2730 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

How about being able to show the little pissant Guardian how much of a colossal idiot he is by showing that synthetics and organics can live in peace together by showing something like the quarians and the geth living together if you made peace between them instead of subjecting yourself to these horrendous choices and reasons?

If I was Shepard, I would have called the Guardian out on his stupidity.

Making synthetics periodically and systematically kill us all to prevent synthetics from killing us all anyway...what an idiot. Shepard dies because the Guardian is so stupid.

He just proves that experience doesn't come with age if he's millions of years old, since he has the same intellectual level as the kid he's impersonating.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 16 mars 2012 - 12:08 .

[Jobasha]

I can relate to the desire of doing something untraditional, but, as @isig put it, they probably just went overboard with their ego. To escape some videogame clichés (boss fight, detailed explanations) they fell into narrative clichés that usually belong to other media, that is "dreamy stuff", "open-ended finale", "planting seeds of doubt into the audience/reader/player", things few authors are able to pull off without being ridiculous.

The really bad thing is that at least the videogame clichés belong in a videogame and usually can be implemented in a much smoother way, due to experience and familiarity of the developers with them. The clichés BW came up with in the endings are just as trite AND they are really out of place in that context.

[MattFini]

I love the "terminator reaper" ... it was over-the-top, but it was really fun.

[Xernius]

Even if there are new titles coming that play out prior to Shepard's story or in the middle of it with a new protagonist....I just can't see how I personally would be able to get into it, knowing what void awaits in 2186. That's just my personal feelings on the matter right now, but it has sort of burned itself into my mind right now and it's impossible to look past it.

[Optimus J]

Exolyps wrote...

Even after reading this, I still think they are planning to release the real ending soon. Perhaps in a week.

There is no way they can go and admit things on the app when they have gone this far denying things. Wouldn't make sense.

The app is a part of the indoctrination.

Forums were closed yesterday.
Just that, EVERYONE in EVERY BOARD of ME3 was UNABLE to post anything, in a rage attack of Priestly, after this documentary discredited every Tweet they made promissing us something they NEVER had.

That nails the coffin for me. In a week they can have nothing more than a rough storyboard.

And remember that DLC will NOT sell until they fix it. So anything they had to sell they will have to release as free just to keep us until the fix that crap.

Well, Casey must be kicking himself now on why the hell he thought he could be "artistic" and "revolutionary" with the end of the game, without weighting the effect on his career.

Funny thing is that Life is about to copy the "art". And his Career is about to "pull a Shepard".

Modifié par Optimus J, 16 mars 2012 - 12:11 .

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

2nd of February 2012
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

He added: "I honestly think the player base is going to be really happy with the way we've done it. You had a part in it. Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.
"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people." 

Now all together:
LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

And also

But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"

Seriously, I don't remember other devs giving proof they lied like that.
Yeah, marketing, PR, etc.

The lovely ideo Game industry:
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

[isig]

Sith Reaper wrote...


I think actually the videogamey comment makes sense, considering the boss fight of ME2 was not well-received for being too "videogamey."

Personally, I don't care whether there is (or isn't) a boss fight at the end.. that's not what makes or breaks a good game, imo. There are plenty of great games without any boss fights (different genre, though) and there are others with extremely typical "videogamey" boss fights that still somehow manage not to detract from the overall quality of the game and it's story.

But  I digress.. what I meant was that the whole approach to how they've handled the ending, that it has to be 'high-concept' or whatever, just screams (unnecessary) elitism to me.  
Like I said, it's just how it looks like to me, personally. 

But what really bugs me now  (as a paying customer) is seeing all those quotes from before about how the game is going to be all about choice, and this and that, and closure and blabla, and in the end we really didn't get what was advertised at all.  As a result, I no longer trust in what they are telling us about (any of) their (future) products. Period. 

Modifié par isig, 16 mars 2012 - 12:17 .

[baronkohinar]

If they don't give us a satisfactory ending, the least they could do is release the Marauder Shields side-story DLC...

[RobinEJ]

Capeo wrote...

Exolyps wrote...

Even after reading this, I still think they are planning to release the real ending soon. Perhaps in a week.

There is no way they can go and admit things on the app when they have gone this far denying things. Wouldn't make sense.

The app is a part of the indoctrination.

The app is not from Bioware.  Don't know how many times this must be said.  They gave this guy from a game site access to BW studios in November but they did not release the app or it's contents themselves.

But app's content IS from Bioware

[baronkohinar]

Or maybe that's what ME 4-6 will be? The saga of Marauder Shields?

