2730 réponses à ce sujet

[terdferguson123]

Revan312 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

Sure, but you did more than just get them on your side for the final battle (or lack thereof) you changed their future has a race. Whether you united the Quarians and Geth, or destroyed one or the other, or you didn't defuse the bomb on Tuchanka and screwed over the Krogan, you changed those races for the future, good or bad. If they didn't help you in the reaper fight then that's neither here nor there, the consequence of your choice was shown, now you can only imagine what will happen if you chose the Geth over the Quarians. And thats what I am saying, use that imagination. If you think that everyone is stuck in the Sol relay, then use your imagination as to how they may have gotten out (or didn't). I'm sure you that a giant group of people capable of building the crucible are able to figure out how to get home.

*facepalm*

All the relays are gone.. the only reason the crucible was built was because they had vague blueprints, blueprints to something they built that nobody even knew how it worked.

So, with that in mind, they're not gonna build new relays, period.  Half the fleet is decimated, relays gone, half the forces can't survive on earth even it was suitable enough to support them, and it's not, because they just had a freaking machine god war play out over weeks if not months there..

So really, me sticking cupids arrow into the geth and quarians means nothing, as the Quarians are all dead for coming to help take back earth. The Turians too. Plus theres a 1 billion ton space station about to crash into Earth in two endings so, there's the whole complete annihilation of Earth thing goin on as well..

None of that is even taking into account the ridiculousness of a machine race saving organics from machines by killing all organics... with freaking machines!!

It was a ludicrous ending.. If you've somehow twisted the ending into something that makes even a lick of sense than you obviously just theory crafted the finale out of existance, as that's what it takes..

The Reapers are not only synthetic, they are Synthetic and Organic. So, no, they were not just synthetics, they were the merged existence of both which is what the child thought was the only true way to live. With that said: OF COURSE The catalyst's logic is flawed, it's made to be, why do you think the game constantly gave you AI companions throughout, its because the game wanted you to realize that the Catalyst was incorrect, that Synthetics and Organics could survive together without merging. THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT. Just because the catalyst said it does not make it 100% true, Shepard knew otherwise. Don't face palm me with your own lack of logic.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 16 mars 2012 - 05:02 .

[J-Reyno]

terdferguson123 wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...


Why? Anyone who is taking the endings at complete face value is a fool. They are obviously created to be interpreted many different ways hence the "Speculation from Everyone" quote. That was the point, and in my opinion they succeeded.

The game was not advertised to have speculations. This game was specifically advertised that it will answer all of the questions. If you have to imagine so that the ending would make remote sense, would that be considered "working as advertised"?

Surprise surprise, and you're the one who said we should use our brains.

This game was advertised to answer your questions about commander shepard's story. Which it did. You know exactly what happened to Shepard, whats up in the air is what happened to everyone else. It was never advertised to explain that. Find me a link that said it will answer all of your questions about every galactic race and every character besides commander shepard?

No, just no... absolutely not.  A story doesn't just consist of a single character.  Those squadmates, the people who played an important role throughout these games, they ARE a part of Shepard's story.  Otherwise, they wouldn't be there.  No one needs to know what happened to Generic Male B, but telling us what happened to those characters we care about, the earth we fought for, and the galactic civilization that we've become familiar with would have been nice.  Who survived?  How do they go on?  How does earth manage in the coming years?

These are things that should have been explained.  There is no closure, it's simply "pick a color, any color", things blow up, the Normandy crashes and cut.  Who knows what the hell happens to anyone.  

[yukon fire]

BouncyTem,

Your writing it wrong it's actually "rEApers" and yes it is their fault.

[johnbonhamatron]

I finally figured out how to explain it to the best of my abilities! Gimme a sec, this may be a long post, and it might get a bit pseudointellectual, but that seems kind of appropriate, all things considered...

Right, this is in answer to the idea that we already know how the choices from the previous games play out in ME3, because we saw them play out earlier in the game. And yes, we did, we knew exactly how things had played out, up to the endings. And that's kind of important, because the endings themselves throw a huge spanner in the works.

