23455 réponses à ce sujet

[BearlyHere]

UWxMaserati wrote...

Playing the Mass Effect series was like casually seeing a supermodel, finding out she's actually interested in you, dating her for a while thinking it's to good to be true while you willingly spend all this money on bonus fancy dinners, then when that moment finally comes and you lay her down and kick your Maurader Shields attempting C blocking roommate out so you can cash in on the ultimate goal... you discover a wang between her legs.

The ending made me feel mislead, betrayed, cheated, and violently ill.

The ending is The Crying Game.

[Heiwa no Senso]

Redbelle wrote...

Heiwa no Senso wrote...

is it just me, or does the way the space-brat presents the reapers sound alot like preventative war...
preventative war is when you wage war on something because there is a chance that they might be a threat/ create synthetics that kill everything. an example of this is the pretext America used to invade in iraq the early 2000s (chance that iraq might have WMDs). It is not recognised as a reason to start a war .

Funnily enough I've been converting ME3's ending into shakespere here. What can I say I got bored with keyboard and an internet connection. I've been caught doing wor......... other things.

Since I'm keeping to the script, but find that there is not enough dialogue to avoid plot holes, I've been extrapolating possibilities from what has been said and insinuating through metaphor events and motive.

Put it another way. The WMD event described above was deemed an awful decision as no WMD's were found. But imagine in an alternative history a nation like Iraq that did have WMD's that no one knew about and used them. Suddenly there would be a precedent for searching for weapons like in Iraq as the consequences of the previous nation were felt.

In this way the Cat's actions are justified, at least in his mind and to a certain extent ours, because it no longer is a paper exercise. In the Cat's potential history Synth's really did rise up and nearly wipe out all the orgs.

true, every machine, even the catalyst has its maker.
but for the most part, we have no clue who thought of the catalysts childish reasoning to toss organics away as if they were nothing but toys, "ascension" be damned.

[dspeed93]

Honestly, I appreciate that ME team wanted to give us something shocking an unexpected for the ending. I really do appreciate that. However, I - along with many others apparently - feel the team simply screwed up. Giving an unexpected ending is cool and all, but if you can't make that ending make sense, then don't do it.

Most of us would've been happy with something along these lines:

Shepard begins to black out as he sits next to the dead Anderson. Hackett comes over the comm, alerting Shepard to the fact that the crucible hasn't activated. Shepard struggles over to the terminal, barely conscious. He reaches the terminal as he collapses, his hand grazes over the terminal and he passes out. Cut scenes to the crucible somehow destroying all the reapers, without magically wiping out all synthetic life - wtf was that all about really. Celebrations (yayyy!). Skip to a few years later to some type of squad reunion or something at Shep's home. See all the old squaddies and whatnot, Shep and the LI have some kids or a pet varren or something. And we learn that Shep's decisions really mattered.

Who dominated the Council now?
What happed to the Krogan, Turians, Geth, Quarians, and all the other races?
How f*cked up is the galaxy in the reaper's aftermath?
What the f*ck happened when the war ended?!

It could've been that simple and nearly everyone would've been satisfied.

[meezookeewee]

Archonsg wrote...

@meezookeewee

How about saying "Enough us enough, we are mad as hell and won't take this anymore! "

Seriously, think about it.
Every time a game is shipped short, shipped with bugs and coding errors that should never had left alpha stage, shipped with shoddy and lazy design (like repeated use of the same maps for different areas, like oh, I don't know, Dragon Age 2) and misleading statements and hype designed to sell you a game without the features you were lead to believe to have, you are told "what's the big deal deal, it is just a game." Games are now being shipped incomplete, expecting you to buy a DLC for the ending. It is already being done. I just don't like that idea enough to complain.

"Enough is enough."

How about saying "yeah, it us just a game but not what I paid for, and I want what I was told I was to get. I don't want my money back because in honesty, how much value can you put to 5 years in the waiting and several hundred hours of play time that I felt is now rendered void due to this ending? "

Since that kind of thing isn't quantifiable, I won't ask, but if Bioware wants to pay per hour consulting rates, sure.

You have some valid points, and I certainly agree with you on Dragon Age 2, but I think you have to choose whether or not to get pissed over features that a company left out unintentionally or otherwise.  I understand people were not happy about the end of Mass Effect 3, I get it.  I see thread after thread after thread about the same damn thing.  But to go on about it months after the fact?  THAT'S obsession.  When the Extended Cut is released, I think people need to move on.  If you're satisfied by it?  Great.  Not Satisfied?  Fine, feel free to take your hard-earned money elsewhere and just get over it.  People are allowing themselves to get worked up over something that, in the long run, just isn't that big of a deal.  You say, "enough is enough?"  The same could be applied to the fans here.  As I said before, there's a line between passion and obsession, but a good number of people here can't tell the difference, or choose not to.

[Ausnuk]

I just finished ME3 yesterday.  I lost all my saves thanks to my XBOX dieing on me so I haved just played all the games back to back over the last couple months.  I just want to say to all involved in the making of these games Thank You.  It has been the single greatest gaming experience of my life. 

I loved the ending.  Maybe it is because I haved played them all in a row that the grey area of Shepard geting up to the Citadal was less of a let down for me than most and the lack on detail for the remaining characters actually did not bother me except for my LI. I was playing Shepard and that is why  I loved the choices you were presented with because really how much could this crucible really do seeing that no one knew what it would do in the first place.  A game based on good /bad decision to affect the storyline could only truly leave with those decision in the end. Standing at the end with the choices I felt a deep peace with all I have done that in the end the only way to succeed was to let go of the character I have loved playing all these years  

The lack of detail for the remaining characters is where it lacked for me but only in the moment i saw my LI (Liara) with no sense of emotion for what we had.  To invest that time through all three games and make it end like that was hard.