[Someone With Mass]

Jobasha wrote...

I can relate to the desire of doing something untraditional, but, as @isig put it, they probably just went overboard with their ego. To escape some videogame clichés (boss fight, detailed explanations) they fell into narrative clichés that usually belong to other media, that is "dreamy stuff", "open-ended finale", "planting seeds of doubt into the audience/reader/player", things few authors are able to pull off without being ridiculous.

The really bad thing is that at least the videogame clichés belong in a videogame and usually can be implemented in a much smoother way, due to experience and familiarity of the developers with them. The clichés BW came up with in the endings are just as trite AND they are really out of place in that context.

But the really insulting thing is that they had to spend months to come up with this ending, while I've seen people spend no more than an hour to come up with better and more solid things than that.

It's just sad.

Not to mention they they're just making past choices, both in this and the previous games moot by relying on the war asset score, rather than the choices. It's depressing, knowing that some of my favorite characters gave up their lives for something like this, which is falling part for trying to do something radical, edgy and artsy instead of something sensible.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 16 mars 2012 - 12:19 .

[Salyut]

Jobasha wrote...

I can relate to the desire of doing something untraditional, but, as @isig put it, they probably just went overboard with their ego. To escape some videogame clichés (boss fight, detailed explanations) they fell into narrative clichés that usually belong to other media, that is "dreamy stuff", "open-ended finale", "planting seeds of doubt into the audience/reader/player", things few authors are able to pull off without being ridiculous.

The really bad thing is that at least the videogame clichés belong in a videogame and usually can be implemented in a much smoother way, due to experience and familiarity of the developers with them. The clichés BW came up with in the endings are just as trite AND they are really out of place in that context.

The sad thing is that there have already been a couple of video games who tried these sort of clichés, so it's not that new in a video game. It's usually not that well received either, because gamers are not dumb. We've seen enough movies and read enough books to not be impressed by some hackneyed attempt at being artsy. If you can't make a poignant or interesting point, then don't try doing so by badly emulating others. What's wrong with simply making an ending that's satisfying and enjoyable.

[Someone With Mass]

Ghost Rider LSOV wrote...

2nd of February 2012
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

He added: "I honestly think the player base is going to be really happy with the way we've done it. You had a part in it. Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.
"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people." 

Now all together:
LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

And also

But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"

Seriously, I don't remember other devs giving proof they lied like that.
Yeah, marketing, PR, etc.

The lovely ideo Game industry:
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

It's the journey that matters, not the ending!

Seriously, who let him near the script?

[kongenial]

baronkohinar wrote...

Or maybe that's what ME 4-6 will be? The saga of Marauder Shields?

ME4: Star-God-Childs rise
ME5: Star-God-Child - The ultimative interlude
ME6: Revenge of the Star-God-Child
ME7: Marauder Shields vs. Star-God-Child
ME8: Space Magic - The Game

Modifié par kongenial, 16 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[Kitten Tactics]

I can TOTALLY respect the want to do something out-of-the-box and unexpected.

But you do NOT do that at the end of a trilogy that a massive fan base loves for VERY specific reasons.

And you do NOT do that when you promise something else entirely for twelve months, including the day you accept money for that promise.

Do that on your next game. Or do that in your head. But don't lie to us.

[Salyut]

Ghost Rider LSOV wrote...

2nd of February 2012
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

He added: "I honestly think the player base is going to be really happy with the way we've done it. You had a part in it. Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.
"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people." 

Now all together:
LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

And also

But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"

Seriously, I don't remember other devs giving proof they lied like that.
Yeah, marketing, PR, etc.

The lovely ideo Game industry:
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

I know. This is what gets to me the most. If they'd simply been vague and said 'the ending will blow you away'... well, they would have been right from a certain point of view. Instead they promised us something they knew they wouldn't deliver. That's just... wrong.

[Bantz]

JasonTan87 wrote...

UKillMeLongTime wrote...

rather see him fired

That's mean.  

I think he genuinely thought that it was a decent ending.  That's the thing about being overly exposed to your work; you become blind to the flaws because you don't have the creative distance to see things objectively.  He did not realize that it was terrible when watched fresh because he was caught up with all the clever concepts.