Put simply, the endings didn;t just change the fates of characters or races, they changed the entire rules-set of the narrative that had been built up previously. At that moment, all bets were off, and this new narrative clearly had very different rules to the previous narrative. That's a problem, because we now no longer have any idea about the rules of the galaxy, as it were, from which to infer the fates of the various races or individuals.

Thus, we come back to rationalisation, not speculation. It's impossible to accurately speculate, because we have no framework to speculate. Perhaps the green power beam changed every fifth planet to cheese. Perhaps the red power beam had a bizarre aversion ot vacuum cleaners. We simply don't have any way to work that out, because the rules of the story universe have changed.

We literally, at that point, know nothing, so in a sense, we aren't even given a glimpse of this brave new world. We cannot deduce anything, therefore, we cannot deduce the fates of the people we've grown to care about, other than that they're on a planet. Somewhere. Which has two satellites, unless it's Earth, and Earth has grown a new moon (which we also count rule out, with the information we're given).

Thus, the ending becomes meaningless, for the simple that we can't infer any meaning from it. Or, more likely, we can infer too much meaning from it, and literally make up whatever the hell we want.

That, to me, is why it's a bad ending, and why it nullifies everything we've seen up to that point.

[XavierHollywood]

honestly I think they would have been better off if they had made just one single ending with altered or added scenes to it depending on what you accomplished.

you defeat the Reapers regardless in this ending, but lets say you are a completionist that managed to get everyone working together and get the best ending. Well in that case we can see the people on Earth rejoicing, your surviving crew members embracing, the different races in orbit celebrating their victory.

Then you know, cut ahead in time a bit and show Rannoch being resettled by the Quarians (with or without the Geth's help, showcase Tali in a prominent leadership role) or instead just show the Geth on the planet if the Quarians are out of the picture.
Do the same thing for Garrus and the Primarch on Palaven and Wrex on Tuchanka in montage form , or show the seeds of another conflict arising (if Wreav is in charge of the Krogan and Eve is dead) etc etc.

Showing the galactic aftermath really wouldnt even need that much to make it successful. The rebuilding process across worlds could be done exclusively through imagery without dialogue.

Then top it off with a more intimate scene of the crew members and Shep (if he/she survives). Maybe a quick convo with a worn down Shep in bed with his love interest if he kept the same one through the series and they survived. Just stuff needed to add proper closure to the characters we love. Then if you want to have some speculation thrown in, AFTER the credits we can get a shot of a mass relay suddenly go on the fritz and short out (deactivating in a blast of light but not a potentially fatal blast). From there, have the camera pan out to show the galaxy to show these blasts of light happening all over.

Then we can all go on a speculate why this happened yadda yadda. We have our closure and we have our speculation.

One unified ending, that would have significant omissions or additions to it depending on your choices, to show that what you did throughout the series did impact the end.

[tacosrule]

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

that sounds like it helps the indoctrination theory

[Revan312]

terdferguson123 wrote...

The Reapers are not only synthetic, they are Synthetic and Organic. So, no, they were not just synthetics, they were the merged existence of both which is what the child thought was the only true way to live. With that said: OF COURSE The logic is flawed, it's made to be, why do you think the game constaly gave you AI companions throughout, its because the game wanted you to realize that the Catalyst was incorrect that Synthetics and Organics could survive together without merging. THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT. Just because the catalyst said it does not make it 100% true, Shepard knew otherwise. Don't face palm me with your own lack of logic.

Shepard knew otherwise? How?  In my "ending" which involved a character with head trauma shooting out a glass tube that did... something... He killed all synthetics.. because he ya know, took the word of a hologram that he's never seen before as the word of god..

Or there's the merge ending, which again contradicts what your saying, as Shepard obviously bought the hoodie equipped holo Damien's speech and thinks that he can disintigrate into a beam of light and that will magically change everyone's bodies into half organic/synthetic hybrid cyborgs... somehow.. 

Finally the control ending, where Shepard dies in the process of taking control of the reapers?  How's that work? So disintigrating while holding onto lightning rods and a blue beam shoots out allows what.. Shepard's conciousness to merge with a million, mile long machine's? Huh? Or is it like a last wish thing.. "Please don't kill us all,I'd really appreciaYAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA, THE PAIN!!!"