I am left with the loss of the single best character I haved played in my gaming life to this point. I dare say no games will have the lasting effect this one has had for me.  I look forward to replaying them from the begining if only to remind me of how I loved playing, no being Shepard. 

[3DandBeyond]

Ausnuk wrote...

I just finished ME3 yesterday.  I lost all my saves thanks to my XBOX dieing on me so I haved just played all the games back to back over the last couple months.  I just want to say to all involved in the making of these games Thank You.  It has been the single greatest gaming experience of my life. 

I loved the ending.  Maybe it is because I haved played them all in a row that the grey area of Shepard geting up to the Citadal was less of a let down for me than most and the lack on detail for the remaining characters actually did not bother me except for my LI. I was playing Shepard and that is why  I loved the choices you were presented with because really how much could this crucible really do seeing that no one knew what it would do in the first place.  A game based on good /bad decision to affect the storyline could only truly leave with those decision in the end. Standing at the end with the choices I felt a deep peace with all I have done that in the end the only way to succeed was to let go of the character I have loved playing all these years  

The lack of detail for the remaining characters is where it lacked for me but only in the moment i saw my LI (Liara) with no sense of emotion for what we had.  To invest that time through all three games and make it end like that was hard.

I am left with the loss of the single best character I haved played in my gaming life to this point. I dare say no games will have the lasting effect this one has had for me.  I look forward to replaying them from the begining if only to remind me of how I loved playing, no being Shepard. 

The biggest problem with your whole statement-well, there's 2...Many people played the games all in a row, too in preparation for ME3 AND were extremely let down by the ending.  It would make more sense if you had never played 1 and 2, actually because of all the retconning that was done, but even then it doesn't make sense.  I've gone back and played them all in a row and the endings make far less sense when doing that.  As a matter of fact, one of the marketing guys for the game said they figured people would have forgotten a lot of what was in the games.

The other is saying, "because really how much could this crucible really do seeing that no one knew what it would do in the first place".  And this contains 2 problems at least in it.  The crucible apparently can do plenty-way more than most of us figure it should be able to do.  It's a magical space beam that can combine all DNA into one new amazing DNA, it can allow total control of the reapers by a dead guy (girl), and it can destroy all synthetic life while preserving the galaxy.  And it does all this effortlessly while killing Shepard, except...if your EMS isn't sufficiently high then Earth shall be vaporized and if you the god of all ME, play multi-player and get a high enough EMS, then that amazingly hard to destroy destructo tube that blows up in Shepard's face and kills him/her, apparently doesn't make a big enough boom and Shepard can "live".  It's amazing just how much it can do.

The second part of all this is quite accurate-no one knew what it would do and yet, they decided to pool all these valuable resources and all that time and make something that might do exactly NOTHING.  And they somehow must gain the expertise to make a thing that makes a magic space beam-sure they used the plans, but you still need to have some idea of what you are putting together in order to put it together.  Just reading the plans and directions for such a thing could take forever.

Lastly, since you loved "being" Shepard as did the rest of us, please tell me what you loved the most about Shepard at the end, when the Catalyst kid is talking too him.  You see most of us at that moment see our Shepard's go from being either the ultimate badass or hero or both to a spineless jellyfish unable to utter one word of protest over statements the kid makes that have been refuted within the game.  Many of us see Shepard willingly commit suicide in order to achieve abhorrent results.  My Shepard united the geth and quarian, but even someone who didn't do that would have resolved the crisis between them and then have seen the created won't always destroy the creator.

Many of us see the choices as ridiculous non-options and find "reject" the more appropriate decision to make-that or almost anything other than Destroy (genocide), Synthesis (godhood, destruction of the free will of others, magic), Control (another form of godhood and something no one else who was ever told they could control the reapers could do-TIM, for one).  Others also see slavery mixed in there too.

And then there's all the rest of the gobbledigook.  Mass Relays seem to be destroyed which should mean the destruction or ruination of the star systems where relays are.  Joker magically transports your team members from London (how without a shuttle pilot and how could he do this so quickly and why would he do this).  The lovely garden of eden scene where everyone that matters to you gets stranded who knows where.  And then the star gazer scene that takes place 10,000 years from now, when they don't yet have interstellar travel.

Personally, there's way more I didn't like, and yes, you are free to like it.  That's for you to say and not me.  But please don't think we haven't explored this from every angle and that we have no fresh understanding of the previous 2 games.  We do.  But, I will say even you in "liking" the ending found it lacking.  That's not the reaction they were going for.

[Ausnuk]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ausnuk wrote...

I just finished ME3 yesterday.  I lost all my saves thanks to my XBOX dieing on me so I haved just played all the games back to back over the last couple months.  I just want to say to all involved in the making of these games Thank You.  It has been the single greatest gaming experience of my life. 

I loved the ending.  Maybe it is because I haved played them all in a row that the grey area of Shepard geting up to the Citadal was less of a let down for me than most and the lack on detail for the remaining characters actually did not bother me except for my LI. I was playing Shepard and that is why  I loved the choices you were presented with because really how much could this crucible really do seeing that no one knew what it would do in the first place.  A game based on good /bad decision to affect the storyline could only truly leave with those decision in the end. Standing at the end with the choices I felt a deep peace with all I have done that in the end the only way to succeed was to let go of the character I have loved playing all these years  

The lack of detail for the remaining characters is where it lacked for me but only in the moment i saw my LI (Liara) with no sense of emotion for what we had.  To invest that time through all three games and make it end like that was hard.

