23455 réponses à ce sujet

[SandMan2012]

ssyyllaarr wrote...

Esc.Hatch wrote...

 Just want to add to all the voices that have already said it:

Bioware, we aren't "debating" or "speculating" about the ending the way you want to convince yourselves we are.

The only "debate" is whether or not you meant to include such a jarringly inconsistent ending and if the plot holes are there on purpose or not.

The only "speculation" is about whether this embarrassingly bad ending is all we'll get, or if it will all turn out to have been a trick and you have a real ending waiting in the wings to do justice to the rest of your excellent work on the series.

You'll need to do something different if you want healthy discussion, debate, and speculation about what the endings meant and what might happen afterwards.  The only thing really being debated right now is whether the ending is indoctrination.  If it's not, then you released a cruddy ending and failed your own franchise.  If it is indoctrination, you need to know that that doesn't count as a real ending, because we never find out how Shepard's mission ends.  If it's indoctrination and we dont' get a chance to finish the fight, then you've failed at making an ending.

^this. 

Yes yes! 

[Montana]

Absolute favourite moment:
Near the end, When Wrex yells to the Krogan troops:
"Suck it up princesses!"
Made me laugh so hard!

Other favourite moments:
All the references to previous games bugs, ppls complaints etc.
The crew talking on the Normandy.
The whole "The world is ending" feeling that is present through the whole game.
The London part, that was just awesome.

Most of the game was really epic, one of the best games I've ever played.
Until the end.
I'm not saying that I think the endings are bad, they are just so damn confusing, on so many levels.

The explanation of why the reapers are harvesting oragnics is circular logic and overly complicated:
Why would the Catalyst leave the Realys, making it possible for races to meet and compare notes on AI research.
It also contradicts what Sovereign says in ME1 (that conversation is one of the highlights of the whole series):
"My kind trancends your very understanding", only to have it expalined in one sentence by the Catalyst (The created always turns on the creators).
It doesn't make much sense, but I can understand the concept (They basically stop us from running with sciccors by harvesting us and storing us on a "harddrive").
Was Soveregin lying? (why would he?) Didn't he know why they are harvesting organics? (Just a sad lackey of the Catalyst, exisitng whitout a cue as to why, "I harvest therefore I am"?)

And the endings are not at all in the style of previous games, all of a sudden you're thrown into a choise you're not given a chance to explore or even remotely imagine the ramafications of, Shep just takes the choises as the truth and proceeds to change the universe radically.

I didn't expect Shep to live, but these endings makes no sense to me really.
Sure Shep ends the cycle and saves the universe, but at the cost of the galactic community and the very soul of the ME universe.

How the heck are you going to expand the ME universe when you blow up the thing that makes the whole universe possible!?

I just wrap my head around the endings.
If that was your goal, congrats, you've succeeded.

[DrNegative]

Chris Priestly wrote...
. What was your favorite moment?

The moment of first seeing Tali's picture, wow.

[Beldamon]

betd2 wrote...

Better endings than ME3

Just as Shepard is about to make a choice...
- The TARDIS materializes in front of Shepard. The Doctor walks out and makes all the reapers run away by pointing his screwdriver at them.

- The Turian Consular crawls up the elevator shaft, stands up and yells
"REAPERS! WE! HAVE! DISMISSED! THAT! CLAIM!"
and the reapers all explode.

- Dr. Octagonapus jumps out of Shepard's gun, yells, "DOCTOR OCTAGONAPUS! BLLLLARRRGHHH!!" and blasts all the reapers away.

- The Crucible is actually a giant transmitter that when activated disrupts the Reapers thought processes and leaves them completely vulnerable to attack. Fleet quickly finishes off Reapers

Only one of these is not a joke

I *know*!  The Doctor one, right? 

[Nu-Nu]

99% of it was good, just not the ending (won't rant about that), but what I especially love -

- Joker and Edi romance blossoming, and being able to play cupid.

