52 réponses à ce sujet

[Blayzereborn]

Think of it this way: companies watch each other all the time. They see what works and what doesn't for their rivals.

The industry as a whole stands to learn a few lessons from this.

[Amagoi]

At least we know that they aren't sneaky 'geniuses' pulling a PR stunt. They really did think that idea was good. It's just amazing they made such a completely idiotic decision when most of the game was quite good.

Lowers the chances of the Truth being planned and all that, but it's possible they can still fix it. Or stick to their stupid idea, and prove that they don't care what fans say or want, and lose lots of money and credibility.

Modifié par Amagoi, 15 mars 2012 - 08:25 .

[saracen16]

sorentoft wrote...

So while some people are going bananas in this thread because of the recent news, I am actually quite happy with it. I know some people are probably thinking "How can this monumental idiot be happy?", and to be honest it is because Bioware just dropped the ball on the endings - it is a relief to me. There has been a lot of speculation on the so-called "indoctrination theory" on the boards, but many seem to miss the more grim underlying message if that happens to be true: We would lack the actual ending in the final product. Or rather Bioware probably purposely cut the ending to sell it as DLC, knowing they would reap the profits of it.

So there you have it, I am happy that Bioware just screwed up and that there is no grand ending-dlc conspiracy, as I find such totally unacceptable.

In any case how do you feel about cutting out the end of a game to sell it later? Is this acceptable in a story-based game such as Mass Effect or is it bad business practice? Would you buy the ending of ME3 if this turned out to be the case, and why?

I agree with you, but for BioWare, I think that it's their right to do whatever they want to their product. They've clearly stated their rationale and I believe that it is more than acceptable from a storytelling perspective: brevity is sometimes good and too much storytelling would be like filling a hairdresser's car with shampoo. There is more than one way to skin a cat: storytelling does not have to follow ONE particular person's conventions. It follows that of the writer. That's what makes authors like Ernest Hemingway, Frank Herbert, and Orson Scott Care unique. BioWare has the same right to do so, and they succeeded admirably.

[jess05]

If they try to seel me the real ending after We were already promised ..
"No A,B,C ending" "All questions answered and closure"

and Ive already purchased the game ...


The will loose a long time fan permanatly.

[sorentoft]

Peete wrote...

They have mistaken Hubris for Humility it seems, as another fan put it.

I can agree on this, but you have to remember that EA is breathing down their necks with marketing at the moment. And even then you would probably never get definite "Yes they suck" from Bioware, more like veiled "We get you" messages.

[Blayzereborn]

storytelling does not have to follow ONE particular person's conventions. It follows that of the writer.

It has to make sense. The current ending does not.

[turian_rage]

It's like the writers were just possesed when they made the end. How could so much go right so well and then it just goes pfffft. Oh, wait, INDOCTRINATION.

Holding the line.

[Blarghonk]

Should of just got it right the first time. Who were they asking for feedback when in development? I'm sure a majority of fans could of given them proper feedback. I just find myself constantly asking "are you sure these are the guys that made ME1&2?"

[TheMadBlimper]

Why do I get the feeling that EA is going to come out of this looking like heroes? ._.

[Baronesa]

...

Thank you BioWare...


From depression back to Anger!!!


Guys... you are just awesome... you just extended my mourning period!!!


DIAF

[Jawsomebob]

 Halo 2 was incomplete by the OPs account then. Bioware did not ship an incomplete product. Indoctrantion ending is true...and they chose to end the game when you discover your indoctronated....(hopefully)...

Great place to end a game. 

Who are we to decide what is a "complete" ending....the story could end before you even get back to earth if they wanted....

They will wrap up the story dont worry. 

[saracen16]

Amagoi wrote...

At least we know that they aren't sneaky 'geniuses' pulling a PR stunt. They really did think that idea was good. It's just amazing they made such a completely idiotic decision when most of the game was quite good.

Lowers the chances of the Truth being planned and all that, but it's possible they can still fix it. Or stick to their stupid idea, like stupid people tend to do, and lose lots of money and credibility.

Yeah... damn them for sticking to their own freedom of artistic expression even though you, a non-owner of BioWare, didn't like it. Damn the fact that they own the game and all shares and rights to the game. Damn those college graduate writers who actually have the education and experience to pull off a conclusion that lasts throughout the entire game. Damn them for not bending over to people who didn't even write the story of Mass Effect or were involved in the creation process.

Damn them indeed.

[sorentoft]

Blarghonk wrote...

Should of just got it right the first time. Who were they asking for feedback when in development? I'm sure a majority of fans could of given them proper feedback. I just find myself constantly asking "are you sure these are the guys that made ME1&2?"

That's another good question, did they let testers test the ending? I could imagine why not.

[mupp3tz]

The indoctrination theory was brilliant in trying to fill in the gaps, but i did tire of always receiving the "But, is that REALLY what happened. HOW COULD YOU BELIEVE IT'S BAD WRITING??!" and then showing me (supposedly) clear evidence.

