36 réponses à ce sujet

[Rostand82]

 I rushed in finishing last night ME3 and if some else already wrote similar thoughts please excuse me.

I don't like it but It seems that the synthesis choice is the best even if the story in ME3 doesn't atone to it.

First, from a gameplay point of view It's a choice available only with certain condition of ems. That shoud be enough to make clear that developers/writers had in mind to give it as the perfect ending.

Second: it's not a reaper victory, by that we should imply that the reaper's victory would be the realization of the cycle. Cycles, as we understand (prothean IV tell us that and there is no reason why we should'nt trust, other things are said by the godchild), works really in a similar way: reapers start to move on regular basis, activated by someone (an entity? god? another ancient civilization?) when the advancement are enough to endanger the galaxy survival , they arrive, harvest/destroy the advanced civilization (both organic and syntetic), preserve the possibility for new races to evolve and make things right. 

Third: A big part in mass effect 3 is not about gray areas of choice but about different point of view, different choices to obtain the same goal. All the Shepard versus TIM confrontation, even the confrontation with the speaking reaper on rannoch, are like that, in a more mature way than they were presented in ME1 when we faced Saren, who until the last second was pure evil (if you played as a paragon). Tim has his reasons to believe he is right until his indoctrination is total and he has arguments (registry in the sanctuary base prove these arguments). Even the reaper sounded less scary and more logical than in the first two chapters.

Fourth: A large parte in the game was devoted in bringing empathy and acceptance of the syntetic life  in shepard (and to his player). All the scenes with IDI and the discover/choice of her humanity and more than that the way we understand how the geth/quarian conflict started, It was moving and well written. Even the fact that shepard is half syntetic is heavy underlined more than it was in ME2 proves the intention of the writers. 

SO

Reapers are just tools and they exist for a good reason that is preserving the galaxy from annihilation that is always portraited as an inevitable fight between organics and syntetics. The method used by them works, and could work even against shepard and his mighty fleet. The crucible shows that this method is not enough anymore. We can stay in the cycle being forced to act as the new harbinger one day to save the galaxy from total annihilation by wiping all the people out. We can destroy all by wiping all the synthetic that would just delay the end of the galaxy without the reapers jolly to come to save it for the future species or we can do something total different. 

Shepard is half human and half synthetic we can shepardize the galaxy making possible to create hybrids. Not new reaper, not losing their individuality but making all the races able to empathize with the syntetic life forms. When we see Joker and IDA together coming out from a crashed normandy they can actually have a future together not just a platonic one. They now are able to share their life. Procreate. That is the only way to cross the line that separes two forces that will become enemies. There are no more creators and created and not by uniforming them all. Organics in ME3 are able to share their DNA, they mix. Sure the mass relays are gone but that doesn't mean all the knowledge of these civilizations are gone. 

And this can only be made by an ultimate sacrifice.

BUT

This doesn't mean that the story was well narrated. To be able to enjoy this kind of ending you should come trought the understanding that there is no way that the fight between synthetics and organics can be avoided, the peace between Quarian and geth convinces you instead that a future of peace is possible, not just possibile but a match made in heaven. They should have used the Aesop scorpion and turtle story bringing to the death the quarian or the geth. 

Also

Even with the largest fleet available reapers are not deafetable. We try to forget this as we move along during the story arc, we hope that this mythological crucible will win this war  and we start to believe that is possible but nobody believed shepard even facing evidence in the first two chapters. So winning in the standard way is not an option. Also here the tone of the all ME3 scene is different, we keep promising future instead of preparing ourself for this sacrifice. In this we receive no help from the comrades, made maybe an ecception for Garrus and Liara who actually say goodbye and prepare you to death.

Also all the LI's interaction seems to convince you that you are fighting to save your future with the LI, instead of preparing you. 

It could be a perfect and fullfilling ending but the way the game set your expectations is wrong, and discourage you to accept it as it is. 

[Daedrus_0837]

Why Synthesis is a bad ending:

You gave in and didn't destroy the ****ing Reapers like you've been trying to do for 3 games.
The Star Kid convinced you otherwise.

(I'm a proponent of the Indoctrination theory)

[Bosco2196]

Indoctrination theory destroy ending master race.

[The Angry One]

It is a Reaper victory. You "win" by making everybody like them.
Reapers kill organics.
They have no reason to kill them in synthesis because THEY ARE REAPERS.
Reapers do not kill Reapers.

Modifié par The Angry One, 15 mars 2012 - 05:16 .

[Rostand82]

reapers have their reasons, otherwise reapers are just a bunch of flyng machines that eat people

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

It's the worst ending because it makes even less sense than the others. After three games of wanting to beat the Reapers, you suddenly decide to merge organic and synthetic life? It's the most, random, ridiculous, impossible nonsense you could think of.