I am left with the loss of the single best character I haved played in my gaming life to this point. I dare say no games will have the lasting effect this one has had for me.  I look forward to replaying them from the begining if only to remind me of how I loved playing, no being Shepard. 

The biggest problem with your whole statement-well, there's 2...Many people played the games all in a row, too in preparation for ME3 AND were extremely let down by the ending.  It would make more sense if you had never played 1 and 2, actually because of all the retconning that was done, but even then it doesn't make sense.  I've gone back and played them all in a row and the endings make far less sense when doing that.  As a matter of fact, one of the marketing guys for the game said they figured people would have forgotten a lot of what was in the games.

The other is saying, "because really how much could this crucible really do seeing that no one knew what it would do in the first place".  And this contains 2 problems at least in it.  The crucible apparently can do plenty-way more than most of us figure it should be able to do.  It's a magical space beam that can combine all DNA into one new amazing DNA, it can allow total control of the reapers by a dead guy (girl), and it can destroy all synthetic life while preserving the galaxy.  And it does all this effortlessly while killing Shepard, except...if your EMS isn't sufficiently high then Earth shall be vaporized and if you the god of all ME, play multi-player and get a high enough EMS, then that amazingly hard to destroy destructo tube that blows up in Shepard's face and kills him/her, apparently doesn't make a big enough boom and Shepard can "live".  It's amazing just how much it can do.

The second part of all this is quite accurate-no one knew what it would do and yet, they decided to pool all these valuable resources and all that time and make something that might do exactly NOTHING.  And they somehow must gain the expertise to make a thing that makes a magic space beam-sure they used the plans, but you still need to have some idea of what you are putting together in order to put it together.  Just reading the plans and directions for such a thing could take forever.

Lastly, since you loved "being" Shepard as did the rest of us, please tell me what you loved the most about Shepard at the end, when the Catalyst kid is talking too him.  You see most of us at that moment see our Shepard's go from being either the ultimate badass or hero or both to a spineless jellyfish unable to utter one word of protest over statements the kid makes that have been refuted within the game.  Many of us see Shepard willingly commit suicide in order to achieve abhorrent results.  My Shepard united the geth and quarian, but even someone who didn't do that would have resolved the crisis between them and then have seen the created won't always destroy the creator.

Many of us see the choices as ridiculous non-options and find "reject" the more appropriate decision to make-that or almost anything other than Destroy (genocide), Synthesis (godhood, destruction of the free will of others, magic), Control (another form of godhood and something no one else who was ever told they could control the reapers could do-TIM, for one).  Others also see slavery mixed in there too.

And then there's all the rest of the gobbledigook.  Mass Relays seem to be destroyed which should mean the destruction or ruination of the star systems where relays are.  Joker magically transports your team members from London (how without a shuttle pilot and how could he do this so quickly and why would he do this).  The lovely garden of eden scene where everyone that matters to you gets stranded who knows where.  And then the star gazer scene that takes place 10,000 years from now, when they don't yet have interstellar travel.

Personally, there's way more I didn't like, and yes, you are free to like it.  That's for you to say and not me.  But please don't think we haven't explored this from every angle and that we have no fresh understanding of the previous 2 games.  We do.  But, I will say even you in "liking" the ending found it lacking.  That's not the reaction they were going for.

Thank You for the response.  I want to say fist I dont want to take anything away from all those that wanted more answers.  Indeed I myself want more from the ending from what I said In my first post.  I have read so much of this thread and just did not want rehash or indeed reopen any wounds.  So please accept my apologises to anyone that may have felt my post to be to short and thoughtless.

 I admit to that I am fresh off the the ending of the game and I have been taken in by the completion of the trilogy and sadness that comes from not being able to continue a journey with the character.  I know in time I will see all that was unanswered and start questioning.  Did they do enough given what they have done in the first two games? Sadly I fear I will come to the same conclusion and want an answer that fulfils what I felt was a miss.  

I stand by the premise of having the three choices made up of the core princples of what the game is in the end, but reconise that they do not truly reflect the possiblities that should of come from it.

Thank You again for your reply it has reminded me of what makes these such great games.  It is the passion we have for these games, no one can deny that. Well i hope not:crying:.

[ld1449]

The ending as it stands, sits as thus-

Mass slavery

Mass Molestation

Mass Genocide

Take your pick, and feel like a hero...

[Andy the Black]

meezookeewee wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Its a game people.

2%

Sorry, but that "its only a game" bs is just that, BS.

What the hell is rong with with having passion for a game? I fail to see how having a passion for a game is anything less then having a passion for a band, or a film, or any art from. I can't even see how it's any different from having a passion for a sports team.

What's wrong is that the line between passion and obsession often gets blurred.  I'm passionate about Mass Effect myself, but I don't let the crap ending ruin my day.  Why should it?  And that's seems to be the issue that Thantos144 is bringing up, and he's right.  At the end of the day, it is just a game.  Just like a music band is just a music band and a sports team is just a sports team.  It's simply a matter of perspective.  I wouldn't knock somebody because they're a fan of something.  I will knock them for taking it to ridiculous levels, like saying the crappy ending makes them depressed.  The people who allow the ending to make them depressed clearly don't have their s**t together.  So, yes, there is a line between passion and obsession and I would strongly urge people not to cross it.