- Kaidan's story in mass effect 3 was brilliantly, interwoven into the story at the intro. You gave him back only to take him away again. That whole chapter before the hospital and his release was bittersweet. Kaidan inviting Shepard to dinner, and standing up to Shepard by telling her to "take five" when she clearly wasn't planning to. Kaidan romance in general. (Still have to complete Garrus romance).

- Garrus and Shepard shooting cans scene, I laughed at that moment.

- Vega boxing round with Shepard.

- Just nice to see Shepard doing something with others charaters other other then talking.

That's all for tonight, could write more, but need to sleep.

[Mil_LorD]

Hey guys,

first off, thanks for opening this thread and listening to us.

I'll start with my favourite moment:

1) non-LI: The scene with Garrus on the citadel where Shepard and him had their little contest.
You could actually feel how strong their friendship is after everything they have been through.

2) LI: Pretty much everything about Liara 
Especially her last gift and the scene where she and Shepard were staring into the stars and she talked about how easy it would be to go to a lonely planet and live a life in peace.
Little more and I would have started crying x)

But actually I loved your entire game (until a certain point) and just got completly sucked into it.


Soo.. but sadly the reason for this thread is mainly another one... the ending(s).

I really really loved your game until Harbinger's beam hit. After that.. well.. I can't believe this is your "epic conclusion" to this awesome series.
I'm not saying I desperatly want a Disney-style Happy-Ending (although I wouldn't mind to have an option to get to see the blue little children )... but what you did made me just hate the game.
After I finished I went on Teamspeak later to talk with a couple of friends and I just ranted for hours how you ruined a masterpiece.

None of my choices mattered anymore.
In every ending galactic civilisation is doomed since the mass relays are destroyed.
And the worst part is - none of it makes any sense whatsoever! NONE!
*I listed a couple of reasons but then I realized it's probably not the place to discuss those *

The only reason I'm here is the Indoctrination theory and my hope that you simply fooled us and wanted us to "feel" it firsthand.

In that case I'll be amazed by your courage to do that.

But it'd be time to announce something like that in the near future, or deny it if it isn't true, you're getting the hopes of a lot of people up and the longer you let them believe the more they (and me) will be disappointed.

In that case... well.. I'm sorry, then you killed off one of the most inspiring series of all time within 10 minutes.. I guess that's some kind of achievement as well...

(But seriously: give us a damn DLC - I want a real ending within the game. And I don't want to read something like "we told you the story to this point - now make up your own ending". That would just be cheap.)

Alright, thanks for reading and I hope I'll have the urge to post here again.
Next time hopefully in the "omg bioware you sneaky ******* your twisted ending move was amazing" thread 

[ShaneP]

One thing I'm still struggling with...

I understand the argument that the reapers built the mass relays to ensure galactic civilisation would form along predictable paths, but at the same time if the mass relays were not there in the first place, wouldn't that have made it nigh on impossible for the supposedly dangerous AI experiments to get outside of the system they were created in in the first place?

[Beldamon]

ssyyllaarr wrote...

Esc.Hatch wrote...

 Just want to add to all the voices that have already said it:

Bioware, we aren't "debating" or "speculating" about the ending the way you want to convince yourselves we are.

The only "debate" is whether or not you meant to include such a jarringly inconsistent ending and if the plot holes are there on purpose or not.

The only "speculation" is about whether this embarrassingly bad ending is all we'll get, or if it will all turn out to have been a trick and you have a real ending waiting in the wings to do justice to the rest of your excellent work on the series.

You'll need to do something different if you want healthy discussion, debate, and speculation about what the endings meant and what might happen afterwards.  The only thing really being debated right now is whether the ending is indoctrination.  If it's not, then you released a cruddy ending and failed your own franchise.  If it is indoctrination, you need to know that that doesn't count as a real ending, because we never find out how Shepard's mission ends.  If it's indoctrination and we dont' get a chance to finish the fight, then you've failed at making an ending.

^this. 

Hate to be part of a crowd, but wanna add my vote.

[RedTracer7]

ssyyllaarr wrote...

