinking w/ dead reapers in the water, shows shep w/ LI (if both are alive)

What do you guys think? ( garrus and shep at beach scene would be like a last little funny scene)
P.S sorry for wall of text...
BTW: this was my FIRST bioware post:wizard:

[darkway1]

JICMAN..... "shepard and garrus drinking at beach drinking w/ dead reapers in the water" (possible ending moment).....in my game that ending,that character can never exist because Garrus died in Mass2......a good example of how "player choice" kills the games budget.

I find it very odd that when Shepard steps into the transport beam at the end and appears on the Citadel,it's almost like your starting a new game,there's no reference to your crew,your choices,it's like a blank slate,totally detached from every thing experienced.........it's odd that Bioware made no attempt to include some reference to your experience......even the crew that walked out of the crashed Normandy seems random.

It's easy to work out how player choice vs a budget can shape the game and Bioware demonstrates that many aspects (not all) of player choice is addressed in some shape or form but at the end,the whole choice mechanic is abandoned.At least if the game ended with a Boss battle,your team is with you,or if you had different cut scenes that show case your war assets in action,at least these options give reference to your own game experience,but the present ending offers nothing at all,it almost reminds me of the beginning of Mass2....Normandy gets destroyed,Shepard crashes to earth and up pops the Mass2 logo...........Shepard hops onto the Citadel,blows everything up and up pops the Mass4 logo.........I sure hope the extended DLC actually addresses this aspect.

[3DandBeyond]

Laurencio wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Mind you, I KNOW you can't have all the possible endings ANIMATED AND depicpted in cutscenes but you can have what I call the extremes set at the very least, ME3 ignored all. No paragon / renegade (pro galactic unity vs pro human dominance) no Absolute victory / absolute defeat, no middle ground Pyrrhic victory.

Had they done those, just 5 endings, then give an epilogue much like Dragon Age or better, have EDI / Miranda / Liara do the epilogue and have short cut scenes showing us what happened with naration.

That alone would have been EPIC.
I don't need 16 or a bizillion endings, just one for absolute defeat, one for absolute renegade victory, one for absolute paragon victory, one for renegade Pyrrhic victory, one for paragon Pyrrhic victory.

Apparently that is just too much to ask or expect from a game that touts itself as taking our choices to form an ending.

Although story wise an absolute defeat could be OK, I find that when I spend 100 hours on a game series I'd rather win than lose. A game over screen symbolizes absolute defeat for me. I do not need a seperate "ending" for ultimate defeat, that's just nihilistic and sad. I want to arrive at the castle and FINALY find the princess, not get to the castle and then be thrown into Lava and told I completed the game. That just feels wrong.

Well, what many of us have said and what Archonsg is saying is that if you do things wrong in the game, there should be a real "you lost" ending.  Most people really do want something more than critical mission failure.  The point being we want the game to be less structurally like a game at the end.  It's one of the reasons the insertion of artificial choices is so hollow whereas consequences from decisions were more desirable.  It's also one reason why the MP/SP tie in is so stupid.  Shepard lives, but only if the player plays MP.

Our actions within the game should play out as consequences with choices made at the end that are more natural and not inserted so obviously.  But, a total loss should be just as possible as a complete victory within the story.  Yes, it would mean you completed the game, but more like you completed one version of the story.  You didn't do well but you really have to screw up to get this ending.  And you probably wouldn't have put in 100 hours for such an ending since it would most likely mean you didn't do some major, important things.

The main point is that there should have been a wider difference between endings with good, bad, and something in between.  As it now is, the endings lead to dumb, dumber, and dumberer with the almost identical cutscene consequences.

[Benchpress610]

Laurencio wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Mind you, I KNOW you can't have all the possible endings ANIMATED AND depicpted in cutscenes but you can have what I call the extremes set at the very least, ME3 ignored all. No paragon / renegade (pro galactic unity vs pro human dominance) no Absolute victory / absolute defeat, no middle ground Pyrrhic victory.

Had they done those, just 5 endings, then give an epilogue much like Dragon Age or better, have EDI / Miranda / Liara do the epilogue and have short cut scenes showing us what happened with naration.

That alone would have been EPIC.
I don't need 16 or a bizillion endings, just one for absolute defeat, one for absolute renegade victory, one for absolute paragon victory, one for renegade Pyrrhic victory, one for paragon Pyrrhic victory.

