2730 réponses à ce sujet

[Kyzee]

Wow. I'm . . . floored. I was totally behind the Indoctrination Theory. It made perfect sense. And now this? The ending was legitimate? Massive plot holes and all?

I don't know what to feel anymore. My faith in Bioware has been shaken again. I'm going to maintain a "wait and see" policy, I guess. In the meanwhile, I'm going to stick with the Indoctrination Theory, because I cannot abide by terrible, plot-hole filled endings.

[Jsixgun]

We should coin the whole issue for Bioware with "The Great Bio-war on narrative"

[The Big Palooka]

I'm sure someone else has said this already - hard not to repeat each other in threads this size, but I gotta say it anyway.

Some of the quotes in the OP really, really suck, you know? I mean...guys, really? A pretty good amount of people I see defending the endings have repeated over and over that Bioware deserves to end its own story the way it saw fit, but from where I'm standing, a lot of these choices had nothing to do with the actual story; nothing to do with Shepard's character arc, nothing to do with the universe itself.

Instead, choices appear to have been made based upon the sort of fan reaction they wanted to evoke, on how High Concept they wanted to be, on how 'unpredictable'. That's got nothing to do with story, it has to do with how Bioware wants itself to be positioned and viewed post-release - and that is incredibly self-serving. I don't play games so I can justify games as a high-concept art form, I don't play games so I can amuse developers with my post-game speculation. I play games because they're fun, to experience and to think about.

The ending we got wasn't fun to experience, and it's not fun to think about.

You guys, you must have known this wasn't what we expected, you must've known it wasn't what we wanted, you must've known that it wouldn't make us feel awesome - you probably even knew we wouldn't actually like it, even if we accepted it. You made the choices you did for yourselves, not for us. So maybe our tastes are predictable, maybe they're low-concept, maybe they're inherently inferior to whatever you thought you were accomplishing here, but I didn't buy your product to be a guinea pig. I did it because I thought your game would be fun. I'm not ashamed of that. I hope in the future, you won't be, either.

[LilyasAvalon]

I got this, it's actually quite shocking how they thought it was a good idea, I mean... 

....seriously, what were these guys smoking?

Also, complete agree with Palooka, it's less about the ending of Shepards story and more about 'let's make something mind blowing and unforgettable'.

Oh, it was mind blowing and unforgettable alright.... <_<

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 16 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[Esker02]

rapscallioness wrote...

Ah, okay. I think I'm beginning to understand what happened here.

BW really did think that ME fans would appreciate an ending that was different than the usual "video game-y" endings.

I mean, BW definitely had the fans in mind when creating this story. Alot of lil nods to the fans. From Garrus calibrating, to Shepard's bad dancing....they were thinking of us.

And God knows ME fans love to speculate and "theorycraft". Perhaps, just perhaps, they thought this kind of ending would be right up our alley. Something more abstract than 'splosions and pew, pew moments.

Well, true. I don't think anybody seriously thought they were actively saying "lol It'd be real funny if we built this franchise over five years and then tanked it just to watch people drop into depression." They thought they were doing something we'd like, or at least tolerate. Unfortunately, for all of us and for them as well, they were wrong. As long as we can make it clear this isn't just something we're going to need time to "accept" I think we'll be fine. Heck, most people aren't even debating which of the three colors is best, or what will happen to the Normandy crew, or anything like that. They don't care anymore because the constants in the ending(s) stripped the MEverse of everything that MADE us care. That's the problem that only a 'reimagining' of the ending will fix.

Modifié par Esker02, 16 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[SirBob1613]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I got this, it's actually quite shocking how they thought it was a good idea, I mean...

....seriously, what were these guys smoking?

probaly some drug they decided was good to smoke in 10 seconds just like the ending

[tyler182]

 Well I guess this is the best place for my rant. Registered my me3 just to post this.

Loyal fan, favourite developer since kotor and bought all you're games. I can't help but feel terribly betrayed.
The mass effect series presented something no other video game series brought to the table your choice matters. that being said I feel inlove with the series, the story, the characters but everything we expected and promised was crushed with the ending to mass effect 3. I can't fathom how this happened mainly due to the lore contraictions and make no sense. But I can safely say if they don't fix this with the fan idea of the indoctrination theory (which makes perfect sense and can be seemless to make a truly epic finish) then I will not be supporting bioware by buying any games from now on and cancelling my tor account with next month's sub going to the charity to take back mass effect. This is just the vain rant that hopefully if enough voices speak out it will make a difference after all "they listen to the fans".

I have extreme hope that the subtle twitter clues and silence still means hope. I mean april fool's is around the corner right? but frankly if the information in Final Hours is true, I have no interest in the direction of the series and will live knowing that it could have been perfect. Because until the last 10 minutes...it was.

[izmirtheastarach]

I can only imagine that Bioware's intent was for the ending to be fun, interesting, and thought provoking.

