2730 réponses à ce sujet

[E-Type XR]

SeraphX10 wrote...

The Kübler-Ross model and Mass Effect. The internet watched Bioware kill Mass Effect and is in grieving. It all makes sense now.

1. Denial: Theories about the ending being something more than it was.
2. Anger: Bioware hate spans across the galaxy, but mostly internet forums.
3. Bargaining: Offering money and charity in hopes that Bioware will resurrect your fallen love and change her fate.
4. Depression: Realizing that Bioware is a business and can't be bartered with on an individual level. Powerlessness.
5. Acceptance: Drowning yourself in the multiplayer and a strong scotch. Starting the next playthrough knowing what happens at the end.

Sadface.

Mass Effect 3 has created a new 5th stage, Depression pt2.

Acceptance has gone out the window and is currently making its way past the Shrike Abbysal.

[NReed106]

I don't blame them for the Illusive Man not being there, I mean how many complained about the Human Reaper baby fight? That said, to many plot holes, no closure, galactic holocaust etc.

[Action Bawstard]

Well, it was hard but I cancelled my Mass Effect 3 Razor items I pre-ordered a while ago. I was looking so forward to that sweet mouse, mouse pad and iPhone case. But the way I feel we are going to show how serious we are about this is to hit them in the best way we support them; sales.

Hold the line.

[Vovea]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Plot holes often require tons of speculation. They might as well have shown Joker running with EDI out of Apollo Cafe while the crucible fires. Then show the Citadel blow up. Then show Joker and EDI playing golf in a jungle.

I would speculate the hell out of that.

I'm crying right now.

[Koobarex]

Terminus Echoes wrote...

vigna wrote...

atghunter wrote...

Tallrickruush:

At least at this point, I'm pretty sure we're past the first standard corporate counter-moves. Fewer and fewer "attack" articles are appearing against the unhappy fan base and more are at least acknowledging there may be some validity to the complaints (a standard paradigm shift to the center by the media to try and come out on the winning side)

EA knows they have a problem and it's not going away. Now it just comes down to the economic fallout and cost assessment. I'll admit, this is an incredible thing to watch as someone who studied corporate response tactics years ago. The social media power aspect of a situation like this is perhaps unwieldy, fickle, and as unpredictable as a Reaper on Red Bull! But impressive nonetheless!

What I find most fascinating is that groups like Take Back Mass Effect are so quickly organized (before the internet these campaigned had to be created by letter-writing, phones and slow media attention sometimes taking months) that tried-and-true corporate counter-measures are simply outmaneuvered. As an old gamer, I'm in awe of the rapid deployment of market forces the internet in conjunction with 24 hour news cycle allows.

A good recent case study on this and how the tactics play out is Mr. Limbaugh's recent gaffe here in the U.S. After loosing roughly 100 sponsors, he's now on “vacation”.

And you can bet they shut down the boards temporarily because someone just turned this chess game onto the floor. Release a statement deflecting the source and not the content and go back into damage control mode.

Hold The Line

You should have your own thread

Ditto.

A lot of truth here. Hold the line. We are the consumers, we are the ones buying products from BW and EA, we are the core that provides the necessary word of mouth and social backing that each and every mainstream game requires to roll. If we all demand a new ending, it's just bad business to wave us away.

[Apfelweinbrauer]

ConradsLaces wrote...

edit - screw it... I'm not fighting with the BB Codes and images today...

Oh, Marauder Shields signatures? Where can I get one to honor my hero?

[ZeroCrewX]

Getorex wrote...

Spitfiremk87 wrote...

maki0129 wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

Do you know why people who like the endings are calling you whiners, besides the fact that we have trolls on our side as much as you have trolls on yours?

Because seriously people, you're over reacting. You are whining. You are raging. You are expressing so much bile and hatred and horrible wishes towards people you've never met. You're claiming entitlement to a change in a game that you didn't spend hours building and writing for and creating.

You didn't do that stuff, Bioware did. And out of what Bioware made... 5 minutes. 5 MINUTES of it is not up to people on this forums' taste, so they decide to crucify Bioware, insult them, rage against them, and then wonder why people like me call them whiners.

I understand your side. It's not /the best/ ending. But look at our side. Endings are hard to do. Endings are a challenge, and ultimately, it's a rare series that lands its ending on the landing pad with all parts intact. And more then that....

... five minutes of discontent does not mean Bioware went out of their way to hurt, harm, betray, punch, slap, kick, stab, burn, beat, or bash you.

The people who claim Bioware ruined the series intentionally are as foolish as people who claim Americans committed 9/11 on ourselves.