Believe me, I am all too aware of the fine line between passion and obsession. However I don't think anyone here is obsessed. Well, at lest most of us aren't . I am still upset about the Mass 3 ending, but I have not let it ruin my enjoyment for gaming, a passion/obsession I have enjoyed for over 20 years, nor have I let it consume my every waking thought. And I am truly happy you haven't let it get to. But what I'm saying is, I see my entire nation shut down to get behind a Football (or... *sigh* Soccer for my colonial friends) team all the time and when they loss, as they inevitably always do, the whole whole country seems to go into mourning. Then they **** and whine about it for days, weeks, and somtimes years. I see people go insane for bands, paying huge amounts of money to see them live, or for merchandise off eBay. And then when they go splitsville they set up counseling in schools and on phone lines for bereft fans. But when us gamers aren't happy with somthng, and try do somthing constructive about it, like rase 1000's for charity, we're told it's "just a game", to "suck it up", and that we're whiny and entitled. Have some maybe taken it to far? Yes. Do I get a bit sick of reading commends on EVERYTHING Bio post on  Facebook? Hell yes. But I am also sick of people looking down on us as if what we care about doesn't matter.

*phew* That was quite the pointless rant.

[Al-Qiliqi]

So what are the latest news on this issue?

[Andy the Black]

Al-Qiliqi wrote...

So what are the latest news on this issue?

For the latest news see page 1.

[3DandBeyond]

Andy the Black wrote...


Believe me, I am all too aware of the fine line between passion and obsession. However I don't think anyone here is obsessed. Well, at lest most of us aren't . I am still upset about the Mass 3 ending, but I have not let it ruin my enjoyment for gaming, a passion/obsession I have enjoyed for over 20 years, nor have I let it consume my every waking thought. And I am truly happy you haven't let it get to. But what I'm saying is, I see my entire nation shut down to get behind a Football (or... *sigh* Soccer for my colonial friends) team all the time and when they loss, as they inevitably always do, the whole whole country seems to go into mourning. Then they **** and whine about it for days, weeks, and somtimes years. I see people go insane for bands, paying huge amounts of money to see them live, or for merchandise off eBay. And then when they go splitsville they set up counseling in schools and on phone lines for bereft fans. But when us gamers aren't happy with somthng, and try do somthing constructive about it, like rase 1000's for charity, we're told it's "just a game", to "suck it up", and that we're whiny and entitled. Have some maybe taken it to far? Yes. Do I get a bit sick of reading commends on EVERYTHING Bio post on  Facebook? Hell yes. But I am also sick of people looking down on us as if what we care about doesn't matter.

*phew* That was quite the pointless rant.

That is right on the money.  There are many people that dress up and go to comic conventions or SF ones and all.  One person's obsession is another person's joy.  What is true of some of this is epitomized in the Star Trek (original) fan, the Trekkie.  Had these people not existed there would have been no Picard (love that guy), no STTNG.  Now, I wasn't a big fan of the original (my brother's favorite so that was his tv pick and we had one tv), but I did like the Next Generation.

Now to think of a Trekkie, a lot of those people seemed obsessed to me, but then they went home and lived other lives.  One lady however got called for jury duty and showed up wearing her "uniform".  That's taking it too far.

It's when the lines between reality and fiction become blurred.  And, it's like a stalker mentality.  You can absolutely love a movie star you see on the screen, but when you think that person loves you back and they don't even know you, well that's a problem.

With ME, I think we all use a lot of hyperbole as does any fan.  And feelings do enter into it.  But, it's the same with anything.  I love photography.  I've bought my share of expensive cameras, saved money for them or used a tax refund.  My first good camera (35mm) stopped working a month after I bought it-this is a common curse that has repeated itself many times since with anything I've bought, so I'm now not allowed to pick out and buy things like this for myself-no lie.  Anyway, I loved that camera.  Beautiful rich photos.  So, when it stopped working and I had to send it in to be fixed under warranty, I was depressed.  But, that word is thrown around loosely and is not true depression.  It's more correct to say, I was very sad.  And that is what most people feel that didn't like ME3's end.  They will say they were depressed, but mean sad.

The other point is that we all go on about our lives and do other things, but still do feel it's important to apply some measure of pressure over this.  For me, it is quite true that I'm not as interested in other video games, but that isn't just due to the end of ME3.  It's also because of how much I liked the ME series.  But, I tend to like to play games to death-I don't get all achievements always, but I do like to play through the ones I like over again.  ME was the game(s) I had been waiting for since I started gaming over 30 years ago.  It wasn't perfect, but it was like an interactive movie where you directed the actors.  The sad fact is, given the state of gaming today, few games are as compelling.  And none hit all the notes that ME did.  That doesn't mean I don't play others, but I think I need something shiny and new in video gaming (as well as something great in the EC).  The problem is I was already on the fence since so many games have been pretty disappointing lately.  ME3 just reinforced this.  I used to love to pre-order and get release day delivery.  I don't think I'll do that for awhile after this.

[3DandBeyond]

I just wanted to share some information regarding another game that is on point with much of the criticism here for ME.

We all know that the paid game reviewers by and large have been with Bioware on this all the way, even fueling the perception of those expressing dislike for the ending as entitled whiners.

Well of course another game was released recently (in May) that has gotten some fan outrage as well and again has paid reviewers backing the dev, Blizzard. Fans are disgusted that the DRM that is used for the game, Diablo III, requires a constant online connection for persistent authentication. Fans objected to this and a Forbes' writer stated there was no reason for this and that Blizzard was abusing its position in the industry and setting a dangerous precedent. Of course many industry reviewers sided with Blizzard over this.