But 90% of the fans here all felt the same thing. It wasn't fun. It wasn't interesting. It wasn't thought provoking. Instead, it was a sick feeling in their stomach. That cannot be what Bioware intended, can it? And it it's not, they have GOT to do something about it.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 16 mars 2012 - 01:56 .

[mscotch]

Getorex wrote...

Don't I know it.  THIS is why digital only sucks.  We need hardware disks that we can send back for a refund.  I wont trust them again.  No more pre-orders and, very likely, no future orders at all.

I've given my 1 star rating at Amazon for ME 3 and also submitted my 1 rating to Metacritic with an HONEST assessment of the game.  Great, absolutely fantastic game, until you get to the last 15 to 20 minutes when it renders the ENTIRE series into a pile of steaming crap.

I definitely didn't like the ending but giving the game 1 star is such bs. Especially since you say it's a fantastic game up until that point. 

[scottish_sin]

Kyzee wrote...

Wow. I'm . . . floored. I was totally behind the Indoctrination Theory. It made perfect sense. And now this? The ending was legitimate? Massive plot holes and all?

I don't know what to feel anymore. My faith in Bioware has been shaken again. I'm going to maintain a "wait and see" policy, I guess. In the meanwhile, I'm going to stick with the Indoctrination Theory, because I cannot abide by terrible, plot-hole filled endings.

Yep, totally feel the same way you do. We can only hope, right? 

[KainrycKarr]

.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 16 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[KainrycKarr]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I can only imagine that Bioware's intent was for the ending to be fun, interesting, and thought provoking.

But 90% of the fans here all felt the same thing. It wasn't fun. It wasn't interesting. It wasn't thought provoking. Instead, it was a sick feeling in their stomach. That cannot be what Bioware intended, can it? And it it's not, they have GOT to do something about it.

I agree, and after this thread made by Priestly, I think the problem will be addressed. 

Whether or not it will be addressed to fan's satisfaction....well. I guess we will see, won't we?

[Kyzee]

The Big Palooka wrote...

I'm sure someone else has said this already - hard not to repeat each other in threads this size, but I gotta say it anyway.

Some of the quotes in the OP really, really suck, you know? I mean...guys, really? A pretty good amount of people I see defending the endings have repeated over and over that Bioware deserves to end its own story the way it saw fit, but from where I'm standing, a lot of these choices had nothing to do with the actual story; nothing to do with Shepard's character arc, nothing to do with the universe itself.

Instead, choices appear to have been made based upon the sort of fan reaction they wanted to evoke, on how High Concept they wanted to be, on how 'unpredictable'. That's got nothing to do with story, it has to do with how Bioware wants itself to be positioned and viewed post-release - and that is incredibly self-serving. I don't play games so I can justify games as a high-concept art form, I don't play games so I can amuse developers with my post-game speculation. I play games because they're fun, to experience and to think about.

The ending we got wasn't fun to experience, and it's not fun to think about.

You guys, you must have known this wasn't what we expected, you must've known it wasn't what we wanted, you must've known that it wouldn't make us feel awesome - you probably even knew we wouldn't actually like it, even if we accepted it. You made the choices you did for yourselves, not for us. So maybe our tastes are predictable, maybe they're low-concept, maybe they're inherently inferior to whatever you thought you were accomplishing here, but I didn't buy your product to be a guinea pig. I did it because I thought your game would be fun. I'm not ashamed of that. I hope in the future, you won't be, either.

Yes, exactly. God, I'm so depressed right now. 

[Bigdoser]

I don't know why they would think the endings are good... i just... *sigh*

[novaseeker]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I can only imagine that Bioware's intent was for the ending to be fun, interesting, and thought provoking.

But 90% of the fans here all felt the same thing. It wasn't fun. It wasn't interesting. It wasn't thought provoking. Instead, it was a sick feeling in their stomach. That cannot be what Bioware intended, can it? And it it's not, they have GOT to do something about it.

It's a colossal disconnect.  Their players are *still* mostly gamers.  They bent over backwards, per this app, to make an ending that was not "gamey".  Well, that's a round peg being forced into a square hole.  They made an artsy/hip ending for a game that was about heroic triumph through loyalty building and decision making.  It just didn't fit.  I think they wanted to take the opportunity to show how artsy they are, the players be damned.  It was selfish, really, from the creative perspective, to neglect to take audience reaction into account when crafting the ending.  And if they really did think that this would impress the player base, then there's an even bigger failure, really -- a failure to understand why people liked your games to begin with (and it wasn't to have a 15 minute philosophy minigame as the ending).

[scottish_sin]

mscotch wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Don't I know it.  THIS is why digital only sucks.  We need hardware disks that we can send back for a refund.  I wont trust them again.  No more pre-orders and, very likely, no future orders at all.