Apparently that is just too much to ask or expect from a game that touts itself as taking our choices to form an ending.

Although story wise an absolute defeat could be OK, I find that when I spend 100 hours on a game series I'd rather win than lose. A game over screen symbolizes absolute defeat for me. I do not need a seperate "ending" for ultimate defeat, that's just nihilistic and sad. I want to arrive at the castle and FINALY find the princess, not get to the castle and then be thrown into Lava and told I completed the game. That just feels wrong.

That’s the main argument of many pro-enders against having a “happy” ending. They adduce that the writers/creators wanted a philosophical, introspective, “artistic” and bleak ending representing the futility of life. That’s what we got.   They say that if we’d had the possibility of a victorious ending, must of us wouldn’t settle for the sad one, and they are right. They want us all to appreciate their great artistic vision even if they must take us there kicking and screaming.
 
They apparently lost sight of the media they are working on. If this were a movie or a book, that ending would’ve been perfectly fine, although I wonder how many people would buy the book or watch the movie after the first fan reviews came out. The thing is, this is a GAME. Most of us play games to have fun and ultimately WIN. At least I do.
 
I always said that if we’ve had the possibility of a victorious ending, those who want a depressing, bleak one would be very lonely in their misery.

[BlueStorm83]

JICMAN wrote...

Not outraged like majority of gamers about the ending it just failed to meet my expectations and appered to have major changes to over theme and message of first two games
               Just my idea for ending: (just general idea)
keep everything up to talking w/ TIM, like in first game w/ Saren, TIM comes back to life due to indoctrination and reaper upgrades (mini-boss fight), active crucible but it acts as an EMP for reaper shields, here you would distribute collected resouces and armies (like squad suicide mission in ME2) to attack reapers and reaper installations, picked up by team (squad you brought on mission?), your final assault is on harbinger who is acting as reaper flagship and w/ bought Normandy upgrades you damage him enough to get inside and destroy core(like derilect reaper in ME2),shows gathered armies(turian/krogan, geth/quarian destroying reapers/ reaper troops) destruction of reapers in each system causes reaper ground forces (cannibal, husks, ect) to die/shut down, shows last epilouge scene w/ important characters ( kal reegar, mass effect squadies, Anderson, ect) being awarded for efforts,short speech about what was lost and sacrificed due to the war, hopes for better tomorrow from anderson/shepard, speech by members of crew if shepard died, shepard and garrus drinking at beach drinking w/ dead reapers in the water, shows shep w/ LI (if both are alive)

What do you guys think? ( garrus and shep at beach scene would be like a last little funny scene)
P.S sorry for wall of text...
BTW: this was my FIRST bioware post:wizard:

Yes.  This is what I wanted.

---  There's no reason they couldn't have made a small scene for each character.  It didn't have to be pre-rendered, it didn't even have to include action or a new backdrop.  If Shepard died, it could have been a simple conversation between Crew Members and Hackett about how things will be now.  If Shepard LIVED, then maybe Shepard (YOU) can walk around the Normandy and chat with the crew about what their plans for the future are, now that we've won.  Have the Councillors and Hackett and Wrex and the Quarrian Admirals, and other important leaders at the Conference Table (That I ran past around 4000 times, but that was only used ONCE in the game...) and let me talk to them for a breakdown on how their worlds will fare in the aftermath.  Any less important choice results can be handled with a conversation over the communicator.  Don't need to SEE the Rachni Queen or the Thorian Girl or anyone else unimportant in person.

Though I WOULD like to see Conrad at the table with the Admirals, finally having honed his conversation Paragon choices, and bluffing his way through a talk with a Salarian Dalatress, lying madly about fake victories that he "Achieved" in the N7 program.

[3DandBeyond]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Mind you, I KNOW you can't have all the possible endings ANIMATED AND depicpted in cutscenes but you can have what I call the extremes set at the very least, ME3 ignored all. No paragon / renegade (pro galactic unity vs pro human dominance) no Absolute victory / absolute defeat, no middle ground Pyrrhic victory.

Had they done those, just 5 endings, then give an epilogue much like Dragon Age or better, have EDI / Miranda / Liara do the epilogue and have short cut scenes showing us what happened with naration.