But, one really important point was made on the website, Gaming Blend (cinemablend.com).

Again this is regarding DiabloIII from a wikipedia entry regarding the game:

Gaming Blend countered negative journalism aimed at the game's fanbase. It claims that the industry at large is far too defensive of production companies' actions to the point of accepting backward steps in game availability. It dismisses the existence of "entitlement" saying that while a large portion of 0/10 reviews do not reflect the quality of the game, they nonetheless reflect the dissatisfaction with the product.


This is a link to Gaming Blend's view on what is happening in the gaming industry and their feeling that a watchdog is needed.

http://www.cinemable...hdog-43735.html

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 22 juin 2012 - 01:27 .

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I just wanted to share some information regarding another game that is on point with much of the criticism here for ME.

We all know that the paid game reviewers by and large have been with Bioware on this all the way, even fueling the perception of those expressing dislike for the ending as entitled whiners.

Well of course another game was released recently (in May) that has gotten some fan outrage as well and again has paid reviewers backing the dev, Blizzard. Fans are disgusted that the DRM that is used for the game, Diablo III, requires a constant online connection for persistent authentication. Fans objected to this and a Forbes' writer stated there was no reason for this and that Blizzard was abusing its position in the industry and setting a dangerous precedent. Of course many industry reviewers sided with Blizzard over this.

But, one really important point was made on the website, Gaming Blend (cinemablend.com).

Again this is regarding DiabloIII from a wikipedia entry regarding the game:

Gaming Blend countered negative journalism aimed at the game's fanbase. It claims that the industry at large is far too defensive of production companies' actions to the point of accepting backward steps in game availability. It dismisses the existence of "entitlement" saying that while a large portion of 0/10 reviews do not reflect the quality of the game, they nonetheless reflect the dissatisfaction with the product.


This is a link to Gaming Blend's view on what is happening in the gaming industry and their feeling that a watchdog is needed.

http://www.cinemable...hdog-43735.html

Its all a conspiracy huh? All to screw you over right?

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

 Its all a conspiracy huh? All to screw you over right?

Uh, I'm pretty sure that if you had even the minimum abiltiy to read you would see I never said anything about a conspiracy.   Rather, I have often stated that the industry keeps racing to the bottom as to how little game they can actually give for the most amount of money you will pay.  I am not alone in this feeling.

Diablo 3 was a highly anticipated title-it is getting low marks from fans due to the need for a persistent online authentication DRM and the use of micro-transactions (real money) to buy gear needed in the game.

Please quote where I said this was a conspiracy.  Conspiracy indicates collusion of some sort, and I've not said there was any such thing.

I have however stated that companies are tending to take fans for granted and releasing games before they are finished, fixed, and ready to be released.

I have also stated previously that I have been in private beta testing for games (not ME) and I've seen first hand that companies do not fix even important things reported in the private betas before selling games.  Many such issues can be repeated hundreds of times by beta testers and are much easier to fix while a game is still in development than they can be once the game has been released.

With ME3, there are actual known issues that cannot be fixed using patches-because the problem is once a game has been released, patching it can introduce further problems.  While a game is in development, on the contrary the cascading problems a patch might cause can be addressed much more easily.  A patch that breaks something else however requires another patch which again might break something further.

As far as my comments on paid reviewers being fully behind game companies-that's a fact, not conjecture.  Impartial observers are stating this is so, and the comments being leveled at fans by some of these reviewers is proof of that.  This does not occur in too many other industries to this extent.  I've stated that it does not occur in literary circles-few literary reviewers will tow the party line because they care about their credibility.  Publishing houses and authors do not always love literary reviewers, but Bioware put one game reviewer in Shepard's bed.  The big difference is paid reviewers owe some of their salary (most of it) to the advertising they generate for the game developer.  I don't see this so much as collusion as just plain bad choices and invisible pressure brought to bear on reviewers.  They are set up to want to like big title games and find it really difficult to do anything but like them.  Reviews tend to become merely ads with window dressing, but it's unknown how much is conscious effort and how much is just gut level reaction to things.  Ultimately, their opinions should carry no more weight than that of any other fan.

Again, if you are going to try and "quote" me, please use the quote you think you are referencing and be accurate in your assessment of what I've said.  You continually misrepresent what is said for some narrow-minded purpose.  Otherwise, go live your happy idyllic life.  You know the one where you don't obsess over what's going on here.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 22 juin 2012 - 02:17 .

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

 Its all a conspiracy huh? All to screw you over right?

Uh, I'm pretty sure that if you had even the minimum abiltiy to read you would see I never said anything about a conspiracy.   Rather, I have often stated that the industry keeps racing to the bottom as to how little game they can actually give for the most amount of money you will pay.  I am not alone in this feeling.

Diablo 3 was a highly anticipated title-it is getting low marks from fans due to the need for a persistent online authentication DRM and the use of micro-transactions (real money) to buy gear needed in the game.

Please quote where I said this was a conspiracy.  Conspiracy indicates collusion of some sort, and I've not said there was any such thing.

I have however stated that companies are tending to take fans for granted and releasing games before they are finished, fixed, and ready to be released.

I have also stated previously that I have been in private beta testing for games (not ME) and I've seen first hand that companies do not fix even important things reported in the private betas before selling games.  Many such issues can be repeated hundreds of times by beta testers and are much easier to fix while a game is still in development than they can be once the game has been released.