I've given my 1 star rating at Amazon for ME 3 and also submitted my 1 rating to Metacritic with an HONEST assessment of the game.  Great, absolutely fantastic game, until you get to the last 15 to 20 minutes when it renders the ENTIRE series into a pile of steaming crap.

I definitely didn't like the ending but giving the game 1 star is such bs. Especially since you say it's a fantastic game up until that point. 

Yeah, I agree. I don't condone that type of action by voting the game 1 star across various sites just because of the ending. I mean, yeah... the end is terrible but the series and everything leading up to that point is amazing. I think that's why people are so dumbfounded because nobobdy could have imagined it coming to that in the end.

[Zulmoka531]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I can only imagine that Bioware's intent was for the ending to be fun, interesting, and thought provoking.

But 90% of the fans here all felt the same thing. It wasn't fun. It wasn't interesting. It wasn't thought provoking. Instead, it was a sick feeling in their stomach. That cannot be what Bioware intended, can it? And it it's not, they have GOT to do something about it.

Exactly, like Esker said above you. Instead of people discussing what beam means what for the future, or how the races are gonna evolve into the future free from Reaper influence, nearly everyone on here is saying the same thing.

We don't like the endings. There's very little room for interpretation aside from which color pill you'd like to swallow. Even then you wake up still in the tank.

[TenmaTaro]

The game does a 180 in the final minutes of the game by introducing the Starchild, and BW decides that the details surrounding it are things we don't need to know? That is seriously a slap in the face to all the fans. People have been wondering about the origins of the Reapers and the cycle for years, coming up with pages of theories. Then Starchild comes along and not only refuses to explain anything about the Reapers (other than synthetic vs. organics), but also leaves us with more questions than answers. I'm definitely not as...passionate as some of the other ppl here, but I seriously can't see myself supporting BW after that. Sucks, since I greatly enjoyed game leading up to that point.

Modifié par AeonFrog, 16 mars 2012 - 02:08 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Exactly, like Esker said above you. Instead of people discussing what beam means what for the future, or how the races are gonna evolve into the future free from Reaper influence, nearly everyone on here is saying the same thing.

We don't like the endings. There's very little room for interpretation aside from which color pill you'd like to swallow. Even then you wake up still in the tank.

Yep. It's not about discussion. All we are discussing is about how disappointed we were. Most of the discussion about the specifics of the endings is an attempt to explain our way around them. It's not a healthy debate. It's people grasping at straws, struggling to come up with reasons why 90+ hours of gaming time wasn't wasted.

I deperately hope that Bioware understands that this is what is going on.  How could they not? The initial poll has 50,000 votes. It is the most popular poll in the history of the BSN. It has been viewed 325,000 times. The messege cannot get much clearer.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 16 mars 2012 - 02:12 .

[Pain Train]

What do I want to pay $3 for an app of info about the game that should be free? It would seem that the continued milking of the ME crowd has already begin.

[Reign762]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I deperately hope that Bioware understands that this is what is going on.

I as well desperately hope ... but after reading this Final Hours jazz ... my hope is waning.

[izmirtheastarach]

Pain Train wrote...

What do I want to pay $3 for an app of info about the game that should be free? It would seem that the continued milking of the ME crowd has already begin.

To be fair, that money doesn't go to Bioware. It's not their product.

[yoshibb]

What gets me most is that many times it's mentioned that they think we'll find more dialogue and investigation long and unnecessary.

I mean you have three modes. Anyone think of just putting the bare minimum in action mode for the shooter crowd and then give us the dialogue we want in story and RPG mode. I mean, I thought that's what those modes were for?

[Hepatitis P]

Was my last Bioware and i will strongly advise everyone i know not to buy this overall good but trilogy breaking piece of donkey****

(AVGN greets only he could express how i feel about it)

[Ricvenart]

kewken wrote...

Q: What did you think of the ending? Is this addressed in the story?
A: "I've seen the uproar online about the ending and understand the fan perspective. Personally I respect the creative choices the team made and had no problems with how the story ended -- it made you feel something, even if that feeling was uncomfortable."


This must be THE most stupid statement ever made by a company in the history of mankind. "We want to make our customers feel uncomfortable"

By all means make people uncomfortable, make them realise they are no better then the reapers and not worth saving, or defending Synthetics lead to the reapers or whatever. these are just a couple of ideas in a couple of seconds with no one to bounce off.

BUT DO IT THE RIGHT WAY. There's an artist called Grayson Perry (2003 turner prize winner), He's all about making people uncomfortable, he makes amazing ceramics Vases that you'd expect to see in a nice home, but the surface is marred with images of abused children. This is how you invoke negative emotion with purpose. What you done has no value, there is no purpose and it is not "art", you just have a bunch of desperate people that feel conned for 5 years grasping at straws. Take yourselves down a notch because you think far too much of yourselves Bioware.