Esc.Hatch wrote...

 Just want to add to all the voices that have already said it:

Bioware, we aren't "debating" or "speculating" about the ending the way you want to convince yourselves we are.

The only "debate" is whether or not you meant to include such a jarringly inconsistent ending and if the plot holes are there on purpose or not.

The only "speculation" is about whether this embarrassingly bad ending is all we'll get, or if it will all turn out to have been a trick and you have a real ending waiting in the wings to do justice to the rest of your excellent work on the series.

You'll need to do something different if you want healthy discussion, debate, and speculation about what the endings meant and what might happen afterwards.  The only thing really being debated right now is whether the ending is indoctrination.  If it's not, then you released a cruddy ending and failed your own franchise.  If it is indoctrination, you need to know that that doesn't count as a real ending, because we never find out how Shepard's mission ends.  If it's indoctrination and we dont' get a chance to finish the fight, then you've failed at making an ending.

^this. 

QFT

[Captiosus77]

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

I'm sorry, but Mass Effect 3 is only good because of the emotional attachment you have to the characters.

Yes, but that is what made it revolutionary. Prior to the Mass Effect franchise, there weren't any games out there that made you feel as though you were the character AND the choices you made would continue to follow you throughout the entire series.

To elaborate: Halo and Gears of War have rich universes as well, but I never really felt "attached" to the journey of Master Chief or Marcus Fenix because I knew that, while playing, the games were largely just linear chapters that I had no real influence in. I was merely seeing the a predetermined plot unfold through the eyes of someone else. With "Commander Shepard", it wasn't just the eyes of someone else, it was choices being made that I would make if I, personally, were in the situation, and seeing how each of those choices led to future options, not only in the same game but two games later.

I will admit that the carry over choices had issues but, again, I can think of no other game franchise in the last 30 years that offered anything remotely similar. KOTOR came close, but that was just a stand alone game.

I will, also, concede that the rest of your points (quoted below) hold merit. There were many places in the series where the writing wasn't great, the gameplay and pacing was lackluster, and technical issues reared their ugly heads. Yet I'd still classify the game as revolutionary for being able to invoke such a strong emotional connection with players, something that is hard to do even for great authors and movie makers.

The central story isn't great, the writing isn't great, hell, the Rachni queen is turned ffrom a powerful ally into the Reapers little b***h, the cover/run/roll mechanics aren't great (especially when there's a ton of cover in the room/area), there's bugs all around, and the dialogue has been stripped down to the bare minimum, with auto-dialogue going most of the time. Hell, that's not even mentioing the retardation of the Thermal Clips, the general "rushed" feeling of the game, or the stupid contrived kid and shepards feeling about him. 

If ME3 had the ending we (subjectively) wanted, I'd only give it a 8/10. The only reason it is any better is because of the established emotional connection you have to the characters. ****** felt like they focused solely on the combat with little regard to anything else, much less game flow and pacing.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

betd2 wrote...

Better endings than ME3

Just as Shepard is about to make a choice...
- The TARDIS materializes in front of Shepard. The Doctor walks out and makes all the reapers run away by pointing his screwdriver at them.

Hey at least that ending would make sense.  the TARDIS can go to any time in any universe so there is no logical reason why a Doctor Who Mass Effect crossover could not happen and the Reapers are the type of thing The Doctor would try and stop.

[jwillis7]

if the indoc theory was correct, how the ending should have happened is in all of the options except where you see the breath, you get a Harbinger close up saying "assuming direct control" after the credits.

the breath one would stay as is.

take out the crazy grandpa and kid

the DLC screen should have read something like this "Did you understand....you must finish the fight.... .....(something cryptic but implying that this was not the end and more was coming)

[ShdwFox7]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

    For the most part I'm going to ignore those last three sections of your post. Originally I was going to say something sarcastic involving the terms "political ****storm" and "deflection", but decided against it. I wish present myself in a civilized and polite manner despite my inner turmoil.