With ME3, there are actual known issues that cannot be fixed using patches-because the problem is once a game has been released, patching it can introduce further problems.  While a game is in development, on the contrary the cascading problems a patch might cause can be addressed much more easily.  A patch that breaks something else however requires another patch which again might break something further.

As far as my comments on paid reviewers being fully behind game companies-that's a fact, not conjecture.  Impartial observers are stating this is so, and the comments being leveled at fans by some of these reviewers is proof of that.  This does not occur in too many other industries to this extent.  I've stated that it does not occur in literary circles-few literary reviewers will tow the party line because they care about their credibility.  Publishing houses and authors do not always love literary reviewers, but Bioware put one game reviewer in Shepard's bed.  The big difference is paid reviewers owe some of their salary (most of it) to the advertising they generate for the game developer.

Again, if you are going to try and "quote" me, please use the quote you think you are referencing.  Otherwise, go live your happy idyllic life.  You know the one where you don't obsess over what's going on here.

I am waiting for proof that ALL the good reviews about this game where paid for....I will wait....I know it will be a long time

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

I am waiting for proof that ALL the good reviews about this game where paid for....I will wait....I know it will be a long time

Apparently you have no idea why companies advertise on certain sites and that they pay to place those ads.

Many of them also are allowed to place links to get people to read the review and then use the link to go and buy the game-they pay for those as well.  If a review site continually slams a dev's games, they will stop getting ad revenue.  It's simple logic.  I wouldn't advertise on a site that never likes my products.

So, though I know you can't comprehend this---a company pays for ads, which gives the review site money that they use to pay reviewers.  No ads, means no money, means no jobs for reviewers.

This is why in the past the practice used to be for consumer publications to be devoid of all advertising so that no review was "owed" even in part to money paid by the creator of the thing being reviewed.

You might actually like to research who owns some of the "review" sites as well, like metacritic.  Many are actually owned by bigger media companies that in turn have financial stakes in gaming and movie companies among other things.  Hint:  Metacritic is a CBS interactive product.  Further Hint:  EA owns MTVgames.  MTV is owned by Viacom.  Viacom is a spinoff of CBS.

Metacritic metascores (professional paid reviewer's scores) for ME3 are high.  Metacritic user review scores are low.


Hint:  Game Informer is owned by Gamestop, and Gamestop sells games.  Game Informer gave ME3 glowing reviews and insulted fans that did not like the ending.  Gamestop needs games to get high ratings, because low rated games don't sell.

I'm not talking conspiracy, but I am talking about business. 

Of course it's ridiculous for you to "require" I make some list showing ALL positive reviews were paid for because some people actually, honestly and at least partly liked the endings.  But, something is way off when the majority of fans (prepared to like ME3 totally) do not like the ending, and the majority of paid reviewers do like the ending and insult people that don't.  Statistically, this makes no sense.  The percentages should be near equal if money plays no part.

Consider also that unpaid reviewers, SF writers, literary critics, literary professors, common fans and authors from across a wide spectrum also dislike the ending.  There is no reason for paid reviewers to consistently give it high marks, statistically speaking.

I've even seen videos of round table debates on the ending, where one person did really hate it, and the 2 other people at the table that supposedly liked it, did not seem to be truthful.  They gave off tells that indicate deception.  The one guy sighed loud and long before saying, hesitantly that he thought the ending was "ok", but then rated it a 10 out of 10.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 22 juin 2012 - 03:07 .

[sheppard7]

Al-Qiliqi wrote...

So what are the latest news on this issue?

Nothing new since 3 months ago when they announced they will just do more of a cutscene that doesn't change anything at all.

So yes they listened but then are just going to return a virtual middle finger back.

Any questions?

[sdinc009]

playoff52 wrote...

So I just beat the game a little bit ago....and I'm left feeling dissatisfied. All through the game I'm being struck with emotionally powerful moments in watching old friends die and saving others. Mordin's sacrifice for the Krogans, Watching Grunt attack a pack of Rachni single handedly and presumably die only to come back bathed in blood, to saving Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Samara and countless more. To watching the pained expression on Shepards face when he watches the shuttle carrying the boy get shot down. The problem for me though is that all of that powerful crecendo was ruined by a sudden drop off. I spent so many hours getting everyone to work together and saving as many as I could (even to my dismay learning of the Rachni betrayal) Only to feel deflated in the end.

For all my efforts, it all felt entirelly hollow and empty. All the sacrifice and work meaningless. Boiled down to the worst cutscene I'd ever seen. It was like watching The Grey again. All movie long Liam Neeson and friends are slowly being picked off by wolves and you keep wanting them to make a stand. Then, at a the very end it looks like he might actually do some- wait...is that the credits?

That was the ending for me. For all the power and delivery of the game, it's like it tripped and stumbled at the end. Like the end was supposed to have been longer but it was clipped short. Was my disc scratched? was production rushed? Did EA punk Bioware for a deadline?

Nevermind all the unanswered questions;
How in the hell did Anderson get to the beam when everyone was pulling back? He wasn't even ahead of me either.
The following dialog with Anderon and TIM I can take at face value or go with the Indoc theory. Eitherway really. Though the creepy blackness that seeped out made me lean on the latter after thinking about it. If that was the intent though, the delivery was failed.
Why was the Normandy running? What the hell was Joker doing? and where was he going? When did he have time to scoop up my allies and dip out from the BATTLE FOR ALL LIFE?