That alone would have been EPIC.
I don't need 16 or a bizillion endings, just one for absolute defeat, one for absolute renegade victory, one for absolute paragon victory, one for renegade Pyrrhic victory, one for paragon Pyrrhic victory.

Apparently that is just too much to ask or expect from a game that touts itself as taking our choices to form an ending.

Although story wise an absolute defeat could be OK, I find that when I spend 100 hours on a game series I'd rather win than lose. A game over screen symbolizes absolute defeat for me. I do not need a seperate "ending" for ultimate defeat, that's just nihilistic and sad. I want to arrive at the castle and FINALY find the princess, not get to the castle and then be thrown into Lava and told I completed the game. That just feels wrong.

That’s the main argument of many pro-enders against having a “happy” ending. They adduce that the writers/creators wanted a philosophical, introspective, “artistic” and bleak ending representing the futility of life. That’s what we got.   They say that if we’d had the possibility of a victorious ending, must of us wouldn’t settle for the sad one, and they are right. They want us all to appreciate their great artistic vision even if they must take us there kicking and screaming.
 
They apparently lost sight of the media they are working on. If this were a movie or a book, that ending would’ve been perfectly fine, although I wonder how many people would buy the book or watch the movie after the first fan reviews came out. The thing is, this is a GAME. Most of us play games to have fun and ultimately WIN. At least I do.
 
I always said that if we’ve had the possibility of a victorious ending, those who want a depressing, bleak one would be very lonely in their misery.

The end point there is very true.  I'd think that if one consequence was a possibly totally bleak one, it might be something I'd play once intentionally just to see the outcome, but since I could envision several different types of total victory with some personalized cutscenes and/or even end choices, I'd opt for the victory on all other playthroughs.

I actually don't think would have had that much trouble incorporating our personal preferences into the ending.  If someone isn't alive through some fault of Shepard's or the player's, well then they just are not there.  If Shepard liked someone more than the others (some people actually never even chose any love interest), well I think that could have been incorporated into it too.  For instance, if certain dialogue choices were never made (like you never shot bottles with Garrus atop the Citadel), then maybe he wasn't that close a friend.  Or, if you didn't ever talk to Jacob and find out he's going to be a father, then well you'd never see or have the option to see his baby. 

Why couldn't there have been some end pieces where you revisit these people in their environments?  Go to Tuchanka, Rannock, Grissom.  Get a message from Miranda inviting you to meet Ori and her family.  Meet Garrus in a bar and discuss Palaven or whatever.  You know why this couldn't happen?  Because they freaking destroyed the relays.

[3DandBeyond]

I've wondered about indoctrination and just what could have taken place if this ending is some sort of hallucination-which I'd rather see than indoctrination. More of a temporary mind control than the permanent indoctrination control. Scientists are even now exploring mind control through the use of electronic pulses or frequencies. And though there are some pretty stupid parts all throughout the London mission (phone calls to friends, heavy weapons left laying on the ground), most of us see the worst deviation from the story as occurring once Harbinger's beam hits Shepard. I see this as some possible acute form of mind control taking place. Harbinger (IIRC) had three beams, so possibly more than one type of beam. One a laser that instantly vaporizes (this didn't happen to Shepard), one that maybe can kill but not vaporize (teammates can be killed by this) and a third beam that could achieve this instantaneous mind control/hallucination effect.

There's a picture on the wiki of Harbinger by the Citadel conduit and it shows him shooting out 2 beams at once, so maybe one killed people and the one that hit Shepard caused this craziness.

Part of what we know or are told about Indoctrination is that it is pernicious and chronic-takes place over time but the longer it's in effect the worse it is to the person being indoctrinated. I see a more acute mind control attempt as something that would not have longterm effects, would be more instantly debilitating (Shepard might only think s/he's been injured severely) and could cause dissociation. Consider that even now people that experience lower level electromagnetic (EMF or electromagnetic frequency or field) effects become nauseated, often hallucinatory, and experience sometimes feelings of being watched or even see ghost images (oily shadows, like those around TIM). Such people are way more open to suggestion as well. If the person is moved out of EMF range, the effects go away fairly quickly.