    Now with that said I really appreciate just hearing the fact you guys are listening. I consider this as the first honest official response to come from Bioware specifically about the game's ending. This is because I believe Casey Hudson's interview with Digital Trends was too early for him to truly gauge player reactions to the game's ending.

    The next thing I wanted to bring up is how you want more people to complete ME3 before you decide on anything. That's completely understandable, and I obviously respect that decision. In time I'm sure you'll find many people agree that ninety-nine percent of the game is excellent. It's just that horrible botched one percent ending nobody can understand that's the issue.

    To conclude all this, most people around here are really just seeking some form of acknowledgement. We just wanted to know that everything we've been saying, including our petition (i.e. retakemasseffect.chipin.com/retake-mass-effect-childs-play), aren't just falling on deaf ears. Even your awareness gives us some solace. In time though I do expect more from Bioware, maybe even an apology for being blatantly lied to about ME3's ending pre-launch. But for now all that can wait, I understand your need to delay any further questions/answers.

    Think I'll go back to playing ME3's multiplayer now.

[Cirreus]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening.

What was your favorite moment?

Ah ... you had me until "listening". Shouldn't you guys be reading these forums ?

My favorite moment was when you guys tried to conclude this epic trilogy & at the end ... I know more about this guy ; His name was Marauder Shields




than I do this kid



I have more back story on a NPC enemy trash mob from fans (that make sense) than I do on your "star" attraction. It's amazing I take relief in knowing that Marauder Sheilds gave more heart to this trilogy than Bioware's writers did.

Modifié par Cirreus, 16 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[Brass_Buckles]

Chris, Casey, and any other Bioware devs:

What you have to understand is that most of us loved most of the game.  In fact, I was grinning like an idiot while I played, apart from during those sad moments.  I think my favorite scene was the farewell from my Shepard's LI, Garrus.  It was poignant and well-written and at that point I was expecting Shepard to be dead in the end.

The part where you guys failed the fanbase is when you threw SpaceWizardGodChild at us out of left field.  We didn't see that coming.  Even if it's meant to be some sort of indoctrination dream, dying hallucination, etc., we should have gotten the clarification that was promised.  We were promised resolution.  We were promised a grand, sweeping ending with many of our decisions being taken into account in the ending.  I know that it would have been difficult to fit in every single choice, but at the very least we would have liked to see what was going to happen as a result of the choices we made during the course of ME3.

Yes, some people wanted a happy ending.  I myself would have liked that as an option, although I was entirely expecting my Shepard to die.  In my case, I would have been as pleased with a funeral scene as I would with Shepard reuniting with her LI in the end.  I would have been pleased with text telling me some of the consequences of my actions.  Did the relays destroy everyone's homeworld, or did they end up okay?  What about the fleet around Earth?  Did they manage to find a way to keep everyone fed?  Why did the Normandy flee and how did my squadmates get aboard when they were on the ground with me?   And if Shepard were indoctrinated, what's going on with the battle to take back Earth?  These are things I should have been told, but I wasn't.

The problem with the ending is not what happened in it, it's more what didn't happen in it.  We didn't get closure.  We didn't get explanations.  We didn't even get to see anyone mourn for our Shepards.  It wasn't the type of ending that makes you feel sad but rewarded, it's the type of ending that ripped apart the Mass Effect universe for all time, leaving us no chance to revisit it in the future and no knowledge of what actually came to pass.  And if you favor the indoctrination theory as I do, it just leaves us hanging in the middle of the battlefield, uncertain what's to come and without a Mass Effect 4 to look forward to to resolve it, assuming the fanbase hasn't got too bitter a taste in their mouths now to even consider purchasing an ME4.

One of the worst things about the ending is that we didn't even get to take Earth back unless the player truly believes, to the full extent, what happens in the three nigh-identical cutscenes.  And if you, like me, fail to believe it--because there is considerable evidence indicating this is a hallucination or dream of some type--you don't get any resolution whatsoever.  Not that you do anyway because what happens with the krogan?  With the quarians and geth?  The rachni?