The Catalyst is a MacGuffin, and a badly written one at that.. So after the entire galaxie's worth of scientists spend months building this... thing.. none of them still understand what it does?  Really?!

And why does the god child even need Shepard to make the decision?  He obviously wants the merge ending, so why not just do it?  Instead he brings a half dead human up to make the decision, a human that now can't seem to form a coherent thought so instead just kills him/herself to screw over the galaxy in a different way.. YAY!!

It was poorly conceived, poorly written and had no room for interpritation as it's such a confused mess that attempting to rationalize it is like trying to jump downwards.. And the epilogue was as deep as ****** on a sidewalk so.. ya.. It was a bad ending, objectively bad...

[Wolfsong27]

... I was just starting to get over all of the hurt with this hope that things would be set right.
And now this just rips all the wounds open again.

I realize these comments were during production, but they just serve to prove how far off base the team's mindset was.
I truly do understand what they were trying to accomplish, and maybe for a one-disc game this would've been fine, but not for a trilogy where you helped shape the very fabric of the world.

Each game is it's own Galaxy shaped by the player's Shepard. It's what happens when you give the player free-choice instead of a book to read and a gun to turn the pages with.
So I want to see what would happen in -my- Shepard's story, not the ending that this team crafted believing that it would just miraculously fit every player out there.

A huge undertaking? Absolutely. But that's what we've come to expect from Bioware.
It's a compliment your fanbase thinks so highly of you, and the amount we used to gladly spend in good faith on pre-orders and DLCs proves it.

I know you guys can do better, I've seen it.

[Dilandau3000]

The tweets had been giving me this impression for a while: that they did this because they wanted us to speculate.

I can see why they wanted to do it. It's even a good idea. They just did it wrong. They went too far into the vague, and left us with an ending where the only differences are in our head. It also requires some truly incredible leaps of logic to twist what was presented into a hopeful ending, which is not a good thing.

And none of it excuses the lack of emotional connection. If we could've just seen people we care about react to the reapers' demise (rather than a handful of soldiers), and then to Shepard's fate, it would've improved things so much already.

[Kyneris]

Well, Casey. Hudson said that the ending of Mass Effect 3 would be something truly unforgettable. You gotta hand it to him, mission accomplished. Credit where credit is due...

[cinderburster]

Kyneris wrote...

Well, Casey. Hudson said that the ending of Mass Effect 3 would be something truly unforgettable. You gotta hand it to him, mission accomplished. Credit where credit is due...

There's unforgettable and then there's infamous.

Somehow I doubt he was aiming for the latter, but that's what he hit.

[TobyTucker]

If BioWare wasn't so concerned with somebody "leaking" the ending, they could have focus-grouped the game with some long term fans and discovered they had a problem on their hands. Then again, if there were the wide range of "endings" like we were promised, that wouldn't even be an issue, would it?

[charmedmeat]

tacosrule wrote...

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

that sounds like it helps the indoctrination theory

It sounds to me like they had absolutely no idea how to end the series and were flailing.

[evisneffo]

This doesn't fill me with much hope. Surely there are ways to leave parts of an ending open for interpretation and speculation without divorcing it from the body of the story entirely, dampening the worth of an entire franchise and breaking much of the trust of the fanbase.

[terdferguson123]

Revan312 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

The Reapers are not only synthetic, they are Synthetic and Organic. So, no, they were not just synthetics, they were the merged existence of both which is what the child thought was the only true way to live. With that said: OF COURSE The logic is flawed, it's made to be, why do you think the game constaly gave you AI companions throughout, its because the game wanted you to realize that the Catalyst was incorrect that Synthetics and Organics could survive together without merging. THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT. Just because the catalyst said it does not make it 100% true, Shepard knew otherwise. Don't face palm me with your own lack of logic.

Shepard knew otherwise? How?  In my "ending" which involved a character with head trauma shooting out a glass tube that did... something... He killed all synthetics.. because he ya know, took the word of a hologram that he's never seen before as the word of god..