If anything, this gives me hope. Bioware really, royally screwed up on this one. It doesn't mean we have to give up the fight. We can still push for post-ending content, as the argument still stands: they need to fix this ****storm, and no amount of squad, N7, and weapon DLC's will make me ever give them another dollar until then.

[Thornne]

Well, it is a relief in a way to have that question about the ending answered at least. Would have been nice for the to just SAY that a couple of days ago.

But I can see why they wouldn't want to cop to it. The chance that there was some wonderful surprise DLC ending waiting in the wings, or some cleverness to it we just couldn't figure out, was generating alot more buzz then just 'it was just a weak ending.'

Now people will finish the game, have their WTF?! moment, google, and find out that it's all meant to be incomplete, vague, and confusing on purpose.

[sorentoft]

Baronesa wrote...

...

Thank you BioWare...


From depression back to Anger!!!


Guys... you are just awesome... you just extended my mourning period!!!


DIAF

/hug

[SLPr0]

Story is over. There is no more story. If there was a surfeit of story, we would be in the position most directly opposite to that scenario.

Its done. There is no indoctrination theory. There is no post ending DLC. Its over. Its all ****ing over.

Drill it through your skull and embrace it cause its the cold, gritty, unpleasant reality.

You can sit here for the next year grabbing on to whatever you want to grab on to to believe its not over...but its over, alright? The END WAS THE END.

[sorentoft]

Jawsomebob wrote...

 Halo 2 was incomplete by the OPs account then. Bioware did not ship an incomplete product. Indoctrantion ending is true...and they chose to end the game when you discover your indoctronated....(hopefully)...

Great place to end a game. 

Who are we to decide what is a "complete" ending....the story could end before you even get back to earth if they wanted....

They will wrap up the story dont worry. 

I never played Halo, I have never been much for shooters. Mass Effect is an exception for me.

Personally I think the third installment of a trilogy is incomplete if it has no ending. It might just be me though.

[Caz Neerg]

SLPr0 wrote...

Story is over. There is no more story. If there was a surfeit of story, we would be in the position most directly opposite to that scenario.

Its done. There is no indoctrination theory. There is no post ending DLC. Its over. Its all ****ing over.

Drill it through your skull and embrace it cause its the cold, gritty, unpleasant reality.

You can sit here for the next year grabbing on to whatever you want to grab on to to believe its not over...but its over, alright? The END WAS THE END.

The end is only the end if BioWare wants it to be the beginning of their end as a brand.  The smart business decision is to fix the mess they made.  No guarantee they will be smart, but it could happen.

[Daxreiki]

Umm that clip of the storyboard only showed the very last bit with the kid, nothing really to do with TIM and Anderson.. the indoctrination theory is still up for grabs.

[Zofiya]

I'm pretty happy that is was clearly a massive miscalculation on their part, because frankly, the idea that they were deliberately withholding a vital part of the game for later release seemed like a bad business decision.

It's also a lot easier to apologise for a simple mistake than it is to apologise for trying to manipulate someone.

I'm still not happy that they made the mistake in the first place, because I don't see how everyone involved in the development could have looked at the ending on gone, "yeah, that makes sense, let's go with that", or failed to anticipate player response. (They anticipated us going, "WTF?", but they expected us to be, "WTF? THAT WAS AWESOME! DO IT AGAIN!", a la Jenkins.) I kind of feel like the money they spent making the live-action trailer could have been spent on beta-testing, the way Valve does (e.g., Portal, a game which depends much more on psychological responses than Mass Effect). I feel like the whole dev team must be completely out of touch with their consumer base.

[Nogthwai]

This is Mass effect for me, I don't care if the DLC cost money or not. I play this to relax, enjoy and generally have a good time. I'm not happy that they screwed up and I'd rather have a "good" (i.e. no Deus ex Machina) ending. I don't really care if they charge me for it or not; hell it has been five years.

[sorentoft]

Thornne wrote...

Well, it is a relief in a way to have that question about the ending answered at least. Would have been nice for the to just SAY that a couple of days ago.

But I can see why they wouldn't want to cop to it. The chance that there was some wonderful surprise DLC ending waiting in the wings, or some cleverness to it we just couldn't figure out, was generating alot more buzz then just 'it was just a weak ending.'

Now people will finish the game, have their WTF?! moment, google, and find out that it's all meant to be incomplete, vague, and confusing on purpose.

I agree, saying it would have been a very reasonable thing to say, but honestly I do not think Bioware was prepared for this reaction.

[Rafe34]

fish of doom wrote...

Morrigan Disapproves -12

Morrigan pretty much only approves if you set puppies on fire, so that really doesn't mean much.

[Sevorast]

If they just dropped the ball they should want to make it right with the fans, doesn't seem that way to me.

Seems more like they actually think it is a good ending, when in reality it is the worst possible kind of ending: the kind that invalidates the whole story that came before it.