Here's a real fact for you.

Yes, there's a great story, and great characters.
At the end of the day?

It. Is. Just. A. Game.

If the only thing you have in life is the BSN network, go get some help. If you really have things better to do then please. Go to college. Go to work. Embrace your woman or your man, hug your kids. Do whatever people do. Do something for the world, instead of hurling insults towards a company you know none of personally.

To be fair, while it is true that there is a lot of idiotic entitlement going on, not everyone who dislikes the endings is on the same boat.

I hated the endings as much as the next guy, but I find the calls for Walter's head, and the scathological remarks about what they'd do with it to be infantile and in poor taste. Even calling to have him firing for making such a bad a call is a bit too much. I also was disgusted, as someone whose close family has been the victim of rape, with the guy who compared himself to a rape victim, and the flight/pilot metaphor was completely farfetched.

Two things, though.

1- I still feel like I'm entitled to express my feelings about these endings, they were terrible. They were lacking in narrative quality and production values, broke completely from the narrative of the game, made no sense whatsoever, and didn't depend one bit on the choices you made past the 4000 ESM mark. They're a terrible way to wrap up a great series.

2- I don't think requesting DLC that changes the ending and hoping it'll be free is wrong, specially when to drive home the sincerity of that request, you donate thousands of dollars to a children's charity.

Demanding it though, yeah. I agree, that's childish, but not everyone is demanding it.

People do need to take it down a notch here, but just because some people are whining, it doesn't mean that all of us who disliked the endings and are requesting new content that fixes it are whiners.

Agreed. I hate the endings just as much as the next guy, but we need to go about this the right way, respectfully.

Respectfully? Really? You mean "respectfully" like they treated fans?  "Respectfully" like they treated the story itself with a bullcrap, quick, no thought, no logic ending?  You EARN respect, you don't DESERVE respect.  They did everything they could here to LOSE respect that they had actually previously earned.  Respect isn't a permanent condition you know.  

I completely agree with Getorex, people seem to forget that respect is not a given right to be demanded or given out of nothing. there's "hey a new guy I barely know respect" and there's "oh that guy who lied to me and cheated me for so long" respect.

Pick your poison, but spare us the bs please?

I agree that things must be kept civi, however being civil doesnt mean kiss their asses, it doesnt mean that civil = respectful.

[Terminus Echoes]

Quietness wrote...

2 things that kinda confuse me about some people.....


1. Why this insistence in separating Bioware and EA... Guess what people THEY ARE THE SAME!
"After selling BioWare to Electronic Arts in 2008, Muzyka became a General Manager and Vice President at EA"

NEWSFLASH: EA IS NOT THEIR EVIL OVERLOAD, BIOWARE AND EA ARE ONE AND THE SAME

2. Why are people attempting to use the "Its Artists Choice" option. You purchase a game based on what they say WILL happen. We were told our choices would matter, that things will be unique, among others. This is no different than purchasing someone's piece of art being told it was one thing than get something that is completely different.

Guess what? PAYPAL AND BANKS HAVE A CHARGEBACK OPTION SPECIFICALLY MADE FOR THESE PURPOSES. Its called "Not As Described" which is beyond applicable here.

Really? Does Amazon.com have that option? I want to know, maybe I can get my money back.

[vigna]

Ares14916 wrote...

HAHA two back to back quotes of the same post...you do need your own thread atghunter!

Well, it is important, because it shows that Corps know exactly what to look for and how to work around. At some point they want people to rage and make us all look like idiots. Of course some corporations actually go so far as to have plants at peaceful protests and rallies to try and make the protesters all look bad. First rule is don't start infighting, and don't start blaming each other.

information is a powerful tool.

[TheMadBlimper]

Bioware just discovered how thin the line between love and hate really is.

It's a shame that it's come to this, really.

[msitton]

I am really surprised by this information. It's hard to imagine that such an amazing franchise would be turned on its head at the last moment in order to create speculation/controversy.

Mass Effect has always had those aspects but through its storytelling. Whether it be "what makes a person human," "the value of life," or "racism(xenophobia in ME's case)." Why would the structure of their storytelling be thrown out at the last moment in order to get "lots of speculation from everyone."

In the end I am just utterly baffled...

[RowanCF]

Visserian99 wrote...

I hate to say it, but isn't this pretty much the nail in the coffin for Indoctrination Theory?

How? 

They even wanted to do this:

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control.

This just seems like a simpler way of doing it without the gameplay mechanics problem.

Modifié par RowanCF, 15 mars 2012 - 10:40 .