In any case, he has to make amends, one way or another.  Either through fixing it somehow, or at the very least acknowledging that it was terrible.

i don't think so. I'm sure he THOUGHT the endings were good but they weren't. Good intention doesn't make up for being inept. If a surgeon is doing a surgery and accidently nips an artery that causes the client to bleed to death because he thought doing the surgery this "new and exciting way" would be better it doesn't make up for the fact that he failed at his job.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Salyut wrote...
I know. This is what gets to me the most. If they'd simply been vague and said 'the ending will blow you away'... well, they would have been right from a certain point of view. Instead they promised us something they knew they wouldn't deliver. That's just... wrong.

I agree completely.
There is no room for misinterpretation.

[NorthAI]

What amazes me is the sheer arrogance shown by Bioware. Pretty much every gaming site out there is on fire with disgruntled Mass Effect players voicing their displeasure. This forum contains so many thousands of them that I am frankly amazed the servers aren't buckling under the pressure. Hell, even a small Eve Online roleplayer's board has got threads dedicated to this.

And they just dismiss it as "you just don't get it."

Who in their right mind decides this is an appropriate response to what is damn near the biggest gamer riot in modern history? Who thinks it's a good idea to not only create this flood of anger, disappointment and rejection but then for all intents and purposes point and laugh derisively at them?

Newsflash: When this many gamers come together under one flag, angry and disappointed... YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG. This much smoke don't just appear out of nowhere. You set a fire and then you for some mindboggling reason decided to ****** fuel on it.

I really don't understand how Bioware function anymore.

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

Does Mass Effect 3 count as an RPG?

[Fulgrim88]

kongenial wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Exolyps wrote...

Even after reading this, I still think they are planning to release the real ending soon. Perhaps in a week.

There is no way they can go and admit things on the app when they have gone this far denying things. Wouldn't make sense.

The app is a part of the indoctrination.

The app is not from Bioware.  Don't know how many times this must be said.  They gave this guy from a game site access to BW studios in November but they did not release the app or it's contents themselves.

But they did permit his work and approved the content he publishes. And they must have any use of this, as they are not a charity for letting him earn money with "exclusive insights".

I honestly don't think so.

This whole app is really just a little "behind the scenes" of the development process.
Notes about the ending are just a tiny, tiny speck of the whole content. It wasn't designed around it, or meant to be a big reveal.

They simply didn't foresee that their chosen ending would end up receiving such bad responses.

It sounds baffling, but it's quite possible that they actually believed the ending was good. Or, at least, controversial.

As opposed to us, they didn't play the game not knowing what would happen. They were all deeply involved in the development process, and learned about the ending from the writers themselves, likely selling it as the deep, philosophical "classic Sci Fi" wrapup they must believe it to be.

In that light, it's quite possible to oversee the many flaws.

The app now revealing the ending (and thereby the whole issue) as intentional, is just an unwelcome side effect

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 16 mars 2012 - 12:29 .

[Someone With Mass]

The most hilarious thing about the endings is that the Guardian proved that EDI is a better AI than he ever will be.

He says that he can't destroy himself because of his programming, right?

EDI can kill herself with no problems at all if she so choose to, AND she can alter her core programming.

She would have been a much better Guardian. Mostly because she probably wouldn't resort to doing something as stupid as creating synthetics to kill, torture and convert organics, just to protect them from synthetics.

[Jobasha]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Jobasha wrote...

I can relate to the desire of doing something untraditional, but, as @isig put it, they probably just went overboard with their ego. To escape some videogame clichés (boss fight, detailed explanations) they fell into narrative clichés that usually belong to other media, that is "dreamy stuff", "open-ended finale", "planting seeds of doubt into the audience/reader/player", things few authors are able to pull off without being ridiculous.

The really bad thing is that at least the videogame clichés belong in a videogame and usually can be implemented in a much smoother way, due to experience and familiarity of the developers with them. The clichés BW came up with in the endings are just as trite AND they are really out of place in that context.

But the really insulting thing is that they had to spend months to come up with this ending, while I've seen people spend no more than an hour to come up with better and more solid things than that.

It's just sad.

Not to mention they they're just making past choices, both in this and the previous games moot by relying on the war asset score, rather than the choices. It's depressing, knowing that some of my favorite characters gave up their lives for something like this, which is falling part for trying to do something radical, edgy and artsy instead of something sensible.

I agree that they could have done much better in a much shorter time, but that's what you get when marketing and PR get too close to the actual creative or productive process, and that goes for any kind of business, really.

I do not so agree about the "choices" complaint instead, because I really think the choices should determine HOW you get to the final confrontation, but the paths should converge at the end. So, I would actually like even LESS choice at the end (destroy the Reapers, period), I would just like the ending to be sound, consistent, thorough and final. But this is only according to my personal taste, obviously.