Or there's the merge ending, which again contradicts what your saying, as Shepard obviously bought the hoodie equipped holo Damien's speech and thinks that he can disintigrate into a beam of light and that will magically change everyone's bodies into half organic/synthetic hybrid cyborgs... somehow.. 

Finally the control ending, where Shepard dies in the process of taking control of the reapers?  How's that work? So disintigrating while holding onto lightning rods and a blue beam shoots out allows what.. Shepard's conciousness to merge with a million, mile long machine's? Huh? Or is it like a last wish thing.. "Please don't kill us all,I'd really appreciaYAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA, THE PAIN!!!"

The Catalyst is a MacGuffin, and a badly written one at that.. So after the entire galaxie's worth of scientists spend months building this... thing.. none of them still understand what it does?  Really?!

And why does the god child even need Shepard to make the decision?  He obviously wants the merge ending, so why not just do it?  Instead he brings a half dead human up to make the decision, a human that now can't seem to form a coherent thought so instead just kills him/herself to screw over the galaxy in a different way.. YAY!!

It was poorly conceived, poorly written and had no room for interpritation as it's such a confused mess that attempting to rationalize it is like trying to jump downwards.. And the epilogue was as deep as ****** on a sidewalk so.. ya.. It was a bad ending, objectively bad...

Shepard knew otherwise because he knew the catalyst was lying to get what he wanted - synthesis, or to a lesser extent control because the indoctrination of Shepard is what the Reapers wanted all along. Shepard knew the kid was lying, hence why after the kid told him that he would die in the destroy ending, he still survived.

[charmedmeat]

Revan312 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

The Reapers are not only synthetic, they are Synthetic and Organic. So, no, they were not just synthetics, they were the merged existence of both which is what the child thought was the only true way to live. With that said: OF COURSE The logic is flawed, it's made to be, why do you think the game constaly gave you AI companions throughout, its because the game wanted you to realize that the Catalyst was incorrect that Synthetics and Organics could survive together without merging. THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT. Just because the catalyst said it does not make it 100% true, Shepard knew otherwise. Don't face palm me with your own lack of logic.

Shepard knew otherwise? How?  In my "ending" which involved a character with head trauma shooting out a glass tube that did... something... He killed all synthetics.. because he ya know, took the word of a hologram that he's never seen before as the word of god..

Or there's the merge ending, which again contradicts what your saying, as Shepard obviously bought the hoodie equipped holo Damien's speech and thinks that he can disintigrate into a beam of light and that will magically change everyone's bodies into half organic/synthetic hybrid cyborgs... somehow.. 

Finally the control ending, where Shepard dies in the process of taking control of the reapers?  How's that work? So disintigrating while holding onto lightning rods and a blue beam shoots out allows what.. Shepard's conciousness to merge with a million, mile long machine's? Huh? Or is it like a last wish thing.. "Please don't kill us all,I'd really appreciaYAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA, THE PAIN!!!"

The Catalyst is a MacGuffin, and a badly written one at that.. So after the entire galaxie's worth of scientists spend months building this... thing.. none of them still understand what it does?  Really?!

And why does the god child even need Shepard to make the decision?  He obviously wants the merge ending, so why not just do it?  Instead he brings a half dead human up to make the decision, a human that now can't seem to form a coherent thought so instead just kills him/herself to screw over the galaxy in a different way.. YAY!!

It was poorly conceived, poorly written and had no room for interpritation as it's such a confused mess that attempting to rationalize it is like trying to jump downwards.. And the epilogue was as deep as ****** on a sidewalk so.. ya.. It was a bad ending, objectively bad...

[Edje Edgar]

Abandon all hope ye who enters this thread!

[GreenDragon37]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

The Reapers are not only synthetic, they are Synthetic and Organic. So, no, they were not just synthetics, they were the merged existence of both which is what the child thought was the only true way to live. With that said: OF COURSE The logic is flawed, it's made to be, why do you think the game constaly gave you AI companions throughout, its because the game wanted you to realize that the Catalyst was incorrect that Synthetics and Organics could survive together without merging. THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT. Just because the catalyst said it does not make it 100% true, Shepard knew otherwise. Don't face palm me with your own lack of logic.