It just....there was too much left unsaid, unexplored or unjustly handled. All that work, and really, the only relevent part of the game boiled down to being told "Red, Green or Blue?"

Ok...I can accept that in some sense. What I can't accept is that it isn't even that relevent. I languished for so long about the choice because I'd spent my whole game fighting for all life, even synthetic! I free'd and liberated the Geth and had to watch legion sacrifice himself to that end. I nurtured Edi's humanity, and I was all around a good guy always doing what I could to help improve everyone's quality of life.

So choice in hand I go. And the only person it really felt relevent for was Shepard. Which had an emotional impact of about as long as it took for me to disinitigrate in the light stream. Then I watched Mass Relays blow up and Jokers failed escape scene.

Credits.

Old man and kid talking about shepard years from now. Now....maybe I'm callous, but I don't really care. I want to see my friends reactions personally. I want to see what they thought of my choices. Call it a sense of need for validation. Did I honor their trust in me? was it the right call? did it even make a difference?

As it is....the ending was so badly composed I just feel like I've got a sour taste in my mouth.

Total agreement, the ending is completely non-sensical and does not fit in with the rest of the ME 3 story. We all know just how you feel and we're hoping Bioware will make thing right

[sdinc009]

3DandBeyond wrote...

@playoff52,

Sorry for your experience and feelings in the wake thereof.  It is similar to how the rest of us feel.  Hollow, empty.

Unbelievable that a game and games can actually achieve the heights of dialog such as, "there's a reaper in my way, Wrex," can also contain all the BS spewed by the star kid.

The hollow, empty feeling is kind of a denial phase.  Then, with acceptance you will find anger.  Attempt to find some rationale for what exists and an arrow to the knee sounds like a fun time.

Hollow, empty, unsatisfied, etc. are all the feelings we've all experienced from this aweful excuse for and ending. And unfortunately for us all it is the first stage of dealing with the grief of the utterly abysmal failure of Bioware with what would have otherwise been a masterpiece. But as things are right now and due to Biowares inability to properly address the issue we are forces to have a continued cycle within the stages of grief until a resolution is found (ie. the EC DLC). I have personally been dealing with this abomination for 3 months now. I think I'm starting to get into the anger stage again.

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

I am waiting for proof that ALL the good reviews about this game where paid for....I will wait....I know it will be a long time

Apparently you have no idea why companies advertise on certain sites and that they pay to place those ads.

Many of them also are allowed to place links to get people to read the review and then use the link to go and buy the game-they pay for those as well.  If a review site continually slams a dev's games, they will stop getting ad revenue.  It's simple logic.  I wouldn't advertise on a site that never likes my products.

So, though I know you can't comprehend this---a company pays for ads, which gives the review site money that they use to pay reviewers.  No ads, means no money, means no jobs for reviewers.

This is why in the past the practice used to be for consumer publications to be devoid of all advertising so that no review was "owed" even in part to money paid by the creator of the thing being reviewed.

You might actually like to research who owns some of the "review" sites as well, like metacritic.  Many are actually owned by bigger media companies that in turn have financial stakes in gaming and movie companies among other things.  Hint:  Metacritic is a CBS interactive product.  Further Hint:  EA owns MTVgames.  MTV is owned by Viacom.  Viacom is a spinoff of CBS.

Metacritic metascores (professional paid reviewer's scores) for ME3 are high.  Metacritic user review scores are low.


Hint:  Game Informer is owned by Gamestop, and Gamestop sells games.  Game Informer gave ME3 glowing reviews and insulted fans that did not like the ending.  Gamestop needs games to get high ratings, because low rated games don't sell.

I'm not talking conspiracy, but I am talking about business. 

Of course it's ridiculous for you to "require" I make some list showing ALL positive reviews were paid for because some people actually, honestly and at least partly liked the endings.  But, something is way off when the majority of fans (prepared to like ME3 totally) do not like the ending, and the majority of paid reviewers do like the ending and insult people that don't.  Statistically, this makes no sense.  The percentages should be near equal if money plays no part.

Consider also that unpaid reviewers, SF writers, literary critics, literary professors, common fans and authors from across a wide spectrum also dislike the ending.  There is no reason for paid reviewers to consistently give it high marks, statistically speaking.

I've even seen videos of round table debates on the ending, where one person did really hate it, and the 2 other people at the table that supposedly liked it, did not seem to be truthful.  They gave off tells that indicate deception.  The one guy sighed loud and long before saying, hesitantly that he thought the ending was "ok", but then rated it a 10 out of 10.

So advertising means they paid for good reviews huh? That isnt proof thats your opinion.

[moscully]

You said u were listerning but u are not listerning i have read about your so called ending dlc how can u saw that u were listerning when u have not done what the mass effect fans are asking for a new ending. No all u are going to do is anger them more by just tacking on a few extra sences and not the ending they want. So yes  you want to keep the crew their artisic view which would be good if it was a good view but it is not. One how can you call it a good ending whenevery thing the fans have worked for over the 5 years  is gone in the last 10mins. if your are listerning all you have done is ignored what 90% of your fans want a BETTER ENDING not more movie sequences but an ending where we can say i choices mattered we did what we wanted to do i feel that that was a brill ending and not a load of rubbish that you have basicly forced on us on your 3 so called choices and the very same endings. In fact u have now disappointed me even more. I feel like you have said yep heard now here is my reply the finger back at us and we will do whatever we like we don't care about our fans. Well i say why should we care about you why should we buy you games now.