[Hunter_Wolf]

Where the hell was Harbinger anyways? Heard there was a discount at sit'n'sleep? 20-30seconds of camera time and that was deemed a necessary conclusion to what was to be the final face of the Reapers in all their evilness.

Not going to lie, I rather enjoyed Sovereign's diabolical vagueness. Sad to find myself right where three months ago I was skeptical on how they could pull of the story of the Reapers.

[atghunter]

Thank you vigna. I'm honored.

And somewhat amazed at all of this. This is the power consumers 20 years ago wished they had. However this turns out, you can bet there will be a college offering:

1) Computer Game Design 101: The Mass Effect Theory (or how to cripple your brand name in 15 minutes)

2) Computer Game Design 102: Pretty Colors Do Not Make A Pretty Ending

and

3) Computer Game Design 103: Painting a Multi-Colored Cartoon Elephant in the Middle of Your Rembrandt Can Upset Your Customers.

Hold The Line

[Ezekiel_Frost]

Wait!

I'm not willing to give up hope yet!

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

Doesn't that hint to the fact that he is actually under partial reaper control in the final scenes?

[wryterra]

SeraphX10 wrote...

The Kübler-Ross model and Mass Effect. The internet watched Bioware kill Mass Effect and is in grieving. It all makes sense now.

1. Denial: Theories about the ending being something more than it was.
2. Anger: Bioware hate spans across the galaxy, but mostly internet forums.
3. Bargaining: Offering money and charity in hopes that Bioware will resurrect your fallen love and change her fate.
4. Depression: Realizing that Bioware is a business and can't be bartered with on an individual level. Powerlessness.
5. Acceptance: Drowning yourself in the multiplayer and a strong scotch. Starting the next playthrough knowing what happens at the end. Walking away from Mass Effect franchise and BioWare, never to return.

Sadface.

Edited for accuracy. After all, the reason we buy BioWare games is the narrative and BioWare have just demonstrated that when they're up against it and the pressure's on to turn in a compelling conclusion to a narrative, they can't handle it. 

[wickermoon]

Something I've noticed - I hope I'm not voicing something, other people have already said - about the notes is, that they sound very vague on specific items. Also, I think that there's some misinterpretation of various quotes going on.

1. You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe.
People seem to think that this quote was meant as "Nah, we don't give them closure." but it also suggests that - as almost every good designed universe - they wanted to preserve a certain level of mystery in their universe. Actually, I don't need to know for HOW long the Reapers have reaped and it never really mattered to me (my opinion). People might see that differently, but for me that information was nothing I would die for to know. Would you? I definitely want closure, but not full closure so that the whole universe gets de-mystified.

2. I will not say that my speculation is correct, but the sentence "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" can be interpreted two ways. First, of course, Walters could've meant the fans, so that the ending would be very speculative. Second, though, it could be interpreted as a note for colleagues. The latter option seems weak, but I'm only considering it because of my conclusion.

3. People say the Indoctrination theory has been dismissed by this, but actually, the last quote of the opening post hints otherwise. They wanted to integrate a Shepard under full reaper control sequence, but "gameplay mechanics proved too troublesome". In conclusion, the ending that we've got could then possibly be a substitute for this sequence - thus giving the indoctrination theory even more credibility.

4. The star child - according to indoc. theory - would still be a valid part of a good ending (read: not the ending we've got) but it would not be the end of the game. I agree, the wording of the quote suggests that Walters thought the "Star Child->The End" a good idea - which would be quite naive - but it never says that the star child was the ultimate ending and that there wouldn't be anything else. There are no quotes regarding how they thought about other endings. There are only bits and pieces which could be interpreted either very negative (and with the state of the end and the player base that would naturally be the case) or very non-descriptive.

So, my conclusion, I was working towards: If BioWare stated that they like their ending because they wanted to get this much media attention, why not cut a deal with Geoff to publish certain parts of the developing process, or even worse, feeding him wrong information "just in case". I know, this sounds a lot like a conspiracy theory and I'm not saying that it probably is as I stated - nor is this meant as some kind of salvation for BW ****ing up ME3's end. But BW has been pointing in several directions, there has been rumour and some things in this story (and I mean the story about the bad ending and BW liking it the way it is) just don't make enough sense. It feels like a very devious PR stunt - for which I would still be extremely mad at BioWare (still not as enraged as I would be about the fact that the current ending is the real one).

Maybe that's just my last grain of hope speaking here, making me see ghosts were there are none, but I think I'll "hold the line" for a little while longer, not buying DLCs, but watching BW warily how they handle this crisis.