Please tell me why nothing I did matters in the end.  Please tell me why I threw away hundreds of hours of my life to reach a conclusion that tells me that nothing I've ever done matters.  We were told that choices would matter.  The choices were a lie.

[DS Monkfish]

Favourite part so far? ME1, ME2 and ME3 (especially the epic fight through London), right up until entering the citadel.

I've had a couple of days to think (obsessively) about the endings, and I'm gutted. Dark endings are fine - stupid, badly written, hamfisted, confusing endings are not. Synthetics and organics always fight so we'll send synthetics to kill advanced organics so they don't make synthetics? In my playthrough Shep managed to reunite the Quarians and the Geth, but apparently he can't mention that to Starbaby.

And isn't blowing up a mass relay supposed to wipe out all life in that relay's solar system? So untold billions die whatever you choose? 3 pretty much identical endings? Controlling the reapers is the paragon choice despite Shep insisting that TIM was insane and evil for wanting to do so? My supposedly dead teammates from theLondon battle are magically aboard the Normandy for Joker's unexplained flight from the fight? Having to make up some sort of half-baked theory just to make the illogical, lame endings make any kind of sense?

I've loved this series from the start, played the first two many, many times... Can't face playing any of them now, which is a shame, because up until the end I thought ME3 was darn near a masterpiece. So, so sad. Goodbye Mass Effect.

Modifié par dmath2, 16 mars 2012 - 01:13 .

[Sinekein]

I forgot to say what I prefered.

If it comes to epicness and action, the whole Tuchanka story in 3 is so great.
If we speak of graphics, Palaven's moon : awesome.
And for emotions, the end of Rannoch. Also, Jack willing to sacrifice herself for her students, considering who she was.

[cinderburster]

Just going to leave this here:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779/1

OP has explained exactly what's wrong with the storytelling of the endings far better than I ever could.

[StowyMcStowstow]

It's funny: ME1, one of the best endings I've ever experienced. ME3, one of the most god-awful endings I've ever experienced. Then again, things in ME1 made sense and plot crippling Thermal Clips hadn't been involved.

[brain_damage]

You should probably listen to what this guy has to say.

[cApAc aMaRu]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

You stole my Shepards FACE so he hasn't had ANY adventures. My opinion of the endinghs is that they are bad because no Drew and no face = crappy game.

[beanss]

 When Tali says "I love you" and Shep says "Keelah se'lai" before you kill the reaper. That was tear worthy. There are so many though, how can we list them all?

[Chicken_Vulture]

It occurs to me. I haven't been reading this entire thread word for word, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before. But the entire series up until now has been about holding onto faith, never giving up, even when it looks like it is really, truly over, that everything is lost, and it was all for nothing. But that's not the only reason to believe that this bad ending was intentional and that something better is coming.

The writing and situations in the third game before the actual ending makes it very clear that Bioware has been listening closely to their fans. They've been measuring responses to certain things, watching us, collecting gameplay info. A ton of things happened in the third game that were only hinted at in the first two, and it was utterly amazing to see all these little hunches and ideas I had come to life before my eyes. Obviously I wasn't the only person to think of them, but the whole storyline made it clear they had a very good idea of what we wanted.

Then, they throw it all out and change it. What? There is no way that could have been an accident. No way a game written that well and knowing its audience that well would opt for a confusing, jarring ending like that. The buildup promises the most amazing payoff possible, that we've been waiting for for years, but then... nothing. It would have been more satisfying if Shepard just never got up from charging the beam. Frustrating yes, but at least the door would be open for fans to plug in their own idea of the ending. Even having the reapers stay incomprehensible and actually wipe everyone out would have been better. Not that I want that.

I don't know the exact details, but I do recall that the recent novel (Deception) also caused a big outcry for its failure to adhere to the universe and the muddling of a lot of details. And Bioware plans to... patch it? Re-release, from what I hear, which would mean buying it again if I'm right. Maybe they let you trade it in online or something, but I doubt that would be possible.