[sdinc009]

meezookeewee wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Voodoo-j wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Its a game people.

2%

Sorry, but that "its only a game" bs is just that, BS.

What the hell is rong with with having passion for a game? I fail to see how having a passion for a game is anything less then having a passion for a band, or a film, or any art from. I can't even see how it's any different from having a passion for a sports team.

What's wrong is that the line between passion and obsession often gets blurred.  I'm passionate about Mass Effect myself, but I don't let the crap ending ruin my day.  Why should it?  And that's seems to be the issue that Thantos144 is bringing up, and he's right.  At the end of the day, it is just a game.  Just like a music band is just a music band and a sports team is just a sports team.  It's simply a matter of perspective.  I wouldn't knock somebody because they're a fan of something.  I will knock them for taking it to ridiculous levels, like saying the crappy ending makes them depressed.  The people who allow the ending to make them depressed clearly don't have their s**t together.  So, yes, there is a line between passion and obsession and I would strongly urge people not to cross it.

The "it's just ______" arguement in itself is a really dick move. Yeah, Mass Effect is a game and Star Wars is a Movie, and Princess of Mars is a book. But, regardless of that a great story gets the audience emotionally invested in the narrative and the characters. Making the claim that "it's just" anything only serves to undermine your emotional attatchment without cause. This is an insulting arguement that can be used to undermine anyone's opinion. "Come have a drink Bob" , Bob says, " I can't, got to watch my kids", "Come on Bob, come out with us, they're just kids". Bob has an emotional attatchment to his children which then gets underminded by the "it's just" arguement. Course, only a total ****hole would deminish a fathers emotional attatchment to his child, but that's the whole purpose of that kind of arguement. "It's just" can be used for anything and only serves to reduce something that someone else values. Yes, Mass Effect is a game, but it is also a story that many people have come to love and we have created emotional connections to the characters in the story. We care what happens and that's the tell tale sign of a great story. Emotional investment is what artists, regardless of venue, strive for.

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

So advertising means they paid for good reviews huh? That isnt proof thats your opinion.

You are quite funny, bubbles.  Brains are used for more than something to prop up your headbone-I use mine to push out my ears.

Of course, there's no way to prove this.  Duh.

However, statistics point to the obvious.  The majority of fans, buyers, players, unpaid reviewers, learned people, and on and on and on, say the ending is tripe.  They give the ending low marks, bad reviews, and so on.  And even amongst those in the general public that say they "like" the ending, there's no great grand love of it.  The vast majority of those that classify themselves as "pro-enders" say things like, "it was ok," "it could be better, but I could live with it," "no, I didn't like it too much either, but no one has the right to demand the devs change it," "it's not great, but it's a game, whaddya expect?"  That's real love as I see it.

Contrast this with what all the paid reviewers (those that get money from ads and from their parent company that has a business relationship with EA or that sells videogames), have to say about the ending and how they rate it.  10 out of 10, even though the ending was, "ok".  How is that a 10 out of 10?  Paid reviewers consistently gave ME3 and the ending high marks, unpaid reviewers and everyone else, didn't.  That speaks for itself and anyone schooled in statistics (my niece is) could tell you there's something wrong here-paid reviewers if they were being honest would not be so far off from what others say.

No, it's not proof, but short of being in "the room" when decisions are made, there is no way to prove any of this. 

Game Informer owned by Gamestop in fact had one reviewer telling people to ignore the people that don't like the ending and to buy the game.  Uh, no one without a vested interest in money from the game would ever suggest something like this.  An honest reviewer would say that he likes the game, but not everyone does and might suggest that someone debating it could read what others have to say about it before making a choice.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 22 juin 2012 - 04:32 .

[darkway1]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

So advertising means they paid for good reviews huh? That isnt proof thats your opinion.

You are quite funny, bubbles.  Brains are used for more than something to prop up your headbone-I use mine to push out my ears.

Of course, there's no way to prove this.  Duh.

However, statistics point to the obvious.  The majority of fans, buyers, players, unpaid reviewers, learned people, and on and on and on, say the ending is tripe.  They give the ending low marks, bad reviews, and so on.  And even amongst those in the general public that say they "like" the ending, there's no great grand love of it.  The vast majority of those that classify themselves as "pro-enders" say things like, "it was ok," "it could be better, but I could live with it," "no, I didn't like it too much either, but no one has the right to demand the devs change it," "it's not great, but it's a game, whaddya expect?"  That's real love as I see it.

Contrast this with what all the paid reviewers (those that get money from ads and from their parent company that has a business relationship with EA or that sells videogames), have to say about the ending and how they rate it.  10 out of 10, even though the ending was, "ok".  How is that a 10 out of 10?  Paid reviewers consistently gave ME3 and the ending high marks, unpaid reviewers and everyone else, didn't.  That speaks for itself and anyone schooled in statistics (my niece is) could tell you there's something wrong here-paid reviewers if they were being honest would not be so far off from what others say.

No, it's not proof, but short of being in "the room" when decisions are made, there is no way to prove any of this. 

Game Informer owned by Gamestop in fact had one reviewer telling people to ignore the people that don't like the ending and to buy the game.  Uh, no one without a vested interest in money from the game would ever suggest something like this.  An honest reviewer would say that he likes the game, but not everyone does and might suggest that someone debating it could read what others have to say about it before making a choice.

Thought you may be interested.......you don't get locked content or half finished games in South Korea,this is why.lol.  
 
http://www.eurogamer...r-37-server-woe

Modifié par darkway1, 22 juin 2012 - 04:44 .