[Deschi]

the idea lossign control of shepard is brilliant. they needed more time how to figure it out and a clever mechanism that the player should ahve reacted to that - regarding to his way he or she formaly choose dialogue options - to break the indoctriantion or go with it and then maybe land in the hnads of fate aka ghost child... but if clverly played in the dialogue options or maybe some other sequences the game could go on... that would be soooo awesome

[magikbbg]

Abisco! Damn mad props to you, you single handedly shut down BSN for this forum, lol. amazing!

[TyDurden13]

VvAndromedavV wrote...
I never, ever thought in a million years that the ending could be so "bad" that I'd never want to play the ME games again, but that's kind of how I feel right now---and the ME games are pretty much my favorite games of all time.

I mean I didn't need an ending filled with rainbows and sunshine but I wanted something that didn't come down to deus ex-machina and space magic.

And gaping plot-holes.

Same.  The ME games WERE my favorite games of all time.  And I know endings are hard to do, especially with epic sagas.  I knew full well going into ME3 that I might not be blown away by the ending...and I didn't care really, because really it's the journey that's the important thing - I really believe that.  I even figured they were probably fudging a bit with the "16 different endings" claim, but I didn't care really...I thought they would be OK.

The one thing I never counted on was an ending so horrid that it retroactively ruined everything leading up to it - the entire series (and the truly bewildering thing is ME3 was AMAZING until the last 10 minutes....they were completely nailing it).  And yet, that's basically where I'm at.

I'm holding out some hope, mostly due to the "hold on to your saves, we have great things planned," type tweets (and I think indoctrination theory still fits), but yeah...pretty bummed at the moment.



Edited for typos

Modifié par TyDurden13, 15 mars 2012 - 10:40 .

[RocketManSR2]

There's something that upsets me more than the ending of a video game. Do you know what it is? It's watching a community tear itself apart. The BSN is a somewhat passionate (see: hostile) place during the best of times and this has pushed many to the point of truly leaving and never coming back. There are verbal insults being hurled at BioWare and other forum members. On the internet, it's easy to do that because we can't see the hurt on their faces. Everybody who works at BioWare are listening to us, this includes the insults and hateful comments that are flying fast and furious.

The dev team labored long hours for 2 years to create Mass Effect 3 and were very happy when it was done and they could get it into our hot little hands. Do you really think they were hoping so many would hate their work? They won't "fix" the ending because it isn't broken, it's what was agreed on, like it or not. What they might do, is create an alternate ending or tie up the loose ends better for those who wish to download it. If this level of juvenile behavior continues, though, they might just decide we aren't worth the effort. If someone was hateful to me then asked me to do something nice for them, I'd tell them to f*** off. Pleeease keep it civil.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 15 mars 2012 - 10:44 .

[SeraphX10]

E-Type XR wrote...

SeraphX10 wrote...

The Kübler-Ross model and Mass Effect. The internet watched Bioware kill Mass Effect and is in grieving. It all makes sense now.

1. Denial: Theories about the ending being something more than it was.
2. Anger: Bioware hate spans across the galaxy, but mostly internet forums.
3. Bargaining: Offering money and charity in hopes that Bioware will resurrect your fallen love and change her fate.
4. Depression: Realizing that Bioware is a business and can't be bartered with on an individual level. Powerlessness.
5. Acceptance: Drowning yourself in the multiplayer and a strong scotch. Starting the next playthrough knowing what happens at the end.

Sadface.

Mass Effect 3 has created a new 5th stage, Depression pt2.

Acceptance has gone out the window and is currently making its way past the Shrike Abbysal.

I think Mass Effect 3 might just be causing a continuous loop of the five stages. Shrike Abyssal? It's already passed dark space.

[Koobarex]

RowanCF wrote...

Visserian99 wrote...

I hate to say it, but isn't this pretty much the nail in the coffin for Indoctrination Theory?

How? 

They even wanted to do this:

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control.

This just seems like a simpler way of doing it without the gameplay mechanics problem.

Your post gives me hope, kind sir. Indoctrination theory is all we're left here right now.

[-Merk-]

Always nice to have more information from Bioware, whether directly or indirectly.

However this does not change my stance as the consumer.

If Bioware wants a single penny of my money for future ME DLC's or ME Games, they are going to have to redo the ending properly. They are going to have to release it as a free DLC, accompanied by a big fat juicy apology.

Not that I expect Bioware to do that. It's a free market. Bioware can make their games any way they want. It works both ways though. I have freedom too. Therefore no matter what Bioware does in the future, I will never again pre-order their games. I will wait until my friends tell me if they are any good or not. I will also wait until they come down in price before purchasing them.

Isn't freedom grand?