Harbinger is shown to have unique control abilities (perhaps Sovereign as well). But, I prefer the idea of a mind control attempt and hallucination over full indoctrination. I see anything that happens after as false and that should Shepard make the "right" choice and not what the star kid wants, that what the Crucible does is really sends out an alternate pulse that disrupts the reapers, perhaps it severs a link between all of them and drops their shields, shuts off whatever may be controlling them (if something is) from the Citadel. But it also returns to Crucible to the true definition of what a Crucible is, a test.

[mick_dingwall]

I don't know what the chances are of bioware reading this but here we go for suggestions.

Probaly all stuff thats been said before but with 900 or so pages I will post before i search lol.

1.  Finding the Crucible plans immediatly after starting the game?

What the heck gives with this. Kinda rubbed me the wrong way to be honest for the last 2 or so years we have been trying to stop the reapers and here they are attacking and we still have no clue as to how to stop them. Then after the intro I go to mars and boom plans for a superweapon just fall into my lap. 

You realy should add some extra missions or something that lead you into chasing down leads which eventualy  have you sneaking back into your home solar system to dig around at mars to get the plans. Then go from there.

2.  More in depth Asari and Salarian and Geth  recruitment missions.  You only seemed to focas on recruiting Turians, Krogan, Qaurians.  With a slaped on argument between the qaurians and geth leading to a peaceful ending. Maybe work it in as a DLC or something.

More posibilities for recruitment missions would be maybe do some for the mercenaries.  Given that I spent the entirety of ME2 killing off all the mercenaries in the known universe. You would think it should take a little more effort to get them to help the person that just got done slaughtering them all. Not to mention killing their respective leaders.

Rachni would be another I would love to see.  I went to the effort of saving her in ME1 and again I saved her in ME3.  There should be some more missions to help her take back her children from the reapers or get some ships for her unprocessed children to join up with the alliance.

3.  End Space Battle Cinematics.  Maybe i missed some or forgot some but the space battle cinematics just seemed a touch weak.  I guess I found the cinematics of the first game and second game to be a little more compelling and seat gripping good.

Maybe have them turn up escorting the Crucible and when the reapers attack have some of the Mercernaries I recruited come outa FTL or something to ambush them from the side. Oh what about the Rachni?  I saved the queen and she promised to help but she sure as hell wasnt going to do it  when i finaly met up with her. Conned her into helping by saving her life again.  So why no Rachni ships in the fight?

4.  A BOSS FIGHT .  There needs to be a boss fight at some point before you make a run for the transporter beam.  Someone to stand up and say you want in there you gotta go through me.  I remember the insane rocket spaming  wall and ceiling  crawling Saren with a never ending shield. That was a fun fight on the hardest difficulty. 

Then you had the Human reaper  which certainly had me holding my breath while madly trying to get some walls between me and the breath weapon with Harbinger breathing down my neck and spaming me with cover breakers.  Both were rather good boss fights.

But then you get to the end of ME3 and find after killing off a couple of brutes and banshees that attack at the same time the doors are left wide open.  No boss to stand between you and your goal of trying to activate the crucible. What gives?  So yeah a boss for that section would be a great addition to the game and frankly I dont know why they didnt have one in there to start with.

5. Additional Cinematics for the events of your crew after you manage to not die while charging the transporter.

Last i saw Liara was right next to me. She certainly was not kicking around  when I got up and limped onward.  So how did she get back to the normandy. Why was the normandy making a relay jump when i set the crucible off.  Just feels like you snipped some important info out of the game right there.

6. Despite what others feel I liked the endings there could of been more possibilties open to us considering all the endings we chose over the previous games. But I pretty happy with the endings supplied.  I do understand you wanting to sacrifice shep.

Now that the starchild explained it a number of comments the reapers have let slip finaly fell into place in my head, inluding why the reapers do what they do.
 
I just felt you should of had a bit more closure with what my crew went on to do with their lives or even if they did live though the battle.  The only people I saw actualy alive at the end of it all was joker, edi, and liara.  What the heck happend to the rest. 

To that end maybe flash a pic up with a blurb of if they lived or died , what they went on to do with their lives did they have kids etc etc.

Anyways those are my suggestions to improve ME3. Even if they were added in as a DLC I would certainly pay to make the game that much more epic.   Though others might just start rioting if you asked them to pay for it lol.

Anyways thanks for your time.  Now to start drumming my fingers waiting on DA3

[dorktainian]

just admit sheps been dead since the beginning of Mass Effect 2, and its all been a dream.

Then we can go back to playing RPGs