Shepard knew otherwise? How?  In my "ending" which involved a character with head trauma shooting out a glass tube that did... something... He killed all synthetics.. because he ya know, took the word of a hologram that he's never seen before as the word of god..

Or there's the merge ending, which again contradicts what your saying, as Shepard obviously bought the hoodie equipped holo Damien's speech and thinks that he can disintigrate into a beam of light and that will magically change everyone's bodies into half organic/synthetic hybrid cyborgs... somehow.. 

Finally the control ending, where Shepard dies in the process of taking control of the reapers?  How's that work? So disintigrating while holding onto lightning rods and a blue beam shoots out allows what.. Shepard's conciousness to merge with a million, mile long machine's? Huh? Or is it like a last wish thing.. "Please don't kill us all,I'd really appreciaYAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA, THE PAIN!!!"

The Catalyst is a MacGuffin, and a badly written one at that.. So after the entire galaxie's worth of scientists spend months building this... thing.. none of them still understand what it does?  Really?!

And why does the god child even need Shepard to make the decision?  He obviously wants the merge ending, so why not just do it?  Instead he brings a half dead human up to make the decision, a human that now can't seem to form a coherent thought so instead just kills him/herself to screw over the galaxy in a different way.. YAY!!

It was poorly conceived, poorly written and had no room for interpritation as it's such a confused mess that attempting to rationalize it is like trying to jump downwards.. And the epilogue was as deep as ****** on a sidewalk so.. ya.. It was a bad ending, objectively bad...

Shepard knew otherwise because he knew the catalyst was lying to get what he wanted - synthesis, or to a lesser extent control because the indoctrination of Shepard is what the Reapers wanted all along. Shepard knew the kid was lying, hence why after the kid told him that he would die in the destroy ending, he still survived.

Yet another plot-hole: How did Shep survive the explosion of the largest space station in the galaxy and survive re-entry into the atmosphere? Shep was bleeding-out a few minutes ago, and  that atmospheric entry didn't work too well for him in ME2, and there's no-way Earth survived from that level of destruction when the Citadel blew and the debris will land on the planet. It was an easter-egg. Plain and simple.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 16 mars 2012 - 05:37 .

[l7986]

Yea so please dont let the ME3 writing team anywere near the end of Dragon Age 3.

[leondes1]

Hi, this is the first time I'm commenting here. Been promoting the charity drive though facebook and other ways.

I just wanted to let you all know what I heard from Brandon Keener aka Garrus. I didn't even really expect any response. I was quite shocked to get one.

Brandon Keener - can't make any comment about ME3's ending (spoilers, etc.), but kudos to you for making the lives of sick kids brighter. That is very kind!

https://www.facebook...f_t=share_reply

Hope that link works.

[Pikku Shinto]

l7986 wrote...

Yea so please dont let the ME3 writing team anywere near the end of Dragon Age 3.

That's if they're around to make it after all this. Or if anyone would even buy it to last.

[darkshadow136]

leondes1 wrote...

Hi, this is the first time I'm commenting here. Been promoting the charity drive though facebook and other ways.

I just wanted to let you all know what I heard from Brandon Keener aka Garrus. I didn't even really expect any response. I was quite shocked to get one.

Brandon Keener - can't make any comment about ME3's ending (spoilers, etc.), but kudos to you for making the lives of sick kids brighter. That is very kind!

https://www.facebook...f_t=share_reply

Hope that link works.

Yeah with them I'm sure they signed NDA's so it was nice he at least responded.

[varcety]

RIP indoctrination theory.

[GreenDragon37]

viperabyss wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

This game was advertised to answer your questions about commander shepard's story. Which it did. You know exactly what happened to Shepard, whats up in the air is what happened to everyone else. It was never advertised to explain that. Find me a link that said it will answer all of your questions about every galactic race and every character besides commander shepard?

Two Quotes from Casey Hudson, pre-ME3 release.

"It's more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them." 

So he promised we at least would know about civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. We knew neither of them by the ending.

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C"

 


So, any more questions?

Ah, yes. I was looking for these quotes. Thank you!