That, though, is a physical object. Downloadable content doesn't have to be printed, just distributed. So I fully expect that right this minute, all of our outraged posts are being watched, the incoherent rage being ignored in the name of the people giving real suggestions on what they think would have been the best ending. They had so many ideas that they wanted to just let us decide for ourselves what the real ending is - and then they're going to make that. They had to release the game both so we could see all the lead up to the ending, as well as to finance the upcoming 'true' ending.

But. And here's where it gets extremely dangerous. I was one of the few who was little more than mildly annoyed about the From Ashes DLC in general. It sounds very interesting, but like Kasumi's DLC in ME2, it is definitely not essential to the overall story, from what I hear. A very fun addition, but unnecessary, and playing ME3 without having purchased it, I didn't feel like there was obviously anything missing. Even so, the fanbase is still very upset about that release.

So, if the true ending turns out to be another ten dollar purchase, no matter how much effort went into it, it would be absolute suicide on behalf of Bioware. Yes, people will still buy it, but the outcry will be so loud that it will tarnish the experience for everyone. Many fans will feel absolutely awful caving in and making the purchase when they oppose it so strongly, but this is OUR ending, and there's almost nothing we wouldn't do to see it. . Yes, they would make a lot of money off of us, but it would be so much less memorable for us when we finally do get to see that ending after compromising what seems right (another underlying theme of the game, uh oh).


On the other hand, and this is where I start sounding like a crazy conspiracy theorist, if this all turns out to have been their plan, to outrage us with an incomplete ending, so that they can use the funds they made from the main game to finance a real ending (as open-ended as possible, preferably), that they release for free, then that would probably be the most faith-restoring gesture a company could ever make. It would make news headlines, it would sell millions more copies, it would be historic. I'd buy like a dozen Spectre packs in the multiplayer store just to show my support.

So in short, you're not going to accomplish anything by asking for your money back. You got 95% of an excellent story that just wasn't quite finished, but you still got a very good game. What we SHOULD be doing is just letting Bioware know what we really would have liked to see in the ending. What it all seemed to be leading up to for us, personally. Maybe they'll listen, because they've already proven that they listen to us. Maybe it will all be for nothing, and we're stuck with what we have. But there's absolutely nothing to gain from getting publicly upset. And there's everything to gain from sharing the ideas that they've given us, letting them know that yes, we really would like to see that thing they were implying was going to happen, whatever it was.

Personally I was looking forward to everyone putting aside their differences to help out a devastated humanity after the war leaves them with very few survivors, inspired by Shepard's ultimate sacrifice. Some of the main characters have already died very heroically, so I don't want to see any of them killed off suddenly and pointlessly, but if it really is necessary, some squadmates and old friends meeting the noble ends they deserve in the name of the greater good really would seal the deal to make it amazing and heartbreaking.

In short: Unite, grow a quad, hold the line, and take it back. (+15 Paragon)

[jeweledleah]

CJMissen wrote...

The arrival of the sword fleet and its broadsiding the reapers, all the rage, hatred and indignation at what they have done, feeling like Picard, drawing the line,



but the ending utterly jarred the immersion of that, the catharsis of holding the line and striking back at them in desperate spades, not just due to the sheer restrictive direction of it, but the complete and utter disconnect it had from the rest of the series, both in meaning (or lack thereof) and in sheer quality.

but yes, the sword fleets hitting the charon relay and their offensive assault, seeing that... there are so many other moments to get ones heart hammering against the ribs, this was the most standout to me.

this.  THIS is what it should have been, this clip right there.  that same feeling.  and the ending, should have had that same feeling.  the borg seem just as unstopable as the reapers.  how do you stop something that infinitely adaptable, something that assimilates you and only grows stronger.  Picard did.

and so should have Shepard.  no more compromises, no more retreats.  we fight or we die.  and we'll make them pay for what they have done.

where is that feeling?  ME3 ending, sadly doesn't give you that feeling. but it should have.