[Rostand82]

But there is no synthetic life who survived past cycles so the reapers end them too every cycle.

(i love the indoctrination theory)

[Avissel]

To me the synthesis ending was a lot like the option to re-write the geth heretics.

As many of the companions will express when on that mission, "Re-writeing them is the same as death. You are killing what makes them, them."

[anlk92]

You practically did what Saren was trying to achieve in the first game and Saren shot himself in the head because of how stupid his ideas were.

[Rostand82]

there is no demonstration that melting syntethic and organic changes you. Your cyborg-shepard proves you that you can keep being yourself. Joker shows affection to IDA, even if he has this new hippy dna.

[Tallestra]

It is not the best ending and there are already plenty of topics with detailed discussion about it.

If somebody decides that for world peace all of us should be made atheists and using magic wand make it so, will you be happy?

[Turkeysock]

The cake is a lie!

[Rostand82]

Saren spoke about it but he ended in the same (if you went all paragon) the same way as Tim does. But Tim practically wants to become a reaper, Saren wants to serve them. Both of them are indoctrinated, you aren't.

[Alessar1288]

Let me change the order of how natural evolution and biology works. Trust me everybody is going to love this and nothing will change whatsoever.

[Bosco2196]

The Angry One wrote...

It is a Reaper victory. You "win" by making everybody like them.
Reapers kill organics.
They have no reason to kill them in synthesis because THEY ARE REAPERS.
Reapers do not kill Reapers.

Shepard: I must destroy the Reapers!
Catalyst: No Shepard... YOU ARE THE REAPERS!

And then Shepard was the Reapers.

[Evil_medved]

Synergy is what Saren wanted. If thats what you want go back to ME1, and get critical mission failure.

[The Angry One]

Rostand82 wrote...
Both of them are indoctrinated, you aren't.

Or so you think.

[Archereon]

1. The indoctrination theory should be assumed wrong until proven correct.

2. In that case, Control is the best, since the in the more optimistic interpretations, it's the only one that allows the mass relays to be rebuilt.

All three endings imply that the entire galaxy is ****ed in their own way (not even counting indoctrination theory);

Control: !Reaper Shep comes to the same conclusions as the Catalyst and resumes the cycle.

Synthesis: It's basically End Of Evangelion with green space magic instead of tang.

Destroy: All life in the galaxy is now ****ed, plus you committed genocide against the geth, and probably f'd the quarians if they were alive.


Control is just the one which doesn't forcibly change all life in the galaxy and doesn't force you to commit genocide. Meaning there's hope that it could actually not be so bad.

Modifié par Archereon, 15 mars 2012 - 05:30 .

[Rostand82]

It's a matter of the problem premises. If you can't win you try to get the best ending solution. We are forced to believe that an ending that restore the initial balance of the story can be obtained so the ending sounds like a punch in the face. But if you can choose only beetwen the 3 options what would be better looking to the big picture?

[AlcyoneNoth]

I put hundreds of hours into gameplay to finally wipe the Reapers out, so that's what I did. Nothing can convince me that Destroy wasn't the best ending.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I've come to the conclusion you basically have been forced to be evil no matter what.

[Zolt51]

There is no "best" ending. Really it all depends on your moral values.

It's pretty much like the Genophage thing. Can you objectively say that one route was better than the other? It's a moral choice, and a pretty hard one.

Modifié par Zolt51, 15 mars 2012 - 05:38 .

[Alessar1288]

I don't pug one negative over the others. Control has you basically indoctrinating a species. Destroy has you wiping out all synthetics, and synthesis messes with the natural disorder of the galaxy. I just don't tend to think destroy is any bleaker than the other two. The turians were able to reverse engineer the thannox cannon from whatever leftovers of sovereign, yet I'm supposed to believe that when something like this happens a group of salarians, asari, turian, human, and quarian can't come up with any temporary or permanent solutions?

[Zolt51]

[quote]PKchu wrote...
I've come to the conclusion you basically have been forced to be evil no matter what.[/quote] 
[/quote] 

OK, what exactly do you find "evil" about the "Control" ending, please? It's not my favorite choice but it's the least morally "risky" option. Also did you mind the choice on Tuchanka? Cos both options were pretty evil too.

Modifié par Zolt51, 15 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[The Angry One]

Bosco2196 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

It is a Reaper victory. You "win" by making everybody like them.
Reapers kill organics.
They have no reason to kill them in synthesis because THEY ARE REAPERS.
Reapers do not kill Reapers.

Shepard: I must destroy the Reapers!
Catalyst: No Shepard... YOU ARE THE REAPERS!

And then Shepard was the Reapers.

If someone had told me this would be an ME3 ending a few weeks ago I would've slapped them silly for such obvious and stupid lies.